Scout Faces Dealer Lawsuits; SAIC-GM Shows EREV-PHEV Powertrain - Autoline Daily 3922

[@schtinerbock4570]

I’ll never buy vehicles from dealers again. Such a horrible experience.

[@nerdbikes3841]

Car dealers: “WE HATE EVs! Our customers don’t want EVs!” Also car dealers: “YOU CAN T SELL EVS WITHOUT US!”

[@ryanwalters6184]

Stealerships want their cut

[@EVDroid]

We need more EVs can’t keep them on the lots tbh

[@gmv0553]

Our local Chevy dealership loves selling EVs!

[@lchanceiv]

The scouts look amazing.

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

VW has made a good deal. Now BUY BUY BUY!

[@OBC-radio]

It does now, but unfortunately it will look "old" before you can even buy one....

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

@@OBC-radio Why? Do they not sell them?

[@hwirtwirt4500]

@@OBC-radio It's a modern interpretation of classic model, you either don't know the history or don't get it.

[@peteregan3862]

John, you are the journalist putting the most focus on EREVs - rightly so. I don't think most journalists understand what is different about a system with no mechanical linkage between the ICE motor and wheels.

[@thedownwardmachine]

Car dealers: "We can't sell EVs! We hate EVs! No one wants EVs!" Also car dealers: "You can only sell this EV that everyone wants through us!"

[@omelborpon3159]

Yeah, walk into a dealer to buy an EV and they immediately try to sell you an ICE car. If Chinese car companies come to the US with direct sales, it will be lights out for domestic car dealers. The double kiss of death: decent cheap cars and not having to deal with ash hole car salesmen.

[@DeadAir21]

Dealers are more worried about what could happen in the future. While EV’s aren’t ready for prime time yet, they fear that once they become more widely accepted car companies are going follow the independent company model and kill their business completely.

[@Ianmundo]

Those Scout vehicles look fantastic, cheaper than Rivian and a great range extender option. The last thing anyone should want is dealers adding markups and overcharging for servicing. Those dealer associations are going to lobby the politicians as always

[@ant1finox111]

Don't believe the pricing, they'll come out much closer to $100k.

[@michaeloreilly657]

Dealers used to be Mom and Pop run when the legislation introduced. Not any more. They're massive multiple franchise corporations.

[@stargazer3828]

The dealer model no longer works in today's world of "click and buy" economics! There was a time I trusted dealership service shops to work on my car, but lately they hire young college grads who unless the computer connected to the OBD port tells them exactly what is wrong they have no clue how to diagnose an engine problem. My Dad could tell you exactly what was wrong with an engine just by how it idled or the fumes coming out of the exhaust. Consumers want choice and not all want to go through dealerships! The dealer lobbyist have gotten to big and too powerful for their own good!

[@Michael-pi8ps]

That’s because dealers want to pay as little as possible.

[@bobbbobb4663]

And exactly how much choice do you have at Tesla only service centers?

[@ethanwelner1230]

Dealers haven't "worked" in 75 years. They're a worthless extractive middle man with no real purpose in the economy or market.

[@okcmoparguy724]

Industry has done a poor job over the last 25yrs of educating the newer generation of technicians. They're taught on a powerpoint how many of subsystems function instead of a live teardown to see exactly how voltage rectification in an alternator, AC swash plate or even a simple starter bendix works. Without this understanding they've simply become parts changers. This problem is many times worse on any electrical or electronic component. Your dad worked in an era where most vehicle components were routinely rebuilt. Tech's could use the scope on the Sun Diagnostic machine to determine if carb and ignition advance were "tuned" appropriately. They knew how to read a spark plug and why you might need to do this. This lead to a deep understanding of exactly how components worked and really had to use critical thinking to diagnose problems. Currently, a high percentage are lost if the scan tool doesn't provide a DTC. Too many things now are disposable commodities. Mike Jude has an interesting documentary from 2006 on the long term consequences of poor education. Sadly, the movie was meant to be a comedy but seems to be full of truths.

[@santiagohills3997]

Most of the engine problems your dad diagnosed are corrected by the computer adjusting the mixture or timing, and when it fails the reason is almost always a bad sensor. Hence the code reader. Your dad was under the hood of his car every 10,000 miles or less, adjusting parts that modern cars don’t even have.

[@ChitFromChinola]

Scout is cool. I’m glad it’s not Chinese. Breaking it out as a separate brand and going direct are both smart ideas. Hope it succeeds.

[@ethanwelner1230]

That scout looks really nice, assuming it ever releases.

[@russh6414]

You can definitely see the Riven influence in The uni-body Scout. I like it!

[@12345682900]

Yep! I agree..... I hope everything comes to fruition.

[@SpookyEng1]

VAG will screw it up

[@Michael-pi8ps]

It will definitely release. It’s backed by Volkswagen and they’ve come to far to stop now

[@junehanzawa5165]

By the time it sells, full EV trucks will be getting 500 miles of range. The Chevy Volt proved that extenders is something very few people want. What people want is never having to go to a gas station, not an ICE truck disguised as an EV with even more parts than pure ICE to go wrong. And ICE vehicles have around 30,000 parts versus less than a 1,000 on a pure EV.

[@Carguytct]

Gm is always chasing it's tail. Sometimes they circle left. Sometimes they circle right.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

Which direction did they circle designing the C8 ZR1?

[@GlitterGuru]

They’re their own worst enemy

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

“snaking” around? 😂

[@TheLetsboogiedown]

Dealers make the experience and industry so dysfunctional

[@DouglasLippi]

2019 Volt owner here. Would LOVE a refresh.

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

GM hates you!❤

[@georgepelton5645]

I traded my Volt for a Model 3 back in 2018. It was an upgrade in every respect, except hatchback versatility. Model 3 sells new today for much less than the Volt cost in 2011 dollars. Used Model 3, with $4000 instant tax credit, are the deal of the century, IMO.

[@MrCarGuy]

​@@georgepelton5645 Model 3 should've had a hatch originally

[@santiagohills3997]

I was at the 2018 LA auto show when Rivian did its reveal, and I said to myself “that looks like an International Travelall, or maybe a 4 door Scout, but with ugly headlights.”

[@danclary6609]

Today's technology three years from now

[@firefox39693]

If I could afford it, and I was in the market for a truck, I'd only consider the electric version of the Scout. From a business perspective, I think it's smart the company decided to put a range extender in as an option for people who are convinced EVs don't have enough range, or worry about where to charge.

[@simson4t]

The scout is awesome but I didn't see any cupholders

[@12345682900]

The center armrest slides back to expose cupholders and a tray.

[@lawrencefranck9417]

Old school

[@lowtech_1]

Old days you just held your Beer in one hand, burger in the other. And steered with your knee.😂.

[@PD55_]

Dealers, unions have just become obstacles to progress, they want to maintain status quo forever regardless of what consumers want and need. This is symptomatic of modern industries that have been captured by financial engineering geniuses, adding layers of management and admin that add no value to the end product but insert costs with every transaction to get a bigger slice of the working buyer's pie. Dealers monopoly stranglehold needs to go to the Supreme Court. Meanwhile, after decades of import tariffs, Japanese cars even made in America still beat legacy automakers for quality and customer satisfaction. GM, Ford have learned nothing and deserve to disappear.

[@edwarddejong8025]

scout design looks great.

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

Scout: Interesting features on an imaginary EV(sorta). My revivifier would have made EVen more ridiculous claims…😂

[@frankcoffey]

Go after the lithium! Even if a better battery goes into production that doesn't need lithium we know the lithium chemistry works and have more than a decade of data to back it up.

[@anydaynow01]

Yep exactly there will be a use case for Li in batteries for quite some time. Heck, we are still using lead acid in a lot of applications since it has it's positives also (dad joke intended 😅).

[@frankcoffey]

@@anydaynow01 We also recycle lead batteries at over 90% so we don't have lead mines all over. We can do the same with the new types.

[@ethanwelner1230]

@@frankcoffey Lead mines have a history of leaving behind superfund sites and poisoning millions. We don't have many of them in the mainland US anymore because we offshored it, not because we recycle car batteries. Car batteries make up like 0% of lead demand and despite being hugely toxic lead mines are still _less_ toxic than lithium.

[@ethanwelner1230]

Car batteries are like 0% of lead use globally and the US didn't stop using lead it just offshored the mines so we didn't have to deal with the environmental devastation.

[@frankcoffey]

@@ethanwelner1230 I just looked it up "85-90% of all lead produced is used in car batteries" Recycling has gone on for so long some of the lead in a new battery might have been mined in the 1950s.

[@vegansoy]

Is this older guy the regular host’s dad? They speak very similarly.

[@stefanweilhartner4415]

yes

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

Voices are hereditary. Who knew?❤

[@donedwards6414]

Always enjoy hearing that distinctive voice and inflections.

[@reedswain5759]

Even though you showed the bench seat you failed to mention it! That's pretty appealing.

[@urbanstrencan]

Scout did great job , can't wait to see their pick-up on the road

[@EverydayRoadster]

Emergency breaking works extremely well, even in cases of a slight bended road with vehicles parked on the side.

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

brAking!! For Frunk’s Sake!🎉

[@Not_An_Alien]

They look like Rivians.

[@anthonygray333]

Off dude roading! Love it.

[@Dobbs6651]

Getting old is confusing. Ask Joe!

[@hwirtwirt4500]

@@Dobbs6651 Or the guy that's fascinated by Arnold Palmer's junk.

[@mike_w-tw6jd]

​@@Dobbs6651"They're eating the dogs"

[@georgepelton5645]

It looked like they were driving on a road to me. It didn't even look like a "4WD Only" road. Do they think anything without pavement isn't a road?

[@2cartalkers]

That Scout will hit the market when oinkers take wing.

[@briancorreia2923]

“Heavy off dude roading.” That’s hilarious.

[@skyak4493]

They look more like the modern Bronco and Rivian models than any old Scout.

[@scottvickery2057]

I like the Scout...smart to offer a gas range extender

[@johnreese3762]

Good one John, thanks!

[@wescam2958]

With respect to Scout two years is a long time. Don't expect to see into time that far, reliably.

[@pixelfairy]

I understand the need for environmental impact studies. But a flower? They do realize litthium mining means less oil, right? We can plant flowers. Mining may not be great for the environment, but compare that to drilling.

[@betobelieveit9830]

I currently own a Chevy Volt with 296k miles and immediately reserved a Scout Terra when I saw it.

[@brianmurray2687]

Hands down the best auto industry podcast on you tube. Well done guys.

[@rwdplz1]

Nobody's crying over dealers after their antics for the past few years.

[@stevennelson7518]

We need affordable EV Trucks.

[@frankcoffey]

Good question, since VW has issues selling their existing brands of cars and 200 billion in debt. What makes them think they can fund a startup?

[@Pernection]

VW is very dubious. The Scout brand idea is too little, too late. Rivian proved that.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

It's already funded and the prototypes have received broad acceptance by off road fans and the automotive press.

[@dnzgnhz]

Why video is not available on x

[@anydaynow01]

Now they just need to mandate a law that prohibits the sale of driving data so our insurance rates don't go through the roof every time AEB or some other autonomous driver aid activates.

[@omelborpon3159]

GM's rush to build hybrids reminds me of the joke about a company that was developing an improved buggy whip, when Ford was selling the Model A.

[@bobbbobb4663]

Or the prison bound CEO who laughed at BYD: “Have you seen their car?”

[@skyak4493]

The Volt was a fantastic car but it was expensive to make. This new update looks excellent! I hope there is a US version in the near future. BEVs still suck for long trips and anywhere snow falls.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

GM is building what the market demands, you remind me of a person that knows nothing about business.

[@kennethprocak5176]

You heard of SAIC GM. And SAIC VW. Where do you think the things are developed and produced. Chinese manufacturing is a decade ahead of the legacy world brands now. They have become dependent on Chinese companies to stay in business and modern electric tech. Range extenders hybrids are 1500-2000km for a 60 litre fuel tank, on sale on the roads, not still to come. The lower figures is with highway speeds, the higher with mixed urban use.

[@Harrythehun]

Wonder how VW will drop the ball on the Scouts.

[@danharold3087]

With 3 years to change their mind chances are good they will.

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

EVery way..

[@misreb1]

What also matters for AAB is the frequency of phantom or false breaking. My golf once decided to slam the breaks in a street because of a car parked on the side. Luckily the car behind reacted in time but I bet the driver wet himself as I did...

[@2cartalkers]

Yes, Toyota owners (Lexus owner here) keep their cars longer. Ours is 13 model years old.

[@GlitterGuru]

There’s 0 reason for dealers to exist. No one needs to buy a car the same day, and if they do it can come from a stock warehouse just like anything else. Not to mention all the land they’re taking up in precious areas. Buy it online to your exact spec, have it delivered in a few days - that’s what people want.

[@nickayivor8432]

Enjoy your weekend with all your family around you,John McElroy,Autoline Network 👍 From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 18:07pm Good Evening

[@stefanweilhartner4415]

not sure if these are renderings or real design prototypes but that Scout cars look really good. unusually good for volkswagen.

[@FrunkensteinVonZipperneck]

designed in Ann Arbor, not Volfsburg… 😂

[@HolmesProspecting]

I love me some heavy off-dude roading.

[@andybak7575]

Does the Scout R1S have a 3rd row?

[@AlexPotvin]

"Off-dude" lol

[@davidlopezlive]

Guess I was wrong. GM might be bringing vehicles based on Volt tech sooner than I thought. 🤞

[@philliplopez8745]

The influence of the NADA needs to disappear. This is 2024 .

[@rozonoemi9374]

Hybrids are a short stop gap. By the time they seriously build BEV, GM will be out of business. How come Tesla can build EV with Good profits & GM still lose money?

[@redmundperrz7234]

Looks awesome

[@lawrencefranck9417]

I call bs on the price. They will be closer to $100k.

[@janissaryone1906]

Yada, yada, yada... I'll believe it when it actually is available for sale. I have ZERO confidence in VW. They can't even make a competitive EV for VW themselves and their CARIAD multi-billion investment has been a total loss.

[@markokrasinski8033]

In the early 80's by best friend built parallel hybrid from a Ford courier pickup cobbled together with what was available back then lead acid batts and motor from a forklift Alot of inexperienced welding and a.honda generator in the bed. No regen an on/off/coast driving style manual brakes and steering. Steep learning curve to drive alot of muscle power. Told nobody about the conversion for plates ins. etc. In a traffic stop too quick no sound curious cop turned out to be DOT officer. and that was it.

[@posatronic9262]

Not correct. The volt is always driven by the electric motor. Only at 70mph or above the gas engine adds, does not replace, power to run smoothly.

[@yorkchris10]

I see VW Group Africa is making e-tractors. Can you franchise an implement .

[@tesla_tap]

The top 20 dealer groups are billion dollar operations. That affords a lot of hard lobbing to continue to screw customers. Skip the pain and markups by dealers and buy from Tesla, Rivian or Lucid. Often takes seconds to order from the comfort of your home.

[@PhanoftheShow]

these cars will never see the light of day, VW won’t be able to finance it

[@12345682900]

Auh, no. VW, like practically every OTHER OEM has to make "adjustments" from time to time. VW will make their "adjustments" and move on. Rare? Yes. Painful? Yes. Is VW in serious jeopardy of going away for good? No.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

The factory is already built and the design is finished to the pre production prototype stage.

[@rjbiker66]

​@@hwirtwirt4500 it's not out for 2yrs. If they were pre-prod there wouldn't be a 2 yr wait

[@hwirtwirt4500]

@@rjbiker66 Production is scheduled for late 2024 as a 2025 model. The prototype is very close to production configuration. There are lead times on componentry and materials that have to be staged for just in time production. Two years is an aggressive schedule.

[@rjbiker66]

@@hwirtwirt4500 did you watch the video? Release date is 2 0 2 7.

[@chimrichalds1422]

Those scouts look nice but starting under 60k my ass, 75k by the time they deliver.

[@philliplopez8745]

The future of lithium is questionable. Investment and the associated disruptions are also questionable.

[@mikeintampa250]

Wow, same voice as John!

[@philipparana9225]

Looks like rebadged rivian.

[@bobwallace9753]

Will VW stay in business long enough to produce the Scout? Perhaps if the German government becomes their patron. But based on their ICEV sales? Not clear.

[@bobwallace9753]

Or perhaps "independent company" Scout is the model for a future VW after the ICEV VW collapses. If adequately separated, the Scout Company could add more EV models that they sell direct. And then the Scout Company could buy the VW name in the manner Chinese companies have bought Volvo and MG names.

[@fhclappen8595]

😂😂 Was waiting for the lawsuits. Like Keep and Myhindra. Lautheble greed

[@taniabanes4707]

Poor fanboys, they still have to wait a couple of years before they can say *Scout is trash, going bankrupt, Nokia… etc ). Unless… never know with them

[@arevee9429]

The Scout name is now owned by VW? Let's hope they can bring their latest retro-mobile to market faster and with more range than they did with the ID Buzz. 60K+ and a piddling range for the Buzz means it's DOE - much like the Fiat 500e. GM is rushing to come out with hybrids? A little late for that. Remember their mild hybrid from maybe 20 years ago. Malibu. 48 volts. They should have kept going with the Volt. In an SUV.

[@gmv0553]

GM is already offering hybrids in China with almost 100 miles on electric before switching to gasoline.

[@tedg1609]

Endangered flower. Eye roll.

[@davidws5439]

They have Rivians software, they look like Rivians and will take alot of Rivian sales. The money Rivian gets may NOT be worth the squeeze!

[@tetchuma]

I would have rather had a bare-bones, utilitarian 2door off-roader, instead of a stylish $60k+ EV suv. They could have even used the old body presses, and it would have been a well-needed dose of simplicity in today’s market of overpriced vehicles.

[@hwirtwirt4500]

You and at least three other people.

[@davidmenasco5743]

I think those old body presses are probably busy - ahem, tied up - helping boats stay in one place.

[@tetchuma]

@@davidmenasco5743 You’re referring to the DeLorean body presses, acting as barrier nets anchors for an Irish fish farm. The Scout body presses were purchased by ‘Speciality Scout’.

[@davidmenasco5743]

@@tetchuma Fascinating. I'd have thought after so many years, they'd be someone's boat anchors. The thought that someone is saving them for future use is somehow comforting.

[@baronvonjo1929]

Why did VW make such a special....something for Scout. Just call them VWs. Are they embarrassed to use the VW name in the US?

[@rp9674]

Hybrids, zzz

[@dontelindsey5846]

When did VW get ownership of the name Scout?

[@gmv0553]

When they bought the large truck maker Navistar a couple years ago.

[@dontelindsey5846]

@@gmv0553 thanks for the reminder. I recall them buying Navistar but not the other brands. Cheers!

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

15 year old cars most loved: Toyota. Which means Toyotas are all 15 years and older. And getting older every day. Yes, i can believe that.

[@grantboucher9342]

i am a toy fan boy

[@abelincoln3261]

American auto makers are pissed and afraid of China yet they need three years to develop and build a car.. while China can do it and do it well in six months.. Good by GM Ford Chevy etc... you had a chance you're blowing it..

[@eddieg6436]

My 1989 Toyota MR-2 5-speed, T-bar just turned 35. 😀👌🥂

[@tesla_tap]

Loved by 89 MR2 5-speed! Glad you still have yours!

[@nickayivor8432]

Drive Fly ride go Electic Miss GoElectric Please interview Miss GoElectric

[@gmv0553]

She has turned into old news now after hooking up with a boyfriend!

[@garyladyman2642]

3 years, be old and outdated by then

[@robertn2951]

Aren't dealers a sort of scam?

[@SkitterB.Unibrow]

So funny when people talk about GM in china, GM owns about 1/5th of the vehicle producing venture along with SAIC is Guangxi Automobile Group, Wuling, and 3 others. So any profits say from like that golfcart ev they make which they are so proud of that makes maybe 1000 dollars profit per vehicle, has to be split 5 ways.........after all costs... Mary is Lame

[@ryanwalters6184]

They dont make money 😂

[@stanwbaker]

@@ryanwalters6184 The Mini-EV class is basically a license to print money. Before the end of the year the millionth (since October '20) will be sold and demand keeps growing. They weren't exported because domestic demand is so high. Geely and SAIC are building them now in Vietnam, Thailand and India. 15-20% profit per unit at a price people are delighted to pay.

[@kennethprocak5176]

Most gm products are produced overseas, are the US mainly just assembly plants? So Chinese, South Korean parts, only vehicles assembled in US facilities.

[@SkitterB.Unibrow]

@@kennethprocak5176 So why arent there 115% tariffs on GM vehicles like they put on BEVs (vehicles americans seemingly don't want🤣🤣) from China? Because the Legacy OEMs are so scared of cheap reliable better than anything they can produce from america Cars, that the only way they can try and stop them, is to bribe the government to put tariffs on them. I want to buy a Chinese BEV for my gf..... the BYD Seagull for 12k is awesome. My Tesla with 428k miles is running fine, never needed any maintenance and goes 255 miles for the cost of 1 gallon of gas.... no oil changes, no brake jobs, no tuneups, changed tires 3 times (about 600bux per change, after car paid off)...(I've saved at least the cost of buying another car in savings not having an old legacy ICE vehicle).

[@gmv0553]

Mary is awarded every year for her successful leadership at GM! Sounds like you are jealous of a woman being more successful then you!

[@DericO-rz3be]

Ha Ha.... Very Musky Fantasy Talk

[@ishmamrahman877]

I am sick of ev trucks and offeoad suv

[@rogerrussell9544]

Another EV product nobody asked for or can afford.

[@davidws5439]

Unions here in the USA and elsewhere are killing auto companies. If you don't like the pay that is offered, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.😊

[@mike_w-tw6jd]

jealous much

[@gmv0553]

You sound like a Scab!

[@dpose6525]

you should change the name of the channel to EV News Only Bruh

[@nbeaudoin1]

We don’t need more irrelevant trucks and SUVs, even if they are EVs… espeically if they are EVs

[@mike_w-tw6jd]

ice pollution?

[@205rider8]

VW is dead man walking!

[@leviandhiro3596]

Dealer franchises need to go the way of the dodo 🦤

[@DeadAir21]

They won’t ever though. No politician will ever vote to get rid of them and if one ever did would just guarantee the vote for his opponent

[@ashishpatel350]

unions and dealers are the worst

[@gmv0553]

Scab! And a jealous one at that! My son earned $206,000 last year with Cadillac benefits also being a union worker in the electrical industry!

[@GSKYYT]

I wish scout get sued to oblivion for reviving the scout name just to build a piece-of-trash electric vehicle.

[@bobbbobb4663]

Tesla Headline News: Cathie dumps shares! Y/Y Auto Revenue down 7%! Leon chats with Putin to get more Russian Aluminum for the German furnace!

[@russh6414]

What, conversations with Putin? Oh LOOK, ROADSTER!

[@bobbbobb4663]

@@russh6414 Look, More tele-operated features on FlOptimus!

[@timstrobel9220]

Scout should be sold at VW dealers .. they need models like this.

[@dillonh321]

No. I don’t want to deal with car dealerships. Direct sales is better.

[@DeadAir21]

So you’re OK with dealers having all the power and potentially adding to the price? You must be a car salesman.