Honest Trailers Commentary | Joker

[@zunaidparker]

How did you not call this DARK PHOENIX??? Missed opportunity, it was right there!

[@erickmartinez5631]

Dance Dance Revolution was perfect actually.

[@bobby_naur]

Dark Phoenix would’ve been brilliant!!

[@andrewodinson3726]

Because everyone forgot it existed

[@JeannesMovieChats]

Dark Phoenix would have been PERFECT!!! I don't get the Dance Dance Revolution reference at all

[@callumnolan]

@@JeannesMovieChats He dances, dances some more and then there's a revolution? Pretty surface. DDR is an arcade game. Footloose probably fits the DDR title more.

[@acewingate6993]

Joker isn’t like other girls. He doesn’t fit in. He loves chicken nuggets and listens to vinyls. Joker hates twerking and thinks Beyoncé is overrated.

[@mHerlow]

Taylor Bold the plural of vinyl is vinyl

[@acewingate6993]

mHerlow I don’t play by the rules, because IM THE JOKER BABY

[@stevenlannister184]

Well..... she is overrated.

[@mHerlow]

I can’t help but to hear that response in Ed’s Mickey Mouse voice.

[@rickycollins7723]

@@mHerlow haha same

[@codybishop7526]

The Joker was actively trying to get help by continuing to go to therapy (until social sevices stopped). I think it was a brilliant look into how people with mental illnesses struggle to live in our society.

[@TheTrimed1]

Seriously! He was actually taking his meds. Was he taking like 14 meds. Most you would probably have to slowly ween off of maybe with a different drug and he's just dropped and stopping cold turkey. Stuff going to happen.

[@golden1324]

Cody Bishop were you aware that we live in a society?

[@aresef]

The movie suggested it was his mental illness that helped drive his violence. That’s a baseless stereotype, that mentally ill people are generally violent.

[@1986jamesa]

Over medicating yourself shouldent be needed to keep you none violent. If thats the case, commit or off yourself.

[@matthewheywood8532]

aresef ones taken off their meds and psychological help suddenly usually are

[@JohnBainbridge0]

That "damage his forehead" joke was brilliant. Perfect in every way.

[@g.rogowski2462]

"i had a brother, and he was peferct. PERFECT IN EVERY WAY!" -Rictus

[@Noztube]

Joe is trying so hard to not just say "I really didn't like this movie".

[@mtumasz]

Noztube he clearly didn’t understand the film.

[@justinriley]

@@mtumasz OR maybe he just wasn't crazy about it.

[@jimmcavoy9324]

I wish he'd just say it. He just beats around the bush and tries to shoehorn jokes in.

[@swaroop7021]

Those who didn't understand this clearly don't give a shit about other's pain.

[@swaroop7021]

Joe will surely hear a Joke soon

[@Corusame]

To me this movie was about a broken man who's trying to get by but finally snaps at the revelation of his repressed childhood memories. Society just helped nudge him in the direction he was heading. When he accepts his role at the end of the movie he's celebrated which reinforces in his mind who he is. I thought it was thought provoking and Joaquin Phoenix did a fantastic job

[@carlrood4457]

I have literally NEVER heard anyone refer to the 80's as "innocent" before.

[@zevo9314]

i dont think they were saying the 80's were innocent, but the comic book movie 80's versions were. atleast comparatively to what we got in the 2000's

[@TNTITAN]

Carl Rood I have people seem to have judged the 80s from the mid 80s where the scariest thing that could occur was Gremlins. They seem to forget the early 80s had to be unnerving with John Lennon’s murder followed shortly by Regan’s shooting.

[@ieatgremlins]

Cocaine heaven.

[@sanjayraju988]

Movies inthe 80s were.

[@artistwithouttalent]

I don't think they mean "innocent" as in G-rated, more like pre-9/11 where we operated under the notion that everything was cool and were unaware of the human capacity for violence and hatred.

[@hmetroz]

Hold up. Dan is just going to casually mention that he drove into a lake and not give a story? I want the lake story!

[@benabramowitz18]

36:36 Look at the bottom monitor, third from the right.

[@me45116]

Alan!

[@mwheeler37]

Alan!

[@steveperez4642]

Alan!

[@telectronix1368]

🏆

[@lucas33308]

Alan! (Edit)I was going to ask you wtf were you talking about until I realized those were airplane windows and then I recognized the raptor hahahaahaha

[@yondie491]

I think Lon is focused *WAY* too much on wanting a clear answer to the reason of Joker's mental breakdown. To me, that's a huge portion of the entire POINT of the movie. Joker is the anti-Crash.

[@fangal12]

Who is Ron?

[@yondie491]

Lol... fixed "Lon" Not to blame autocorrect, but...

[@BonesWasTaken11]

Yeah you wouldn't get someone like joker by just one terrible thing happening to him.. that's the point of the movie.

[@yondie491]

@@BonesWasTaken11 Exactly! I kept wanting to shout "THAT'S THE POINT!" whenever Lon repeated that complaint.

[@demcra3485]

Best scene to show his mental breakdown is when he finds out he was adopted and he's been living a lie his entire life

[@derrickmarais]

I love it when Spencer goes all real world critical on Batman and Dan turns into a 10 year old defending his hero.

[@Betta66]

"The movie never pinpoints the one thing that makes him do Joker stuff" I thought that was the point.

[@acewingate6993]

HES THA JOKER BABY

[@jasongeorgis3483]

You're right that the point of the movie was the combination of bad events creating the Joker. However, to Lon's point, by not honing in on one specific reason it definitely muddles the theme and message of the movie.

[@Betta66]

@@jasongeorgis3483 Sometimes it's not just one thing that motivates violence.

[@Betta66]

@@Andrew-sc6dq Because someone thought it'd be a cool thing to have, I guess.

[@BonesWasTaken11]

@@jasongeorgis3483 but isn't that the message? A lot of people experience a terrible event in their lives, that on it's own won't make you a killer. But having a crazy amount of terrible things happening to you without a single break might break you.

[@lmac2017]

To me it feels like the whole point of the movie is that there's no specific way to make a psychopath. There are so many contributing factors and people are multi-faceted. Arthur's story is pushed along by childhood trauma, bullies, cutting social services, betrayal, and all sorts of other things. We can't just fault one group of people and say it's all their fault. It takes a village to raise a child and it takes one to screw them up too.

[@richardsantanna5398]

Joaquin's Joker is not a psychopath.

[@alexmiranda2439]

Spencer’s take on this movie is the best

[@jamonfisk3631]

Yea he gets it the most. Still surprised he didn’t realize Joker was actually going on Murray to kill himself but then decided halfway thru to kill Murray but other than that, spencer gets it way more than the other three. Dans afraid of copycats(rightfully so). Joe thinks it isn’t really a Joker movie(I mean yea. I agree). Lon is just way off base lol.

[@aztn19]

I figured Joe’s take on it was the best, in that he didn’t go full fan-boy on the movie. He was the most critical of Joker to the point where I’m not sure that he even liked it, or just didn’t like it the way the others loved it.

[@Nope2022HugeTheWarningFan]

@@jamonfisk3631 Isn't Lon always off base?

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

No doubt, Joker had Oscar-worthy performance.

[@fckyoudidntask642]

Yup

[@justinriley]

The acting was wonderful. I had issues with the film, but Joaquin Phoenix makes it worth watching.

[@kapten-awesome]

yes! spencer finally said "what's up partypeople" , i have been waiting for so it long :D

[@TrekBeatTK]

Joker: he’s ribbed for your displeasure

[@PavelKrypto]

Spencer is the voice of reason here!

[@YukihyoShiraki]

I honestly think that the riot was going to happen eventually anyway, its just that the joker became the catalyst for it. It reminds me of the ending to The Invisible Man. Ps, about your 'timeline issue' in pretty sure theres more than one joker canonically. Pss i dont think anyone is the way they are because of one specific point in their history. Lives are a culmination of circumstances and events.

[@matthewheywood8532]

Exactly they set up the city was on the brink

[@the_quadracorn]

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that this film couldn't pinpoint what it wanted to say. The fact that there's no specific, single cause for Arthur to do Joker stuff illustrates that a little adds up to a lot, with the final straw being Arthur finding out about his mother being insane and lying to him all his life.

[@vladdiaconescu5665]

“If I would have a backstory, I would prefer it to be multiple choice”-there are a million explanations for this mlvie, that s the beauty. At least in my opinon

[@geennaagaming9857]

Today 12 years ago a great joker died, and we are here to watch another!

[@ΦιλήμωνΓαλογαύρος]

2008 : Heath Ledger 's Joker.

[@mckenan3578]

I seem to always disagree fundamentally with “how Joe would have done it”

[@JeannesMovieChats]

Yeah... I think the rebuttal against turning it into a comedy like Thor Ragnarok just highlighted how little he actually thinks through his points.

[@leyy121]

Take a shot every time someone says "Joker stuff"

[@ken1sugar]

I did it and after that I saw naked Zazie Beetz in my bedroom.

[@Stanislaw365]

You want us to die man?

[@Dock76]

The movie shows how aspects of society such as classism and lack of mental health services can lead to someone spiraling out of control. The movie makes it a multi faceted issue because it often is.

[@annaanna6411]

thank you!!! I was about to write the same thing.

[@mathewkolakwsk]

Agree 100% that this movie works because it isn’t a comedy - rather a drama/tragedy. The fact that the movie is complex and open to different interpretations is refreshing and assumes the audience can handle heavy themes and thoughts. Last thing: imagine a tragic take on Bane (from the comics) or other darker villains... not every movie has to be a masterpiece, just interesting enough to make you think some or challenge you to see things from a different/unique perspective.

[@benabramowitz18]

So this movie managed to crash the Venice Film Festival by winning the Golden Lion as a comic-book movie, crash the box-office with $1 billion as a grim R-rated character drama, and crash Halloween parties as the scariest movie clown since Pennywise. Now it's looking to crash the Oscar race against a bunch of other more deserving Best Picture nominees, with 11 total nominations. But it's probably not going to win, because no movie that was nominated for Best Picture and got its own Honest Trailer ever since Honest Trailers started has ever won! So that should kill this movie's chances, right?

[@earnthis1]

The really funny part is; If this wasn't a comic book movie about a beloved product, no one would care about it. You know that is true.

[@felicehappy]

Joseph Davidson I think a lot of people who are not interested in comic books went to see it for Joaquim Phoenix. Personally Phoenix and De Niro being in the film were my main reasons to see it. Some of my favourite films are super hero ones but I find there are too many coming out now and their quality is not good (well I don’t like them).

[@drewmur]

Most of Batmans villains are upper class also. Most of his rogues gallery are doctors, inherited wealth and a lawyer. The thugs may be lower class, but Penguin, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Hugo Strange, Two-Face, Harley Quinn, Black Mask and others are all wealthy and or well educated.

[@psinno]

The real awkward laugh is the dwarf trying to open the door.

[@7superdaimajin]

In the theater I was at, nobody laughed at that scene.

[@psinno]

@@7superdaimajin Saw the film 3 times in the cinema. People laughed each time.

[@kimurico1]

The greatest comic relief after the kill. I'm glad they dared do that joke. It's perfect.

[@toddhollen]

I don't know why, but I really want a Diet Coke now.

[@Selfproclaimed]

toddhollen I was thinking the same thing

[@SupervoidCinema]

''I Heard You Paint Faces'' was a genius line.

[@Heroasaurus]

I would like to challenge Joe to a duel over his commentary. Sincerely, Internet dude

[@joshuaelliot1]

Lon is too focused on needing one big turning point. This movie is about the small turns that get him there. The ones that he could effect and the ones he couldn't.

[@ieatgremlins]

Plus, he is ill and without any assistance ... that’s honestly all you need as a turning point.

[@JohnBainbridge0]

I agree. It was a "death by 1000 paper-cuts" kind of thing.

[@33shin33]

You are absolutely correct in my opinion but I would rather say "big turns that get him there". Way to go have a nice day Josh

[@Sokka2Me]

And like in life, it's the little things that build up and make the most damage as opposed to one big thing.

[@docnightfall]

I would argue that there is no actual turning point. He was already on the straight and narrow path to becoming a danger to society from the very start. We the audience know what other iterations of the Joker have represented, and know full well from our experience in the real world what chaos and destruction and human suffering such individuals can wreak. Because of this precognizance, we the audience DESIRE for there to be a turning point. We want Arthur to be a redeemable figure. We want Gotham to be saved. This is the desire that maintains the level of tension throughout the film. The film teases us constantly with possible turning points, then denies us with finality in the end. But it really is only at the end that we are able to grasp the full picture, and we see what fools we were to have held out any hope for his redemption. It's made pretty clear that he is already irreparably damaged even at the start of the movie. Abuse begets abuse. Brokenness begets brokenness. Gotham already failed his mother and him even before we met the character. The only way that he could have been prevented from propagating the cycle of abuse and brokenness would have been to put him in an institution, or in a jail cell, or in a coffin. He was in absolutely no position to have a clear moral understanding of what he was doing. The law recognizes insanity as a defense against criminal liability, but that doesn't mean that dangerous lunatics are allowed to walk free. No, they're supposed to be sequestered from the rest of society in appropriate high-security institutions. Gotham continued to fail him as the movie progressed. The social worker saw the red flags and didn't bother to report anything to the authorities. His coworker handed a gun to an obviously deranged person. His employer learned about him bringing a gun to a gig at a pediatric ward, and said nothing. His neighbor caught him trespassing in her apartment but kept silent. The police would have caught him sooner if any of these people had done their civic duty and said something. The movie was never an examination of the morality of Arthur's actions-- it was an examination of the immorality of Gotham's inaction and apathy.

[@angelxxsin]

Jesus, the theme is “lack of empathy kills”. It’s really not that complicated.

[@ieatgremlins]

Larissa Campo exactly, you are shown familial, cultural, societal and governmental lack of empathy, it isn’t that esoteric.

[@agusti92]

yeah, I got that just by seeing the honest trailer that THEY produced!

[@camilocamacho4878]

You guys can argue when exactly he became the Joker but I truly believe he's broke on his first kill and the birth was in the bathroom

[@MaxIronsThird]

He truly embraced it with the bloody smile

[@Nope2022HugeTheWarningFan]

I think Joker was conceived during the restroom scene but not birthed until he decides to kill Murray.

[@shybyebye]

12:40 it's almost like they wanted the joker's backstory to be multiple choice, and i think that made the movie better in the end. loved the discussion and the honest trailer, though!

[@awkwardjewswag]

“How many excuses can we come up with for him to do Joker stuff?” That sums it up right there lol

[@Econtaureau]

Video starts at 0:00 :p

[@ethnofalcon]

I need a count of how many times they said "joker stuff" and also a super cut, please.

[@HeyOmarTapia]

The issue with the movie is wants us to both feel the "aww look how bad they treated him :(" but also the "lol he doesn't give a f*ck and he's so cool with his dancing, he's better without the meds or therapy, the police can't get him, he gets revenge on the guy who mocked him, the protesters love him in the end, and *maybe* he killed the girl who rejected him ;)".

[@KDHRproductions]

Finally someone in the comments that’s not spitting bs

[@papamoosey1595]

You're not supposed to celebrate The Joker. He isn't glorified. They want us to sympathize with Arthur Fleck and fear and condemn the Joker. Arthur died and Joker took his place, somewhere between the train killings and smothering his mom

[@mHerlow]

The stairs shot should’ve been “stairmaster”

[@keepperspective]

I love listening to passionate, intelligent, mostly willing to listen to nuance friends talk movies. Yay.

[@thegreyinitiate3680]

He could have been helped, and the Joker could have been avoided if people had been decent and the avenues of recovery had been maintained. They weren’t, and so the Joker was born, the ultimate punishment for the society that created him.

[@chrisstegerean9429]

In my opinion, you guys are a bit unfairly knocking how much of a Joker movie this is. It's more Joker than you think, because the film is, essentially, narrated by the Arthur we see at the end, who turns out to be a very unreliable narrator. It's up to the audience to decide for themselves how much of the film is real, or if none of it is real. Making an origin story and still maintaining that "multiple choice" ambiguity is a significant accomplishment and is very true to the Joker ethos.

[@Paddster]

How come we get a 47min long video yet Dan doesn't elaborate on his lake story...^^

[@eileen_a_b]

For real! They say all the time their lives are so boring compared to what we imagine. I think that's pretty crazy!! I am glad to see he is ok.

[@jp3813]

Perhaps his car just slid on the road and ended up on a nearby lake. It can happen to anyone.

[@papamoosey1595]

Clearly some of y'all didn't catch the Office reference (the TV show)

[@shiranuiaensland1442]

@@papamoosey1595 Why should they?

[@thesammon3]

Love your commentary, but have you considered putting a sideband compressor on your honest trailer audio? If you did that, using the commentary audio as input, the trailer audio would automatically get quiet when everyone is speaking and it would be a lot easier to understand the commentary without sacrificing the volume of the trailer when nobody is speaking.

[@Thecatdrums3]

The Camera recording the comedy club is set up in the shot following Arthur walking onto the stage. Yes, the blu-ray is very weak and has no extras that are very worthwhile. Other than some alternate takes of the Murray Franklin show, the extras all talk about the costumes, set design, cinematography & little bits about the score/ Joaquin's acting. Bradley Copper talks about how Todd Phillips pitched multiple films and this is the first. All centered around villains. I really wish there was more but the commentary that is exclusive on ITunes, is probably the most worthwhile extra. He talks about how all the marketing and the openness of the film not giving answers to questions is why it worked. He speaks very much in a tone that sounds like he understands exactly what he was doing with this movie. All the press is very wild and crazy to breakdown but from the commentary is really gets it. I personally hope he does something else but with all this money its going to happen.

[@pettespizzaparlor3245]

my takeaway from the first 14min of this episode? This movie did it's job in starting debates and discussions around the meaning of . . . . everything . . . life, mental illness, class systems, how society sucks.

[@devonbiehn6249]

The movie is a mirror to contemplate our personal contribution to societies self fulfilling prophecy of making people like joker famous From individuals to government and especially media we ALL play a role

[@Nope2022HugeTheWarningFan]

Yep. It's pretty obvious. But most won't help themselves to honesty. Not even for honest trailers.

[@devonbiehn6249]

@@Nope2022HugeTheWarningFan I think it's a blind spot for many in media in regards to Joker. These guys are literally professional projectors, so introspection doesn't cross thier mind when trying to figure out "what the creator is trying to say". They assume Todd thinks HE has something valuable to say about society and mental health, he doesn't think he does. Anyway, I love them all but Joe esspecially shows his cards here

[@DucNguyen0131]

For December, I will do a new Honest Trailers VHS vault entry on the 1988 Christmas movie "Scrooged", the so-called film that was released between "It's a Wonderful Life" and "Home Alone".

[@bluepearl_22]

Just give this man his Oscar and let's move on from this movie.

[@alejandromolinarsanchez6114]

Even if I didn´t like it as much as I did the first time I saw it, I'm happy Joker is a success in both box office and awards. Since it opens up comic book movies to new ways beyond blockbusters movies. Comic book movies, especially ones about superheroes, need to experiment and expand if they want to keep going.

[@redsands1001]

But they'll also need to stick the landing unlike glass

[@levonleban6252]

Joker doesn’t really direct his rage upwards though, he kills his mother, his former coworker, maybe zazi beats and those cops.He just kills whomever he perceives to have wronged him.

[@devilmikey00]

Yeah, it seems weird for Joe to criticize this one for the joker not taking advantage of the situation he accidentally inspired when this movie isn't really about that. It seems like that was exactly what he realized he could do at the end when he's on that police car. A kind of "oh shit, look what I've done" moment for him. I assume if they ever do make another movie it'll be about him taking advantage of this movement he accidentally inspired. This movies sort of an incomplete origin story in that respect because it didn't give a fuck about the comic books beyond using them to get this made ;p

[@williamjz17]

This commentary was great, the fact that each of them had a take made this video so interesting! Thank you!

[@benabramowitz18]

So now that we’re putting comic-book characters in prestige movies, what do you think we’re going to see next? A remake of _Platoon_ with Captain America? Or _Kramer vs. Kramer_ with Uncle Ben and Aunt May? Also, you should've made one of the alternate titles *Baby('s First Taxi) Driver.*

[@TheCNotes1]

We've been doing that since 2016, when we gave the shittiest of them an Oscar for costume design.

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

Kramer vs Kramer vs Ant-Man vs The Wasp

[@Popcultureguy3000]

Benjamin Abramowitz How about a tribute to classic Universal Horror movies with Basil Karlo’s Clayface? That would be fun.

[@jasongeorgis3483]

Casablanca except that it's about Captain America helping Peggy Carter and her husband escape Hydra-controlled Morocco.

[@zevo9314]

i would watch captain platoon

[@xancarter1927]

For the record, you guys kept harping on it, but the Joker, Canonically, usuallg averages about 20-40 years older than Batman.

[@horrorfan1415]

This is almost longer than the Dark Phoenix commentary, I love the longer trailers!

[@M0b1us_118]

Comment about what Dan said at 10:55: I believe that from the beginning, Joker was made to be an elseworld film, and is not cannon to the DCEU.

[@ΦιλήμωνΓαλογαύρος]

It is a unique film.

[@Whatacomedian_]

Thats why lon should shut up lol its just an eleseworld

[@ninthtride8174]

the biggest problem with this 'collective review' of the movie is everyone in the video seeming to agree that the movie needed to hammer down one singular message or a singular reason for Joker' s 'descent into madness', as if it's a problem that the message is vague and his 'villainy' has a multitude of causes...that's real life! life is vague and complex! it is objectively, unequivocally wrong to assert that media needs a singular clear message, and a 'muddled message' makes it inferior. maybe the SJ crew needs to just step back from their film and creative writing educations and unlearn the nonsense clacissists push on us, and enjoy things for what they are... also, that comment about preferring the lighter moments to being "buried in sadness"...that's personal preference, but i loved how crushing and depressing this movie felt. i didn't go into it expecting a comedy, and i got what i wanted. something that emotionally effected me and left me disturbed. sometimes being buried in sadness is great.

[@thats4thebirds]

The comparison to the Killing Joke really got me twisted.. The entire point is that “one bad day” is bullshit. Gordon doesn’t crack under the weight of his daughter being shot and sexually violated. Joker fails to prove his point. The ones that “one bad day” applies to, are broken people like Batman and Joker. They probably were never going to be anything but fucked up.

[@DeathnoteBB]

The thing is tho, even then it doesn’t hold up. Joker still chose to be a homicidal criminal and Batman chose to fight crime. Batman was rich, and still a kid. He could have grown up to do much worse. Joker could have easily just imploded, never ended up a murderer, and just got actual help. People are all different, and respond ti distress and trauma differently. “One bad day” makes no sense in a general perspective. Not arguing @ you btw, just the people that take the “one bad day” concept too literally and often to the point of ableism.

[@ieatgremlins]

DeathnoteBB Access to help, aka money, is the key there. I liked Joker because it showed how asphyxiating poverty can be.

[@DeathnoteBB]

Carla MSM That’s true, but that’s another thing, I hate the ableism and classism of showing how “easily” poor disabled people “go crazy”.

[@ashutosh5002]

Say, "Smelly cat, smell-ly cat. What are they feeding you?".

[@ieatgremlins]

He is passive for a reason. When you’re broke, sick, alone and at the mercy of a government that doesn’t care about you, you have no choice but to live passively. Edit: Why can’t movies just be sad, bleak and disturbing? Why do we need more moments like the gun scene, which was hilarious. This movie isn’t groundbreaking or a masterpiece but it is pretty solid and its themes are super accessible.

[@Nope2022HugeTheWarningFan]

Because they don't really want anything different than they're used to despite their railing for something different.

[@oneblood7411]

I did NOT like this movie, but I really enjoyed Joaquin Phoenix. This was a very hard one to watch, because it's watching an awesome actor give stellar performance in a movie I really didn't like watching. Either way thanks Screen Junkies you guys really helped me come back to this one, because this Honest Trailer was PRICELESS!

[@justinriley]

I admire your bravery. Saying anything negative about Joker around these parts of the internet is illegal. All jokes aside, I can kind of see your point.

[@Adrian-zd4cs]

I just posted a similar comment that started with, "I'm almost afraid to say this..." 🤣😜

[@athenajaxon2397]

Yup somehow Joaquin made the awful dialogue work

[@bryzantine1571]

I enjoyed the discussion. Like everyone's insight

[@jueshua148]

Society wouldn't accept joker as a norm, until society suffered enough to reflect joker. And when joker realized that his suffering (and ability to cause suffering) could change society as a whole, then he begins to use it it to mold his environment. He has realized that he doesn't have to improve himself to join society. He can "improve" society to join him.

[@niceprofile-k6i]

skipping through every time joe speaks improves the quality of this video immensely

[@Kyle_Noronha]

I really appreciated the discussion. It's an example of how movies should be discussed. Not with vitriol and hate. Well done fellas

[@overlordzenku7610]

Lon my dude, to me life is more complicated than A then B then C. I though the movie was far more organic for this. It can be a lot of little tragedies that add up and pull you down into the bottoms of despair, not just one big event. Just my thoughts

[@werebison]

I really liked Joker, and also really liked your HT. As for the rallying cry for a-****s kind of discussion on this movie: I work in a jail. I'm slowly starting to see iconography from this movie mix itself in with the Heath Ledger Joker, Scarface, Tupac and similar stuff that winds up in jail art. I doubt that the intention of this movie was to appeal to that crowd, but in some ways it does, that can't really be denied. Personally, I find it somewhat ironic since, to me, the movie takes a much more sympathetic view of root causes of criminality than I do. I do enjoy the journey though the concept of society failing an individual and then suffering the consequences, though.

[@MayorOfEarth79]

Same thing happens all the time. Just see Fight Club.

[@jp3813]

21:13 Hideo Kojima back in 2001 warned us about widespread internet misinformation in Metal Gear Solid 2.

[@HerschelKrustofski]

Wait, so is Joe saying he doesn’t like Grave of the Fireflies?

[@mikehiebert6227]

Yeah... What I took away from that line was that Joe didn't/wasn't willing to give this movie the emotional leap of faith that he should've. You can make the same comment about Shindlers List and say that behind all the production value it's just a sad story that puts you down, therefore it's a bad movie; but that's doing a disservice to the POINT of the story, and the emotional value put into the film by the creators

[@asgerhyer5325]

Loved this movie :) Saw it twice in theaters. I hope Warner Bros have learned from this and will make more movies in this style :)

[@nateds7326]

Screen junkies: "there were so many contributing factors to his turn that it was hard to focus on one" ....yeah. that's kind of the point.

[@J_Tevo]

This movie establishes interesting discussions, to me, that makes a good/great film.

[@zachfakelastname]

I think it needs to do more then to just establish a discussion, and on top of that, the movies own director had a weird interpretation of what the discussion should be about.

[@J_Tevo]

@@zachfakelastname And... art gives people different views and opinions, likes and dislikes. You can take from it what you want, if the director says 'this is the point', doesn't mean thats what you HAVE to take from it.

[@zachfakelastname]

@@J_Tevo I'm not saying one is the ONLY way to view it, I'm just saying Phillips seemed to have a different idea of what the movie meant from others who worked on it (which he is allowed to have) and I thought it was noticeable in the movie

[@majorccunliffe4662]

loving the original Bladerunner décor wall feature..wow..want

[@MOTHblank]

12:32 He was told he was not going to get his medicine anymore when he was asking for more. He took too many drugs already, and that was not enough for him. His life sucked, and that peculiar part of him would always come off to remember him of that (laughing in the bus, laughing in the train). The turn happens when he stops trying to hold it back.

[@vanessachloe8323]

Lindsay ellis did a pretty interesting video essay discussing "his dad's bad" re guardians 2 here on KZbin

[@willcarlson1120]

A slightly above average movie that is super accessible. It’s film aspects are better then other super hero movies which makes the people who only watch super hero movies think it’s a masterpiece.

[@dimitrythomas4158]

Right on. I feel like it mostly seems to be loved by teenagers that have grown up watching super hero movies and this is their first foray into anything as "realistic' and dark as this. I believe its actually jsut an average movie though.

[@cynicalidealist11]

Bit of a generalization, there's plenty of people who don't "only watch super hero movies" who were riveted with this film.

[@jasongeorgis3483]

My thoughts on Joker: Everyone involved not named Todd Phillips did an incredible job and deserves all the credit. Everyone else should probably cool off on how smart they think they are.

[@tomtalks23]

Yeah it feels like Todd just assembled a talented team of people to make what he saw as his "masterpiece" and then just got caught up in his own hype.

[@fangal12]

It was well directed though.

[@Popcultureguy3000]

fangal12 Not well enough directed to justify Todd Philips taking Greta Gerwing’s spot as a Best Director nomination for the Oscars this year.

[@georgesquillace300]

Bump

[@jasongeorgis3483]

@@fangal12 I don't disagree, I was coming at it more from the writing angle. I think the screenplay is easily the weakest aspect of the film.

[@Horrormaster13]

I hope Joaquin Phoenix wins The Oscar. He deserved it.

[@justinriley]

He was incredible. Though I wouldn't be against Adam Driver winning for Marriage Story either.

[@thedarkknight2221]

I’m kinda surprised they never brought up in the trailer how much Arthur smokes. Like the fact you see how stained his fingertips are and when he uses his thumbs to make Bruce smile, or in the ending scene when he’s in Arkham and he’s smoking and you really see how stained his fingers are. I never smoke so looking at that was freaking nasty

[@jamesbunt6846]

Unlike "fetch", "Joker stuff" is happening.

[@thelasthokage7621]

The very fact that you just said the Joker has an agenda is the reason why we all know you don’t fully understand who Joker is. So........

[@Nope2022HugeTheWarningFan]

I don't think they get much more than what's on their call sheet.

[@morlun838]

Joker's an anarchist. There, found an agenda for you.

[@rameenz1178]

Great commentary. I also believe Joker tried to juggle too many themes while trying to reference the Batman universe, but it couldn't hone in on one.

[@kdscool1536]

That's not true, the movie is about people's lack of empathy and it's fully focused on it, all other themes just support the core one. You read into wrong stuff.

[@ureallysuckglobes]

Kds Cool THANK YOU. The movie wasn’t trying to be a deep commentary on class, that was just a backdrop to Arthur’s story.

[@Nope2022HugeTheWarningFan]

Rameen, I almost agree it's not a bad commentary. But you don't get the movie whatsoever.

[@margarethmichelina5146]

Please do: Honest Trailer for Oscar 2020 and The Screenies!

[@cristianlopezdelle6764]

Now I remember why I don’t watch this channel anymore lmao

[@twoheadedgoat]

Honest Trailers now has a more intellectually honest and insightful take on a Movie than Film Crit Hulk. Something is wrong and it is the internet.

[@khrashingphantom9632]

Joe said it spot on with Arthur Fleck just being pushed along in the film. That's why I really didn't like this movie. It falls into the trap of showing a character being down trodden by making EVERYONE else around them terrible, which is jarring because it makes removes any illusion of realism. That's a problem because "realism" is what this movie is trying to strive for. There does seem to be this attempt to say the movie is from his perspective, but that idea isn't really well developed when they show the flashback of him talking to his love interest and showing us the audience that she really wasn't there as his love interest. I could go all day on why this movie is just exhausting, but I think this is the best way to put it. It is watching a fantastic, prolific actor really absorb himself masterfully into a C- 1st year film school student's rendition of Taxi Driver.

[@athenajaxon2397]

Spot on

[@VOLAIRE]

He deserves every award he was nominated for

[@jessec9496]

I enjoy all of you but Dan, you are just the best... by a mile👍🏼

[@Suisai13]

Joker works as a one-off alternate story. It doesn't have to explain why the Joker we all know always existed, it tells a singular story of "A" Joker that could have been.

[@markpeters6430]

9:17 Video starts at 00:04

[@HariKrishnan-ec5mn]

Well, it's a fairly simple movie. There are quasi layers to it but yeah. Quite a good one for it's own universe! Kudos to JP..

[@thegodhimself1018]

Hari Krishnan best film of the year and getting oscars next 👌

[@HariKrishnan-ec5mn]

@@thegodhimself1018 Well considering the long list of of average to mediocre films which gets best picture at Oscar's, I would say it has a chance. 😂

[@MsZeeZed]

Ben Mekler's hot take from the first day’s screenings was hilarious, but this movie is so serious it deserved that great joke as a release. But like the best jokes there’s a seed of truth, the end of film has that fresh wild energy & first the uncertainty of “where is this going?”

[@MM-cs2rt]

It’s always fun to see who’s gonna be the counter point guy. It’s usually Spencer, guess Joe pulled that card for this skit.

[@wiktoriabarecka6006]

"Leto is son" I SPAT MY DRINK JOE I CANT

[@SaketSharma5595]

Can't believe Lon defended Game Of Thrones Final season and didn't understand what Joker movie is about.

[@helenledwith7016]

I am not sure if you are mocking him for taking care of his Mom or pointing out the lack of the usual Joker criminal activities. There are many people who have to take care of elderly parents. It is hard and emotionally draining for sane people.

[@conniescorner9021]

The behind the scenes stuff is not boring. 💗 SJ!