Sefris vs Isao vs Ramos vs Rowan & Will Kenrith EDH / CMDR game play for Magic: The Gathering

[@Devilish420]

I swear that Ramos deck keeps getting better and better every time I see it in action.

[@TheGangster1505]

And every time I want to build It more myself

[@Devilish420]

@@TheGangster1505 you should man. Mutate isn't really my thing or else I'd consider it myself.

[@LzyBn1987]

I am starting to wonder if he even has any other decks at this point lol

[@Devilish420]

@@LzyBn1987 i think he has a Gavi deck at one point but I think he may have tore it apart.

[@allein8er]

He also definitely has a zedruu deck

[@LadyTsunade777]

One quick but VERY important note about Dungeon of the Mad Mage: if a player chooses to go to the Runestone Caverns room, they _cannot_ save those cards to play later. They have to choose whether to play those cards _right then as the ability resolves_ . This is because the ability only says "You may play them." and does _not_ have "this turn" "until end of turn" "as long as they remain exiled" etc.

[@Threadoflength]

Only took 49375969 games but your Mutate pile actually did a thing! Good job!

[@MTGMuddstah]

Yep, haha!

[@cameronc530]

I feel like I made this same comment last time Sefris was on the channel but the cards that are exiled as part of Runestone Caverns must be cast as part of the trigger resolving. Johnny can't just let them sit in exile until he wants to cast them. Edit: Just got to the end :p In addition, Sefris doesn't see itself die and whenever a board clear happens in which Sefris dies along with your other creatures, Sefris does NOT see those creatures hit the graveyard and you will not get a trigger. Sefris must remain on the battlefield to get that trigger.

[@codow1614]

Just to get this right, if her ability triggers whenever a creature dies, she would get a trigger of herself dying, would she? But because of a creature card has to enter the graveyard, it doesn't trigger

[@cameronc530]

@@codow1614 correct, it's because the creature needs to be put into the graveyard, not just die.

[@teenaortega315]

I believe sefris does see all creatures dying when there is a board whipe but since it is not on the battlefield, the second ability does not resolve. It also sees itself, but again it's not on bf to resolve second trigger.

[@cameronc530]

@@teenaortega315 ? We're talking about Sefris's first ability that allows you to venture into the Dungeon. This is the last ruling on Gatherer: "Sefris of the Hidden Ways must be on the battlefield for its first ability to trigger. It does not trigger when Sefris goes to the graveyard from the battlefield, even if other creature cards also went to the graveyard at the same time."

[@AviarkXIII]

@@cameronc530 This is correct, this happens specifically because seferis is NOT a dies trigger, where if Sefris was a dies trigger, then it would see these things happen.

[@RayneDropVT]

I love seeing a Will and Rowan Kenrith deck. I made one myself focused on Rowan's ultimate to double stack the Planeswalker abilities, so it is nice to see one more focused on Will.

[@LordWerwath]

The dungeon trigger to exile the cards must be played during trigger resolution, not at any time during the turn.

[@stuartm7009]

He even cast one card from it like 2 turns later, I think he thought it meant "you may cast it while it remains exiled". It's the reason I don't often go by the gemstone caverns if I'm in Mad Mage Edit: we obviously didn't watch till the end, because he mentioned it lol

[@candilowsxp1563]

Isao definetly caught my eye, looking forward to see how all decks perform, haven't seen Sefris that much too, an excellent commander

[@TheMetalInsideUsAll]

He kinda broke sefris in this game. Sefris only triggers once per turn and doesn't see itself die...

[@candilowsxp1563]

@@TheMetalInsideUsAll yeah

[@TheBalogna7]

That was such an awesome showing for Ramos. It's been nice to see the deck grow over the past videos and to see it finally go off.

[@kingfuzzy2]

It also won on aliasv commander gameplay video.

[@daringplays3966]

It was so cool seeing that Isao deck in action Mononoke is one of my favorite movies right now and I loved how I was able to tell exactly what part of the movie he was capturing with each card!

[@Kelsonar]

Ramos mutate is so amazing to watch, and makes me really want to build it myself. Vadrok is such an all star for the deck.

[@ScottySpeeks]

I built it with a few minor changes and everything you say is true

[@DingDaily]

Im so happy to see someone else has made a mono(noke)-green deck themed around my personal favorite movie! So cool!

[@DingDaily]

@Aljaz O that sounds super funny! Mines a degenerate selvala deck XD

[@DingDaily]

@Aljaz O i meant to say fun, but if funny works, that's good XD Yikes. That's a nifty combo if you get it going! Mine is more about vomiting my deck onto the field as quickly as possible. Good times

[@xtyberius]

I feel like you've been tweaking this Ramos deck for years! It's been fun to watch.

[@connorl0204]

WOOO! Ramos mutate finally gets a W! Good job andrew, that deck has really gotten much more consistent these last few games

[@DarkEinherjar]

At long last, we got to see Ramos do its thing, and it was glorious.

[@jarrybryant718]

I love this Content so much. I found a video of yours with someone playing Garna and I just wanted an idea of how it plays, now I am stuck watching these amazing videos.

[@Senpaiper]

I was so happy to see ramos win on camera. Congrats. I didn't know paradoxical outcome counts the mutate deck individually

[@Princederbat]

Wow! That was so cool to see your Ramos deck really do what you wanted it to! So many strong and interesting synergies!

[@Vektor480]

This was one of the coolest EDH matches I've watched in a long time. Loved to see Ramos! Dragon engine goes brrrr

[@jacem4925]

I love seeing Sefris, but there are a ton of play mistakes here. Sefris does not see other creatures hit the graveyard when she dies at the same time. Sefris also doesn't trigger on her own death. She needs to be on the field to see the creature card enter the graveyard.

[@kasualh]

Damn, what a game. Andrew, that Ramos deck is super impressive and you piloted it very well. I'm amazed how resilient it was -- that mutate stack just kept coming back and punishing the table. Awesome to see it.

[@kylefleck7065]

Finally. Ramos has attained his final form. Broooooo I have been waiting every episode ramos showed up to bring some mutate heat and it finally happened! That final mutate stack was so glorious it my own ramos-mutate deck blush

[@dcrow9650]

THIS. This is the Ramos game I been waiting for. Such beautiful game. Thanks for the content.

[@Bheckler24]

I feel like Ramos desperately wants Flash enablers right? Being able to mutate in response and take advantage of Ramos's mana ability seem too juicy to not build around.

[@MTGMuddstah]

10000% yes

[@swrodgon]

Assuming you already have Vedalken Orrery and Leyline of Anticipation in there somewhere?

[@Libery300]

@@MTGMuddstah Vivien, Champion of the Wilds could work really well

[@MTGMuddstah]

@@Libery300 I have a copy on my desk for the deck. Just need to find time to update them!

[@plain6677]

Maybe a deck for Tidal Barracuda finally! I’ve always wanted to see this wild card in action

[@socalacura1338]

I know this is an older video, but something I learned is that Sefris needs to be on the battlefield when the trigger would happen or else it doesn't. Since it's templated as "from anywhere" rather than just "when X dies", the trigger doesn't look into the past. This also matters when you cast a board wipe; midnight reaper will see those triggers, but Sefris will not

[@TheMetalInsideUsAll]

Sefris doesn't trigger off its own death and on top of that he triggered sefris 3 times on Andrews turn which is not how the card works... 11:30 Lol he also used a dungeon room to sacrifice a creature to trigger sefris again which again isn't how it works

[@giovannibss10]

Actually Sefris can trigger from creatures sacrificed with the dungeon's effect as long as she wasnt the card responsible for the venture and the first time she sees a creature hit the graveyard that turn

[@faerie7dragon]

10 turns and no one has tried to combo yet... I wish my EDH games looked like this. Sefris doesn't see creatures dying if she dies at the same time, but she does see a creature hitting the graveyard from anywhere, even from the Disdainful Stroke. My next commander for sure.

[@patykaarplegos6282]

The rowan twins. Yes, Finally someone else plays them. I love them as a commander, they are really unique

[@kylefleck7065]

Too bad they are just so generic looking as characters for me to want to play them hahaha

[@kira-inthehood648]

Nice to finally see the Ramos Mutate deck at it's full potential

[@DuzyPies]

Mutate is one of my favourite mechanics. Have you considered Double Major? It puts two copies of a mutato on the stack, or maybe even get you two Ramos for more mana shenanigans. There's also an infinite combo with Double Major and Vadrok

[@jamessmith5256]

I love the Ramos deck. I love watching the card interactions. Vadrock is just so brutal to watch continually recasting removal.

[@Twime.]

Any way we can get the Isao deck list? Love the inspiration. Mutate is also one of my favorite mechanics! So awesome To see it pop off

[@Qcheffing]

that mutate stack, storm was sick 🤘 all the decks where really cool and the game had some interesting back and forth and slick editing

[@phil4459]

Sefris dosn't trigger when she dies, also not if she dies with another creature at the same time... sadly. But a fun game :)

[@jinshootingstar]

I ask you why? The rule changed last year, and it reads: "If a commander is in a graveyard or in exile and that card was put into that zone since the last time state-based actions were checked, its owner may put it into the command zone." So, they are playing correctly.

[@BaikenAndEggs]

@@jinshootingstar "Sefris of the Hidden Ways must be on the battlefield for its first ability to trigger. It does not trigger when Sefris goes to the graveyard from the battlefield, even if other creature cards also went to the graveyard at the same time." Taken from Sefris's rule information. Sefris's ability is not a death trigger, it checks when a specific card type hits the graveyard.

[@Zekaisa]

Probably mentioned MANY times but Sefris does not trigger if she is in the graveyard when the trigger would happen AKA when she dies or is hit by a boardwipe.

[@Barturito]

Johnny gotta study up on Sefris. Sefris doesn’t venture off herself dying so Chain Reaction and Savage Punch wouldn’t have triggered. Also you have to reveal the three cards you draw from Dungeon of the Mad Mage.

[@rommelojeda]

Hi, I don't know if you have considered but there is a card from the ikoria counters deck that can give any stack you make with mutate a hexproof counter if can't find any hexproof creature. It's a sweet deck

[@jacket2848]

Sefris doesn't trigger off her own death, by the way.

[@DakingofAP]

Wait what really, why not? Doesn't it go to the graveyard then command zone?

[@kingfuzzy2]

Might be "another"

[@DakingofAP]

@@kingfuzzy2 it doesn’t say “another”, just happens when one or more creature cards are put into your graveyard.

[@Gizmachi]

She has to be on the field to resolve her ability when a creature dies.

[@DakingofAP]

@@Gizmachi Ah makes sense

[@moocowp4970]

I know i'm super late, but at 10min mark Johnny shouldnt have ventured on Sefris' death. Sefris doesnt trigger on their own death as they need to be on the battlefield for the venture triggers. Building a Sefris deck currently and using this for research, I appreciate the content, thanks :)

[@P4CCHU]

YESSSSS, finally Ramos got what he deserved!!!!

[@leewright5281]

I’m building a Vadrok deck right now and watching your mutate deck work is awesome!

[@MTGMuddstah]

I've posted a game with Harry playing a Vadrok deck if you're looking for more inspiration!

[@kettutelvella122]

As a long time Will and Rowan player, I get super excited to see it show up on your channel. I'm always disappointed by how it performs.

[@masterpenjui9654]

You play that Ramos deck so much! Makes it sooooo tempting to make one of my own xD

[@SkaalKesh]

Seeing how your Ramos Mutate deck works really makes me want to make a mutate deck.

[@SasukeKydo]

i absolutely love your ramos mutate deck. granted i personally would never build a mutate deck because the mechanic confuses me, but it's awesome to see in action.

[@stuartm7009]

Did you know Sefris' venture ability doesn't trigger then she dies? she has to see it enter the graveyard, not leave the battlefield, and as such she and anyone who dies with her won't be seen by her ability because she's in the graveyard when it would trigger. I only realised when I wondered why the ability was worded the way it was when Syr Konrad exists with such different wording

[@HalGL01]

Subbed to see the ramos deck list, looked really fun to play

[@kG-fv3jd]

love seeing that ramos mutate deck work so beautifully. great game

[@AdamSund]

Glad to see Ramos finally shine!

[@thesadseal2electricboogalo597]

Ramos, dude... I love seeing all those shenanigans

[@RedBossTV]

That mutate deck is such a nice concept. Poor Otrimi

[@dess8815]

that's still a sweet card to add to the deck getting back your dudes is super good to have

[@y-samuelktul340]

Its nice seeing your Ramos take off, may the gods of RNG keep you in their favor.

[@JukerNaut]

4:23 I'm confused why he ventured on the board wipe? Sefris can't see them hit the graveyard if she dies at the same time.

[@MTGMuddstah]

It was a mistake on our part.

[@lilgreen4073]

Ramos literally has mutated over time and finally had its moment!!!

[@TheGameTable]

Muddstah, I think the Ramos decklist linked in the description is missing two cards. Counting up the categories (minus the commander) only gives me 97 cards. What are the other two that are missing?

[@MTGMuddstah]

I'll need to go back and look at it. I may have started updating it and gotten distracted.

[@TheGameTable]

@@MTGMuddstah Sounds good, thanks!

[@beastlydudeman]

Is there a deck list for the Ramos deck cuz I love how it functions and wanna see if he has any spicy cards I could include in my mutate deck

[@Aelyro]

Would love to see more of Dylan's deck.

[@royalfishness1]

Loved seeing Ramos really get to pop off

[@Googleflax]

Is there a decklist for the Isao deck? I started to get a little bit suspicious when I saw the giant boar only for you to confirm that it is a Princess Mononoke theme deck and I'd love to see more of it.

[@MTGMuddstah]

I'll try to get one. I only met the guy playing it that evening, and I haven't really seen him since.

[@DrunkenLee]

Ever since the banning of golos, I swapped it to Ramos. I don’t get to play many big dumb spells anymore but I do get to cast gods and Godzilla now for Ramos maximum effect.

[@chall3ng33v3rything]

I know this is late but do you have the list for the isao deck?

[@marquisgoodwin2754]

If serifs dies you don’t get to venture into the dungeon. It’s on the mtg ruling site

[@afspeellijstnaruto]

I still love your Ramos deck. It's cool!

[@papanurgle1169]

JEEEEESUS!! that mutate line at the end ahahahahahah

[@Millus1987]

awesome decks! I liked the will/rowan; and Ramos is better in every video!

[@williamfolkesson944]

Quick question regarding the ramos decklist. How come it only has 98 cards?

[@AviarkXIII]

Sefris doesn't trigger of herself dying, also doesn't trigger if she dies at the same time as everything else on the battlefield, as it isn't a dies trigger so the special dies trigger rules don't apply.

[@stevenshafer2817]

About damn time the ramos deck did something

[@quantuminion6396]

How did the mutate stack survive the time wipe? Am I missing something?

[@MTGMuddstah]

The mist has indestructible as an ability by default.

[@quantuminion6396]

@@MTGMuddstah thought I’d mist something lol

[@calebbroussard9890]

Does anyone know what playmat Dylan is using?

[@bend5963]

Andrew’s opening hand was so good

[@OodustwindoO]

Any way to get Johnny's decklist?

[@dess8815]

put in that one dimir dude with hexprof that also turns into creatures that die hes awesome and hes even 2 colors so ramos would like him there is also a vampire with flying death touch and hexprof you can add in

[@aleffe8539]

Ramos won! Good Game and a hug from Brazil!

[@newtpondskipper]

Loving mutate in your deck!

[@AyundaRisuFan]

So cool seeing all the mutate triggers

[@iPhonix07]

The ramos deck is super super sweet!

[@afspeellijstnaruto]

Lol i just bought like 20 cards with 'Venture into Dungeon' yesterday to 'upgrade' the janky sefris precon (which I have not yet bought LOL)

[@Biplo314]

Love seeing Ramos pop off!

[@kingfuzzy2]

Hope to see some spicy jank ( :

[@mcpeidorreiro]

Any chance I could get your deck list Andrew ?

[@MTGMuddstah]

The Ramos list? Yep! It's the video description.

[@LucasRoth42]

Sefris doesn't see a card hitting the GY on the baord wipe since she also dies, meaning she will no longer be on the battlefield to trigger

[@jonram6009]

Yes a great way to start the morning

[@FelipeMannrich]

Andrew, any chances of we seeing your Ardenn deck?

[@MTGMuddstah]

Very slim I'm afraid. I've taken it apart.

[@tycoon1323]

So I decided to see how much the Ramos deck was because I really wanted to either build it or buy it myself. Saw the cost of the deck and was so surprised it was $370 for it. I was so confused when there were so many cheap creatures and spells in the deck. Until I saw the lands.... The man's got $260 worth of LANDS. JUST LANDS!!!!! Swapping them out for cheaper alternatives brings the price down to a more reasonable price around $127-140.

[@josemaravilla6955]

My body is ready

[@GudHunterYT96]

Johnny with that ark knights may

[@ericriner9425]

Love seeing the mutate going off

[@FPRobber]

Afaik if Sefris and a bunch of other creatures die at the same time she doesn't see them hit the graveyard. Can someone confirm or deny that?

[@faerie7dragon]

You are right, she doesn't see it if she dies as well.

[@Bheckler24]

Yep. "Sefris of the Hidden Ways must be on the battlefield for its first ability to trigger. It does not trigger when Sefris goes to the graveyard from the battlefield, even if other creature cards also went to the graveyard at the same time."

[@hoph19]

Sweet decks

[@cactuarnoob100]

It was so fucking sick to see Ramos pop off like it did.

[@deandreholmes3807]

I’ve been seeing comments about Sefris not triggering off herself. Does anyone mind explaining why this wouldn’t be the case? Since her ability does not say “other,” but says “whenever one or more cards..” why wouldn’t she trigger off herself?

[@MTGMuddstah]

It's because of a ruling on Gatherer for the card itself. I just looked into it. The rule is: "9/24/2021: Sefris of the Hidden Ways must be on the battlefield for its first ability to trigger. It does not trigger when Sefris goes to the graveyard from the battlefield, even if other creature cards also went to the graveyard at the same time."

[@NMS127]

More precisely, it's because the game generally checks for triggers after an event occurs. There are some exceptions, including leaves-the-battlefield triggers, that are checked before the event. But Sefris isn't one of them. 603.10. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions, and continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities are exceptions to this rule; the game "looks back in time" to determine if those abilities trigger, using the existence of those abilities and the appearance of objects immediately prior to the event. The list of exceptions is as follows: 603.10a. Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.

[@redounet06]

Hey 4:32 Sefris does not trigger when there is a wrath

[@nilugaming1781]

4:30 u play wrong, after wipe sefris first ability doesn't trigger. 9/24/2021 Sefris of the Hidden Ways must be on the battlefield for its first ability to trigger. It does not trigger when Sefris goes to the graveyard from the battlefield, even if other creature cards also went to the graveyard at the same time.

[@jessedorval7051]

What a game that mutate deck is looking good

[@admiralJONK]

ramos went off!!!!!! i’m so proud!!!!!!!!!!

[@AidanWR]

A glacial chasm that can tap for mana? Nice 5:17

[@MTGMuddstah]

Bah, misspoke! Meant to say Glacial Fortress

[@ErikTheRedd1]

Ramos popped off this game

[@Icecolten1]

Just started but as always cheering on Ramos

[@ingolf82]

Your Ramos list seems to have 98 cards, why is that? whats missing?

[@mramisuzuki6962]

I swear you hear me o these was about to make a Isao deck.