Sensibly Speaking Podcast

[@misswarda78]

My six year old figured it out... “Mummy if the earth is flat,,,, what is on the other side?” 🤣 Thanks for another quality podcast!

[@darthmom1019]

Your six-year-old is more intelligent than most adults. 👍

[@cheechalker8430]

That’s a good question .... which I will ponder over a glass of wine or two .....

[@misswarda78]

@@cheechalker8430 lol, did the wine help your pondering? Hehe. 😌

[@victorcode2075]

😂 .... Well I'm Australian, so maybe us!

[@goldiemckernan1189]

@@victorcode2075 Oh that's too funny! 🇺🇸 ❤ 🇦🇺

[@yonandonibadiola]

Whats the difference between a thief and $cientology? The thief says give me your money or your life, $cientology says Give me your money AND your Life.

[@yonandonibadiola]

Another excellent and very educational video from Chris. What I got out of this is the notion that psycopathy, sadism and narcissism are abundant in many places and not only in Scientology...

[@dp2147]

Really interesting interview with JH. Seems like the best minds in Scientology always end up leaving.

[@watchingworm]

I think we’re lucky that Jeff’s ideas were axed every time. Otherwise Scientology would’ve been a lot larger if they were implemented on a wider scale.

[@chronometera]

At the end when he is talking about the media narrative, Hawkins is spot on. He should be a media professor

[@tamara6212]

He understands completely.

[@DEPARTMENTOFREDUNDANCYDEPT]

Joining Scientology is the non-surgical equivalent of volunteering for a frontal lobotomy.

[@tamara6212]

Nicely put Richard!

[@lesleybishop1065]

This is just amazing. The "leaders" who were in effect, torturing their staff had the least amount of intelligence!!

[@annachristie377]

I wish Chris would do a podcast on "Touch Assist" and all the other proceedures that SCN are taught as far as the ability to Heal yourself.

[@lesleybishop1065]

Yes!!!!

[@seanmcmullen4274]

jeff hawkins is the best

[@flemwad]

Class!!! can't get enough ty ty ty

[@DeshierArchitecte]

"I'm a propagandist" drinks out of Starbucks coffee mug

[@kayvanepps8297]

Fascinating discussion as always.

[@MichaelYoder1961]

Great interview! Learned a lot more from a different perspective. Thanks, Chris and Jeff!

[@I_m_not_joking]

It's a pity that Netflix content differs from area to area. No Aftermath in Finland!

[@SiloSimon]

Very good conversation, thanks for sharing it Chris and Jeff :)

[@tamara6212]

Excellent podcast! Thanks Chris and Jeff and respect to you both.

[@Theslavedrivers]

Would love to see you attempt to re-create the 'Hubbard Cosmology' PowerPoint some day, Chris!!

[@harleypiper]

get a life

[@Theslavedrivers]

@@harleypiper thanks for that contribution :-)

[@TheCaptainSlappy]

Now THIS was educational. Excellent stuff.

[@Amy-bn7hn]

This is so, so interesting. I luv jeff!

[@lperez123]

thank you Chris

[@lane6216]

Great interview!! I grew up in the Jehovah’s Witness cult. Different but very similar. I have learned so much throughout my life. One main thing: whoever is giving you information has an agenda. It may be good, bad, or neutral, but it’s there. Act accordingly.

[@ameliarbaldwin1402]

This is a good video

[@yonandonibadiola]

what still amazes me is that the leader of an org that promises to better/clear mankind of demons/thetans would himself be so angry and obviously hurting inside as to be so abusive to others around him and running the whole thing as if he was Stalin, or the complete opposite of what he is selling?

[@kulaniwarner7262]

Thanks for another great video!!

[@liplockednomore]

Always enjoy your videos. The parallels between Scientology and Jehovah's Witnesses indoctrination is quite similar minus the dollars...😁💪

[@lauraarcher6996]

Except that Jehovah's witnesses live by the principles and guidelines in the Bible. Everything they believe is in God's word.

[@deviantoutcast]

"We make the abled, more able" - Lafayette Ron Hubbard, The Shrinking World of L. Ron Hubbard, 1968

[@chuckbeattyo]

1:22:00. What also happened in the early 1990s was the LA Times article laying out the Xenu story. (Then the Time Magazine article by Richard Behar, just huge unappreciated dent in Scienotlogy's stats). The Xenu story is something internally not considered to have effected stats, but on the logic that outsiders are the ones who can see what Scientologists can't see, I asked on Alt Religion Scientology a survey of the 1990s critics who are on ARS in 2004ish, I asked them what THEY thought most was hurting Scientology's stats. And the Xenu story revelation and leaking all through the 1990s came up top. And the internet in general, as the continuing biggest problem hurting Scientology's stats. And in light of the simple biggest problem of Scientology, that Hubbard never allowed a good summary accurate definition of Scientology nor Dianetics to be focused on well, the Xenu story and exorcism levels of OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are just major new info that came out in the 1990s, and has been known ever since. Scientology is this pseudo-therapy and exorcism practice. And the Xenu angle is Hubbard's faiult, he wrote the Xenu story explaining why earth got this massive dump of bodiless souls, that only Scientology's upper chart steps OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, five exorcism expensive levels, can fix. It's ruined sales, the content of the theory and practices that truly make up the simplest explainable content of what is Scientology, that is always on Hubbard. Hubbard is the biggest sales downstat causer, and it's due in major part to the internet sharing the biggest secrets of "upper Scientology". Scientology is quackery, that's on Hubbard. Marketing it will work only so far, and since the 1990s, the internet has boomed, and that's more likely the biggest cause of downstats for Scientology. (When "Going Clear...." final chapter details Hubbard was unable to exorcise his most troublesome "body-thetans" off himself at the end of his life, that was the ultimate in being hoisted by one's own petard.). Net time I get to chat with a spiritualist person, I'm going to tell them about Hubbard's final "body-thetans' problem and ask their opinion.. Some spiritualists might even say this is common for some "big souls" like Hubbard thought of himself that they have these orbiting nastier souls they can't eject/exorcise away from themselves. Only people who believe in this world of bodiless souls co-populating our world, might have comparative theory to Hubbard's final "OT case" shape. A question Jon Atack might know who to ask. Scientologists end up with radical soul beliefs and that's a characteristic that newbies to Scientology ought to become aware of early in newbies' entrance into Scientology.

[@goldiemckernan1189]

1:47: "I do have friends who are Trump supporters.." MOST DEFINITELY said with an air of apology. Um, what the F*CK?

[@rkvktmen]

If my friends were so easily triggered, I'd be apologetic too.

[@jononolan946]

How did it cost more to get that more info card in the book than the sale from the book?

[@alexapproach]

Who's thumbs downing these videos?

[@tamara6212]

One guess! Lol

[@goldiemckernan1189]

David Miscavage

[@HappyQuailsLC]

I think it targets good natured people

[@chuckbeattyo]

I'd have liked to message in some questions, to Jeff: a) What would Jeff do today if still there? b) How would Jeff try to build up the movement today, using free outside world marketing methods today. c) Is belief in past and future lives a "public" requirement to buy into Scientology? How big is a belief in past lives a given or requirement or dividing line, to becoming a member? d) In the early to mid 1980s, did Jeff liaise with Ken Delderfield, then at Author Services Inc, and later "Deld" (now deceased I heard) held one of the Exec Strata jobs. But who'd Jeff interact with for "approval" purposes, at ASI? Since ASI did do the oversight of all LRH's royalties collection and copyrights, (when I was promoted to work in ASI in 1992, copyrights for the books was Alison Fine, her husband Barry worked at Bridge, but Alison was at ASI).

[@fishdaddy35]

Hey Chuck, great to hear from you. If I was "still there" - perish the thought - I am sure they would still have me doing marketing. How would I build up the movement today? Well, obviously I wouldn't. But If I was still in and still under their brainwashing, I would apply standard advertising and marketing principles - as I always did. I would isolate a target market, do surveys, and craft a message that appealed to those people. Simple, but things they will never do, because they "already have all the answers"!

[@glendathegoodwitch6987]

Did you get a freeloader's bill when you left Chris?

[@daveluck5717]

Certainly agree that Miscaviage has no interest in expanding the subject or practice,, He sees success as a materialistic equation,, physical presence and quantity. Of course he knows what elements work and which elements have a cost/benefit risk ,, and he knows media imagery hits home faster than a prolonged study piece. Lucky for him he has enough patrons in the high end income bracket to materialise his view of success.

[@luanncaraway4746]

Does anybody know if David Miscaivge has bodyguards??

[@ChrisSheltonMsc]

Yes, he does.

[@HappyQuailsLC]

I think the white suits were a take-off on the Apple Computer marketing.... wondering if that is right.

[@TheColdrush22]

I swear Donald Trump is LRH in disguise.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Same orange hair.

[@SnowmanTF2]

You seem way too stuck to how much reading books being is related to intelligence, a major part of the massive drop in reading is those just doing it for enjoyment as other entertainment options have become available in the last several decades, even most reading for research and other reading time has moved to the internet over the last couple decades. It seems like using an semi arcane form of sport like fencing as the barometer of how athletic the general public is.

[@ChrisSheltonMsc]

I guess it didn't occur to you that reading books includes ebooks? A society that does not read or take in information is a society whose citizens will not understand themselves or the world around them. Audio-visual input of information only is not the same thing but certainly is a valid way to intake information, but not in the depth or density that written literature provides. You seem to have grossly misunderstood our comments on this.

[@fishdaddy35]

Reading is related to a lot of things, and one of them is a measure of how curious the person is about the world and about the bigger questions of life. Yes, there are many ways to read now, but the basic idea is still there. And don't get me started on people who "research" on the internet!

[@chuckbeattyo]

52:00. 54:05. strikes me as a long term wrong focus. Hubbard is the key to Scientology's growth or lack of expansion, more than a foul tyrant leader of the subject who's acting out their unhandled evil purposes. Or incompetence. I remember Shelly Brit said when she was in marketing with Jeff and the others, that by the late 1990s Shelly realised you just can't sell Scientology. It's the nature of what Scientology is, it's a subject that just won't sell. The problem is the actual Scientology itself. It's pseudo-therapy and quack exorcism. How can you reposition the quackery subject all the time and continually fool newbies who don't know that Scientology has a whole bunch of secret exorcism of Xenu's "body-thetans" in store for all followers? Scientology can't be sold, when the simple summary definition of Scientology is mis-stated as a marketing generalisation. Hubbard never allowed a simple definition that actually encompasses the key core practices of the pseudo-therapy and the exorcism of the Hubbard stepladder. Hubbard and Scientology can't even be trusted to self define themselves. Competent marketing just really is dodging and deflecting the buyers from finding out the simplest definition of what Scientology is, which is the pseudo-therapy and the exorcism core practices of the stepladder steps of the subject. Scientology is a quack pseudo-therapy and exorcism subject, delving into a person's past lives memories and exorcising the supposed "body-thetans" (surplus bodiless souls) that supposedly additionally infest our bodies as we live on earth today which require the 5 exorcism levels, OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7. That simple truth of what Scientology is I think is the killer of selling Scientology and competent sales and running of the pseudo-therapy and exorcism practices won't make up for the problem of this core nature of what the subject is. You can't sell quackery,. Eventually the public consumers wise up to the quackery despite competent marketing and management of the sales of the quackery. Seekers who want to learn the Scientology pseudo-therapy and delve into their past lives trauma, and who want to exorcise all of Xenu's "body-thetans" that have infested their human body, then those are the right public for Scientology. Competent managers and marketing for Scientology really just honestly ought promote to that chorus of seekers. Scientologists are people who train to become do-it-yourselfer pseudo-therapists and exorcists. They use the Hubbard Scientology meticulously detailed pseudo=therapy to delve into their past lives a lot, into ancient and existing space civilisations, supposedly, dig up their trauma and talk therapy it all to their betterment. Then they do years of exorcism of surplus souls that infest their bodies, they learn, due to Xenu having earth dumped a zillion messed up bodiless souls onto earth 75 million years ago. This stuff is hard to sell, and marketing can't really hide the theory which Scientology won't tell about themselves.

[@chuckbeattyo]

@Lawofimprobability Word smithing ads and PR work, is just that. It's not content of the subject that is advertised or PRed. That's a deeper problem, to the discussion, and a bigger problem, and that problem is on the author of the content of the subject. IN my unwinding out of the Scientology world, coming back to that basic, the subject, and the subject's "practices" and for Scientology the core practices are the pseudo-therapy and exorcism. And then the theory simplest building blocks of that subject's theory, for Scientology it's the soul, definition by Hubbard, we are each of us, our own soul (and we do have these swarming "body-thetans" or surplus souls that confuse us and leak their "case" into our minds and so forth, which is the theory fundamental for removing or exorcising these "body-thetans" for the 5 rather lengthy exorcism levels of Scentology). It's content, that is ultimate the boomerang on the participant of a practice that has been "effectively marketed and managed" as Hubbard was wont to do with his Scientology. But to me, my average public desire was to know what the heck the practice and theory of Scientology were, and it's mainly pretty radical soul beliefs. Now, were I a believer, what I withdrew to, was just a few simple Hubbard books, and you could get all the spiritual benefits, supposedly, from doing just a "desert island" collection of certain easily obtained Hubbard books and internet material. You could dispense with the whole authoritarian management crap of Scientology, and even dispense with the whole ethics part too, and just do the quackery pseudo-therapy on yourself, you could easily just get someone else to do it with you, and dispense with the Emeter and dispense with floating needles, and just go on what you believed you were discovering about yourself. Most people who already are prone to believe, or who already fully believe, in past lives experiences, don't need a Hubbard Emeter to prove to themselves that they believe in a past life or not. NO about of marketing will win already past/future lives believers away from possibly wishing to learn various techniques, and a person who so wishes, just needs to get the "Dianetics Today" 1975 book, written based on Hubbard's theory, and that book has the commands to delve into one's past lives, and just skip using the Emeter at all, and just launch into this supposedly real world of your past lives. Would I, no way. Would I recommend this, no, it's bunkum to me. All I wanted to know, really, when I went into Scientology in May 1975, were the step by step steps to soul fly out of my body. I realised years later this was a false hope, a wished for experience or "ability" that isn't humanly possible because I realised it's an invented concept, there is no soul that we each individually are, and we don't have this experience and only in our sujbective imagination minds, or in hallucination moments, do we think we are this invisible "static" soul entity that is self launchable so we can soul astronaut outside our human body and go soaring around like an invisible Caspar the Ghost. No ghost are we in our human body machine. So, at that, the subject collapsed for me, I can't recommend it. But I do remember some positive PR press "we" got from one of the spiritual magazines saying that the Hubbard past lives practices steps were acceptably adequate to help a believer launch into their past lives. It'd be good to dig up the views of the spiritualists about the New Era Dianetics commands, and their thoughts on the necessity or not, of using the Emeter to find past lives. Me I immediately think no Emeter is needed. Let the incident lie dormant until it percolates up enough that the patient spurts it out on his or her own, LOL. It's bunkum to me, not worth even thinking that one's dreams or imaginatory percolating thoughts are even snippets of one's truly past lives memories anyways, waste of time. But modern past lives therapists, I wonder what they think of the New Era Dianetics commands, and gather up any history of people thoughts. ON the exorcism levels of OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, that too, could be researched who in the freezone have tried other similar exorcism techniques, again, waste of time though, due to the unprovability and it's almost like an esoteric hobby, people putting more into it than will ever become common interest in the rest of the world's mind. Scientology falls on its content, most fundamentally.

[@armandoalcb]

LUL

[@cscutler]

Be careful not to let a bad experience with a deceptive man made belief deter you guys from faith in God. There is no esoteric/secret knowledge when it comes to the bible.