Sensor Wars: EOS R vs 5DIV vs Sony vs Fuji | High ISO | 4K

[@rhykko77]

Best and most balanced pixel peeper on KZbin !

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Thanks!

[@ahmedawad563]

Thanks for the excellent comparison Dustin. For me, Fuji is the clear winner. When you consider the price, it's amazing to see what the X-T3 has to offer.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

It's hard to argue with what it does at that price point. You can also get some pretty amazing lenses for comparatively reasonable prices.

[@JoaquimGonsalves]

Just started watching this video and I must say I love this window setting for your videos.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Thanks.

[@keng8883]

There is something strange going on with the Fuji camera. For some reason the bokeh lights you have setup on the black background area on the right side have blended into the black background and disappeared. Either you removed them from the Fuji shoot or the camera removed them with an aggressive noise reduction algorithm?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

No, they are still there. I use no noise reduction in any of these tests of any kind. (I turn all of that off)

[@AoCabo]

The difference in metering between the Canon and Sony suggests to me that the ISO ratings between the two are not the same. Seems to me the Sony is at least another 2/3 stops better in noise performance if the comparison were to keep aperture and shutter speed the same.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I did shoot controlled shutter speed in another test, and I don't think all of these cameras have a similar base ISO, actually, despite what the specs say.

[@eagleeyephoto8715]

Not sure what is new here there is no sensor same at the something what one call "iso".Iso in digital photography is not the part of exposure nor the iso 40000 is sensor native gain.If the sensor has same pixel pitch,in camera same metering, similar generation ADC converters and amps and same algorithm then one could do compare.The fact that Justin does not use lightmeter to set same exposure is saying something about the test and how each camera meters handling given situation.On the other hand I agree with Justin test since nobody will use camera as object of gain and algorithm investigation.Now day's are most of the sensor iso invariant so the one has to make a choice upon other parameters ,(eco) system ,size,lens line quality and availability, service, firmware upgrades and most important one value for money.

[@ajschot]

Dustin Abbott when i had the 1d2 i found myself using a stop less iso then the same shot with my 6d... however i never did a sientific test

[@avidgamefan]

@@eagleeyephoto8715 I agree. Many years ago, I realized that, despite there being an ISO standard, camera manufacturers did not adhere to a strict standard. So, yes, when comparing, you need to fix the aperture and shutter speed, and let ISO be "whatever". Now compare however you wish. Trying to match ISO is wrong and potentially misleading.

[@eagleeyephoto8715]

Gary Wolfe Yep, it is like comparing apples with oranges.There is device which beat the noise on any camera , we call it strobe or flash.

[@V8rgr8]

As a Canon user, I am glad to see that the Canon censor does pretty well against the others. It is an older design, so I am looking forward to a newer upgraded design. Thanks Dustin!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

It's capable of producing gorgeous images. To be honest, the only time I feel held back by a Canon sensor is occasionally I feel like I have less latitude in recovering skies as compared to my Sony bodies. That's it.

[@tigranharutyunyan7674]

Dustin, thank you very much for your extensive work. Is 6d mark1`s high iso performance superior to EOS R`s?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I don't think it is better, but neither is it really worse.

[@bobhanuman65]

I have always found aps-c and MFT cameras to be more contrasty and compressed than full frame. I prefer the full frame look and then add contrast if needed.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That's a valid point.

[@sandrolosi7921]

Hi Dustin, many thanks for this video. Very detailed and precise. I have only difficulties to understand why the pictures of the sony have about 1 stop shorter shutter time to match the canon exposure. Wouldn't this mean that in a real world situation, when i set same aperture and shutter speed, the sony will meter 1stop lower iso? Cheers

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I think it is possible that the Sony would meter a bit slower, though not one stop. The new a7RIV is actually more similar to the EOS R in sensitivity.

[@zomgonzo]

Great comparison. Will you be doing any segments on the Samyang 35 f1.4?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I've got them ready to release already, but getting some of the other content out is a higher priority.

[@zomgonzo]

Wonderful, will be waiting for that.

[@bennettandyp]

Fascinating. And your findings here complicated some of my unscientific observations:. I use 2 Sony's for work, an A9 and an A-mount A99M2. I'm very biased toward the A99M2 when I need the cleanest, lowest noise, highest resolution images. And the big files provide a lot more flexibility in post processing. BUT I find that at elevated ISOs, the A9 gives much cleaner images. No scientist here, but I've assumed that it's the result of the bigger sensor wells on the A9; whereas the A99 is heating up more. Indoor sports with no-flash rules is not the A99's specialty. To restate: no conclusions here. These are just one shooter's observations.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

There are interesting, though, Andrew.

[@justinnardella9879]

Dustin, I have been having a horizontal banding issue with my new 5D MKIV. It is particularly noticeable when pushing underexposed images at lower ISO values (not even extreme adjustments), and it seems similar to the shadow banding issues that some EOS R users have noticed. Is this just the nature of this sensor or an actual issue? Any input would be much appreciated, thanks!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That sounds like a sensor issue. I've not seen that with my own 5DIV, and I've just run extensive tests across all these cameras and not found that.

[@justinnardella9879]

Dustin Abbott Looks like I’ll be sending it in to Canon, thanks!

[@peasantrobot]

How do you find Fujifilm tonal gradation compared to EOS R? From this movie (and probably because of youtube compression), looking at the lens in the images, it seems to me that tonal gradation suffers a little with Fujifilm... But it might be my poor eyesight as well...

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Perhaps elaborate a little more on what you see, as I'm not picking up on what you describe.

[@peasantrobot]

@@DustinAbbottTWI this zone, it seems to me there are no smooth transitions, rather jumpy drive.google.com/open?id=1NEI5VUx2bzOt8Wqws68jG6v80ob1LAhq

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Hmmm, I didn't really notice anything that has stood out to me during my review. I do find, in general, that I prefer full frame transitions, but I do think the X-T3 is probably the best APS-C performer I've seen.

[@christianvolkner2028]

Thank you for the review! I think many people will appreciate your comparisons and your trademark balancing act of showing the good and not so good points while retaining the dignity of the object. Many reviewers on KZbin should take a look at your channel to learn a thing or two👍🏻

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Thank you. I think that many KZbinrs embrace sensationalism to drive views.

[@vizmatter]

Thanks again for your detailed look at these various cameras for their still photography capabilities as opposed to their video tech, as most other KZbin videos do. Gives me a better sense where I will invest my resources for a still photography camera and optic system.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

For sure - glad to help out!

[@rgaik11]

EOS R has surprisingly good sensor but A7R3 is superior. In real world both cameras will do just fine. I guess dynamic range is where Sony is way ahead of Canon offerings.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That's the next episode.

[@bobhanuman65]

I sold my a7riii and use the EOS R now mostly for portraits. Even though I always got good results out of Sony cameras I never really enjoyed using them. I bought a x t3 and love using it in the street and impromptu photos but I can’t get the same quality I’m looking for from the lens selection for portraits. Maybe it’s just me but I like the EOS R in spite of some warts.

[@MichaelRungPhotography]

@@DustinAbbottTWI looking forward to that one!!

[@MestreMur]

kopyto with a perfect light situation all this cameras are great, but for that complicated or almost impossible photos, I only use a Sony sensor...

[@Bilalizaddin]

I also sold my sony it is just not good ergonomic camera , also the sensor collects more dust than you imagine, I spend less time with canon and fuji in post also

[@eldood1511]

Great video! I'm trying to decide between the X-T3 and X-T30 to add to my kit! Thanks from a new subscriber!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I'm glad this helps out!

[@ajschot]

The EOS R and the 5d4 don’t use the same processor right?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I believe the EOS R uses a Digic 8, while the 5D Mark IV uses a Digic 6+

[@_Trakman]

Why were the shutter speeds different on the 5DIV vs EOS R?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That was the interesting bit. The EOS R’s sensor seems more sensitive. It required less light compared to the 5DIV. Equal shutter speeds would have produced an overexposed image for the EOS R.

[@_Trakman]

Ahh I see 👍🏻

[@ΠετροςΡουσσος-ε5ξ]

All the non Canon cameras have far more superior contrast as a general look. Would you say its a lens or sensor related issue? Thanks a lot in advance!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I would have to say "sensor", as the 35L IS II is probably the best autofocusing 35mm lens out there. Adding contrast is easy, though.

[@ΠετροςΡουσσος-ε5ξ]

Thank you very much! Yes it is i guess, its just that the difference was quite noticable for not to ask. :)

[@christianvolkner2028]

I wouldn’t say that the lack of contrast is a bad thing tough. Don’t you think that the images of the Canon look very balanced and natural because of that?

[@ΠετροςΡουσσος-ε5ξ]

Christian Völkner well to be honest i m not quite sure. Since i was not at the setup i do not know how was the natural look of the objects. But 2 out of the three brands presented (sony and fuji) looked more similar than different, so one could say that this is the more natural look. I am a canon shooter but most of all i like photography so i m trying to figure things out without bias :)

[@mauibuilder1239]

I would like to see the Nikon Z6 was in the mix because I believe that it is a viable contender that is building a lot of interest, although it just became available for purchase.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I can understand that, but I don't actually cover Nikon. I don't have enough time to cover everything.

[@mauibuilder1239]

@@DustinAbbottTWI I totally understand. Your reviews are excellent....my go to channel for camera and lens reviews over the years. Keep up the great work!

[@HugoCamara]

Another great video, cannot wait to see the DR comparison between R and 5D4.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Next week I'll roll that content out.

[@apassionfortangling3671]

Do you think there could be any differences from camera to camera within the same Camera. I.E. testing 2 identical cameras? There was an old saying in the British car industry. "Don't buy one made on a Friday"?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

There's always that possibility. Here's hoping it is unlikely, and I haven't heard any major issues hit the internet with any of the new cameras yet.

[@diy-fixit9566]

Thanks for your video and efforts. Because of this video I found out Adobe DNG 11.1 is out and converts EOS R files right now. Stills at 12,800 are easy to remove noise in LR6 with limited loss of detail. I remember not ever wanting to use over 3,200 on the 5D3. Two stops difference is amazing. I did my test shot at 1/15 sec f/4.0 on the new rf 24-105. Just to illustrate the actual low light in the room at this time.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

ISO performance has really improved in the last generation or so.

[@cooloox]

DIY-FIXIT That's impressive. You'll probably find the native .Cr2 files process better than the DNG files. Have you looked at your images in Canon Digital Photo Professional? It's a lot better than it was a few years ago.

[@diy-fixit9566]

@@cooloox That is a clever idea at least to look at them If I understand correctly I can only export them as jpegs? Only reason I haven't considered Digital Photo, but I will definitely give it a try and I will be putting my video buy the weekend for sure about Hi ISO Eos R performance. And I believe they are called Cr3 on this body.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

@@cooloox They don't, actually. Adobe makes a huge investment in the DNG format. I don't particularly enjoy using DPP. I've got a workflow that I'm massively invested in, and it works.

[@_Trakman]

Could we do up more comparisons with Nikon 850 and Sony A73

[@valshelkunov6127]

It seems like the shutter speed Is much faster on the Sony at the same iso settings? Does that mean If you match the shutter speed on both cameras. The Sony could have the same brightness image with lower iso???

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Compared to what? The EOS R actually showed a brighter image at equivalent settings.

[@valshelkunov6127]

@@DustinAbbottTWI the setings were equal but shutter speed was at 1/2000 on eos r and 1/3200 on sony

[@chrisrout1654]

Great comparison Dustin, nice to see an actual test between the 5D4 and EOSR, as you say absolutely nothing in it with the EOSR squeezing that little bit more sensitivity from the sensor. The other comparisons definitely show a slight exposure difference between the EOSR, it seems almost a 1/3 of a stop lighter than the Fuji and Sony, but as you have pointed out, you will only see these differences in direct lab comparisons, out in the real world at lower iso's the cameras would be hard tell them apart, apart from the subtle colour differences.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I think that is very true.

[@colinjudge1261]

The fuji is truly remarkable. This generation of cameras leaves us spoiled for choice, it's basically impossible to go wrong!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That's pretty much the case.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

@Warren j I wouldn't go quite that far (some of the Sigma DN lenses, for example, are very good), but I do think Fuji has benefited from choosing to stick with APS-C and really developing purposefully for it.

[@colinjudge1261]

@Phil Jones65 Wouldn't that mean that they also understate their lens' F-Stop value? In Dustin's tests, the Fuji is indeed a little darker, but it's also shooting at a slightly higher shutter speed. That makes the difference in apparent exposure far less than "almost a stop".

[@Be-Es---___]

I think the Fuji beats the Canon EOS-R easily.

[@cooloox]

Colin Judge This was a more controlled situation. In real world dark situations the noise levels at ISO 6400 on the X-T3 are virtually unusable, as Jared Polin showed in his real world review. In a more controlled situation where there's more light than in a real situation where you'd actually need high ISOs - high ISO performance always look way better.

[@IntothewestOkotoks]

Another great comparison Dustin! I’ve been sitting on the fence to (finally) add a Canon EF 70-200 2.8 III to my 80D kit, with the plan to eventually update to the EOS R in the next couple years...however, I wonder how long before the RF mount becomes the standard for Canon (not a fan of adapters, even if it works flawlessly), and other APS-C mirrorless cameras like the XT-3 look amazing and seem to offer more bang for the buck. Aside from doing “test” shots just to see how far I can push a sensor, I rarely shoot above 3200 iso anyway (even in dim arenas getting hockey shots at 1/1000 @ F2.2). Ugh...the choices, lol. But, I do wonder with all the advancements in technology if FF is really necessary in most situations given the extra cost - and equally important to me - the weight. I get the DOF is going to be different, but I’ve turned out (at least in my opinion) very pleasing bokeh with the 80D. Look forward to more of your reviews on the EOS R that might help in making up my mind!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Hopefully this series will help you. The X-T3 might actually be a compelling alternative to you, as the lenses are smaller (for the most part) and the AF is now pretty great.

[@sarataslimi7547]

have some questions how can i ask you ? may i have your email ?

[@MichaelRungPhotography]

I'm also shooting with an 80D and am eyeing the EOS R as a possible upgrade to full frame in the next 9-12 months. Love my 80D, though.

[@mjaymilkyway]

exactly what i've been looking for on youtube right now. this time i'll break my rules, first commenting before watching but hey thank youu Dustin once again for such info. Helps me alot with my decision on which to go with.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Hopefully you feel the same at the end!

[@kahnjugaming]

This is great! I love how you took your time with this. I favor contrast over noise, so Fuji did awesome here. Thanks!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Interesting feedback, and a reminder that people value different things in image quality.

[@laurent5455]

Hi Dustin, for me Lightroom is not the best software to get the full potential out of Fuji RAW files. If you have not already done it, compare the images once in Capture One.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I've been down that rabbit hole before with Sony, and I didn't find much of a difference. I'm pretty good at getting good out of RAW files in Lightroom after years of experience.

[@bretthill7503]

Dustin Abbott I respect that but Sony and Fuji files are completely different. Regardless if the files for Sony in capture one look better than Lightroom by a little, the Fuji files are not only better by a little in capture one, but It’s night and day. Fuji files and Lightroom do not get a long whatsoever. Whatever you think you are getting out of the files in Lightroom, I can promise you that you’ll get 30% better files in capture one

[@cactustweeter2890]

Great video Dustin.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Thanks

[@yedijaluhur]

do you use studio lighting? i think real life noise performance is when you are photographing real scene without any studio lighting.. because for my daily use, even iso 3200 on my 5D4 is pronouced unlike your example, also depending on the scene whether its complete dark, or there are any light.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Yes, the scene is properly lit, and that is somewhat necessary to produce a useful (and static) end result. I've used my 5D Mark IV at all normal ISO range settings for shooting events and weddings and think it is very useful. Nailing proper exposure is much more important, though.

[@yedijaluhur]

Dustin Abbott yes, im completely agree about nailing exposure.. i’ve seen many photographer use lower shutter speed instead, but their result comes out with slightly blurry image. I’d rather choose using safe shutter speed with high ISO (or change to fix lens) for moments, rather than slow shutter speed with cleaner images.

[@V8rgr8]

When I read other reviews, it puts doubts in my head that the censor is “inferior “ when it really is ok. That’s why your here, to set things back into perspective.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Seeing results for yourself if much better than just hearing the hysterics that often pass for "objectivity" on KZbin.

[@Simon-SBL]

I think the difference between the 5D4 and R is that the R has on sensor (of course) AF and that may cause some electrical interference which is more noticeable when you push the sensor as the two sensors seem pretty equal otherwise... All other things being equal 1:1 is often interesting, but mostly doesn't matter if you are printing or downsampling, unless you are making huge prints, you're maybe only printing at 25-30% of resolution and even less on a high-resolution sensor like the 7RIII, so that will always have an advantage within its generation. There really seems little to pick between them, apart from menus and ergonomics and Canon seems to have that pretty much down.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Simon, you're right that a lot of times these tests highlight realities and differences that many people won't experience. I had one person comment yesterday that they still don't shoot over ISO 800...ever (which I think is ridiculous with modern cameras). Even though I know that cameras are capable, however, I still have somewhat of a mental ISO 6400 limit.

[@Simon-SBL]

@@DustinAbbottTWI I'm a bit of an advocate of, using the ISO you need to get what you need to get, there are times I don't get below 800, 1600 seems to be the high ISO sweet spot, 6400 is mostly my ceiling but sill break it if I need to, I often encourage people to venture above the lower ISO's, a bit of noise is far less damaging than poor sharpness from shake.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I will use the whole native ISO range when shooting events, as the size that those photos are shared at makes it nearly impossible to see noise even at very high ISO values.

[@Simon-SBL]

Yep, that's the huge benefit of downsampling, even for most prints up to about 15-20".

[@inquisitivesoul8978]

Nice comparisons. Thank you.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

My pleasure.

[@tkermi]

Great review, thanks!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Glad it was helpful!

[@staceymiller5046]

Great Comparison Mr. Abbott We are living in the age of great sensors.... all of these are heads and shoulders above sensors from just 5 years ago..... I have finally sold off the last of my Canon Gear and am 100% invested in the Sony platform and have no regrets, I am a wedding shooter and the dynamic range on the Sony system is incredible...... that being said the new crop of cameras are just fantastic. I think Sony getting Into the game has pushed everyone to step up their game.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I agree, Stacey. Sony has had a different approach than Canon and Nikon to a lot of things, and that has put a different kind of pressure on them, which I think is producing positive changes for us all.

[@dsu2002]

Excellent comparison video. Thank you!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

My pleasure.

[@limtattwah13]

Thank you again for this sensor war. It provide a view, for choosing. Not to the point that it influence purchase decision, but a good video and an objective comparison.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That's the point. I think there is something positive for everyone to take home now.

[@mlentsch]

The Sony appears to be a whole stop faster?? What accounts for that?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

You'll have to be more specific as to what test you are referring to.

[@mlentsch]

@@DustinAbbottTWI referring to the shutter speed difference between the a7riii and EOS R for equivalent exposure

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That could be a metering difference, but could also be a difference in light transmission from the lens itself. I've noted with the Samyang lens I was using that it has very high light transmission. It's hard to have a completely controlled test between different systems because of the lens factor.

[@mlentsch]

@@DustinAbbottTWI Oh, I see now that it wasn't the exact same lens - I initially thought that you were adapting the Canon Samyang to the Sony. Thanks!

[@peasantrobot]

@@mlentsch "adapting the Canon Samyang to the Sony" that would have been better from the test perspective.

[@momchilminkov5722]

It's very impressive how good all of these cameras have become. At ISO 12800 the pictures look better than my old Rebel's at 1600 lol...For me, it shows how baseless are the complaints about "gear". I bet this new Canon R provides more as a camera than 99% of the it's "critics" have talent and skill to use.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I would say that's a safe assessment. The quality of these cameras' sensors if very high. Some are better in an area than others, but they all have their strengths and are all very capable if used well.

[@analogshooter]

Comparing 5D IV and EOS R you need to take notice that the EOS R has a newer processor - DIGIC 8 vs. the DIGIC 6+ in 5D IV. And that the EOS R is cheaper than the 5D IV. EOS R has a new lensmount which gives you the possibility to use both RF and EF/EF-S lenses. The EOS R outputs 4k, 10 bit, 4:2:2 through HDMI (crop :-( buh - but so does the 5D IV). EOS R has a better buffer, 47 RAW vs. 21 on 5D IV. EOS R is lighter. You see a representation of the exposure in the EVF. Tilty and flippy screen on EOS R. A lot of plusses for the EOS R. As a happy owner of 5D IV i also see downsides on the EOS R, primaryly button layout and ergonimics. Only one cardslot. But i'm considering adding a EOS R to my camerabag for all the plusses i see. Or mayby wait for an higher end mirrorless from Canon. Maybe higher mpx, maybe fullframe 4K, maybe high speed shooting, maybe, maybe, maybe :-) An sensor with a mpx-count quad of 4k UHD (3840*2880 (4:3 for photo) would be 7680*5760=44,3 mpx) would be optimal for 4K downsampling. As i own the glass for Canon, a change for Sony or any other brand is a no go. But nice comparison.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I too am waiting for the high resolution version. If it could have a similar burst rate to the 5D Mark IV, I would probably drop both the 5DIV and 80D and just shoot the mirrorless in crop mode when wanting more reach or testing APS-C lenses.

[@esphotography6217]

I believe that the comparison must be done with the same exposure (Shutter speed and Aperture). This comparison is not fair.

[@zackchoy1969]

Great video!~ Dynamic Range vs High ISO

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Dynamic Range comes at the end of the week.

[@JimBailey]

Thank you Mr Abbott

[@leonphotography1009]

The best in the game. Keep up the good work

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Thanks!

[@rustamhaydarov5403]

Great job. Thank you

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

You're welcome.

[@dimitristsagdis7340]

I'm amazed with the Fuji. Maybe next time put it side by side with SONY A7RIII uncompressed and downsampled. I'm really impressed by how well the m43 sensor holds up against to the rest. It is looking very tempting esp. as the lenses are a bit lighter.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

The Fuji is actually an APS-C sensor, not M43.

[@dimitristsagdis7340]

Dustin Abbott Tnx for putting me right on this my bad. Still pretty impressive all the same.

[@PECHERSTORFERgerard]

Great Video again, thank you so much Sir ...

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

My pleasure.

[@MarceloTezza]

Eos r has the reds more towards orange, looking at the umbrella, i thought the 5d looked better on all shots. And microcontrast.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That can be a white balance issue. They don't handle white balance identically.

[@ChillWithMe_musics]

@@DustinAbbottTWI It's very interesting, because as soon as a human person appears on the scene, Canons tent to shift towards red/brown, so I was actually surprised, that in this case the Canons provided yellow shift (that is VERY typical to Sonys). I can't wait for a skintone comparison with AWB for these cameras, with both fixed and AWB, that would be so amazing!

[@peasantrobot]

@@ChillWithMe_musics The Canon and Nikon fullframe mirrorless blueprints (the skeletal) are from Sony. The one card limitation (for the first year) is by per contract. Remember that Sony was first to announce the Canon and Nikon mirrorless cameras. For Canon to compromise on the Color Science (something that was mastered with the Kodak help) it might very well mean that there is a penalty performance (forced to go with Sony algorithms?)... and this is huge! Probably one of the main reasons why they postponed their pro camera instead of doing like Nikon... If there more horse power is needed to transplant the "DSLR Color Science" intro mirrorless, then the price will be higher. And yes, it is about horse power, remember that Fujifilm was not able to provide Acros simulation in older cameras. Why is it possible with DSLRs? Probably because all the focus businesses are managed by a separate sensor, so more processing power available for "picture styles"... Well, this is my personal take on this. *Now my questions:* Is this Color Science helped by an additional physical filter on the sensor? As Kodak was doing for Leica? That might explain in part the loss in dynamic range (light sensitivity)? Or is this taken care by the special Canon sensor in itself? Now the drawback in using the Sony blueprint... it might be easy for the Sony to steal the Canon Color Science algorithm. In this regard, is the yellow shifting a Canon defense strategy? Until they get their own processing (with their own processors) sorted out?

[@xMotivationFix]

Man, crop cameras nowadays are doing great!!!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

They really are, actually.

[@michallispl]

I am always impressed with the meticulousness of your reviews :) I can only imagine how much work it requires to prepare a video like this. Great job!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

These type videos are a lot of work. Trying to sort all the data and then present it in a timely fashion is the big challenge.

[@michallispl]

@@DustinAbbottTWI And than you still have got time to respond to comments ;) I am really impressed! thank you for your work!

[@V8rgr8]

Yes, good point.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Not sure which one, but thanks :)

[@AbrahamArthemius]

Probably just me but i think the metering in Canon is a tad bit overexpose compared to the other at 0, about 1/3 overexpose compared to Fuji or Sony? ----- Honestly all these cameras are all producing great images coming out of it with differences we may only see when we pixel-peeping.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That's very true - they are all capable of producing great results.

[@MichaelRungPhotography]

I find my 80D tends to overexpose by default. I usually bring it down 1/3 to 2/3 of a stop. When using auto ISO, Aperture Priority, etc. I have to do the same via exposure compensation.

[@TheDouglasTrevino]

The Sony A7Riii is great, but also $2900 compared to the Canon EOS R at $2300. I have been shooting Canon APS-C for years. I have no investment in full frame lens. If I jump to full frame, I would sooner go with Sony. The $600 up-charge is definitely worth it.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

In this case, I would agree. The EOS R has some great things going for it, but Sony has a more mature system at this point.

[@metphmet]

I am sorry but I don't see more contrast by Fuji . I see a different exposure . Adjust the exposures and it will be a valid comparison.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

At the most you are talking about 1/3rd of a stop - which isn't going to radically change the end result.

[@AliRastafa]

even with samyang, winner is sony a7riii

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Hmmm, I hope you are taking the right thing away from this. This isn't about sharpness or depth of field; it is about high ISO performance. The lens is somewhat irrelevant to that.

[@slowmography1747]

@@DustinAbbottTWI From my experience every lens shows different noise patterns / the grain looks differently at the same ISO. So in my opinion to a certain level ISO performance depends on the lens that is used. At least it has an impact on the visible result. My 70-200 G F4 Sony is excellent in this regard. I wonder if anyone else has made the same experience. Even manufacturers claim some lenses to deliver better performance concerning this topic (if i am not mistaken).

[@adamaj74]

Fuji was the cleanest. After applying noise reduction to all the camera's images, the Fuji would look the best, as far as sharpness, detail, contrast, etc.

[@MarceloTezza]

Comparing a FF vs an apsc first the depth of field will be different at the same apertures, if they are at the same distances. You seems to have missed this, the shots were aligned on the left but not on the right, there's a big difference in angle it seems, not really comparable, i would discard the FF vs APSC on this one.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Depth of field is irrelevant for this comparison. This is about ISO performance, and DOF has no bearing on that.

[@MarceloTezza]

@@DustinAbbottTWI it has when you compare detail, there is a moment where you crop on to the umbrela unfocused with eos r vs fuji... Anyway.

[@6gwilliams]

Hands down the Sony has the best sensor. Not surprising as Sony has the world leadership in image sensor technology. I am happy I switched from Canon to Sony and these EOS R cameras are not good enough to entice me to ever go back. Cheers

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I don't think your point is incorrect (though I do favor the color science from Canon), though I think for most people (who aren't shooting at the limits) the differences between these cameras is somewhat irrelevant. They can all produce fantastic images.

[@cooloox]

Gerald Williams The Sony was just as grainy until downsampled, so not that much greater at all. For me, Canon images look better and that's what matters to me. We each have our own tastes. I'm not interested in specs, I'm interested in what appeals to my eyes, which camera feels better, has the nicest controls and menu system and requires the least amount of effort in post. We all need to stop carrying on about what's best (that's too subjective) and just buy the camera(s) we prefer. There's certainly no evidence that photographers buying cameras from brand x consistently capture the best images. The best photographers capture the best images and could do so using any brand of camera.

[@cooloox]

Dustin Abbott Nicely stated and your last sentence was spot on. That's why buying a camera today is an exciting time. You buy the camera which feels best to you, takes the most pleasing images to your eyes and requires the least amount of editing. Whatever camera you buy will capture great images, so you can't go wrong.

[@AcidicDelusion]

Fantastic performance by the fuji

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I think so, too. They probably could have pushed it a bit further, I think, in the native ISO range, and still have gotten usable results. At least 16,000, and maybe 25,600.

[@AcidicDelusion]

@@DustinAbbottTWI really makes you think of full frame is necessary anymore

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

The one thing you can't solve is the depth of field issue, so you really do need large apertures on your lenses if you want a shallow DOF look.

[@mammutzahn9408]

Fuji's iso values are actually quite off the norm. As you can see the images of the xt3 are typically less bright than the images of f.e. the Eos R at equal aperture, shutter speed and iso. So you basically have to use a 1 stop higher iso value on the xt3 in order to get the same image brightness as on other cameras. This effectively cancels the noise advantage of the Fuji cameras, making them equal to most of the other apsc cameras right now....

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

It's the EOS R that is the aberration at higher ISOs, actually. That will become even more obvious in my next episode. It is tuned differently, and almost acts like it is functioning on a different base ISO (80, perhaps).

[@0ecka]

Hey Dustin. You really shouldn't listen to what the "metering is asking for" when doing this kind of comparison. For example, you just gave a little less light to the EOS R (by using faster shutter speeds) and then accused it of having a little more noise than the 5D4 ... Dah! While the R samples actually look a bit darker. You should always use the same shutter speeds for providing the same amount of light. Balance the EV by adjusting the ISO (which is the most inconsistent exposure parameter among cameras) and aperture (if using different lenses and/or camera formats). Also, for comparison, you should downsize the higher resolution samples to match the lower resolution samples. Otherwise the whole thing is pretty much useless.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Thanks for your input. The problem is that no matter what methods I use (and I've used all the ones that you suggest), people will accuse me then of biasing the results in one direction or another by doing so.

[@0ecka]

@@DustinAbbottTWI Sure they will. But this doesn't change the fact that there are right methods and there are wrong methods. Let's use the right ones, please :). We must educate people, instead of spreading ignorance and misinformation. And I would gladly help you doing that.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I think my point is more that there isn't necessarily a "right" or wrong way as if you can remove all the variables and get a truly scientific result. There is compromise involved in every approach. By the way, I've also found that using the other methods (like you suggest) doesn't actually produce a different result in a meaningful way. It doesn't. One variable that you suggest that might be of more value is adjusting aperture to equalize histograms. Since I am not really examining sharpness, that's one way of asserting influence that wouldn't bias the result - though people would go crazy when they saw different aperture values.

[@0ecka]

​@@DustinAbbottTWI Trust me, there is the right way, the lesser evil. You are right, aperture values have little to do with sensor performance, specially when using the "sweet spot" aperture values. The method choice depends on the subject that is going to be examined. There's no one way to do it all. People going crazy shouldn't concern you, they are going crazy every day, for no reason, regardless :). Let's not try to bring peace to the world via a camera review :). World doesn't want peace. World needs education. People are going crazy because there are so many contradictions in photography communities. They think that there is no right and wrong and that they can choose what to believe from a pile of mostly wrong ideas. Photography is not a religion (well, maybe except Fuji :D), it is science. Photography is a great tool for lots of things, including going crazy.

[@mrmdpgh]

Why do the Canons seem to have such poor detail compared to the Fuji and Sony?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Don't read too much into that. This episode is not about sharpness. You are perfectly capable of getting highly detailed images out of any of these cameras. It could be the basic amount of sharpening each camera has by default.

[@moonstriker7350]

EOS R and 5d Mark IV have the same sensor.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Perhaps, but that's not the whole truth. It has a different processor (Digic 8) and a different implementation of the sensor due to the EOS R design. Bottom line is that the sensors behave similarly but not identically.

[@mma171]

The Fuji camera is a good camera if you like the Fuji color. For me that is a deal breaker though.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Interesting. What is it about Fuji color that you don't like?

[@mma171]

@@DustinAbbottTWI I'm of the opinion that most photographers are in one of two camps of which neither is right or wrong. You either want your photos to document realistically what the human eye sees or you prefer to have an artistic vibrant version of reality. To me Fuji has the most artistic or "unnatural" colors of all the camera brands. I'm not sure why that is scientifically. Adjusting color in photoshop or lightroom can probably nullify the whole color issue but I'm to lazy for that. Maybe I just don't have enough knowledge on the whole situation and I'm just talking nonsense. I will say that even though I'm used to Canon colors that I do find myself appreciating the Sony colors though.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

What's interesting to me is that I see Fuji color as being more similar to Canon than Sony, actually.

[@peasantrobot]

@@DustinAbbottTWI :) Even more interesting, is that Christopher Frost, that is very accustomed to Canon colors, can't get the Fujifilm X cameras colors the way he wants - he finds himself better working with Sony colors than Fujifilm. Weird, right? As for me, I am towards anything that looks like film emulsion (Canon, Fujifilm, Olympus).

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That's interesting. I find it takes time with any new system to learn how to get the most out of the color. I'm getting close to being there with Sony now.

[@ABullet520]

I have to say, the Canons both of them are the clear loser here. The Fuji images were better, the A6500 was the worst but also the oldest crop sensor compared to the brand new EOS R so hard to really knock the Sony there. The A7RIII clearly beats the Canon. The easy winner for me is the Fuji, price and image quality are amazing and it is essentially $900 less than the Canon. I don't really shoot above ISO 12800 and hardly ever shoot at that. The only real advantage the Full Frame has is DOF which has become way to over-emphasized. You can get the excellent 56 mm 1.2 for the Fuji and I don't need a shallower DOF than that, but even if I did I can get 0.95 lenses and does anyone really need a shallower DOF than that? At the end of the day, the low light performance of Canon Full Frame is no better than APSC. The cost of Full Frame lenses that compete with the Fuji lenses is insanely more expensive. Sony forces their crop sensor shooters into full frame glass which is more expensive than Canon or Nikon. I just can't justify the cost difference compared to advantages that in the real world are only going to be noticed by people pixel peeping on the computer. I have shot Canon since film, I like Canon and really wish they were still competitive but I am now waiting for the Panasonic full frames and after that will be leaving Canon for something else.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

People have been saying for a while that Fuji is very enticing when you consider both cameras and lenses and what you get for your money.

[@chukolna]

So. Im not crazy. Fuji looked superb. I cant believe my eyes. Though it may just be me because im watching on my ipad not big monitor. I wish Dustin said couple words at the end about which one he liked the best, and which was worst.

[@michaelmckee3490]

So funny that people now say that FF has a depth of field advantage. For most of photographic history a greater DOF was considered an advantage. And honestly, in most photography that's still true. Unless you are a pro portraitist or wedding photographer, you won't need razor thin DOF. Even then, a wedding pro still needs a lot of environmental shots that benefit from the wider DOF.

[@KB-wb3xh]

I have to agree I was surprised to see the XT3 retain much more detail at its highest ISO than the others, I think the debate versus FF is over. And let's not forget it's about pixel pitch, sensor technology, firmware etc, not about the actual sensor size.

[@cooloox]

ABullet520 I think you're kidding yourself. This video didn't even come close to showing real world low light situations where high ISOs are truly needed. In those real world situations the Fuji is a flop at ISO 6400 and keep in mind you're not even really getting ISO 6400 on a Fuji when it says 6400, so that makes it worse still. The EOS R is a lot better in these situations. Also, watch a comparison with a native lens on the EOS R - it's tack sharp and considerably more than an A7iii, as Tony Northrup showed in a side-by-side comparison. You're delusional if you think a Fuji X-T3 matches an EOS R in low light, it's not even as good as the X-T2 (watch some comparisons!!) which is way behind any FF camera at high ISO performance.

[@stjepanjina]

too bad that there is no comparison with nikon body :(

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I have done a previous sensor comparison with the Canon 5D Mark IV and D850

[@augdietrich1316]

So Sony wins high ISO, but do we really use 12800 ISO in everyday picture taking, If you have to own a camera I'd pick the R, I've owned Fuji(X-pro2) and Sony(a7ii), Fuji for jpeg, RAF is whack, Sony not durable, 6 months of ownership required 2 trips to a 3rd party service center in NJ, My 5d ii ran 65,000 clicks and it only required cleaning from real Canon Service Center in Irvine, with a fast turnaround, I won't comment on the video, since I never use it. I don't really understand what's up with the sensor wars, if a camera can execute the exposure triangle correctly then it's cool. I love all camera brands, each has its own weaknesses, the IQ is my only concern that's all.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Hi Aug, with all due respect, your argument seems to boil down to "ignore the areas where Canon is weak because I don't care about those things" and "rule out the other brands because of my experience with a single camera (not even the model being tested)." You may not value high ISO performance or dynamic range, but as a frequent event shooter, I certainly do. Pick the camera you want, but the reason I do these kinds of comparisons is that different people value different things. P.S. I've been using a Sony a6500 for more than two years without issue, and a a7r3 for a year and a half that has never seen a service center. I use Fuji X-T3 RAF files all the time without issue. Camera makers do have the potential of improving their weaknesses. I also own three Canon cameras, BTW. I'm not saying any of this as a brand loyalist...just as a realist.

[@pawelbrzozowski3899]

Pictures from EOE S R and 5D are exposed differently. You haven't matched depth of field on FF and cropped sensors. You enlarge different sized images by the same percentage - they should be scaled to common output. This comparison is worthless. What are you even doing?

[@Lesterandsons]

Everyone waits for a quantum leap from canon sensors, not refurbished good enough ones... fuji, nikon, sony makes the show, frustrating

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

It's certainly true that Canon does trail in some metrics (like dynamic range), though I would argue that I still find Canon color the easiest to edit.

[@Lesterandsons]

@@DustinAbbottTWI everyone seems to agree, yes. But canon must stop staying behind "look our cameras are the most pleasant to use and give good results out of the box". They have to build new "motors". And the mirrorless fight just begins...

[@Lesterandsons]

I think that canon could sell a lot if they launch low price good lenses, it has always worked well for the brand and the customers

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I don't disagree there. There are some areas that Canon simply has to catch up on.

[@lsaideOK]

I notice a difference in the reds between the Canon's and both the Fuji and the Sony. The Canon's seem more yellow/orange while the Fuji, in particular, shows reds that are deeper and truer. I don't know what the actual color of the umbrella was but the differences seem significant to me.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

It's a bright, deep red (the umbrella).

[@lsaideOK]

Do you see the difference? If that is the case, I like the Fuji's rendering far more than the Canon's.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

The Fuji color is definitely quite good. I haven't worked with it long enough to determine if I prefer it to Canon.

[@lsaideOK]

Red is I think the most difficult color to represent well. The red channel with the Bayer system blows so easily, the greens and blues can be underexposed creating an imbalance that can be corrected in post but with an investment of time. I look forward to maybe a video on that aspect of sensor differences.

[@peasantrobot]

What he said! :P

[@VaughnFelixMusic]

Too many pixel peepers, not enough photographers out there...

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That's pretty true on KZbin, but I think a lot of photographers still enjoy photography without getting too caught up in gear. But, with all due respect, you might have chosen the wrong video to make this kind of statement. The whole point of this type of video IS pixel-peeping.

[@cooloox]

Dustin Abbott Pixel peeping is great if you shoot in real world situations truly requiring high ISOs. You made all of these cameras appear to be significantly better (and closer to one another) at high ISO performance than they are in real shooting situations. I've seen a low light shot from the X-T3 that was utter garbage and it was ISO 6400. Admittedly, this can happen on any camera, depending on the actual lighting situation.

[@renev6919]

But only a little bit more ^^

[@Be-Es---___]

Sensor wars and 50% is about cameras that use the same sensor. Really? Btw, Fuji wins on image quality.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

At that point, there was some serious curiosity as to whether the sensor from the 5DIV and the one in the EOS R were actually identical. People were interested in that; obviously you aren't.

[@aklaasvandalen207]

War? On youtube everything is a war. Never use ISO higher than 800..........

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Really? You must not shoot indoors much. I routinely use ISO 6400 while shooting events.

[@christianvolkner2028]

Flashing with Gels or tripods might be a way to go around the issue of shooting high iso😁

[@stephen7627]

Yeap ... i still think eos r sensor is a downgraded 5d4’s .... but rendered better due to newer cpu , great comparisons tho .... i think either canon will surpasses sony one day , or uses sony sensors with canon color science 😅

[@AbrahamArthemius]

Aren't Fuji sensors are basically Sony's but they modified it into X-Trans? CMIIW

[@stephen7627]

Abraham Arthemius never heard such story , it might be true 😄

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Interesting thought. I don't see anything about the Fuji sensor that reminds me of Sony, though.

[@stephen7627]

or that . . .well never know

[@AbrahamArthemius]

@@raminolta though i think accuracy doesn't mean that most people prefer it.. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIO0oaibetuVY7c

[@fotochips5300]

5d color is more accurate

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I would agree

[@JPS4inLA]

No shooters use iso 12,800-25,000 on a nicely lit room or sunny days I have no idea why Shooters wouldn't do a high iso test in a dark indoor or nighttime scene...it blows my mind bcuz they are giving inaccurate representation of what the camera is capable of.(example EOSR has terrible color banding at night using 10k & up)EOSR at 12,800 at night looks unusable but your like > Hey look the image looks ok at 12,800 or even 25,000 👉MID DAY👈 absolutely absurd.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Hmmm, if you had bothered to watch until the end before handing out judgments, you might have seen a number of real world shots in low light conditions. And your statement is not even close to being true...and I suspect you've never shot with an EOS R.

[@vesimittari]

All conclusions in this video were wrong. You can’t compare different things when your baseline is not precisely same. I hope, the lenses were in enough equal. Why do you use different shutter speeds? Everybody knows that underexposure causes (more) noise. There is room for speculation in your way to compare. The video was not science, it was nonsense.

[@stevepa999]

Extremely disappointed with you. What is it with camera reviewers and they are afraid to show the Sony in a bad light. The comparison should have been with the A7iii not the A7Riii. Such a comparison would have shown the Canon EOS R superior. Why are you afraid?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

First of all, this comment is just inane. Secondly, when I compared the a7iii to the a7R3, I found it superior to the a7R3 in high ISO performance. So, if anything, if I had happened to have an a73 here (which I obviously didn't!), the results would have skewed even more towards the Sony.

[@stevepa999]

@@DustinAbbottTWI Show me one camera reviewer who has compared the Eos R to the A7iii in terms of photo resolution. It is all video and high iso, dynamic range. In other words the strong points of the A7iii.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

This whole episode is about ISO; it's right in the title. No one misled you here.

[@stevepa999]

@@DustinAbbottTWI That is correct. My assumption is that on a later date, you are going to be doing to image quality as well. IMO comparing Eos R to A7R3 is a waste of time. You are comparing apples to oranges. Apples should be compared to apples. ie, Eos R vs a7iii .