Serial Killer Fangirl Becomes a Murderer

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Today's solved true crime case is about Shaye Groves - a woman whose obsession with true crime would turn deadly when she stabbed her boyfriend, Frankie Fitzgerald, in her home.
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Disclaimer: I mean no disrespect to anyone that I talk about in this video. Everything in this video is publicly available information that myself and my team have found and compiled into one piece. This video will cover especially sensitive topics, viewer discretion is advised.While we make every effort to fact-check our sources and make sure all our information is correct - no action should be taken in reliance upon the information in this video. Please keep the comments respectful and kind. All opinions in this video are mine alone.
Thank you for watching!! Xx

[@EleanorNeale]

Use ELEANOR to get 55% off your first month at Scentbird sbird.co/46c4GrY

[@nicolnoort9623]

Hey you didnt link the last parfum i saw not a big deal but i thought i would mention iy

[@Parappasnickers]

Hi

[@loribrid9632]

I really enjoy your work, but sometimes you make comments like nothing is wrong with being overly obsessed with somethings isn't wrong. It absolutely is. Watching too much violence conditions one to feel like nothing is wrong with it, if I am wrong then you wouldn't be discussing this person's life up too whatever horrible crime was committed.

[@JDuece2009]

thanks for this hunny!

[@iicaitlin]

@@nicolnoort9623she did ❤❤❤😅😅😅😅

[@anonymoose116]

Hey y'all, don't murder. Murder is bad.

[@YesIlikebananasSo]

thank you for this message anonymoose116. many needed to hear it 🙏

[@cokehater7396]

oh dear god, I'm so sorry 😢 i didnt know... what shall i do for penance?

[@ManicMangz]

M'kay

[@rooroo1704]

Whoa. You don't say. I had no clue

[@kitsuee9695]

It's bad mkay

[@rottenghost]

“I’m gonna use all my knowledge to make this the perfect crime” * proceeds to do literally everything wrong and mess up miserably*

[@JoeysMagGoth]

Right? Exactly like Jung Yoojung

[@aquariussolaris2492]

No such thing as a smart criminal

[@vamppooni]

​@@aquariussolaris2492no such thing as a smart caught criminal*

[@ASHl33164]

@@vamppooniyeah, you nailed it

[@deviljayden.06]

@@aquariussolaris2492there is such a thing as a smooth criminal tho 😮‍💨

[@zulafreeborn3251]

all I can think about is what the hell her daughter must have been through living in the house with this psycho woman and the boyfriend through all the violent sex and drug use, arguing and physical abuse... I hope the child is okay :(

[@carolinegladwell7855]

Exactly!!!! I'm assuming social services were all over this if she was under a mh team!!! That child had at least been fostered out or under child protection and about to be removed... Absolutely disgusting and I wouldn't be surprised if the girl ended up in mh services due to her trauma... Awful!!

[@esjadaze]

I kinda hope her roomate lauren would have it in her heart to adopt her daughter

[@beth2837]

Childs father has custody of her

[@Nym-s]

Both of the little girls

[@Cherish-l0ui5e]

​@@carolinegladwell7855Ashley has custody of her and shes happier then ever with her dad and she didnt understand what happend nor remember, shes a beautiful little girl her dads done an amazing job raising her after everything that happend

[@katuni08]

Thank you for mentioning the line between idolizing murderers and having an interest in the unknown. As a psychology major, I have always had a fascination with true crime, but finding creators who treat the subject matter with respect has been a challenge. You do such a good job researching your topics and giving your opinions without glamorizing the horror.

[@Tillyflop]

agreed completely

[@strxwbxrry_420]

sneegsnag is a streamer with a degree in criminal psychology. He has something called “crime time” where he watched true crime videos and commentates on them. He helped get me back into crime time, so Id recommend him. Although, he doesn’t look into the cases themselves. He either already knows about it or learns through the video hes watching (if you’re looking for someone else as well)

[@Yeah_You_Thought]

Misery Machine is pretty respectful and they don't glorify the killers

[@RenAsterion]

Casual Criminalist is a great channel for true crime. Simon and his writers like to make a point of bringing attention to the victims and try to honour them as best they can.

[@gracecaroline2725]

Gabulosis is another super respectful true crime researcher on youtube. Highly recommend!!

[@Amzzyyo]

PSA : If you know someone with a "favourite" serial killer..... run. This is not normal behaviour.

[@dylanagoblin9298]

@@kate-pureI think it’s such a red flag if people focus on the murderer than the victims, you’re so right. I feel like there are obviously grey circumstances where victims become murders in self defence (completely different), but other than that if someone has been killing in cold blood that’s not something to glorify it’s so sad, I’ve been watching true crime since I was around 12 and yeah never have I said I have a favourite serial killer, if I were to pick one it would be a fictional character like Jason/Freddy Krueger/ghost face where there aren’t any real victims and it’s a franchise! 😭😭😭

[@biracial247]

Nah

[@maryrodgers7898]

I use to know a couple who loved the movie Natural born killers. They knew the movie word for word, which kinda freaked me out a bit.

[@Ash-jz7nj]

When I was teen I would say this but I was a bit ignorant. Now that I’m much older I prefer to say I find this case interesting, but I never idolized the murder.

[@user-gn6jc2yn9c]

You'll be surprised, but a lot of people in the True Crime community actually has a "favorite" case/criminal where they would obsess with a case/criminal for a very long time. There were even people who would go to home towns of the killers to interview those who are related to the criminal as some sort of hobby. It's definitely a red flag.

[@damiana.9439]

I’d like to drop in and say that as an actual Goth, our community condemns people like her. Being alternative in general and loving horror films/true crime does not make us murderers. Being a terrible person does. I’d also like to thank you Ellie for explaining BDSM incredibly well, particularly the part about CNC. It is a vital rule in the BDSM community that consent is key and without it, it’s abuse.

[@TheLurkingGhostxoxo]

I love this comment, perfectly said

[@duerremueller3609]

Came here to say exactly this!

[@sourgummiez]

It's really gross people identify themselves with or even say there's a community about sexual issues like that's people's personality

[@daniellewillis2767]

​@@sourgummiezjudge much?

[@Mindyaown3]

@@sourgummiez sorry, could you please explain what you mean?

[@FallenAngel8612]

As Bailey Sarian says, in regards to serial killer idolization: "GET BETTER HEROES"

[@AimeeAimee444]

There must be a psychological reason to idolize serial killers. I couldn’t imagine having this mindset. It’s interesting to watch docs and why someone becomes a serial killer. To obsess is a different matter.

[@carolinegladwell7855]

Get.. Better.. Idols!!!

[@saymyname2417]

​@@AimeeAimee444- The reason for so many people being into serial killers is the ongoing idolatry by the media. It started with Jack The Ripper and it never stopped, whether it was real crime or fictional. And then the same media point the finger at the people for being fascinated with what the media has hyped for forever. An old trick. Works for other stuff, too. It's that simple.

[@janai5074]

Choose 👏🏼 better 👏🏼 IDOLS 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 lol😮 Thanks for reminding me, I'm an episode behind on MMMM 💖

[@fayrose9695]

Get👏better👏idols👏

[@Lil_shdow1847]

One thing no one ever realizes with these famous serial killers is no matter how much you study how to not get caught in the end you will be caught just like them 🤷‍♀️

[@jennaxoxox4821]

Exactly! If you are going to emulate a serial killer, pick one that hasn’t gotten caught.

[@Ninja-qf6te]

@@jennaxoxox4821lol, how would you know about a killer who hasn’t been caught? How many killers who haven’t been caught do you personally know ? 😂

[@Ninja-qf6te]

Infamous. Not famous.

[@jennaxoxox4821]

@@Ninja-qf6te zodiac has never been caught.

[@weedwitch666]

@@jennaxoxox4821but we do believe we know who it was, but he’s passed away.

[@Elvoalven]

I am no psychologist, but I do wonder if she identified herself with these killers at least partially because so many of them also had bad or downright horrific childhoods but they survived, so to speak, and even went on to “take back control” by doing awful things to their victims. So the people we see as monsters she sees as heroes, so to speak. I’m sure this could be better articulated, it’s just something that occurred to me.

[@666ydney]

that's a very interesting analysis, it's definitely plausible. thanks for sharing :)

[@angierose111]

i totally see that yeah! she might have seen them as almost “made up” for the horrible way they grew up. like you said taking back the power of the situation. some times people who do horrible crimes like murder feel the need for that control and a way to feel like they have stability. great comment! :)

[@bloo6131]

ooh yeah that’s some food for thought. Thanks for sharing your observation!

[@Sharpe1502]

I kind of disagree. I don’t think she saw them as heroes because they overcame obstacles. I think she idolized specific killers because she’d fetishized her trauma and specifically fetishized power dynamics. Unfortunately, some people who were abused grow up to be abusive themselves and I think Shay was one of those kinds of people. I don’t think she was capable of empathizing with other people or sympathizing enough to consider people’s feelings and emotions. I also think the selection of the serial killers to hang on her wall indicates that it wasn’t about people’s upbringings. Other than Aileen Wornos, most of the people didn’t have THAT crazy of childhoods to warrant them turning into the people they eventually became. Most of them had normal upbringings if not privileged and had early warning signs that they were violent. Moreover, the majority of people on her wall did not just murder people, they were serial rapists. Even Hindley.

[@dakotawillman1347]

I was thinking about this as well! My forensic psychology class that I am taking covered this case this morning.

[@jenecraw6798]

Shay: Deep dives into true crimes do’s and don’ts of murder Also shay: Tells ppl and brags immediately about her own murder

[@AmyAberrant]

The narcissism took over

[@derplez]

😂

[@user-ux3qu7mr2m]

​@@AmyAberrant Narrsistic people are interesting, no matter what the result it ....... They meant to do that. Lol

[@primulamiguelshuggana2054]

/facepalm

[@NoseyNuNu]

She couldn't help herself 😩

[@StephyM.C.]

I have an opposite reaction to true crime, I almost become paranoid of everything when I watch true crime. I need to watch something else that will make me not think there is a murderer around every corner or down every shady hall.

[@loveyousomuchdear]

Me too. I've been watching true crime for about 5 years but as time went by I realized more and more how there could be one (or more) of those monsters around me and then I became very paranoid. I have to check the locks, doors, cameras many times before going to sleep

[@Readwithmiaaa]

Same😂 I get scared that they’re coming to get me next and it freaks me out

[@GrungeGalactica]

I remember someone’s hinge saying “who’s your favourite serial killer?” As a prompt once and it’s like, they’re obviously all completely deranged, how could you have a favourite?! It’s not the same as liking a Disney villain ffs 😬

[@tezzanoia]

Yep. And there's a huge difference between having a favorite and having a case that you find most interesting or intriguing or something like that. And I feel like sometimes, in some cases, people think it's interchangeable and therefore ask "what's your favorite" when they actually mean "the one you are most interested in for some reason". In her case though… yeah, I'm afraid she does mean favorite

[@JadeBlakeVideos]

Robert Maudsley 😂

[@oliviaparry1836]

I had a friend who was on hinge and had a conversation with this girl where she asked him this and I told him to run and he was like 'you have the luxury of being picky' - excuse me??

[@elishavarivka8923]

@@tezzanoiaMost interested in Bundy. I watched videos of several different interviews that he did and I watched how he would tap into the mind of the person in front of him and find out what it was they wanted him to blame and what caused him to be the way he was and how he would play them. He would do it perfectly. It was completely deranged and unhinged how intelligent and insane he was at the same time. He eventually would lose patience because they were blaming other things for why he was a killer, and he was very proud of what he did, and he would begin to become irritated when they’d say he was a serial killer because of pornography or something else. So I find him the most fascinating because he could get into someone’s head and it was very scary.

[@stinkykitten1598]

Fr, I think the question that should be asked instead is “which serial killer do you find most interesting?” Because having a favorite literal murderer is so weird to me. Like it’s okay to find them interesting but not for there to be a favorite💀

[@sammy5914]

The fact that some of her idols killed children and she had a child herself 😳

[@glamfern]

Right?? Like why would you have a portrait of Myra fucking Hindley in your bedroom if you’re such a protector of children? Make it make sense 🙄

[@biracial247]

Everyone was a kid once, what’s ur point

[@sammy5914]

@biracial247 my point is she idolised people that killed children while being a mother that is just shocking to me you would think those type of people would sicken her being a mother herself

[@ghxsty_]

@@biracial247 the fact that you don’t understand this is concerning

[@Medusa_The-Bard]

​@biracial247 the fact that you really thought you had a point there..

[@dragonfeet9832]

As a casual true crime fan, I hope I never lose my sanity and end up like her and to use my knowledge for the better of my life and others

[@KawaiiBeth]

I use my knowledge to hopefully not become a victim myself!

[@sophiemunro]

@@KawaiiBeththat is my thought process

[@selma8337]

“i hope”?? this doesn’t just happen randomly, there is evil intent behind it

[@FatalDyZr]

You’re probably too nervous to ask for more ketchup 😂 I don’t think you’ll snap one day

[@Stella-wb9uf]

Same! I hate it when anyone gets hurt so it sucks to listen to it, but the psychology behind it is so interesting for me

[@melody-13]

Heads up SA survivors if you’re reading this before watching the video: I always really appreciate Eleanor’s trigger warnings in the intro. I’m of course appalled by every crime she covers but find it very interesting, eye opening and informative. I’m usually okay getting through them but this was a rare instance that I couldn’t get through the whole video. If you are a SA survivor, especially if it was domestic SA, I strongly recommend skipping or taking breaks. This one was a lot. 😢 as Eleanor always says take care of yourself!

[@spideysepic]

i had to take breaks w this one and i never do that lol

[@wutarrwedoin]

Jesus Christ...

[@buzzypeterson1147]

SA? Sex abuse? You’re really posting messages to EVERYONE due to the couple who are actual sec abuse victims? That’s what you feel is necessary? Oh god, I hope the two women who have gotten abused and the 70,000 who claimed to have been heard that!

[@samtrujillo794]

As a recent SA victim, I thank you a lot for the warning.

[@jordangann7438]

thank you very much.

[@GothToad]

I’ve been putting off watching this one because it happened literally around the corner from me. I’d seen her around town. My other half’s best friend’s girlfriend was one of her closest friends. It’s absolutely terrifying to me how close to home this case was.

[@frida4183]

So her first thought after committing first degree murder was to cover it up and get herself an alibi, and yet she didn't immediately get rid of the CCTV footage???

[@brittenymiller8005]

Not only that but video chatting someone showing the person you just murdered how is that logical thinking not really keeping it under wraps.

[@makeitrainnnn]

she’s an idiot. what kind of person who wants to hide a crime scene would go around telling people? she could’ve at least put her dagger back 🤦‍♀️

[@internetstranger-]

her narcissism took over. she probably even thought she could get away with it since she's 'learnt' so much from the true crime books and docs

[@millieturner3257]

I love how Eleanor is so empathetic/sympathetic towards everyone she talks about, she addresses everything so carefully and respectfully

[@blackperson4433]

It almost made me angry like…😭

[@-Dazai-]

She doesn’t deserve empathy

[@millieturner3257]

@@-Dazai- that is true I won’t lie, but my point is Eleanor is such a caring person towards everyone and anyone

[@sleepysmartboy6287]

As someone with a similar background to Shay , I found myself connecting to the perpetrators more than the victims as a teenager. I was struggling with homicidal ideation and the only people who publicly had those feelings did terrible things amd it felt like that was all that was possible. Like a horrifying destiny. When I was 19 I got so scared of this "inevitability" that I had a plan to take my own life just to stop it from happening and stop myself from hurting people. Thankfully that attempt ended with me getting counseling, I took a long break from true crime and got back into it for the reporting and victims, it's now a dark curiosity rather than an obsession and I have not gone back to that dark place. It's important to check why you're interested in something while you consume it, because it's educational, not something you should find a role model or connection in. And I think a lot of - especially very young - true vrime fans forget this

[@Im_here_lol]

Glad you’re better, so good that you had check to reality and knew it was wrong, ik these things take a really long time to heal from and never actually heal so I wish you the best and happy life

[@Annoye]

Hope you get locked up, you’re crazy.

[@romeowandrainbow1040]

I commend you for being so open and also commend you for choosing love and light instead of darkness and hate I wish you all the best 🤍

[@Nessainthebuilding]

That’s amazing. I’m so glad you were able to pull yourself out. As someone who also has mental health issues please remember it’s a continuous battle. Don’t ignore the signs if you go into a downward spiral. It happens all the time. I don’t know you but I’d like to say I’m proud of you and I hope you’re proud of yourself.

[@AmyAberrant]

Considering she was a stan of Myra Hindley, I don’t think she was angry that Frankie may be a pedophile, she was probably more angry that he may be cheating. Also I think the girl who lied about her age may have been trying to catch a predator!

[@romeowandrainbow1040]

That’s such a good point I didn’t think of. Plus I think Richard rameirez was a pedo too. She just got angry as he was cheating even though she was. Typical maniac narcissist.

[@soot9145]

Ted Bundy and Richard Ramirez also raped and killed children, so she definitely didn't care

[@Rae0811]

I loath serial killer admirers almost as much as I loath serial killers themselves.

[@rachelgeorge9250]

So true... There is a difference between wanting to know about what goes on the serial killers mind and wanting to be them

[@truecrimecaitlyn]

ellie.. with you saying who would believe someone committed suicide with that many stab wounds you have to look into ellen greenberg! she was stabbed 20 times including to the back of her head and her death was ruled a suicide. it’s heartbreaking, her family have been fighting for her so much!

[@clairestephens4680]

I just came on and posted the same thing!

[@xKaylove]

I came here to say the same thing. Couldn't believe that case. Horrific.

[@NatalieTheSnail]

WTF?? 20 times in the BACK OF THE HEAD?!?!? Imma have to look into this. What a horrible miscarriage of justice

[@abbyharbour5310]

Please cover this, Ellie!!

[@maddywest2058]

Literally that was my thought as soon as she said that. Such a huge miscarriage of justice for a victim that would have made a positive difference in the world.

[@joefreeman3087]

The crazy thing is that despite all the hard work you've put into this video like every single one you do, it's a shame that, to Shaye, this is probably what she ultimately wanted. To be covered on a true crime channel alongside some of her "idols".

[@MrsStormtrooper]

Just like the wannabe-columbine cases, this one almost irks me more than the "spontaneous" murders. It's so sick, gross and pathetic, especially since a lot of kids think being a "psychopath" (term isn't used in psychiatry anymore in some reasons because of this) is cool and edgy.

[@yojomma685]

@@MrsStormtrooper “psychopath” is used in psychiatry/psychology to describe a personality type. What IS true is that it’s not a diagnosable disorder, so no one will be diagnosed as a psychopath or sociopath. But the term is definitely used in the field to describe people with those types of personalities

[@weedwitch666]

@@yojomma685yes it’s most likely anti-social personality disorder, bpd, histrionic personality disorder, npd there’s so many and it makes me upset because these people ruin it for the rest who are diagnosed with these things

[@CookieMonst3r]

⁠​⁠@@yojomma685 “psychopath” and “sociopath” are also colloquially used to refer to individuals diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder

[@yojomma685]

@@CookieMonst3r I know what they are used for lol what I’m saying is in the field of psychology, by professionals, the terms are used to describe people with those personality types, as they are personality constructs. They aren’t disorders that can be diagnosed. Also, technically, one can be a psychopathic person without aspd (not sociopathy though)

[@KarynHill]

My past trauma is why I strongly prefer to watch solved cases, not unsolved ones. Sure, I watch some unsolved ones, but mostly I skip those. I want to hear how someone was caught and punished for their crimes. For me, "true crime" doesn't necessarily mean murder. That's a lot of it but I just like seeing criminals get caught and sentenced. And it's why I like to watch body language experts. I want to be able to avoid problematic people.

[@Teahmoss]

Same here ive been watching the murder tapes recently some people survived and some are car accidents others are murders and all are solved.. I like seeing justice served... I also only watch old crimes like for example the kidnapping of Jamie Closs was so tragic as I live in Wisconsin and it was on every news station.. its just scary.. but solved crimes you already know the end result

[@gacktist00]

I love those interrogation videos. I like when they found out they got caught and there is no escape

[@AbianahAlmeida]

I hate unsolved crimes because it makes me feel so angry.

[@JadeBlakeVideos]

Yes I'm the same, I find it too frustrating now to just watch more people get away with heinous things 😢

[@JadeBlakeVideos]

​@@AbianahAlmeidasame!!

[@a_good_rat]

Read the title wrong because my brain decided that a fangirl who was a serial killer made more sense than a fangirl of serial killers💀

[@annyarchist]

That's how I read it too

[@0003alp]

Same!!!

[@jenniferstewart9012]

How many killers will be inspired by this channel

[@YesIlikebananasSo]

@@jenniferstewart9012no more than the ones inspired by the multitude of other true crime docs and media released over the past 2+ decades

[@glowup978]

😅same

[@butterflyslinky]

I would obviously never murder anyone, but you would think a true crime junkie would know that if you want to get away with a crime 1) you don't kill someone when you have cameras filming everything and 2) you don't tell anyone else what you've done.

[@bloodpixie777]

Yeahhhh, she was stupid. Drugs probably didn't help

[@Shhh11159]

Thanks for the tips x

[@princessfifi4206]

​@@Shhh11159lmfaooo

[@amandamlondo7700]

@@Shhh11159nigga what

[@rustypancakes3151]

And 3) you don't do it in your own home

[@user-zv6ld2tf2p]

I LIVED WITH HER IN THE REFUGE IN 2018!!!!!! she was so scary and isolated from her daughter, we would all have to take her in and look after her cause shaye just wouldn’t care about arisa, that little girl was so beautiful and happy she really doesn’t deserve any of this :( Very angry and negative person shaye was.

[@alexiarachel]

Im not sure that you should have named her child

[@ttrashcandy]

@@alexiarachelfr wtf

[@badjinn4521]

​@alexiarachel so is she the only Arisa out there?

[@alexiarachel]

@@badjinn4521 obviously not but the child’s name hasn’t been mentioned in this video or the media for a reason. Minors identities are protected in cases like this

[@silentnightmare9467]

@@badjinn4521no but if u know the mother last name u could figure out the child last name

[@Ay-ux8fl]

“LIKE ALEX RUSSO WITH HER WAND” is too funny, i love where your head is at

[@666ydney]

as someone who found out an ex bf was creeping on an underage girl & took action, i can understand her anger. but there are other ways to make these creeps regret it that don't involve murder 😭

[@sharongrigg5336]

Just to reiterate it was proven he wasn't a child predator at all, the girl he was talking to only joked she was 13 which freaked him out so he immediately blocked her. She wasn't, she was over the age of consent but this was the end of their conversation.

[@darlinqt]

​@@sharongrigg5336but still a minor? Or what

[@JB-bm1to]

​@@darlinqtlegally, yes a minor but over the age of consent. But he blocked her anyway. So he was a creep and a scumbag, but not a pedo. OP I agree. I helped get some of the pedos from the churches I was forced to grow up in, thrown in jail. Including my own brother. They deserve to pay, and never be where they can hurt someone again. But I would never kill someone. Unless the hurt my own children. Then all bets are off, but I'll accept my punishment.

[@miyumixxx]

@@JB-bm1toLegally a minor, no matter the age of consent. Age of consent only applies when you are in a relationship with someone who is ALSO between 16-18 years of age. He was a grown adult, therefore even if she was over the age of consent, it is still pedophillic by law if he was to act on it (which he did not).

[@JB-bm1to]

@miyumixxx do you just repeated what I said. Cool. Except you got the age of consent part wrong. As I said, he didn't do anything so he's not a pedo. But at 17, in their province, he wouldn't legally be a pedo. It would be gross and we'd all agree, but legally no. If you'd like me to give you the law itself I can. You're confusing Romeo and Juliet laws with age of consent laws.

[@tasmyndixon-lale8694]

This individual tried to fight me at a house party when I was 14 and she often tried to become a part of my friendship circle. She’s always been a nasty piece of work! She would be real vile to Lauren and she’d get away with it because Lauren idolised her for some reason. I never liked that girl and I’m glad my home town is now rid of Shaye

[@rx500android]

Oh my god, I’m truly sorry that you had to even come in contact with her. She’s horrible

[@k9z_cally415]

i’m glad she’s gone too, it’s disgusting what happened she should never be getting out or she should never be allowed near her kid again.

[@redwoodrebelgirl3010]

Damn! I'm so sorry you've had to deal with her. 💔

[@valentinelr4649]

You described the non-consesual consensual relationship perfectly, no worries. It's exactly that. The mention of the after care and of the safe words shows how well you researched this. I know it can seems weird but it's basically role-playing, just like you said. Nailed it.

[@orimomo6406]

mhm that and the addition of just having limp play, having consensual sex while one partner is drunk, asleep, not in control but had given blanket consent

[@joshdeveaux6936]

It is weird and unhealthy to “role-play” rape.

[@PensndThoughts]

​@@joshdeveaux6936its more common than you think

[@sweetembrace6706]

@@PensndThoughtscommon doesn’t mean normal or healthy btw

[@sophialw]

@@sweetembrace6706it is definitely not for me, but “normal” is relative and based on personal principles. It may not be “normal” for us but it might be for others. As long as it is consensual, I don’t think we should judge people on it.

[@oktia2114]

I love how respectful you are when telling these cases

[@distractedbycats1089]

I am 40 yrs old. Growing up w/ Unsolved Mysteries, Dateline, 20/20, etc, I have always had an interest in true crime. It's not bc I'm obsessed with the acts of the villains; I'm interested in-- as Eleanor said-- the psychology of them. For me, I use these cases as a study guide to learn potential patterns of the criminals and apply it to my everyday life. Bc of this, I have learned certain red flags to watch for. It has gotten me out of bad situations, only later to learn that the person(s) went on to commit heinous crimes (such as murdering their next girlfriend).

[@stoppit9]

I'm convinced this is why vulnerable groups like women are drawn to this stuff

[@katfayegarrett3872]

💯when people ask me why I watch true crime...that's what I tell them.

[@Dogfurforever]

Me too. Women are prey, sadly. Thus any intel on how to sidestep being said prey, is logical

[@ardenalexa94]

@@stoppit9yep, had a guy make fun of me for it, but I watch true crime to learn how to be safe and learn the psychology behind the killers. Sure has helped me stay out of some creepy situations.

[@spacecatmeoww]

I relate to this! I use my knowledge of true crime to become a more observant and informed civilian ,to watch out for red flags in my and my loved ones' lives and as a lesson on what not to do in life.

[@terryprice4560]

Hi! I’ve been a kink educator for 6 years and I’ve been in the scene close to 10. I’m not personally in the CNC scene but very aware of it. I think you did a great job explaining it. Safe words, aftercare, and long conversations before any type of scene is vital to a good bdsm relationship. What they had wasn’t a BDSM relationship. That’s abuse

[@hsisnothere]

i’m reminded of the phrase “kink negotiation”, which sounds weird at first but it really encompasses what a healthy sexual encounter should entail. i’d also like to say that being a kink educator sounds so badass!

[@AquaticPrayer]

Go Find Jesus

[@confuzedpenguin9974]

​@AquaticPrayer why is his kink interesting

[@moonsigil]

I really have to wonder what the "abuser" in a CNC scenario is even getting out of it. I can see why the "victim" may want to process their feelings in such a way, but I'm sorry, every single man I have met who's into being the dominant one in "CNC" has been a walking red flag.

[@kingdionysus1867]

​@@AquaticPrayerhave you considered leaving the conversation that we're having here

[@MissBuyNLarge]

that self defense story really has "and then he ran into my knife...he ran into my knife 10 TIMES!" type energy

[@vickyfromtheblock3385]

First case I’ve watched that lives of people I know and cared for were actually affected by it. Makes me remember that all the other cases I’ve watched have people around them who suffered too. It’s pretty humbling.

[@jademarieeeeee]

I was hoping you’d cover this case at some point. It happened 10mins from my house and shocked so many. My partner went to school with her. So heartbreaking💔

[@hsisnothere]

ohmygod?!

[@kimberlyhood4095]

I hope your partner wasn't one of the many who bullied her, that part of her life helped make her into what she became.

[@jademarieeeeee]

@@kimberlyhood4095 I think that was a ridiculous comment to put and assume. But no he wasn’t, my partner has never bullied anyone. But also being bullied doesn’t make it okay to murder. I’ve been bullied most of my life, but I wouldn’t go and take someone’s life because of it.

[@ballisticgamingwolf6998]

Live down the same road as her too. I remember getting the bus the morning after and seeing the police everywhere and people in white hazmat suits. The house was boarded up for a while after. Absolutely heartbreaking.

[@bethgoode1227]

A lot of people get bullied but it doesn't justify turning into a bloody murderer??@@kimberlyhood4095

[@Soma_109]

Eleanor is truly stunning. Edit: Also the sensitivity and reverence you treat the victims and their families is refreshing.

[@MommaSullens]

She is always very beautiful, but particularly stunning in this video! I agree Soma 👍

[@HeavenScent72]

I consider myself a true crime enthusiast at one point in my life obsessively watching nothing but true crime programs, & reading materials that cover true crimes & serial killers. And, as a true crime enthusiast & a student of psychology, I can say that the way you process the information you're inundating your brain with is directly related to the state of your mental health.

[@annaelisavettavonnedozza9607]

Of all the serial killers to have on your wall, those are the most basic (except for maybe Sutcliffe & Hindley). I’m surprised she didn’t have Gacy on there as Pogo the clown. It’s like the “Live, Laugh, Love” collection of murderers.

[@confidence.is.silent]

I can’t stop thinking About the children of everyone involved… it terrifies me knowing they have now a murdered, a murderer and a mom who helped cleaning up a dead body as their parents..

[@Lauriej117]

The children are who concern me. None of these abusive, violent, substance abusing unstable people, should have had children anywhere around them. The children should have been removed from the situation at a very early age. Poor children.

[@lizh6420]

I became a true crime fanatic during the pandemic due to the fact that my then partner stated that he wanted to murder me! As he said that he was conpressing my windpipe, which scared me terribly! I wanted to learn what signs to look to look out for and how to leave evidence should that happen. I'm not with him anymore, but am still afraid of him. I live in New Zealand. I have a protection order against him and he is tresspassed from the town where I live. The law can only do so much to protect me. I want the world to know about what he said. So far to date I'm OK.

[@melody-13]

Omg!! I’m so sorry for your ordeal. 😢 glad you are still here and I wish you all the best in healing 🤗 -a fellow trauma survivor

[@nerfworthy218]

glad you're ok... please take care of yourself

[@rowena6756]

I’m so sorry, stay safe and take care okay, you got this ❤

[@redwoodrebelgirl3010]

God be with you, hold you close, keep you safe, & bless you. ❤️ I understand.

[@lizh6420]

@@redwoodrebelgirl3010 thank you, I go out of my mind with stress sometimes, but I want the world to know what he said.

[@likelystory9660]

Eleanor, I adore your mix of dedicated research, compassion, sweetness, and just silliness. Comparing a horrible killer to Alex Russo was just so random, I love how thoroughly you tell a story.

[@wealthyroseblossom]

I laughed so much at the Alex Russo reference!

[@hamsaessam]

it feels weird that she might have watched your true crime videos writing notes

[@itsthatonechickagaincallth7843]

I just want to take a second to acknowledge the extreme increase in quality of your videos. You and your editors are doing so well and as someone who's watched you for years, I'm proud.

[@lazicraft6503]

I swear you’re my favorite person to watch when it comes to true crime. Between you and Danelle Hallan. The way you and her express your opinions respectfully while also telling the story is amazing and makes me so interested in it.

[@TedTalksDrag]

If you haven’t heard of Stephanie Harlow I HIGHLY recommend her content, she’s super reliable and respectful just like eleanor and Danelle

[@bethmcculligh1930]

I believe you would love Danielle Kirsty & Bailey Sarian

[@jneedsanap]

Kendall Rae is also great, and does a lot of work for/with families of victims and organizations that help victims of crimes, children, etc.

[@tillytota1940]

My other faves u guys should check out , Rachel Shannon, hailey Elizabeth and mollie westbrooke

[@symoneb1049]

kymbyrleigha is also amazing if you like really long videos w a lot of details !

[@dormantlime215]

To clarify on the pagan/witchcraft usage of ritual knives- you rarely actually cut anything with a ritual knife, and if you do, you may have a seperate knife for that purpose. Some people have specific knives and wands that they use for different practices/spells/prayers/what have you, which is why there would be multiple. Could also simply be a collector (I have like 8 tarot decks but only consistently use two of them for readings, I just think the others are really cool looking). Wands and ritual knives are different in a way to those inside various practices but for the sake of comparison to an outsider, they are similar; they are used to help "focus energy and intention" during spiritual/religious sessions, to "call the corners" (bring in the cardinal directions represented by basic elements of earth/air/fire/water), etc etc. They can also be used to cut herbs/fruits/paper/etc for spiritual practices. This period of history many have phased out the practice of animal/living sacrifice entirely, or been converted into something more humane like actually using the animal for food and materials (which in many practices was already the case). More remote regions who hold old traditions are more likely to do that. All of this is to say, a ritual dagger in someone's home is akin to seeing a wand. It's a benign tool in the majority of modern communities, and likely has less to do with her being a murderer and more to do with personal interest in blades & paganist rituals. And anyone who would murder someone with a ritual knife in the year of our gods 2023, well... has some other issues going on there.

[@pigcatapult]

My dad introduced me to true crime when I was eight, but I didn’t know the genre was called true crime. Those were my forensic science shows. Pretty sure Dad saw how much I loved reading about mummies and how archaeologists can get information about them, and made a very accurate prediction about my interests.

[@JayBiagini]

bro i wish i knew abt this case last year- this is exactly what i did a paper on for my AP seminar class and she is a PERFECT example of someone being affected of the romanticization of violence/crime in media, ESPECIALLY serial killers

[@nordictruecrime]

She had a lot of psychopathic traits… Manipulative, taking advantage of people, controlling and violent. Not really super surprising that she ended up a murderer in my opinion. Super sad though.

[@divichand511]

i really like how yuou talked about the dangers of becoming too engrossed in truw crime and checking in with yourself. Eleanor is so real for this. Bc it is sick to idolize the killers. I like she was so blunt about it.

[@tab_fails]

Hello I’m a pegan. Since you mentioned daggers and questioned their use in rituals I’m here to help. It’s mostly used for cutting herbs, spices, plants all that sort of stuff and carving sigals into candles or wood. You can also just have it as a protective item against negative energy or cast protection circles

[@alexandraobscura]

This case kind of reminds me of the Jung Yoo-jung case from South Korea where a tutor was murdered by a true crime obsessed fan.

[@user-vm8zz3gp6q]

yes. The same level of obsession. Yet both of them made so many poor choises in performing those murders. Like how can you be so obvious?

[@JB-bm1to]

I remember that one! & she was soooo stupid and obvious! I mean thank goodness she was an idiot, so she got caught. RIP the innocent girl who died. But Yoo-jung was like "so this is exactly what NOT to do? I'm gonna do it and be surprised I get caught the same night"

[@spud6195]

The fact she was so controlling over her friend who later became her flatmate/roommate makes me think of the possibility of her relating to some of the serial killers she read about - how often have they said they liked to control their victims/take back control of their victims. Not only that but many serials killers had a pretty crap childhood and she did too so again that could potentially make them feel relatable to her.

[@livsmitty]

Eleanor, you described consensual non-consent really well for someone not in the kink community at all! Thank you for being respectful and knowledgeable before speaking on it. You really do rock!

[@simplyros3]

She really did! I'm part of the BDSM community, and its refreshing to see someone who isn't educated on BDSM explain a very intense kink in great detail, so glad to see this.

[@haleycarson8147]

it was incredibly responsible of Eleanor to say what she did at the end of the video - love her

[@mjstudios101]

It’s very surreal to see you mention places like Havant and Leigh park, where I grew up. Everyone I know knows her, her tattoo artist is my friend. It’s rocked everyone in the community and people who look like myself and Shaye have received disgusting comments about being goths/wiccans. It’s been awful.

[@krystalponsford4099]

Me too x

[@jaredchris8054]

Hello Ellie from Michigan, USA! Seeing you and this channel grow the last few years has been crazy. Ty for the coverage you give to so many victims!

[@glauvie]

Hi fellow Michigander! I’m in Southwest MI! Longtime Eleanor appreciator as well!

[@jenniferstewart9012]

Howdy I'm from Southern Michigan

[@jenniferstewart9012]

​@@glauviehowdy Michigander I'm from Lansing I can see the capitol from my house if I stand on my roof

[@peachybun]

hello fellow michigan folks 🥰🖤🖤

[@laineycarson7314]

Hey from near Ann Arbor!!

[@BelladonnaSmirk]

I wish more women would ask why men involved with BDSM want to actually hurt women in the first place.....

[@AisforApple1346]

I asked. He said it makes him feel “bigger”, more powerful. To have absolute control over someone else is a feeling you cant describe.

[@ghost_gurrrl]

thank you ellie for being so respectful when you talk about these stories and reminding people that these are real humans who lost their lives 🖤

[@sepnyte9422]

My heart went into the floor when I heard about her being bullied about having hearing aid. I got mine when I was 12 and I was, without mercy, being bullied for it to the point that I now refuse to wear it. I'm 28, still can't wear it and I'd rather have bad hearing than ever wear it again.

[@thehyenamakeupslayer3819]

😢 im sorry friend! So sorry that happened to you.. that sucks

[@LoreleiCatherine]

I’m so sorry on behalf of humanity you had to deal with that. Anyone who would tease you over that has their own issues they’re takin out on you and it’s not okay 😩 big internet hugs and healing from that bullying. I got bullied for a lot of things all my life. I’m 34 years old and people STILL try to bully me because I’m mixed or because I have frizzy curly hair, or because I have 5 facial piercings or because I have tattoos or because I’m a single mom because I’ve never been married because I have chronic health issues and I could so go on but eff em man. Their darkness can’t steal my light I am who I am. I’m wishing you peace love and healing! ❤

[@wonky_shoebox7514]

I have epilepsy and I was bullied well into college. I was doing social care; I hope the people doing that course with me then have changed since. I was 19 and dropped out, unable to deal, but I'd be able to stand up for myself now

[@jenniferstewart9012]

So you allow idiots to take away your ability to hear??? Wear your hearing aid as a huge F U to those idiots People can only make you feel bad if you allow them too

[@tinykatmus]

Oh, so sorry to hear that! Maybe make it more like accessory? Lovely colour or add some glitter, something to make it cozy to you I know it's hard, but you and your comfort life must be the priority I've being bulliend in scool for wearing the glass for the first time BY THE TEACHER lol)))so started use it again at age of 27 only F@ck them all, if you need this to make life comfy, you should wear it ❤️

[@blamehope799]

as a victim of SA multiple times throughout my life and as someone who’s also into BDSM. consensual non consent breads predators and enables super harmful coping mechanisms for victims. it’s essentially self h*rm for victims of SA and partners never deeply understand and usually end up committing SA in new relationships

[@blamehope799]

if you get off on the idea that someone isn’t into it and/or resisting, there is something deeply deeply wrong with you. i’d also like to add i’ve worked in the SW industry before so i consider myself fairly educated on a lot of kinks but this goes on the major no no list. i see this worse than age play or race play.

[@dollyanne_1993]

So weird to hear about this... This case is local to me and we had some mutal links. It was such an insane time for everyone in our area.

[@cheaneullederosier9962]

I was selling at a craft show in Milwaukee, WI and the booth next to me was selling a mug of DAHMER!!! I told her that was just not cool, especially in the city where he literally murdered people... She put it away but had wondered how it would be received and was going to "feel out the crowd". 😑😑😑 you shouldn't have serial killer merch anyway.

[@xladyfayre]

I don't know why anyone would want that. I understand mugs that say I'm probably watching true crime and stuff like that. But who in the world would want serial killer merch? It's so weird.

[@packnetadaija]

As someone who is a true crime fan, these cases make me feel sad because it’s really sad for the victims involved, but it also makes people think that true crime fans are similar or will end up like her. That’s not the case at all.

[@TheDNDWizard]

Thank you for doing the research on CNC scenes and relationships. You explained it very well!

[@chilljelloton2089]

The way her aesthetic is so similar to mine makes me feel uncomfortable and self conscious on so many different levels

[@kimberleywebster5492]

Here I am scrolling through KZbin looking for something to watch and Eleanor saves the day ❤ I hope you are well Eleanor xxx

[@Iris.missy.]

Exactly!

[@mandibartlett79]

You have the cutest giggle and i love you describing yourself as sounding like an old lady describing the youth. You are so adorable!

[@annelisez]

The only serial killers in my house are Michael, Freddie and Jason during October 😂

[@Idk-df4oq]

OK, but I actually did smile when she said when I met my new boyfriend I’m so happy for her.

[@sansmehta]

So excited to see Eleanor’s videos! She’s gotten so regular lately and we are here for it! The details and compassion with which she narrates is chef’s 😚!

[@ce-ec4936]

Daggers can be used in pagan rituals like casting circles. The process of creating a circle can use a dagger, wand, or just your finger. You place your energy into the object that you are using and use it to draw a spiritual circle that you can do whatever you intend to do within that circle. I hope this gave you an idea of why she would’ve had the dagger.

[@Beojkkoch_Capybara]

I’m pagan also, if an athame is used to cut anything, whether it be paper or skin, it must immediately be disposed of, or deeply deeply cleansed.

[@lalla2862]

Thank you Eleanor!! You make down to earth true crime content, you never disrespect or glorify. I really appreciate you in this genre. And it's true what you said about re calibrating every once in a while, I'm gonna do that too. ❤️🇫🇮

[@afinalgirl]

this is wild, but thank you for always presenting these events so respectfully 🖤 i loved your wrap up

[@cassedits1379]

you did a great job of explaining cnc ellie, thank you. a lot of people immediately demonize it when they don’t understand it and i really appreciate you for being very unbiased on the subject :)

[@bloobl3207]

cnc is so wrong on so many levels

[@eilidhcathcart5024]

CNC should be demonised. Do you think it’s the consensual part that’s being sexualised?

[@CarinaKi]

@@bloobl3207 as someone who was sexually assaulted it truly disgusts me that people would want that.

[@E.V.-il]

The guys who are into this barely even try to hide that what they truly want is real r*pe. It's quite easy to find plenty of "CNC" forums, where they share fantasies about assaulting women on the street, classmates, colleagues and even siblings. They don't actually want the consent part at all. CNC is not a fetish; it's a compromise that they settle with because they don't want to go to prison. Paraphilias are serious mental conditions. *They should not be normalised.*

[@imogenshoesmith1665]

If it's not your thing, great, then don't do it. Why do you need to shame people for your own ignorance and lack of understanding?

[@kirstyperry9592]

As an SA survivor consent non consent is just so... questionable. I could've died during my ordeal and men everywhere seem to have this fantasy...

[@Kayliep00]

Sa survivor here too. And honestly for me the CNC has come after and ‘helps’ in a way Cause even though in the moment I’m acting like I have no control I am ultimately in control and can stop it at any moment

[@katiegoodall1215]

@@Kayliep00same ❤️

[@kryptic.korvid]

I can understand the people on the "non-consent" end, but the men that participate in it are definitely questionable. Going along with what your partner wants is one thing, but fantasizing about raping someone, especially as your ultimate fantasy, is definitely sus as hell.

[@kirstyperry9592]

@@kryptic.korvid Super sus. I would walk away asap.

[@helenbartoszek243]

The perfect solution is to go to a shop and smell your perfume then and there before buying. Support your local retail business.

[@caesarweasel]

You just blew my mind. I haven't seen your videos in quite a while and when I heard your voice I was like I KNOW THAT VOICE! Hope you are doing fabulous and SO glad to see your videos again!

[@catcorrea2997]

Eleanor I love your videos🥰. I've been following you for a while and as you mentioned I started my interest in true crime during the pandemic. I had covid and was isolated for 3 weeks, that's when I started. You're absolutely right, content like this has to be consumed in a healthy way. I personally only follow legitimate and always respectful content. I also have to take breaks, mainly because I feel like I'm starting to get paranoid😅 (that something bad is going to happen to me). Keep up the good work!

[@paigeyvonne7194]

I appreciate the way you communicate this case as always! I just wanted to pop in to mention, as a pagan, about the daggers (having not finished the video yet). In wicca specifically daggers are often referred to as “athames” and aren’t used to cut things physically but instead are used to direct energy (sort of like crystal points). Don’t hate please!! Just letting people know that might be the reason or thought behind it if you see another pagan with a lot of knives lol.

[@Emrose93]

What a wild story! I had never heard of this one before.. you did a great job of presenting and explaining things too, I always appreciate that.

[@gigixo344]

I think it’s really good & important how you mentioned to watch true crime healthily. I went through a phase of binge watching all your videos but it would put me in a really bad mental place as in everyone I’d look at I’d feel like they might murder me lol. I’ve taken a break for ages and this is the first I’ve watched in a while, but definitely important to do what’s best for your mental health. I mainly like watching yours though for your personality so thank you for putting more content on the 2nd channel!

[@diaryofarealmom3264]

I studied true crime. 1. Texts sus random text. 2. Tells everyone about it. 3. Take pictures of dead body. I don’t know what true crime she was watching. 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@isaacnewtonstolemyjoy]

I rly wanted to thank you for explaining BDSM and the nuances of consent it has (especially CNC). It is veeeery dependant on the specific relationship, but there's a clear agreement drawn out weeks to months prior to even starting. MANY discussions of consent are had, it requires *constant* communication about consent. It can drift into serious abuse, even if both parties aren't aware, so communication is the major key here.

[@rooroo1704]

Why can't people just be normal instead?

[@imogenshoesmith1665]

​@rooroo1704 why can't people live the way they want to?

[@rooroo1704]

@@imogenshoesmith1665 @imogenshoesmith1665 They can, but why put yourself at the mercy of somebody else? Risking your entire life and mental health in the process? People are so reckless and dumb when it somes to sex. Especially when mixed with drugs and alcohol. How many people were murdered or raped and traimatized for life, under the pretext of BDSM or whatever abnormal behaviors people call "kinks" ? The temporary pleasure is simply not worth it. I respect everybody's choices tho don't get me wrong, I'm just speaking for myself. Explaining how I personally feel about it. But to each their own.

[@ilovebug]

@@imogenshoesmith1665because if you get off to the idea of raping someone you’re not normal and you need help and it shouldn’t be enabled or normalised

[@WhoAmI2YouNow]

​@@imogenshoesmith1665why cant murderers live the way they want to???..... because its wrong dude

[@crystalhoskins8155]

Always watch true crime with a whole lot of WTFs and even more empathy!!!

[@louiseemson4116]

This case took place just a 5 minute drive away from my house and I remember being so shocked by what happened. I remember sometimes driving past the house where Frankie was killed and it just felt so eerie, it was actually boarded up for quite a while afterwards.

[@kaylasworld_]

0:28 seconds in and i already am GAGGING. why do people do stuff like this …. like seriously i wish i knew but what would that do? 🤦‍♀️💔💔💔 so heartbreaking

[@rickierickie9195]

I love your boyfriends set up. You should put more happy things in your background to keep your spirits up while filming such depressing cases

[@elizabuga4337]

Me too! The camera is incredible.

[@kuromimmi]

thanks to you and your team for doing good research and actually bringing awareness to big problems like this

[@kirstybrown4962]

I'm from Hampshire, always brings you back down to earth when a case is so close to home!

[@ceegee1706]

The common interest list at 21:32 was so perfectly written and delivered! Thanks for a lovely and compassionate video!

[@chimmallows2400]

I started watching Eleanor during the pandemic and I’ve been obsessed ever since 😂

[@AlizzaBliss]

I'm glad it didnt go down this way for Frankie but there is at least one case of a stabbing that is so obviously murder but was determined as suicide in the case of Ellen Greenberg. Ellen was stabbed 20x, 10 of which were to the back of her head and neck & the other 10 were to the front of her torso. The kicker here, I've read that some of these wounds were postmortem, her heart had stopped beating while she was still being stabbed. She also had a large gash on her head, suggesting she'd hit her head. This happened in 2011 and just a few days ago an appellate court panel upheld the ruling that it was a suicide.

[@jupiter_surf]

This was across the road from my home! It was mad seeing all the police and forensics there day out. Even got asked about her!

[@angel784]

Ur channel feels like a 2nd home to me. Thank you so much for your efforts elie😊💜

[@ladyrosenrot1514]

just a friendly reminder that being a goth , pagan , having tattoos listening to heavy metal , collecting daggers having piercing won't make you a k!ller. sometimes we need to remind people this so they don't mix things in their heads.

[@cup_vpn]

imagine dedicating your whole life to learning and obsessing about serial killers and when you kill one person you get caught 💀

[@jacanastasia]

Really appreciate your message at the end, Eleanor. A reminder to check on yourself is always a good thing, even for those of us with simply a healthy interest.

[@rachelahrens7478]

Hey Eleanor, great video as always! I was just wondering if you would consider doing a video on the Cari Farver case (aka “the twisted web case”). I first heard about it on TikTok and went down a total rabbit hole researching it because it’s so fascinating and unpredictable. It’s fairly recent so I don’t know if all of the legal proceedings have been resolved yet, but the rest of it is so insane that I feel it’s still deserving of a video.