Seven & Raffi Letting Borg Queen Jurati Take The La Sirena | Star Trek Picard S02E09

[@RebekahMoon]

The genuine care in Picard’s voice when he asks Seven if she’s alright is very touching.

[@Artisan1979]

2:54 you can see how much he cares about seven. They both know what it's like to be assimilated. They have that bond. But Picard has this grandfather quality about him and cares genuinely for Annika. She was a Borg longer than he was, and the road back for her has been twice as difficult. It's a miracle that she managed to shake off the rigidity of her upbringing and become more human emotionally. She's suffered immense loss in her life. From whatever happened with Chakotay, being used by a woman she was romantically involved with, to losing her adopted son. Hell, she could not even join Starfleet in spite of backing from Janeway because of the federations prejudice against the Borg even though she'd been freed. To be given her humanity back only to have it ripped away from her in order to save her life is very traumatic, yes, in spite of her knowing that once time was restored, she would have her Borg side restored anyway. But the hurt still remains, and Jean-Luc can recognize that.

[@demarcusfaulkner7411]

One who lives and another who dies. Only the Borg Queen could give such a cold message in Star trek.

[@DorothyFan1]

Well, in that case the question is who is the Borg Queen who tells Picard…”Look up.”? I now think we may well have three possible suspects…Renee, Tallin, and Jurati.

[@kurtsnyder4752]

So Renee is Schroedinger's cat?

[@wj3186]

Senseless melodrama.

[@demarcusfaulkner7411]

@@kurtsnyder4752 that's one way of looking at it.

[@demarcusfaulkner7411]

@@DorothyFan1 that's entirely possible I never considered that.

[@shazprothero7912]

When you think about it, it becomes the Borg ship we see in the first and last episode

[@draconusspiritus1037]

I would like to see even just one episode dedicated to flashbacks or something showing the path taken by Jurati as Borg Queen to build that universe of Sevens. To show what happened between her taking off in that ship and then coming back to join the Star Fleet Armada to deflect or block that big power spike or whatever it was.

[@mandelorean6243]

That would be distracting... distracting is the ending wind down... not time ti start showing a while new plot unwind then have q say goodbyes and end the movie. Now another woodside or show. A sure. But boy did people hate the new queen.. who doesn't fit and is there because she's married to the lead actor

[@draconusspiritus1037]

@@mandelorean6243 I wouldn't see it as distracting. I would see it as closure. To see how Jurati and the Queen gradually assimilated each other. Becoming more than just the sum of their parts.

[@WhisperingPeace]

I would love to watch such a series. I think it could be fascinating and enjoyable, especially because of Jurati. Or they can include their new Borg collective as part of the Federation in new spinoff series, which seems to be how they left things in the final season of Picard. I really lke all pf the charatcers in the Picard series, and would love to see them again in the future. There is unlimited potential in the Star Trek universe. They can continue on successfully with new series and characters.

[@SR-iy4gg]

So that's what we're seeing in the sky. They're not chemtrails or jet trails. They're trails from spaceships going to warp!

[@andytay5507]

So obvious, Renee the astronaut who lives, and Rene' the boy who dies.

[@LegacyArkGames]

Or the Renee who is full of anxiety and fear concerning the mission, and the Renee who made history (the history they're working to ensure) by undertaking the mission. The fearful Renee dies, the Renee who fulfills the mission lives. Maybe the Queen wasn't being entirely literal.

[@andytay5507]

@@LegacyArkGames that's a unique perspective I hadn't considered. Very thoughtful.

[@LGranthamsHeir]

3:20 - 3:30 Apparently as Guinan warned him last week, Picard's still being stuck in the past. Hopefully he'll change at some point in the finale, otherwise this new Confederacy timeline would've existed permanently 😕

[@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent]

Still think that Confed will still exist, and Will have 3 different timelines. Prime Universe Confed Independent Borg timeline

[@frakmaster69master11]

The Borg Queen/Jurati took Elnor's body when she took the ship.

[@hhh1200]

LOL

[@Robert_Douglass]

Oops...?

[@ReaverLordTonus]

She could reanimate him and put the Hologram version in him, won't that be a fun science project.

[@ensignmjs7058]

If he's in stasis she could bring him back.

[@frakmaster69master11]

@@ensignmjs7058 I wounds were fatal. La Sirena did not have the technology to put him stasis to heal.

[@rowlandbuck2703]

“At least not from us” implies the old borg are the same and still out there.

[@Sarah412100]

Well.... Jupiter

[@danielabilez3619]

Amazing in this existence all things are of two.

[@LGranthamsHeir]

0:14 - 0:36 This was a tender moment for Raffi and Seven. For a moment I thought they would kiss and make up at the end 😉

[@mikicerise6250]

They're trying desperately to get us to ship them but it's just too obvious. They just need to make it official and get on with it.

[@TheIrishRushin]

Not everything needs to be gay.

[@SR-iy4gg]

What's with people trying to paint everyone as gay these days?

[@-M0LE]

@@SR-iy4gg woke tv

[@alisonpilllover]

If you saw Episode 10.. You know what I'm talking about rn. But. Kissy kissy.

[@shanenolan8252]

I miss sevens almost robotic voice or manner

[@kerrijohnstone7588]

I hope in 3 Picard stays with the Romulan woman he’s been living with she is WONDERFUL

[@scottboomshakalaka9593]

Looks like your hope came true!

[@robertlamb7513]

I can see why seven and pecard are as good friends as they are then both have had everything about them taken from them being turned into a Borg to only be able to watch as they do to others as was done to them. To have everything that makes you you stripped from you no thanks that would be a true living hell

[@tomasinacovell4293]

I loved Ryan in BOSCH.

[@exposingproxystalkingorgan4164]

One who lives and another who dies means having two clones.

[@BladeZero238]

Or someone else in the crew will have to take Renee's place, pretending to be her.

[@johnarthurlawrence4860]

Don't forget the episode of DS9 "Past Tense" which ALSO takes place in 2024... Bell died but Sisco took his place in order to fullfil history...

[@ermericcarolissen694]

Who cares?

[@SultanOxford]

jurati/borg queen The future will have no need for a borg slayer.... at least not from us Indicates that this version of the borg queen is friendlier but other borg queens in other parallel timelines are not I prefer the borgs as being a fearsome group rather than friends.

[@harmonbrentdm]

A Rene that lives and one that dies I wonder if this is reference to Jean Luc Picard's Nephew?

[@kwondo5668]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@harmonbrentdm]

@@kwondo5668 Picard dealing with the suicided of his mother and now he needs to deal with the death of his brother and nephew from the fire that they died in.

[@andytay5507]

Of course it is.

[@lisag5002]

That end music sounded a little like the X-Men.

[@ericpowell4350]

That wig makes her look like "Cousin It".

[@dylanlewis5113]

Wonder if Riker will show up to bring them back to the future.

[@kenp7814]

Marty and Doc will do it

[@Rem-hr1uk]

the one thing about this that gits me is that there are 2 different borg races now. and have bin for a long time.

[@dogleg]

La Sirena is translated as The Sirena. So the title of this video is actually "Seven & Raffi Letting Borg Queen Jurati Take The The Sirena | Star Trek Picard S02E09".

[@dlc1119]

To boldly be more pedantic than anyone has pedanted before.

[@smacleod69]

Thought you couldn't go to warp inside the atmosphere?!

[@cb-gz1vl]

One Renee who lives and one who dies... so basically one of the girls fakes being Renee and the real Renee dies. So either Renee dies and one of the girls takes her place on the Europa mission or one of the girls die pretending to be Renee while Renee goes on the mission.

[@808bigisland]

Female Borg hive is an accurate depiction of our phone-hive. It’s a bland existence.

[@Roarshark12]

RIOS: DEY TURK UR SHIP!

[@LGranthamsHeir]

1:37 - 1:44 What exactly is Queen Jurati's mission If she's no longer interested in assimilating the known galaxy? Promoting inter-galactical peace or something 😉

[@shreddersaurusrex323]

Spreading the benefits of Borg tech with the federation and other civilizations.

[@TheNoybusiness]

Forming a community of people who want to be connected. Including the critically injured.

[@studentjohn]

In fairness, despite many other flaws in it, this is the first Trek series where I've really seen the value of a Borg Queen, both in-universe and narratively. They're more like a bionic infection anyway, so always wondered what the point of her was, but they've made it clear the Queen is a one-woman 're-build the collective' toolkit, capable of more finesse, striking bargains, and staying a Borg even when left alone. A lot of people are online hating on the idea of this queen re-inventing the Borg as assimilators of only the willing and those with nowhere left to turn. However I think it's a narrative necessity unless the franchise really is going to kill them off in the near future - and it's much easier to buy this huge adaptation of approach coming from a Queen who has seen the collective fall and then had a human viewpoint rammed down her throat, than it would be from the more mechanical-seeming collective itself. The Jurati-Queenie storyline has really saved this series for me, and this is actually a better resolution to it than I was worried we'd get.

[@thegoodwin]

Wasn't there like a "Borg Cooperative" from Star Trek online? I know Star Trek online is beta canon. Just throwing that out there.

[@Waywardpaladin]

@@studentjohn The collective in Voyager didn't seem like a bad deal. You still had your individuality, but you were also connected to everyone else. That sense of empathy made it very difficult to hurt each other or commit crime, and you had a much better understanding of each other.

[@kwondo5668]

Now this is a lot closer to the star trek that I've grown up with.

[@wj3186]

How so? 😕

[@wj3186]

@theRealIK Talking it out...with the Borg? The Borg only care about one thing. Parasitism has been their existence for millennia. How...does one individual human being halt that through a discussion when the Collective withstood the dissonant thoughts and feelings of billions of entities thousands of years? The Borg are best conceived of as a force of Nature, not a race of people. What's there to talk about? Seems to me what's actually happened is the Queen has died and exists as a set of memories. Still...why allow a composite entity in the form of Queen Jurati continue to exist in this form? Given it's a mass murderer with minimal conscience...I see nothing sensible about this. No, this isn't Star Trek...it's a rehash of Terminator (among other things).

[@theyux1]

@theRealIK To be fair trek lore was full of reasons forced assimilation was flawed, defeat by federation, the threat of a species logic bombing them, species 8472 was another reason. While they could have spent more time having the queen explain her agreement that to would have felt wrong as she is not likely to be that chatty about her decision making process. But in a pragmatic sense the desire to assimilate everything has many drawbacks.

[@Retrohertz]

Yes, please explain how. Or, are you a bot?

[@Darkside-ey5ur]

Say what now how does this the trek people grow up with mad you got to be a bot

[@cypheron3030]

I wonder how the new Borg Queen was re-assimilated in the Collective

[@LGranthamsHeir]

1:37 - 1:44 If there are two Renee Picards, does that mean the Confederacy universe will now exist permanently? I guess we'll find out next week 🙄

[@jamesgravil9162]

Split timeline. One with the Confederation, another with the Federation.

[@BladeZero238]

@@jamesgravil9162 Because one mirror universe just wasn't enough.

[@neutrino78x]

@@BladeZero238 in theory there could be an infinite number of parallel universes. In a way that's what we want...when we get to the heat death of this one maybe we can leave for another. :)

[@jim021]

@@neutrino78x You don't know what it's like in our universe. The Federation's gone, the Borg is everywhere! We're one of the last ships left. Please, you've got to help us!

[@shauntempley9757]

@@BladeZero238 That mirror universe made last contact in DS9. That happened because different choices were occurring, and the Dominion War is the last parallel events that would happen there. They were dealing with a similar large scale conflict at the time in the mirror universe, and that one they were destined to lose. It is actually important in DS9's story, because the fates of humanity in both universes rested with Bajor's relationship with humanity before the conflicts started in each because of the nature of the Prophets in DS9, and the Pah wraiths in mirror.

[@guytremblay1647]

they should make a spin off about the new borg queen

[@jasongould04]

Unfortunately she died last week

[@guytremblay1647]

@@jasongould04 you mean the actress ?

[@thomasthetans]

I personally think Reene isn't supposed to be on that mission. Q didn't make that alternate future, Picard did and Q even said it himself.

[@EdinburghMayhem]

The trailer clearly shows Q taking the real Renee away, then Tallin in the mission uniform. Tallin will die in renee's place. As there's a season 3 of Picard I doubt it will be him.

[@Sch2155]

All the new Borg should not look mechanical but like 7/ Anika. With the new collective.

[@imranbecks]

La Sirena magically appears in season 3 and Raffi is using it 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@twasarroundhere]

That was my question too! Where did it come from?

[@BEN-rf3rx]

I hope there is some kind of borg civil war next season

[@dan1986ist]

Could the borg ship encountered in episode 1 of this season be the La Sirena, traveling back to the 25th century?

[@Dorkalicious]

It obviously is

[@robertmandl9326]

If Sirena is in there - by that time it would probably either bei a auxiliary craft or has become the core of the large vessel.

[@jasonwroyal]

yeah, they caused the very anomaly they seek…..just like in all good things

[@robertmandl9326]

@@jasonwroyal Some predestination stuff. But theres still more left to reveal.

[@Migman2020]

@@jasonwroyal Yeah i want to know why the queen on the stargazer said look up to picard just before the ship exploded.. his mum died so wtf is going on lol

[@MikMoen]

I'm guessing she really meant two Picards. Jean Luc has to sacrifice himself to save Renee and ultimately the future. Well, that would be a logical conclusion but they already revealed he's still here in Season 3, so nevermind.

[@originaljackofhearts]

Maybe picard becomes a new Q?

[@SetoShadowVT]

That is a logical solution, sure we know there's a 3rd and final Season so what ever happens obviously is a resolution behind Plot Armor. What ever happens we know Q will have his powers back as well from the trailer of the finale, what he does to Jean Luc who is to say but obviously the crew return to the Present in what could be a new timeline or a restored proper Trek Timeline with the twist of The Borg on our side obviously

[@SetoShadowVT]

@@originaljackofhearts No, Jean Luc would not become a New Q, even our Q knows Picard doesn't want any powers especially as evidence from Season 1. He could make Jean Luc Human again with his disability gone like his synthetic body does.

[@MikMoen]

@@SetoShadowVT I don't think the writers understand just how much the timeline would change from a non-hostile Borg. The Battle of Wolf 359 was a catalyst for the Federation and a lot of technological advancement and doctrine was changed following. Without those battles, Picard and crew would return to a far weaker Federation. Perhaps a version that would end up losing the Dominion War.

[@davewalker8519]

@@MikMoen Although, if the Borg were friendly to the Federation, they could become allies with the Federation against the Dominion. But, yes, everything would change in the Trek timeline for pretty much every series.

[@tristandavies9597]

Why do all of Patrick Stewards lines in this series sound and look like they were filmed at completely different times to the rest of the dialogue, and also often not make complete sense next to the previous line spoken to him?

[@patrickdunnett2447]

I may have missed this, but what happened to all of "Soong's commandos" that were assimilated? Were they all either killed and/or aboard the La Sirena? Sorry if this has already been addressed. My attention.has been known to wander... 🤪

[@thomas.parnell7365]

Well sir they were transported into the walls and mostly just killed .

[@lauraleecreations3217]

❤️❤️❤️❤️🖖🌠🌌🖖🌠🌌🖖🌠🌌🖖🌠

[@-M0LE]

This show has zero STAR TREK The title says it they keep trying to tell you it’s Star Trek I T - N E V E R - W I L L - B E

[@mopedmike8317]

My question is will there be two borg queens now since she the borg queen one that from future in the doctors body another one that’s in that time frame still in the borg space I think that’s a loophole hopefully they continue in the last season

[@kbhalacy]

Watch them be the Borg that showed up in the first episode of the season

[@Dorkalicious]

Oh definitely

[@EdinburghMayhem]

So then we also know that the 'watcher' woman will die in place of Renee. Another big aw moment for Picard.

[@djsteeler69]

Wait was that a ship going to warp in a planets atmosphere, let alone in it's solar system? Oops.

[@kdrapertrucker]

Ships can go to warp in a solar system, as long as they stay clear of gravity wells. The warp slingshot manuver used in star trek 4, mentioned by Picard is performed in close proximity to a Star, which is the center of a solar system. It'd take weeks to go from earth to Jupiter Station at sublight speed

[@GenSphinx]

So they're really betting on Q to get them home now, or are they just expecting to stay in the past? I feel giving the BORG QUEEN of all things the damn ship was the worst idea in the history of all idea's. How do they truly know she was going to keep her word besides her say so? I mean seriously I felt like they where dealing with a Goa'ould from Stargate going "oh i'm totally this other person now". I mean what was stopping the queen from taking the ship up to the atmosphere, bombing Picard and their people to oblivion, assimilating the ship then taking the planet and having a 500 year tech advantage on the rest of the Galaxy. I want to love this show, but it's just making it hard for me to do so.

[@Alucia0]

She didn't need to trick them. She had already won, she could have assimilated them all and took the ship by force exactly as she was about to do. The fact that she not only stopped but showed compassion instead of dominance was indication of a change. The Borg don't trick, they don't negotiate, they assimilate and dominate. So her doing something that goes against the very nature of the Borg confirmed that she was something new.

[@GenSphinx]

@@Alucia0 she didn't have control of the ship and Picard and the others where closing in. I mean I get your point but it was still a massive risk, I mean they literally gambled with the lives of every living being in the galaxy if she was tricking them. Plus we know the queen is duplicitous, she's done it before with Janeway and Picard.

[@theyux1]

To be fair not the first time the federation gambled the borg thing would work itself out. remember the logic bomb.

[@GenSphinx]

@@theyux1 True and that bit them in the ass then, how many hundreds of thousands where killed in the battle of sol? And the billions who where assimilated in the mean time?

[@Jadefox32]

@@GenSphinx Keep in mind this is the timeline that leads up to the confederation, not the federation. So both existing is possible. The Borg's strength is bringing in new species and applying that genetic distinctives to the overall collective. They are cold and calculating, it's clear at least that the Borg ship that appeared in episode 1 of S2 was from an entirely different timeline and not a reformed Borg of the timeline we know.

[@lataviamurphy1744]

How did Raffi get the ship back in season 3, if they gave it to the borg queen.

[@quinnzyker6521]

Me: uuuuuuuuuum noooooo. Lock her up.

[@astrofan1993]

We’ll see come the season finale, but I wonder if the other Renèe refers to Renè Picard, Jean-Luc Picard’s nephew, who died in a fire during Generations. Perhaps, during the Confederacy timeline, Renè lived while Renèe (Picard’s ancestor) died. But if Renèe lives and completes the Europa Mission, it dooms Renè to a fiery fate.

[@fabiancueyoutube246]

"The La Sirena"? A redundance.

[@IRMentat]

this new series of the walking dead id getting mighty odd. replacing rick with a confused and feeble old man was also a bold choice.

[@Alphi71]

Okay, I have to ask (and this is a mild spoiler for season 3) . . . . . . . . . If Raffi has La Sirena in season 3, how did they get it back from the Jurati/Borg? And how's it intact (not to mention 400 years old and still functional, and not assimilated)?

[@colinantink9094]

I’m wondering the same thing.

[@gregory3155]

The La Sirena from Season 1 and the beginning of Season 2 is the SS La Sirena from the prime timeline. When Q makes his change in the past, they begin to exist in the altered timeline aboard the CSS La Sirena (kinda like the mirror universe La Sirena). They take the CSS La Sirena back in time to Los Angeles and that's the vessel Jurati/Borg Queen took. When Renee was successful in her flight and the timeline restored, the SS La Sirena from Seasons 1 and beginning of 2 is waiting for them in 2400. Meaning there are now 2 La Sirenas in the prime universe. A 400 year old one that's probably been heavily assimilated and the one we've seen since the beginning.

[@imranbecks]

​@@gregory3155 Time travelling is mind boggling yikes. Still doesn't explain where the Borg with queen Agnes is in season 3. All of a sudden it's the original Alice Krige queen.

[@edborinsky86]

Is Elnor still dead when they come out of that alternate reality?

[@chrisbennett2005]

FROM THE GODS: KINDNESS AND EVIL HAS NO FORM ! YOU CAN BE ANY FORM YOU CHOOSE AND STILL HAVE A CHOICE TO BE KIND OR EVIL ! 😎

[@petermcguinness5281]

Looks like a hookup is on the new horizon.

[@Roarshark12]

How's a ship jumping into warp from within the atmosphere.. isn't that a basic thing you don't do??

[@Delogros]

I'm sorry, you weren't expecting them to be true to the canon in an episode where the Borg are literally an allegory for the playground bully are you? "They're only mean because they have no friends and are lonely"

[@Dowlphin]

"A ship for a life if more than a fair exchange." - That's so USA style where all the wicked schemings she applied before and influenced events massively don't seem to count. ... I mean, including how the life she 'saved', Seven, was also the one she almost ended. I also didn't quite get how they imagined this working, since they had to return to their own time, no? Maybe it is the way the show is made that it is difficult to follow some of those things. ... At first I thought she would take the ship but pick them all up to travel to the future together. Why would she go alone? Did she not time-travel? *What was the frickin' plan here??* Did they know Q would do this since they arrived in the whole adventure through Q's actions anyway?

[@The1976spirit]

Picard doesn´t understand timelines. His futures have no pasts, his pasts no futures, no way out. Eternal here and now, unescapable, Shakespearean. The Continuum doesn´t want him on Mortis. Nagilum would reject him if he tried: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGK7gJ-npseggaM

[@ekming751]

So are they stuck in the past without and no way to go back to the future ?

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

Clearly Q is the one is going get them home. The question is, is it going killed him or not?

[@dkarukas]

They had a good story for a three episode arc but they stretched it out for the entire season.

[@freelancenerd4804]

U give away the one thing that can get u home? The plot holes in this show are amazing, imagine if this show was book and u were trying to read the story…. I’d bet U would have a hard time. They double back and ret con their own continuity within their own season. This show doesn’t have writers, they have a guy throwing darts at an idea board.

[@fandomvault4901]

a good borg collective..hardly

[@Koulnis]

René, in the future, is Picard's nephew. His brother's son. He and his brother die in a fire in a stable. So technically, one has already died. Perhaps this lesson is for Picard to understand letting go, and to look forward.

[@lotusjewell9984]

In my defense, I had actually hoped that Seven and Chakotee had gotten together in the end of Voyager. But.... I can totally ship Seven and Raffi

[@PanzermansBunker]

Blaaa blaaa blaaaa...femma Trek sukz.

[@turbopokey]

🤦‍♂️ Oh for fuqs sake… you can’t go to warp in atmo like that, hell it’s dangerous enough to do it in system. Something about the gravity wells holding open the space-time tear caused by the warp field when wrapping subspace around the ship, I don’t remember exactly.

[@turbopokey]

Meh, just another established fact ignored by show runners because it’s inconvenient, like how the symbols on the stargate are supposed to be constellations visible from the planet the gate is on and the symbols on the Abedos gate were different from the earth gate, but those little facts just kinda got lost for the series when they introduced thousands of gates across the Galaxy they were just turned into code digits and all the stargates became identical.

[@brianlindee220]

What is this startrek let's make bad choices and let the bad guys win

[@theyux1]

the star trek that did not use the logic bomb on the borg. Stop pretending its new.

[@BrianScottGameNight]

What a dumpster fire.

[@Roarshark12]

Q will get his powers back and magically bring them back. Qeus Ex Machina, lol.

[@mattplata7469]

@@Roarshark12 ill only allow this is if after he brings a maraichi band to play and celebrate.

[@iralosttwo5569]

So she must be become a born again Christian?

[@CaptainSawyer]

Hot garbage

[@VeryDeathlyShiny]

More like 'luke-warm garbage'... There are more plotholes in this show than the borg cube in S1 venting to space.

[@-M0LE]

DIALOGUE TREK boring crying talking nothingness how jeri Ryan allowed them to ruin 7’s character

[@randomrazr]

yawn

[@RS-qo1rb]

Ahhhh cry 😭 again. Garbage acting.