SFAT vs. Hungrybox - An Overlooked Moment in Melee History

[@turndownforwalt]

I've teamed up with veno and TrueCustoms to bring you an EXCLUSIVE merch drop for this doc! Check out the limited drop Stand Up designs and grab a sweatshirt for yourself, before the shop closes on January 16th! veno-shop.fourthwall.com/products/turndownforwalt-sfat-hbox-champion-sweatshirt Also, thank you to Loupedeck for partnering with me and supporting the creation of this documentary! If you're interested in any of their products you can check them out here (not an affiliate link, but maybe they'll give me one soon): loupedeck.co/3Sb6Ynf

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

I will almost always pull for SFAT. Even though it's super unlikely at this point, seeing him win a major would be way too awesome

[@turndownforwalt]

Wait you're the Pokémon PowerPoint person I love your stuff LOL

[@leobaek2513]

Finding out you were a smash fan changed my life, love your videos ewgf

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

@@turndownforwaltThank you! I’ve been a big fan of yours for years, your content got me into melee (I’ve been an ult player for 4 years)

[@thatatlasdude1065]

Love to see this crossover

[@peanutpockerman4864]

Can we see walt make a PowerPoint on melee

[@Tselel]

I feel like folks (myself included) tend to forget how INCREDIBLE prime SFAT was. Pushing Hungrybox to the full distance in a best of 5 during this era, the PewFAT reign of terror in doubles, and just setting himself up as THE definition of gatekeeper. If you could beat prime SFAT, only then could you start to consider yourself one of the best in the world. I'd love to see him make a wicked top 8 run in the future.

[@turndownforwalt]

THE VEGGIE MONSTER

[@khlfff2]

Important to note that Hbox also would stand up to get a better view of the DI his opponent was using when he'd get a grab. This is also prob partially why he'd wear sunglasses too for a while

[@turndownforwalt]

He was truly ahead of his time

[@kca698]

the time to cheat you mean? @@turndownforwalt

[@georget4141]

is it even feasible to take your eyes off the screen and look all the way down to your opponents hands in the middle of the game tho

[@keplyr]

@@georget4141mid grab and one of the best melee players of all time, absolutely

[@kardar233]

iirc he’d specifically do that during downthrow which is a longer animation than the rest of puff’s throws

[@coachmcguirk6297]

I remember when everyone in the melee community all started reading the inner game of tennis and watching ping pong the animation. Fun times.

[@turndownforwalt]

store.beastcoast.gg/collections/tdfw/products/tdfw-ive-been-reading-this-book

[@Dzuh]

​@@turndownforwaltabsolutely ready with the plug my goat

[@zekielswheel]

The hero appears..

[@sdw-hv5ko]

We've all been that 0-2 player who thinks "I just need to work on my mental game"

[@Murks33]

ping pong goes hard though damn

[@gigaegad9770]

At 9:44, that actually is an energy drink, Bawls Guarana Original Flavor. It's one of my favorites, produced by the Bawls company out in Akron; it's most well-known for being a drink of choice for LAN parties back in the mid-to-late 2000s, and for being featured in some godawful product placements in little-known isometric strategy game "Fallout Tactics". The bottle shape is kind of iconic, with all the bumps all over it and the not-quite-weezerish azure of the glass. The guarana fruit from which they get the caffeine is supposed to make it uptake slower and thus give less of a rush than something like coffee or redbull, in order to keep your hands steady. In my experience it works pretty well -- I can drink one or two and go through a night sleepless without any excess jitters or twitches. There are consequences, though. Other drinks have adapted the whole guarana thing too, but I'm fairly certain Bawls was the first. Also, SFAT is a choker. I'm sorry Zac but you know it's true. Hope this helps!

[@turndownforwalt]

Wow that's wild, I legit thought it was a Bud Light LOL

[@patches.742]

I can attest to this, it somehow had a pretty wide reach around that time in North America, as a teenager I have fond memories drinking it and buying to because the bottle and name were iconic. I say it had wide reach because I could find it in Newfoundland Canada (island off the east coast of the continent)

[@15MinuteUpload]

Incredible comment

[@laurasnow7822]

I forgot that he loses so I was so disappointed.

[@KRX_]

I love seeing mini-docs that continue to archive and highlight the rich history of Melee. Great work, as always.

[@turndownforwalt]

Thank you so much! Got a lot more to bring to you guys this year!

[@cullenhutchison6528]

Both Hbox and SFAT seem like real stand-up guys.

[@erficusrex170]

I'll never forget watching this set live. I think this set was actually really important in the grand scheme of Hungrybox's career trajectory. It was one of the first times where his back was against the wall but he just refused to lose. The attitude he used to win this set was something that he only grew stronger within the following two years, and that's a big reason why he became the best in the world. Great video as always, Walt. Keep up the good work my dude

[@masta182]

Love me some SFAT, he's always been the guy to beat if you want to make it into the top 10.

[@jakenap7184]

This tournament was so hype, the Mang0 losers run and this SFAT/Hbox set were huuuuge highlights. It also makes me miss Fly, his IC’s was always sick

[@whatarewaves]

Love sfat actually goated at the game

[@mrchinosofexodar]

Walt, nice work on the doc... Fresh and unique; keep 'em coming 🔥🔥🔥

[@turndownforwalt]

Thank you so much! Much more to come!

[@CheeseWedge056]

I've been playing various games standing up, the game feels very different at a different angle, and seeing the mini jump that SFAT did is very reminiscent of what I've done a couple of times in the past.

[@youraverageguy7842]

HBox was clearly energizing for his pop off in game 4 with those energy drinks

[@psymar]

I think the error by SFAT was not standing up earlier. You wait to do something until last stock game 5, it doesn't really matter what you do, you're gonna get clutchboxed.

[@turndownforwalt]

hbox only loses when he so chooses

[@tomasestebanrojaslaluz1688]

thats a wonderful [as] reference, great bump

[@zephmckee872]

I still remember watching this match live. SFAT made it look like 20XX was upon us and not even peak HBox could stop it. It was terrifying.

[@TheMacaroniPanda]

Love Zac, he is such a sick player, and to be that good for how long he's been doing it is so impressive. Glad that he was at UC Davis for my first year of college/first year of entering locals (after playing for a few years beforehand), he has this cool energy about him, and he welcomed me to the scene. One of my favorite moments from being part of the community came from him. Zac, his coach Bobby, and I, were in a carpool to Genesis 8, and at one point we were singing Runaway by Kanye West at the top of our lungs. Such a cool guy and player, love seeing him at norcal locals from time to time.

[@KincaidCS2]

I can never help but root for Hungrybox. raw unadulterated passion and ambition drips from the dude. not many of us want anything as badly as Juan wanted/wants to be the best.

[@turndownforwalt]

Popoffs you can feel

[@BigSpence225]

This was well constructed, great job Walt. Looking forward to the content you produce this year.

[@peregrinecovington4138]

Hopefully people will finally start to put respect on SFAT's name

[@connorr4183]

Walt never fails to drop banger vids

[@turndownforwalt]

Appreciate that a ton, thank you!

[@Charitish89]

SFAT is still one of my favorite players to watch, one of the cleanest Fox's around 💪

[@JustJamGuy]

I really hope you never stop making content man, love watching you and these documentaries are EASILY my favorite of your stuff!

[@turndownforwalt]

Really appreciate that, thank you so much!

[@rannynihilius8481]

I expected that this set would one day or another be a topic on your channel but more so leaning into the goofy breakdown format but i really enjoyed the more analytical timechamber you've created for this iconic moment of the game's history. Hopefully 2024 will be a very successful year for you and man you gotta get that Armada block at Tipped Off

[@turndownforwalt]

Thank you so much! I’m definitely leaning more into this format this year, so stay tuned for more! Oh and I’m getting that Armada block 😤

[@itzmasterz]

SFAT used to be the gatekeeper of the top level. There always seemed to be a gap in skill between him and the rest of the top 10 (even when he was in the 10), but SFAT was one of most consistently good fox players ever. If you couldn’t beat SFAT, you could never be at the top. He just dominated everyone outside the top 10.

[@sneakytako99]

Wow that quote from Nadal is freaking deep

[@michaeledes1111]

Speaking of doubles....a video chronicling the GOAT teams would be awesome (el chocolate diablo, pewfat, 4 leaf mango, etc)

[@MISTERX7725_]

This is the best Melee content creator that doesn't take its own ideas from other content creators.

[@pieceofbread5311]

As an Ultimate player of likes HBox, I’m confident that that would change if I ever had to play against him in melee

[@hungrybeakstudios472]

I love Hbox but those popoffs are crazy

[@matthewflanagan9101]

Lol for sure

[@Parpeing]

Indeed

[@redfern963]

Still gotta say at the runback back then being able to see Fly pop off that tourney was pretty great

[@alstoyle]

Yeaaaaaaa this is the stuff from the community post I've been talking about. 10/10

[@rickyspanish4335]

Sfat always one of my favorite players to watch, love him.

[@saxeladude]

some games especially the best competitive ones are not about play but out-play any game where when you make a mistake and the difference between win or die is the opponent then it doesn't matter that you made the mistake if it's not punished. so you don't have to play well you just have to play better than the opponent. so there is no play only out-play.

[@JackDaniels-ru2xy]

I stopped taking Leffen seriously when he said Puff was the best character in the game lmao.

[@Parpeing]

Yes yes we all saw the powerpoint, very convincing thourough powerpoint

[@JackDaniels-ru2xy]

@@Parpeing can you link me what you’re talking about? I wanna see this lol

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

I think SFAT is my favorite solo main fox. Some day he will have a major breakthrough like cody.

[@JoeSmith-db4rq]

And here I thought this video was going to be about Cody’s “reverse pop off” But damn, pleasantly surprised! Lmaooo

[@alexjaramillo2520]

Didn't HBox injure his hand when he smacked the table after the win?

[@Parpeing]

Lmaoooo

[@Ihadtochangemyusername]

some of the shots in this video are freaking gorgeous!!

[@MR-zt1hh]

1:24 im not sure who that is against mango but damn if it doesnt look like a long haired fatality falcon LOL

[@turndownforwalt]

Put some respect on one of the Ice Climber GOATs

[@ksad96]

Fly Amanita was the best Ice Climbers for a bit and he was notable for never ever Wobbling. Dude retired a while ago but when he was active he was hype as shit to watch

[@MR-zt1hh]

@@turndownforwalt respect putted

[@ditodevice1950]

Hungrybox stands up to check oponnets DI to ensure more grab->rest combos.

[@turndownforwalt]

Yes back then

[@ayrtonpavot3096]

and thats why he's the goat

[@MattBaker-o7]

sFat the working man’s goat

[@littlevince]

I think you should have mentioned the allegations that Hbox stands up in order to see the opponents' control stick and thus which way they're DI-ing his throws.

[@bdellovibrioo5242]

Awesome vid as always. Side note, I was blown away by that TAS Fox v Jiggs by TOMMYJKK at around 6:00... really creative TAS there.

[@ramiel5628]

Didn't Hbox used to stand during games to watch his opponent's DI on their controller?

[@awiseman93]

Phenomenal as always man.

[@Kajichuu]

the clip of Hbox using rest in real life sends me. xDD

[@michaeledes1111]

In the words of Dwight Schrute "Picture someone doing something heroic. Now was he sitting or standing?"

[@dudeguy8686]

Outside of the psychology, I wouldn't be surprised if there was actual physical benefit to standing. It seems like it'd make our blood flow easier, preventing all the veins in our thighs from getting pinched by a chair. If your body doesn't have to work as hard to get that blood to your brain, then more focus could be available for that reaction time. Seems plausible, at least

[@psymar]

Could also just be that when you're sitting your body tends to relax, which might slow your reflexes a tiny bit.

[@dudeguy8686]

@@psymar Quite possible. So would peak gaming be while running on a treadmill?

[@turndownforwalt]

We all need to be like that guy I found at Big House who was playing double mat DDR and a violin at the same time

[@Kerrmunism]

4:55 The photo for Hax 😭

[@Kami10]

did bro switch the name from the guy who literally stood up to hungrybox to an overlooked moment in melee history.... fair play walt.

[@turndownforwalt]

Yes we're testing something

[@Kami10]

@@turndownforwalt yeye, I assume algorithm stuff. Just testing the waters in terms of what's eye catching in both thumbnail and or title

[@mooglechao]

Dog made me smile

[@turndownforwalt]

[@warehousedave7937]

Hungrybox has always been a standup individual

[@paulcochran7007]

Did not expect to see Roger Federer in a melee video. Was not disappointed.

[@carterghill]

2:43 you thought you could trick me

[@turndownforwalt]

I’m mango!

[@KL6Soup]

Almost at 100k keep grinding

[@kwobbleguy9252]

Anyone else know exactly which set this video was going to be about just from seeing the two standing figures??

[@CasualScrub]

Never heard of loupedeck but you've got me interested, will definitely consider getting one

[@turndownforwalt]

I'm hoping they give me an affiliate link LOL but I've honestly really enjoyed using it so far!

[@CasualScrub]

I will wait a bit and see if you end up getting one before buying @@turndownforwalt

[@ThaRixer]

Great vid walt

[@turndownforwalt]

Thank you homie! We gotta make something together sometime!

[@Benji_Jokjo]

13:51 this is just like one of my Japanese animes !

[@tweetledee7851]

hey walt, loved the vids as always, but i just wanna say i almost completely missed this one because the thumbnail didn’t catch me. i don’t know if that sounds rude, but i can’t imagine how many people might have missed out on this one from a confusing thumbnail! again all love, i hope you’re having a great night/day

[@turndownforwalt]

Not rude at all! I actually was testing a thumbnail change and may be switching it back today

[@yesyesyaII]

Reminder that SFAT is the author of the greatest Melee-related tweet of all time.

[@Hitmonsashi]

lmao @ the adult swim type bumper

[@aVataR_ehyeh]

Rudolph, Rudolph, Rudolph! :D

[@PlayMadness]

Oh man I legitimately forgot about the Standingbox era.

[@tokisuno]

literallt the most slept on top player

[@mini8964]

Sfat kinda looks like jack harlow

[@brianlemos6487]

Really cool video Walt

[@Sickmagix]

Great video man, keep em coming(:

[@EvilMan301]

Great video keep up the good work!!

[@ly2me]

hbox standing up vs cody's timeouts, which is more OP?

[@NiGHTcapD]

Stand up for yourself.

[@lazul_i]

sick vids as always walt

[@turndownforwalt]

Appreciate that! I'm just running a test right now, so I may throw it back to the original title/thumb later

[@dorkmork7349]

Another banger video!

[@waulkingwithdinos4564]

Great movie Walt

[@xLinne]

walt is doggo :D

[@nathanclarke7162]

I thought this was gonna be about Cody lol. Cuz he "stood up" to him in the reverse popoff

[@rickyspanish4335]

Watching PewFat was always such a treat

[@Xxblade17]

Is that walt?

[@turndownforwalt]

Yes

[@ThePi314Man]

This tournament is seriously one of mangos best losers runs ever, just as an aside.

[@sebdot_]

my goat

[@milk4you1200]

Great video

[@paolosworld99]

Great thumbnail

[@turndownforwalt]

Porky the goat

[@paolosworld99]

@@turndownforwalt I noticed that you have changed your thumbnail and title in this video. Are you trying to take advantage of the YT phenomenon where rebranding videos increases views? Because this isn't how it's done. The reason why rebranding can work is because newer viewers mistake them for new content and thus watch them in succession with your latest videos, which dramatically helps your channel if you have recently grown and want to direct your new audience towards more content. You have a different problem though. Your viewer retention almost always drops off after the first 30 seconds. A general audience doesn't have time to get engaged with you essay-style narration. You need to make your content much shorter, faster, punchier, and edgier. I'm sure Oddball is a decent writer but you should ask him to write with more edge and intrigue rather than exposition. You and your crew are working needlessly hard on videos that, no offense, don't get good views. Asumsaus is a one man show and yet his content does numbers compared to yours. You can easily match his audience with the right direction in mind. Sorry about the random jargon but I really want this channel to succeed. It has the potential to be really good for the scene. I have a plethora of experience with the algorithm and video design to maximize growth, we can talk on twitter if your interested. Take care

[@turndownforwalt]

​@@paolosworld99 Appreciate the comment a ton -- we were just running a quick test over the past few days to monitor data (since I'm making a few macro changes to my channels this year). I'm not entirely sure I understand all of the feedback here, so it'd be great if you could clarify some of the details. Can you message me on Twitter?

[@paolosworld99]

@@turndownforwalt Sorry for the late reply, I'll DM you sometime in the next few days

[@BinkysCorner]

A little ElliotIsACoolGuy poster inspo eh? very nice Walt

[@turndownforwalt]

Oh yeah Elliot is a legend

[@lakermangmx]

clutchBox is the final boss

[@adriantimber4188]

So where did the old thumb nail go? The new one lacks the energy of the original. Sad to see it go.

[@turndownforwalt]

I replied to a few of these but I was testing something - I may change it back today

[@Vagabor123]

Feels like melee is dead right now. Need to get the community engaged

[@1Adamrpg]

Honestly I liked the previous title more.

[@turndownforwalt]

Responded to a few of these already but I’m just testing something

[@theremix54]

>Watch video about smash history >Focuses on Fox player >Click off video.

[@turndownforwalt]

I really think this talks about both players pretty evenly LOL

[@Noah--07]

pog dude

[@turndownforwalt]

[@robertfriedmann1845]

This just proves that with modern production technology, video editing software, and pulling stock video/pre-recorded material, you can make a shitty Wartortle about absolutely fucking nothing.

[@turndownforwalt]

Thanks for calling it a documentary!

[@brandonjohnston4033]

Good job walter video movie 😚

[@I_V_X]

Is a myth that hbox stands up to look at the di on throws?

[@turndownforwalt]

No he would do that

[@coopers714]

Yuh

[@Lampaluile]

Is it wizzy?

[@alexmay7250]

Thought this would be about the raciest mii gunner combo video

[@Ihadtochangemyusername]

like, resubscibe if i could, watch the video in .25x so you get 4x retention rate - love your work and GOOD LUCK IN 2024!!!