Shadowlands Is Being ERASED?! Chronicle Vol. 4 LEAKED!

[@Doronsmovies]

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[@bobhammer8993]

This is great news. I had pre-purchased shadow lands way back when but never had a chance to play it. Having it make more sense when I get around to playing it through will be very cool.

[@stephenhaldane995]

Yes they could "it was all an illusion from Nzoth"

[@knockcro]

You just read my mind! It soo easy to do it and marketing it as illusion that never happened!

[@stevemiller7836]

a vision

[@jacobislucas]

I’d be happy if the retcon to shadowlands was “none of it happened, everybody was tripping hard on brownies they got from a troll.”

[@NostraDavid2]

I would take a "everybody lost their memories when they returned from the Shadowlands, though it seems the impact on their mind and body has stayed" or something along that line. That way you're not skipping the horrors we went through, yet are able to forget it ever happened. Arthas could've helped us defeat Sylvanas for all we know. The Jailer? Who is that?

[@NostraDavid2]

Amnesia is kind of a cheap trick, but a cheap expansion deserves a cheap fix.

[@Berthier90]

it felt like we all had some hashcookies from a stinky troll

[@nujiro]

Bwonsamdi just pranking everyone by going around giving them some of the good stuff that went a bit too hard.

[@ricardomolina905]

Blizzard DO NOT have the balls to take one for the team and admit that this was a clusterfuck and plainly say this never happened and retcon it out of continuity. It won't happen

[@That_kind_of_orc]

I just hope blizzard will say something along the lines "our characters were put under a genjutsu it was all an illusion" when it comes Shadowlands

[@palwatcher6903]

and any mention of it in the future is like "you went to the after life and then came back? riiiight."

[@ffarkasm]

Anyway, if you die in the Shadowlands where do you go? Detroit?

[@uvveshlurvvesh6515]

😂👍

[@tatalsaba]

Classic reference.

[@uvveshlurvvesh6515]

@@tatalsaba Southpark 😂

[@tatalsaba]

@@uvveshlurvvesh6515 Yeah Saddam and Chris going at each other.

[@uvveshlurvvesh6515]

@@tatalsaba exactly ❤😂❤😂❤😂

[@ashameimaru]

Still gunna say that the Shadowlands was a collective Azerite induced high, and everyone was tripping our badly

[@Handles119]

How about: the jailer was a liar. The end

[@gortex123]

What happened in shadowlands, stays in shadowlands!

[@francescoporcari8597]

In a way, it's like Vegas

[@DagothDaddy]

honestly as messy as it is it's the only choice as long as Shadowlands exists death has no weight. Baine dies oh well Anduin can just visit his friend in the shadowlands anytime he wants.

[@LucianoAnielor]

None of these shenanigans would happen if Afrasiabi and Danuser did their homework. Chronicles were written between the launches of WoD and BfA (coincidentally when Metzen was no longer in the game's writing team, and he soon retired when volume 1 came out), and the whole "Titan's perspective" was a horrible excuse for them to justify why everything from those books (and the previous Lore sources) got discontinued or retconed. Those Chronicles books are obscenely well written, fleshing out not only the cosmology but also the magic system and the chronology. It's so good you can't just pretend it doesn't exist, answering a lot of the important questions while putting all the pieces together, from the very genesis of the Great Dark Beyond till Cataclysm (and incorporating all the Pandaria's Lore within it). Shadowlands was garbage, but people forget how bad the writing became once MoP finished. WoD got its entire story cut, Legion was a black hole of a mess, BfA tried to tell thousands of different plots at once, and DF straight up reinvented the dragon's Lore unnecessarily (seriously, you could perfectly put most of its concepts with stuff already established in the Lore, but the choose the most difficult path and left this mess unfinished).

[@grovestreet5128]

i still die inside remembering how saurfang was killed off and how tirion was killed by a no name demon.

[@RealJuiceWrld]

Voljin died to Felguard #65243 and his troll regen didn’t work…

[@8ferarry8]

@@RealJuiceWrld for all intents and purposes Varian wasnt going to survive his felguard encounter either, he just got lucky to be disenchanted by Guldan in his last moments.

[@pirojfmifhghek566]

Yeah that scene really ended BFA on a saur note.

[@TheRealCeeJai]

That 'no-name' demon that killed Tirion was a raid boss in Nighthold *named* Krosus. At least he got a death by a unique, uber-powerful demon. Vol'jin died to a random Felguard. Also, yeah SDL sucked, but Varok went out how he lived: fighting. He got his honorable warrior's death - and stopped a war at the same time. He wasn't killed off; he chose his fate.

[@blerp6675]

Arthas turned into fart dust 😢

[@AbiyBattleSpell]

honestly calling the first ones a myth be smart. in fact they could always retcon it to them actually being another name for the titans. cause honestly the whole first ones stuff just sounded like someone at blizz went i want to have my own titans that i made screw the original titans. cause the first ones pretty much where what the titans were originally in nilla wow. just more obvious robotics.

[@francescoporcari8597]

And the First Ones opened to the question: who created them? The Former/Previous Ones?

[@AbiyBattleSpell]

@@francescoporcari8597 just to mess with the guy who made the first ones at blizz have the titans make em out of spite 🐱

[@eisande6237]

They could have redeemed that expac if they had followed the story we suspected with the Primus being the actual bad guy and he had been controlling the dipshit jailer. It would have made so much sense and been way cooler.

[@francescoporcari8597]

Nope that was blatant nonsense, contradicted by evidence. The whole runes=order=domination is pure tripping as we have fel runes, void runes and so on.

[@mayuri4184]

If this keeps up, Blizzard may as well treat Shadowlands as Command and Conquer fans would C&C 4.

[@danielgibson3422]

C&C 4? You mean Kains Wrath? That was just an expansion... 😏

[@mayuri4184]

@@danielgibson3422 Oh, my bad.

[@x_ghost_x6612]

Fix how dirty they did Arthas and i will be fine.

[@pirojfmifhghek566]

Really feels like they're trying to make good on the story this time around. I mean, the complexity of Shadowlands still doesn't feel like the problem to me. The Dune series is complex as hell, but people still love that convoluted pile of psychedelia. It's like you said, what matters is how they handle it. Shadowlands sucked because the narrative just sucked. Hiding too many cards, not really letting us know what's going on. The big villain was always telling us the truth was too complex, but it's not like we ever got to see the truth for ourselves. The lore was nothing but lame placeholders. It's like the writers said "uhhh, maybe we'll tell you the truth once we decide what it's even gonna be in the first place... but trust me bro, it's gonna be so complex and huge it's gonna blow your mind! Yeah...." I bet the new writing team didn't even have to do any rewrites of Steve Danuser's lore because all they were given was a napkin with "[fight some big evil guy]" scribbled on it.

[@ephasm]

I think whats going to be important tot remember about Chronicle 4 is that these are written from Titan perspective, so what we're going to get might not be new lore, but rather we're going to get some insight onto what the titans were thinking over the last few expansions and how they felt about the outcomes etc. This will be very telling i think.

[@catrinastars]

@@ephasm this excites me, especially since they just revived Tyr. It would be interesting if this book was framed as him catching up on current events.

[@ephasm]

@@catrinastars yeah that would be pretty cool! i just think people are underestimating the potential of chronicle 4 due to "no new lore" when what we're actually getting is one factions definitive view OF that lore which will have its own massive reveals. The previous chronicles didnt have the same impact in that way because it was all new "old" lore. We were finding out more about the history of things. This book is going to be a retelling of our own actions over the last 10 years from the titan perspective. What did THEY think about the events of shadowlands etc? Franky at this stage, I'm convinced that Aman'Thul is a void titan. All of the titans have aspects of other cosmic forces, and the new lore explicitly states theres no such thing as a pure representation of a cosmic force. We see evidence of this in Shadowlands where even there, death is sorted by the other cosmic aspects. Aman'Thul deals with time, he empowers Nozdormu who deals with time, and what cosmic force do we know that has a very long and confusing past with the forces of time? The void.

[@catrinastars]

@@ephasm ❤️❤️❤️ and now I’m even more excited than before.

[@francescoporcari8597]

No. The Blizzcon 2019 Q&A statement by Danuser undermines the concept of chronicles. The Chronicles were supposed to be the official unbiased tale of WoW's history. The vol. 4 uses the word "players", so I wouldn't treat it as an internal source. Long story short, with Metzen's in charge, Danuser's cheap trick ("chronicles are titan's pov") is not needed anymore. Metzen was never afraid to retcon, and never felt the need to justify it's retcons.

[@solsticeofsins6039]

8:53 Odyn's Edicts make retconning the First Ones impossible, but they can still be diminished. Odyn has always been fascinated with Death in lore, so who's to say he didn't drink some of the Shadowlands' "First Ones" cool-aid after he traded his eye to the Jailer and reframe the Titans' history to fit his new beliefs?

[@KaldonisPondo]

Shadowlands being *erased* is so dumb. Shadowlands being *edited* would have been better. Expand upon what was unfinnished and make it an actual story that fits. Woulda been cooler if Bolvar became the new Jailer after Zovaal fell... Imagine if *true* cosmic criminals and sinners - that definetly NEEDED to be locked up - began pouring from The Maw afterwards. Bolvar steps up, his daughter pleading for him to stay. He simply looks back... "There must always be... a *jailer*"

[@sagenod440]

5:40 Looks like somebody at Blizzard has been studying geometry. Going with the dimensions of the shape as described on Wikipedia, it would seem that the 20 planes of existence are the hexateron’s 20 faces, the 15 transitory pathways are its 15 cells, and the 6 vertices are… its 6 vertices. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-simplex

[@Mezukage27]

just say Shadowlands was a fever dream we all had. it was one big headache that no one wanted. not everything has to be big brained evil plot. they used big dictionary words at the hope it adds substance to the lore. it backfired.

[@DataCymru1701]

They dont need to retcon shadowlands, just have the Devouerers eat everything!

[@Ironbreeze53]

Zovaal was malfunctioning, a glitch, or prolonged dream sequence like season 2 of Dallas back in ‘86.

[@UncrownedKingDante]

I think ya'll miss a point, Shadowlands wont ever be retconned, part of it will be for sure because it just doesnt make sense however you add it up. But first ones will always be a thing, and no, not everyone is f*king robot , only creatures that wander around Zereth Mortis and Eternal ones are "robots" like Zovaal was. Funniest thing 100% more people will ignore new info and hints in Chronicle Vol.4 on Primus being mastermind behind "jailer". It is referenced and questioned as how did Primus , the inventer and master of domination magic lose to chained Zovaal in maw. Thank god we still have few content creators talking about it. Because its obvious they won't let it go, however much people want it to believe.

[@hugofernandes3262]

The Primus having puppeteered the Jailor and being the true schemer and mastermind has always been a great theory and I hope that's where they eventually end up.

[@francescoporcari8597]

The primus and the whole Rune=domination=order magic is pure tripping. Runes have always been used even by characters with no contacts with the Titans or by the Void itself.

[@francescoporcari8597]

They simply relegate the First Ones and most of SL lore to a small corner, ignored by everyone. The Chronicles labelled them as legends or myths of the Shadowlands.

[@UncrownedKingDante]

​@@francescoporcari8597 Yeah but there was never evidented any other character in WC universe using and mastering domination magic🤣 those are not regular runes . Domination Magic is most powerful magic in the WC universe and there is said to be only 1 master of it. What you are telling is simply not true bro. Also to that last part I assure you Shadowlands will be relevant again, its canon storyline and they are labeled as Myths for reason. Blizzard screwed up the narration of that expansion , whether it be because of their huge lawsuit back then, or because of lack of work because there was covid pandemic at that time, people forget that very often. Also dont forget like we watch all other chronicles as untrue mostly since they LABELED CHRONICLES as TITAN POV, so I wouldnt take that too much to my heart because its not lore accurate then rather more as a viewpoint. Also we believe Titans lie to us in chronicles... Remember events of Nihilam where they explained how Sargeras defeated them with fel storm and Norgannon "saved fragment of their souls".. More we get to The Last Titan more we will realize these books are pointless, would rather take info from a regular WoW novel more serious then anything they said in Chronicles. All because they stated its just a point of a view and Titans telling us the events from their view (deception, lie, manipulation) Primus has already allied with Aman'thul, we know that because he is said to have distant ally in timeways with alot of hints back in pages of Korthia telling us this being from Timeways that helped Primus learn "his ways" to strategy is from the Order. And in return Primus learned Aman'thul how to use domination magic, what led to Aman'thul dominating Sargeras and framing him into "going mad". We know Titans try to claim worldsoul for themselves, Primus played simulation with Zovaal and tried to harness that unclaimed power. All with no suspicion of him, the master and only creator of Domination Magic. Zovaal on the other hand alone had no powers whatsoever. Blizzard never confirmed to Zovaal how he got this Domination Magic because he was powerless Arbiter that was framed for bigger plans. Just remember "Vassal of life disguises treachery, beware the eyes of green" - LL'GYNOTH 8.3, Patch right before Shadowlands.

[@francescoporcari8597]

@@UncrownedKingDante all I read is assumption over assumption. There's no such thing as rune magic, and Danuser words at Blizzcon 2019 are largely overestkmated. The Primus has not been confirmed to be the puppetmaster of the jailer, we have no confirmed use of domination magic outside of the death magic user circle. Did you think the old gods are using domination magic? In the fall of nyalotha cutscene you can see an obelisk with runes inscribed.

[@tatalsaba]

Good, slowly but surely diminish the events of Shadowlands until no one cares to remember at all.

[@patrikzotaj4528]

and ruin arthas is a bad and terrible idea and writing.

[@mathenis]

they should then remove all anima costs from vendors and let us buy cosmetics and other stuff with gold, if Shadowlands is being thrown down the hole

[@cipherx6334]

I hope shadowlands get full on ret conned, at this point I wouldn’t mind it being completely and unceremoniously cut from lore and gameplay. That expansion felt so bad to play, and what they did with beloved characters was just awful.

[@Nagria2112]

you are the guy who would call Onyxia a retcon because she was a disguise and you didnt know it before. how can there be NEW information TECTON

[@HawkknightXC88]

RIP Revendreth, Maldraxxus, and etc good covenants.

[@palwatcher6903]

Slyvannas was under a dream spell when she touched the helm of domination....somehow, Arthas returned.

[@TheRealCeeJai]

You need to learn the difference between 'retroactive continuity' and 'retroactive contextualization'. The Illidan novel was retroactive contextualization. The re-do of Throne of the Tides was a perfect example of retroactive continuity, or what a 'retcon' actually is.

[@Siege181]

I honestly would be happy if the start of the War Within is Anduin waking up in Pandaria, just after we have beaten Garrosh, seeing his father and saying “Father, I have had a horrible nightmare “ And Varian replies whilst hugging him tightly “It’s ok son, your awake now”

[@warhacker99]

Instead of war within if we got a shadowlands rework and got a cool arthas ending I would pay all of my money for it.

[@princessbreeminecraft3821]

I wouldn’t mind if Shadowlands had some mention in a future story for a retcon. But, I pretty much enjoyed the art, music, covenants & characters like Sire Denathrius. When some companies try to write it out to make it look like it never happened is usually a mixed result even when it’s bad. It would be good for a while but after it could cause minor problems among characters & stories where people question about a certain event that happened but was written out or ignored. However it also depends on the direction. Shadowlands has a loose end I doubt they’ll tie up & it’s Sire Denathrius being trapped inside Remornia who was taken by the Dreadlords. That’s something we’ll probably never see

[@patrikzotaj4528]

with danuser gone.

[@sidionysos]

damn even bots on youtube now

[@Nagria2112]

NO NO NO chronicles where NEVER said the be the full story. its said the be the HISTORY of wow. did you even read the first page?!?!?!?

[@KDE4LIFEBAYBAY]

"Shadowlands was a weird dream from a side effect of Noggenfogger's Elixir"

[@zzmr_stretchzz8772]

3:30 I DONT THINK ANYONE would be mad if we found out the whole of shadowlands was a vision from nzoth, we never left that boss room. anduin can still feel icky if he wants but just change the reason claim its war, sylvanas i dont remember what she was doing at that time of the nzoth fight but build off that lore and have her doing LK things in the backburner till they can do a proper shadowlands/lightlands combo xpac, could tie in small things like tyrian meating talyia but instead its on azeroth and it could all work by saying everyone on azeroth saw their potential future as a dream type scenario so people just go and meat up quicker than what they would have unintentionally making us stronger because we are more united

[@allanwidner9276]

Well, my main - an RP gnome hunter - considered leveling in Shadowlands to be the result of eating "mushrooms of questionable provenance"...

[@Braven-j7m]

shadowlands is what happens when fan fiction writers try to destroy a worlds history so they can create their own because they think their fan fiction is better.

[@koheletcalaforexclan6508]

Well you know how they said that thing about the Chronicles being “how the titans saw it” as to retcon absolutely anything they want? The lore doesn’t matter! 😂

[@xsvrrx]

something to take in to account is that Wow shut down in chnia during shadowlands and they were about 2 million players they also mostly played classic

[@cnacma]

They’ve already confirmed that in TWW they’re switching the default playthrough expansion from BFA to dragonflight. They’re straight up trying to pretend shadowlands doesn’t exist.

[@Unitos_]

"Retcon" and "continual contextualization" are not the same thing.

[@realmoftheouroboros8313]

I bought the first 3 but as the lore is "Flexiable" i don't feel compelled to make my trylogy in a quarterly

[@klapacjuszanimomon8501]

This game needs a serious reboot

[@darks2485]

Return Arthas to say a proper goodbye and fix his ending....

[@patrikzotaj4528]

yes and finally because it was a mess.

[@Darkkfated]

I mean, if they're smart they'll take the few small bits of it that did actually work, and pretend the rest never happened. Honestly, it's what most of us are doing at this point anyway.

[@malikaruvan5209]

They did garrosh dirty too

[@SylvieMoon]

I think we can say shadowlands never happened it was just a fever dream

[@francescoporcari8597]

Nice to say Dorons and all those fools who has eaten Pyromancer's groundless theories cope with the established lore. No Primus being mastermind, no order magic, no runes as a telltale sign.

[@JD-nw1jl]

soooo... does that mean the next remix will be the shadowlands? =)) hahahhaa.

[@Mysterious-Fox-01]

are they rewriting the story in shadowlands? in the game or just a book? kinda strange to rewrite an already told story in the game when it's already old content

[@EldarDave120]

Personally I enjoyed the idea of the Shadowlands and was hoping they would continue down the rabbit hole to the very heart of all things.

[@beastmaster0934]

I agree. It was an interesting concept. They just executed it so terribly.

[@Lrd_Jacobus]

Most people - Blizz plz use area 51 tech to remove everyone's memories about Shadowlands. Me Chilling in Maldraxxus - Yea sure, tell that to Yourself

[@tadeasprikryl2407]

Shadowlands was full of anxienty :/

[@Nagria2112]

please do NOT call it e retcon. its clearly stated that the chronicles are history. please dont take history for fakt - its writter by the winners.

[@francescoporcari8597]

that history is written by the winners is not true at all, it has proven false multiple times in real world history.

[@Nagria2112]

@@francescoporcari8597 you are joking right?

[@johnb1145]

Oh wow, you've matured into a handsome young man!

[@Frostydog85]

IDK. I might be one of the few who liked Shadowlands. Except that bs they did with Lich King.

[@IlijaNenadović]

Noooooo. It is an important part of the overarching story

[@Nagria2112]

what are you talking?! its more relevant than EVER. soulbinds, the primus, the first ones, the VEIL around azeroth??? the only thing irrelevant is Zovaal because he was probably a puppet of the primus.

[@francescoporcari8597]

That theory is explicitly dicarted by the vol.4. and it was groundless to begin with.

[@Nagria2112]

@@francescoporcari8597 the book that has proofen to have flaws and perspective is not all knowing imho

[@mw2984]

Hmm I dont think there is really a good solution if you look from a storywriting perspective. I personally dont like when part of a story is rewritten just because it was bad or people didn't like it. As in life shit happens and I would prefer Blizz to aknowledge their mistakes and to clearly speak out what was shit and show with the future how it can be better. But tbh I dont like the writing for TWW so far neither :D but maybe I am getting old and this kind of stories are just to boring for myself nowadays :D

[@jcs7206]

6:20 Ok, either that book is not a reliable source or the Firelands weren't created by the Titans and it's just more titan propaganda.

[@luke4260]

Steve Denuser ruined Warcraft's lore, that's all

[@Eyawork]

Just give me arthas

[@guydude4124]

If they completely recton shadowlands I will just give up on the game completely. Just let it be what it is. DW is honestly horrible nonsense that already retcons the entire universe by shoe horning events into existence we know damn well did not happen. If they just say forget everything about shadowlands then I just don't care anymore and will move on to another game for real. I already have to pretend like WoD didnt happen and swallow all this other horrible writing. Shadowlands was not that bad. I do not understand the seething baby hate. It was a mess and it took place during the pandemic so of course it was chaotic and unfinished but I just will not care any more if I am supposed to just unlearn everything because they cant just swallow the mess they made.

[@FranzAlverio]

I think removing the story of Shadowlands is not a good idea, it’s better for it to be toned down rather than retconned out because we just can’t remove the night fae arc that has played a significant impact in lore building both elune, kaldorei, and even green dragons

[@RealJuiceWrld]

Then watch the video and see what he has to say.. cuz that’s not what they’re trying to do at all..

[@belinus7180]

People need to stop equating businesses decisions that really screwed up Shadowlands to "bad writing". We all know there's a lot that was cut from the expansion. The development of the Jailer alone is that. Shadowlands was fine in that it started to sow doubt into the what we, as on our characters, had been told was the cosmology of the universe and that the titans are at the center of it. Some of the things we learned in Shadowlands is going to help prevent the same problem that happened when Chronicle started ret-conning things. Blizzard had painted themselves into a corner by making the Burning Legion the end-all enemy.

[@stephanieedgar6308]

I don't want them to erase Shadowlands. I actually liked the expansion and i'd rather they tie up loose ends than erase an entire expansion. After all there was good things in it. Like Stewards that I wish were a playable race or literally any other race from Shadowlands because they gave us no new playable races, but introduced us to so many that would really work well as a playable race!

[@AbiyBattleSpell]

blizz still fumbling the bag with it cause they didnt acknoledge the fact of how cool it been despite the bs if they had a endgame type portal cinematic or boss mechanic where everyone from warcrafts past good or bad that is dead helped us woop the jailers butt. they literally had there thanos and wasted it!!! 😾

[@sidionysos]

Shadowlands is canon. Stop grifting and do better content.

[@austindavis8229]

To anyone hoping they’ll retcon SL to be a fever Dream - Wake up, you know that’s not gonna happen lol. It was NOT that bad.

[@farmerjoseph8683]

I loved shadowlands lore hope they expand upon it.

[@TheDarkWan]

I loved Shadowlands. Yall need to chill

[@39shy39]

It was objectively bad

[@huszaristvan8246]

You are saying the same thing over and over and over again.

[@joshuawoodard6998]

SL had flaws, but the gameplay was solid. 🤷🏾‍♂

[@krustyklownkollege7361]

Who the fuck is that black feminist titan over furion?

[@ComeAtMe50511]

I like SL

[@CristianDCure]

I dont think there is any information on the titan been minions or crations of the first ones... I think they were created on the same time but titans has a gestation time from world soul to titan. its posible that the first ones were the first with Consciousness. however both of them are primal creations. that would explain why there is rivalry between titans and first ones.

[@Itisoverthere-rw]

Chronicle was always a cash grab and it proves how Blizzards sees its customers as idiots.