Shinzen Young - A Conversation on Paths of Awakening

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In Part 1 of this wide ranging discussion with meditation master Shinzen Young we discuss the relationship of his system and the Progress of Insight meditation map, The Mind Illuminated and other views on awakening. We discuss the philosophy behind the experiential path of awakening. Finally, we begin talking about the relationship between art and awakening.
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Content:
🌱 Timecodes:
0:00 - Intro
1:01 - The Progress of Shinsight class:
3:36 - Shared Lineage, Shinzen, Bill Hamilton, Daniel Ingram and Kenneth Folk
6:40 - From pre-buddhism to modern mindfulness. Good News/ Bad News
9:03 - Polarities in Art History and in Buddhism
10:13 - The Mind Illuminated - How do “Attention and Awareness” fit into your system?
16:18 - How is the Unified Mindfulness (UM) is a skeleton key of meditation practices?
21:07 - UM is system for awakening in any meditation system.
26:53 - Comparing Attention/ Awareness and Nama/Rupa
30:00 - Visiting Teacher from Burma - Taungpulu Sayadaw
33:24 - “There is Nothing but Nama/Rupa”
36:37 - The problem communicating great teachings.
39:12 - How Conceptual Art and Meditation are talking about the same thing (intro - cut for technical difficulties.)

[@matt12.8]

Amazing content. Am also from the post-structuralist, Deleuzian framework. What you say at the end on the phenomenology/concept battle in modern art is very on point, this battle is essential in philosophy as well. Hegel is the first modern philosopher on this, "introducing" his purely conceptual presentation (Science of Logic) by a phenomenology. You literally make me see why Hegel hated Buddhists so much: you're too close to him, but still not Christian

[@qwortor]

Nama/rupa to me is concept/sensation. Concept being the organisation or clustering of sensations. Sensations being the phenomena of the 6 sense doors, ... (...including concept, but mostly the other 5 doors, yet also the reproductions of the 5 in the 6th ie, vision and mental image are both sensation, but mental image has much more of a concepts leaning, as it's more about structure/organisation/clustering of the sensations.)

[@teri.hannigan]

"Elegant" and "Effective"- also like what you want in algebra or software code. Great interview! Maybe see you at the New Year's sit with Shinzen.

[@DeepMindfulness]

I missed the sit but I'm sure we'll cross paths soon!

[@hansenmarc]

I had no idea there was a connection between Shinzen and Bill Hamilton! 🤯 It’s so cool that I found this video after doing deep dives into Daniel Ingram followed by Kenneth Folk.

[@andrews7414]

Any idea where can one find information about Bill? There seems to be only one book ‘saints and psychopaths’ for 90$😂

[@hansenmarc]

@@andrews7414 unfortunately, no. There are a few KZbin videos where either Daniel Ingram or Kenneth Folk talk about him, but not much else that I’ve been able to find.

[@biscottone3357]

I see beauty as practical in meditation as it is in playing music. Always refining the question " How beautyfully can I execute the instructions?".

[@DeepMindfulness]

That’s lovely. Another good question can be, how can I experience (and express) the unique beauty that is this moment. ;)

[@luishsteuer1660]

Thank you!

[@DeepMindfulness]

Thanks for watching!

[@nicoeffem3483]

excellent...thank you!

[@trevgrooves]

Thank you.

[@DeepMindfulness]

You bet!

[@Theembodimentchannel]

A gift. Thank you - Mark

[@DeepMindfulness]

Thank you!

[@VeritableVagabond]

Oh yeah...sexy new content.

[@DeepMindfulness]

You know it! 👠

[@Smoshfaaaaaaaaaaan]

I really like the blue picture you have hanging in the background here! Could you tell me where you go it or what it’s called? That was a very nice interview, love both Daniel Ingram and Shinzen!

[@DeepMindfulness]

Thanks so much. That is a hand dyed shabori work I made a number of years ago. It’s a one of a kind. Glad you like it!!

[@Dhammaeveryday]

intellectual papanca

[@chrisbyron8219]

I'll have to be the sole detractor, begrudgingly. I'm very confused what the general theme or intention of this interview was supposed to be? Each time Shinzen or the interviewer came close to finally resolving or answering an issue, the interviewer would switch topics to something (sadly too often) self indulgent. E.g., we never saw slide 3, we never really got a full explanation of Shinzen's system, we never really found out what that noma-rigpa term meant, or what the story about organizing a sit in within a few hours was about, how it happened, etc., (Moreover, I'm not even sure why the story was brought up in the first place) and suddenly we start hearing about art school and post-structural art theory...? So confused, haha!

[@squamish4244]

The interview is a mess, agreed. But I'm single-mindedly interested in stream entry, and most of the commentors are not. Guess they haven't been disillusioned enough with the world yet or whatever.

[@tryI0]

I had never considered Awareness and Zooming out could be the same thing. Admittedly I haven't read TMI too deeply or recently, but I thought Awareness was something that happens automatically and Zooming out is a doing. Did I get "Zoom Out" wrong?

[@DeepMindfulness]

Good catch. Zooming doesn’t have the same import as Awareness does in the TMI system. Also, Shinzen uses “zooming” as a way to explain these phenomenon, but assumes that the mind will be open at times (zoomed out) or tight. But this isn’t necessarily something one needs to “do.” I mainly think of it as a metaphor to describe shapes the mind can take on.

[@lewiji]

@@DeepMindfulness > I mainly think of it as a metaphor to describe shapes the mind can take on. Thanks for that description, that made the whole thing click about what he meant!

[@DeepMindfulness]

It’s similar to the way that Culadasa are used to call it peripheral awareness. He later removed the term “peripheral“ because people kept thinking that’s where it was located. This was also a metaphor and a pointer to indicate one easy place to find awareness. It reminds me of that Zen concept that every teaching is ally to some degree, meaning that every teaching tool fails at some level when you’re pointing to the unconditional.

[@tryI0]

@@DeepMindfulness Thanks for the explanation. That makes a lot of sense. BTW, your class sounds great. Hope to be able to take it someday

[@bhogayogi]

When is part 2 released?

[@DeepMindfulness]

As soon as possible. I’m hoping this month? Honestly, part two is what I’m most excited about. It’s where we get into contemporary art history and derma theory. Really fun stuff.

[@IlmariLahti]

@@DeepMindfulness I'm still interested in hearing that conversation! Maybe there's info in some other channel that I've missed but did something happen? 😅

[@Foolwithouthumility]

@@IlmariLahti Yea where is it.

[@dr_robotnic]

What happened to part 2??

[@analuis6114]

Serie can i find part 2?

[@DeepMindfulness]

Coming soon!

[@toddthedrysocket]

I am struck by the parallelism of Shinzen's "zoom in/zoom out", culadasa's "attention/awareness", and Iain MvGilchrist's views on the two modes of brain functioning - see kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnfWaoqFZ6drq6s

[@DeepMindfulness]

That’s a good connection. One part of the brain divides the world and sees it as a collection of small objects. The other merges everything and sees not as a field of raw data. Early Buddhism takes the first as its route to awakening while later Buddhism focuses on the latter. Good point!

[@squamish4244]

Not good enough yet, Shinzen.

[@DeepMindfulness]

🤷🏻‍♂️

[@jurekbarabanov5840]

Useless, misleading chatter