SHOGUN 1X8 REACTION! Episode 8 “The Abyss of Life” | Hiroyuki Sanada | Full Episode Review | Disney+

[@FanPops]

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[@nont18411]

Hiromatsu: “You must live. You will know what is like to be denied.” Even in his final moment, Hiromatsu still took the opportunity to teach his son a lesson about understanding Mariko’s feelings. A proper father here 👏🏼😢

[@alcor4670]

There were three reasons afaik why Hiromatsu went through with this: • To push Yabushige to ally with John. • Spies are everywhere, and he has to convince them that Toranaga was indeed conceding defeat. • The other generals were about to commit seppuku. His own sacrifice saved them, as they would most likely be needed for the upcoming battle. Buntaro at least can take his place as the head of the family.

[@shinichiiwashita6903]

If u are non-Japanese, it’s impressed u mentioned “spy” without explanation, it is obvious for those who familiar with cultural background of Japanese feudal era that spy’s and betrayal everywhere. That’s why Toranaga needs everyone has no question about his surrender to make crimson sky successful.

[@hiroshikadoya489]

私は日本人ですが、あなたも日本人ですか？あのシーンを完璧に理解している人が日本人以外にも居たとしたら、それはとても驚くべきことです。特に３つ目の視点は重要です。よく見抜きましたね。

[@alcor4670]

@@hiroshikadoya489 No, I'm just a non-Japanese guy who appreciates various cultures, especially Japanese.

[@extraemail6127]

@@hiroshikadoya489We are called “weaboos” over here ここでは私たちは「weaboos」と呼ばれています

[@martinsleight321]

Hiromatsu either knew before, or knew during. How you spend your life matters - he spent it to gain victory for his Lord. On the battlefield, or to get the doors open at Osaka... it's all a battlefield really. Super valuable way to spend his life.

[@philliesfan3414]

I don’t really swear…. But this show is soooo FUUUUCKING good! Side note. Hiromatsu was the only one who truly has an idea of what Toranaga is planning and that’s it. And Toranagas son didn’t kill himself on purpose lol. It just so happened his death bought Toranaga time which he is grateful for. But if his son killed the uncle against his wishes it still wouldn’t have been a bad decision being Toranaga most likely would have been able to fold his brothers army into his own. Toranaga is a master tactician and a true master of the art of war. He sits back and lets his enemies mistakes and capitalizes off of it. And is also great at deception. And knows when and where to fight a battle. All things that the art of war teaches but the most important thing is patience

[@lizomkhize]

The resolve and strength it took for Toranaga to sacrifice his close friend just after the death of his son is awe-inspiring. He has an unwavering commitment to the cause.

[@arahard25017]

21:24 At this time, Toranaga and Hiromatsu made eye contact and understood each other's plans and feelings. All of this is for the survival of the clan and peace in Japan.

[@Javelineer]

Yes... Not many noticed how Toranaga's look changed after the last blink and Hiromatsu continued the seppuku..

[@ngocquoc2828]

It seems their gererals would start a coup but then Hiromatsu seppuku stop it. Respect Lord Toda

[@subhashismandal9871]

I don't think so. I think they were going to do what Hiromatsu did to stop them as they are needed in the forthcoming war.

[@nont18411]

We have to remember that Toranaga is a politician. The most important thing for him is to win the war so he must use any measure, no matter how morally reprehensible to achieve that. You can’t win the war just by being nice.

[@sinbun.]

It is toranaga who mourns Hiromatsu's death more than anyone else. This war was to protect Japan from foreign enemies. A battle that can never be lost. Toranaga had to abandon all personal feelings and be cold-hearted for the sake of the country.

[@ck_idgaf1680]

Folks need to understand regardless of how you feel about Buntaro, he is a great warrior, his father denying him death is for him to stay alive and fight. Keeping Blackthorne in the dark, is right, he's an outsider, he would not sell it. Mariko is on that ship to do her duty, hmmm, maybe it will end well.

[@alesh2275]

Buntaro didn’t know beforehand about his father’s seppuku, that’s why Hiromatsu was explaining to him never to abandon Toranaga even if Toranaga appeared to have abandoned himself …..

[@roymerritt348]

What I'm getting from this episode is that Buntaro and Mariko were happy in the first few years of marriage. Then Mariko's father killed his evil lord. Buntaro being a faithful samurai couldn't understand how anyone could turn on their lord. So he punished Mariko. Maybe she didn't want to die at first, but she began to want death, because of the actions of her father which brought shame, but mainly because her husband used the actions of her father against her.

[@3pcgi959]

Very great episode, yes. I think that at this level such tactics and decisions are very important to save the whole thing. For a shogun, there is no room for personal sentimentality and other weaknesses.

[@Glisern]

They both didn't know. His son dying was not part of any plan, but him trying and dying, bought Toranaga time. Hiromatsu either knew, or realised during as many have already expanded on, and bought him time.

[@khaii13]

Something to chew on to pass the time, choose one: 1. Hiromatsu and Toranaga talked and planned out the theatrics jointly 2. They came to an understanding of the part each of them had to play in the heat of the moment.

[@yiand3680]

I choose 3. Hiromatsu became aware of the plan much earlier. The reason is that Toranaga is trying to stop Hiromatsu from committing seppuku. Seppuku with me in Osaka = "If you know my plan, you also know that I have no intention of committing seppuku in Osaka, so join the war in Osaka." But Hiromatsu chose to commit seppuku in front of Toranaga's men, a place where Toranaga could not stop him. Hiromatsu's original plan surpassed Tranaga's plan. I think Japanese people, including myself, would choose 3 with considerable probability. Because it is easy to understand the expressions.

[@khaii13]

@@yiand3680 this is a wonderful insight. I’d love to heal more details about it, especially since it is coming from the native Japanese cultural perspective.

[@kuma-y2r]

In Japan at the time, there was a custom called ``諌死'' in which a vassal would die to warn a lord if he failed. This led Osaka to believe that Toranaga was serious about surrendering, and that he was willing to do so even if his vassals died.　Also, the ``person who cannot die'' refers to Toranaga. Historically, Toranaga was a feudal lord, but since he was an only child, he always made many sacrifices to survive the country. That's how they made peace.

[@Frogemoth]

Hiromatsu the GOAT

[@markcruz359]

Buntaro cant help being born in the Toda clan, "a worthless alliance" from the words of Mariko. She never wanted to marry him and never loved him, she'd rather die than be married to him.

[@doasindefinitely]

Poor Buntaro got rejected by his wife and father. No one wants to die with him. 🤣

[@patrickchan1026]

This guy is reading it all wrong and thinks he’s so sure of it too. Toranaga’s son did not know of the plan. Just that his death fortunately bought him time. Perhaps toranaga knew he would have made a rash decision causing his demise. Hiromatsu did not walk into his final meeting planning to kill himself. He put himself up knowing that the Edo generals were about to submit themselves to seppuku. Only when it was the conversation through their eyes of both hiromatsus and toranaga that he came into realization and did what was needed to be done. Hiromatsu has a tell tale facial expression when he comes into realization by raising his eyebrows which was also evident in the meeting with tsuji. When toranaga told tsuji to tell what he saw at Edo, Hiromatsu raised his eyebrow too.

[@LSThrowaway]

I don't think Naga knew, he was acting impulsively. Hiromatsu definitely knew.

[@CimmerianAssassin]

Sleeping on the floor is actually better for you long term btw

[@candisham1978]

Nobody knew Toranaga’s plan, not even Hiromatsu. Hiromatsu knew Toranaga most of his life and knew he was up to something, but wasn’t sure what. His generals were rebelling and he had to step in to stop it or Toranaga’s plan would fail. As you can see, Hiromatsu gives Toranaga several chances to prevent his death but he doesn’t budge. They were both testing each other, and Hiromatsu knew what he had to do to send a deceptive message to Osaka. He pretty much says it when he tells Buntaro not to give up on Toranaga even when it “appears” he’s given up on himself.

[@uhltide3]

Hiromatsu and Toranaga playing 4D chess while everyone else is in 2D. Sheeeesh

[@carlart74]

more like everyone else was still learning tic - tac- toe and Toranaga and ol' Iron Fist ( Hiromatsu ) go that 4D chess game on bloody ironman mode

[@やまねこ軒太郎]

日本には「大義」という言葉があります。 HIROMATSUは、その大義を果たすために命をかけました。 TORANAGAは、大阪との戦いの前に最後のパーツをはめ込んだのです。 HIROMATSUは、その殿の考えを読み取ったのです。 軍団は、このような部下の忠誠心と日本統一という大義の上で最強の軍団になった。

[@土一揆大地]

オ〜マイガット😱💦

[@alexhidalgo7110]

You and Denise are so cute together Denise love that hair so beautiful

[@JynxedKoma]

But completely cringe 'reactors'. Especially the girl. She just oozes fake in her reactions.

[@shinichiiwashita6903]

for next or last episode, we’ll see Toranaga’s half bro betrayal was fake and part of plan as well. Let’s see. ;-)

[@maprang.feelfin]

His son died that not part of his plan , the last scene I think he just want to make his son know that he’s not died for nothing but it’s help him have more time to think. But the hiromatsu that’s a fooling plan!

[@bull9045]

切腹とは侍にしか認められない作法。 決して侍以外にはしてはならい高貴な所作。 理由は色々あるが、 今回の切腹は、自分の命と引き換えに君主に訴える。

[@JynxedKoma]

The guy from Fan Pops is absolutely clueless. Even his wife or girlfriend finds him embarrassing... making assumptions that Toranaga is faking being sick a day or so after his son died.

[@たみしん-e9z]

単純な種類のあなたたちには、日本人の奥深い感情は理解できない。

[@yiand3680]

英語もできないのにマウントとろうとするイキり雑魚っぷりがかわいい。小学生かな？伝わってないよ？

[@ああ-p1l6t]

あなたは日本人の恥です