Shooting the EM-2 in .280 British

[@skipscrop]

Can’t wait to get a tec9 video tomorrow

[@UT_766]

Lol

[@mareli82]

haha

[@YonsonTurbowski]

lmao

[@user-7635h]

that won’t happen

[@Reqlm]

LOL

[@Mgalllll]

Love how KZbin recommends this to me after cold war released this weapon

[@foggy3046]

Lol 😂

[@em4ncs]

Thought I was the only one

[@J0NNYB0YY]

Lmao same lets see if i get the tec 9 recommended lol

[@lucabrasi561]

Shit crazy 😂😂

[@bootlegpapi]

Thought it was just me 😭

[@JuGNL]

So .280 sits in between 5.56 and 7.62 NATO. Ironic since today you see a shift towards 6-7mm cartridges today. That gun looks futuristic for something designed and built in the 50s.

[@Rileysworld727]

JuG I think if the .280 had been adopted we may still have used it today, 5.56 may have never even been invented. This gun and caliber would have been a much better than the fal and sa80 for sure.

[@Rrgr5]

Riley Harville I don't think so, the rifle itself was way ahead of his time, but the round itself was practically in pair with the 7,62x39mm, in a way or another, the 5.56 or something similar would be developed, maybe not used as it was, but definitely would show up.

[@bendover9862]

I can only wonder how good it would have been with more development. The British really missed out when they shelved it.

[@Christoff1996]

Henrique Souza perhaps they would have made a version of this rifle in the 4.85mm used in the XL60 as the soviets did when they switched from 7.62x39mm to 5.45mm for the ak?

[@kretinovalentino2699]

Polish designers always look forward

[@emperordoge6897]

The rifle the British army deserved, but not the one it got

[@ironraccoon3536]

Would've been way better than the FAL, but 7.62x51mm NATO was preferable to .280 British. Apologies that it sounded like I was calling the FAL shit. The FAL is a good gun for the 50s it served. The EM-2 is Posh Space Magic.

[@F4Wildcat]

FAL was a great rifle aswel....origenally intended for .280 :) And then came the SA80!

[@paddy864]

@Your Dad Don't talk crap, the FAL, like the M14, was only adopted because of American pressure to retain the 30.06 (7.62mm) round in the face of overwhelming and long-standing evidence that what the infantryman actually required on the battlefield was a lighter round and a lighter weapon. The Stg.44 was the first to actually provide this, then the AK 47. Meanwhile, the whole of NATO, and many other countries, were stuck in the past for 30 years with an overly-heavy round and the equally over-heavy rifles to fire the damn thing. Must you be reminded that the US started replacing the M14 in 1965, about ten years after they adopted it, with the 5.56mm M16? By ALL accounts the EM2 was an excellent weapon and just what was required, light, compact, simple to teach and operate, accurate and reliable. I carried SLR for 14yrs on operations and exercises all around the world and while I would admit it was an excellent rifle (of it's type!) I would have exchanged it in a heartbeat for an EM2 just for the saving in weight (incl. ammunition) alone. The SLR was a pain in the arse when operating in APC's , too long and awkward when debussing, especially in haste. Although it was accurate enough, it took a long time for the average soldier to master it and become a good rather than just an adequate shot. (By comparison, when we got the SA80 in 1986 we took the Wives Club on the range for a fun-shoot and many of them were grouping to an inch at 30m on their first attempt,!) The EM2 was most definitely NOT "a turd".

[@paddy864]

@Your Dad Yes, we used it because the US refused to adopt any calibre other than 7.62mm which meant that NATO had to adopt it as the standard round! That doesn't mean that the FAL was a better rifle than the EM2, it just happened to be the best 7.62 mm rifle available, better than the M14 for that matter. You haven't given any reason or evidence as to why you think the EM2 was no good incidentally.

[@sticks5614]

@Your Dad It's not that the FAL (or SLR if your British) was better, it was just the West's version of the AK47 in that it was tough and robust and basically indestructible but if you were like me, a skinny, scrawny soldier it was a bitch to carry. In fact I thought if I have to lug that "gat" around I might as well carry the LMG, at least it had auto, as the SLR wasn't, plus I had a shoulder sling for it. When I was given an M16/m203 to carry on a job I thought I'd gone to heaven, it was like a dinky toy. It wasn't until I fired it for real I found out you needed more rds to put a target down whereas you'd only need one or two 7.62 rds and they'd stay down.

[@DEP717]

For 1951, this is awesome. A much closer competitor to the AK-47 than the M-14 was. It looks up to the minute even now.

[@ironraccoon3536]

Treating the EM-2 like an assault rifle is just silly. The AK-47 is a logistically great, functionally okay rifle.

[@lucasperuzzo7459]

@@ironraccoon3536 still 10x times better than the m14, well, even a pile of rocks are more effective than a m14 tbh

[@calebsmith6202]

@@lucasperuzzo7459 Hey now, a pile of rocks isn't near as heavy or stylish.

[@ackerkartoffel8627]

the M14 is a battle rifle, no assault rifle

[@Aaaagrapefruit-l7l]

put a rail on the top and bottom and boom, modern rifle

[@Twirlyhead]

Britains Toys in England made a set of toy (British) soldiers at the beginning of the1950s (part of their Lilliput range) featuring the newly "adopted" EM-2 rifle. When the EM-2 was subsequently rapidly unadopted (Doh !) the model soldiers remained unchanged and have been copied probably more than any other toy soldiers over the years. So there are _armies_ of toy soldiers out there equipped mainly with EM-2s; the only armies that ever were.

[@einefreunde]

Twirlyhead and so my search begins...

[@dialyt1309]

Yes! I had the little HO scale version of those soldiers. I guessed they were British but the helmet and of course the rifle were a mystery to me.

[@painfultruth1846]

I have such toy soldiers

[@Emdee5632]

@@dialyt1309 Maybe you had expected to see the old type WW1 and ww2 helmet? At the end of ww2 the British army started using another type of helmet, the one they used for the next couple of decades.

[@dialyt1309]

At that point i was unaware of the turtleback helmet.

[@TheLastLancer]

My older brother was on the testing team for this rifle, and he and the rest of the team loved it - light, handy, accurate with good performance from the round against a standard steel helmet at (600 yards I think) and actually not bad on auto, although he said it worked best "tapping"the trigger for a 3-round burst rather than full on. He said the US insistence on 7.62 was a killer - a version was tried in that calibre and it wasn't very good. There was also a complaint from some senior officers from the Guards - essentially that the more compact nature of the weapon would not suit it to ceremonial drill!

[@RedXlV]

Honestly the UK should've brought back out the EM-2 and 7x43mm round when the new round of NATO standardization trials came around instead of developing the SA80 in (originally) 4.85x49mm. Just said "these were the ideal rifle and cartridge in 1951, and they still are the ideal rifle and cartridge in 1977." Granted, the US still would've forced everybody to adopt the American round, but still.

[@oltyret]

I was curious how the Guards would have taken to this. Basically, they now take a compact weapon and pretend that it is a long rifle - much as they would have done in the fifties had they recieved the EM-2. Those senior officers must have been relieved to get the FN FAL instead.

[@ironraccoon3536]

.280 was NOT the answer. Too light to be a machine gun or sniper cartridge, too heavy to be an infantry rifle one. In this day and age, it's impossible to standardize your standard weapons and specialist weapons into one calibre. 7.62mm and 5.56mm are a fine pair that work great, although 5.56mm is showing it's age and might need to be replaced by a smaller, faster cartridge.

[@paddy864]

@@oltyret I suspect that is probably a myth to be honest, Even if such comments were made they were going to be ignored, the Army was gearing up for the EM2 and were bitterly disappointed when it was rejected.

[@-NemoMeImpuneLacessit]

@Your Dad many have tried. You little charmer

[@americanfootball8694]

find yourself someone that looks at you the same way ian looks at an em-2

[@a.d.9415]

7:08. Right there. Just like that.

[@MachineGunMike]

LOL

[@einefreunde]

Vincent Kang 😂

[@wavywade8164]

.284 is 7mm. a .270 is actually about 6.8 mm. I think the US military really missed the boat with this caliber. Imagine an FN FAL chambered in this with a carbine length barrel. I believe it would have been the ultimate weapon. I don't think the US Military Wanted any weapons not made here. We almost suffered the same fate in WWII with the P-51 mustang. It originally had the Allison engine installed, same engine in the P-40. It was only when they put the Rolls Royce Merlin engine in it that it became what it was. I've never been a fan of the M16 . I wonder how many of our service men would have made it through alive if we hadn't insured on the M-14 rifle?

[@nelbraudo-441]

😉✌

[@whisperoftheworm6479]

I recommend running the 30 round mag

[@ede-6]

are you a snapshot, triple tap roll?

[@alishaabani83]

Fast mag

[@radicallybean]

No.

[@ede-6]

😢😢

[@whisperoftheworm6479]

@@ede-6 yes

[@hux2000]

I really love the way this guy gives you a big dose of history every time, that he's so genuinely happy and respectful when given the chance to shoot other folks' stuff, and that he never feels the need to insert whatever gun control/gun rights opinions he may have. His interest is infectious and that's why I keep watching!

[@pikeywyatt]

Thank you Ian to take the time to come to the UK and shoot one of our Forgotten Weapons.

[@mrman3809]

Ye I'm from Scotland and I'm proud he came to the UK to shoot one of the UK's forgotten weapons

[@JC-XL]

This will now be moved to the Remembered Weapons section

[@HunterRodrigez]

"this was so fast it felt like one" HOLY SHIT THAT THING FIRES FAS... oh wait he was just joking...

[@TheRogueWolf]

He actually had me going for a second or two as well.

[@MrYfrank14]

got me too. then i thought, it ejected the casing so fast it only looked like one...wait a minute.

[@ajeje1996]

Turns out the AN-94 copied the EM-2, who woulda thunk it

[@MarvelousSeven]

It is a crying shame this rifle and cartridge weren't adopted.

[@datsuna6585]

MarvelousSeven 😢

[@ironraccoon3536]

The AR-10 in 7.62mm was the answer. Unfortunately, no-one went for it.

[@17MrLeon]

No FN FAL in .208 was the answer but americans wanted desperatly .308

[@averylividmoose3599]

We must petition RSAF Enfield to start producing them

[@17MrLeon]

@Nick 718 its superior to .223 as well and we still use that instead. Power is not everything.

[@thvl2018]

Call of Duty: drops new contents KZbin: hey kids, did you know that Ian/Forgotten Weapons has a clip about this firearm ? Or else, the firearm that it based on ?

[@twistedplaya831]

I wouldnt be surprised if this channel is where cold war gets its weapon ideas haha

[@murirokcs5518]

typical

[@durim187]

@@twistedplaya831 im sure of it.

[@Pisuar-nz4ps]

В колде он не очень

[@t11bake]

@@twistedplaya831 he actually did a video with a British museum keeper that helps Activision be as accurate as possible. Paraphrasing but it was explained in it.

[@Hubert_Cumberdale_]

I love how it looks vintage and futuristic at the same time.

[@charlesinglin]

It makes you wonder why, when the British decided to replace the FAL with a bullpup, they didn't dust off the plans for the EM2 and update it for 5.56mm. It's hard to imagine that they'd have had more problems than they did with the SA-80.

[@RedXlV]

Honestly, they should've just kept developing the EM-2 the whole time. Though really, all of this can be traced back to Douglas MacArthur's penny-pinching in 1932, when he insisted that the M1 Garand fire .30-06 instead of .276 Pedersen because lots of ammo was already stockpiled (by which logic no army should change rifle calibers, ever). If not for that then NATO standard caliber would've become a 7mm, either the .280 British or an American cartridge with roughly the same ballistics. And to this day we'd probably see the British Army using an EM-2 variant, most of the rest of NATO using the FAL, and the US Army using a 7mm AR-10 variant.

[@EvilTwinn]

I mean, you have to put the decision in the context of the time. Remember, this is 1932. Middle of the Great Depression. The Army does not have the money to procure a new rifle AND a new caliber and build up sufficient stocks of ammunition for said new caliber. If he had more money available, I very much believe MacArthur or someone else would have went for it.

[@thesturm8686]

Wait, i always thought this evolved somehow or act as the basis of the SA80

[@towarzyszbeagle6866]

@@thesturm8686 nope. The SA80 is basically a bastardised AR-18 action shoved into a bullpup configuration.

[@F4Wildcat]

@@RedXlV We belgians should have also went with the .280 british as origenally intended. I met at arlon one of the testers of the origenal FAL and they had a regular .280 FAL and even a bullpup. He called the bullpup "très décevant" but the FAL in .280 worked absolutelty great.

[@nottactical6988]

FINALLY THE EM2 IN GLORIOUS FULL RESOLUTION. Thank you Ian for this mightily Anglicized weapon series.

[@jasonbowen7190]

A glowing review of an ancient right hand ejecting bull pup rifle chambered in a caliber that is basically nonexistent given buy a left handed shooter. That speaks volumes!

[@Jagdtyger2A]

As you said about the FG-42, a good muzzle brake could be all you need for irreconcilability and accuracy

[@Kurdati]

When I saw this in CW, I seriously thought Treyarch was just lazy with the last round bolt open. Never would I imagine that EM-2 would close the bolt by adding a new mag instead of pressing a bolt release

[@fifteen8850]

I wonder why more weapons don’t use such a design

[@kev9539]

EM2 is a beastily gun

[@radicallybean]

@@fifteen8850 it could jam more.

[@fifteen8850]

@@radicallybean probably, but it’s been YEARS since that kind of concept was actually put in a gun, so I’d imagine the tech we have now is much more reliable than way back then

[@gcart7675]

@@fifteen8850 not all new tech is more reliable than old tech i have a mauser .32 acp pocket pistol that automatically loads a new round in when you put the mag in and it works perfectly

[@JB-ym4up]

am I the only one who thinks this rifle is gun art? it looks like a fine sculpture to me.

[@sEaNoYeAh]

I can't get over how cool this gun is, and how phenomenal a piece of design it was. Remarkably ahead of its time in so many aspects, even now in some ways given calls for moving towards a slightly more intermediate round than the 5.56. The 0.280 might also end up proving to be some 70 years ahead of its time if there is eventually a move to something comparable to it.

[@Mulberry2000]

The problem for the SA80 it was also developed for another round, the US again said no.

[@MegaBoilermaker]

Well done to the school for providing you with the opportunity to shoot a rare weapon Ian. And thank you for an unbiased assessment of its capabilities. Once again our government missed the boat !

[@f1r3hunt3rz5]

_"You couldn't live with your own failure, where did that bring you? Back to me."_ - .280 British to the US Army

[@jeffyoung60]

This is one instance I wholeheartedly agree with the British. After WW2 the Brits attempted to convince the Americans that the smaller caliber, intermediate cartridge was the wave of the future. The Brit firearms scientists took the 30-06 cartridge and shortened it from the top and re-necked it from .30 to .280, which is about 7.2mm if I'm correct (7mm is .270 for reference); am not sure why the Brits didn't just choose 7mm or .270. According to history, it was a good cartridge. The problem was us Americans, or the old WW2 warhorse generals to be more specific. Having just won WW2, the U.S. Army top brass considered the M1 Garand the ultimate weapon that needed no change despite the fact that the U.S. Army nearly adopted the .276-06 cartridge before WW2 and all the signs from WW2 pointing the usefulness of the intermediate cartridge. So close-minded, narrow-minded, and obstinate were the U.S. Army top generals that they officially told the British that they were "adamantly against the .280". Probably to pacify the Brits and stop them complaining, the U.S. Army conceded to the slightly shorter, .308, or NATO 7.62x51mm cartridge, which while proven to be an excellent cartridge, was still too much power than needed. Fast forward over ten years to circa 1965. Those WW2 U.S. Army generals are either retired or dead. Vietnam is heating up. The U.S. Air Force adopted the advanced, state-of-the-art M16 to replace its aging M1A2 carbines at the end of the 1950s. The U.S. Army takes a good look at the M16, disparaged as a Mattel plastic toy gun by some, but decides it's a great rifle, shooting a lethal, high-velocity 5.56 (.223) bullet out of a 1-in-14 twist barrel. The tiny bullet tumbles upon striking the human body. Tales of dismembering and decapitating Viet Cong guerillas makes the U.S. Army top brass like the M16 even more. So without notifying our allies, the U.S. unilaterally adopts the 5.56mm x 45mm cartridge. You can imagine how our allies felt after everyone agreed to the universal 7.62mm x 51mm round. Fast forward again to 2017 where for the past several years the U.S. Army has been re-considering the merits of a larger caliber. The Special Forces do their own study and come up with the excellent 6.8m SPC and actually use it. But as of today, 2017, the U.S. stepped back from its consideration of adopting a new, larger caliber round in a new assault rifle. The M16, today in its latest M4A1 configuration, was so advanced for its time that it is still relevant today in 2017. Other nations attempting to build a better 5.56mm assault rifle come up with good to excellent designs, but are not in any way significantly better than the M4A1. Some have built-in bipods, bottle cap openers, AR-18-style internal receivers, but at the end of the day, are no more effective or efficient than the venerable M16. It will take a completely different weapon and ammunition to make worthwhile the change over from the M16/M4A1. That is why the U.S. Army decided to remain with a weapon that is still tried and true and adaptable over the past forty years. Pick up a M4A1 and you don't get the feeling you are handling a weapon that was designed in 1957. That would not be the case if the U.S. Army was still using M1 Garands, even if brand new.

[@ahorsewithnoname643]

Grande Artiste I have heard it was one specific officer in the ordinance dept that was determined that the NATO standard round was going to be an American round so there was no way a .280 round was going to be picked. I also believe the British 4.85mm round was a better round than the 5.56 but again the Americans forced everyone to their choice.

[@siem3113]

The British did choose 270. first, and the americans wanted it to be .3 of an inch so 280. was an attempt at a compromise.

[@darkmster6100]

But we all know every bit of tech you yanks have is stolen from other countries anyways since your still the youngest country in the world with no real history stole penicillin stole the first plans for a plane to break sound barrier cone on at least be open about it and not pretend your the greatest

[@siem3113]

Darkmster 6 Remember the EM-2 and many other British great weaons like the Bren, were not of actual British design. the EM 2 in this case designed by Janson, a Polish man who escaped from Poland as it was occupied by the Nazis and Soviet forces. Have a bit of humbleness

[@masondyer1625]

darkmster 6 Philippines, Canada, Australia, Iraq, South Africa, India, modern day Russia and China, Ukraine, Poland, Israel. These countries are all younger than America, some have existed before and have been taken over and reborn under a totally new government or dissolved from a previous country. This doesn’t include all the counties that are younger and many British colonies weren’t released until early-late 20th century and counting them as countries before their release would also mean America has been a country since long before the revolution. And about stealing plans for the first super sonic aircraft, well Americans did kinda make the first vehicle the make that possible. And they have been on the forefront of western weapons development since the the civil war, Hell look at WW1 it became the war it was because of Europeans killing each other with American made machine guns or copies of said guns and revolutionizing war with the introduction of aircraft

[@SigurdStormhand]

That was just awesome. As someone who handled to L85, L86 and the L98 (ugh) seeing the much nicer EM2 is just, well, frustrating. Getting to see it fire, though, pretty much made my day.

[@heyimauav5005]

Your easily the best gun channel on KZbin in my opinion, I've been watching since you had like 40,000subs and every video is quality af. I think I've seen all but a handful

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Thanks!

[@andrewdods2236]

Hey Im a UAV you’re

[@LorD-rl7kc]

Ian you're a beast, best KZbin channel on the net!

[@llsusll]

you're channel is always recommended after every new season in warzone

[@sambachand2599]

Haha I was looking for this comment

[@gworfish]

I love that you make no effort to gloss over problems. It's old, stuff happens, and your explanations teach more than skipping the errors would be.

[@trogdor8764]

"And when you insert a magazine in the EM2 it will automatically drop the bolt... and slightly malfunction." I lost it

[@earlwyss520]

A 60 year old magazine fed rifle that didn't malfunction would have surprised me.

[@themadhammer3305]

@@earlwyss520 also a rifle where only 60 were produced and that uses a cartridge which was not mass manufactured. Yeah malfunctions were to be expected

[@flinchfu]

Yeah, that doesn't sound too reliable. How far does the mag have to go in? Does it trip the bolt release before it's completely seated? Seems like a finicky feature.

[@arthurfisher1857]

@@flinchfu 60. Year. Old. Gun.

[@flinchfu]

@@arthurfisher1857 Well... and then there's that obvious point...

[@BennettIsAmazing]

Is envy still a sin under the commandments of Gun Jesus?

[@cheatham777]

Always respect the Beard Semper Fi

[@TheRustylungs]

BennettC You should see how nice his oxen are!!

[@interstellarlapisthecccp4946]

what exactly are you envious of lol... it's not his gun, if you want to shoot it go to this place or a range that has one.

[@Khorsenn]

Interstellar Lapis & the CCCP kinda hard to do that when it’s in a private collection and no range in existence offers one as a rental.

[@ericdeer5887]

Hunter Ray, it’s not even a private collection/range, it belongs to the collection of one of the British Army schools located in Shrivenham. Without credentials as a researcher/professional and a sponsor, you’d never be allowed to touch it. The fact that Ian was provided the opportunity to fire it and film an episode shows the respect he has from “professional” historians and curators

[@m1garandlvr420]

Love the barrel flex seen in the second slow-motion shot. Great way to start my dad. Thanks Ian.

[@Akm72]

Start your dad? Does he get triggered by barrel flex or something? :)

[@IISocratesII]

+Akm72 My dad starts with a lawnmower pulley.

[@m1garandlvr420]

Akm72 start my day*

[@m1garandlvr420]

Akm72 that's what happens when you try to leave comments while at work

[@Skyhulk95]

Cold War:Drops em2 KZbin algorithm:Hey wanna see a real life EM2

[@dwightlooi]

The perfect “intermediate” cartridge with good long range performance and light recoil already existed prior to WWII. It is called the 6.5 Arisaka. Basically, it’s a slightly less hot 6.5 Creedmoor.

[@LexBear]

We've come a long way from the 480p blue jumper wearing video!

[@janemorgan4604]

I'm curious how similar .276 Pedersen and .280 British are in power and recoil. It's kind of odd, because the US nearly adopted .276 Pedersen with the Garand until MacArthur intervened, and then later made the same choice disparaging a similar round, the .280 British.

[@ATARI800XLfan]

nearly the same.

[@GeorgiaBoy1961]

Bryce, the .276 Pedersen was not really an "intermediate" cartridge. Despite its name, the cartridge was not a genuine .276 (.270) caliber, but actually the slightly larger .284-caliber or 7mm diameter bullet. It's case was 51mm long, the same length as a modern short-action .308 Winchester or 7.62x51 NATO case. The bullets tested during the 1920s were 140- and 150-grains in weight, and were propelled at a MV of around 2,400 fps. The Pedersen cartridge was not really, by later standards, a true intermediate cartridge, but it would have been somewhat smaller than the 30-06, which would have allowed the Garand to hold 10 instead of 8 rounds in its internal en-bloc clip. And it did not kick as hard as the larger cartridge, which would have added in controllability somewhat. Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur's decision to cancel the .276 in favor of the 30-06 may seem short-sighted now, but money was very hard to come by during the depths of the Great Depression, and U.S. government warehouses and armories were already full of 30-06. And the '06 had performed very well, even superbly, in combat - up to that point.

[@Kav.]

Not .276 Pedersen but Britain very nearly adopted a similar .276 Enfield cartridge (pre-dates the .276 Pedersen as it was a 1913 project), I'd suggest the recoil would probably be similar to 6.5 Swede due to the use of a full length case compared to the quite short .280 case (you really can't tell just how short it is until you see one in person). What's funny is that both times Britain tried to replace .303 (1913 (.276 Enfield) and 1937-1939 (8x57mm)) we ended up getting straight into a war and no longer being practically able to. Then when we finally got set on a round we wanted NATO and the Americans came along and went "no".

[@nvmleo]

Treyarch is just looking for all the weird guns they can find on his channel 😂

[@EchoBoomer1987]

I hope they find the AK Guy’s KlashneBren.

[@K1LLERSQU1D]

Fr I thought this gun looked goofy and odd asf but it’s pretty much how it is IRL makes it dope asf

[@bradwilliams3643]

@@EchoBoomer1987 do not utter the name of that abomination lmao

[@Bjornieman]

@@EchoBoomer1987 ...what kind of Elbomination was that?!

[@FoxvoxDK]

This rifle has amazingly quiet report! It appears stable in the slow-mo shots. Man this rifle was so far ahead of it's time!

[@jamallabarge2665]

The .280 - what the US should have adopted for our uses. This round in an M14 or FAL would have been wonderful.

[@youraveragereloader649]

I still prefer the 5.56, thank you very much

[@f1r3hunt3rz5]

@@youraveragereloader649 pu55y

[@youraveragereloader649]

@@f1r3hunt3rz5 maybe i just like to be able to carry more ammunition in the same weight as a combat load of .280 or 7.62x51 Also maybe i don't want the Recoil of 7.62x51 or .280

[@MrBandholm]

I can't help but think that both the .280 british and the EM-2 deserves another chance in life... The .280 british I have heard (might have misunderstod it) were in a "sweet spot" in regards to stopping power and lightness, as a round... I don't know if it will be worth investing time into. The EM-2 just looks like a rifle (like so many others) that some company one day might think it would be a cool idea of making in semi fire only, and sell in the US... Sure it is a bull-pub and quit a few has started to dislike that thing... But as a project.

[@MarvinCZ]

Not specifically the E-2 and .280 British, but there are several new-ish 6.5 and 6.8 mm rounds which have roughly similar parameters. The concept certainly is getting attention, including in military circles.

[@jameskachman3692]

.280 Brit is better than .308, sure, but inferior to 5.56 wrt terminal effects. 5.56, especially modern 5.56, has *really* good terminal ballistics, helped a great deal by its velocity. If it was 1950, I'd *definitely* prefer .280 over .308, but not in 2017. I'd happily drop money on an EM-2 in .280 just as a curiosity, though.

[@UnintentionalSubmarine]

Well, one would assume that the .280 would probably have been updated as well.

[@balduir5259]

bandholm same as the dodeteau, too advanced and in a complicated political mess

[@jameskachman3692]

Oh totally, but for the same level of improvement 5.56 will have superior velocity, recoil, and weight. Personally, I'd love to see what an OTM construction .280 (ala Mk318) would do to hogs.

[@MrSmith336]

Thanks Ian, without your stellar reputation we would never be able to get access to all these awesome Forgotten Weapons. As for the EM2 and others like it, politics really screws up things, be it firearms procurement or life in general. This rifle was so far ahead of anything else at that time it's a shame that politics intervened, and I am a huge WC fan too..

[@EmperorPretzel]

Now I'll know to use my EM-2 in semi-auto

[@richardbruce8111]

Ian you have made my day! As a12 yr old I remember the " Illustrated London News" (Britians Time+NRA) rightup of the EM2 Was at that time being coached by my brother in law who had experience WW2 in all the bad places & who was convinced that the " russians were coming" He was expert with the Bren & advised 2 round bursts , accurate & did not give your position away! I remember the disappointment when the EM2 fizzled out! There were many battle experienced guys down here in New Zealand, As a toddler I clearly got the relief when "The Yanks" arrived! Thanks!

[@simonbrooke4065]

At 2:41 you can see the barrel oscilate through about two degrees of arc after the bullet leaves the muzzle. That's the barrel itself bending, rather than the whole rifle moving. This would explain why subsequent rounds in an automatic fire burst would not hit the target.

[@ajdo1991]

Yeah I noticed that too.

[@bruschetta7711]

KZbin is too good at reccomanding me these video of forgotten weapons about guns that have just been released in a game recently

[@thegoldencaulk2742]

You ask? Gun Jesus delivers, like when he brought the 10 gun-mandments down from Mount Bergmann. Or was that Gun Moses...?

[@betaich]

Or was it Mount Mauser or Mount Mannlicher or Mount (How do you spell that French rifle from WW1?)

[@pointcyka4861]

betaich Mount Lebel?

[@deathlok4344]

hey, just reminding you of a comment you made 4 years ago lol

[@DARTHNECRION]

I can’t wait to see Ian’s eventual review of the new SIG XM5 and the .277 Fury cartridge, and see how it stacks up against the .280 Enfield!

[@T0X1C-WA5TE]

may not be the best most reliable rifle but it sure would be a cool unique experience

[@TheAngmarwitch]

Hi Ian, hope youve had a nice time visiting and playing with some of our forgotten toys. Love the channel, im not even a gun enthusiast but I love the breakdowns and the history lessons you give with each review. Brilliant stuff matey, long may it continue 👍

[@imnotsanii]

I’m convinced the youtube algorithm is manually processed considering this is the most broken gun out right now in codz

[@phillipallred5172]

Nah the QBZ is really broken, it has negative recoil with a 3x scope.

[@wolfder6661]

The AMP is more Broken then both

[@Glassmuncher1]

@@wolfder6661 the tec 9 is more op

[@rily8329]

Broken because some of them take 3-5 buisness days to ADS

[@cospielbjj]

Gallo SA12 is more broken bro

[@ChalkyRN]

Just had a play with that very rifle, although couldn’t fire it. There are some amazing things in that armoury and I’d love to hear more about their semi-auto Lee Enfield conversions - it’s a good excuse to go back in another day!

[@rowangallagher4579]

Great rifle, old ammo.

[@GunFunZS]

I think, mostly it's old magazine spring leading to damaged ammo.

[@Sekushiwolf]

Great rifle, old rifle. It's been through a lot seeing as not many were built.

[@AM-hf9kk]

@@GunFunZS Looks like the recoil spring is a bit soggy also. I would bet that simply replacing the main operating springs would have it operating just fine.

[@lilgoop]

That is a very aesthetically pleasing gun

[@xaroxero]

I've never been as jealous of someone as I am of Ian. I'm honestly considering going to school to learn CAD and Machining specifically so I can make an EM-2 of my own. Also, pretty great how it's been like 65 years and the hot new US military created calibers (.264 and .277 USA) is basically .280 Brit with a spiffy new paintjob. We're going to have to wait until 20 freaking 20 for the Army to tell us that these newer high-intermediate rounds are the bee's knees and would have really helped out in literally every conflict we've used the M16 in.

[@ironraccoon3536]

Hahahahahaha. That's hilarious. Even if these bullets were the bee's knees, do you think they'd admit that they've been wrong for the past three quarters of a century? Plus, that'd have to mean that .280, .264, .276 and .277 are good cartridges. Oh, what a joke that notion is.

[@mysticz9046]

Damn the kick back on that gun is insane how can we just casually slide and hip fire this thing in Cold War LOL

[@christianobabalao9302]

Depends on how you handle it

[@keastie6671]

Thye should so update the em-2 and make it the standard british rifle

[@Scrump_Can]

L85

[@Scrump_Can]

@DrIvanRadosivic why ew

[@classunknown]

L85: Am I a joke to you

[@thetrippedup9322]

@@classunknown Yes, the L85 is a joke.

[@chrishitchings8712]

@@thetrippedup9322 you're a joke if you believe that lol. Ever fired one? After the initial teething problems it's proven to be more reliable than any of it's major competitors.

[@swagbobyolopants4737]

The fact that they just added this in Cold War is amazing

[@maluco132]

Ian excited for a gun is a rare sight, notable of recognition

[@nirrec]

I remember this weapon in 1982 when I was based in Roman Way Camp, Colchester. It was on a display at my Regiments Presentation of Colours parade and was showing the initial development of the British Army's future rifle, the SA80.

[@loud865]

That dude has no idea how meta he is right now

[@silence3994]

.280 british should have been NATO Standard not 5.56 this video is so good :) Thanks for this awsome vid

[@derekmensch3601]

silence3994 satandart?

[@silence3994]

Noble Actual spelling error, thank you mate

[@derekmensch3601]

silence3994 dont adjust it. satan dart still kinda makes sense.

[@silence3994]

Noble Actual too late but yeah lol

[@1179125]

silence3994 if i'm not wrong the cartridge kicked more than the 7.62 x 39mm cartridge and almost as powerful as .308, maybe that's why they didn't adopt it.

[@goldeneye0019]

i know this isn't the type of channel for this but i would have loved if you recorded the ballistics of the .280 round in gel just to see how it would have performed.

Ian...your genius with weapons shines when you allow for the rifle's age.Great video...even greater narrator...

[@NLE_Almighty]

When Warzone releases a new gun from the 80's, KZbin recommends this channel and a video with the released gun.

[@DEATHBYFLYINGCDS]

"That fired so fast it felt like one" LOL

[@sohel80123]

this got recommend for me after 1 day of the weapon dropped in cold war lol

[@kagemand7774]

same here

[@donkeylord0072]

Lmaooo youtube algorithm

[@Classicelian]

Yes

[@franckvazquez935]

same

[@FaTaLthe13th]

Seriously!

[@qubed7769]

Anybody else get this in their recommended after the season 5 roadmap for cold war came out

[@brandonvaldez7427]

Reznov teaching me how to load an em 2, incredible

[@stevewood2326]

In the early 80's Palitoy made a version for their Action Man SAS and futuristic sets - back then I thought it was some fantasy sci-fi weapon. To think it was designed in the 40's is quite something. Great to see it being used.

[@flinchfu]

2:00 Casing: "should I stovepipe? Nah, I'm good."

[@yeah7820]

this guys videos always pops up when they add a new gun to cold war

[@igramnr6149]

I hope Calico arrives in season 6, his video will blow up

[@jmad71]

You could tell immediately at the first round it is a nice shooter.

[@spartan7042]

This looks like a excellent weapon for the time period, bullpups give a lot of advantages but the one drawback is clearing malfunctions.

[@lucasjackson2086]

I just love it when Ian gets excited about a gun Gives me goose bumps lol

[@deanzamboni7286]

The fore-grip looks comfortable, I remember reading about this rifle in 20th Century Guns.

[@malcolmtaylor518]

The EM2 despite looking space age was a traditionally made weapon using milling etc of working parts. The L85 is more of a pressed steel weapon designed more to a price. We are talking more traditional gunsmithing verses modern mass manufacturing.

[@matthewpalmer7184]

So...when's HMG gonna start making EM-2 repros? ;)

[@matthayward7889]

Matthew Palmer as soon as I've won the lottery ;)

[@matthewpalmer7184]

Better get to scratching then! ;D

[@dmaxm2498]

That weapon is EFFIN Awesome! I’d love to see a modern replica of it!

[@rob5944]

What a gent Ian is!

[@AlexWAviation]

Cold war: Adds EM2 KZbin : SAY HELLO TO MR ALGORITHM

[@itsajoeybeat]

I like how this pops in my recommended as soon as warzone added this gun to the game lol

[@pheonixplays466]

Ikr

[@amplict.]

anybody else weirdly get this in their recommendations after the new cold war season

[@highliter97]

Ian has the ability to make me interested in things I previously never cared for.

[@gerardosalazar527]

Certainly 5.56 and 5.45 are more controlable than 7.62x39 and .280 brit in full auto, but during the war in Afghanistan it became very clear that 5.56x45 fails to provide enough punch and stand off distance. I think american soldiers would have been better armed if they had something like the .280 british in that scenario.

[@KB-tc5sd]

A Vietnam war and a Falklands with troops fielding NATO Standard EM2's in .280 NATO. How different the historical photos would have looked with GI's leaning out of Huey's and Paras running down the Falls Road. A change in outcome for past wars?

[@aspenfacer-valentine4397]

Kevin Brown Maybe, but Ian has said that rifles don't really win wars anyway and I am inclined to agree. If the different rifle and cartridge brought about a change in military doctrine, it might help, but that's the only way I can see it making a huge difference

[@tropicalfruit4571]

Maybe they don't win the wars but they certainly make a difference.

[@jimbotheassclown]

Only if the other side rifles are Uttar shit. It would have to be bolt action vs Burst weapons as long as a rifle shoots reliable in the end it's tactics and training that win wars and good supply lines and air superiority lol.

[@HaloFTW55]

I’m sure the US would have something that matches the Communist AK with the .280

[@UnintentionalSubmarine]

HAH! I literally asked, with so little hope, yesterday, to see this weapon on the range. And here it is! A good day just became a fair bit better. THANK YOU! ... and in five months some gun manufacturer will announce that they are making replica EM-2s with .280 ammo. Despite me not being able to buy one, even if did happen, it would be awesome. Imagine Gun Jesus and his Prophet Karl taking it out on InRange like they did with the FG42. Just seeing the EM-2 under stressed conditions would be so much gold.

[@aspenfacer-valentine4397]

Jonas Drøjdahl Even better... They could build a "what would Jansen do" rifle! Unfortunately, we're probably not going to see EM-2 replicas any time soon

[@Meowystery]

Jonas Drøjdahl nice

[@UnintentionalSubmarine]

Heh... EM-2 taken to the extreme. FG42 stock for the shock absorption, clear optical sight... and whatever else. I know jack about the guy outside of EM-2 and that FG42 'copy'. But yes, my comment about some replica EM-2 was mostly a joke, it would be awesome, but I perfectly understand that it would probably not be a good moneymaker, and hence not likely to be made.

[@troy9477]

Very nice. Always liked these. My first thought was, i wonder how old the ammo is? I also wonder if Stoner was influenced by the straight line recoil system, or if he already had the AR-10 on the drawing board. These were somewhat secret, so he may not have known about them in any event. Good cyclic rate. A 2 round burst is a sensible limit. Great video as always. Thank you

[@Sjitzooi]

I can feel how relaxing that shoots and sounds

[@GhxstFxce007]

Who’s here when KZbin recommended this video after Treyarch added the EM-2 to Cold War less than a week later?! 👀

[@xt6wagon]

instead we spent decades making the M-14 and vast problems.

[@mweston25]

xt6wagon we then did the same with the L85 series of rifles, 35 years later they still won’t give up on it and admit it’s shit, and they are planning on extending its service another 15 years.

[@pissyourselfandshitncoom2172]

@wyomarine _"Hit hard and far."_ Typical American, like cavemen with the biggest bludgeon. There's more to consider in ballistics engineering besides _"more power makes biggerer boom."_ How about weight, manoeuvrability, controllability, etc. Try firing a full-auto M14 with any semblance of precision.

[@pissyourselfandshitncoom2172]

@wyomarine **Schweizerdeutsch, not _Schweitzer-Deutsch_ I'll have to doubt everything you've claimed now.

[@GeorgiaBoy1961]

@@pissyourselfandshitncoom2172 - Try hitting the gym once in a while, kid. The M-14 is a fighting man's rifle. Maybe you just aren't up to the job....

[@pissyourselfandshitncoom2172]

@@GeorgiaBoy1961 Ok boomer

[@avtuunainen]

Could you describe how good the trigger felt? I mean it's a bullpup, but in disassebly the trigger/transfer mechanism seemed very different from most more modern bullpups, does it have a better trigger than them?

[@Peter-ur3yy]

I appreciate Ian pronouncing Shrivenham properly I.E not saying HAM at the end

[@narabrio99]

I just finish playing on cold war with this thing for the first time and this video spawn in the video suggestion...big brother

[@phillipharding1538]

I was the bloke who looked after this rifle the problem was the magazine and bolt release spring was nackered . What disappointed me that Ian didn’t offer a T shirt as a thank you oh well such is life.

[@RyanRyzzo]

Something about this rifle makes me smile with glee.

[@zapper_2007]

Got this in my recommended right after the em-2 came out in Cold War lol

[@manuelzabdiel4991]

Same💀

[@ilyenisvanitterrefele5381]

I really like scope picture it makes a lot of sense for the spike to come down from above.

[@GARDENER42]

That's something a lot of people miss: It's great as most of the time, a target will show coming from the lower part of the sight picture, so you put the point on the miscreant's head & pull the trigger. Job done (did I say I think the SUIT is magnificent...)

[@chrisvalentine3017]

Very well written report. I have fired that exact rifle at the Royal Collage of Military Science at Shrivenham. It is a great rifle to shoot.

[@papichulo494]

Who's here after the season 5 announcement?