Should These Plugins Get Banned?

We discuss Trackmania Plugins that are powerful enough to argue that it puts Console players at an unfair disadvantage. Should something be done? Are people overreacting?
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[@stumpy990]

It boggles the mind that the speedometer isn't a vanilla option

[@dreflox]

I feel like banning them would be counter-productive and would ruin everyone's life, but yeah letting nando implement the most popular plugin features into the game would be an excellent move IMO

[@duseifert]

Speedometer, dashboard, time medals and afk tool are so good that should be a default on the game

[@clemfandango274]

@@duseifert yeah and speed splits. Optimistic to think nadeo will even care about this though to be honest

[@duseifert]

@@clemfandango274 yeah, unfortunately

[@maxgibify]

I wrote this on twitter before the console release. I got totaly shitted on.

[@PercXO]

@Fledrox I wish they would add the speedometer and gears like the mod on pc and the live splits too

[@ketsu_pl]

One would hope that console release will be the cornerstone to implementing some of the plug-ins directly in game. Speedometer, medal times, I miss them while playing on console.

[@Comet-0500]

As a console player, the speedometer and easier to see skid marks are really an advantage, they are like being able to see your opponent’s in an fps more easily ( but different ). I wouldn’t say they are cheating but I would love to be able to use them

[@slowfreq]

Of course playing on PC has advantages, it's the better gaming platform. Banning the plugins that PC lets you use is like slowing the class down so the stupid kids don't fail as much.

[@mfnbpwnz]

That's actually the state of the American education system.

[@lyderhorn]

Also many people on console play on a regular TV with low fps and input lag.. these are more impactful than any plugin.. so yea I wouldn't play on console to begin with, but don't expect a plugin to suddenly make things the same as pc

[@xTeaspoonz]

RPM = revolutions per minute, great video tho!

[@aervanath]

Came here to say that, too.

[@RacetasClub]

Mindblowing work, important issue, lovely editing, very nicely done man!

[@Tekay37]

You can't ban plugins without upsetting your player base. The only thing you can do is make the plugins obsolete. But Nadeo would have to revise some of their bad UI design decisions and currently I'd also prefer for Nadeo to work on other stuff first (e.g. add a second environment or new themed item sets into the game)

[@Schwabba]

or 2vs2 ranked

[@Schwabba]

They should finally implement my plugin and let us chat in royal again!

[@WuRuYi]

Copium timer would be a good vanilla addition, and probably not to hard to implement.

[@outsidewrld-UE]

Personally, I think the best course of action for plugins would either be implement them into the game or create a plugins section on the home screen with a plugin browser, just like how Bethesda did it with Fallout 4 and Skyrim on the consoles.

[@tetwa9350]

Plugin Browser would be huge. Nadeo would "only" have to verify that a plugin isn't malicious, which is way faster than coding it into the game themselves

[@Jnic]

Also feel free to subscribe if you haven't. 10k seems just around the corner and is such a huge milestone, thank for your support

[@cyb3r._.]

imo, of course nadeo adding these would be best, but assuming that won’t happen, we can compare before and after console releases: it’s still better to be able to play the game at all on console and not have plugins than to not be able to play the game

[@fknloui]

3:28 sorry did you just say RPM stands for 'Rounds per minute'? 💀

[@vibbah]

hey Jnic, just wanna say I got back to the game after 10+years, I always give Wirtual credits for this but it's actually your ghost that's helping me out relearning the game, thank you!

[@0815Snickersboy]

These are not plugins I consider ban worthy. These are more like essential QOL features that should be in the game by default. Racing games had speed gauges on screen 20 years ago and almost any other racing game has one.

[@hauntcharged]

Nadeo officially implementing these plugins is the only realistic way for console to get them. And unfortunately I don’t think they will.

[@EreaserNL]

There are mods for some console games, is just a matter of how much effort Nadeo is willing to put into it. I believe open planet uses a script engine, if they could port the engine hopefully all plugins can also be ported with it. Or at least the ones that dont require user interaction like the speedometer, etc

[@hydro-learn4480]

Jnic is the new Trackmania informational channel! Great job!

[@Helycon]

The gear, speed and rpm for the bottom right corner is so basic that i honestly dont understand how its not just a feature of the game, the key inputs dont seem that important to me as you cant really replicate good players inputs unless youre already really good and at that point you have spent so much time practicing that the advantage isnt that big. I like the time- and speed-splits from checkpoint to checkpoint as they really help with seeing if your lines are actually better than what your pb was doing but i can see how it would impede on competitive modes so maybe ban them from those modes but allow them for hunting maps? Other than that im a big fan of modding in general, not just plugins in tm so i would really hate for nadeo to ban them, after all valve is basically a company of modders and they just so happen to be the most renowned games studio there is.. mods do a big part in giving the devs inspiration on what to add and they mostly exist to fill a niche the devs didnt think of or simply didnt have the time to make so having someone do your work for you, for free seems like a win win, it makes the game better for the players and saves the devs time on developing it themselves or gives them time until they finish their own edition of the feature :)

[@ghostlyrazgriz5228]

As a new console player. I've noticed that the track creator is limited compared to pc. We can get the clup parts but cant use them. For the life of me i cant find any way to put an arrow to show people where to go. Which is one of the critisms i had on a map that i made. We are unable to have parts clip into each other too Nadeo needs to add some of these track parts or decos as official peices that console can use.

[@n0us.]

I feel like most of the game is from the community so I really like whats been done with openplanet. I see how that could be an issue with console, but my PC bias is making me think very strongly that openplanet plugins should be left in and considered fair. I also heard that they are also implementing a learning mode (or something like that soon) for plugins that actually give unfair advantages like sd plugins and ice slide stuff.

[@Wolf36181]

but u wont be able to set records while learning mode is active, ur times will be kept offline while u drive with these plugins active

[@n0us.]

@@Wolf36181 ye ik just brought it up to show steps that are being taken to even the playing field competitively

[@galois6569]

Didn't even mention plugins like changing skidmarks to make speed slides easier. I think there are some that change color to indicate when you have the perfect overlap.

[@alreawon1212]

That's crazy. Is this legal? Do you know the name of this plugin?

[@Vyuel]

as a gc in rl i never use custom training packs or downloaded workshop ones, freeplay is all you need easily

[@SasquatchPJs]

It's been over a year, and console still doesn't have cam 7, the option to bind individual cameras to individual buttons (you have to cycle through them), or access to the full map editor. I wouldn't expect any QoL changes any time soon. Honestly, console should have a slight discount until we get the full game.

[@_CJ_]

PC exclusive :) They know that from consoles so :D I feel like I don't mind any plugins unless we are talking about competition. Hopefully console players can be used as leverage on nadeo to add some of plugins into game.

[@MilnerMichaelBuey]

What is that pluging that teaches you how to speed slide? for research purposes only of course

[@Alex_dlc]

The console edition should get some built in add ons like the on screen controller inputs

[@l1ngotm789]

Personally, I don’t mind about the dashboard and afk queue tools but I think the last plugin you showed us is a little bit too overpowered and give a huge advantage compare to the person who don’t have this plugin. But great video

[@bobbythebuilder7109]

I wish Ubisoft would talk to snailgames and make 3rd party mods work online on console.. Snail is doing this with games and making it work great

[@JaredHathaway]

PC players will always have the advantage no matter what, not to say these are fair, but the line in the sand is immediately drawn when you choose what console to play on.

[@thomasmuller546]

Need a statement from nadeo why they don't put it in the game. Obviously has to be intentional with the gears

[@C4RV3]

The differences between pc and console is something I've been trying to decipher. I'm yet to see a top pc player do a comparison with console. I need this info before I make a decision to buy either a gaming pc or just a ps5 or xbox etc. I currently run a mac, and watch a lot of TM content on yt and twitch. Keen to play, but don't want to be at a huge disadvantage. Thanks for your video on this topic Jnic, and your commentary on tmgl etc.

[@SimonBauer7]

it is the same game but there are no plugins so no spedometer, no splits, no revcounter etc.

[@C4RV3]

@@SimonBauer7 but there's still the speedo on the rear of the car, yeah? Not much good if you're using cam 3 tho. No splits sucks. Also probably no checkpoint counter either.

[@ethanneufeld1]

@@C4RV3 just making sure you know, only the speed splits are part of a plugin, you will still have a time comparison on console

[@AntonGromov]

I think the obvious answer is that Nadeo should adopt OpenPlanet and port this platform to consoles. This way all the plugins will be ported with it, no need to port every single plugin separately. So basically trackmania should have a nitive plugin support.

[@Isaac804ab1]

I feel like they should be in the game itself for the speed and gears

[@nicklong436]

Also console can’t play on the unlimited lol server since it’s a modified/custom server

[@getweirdwes]

Other games have mods on ps5 and xbox like bethesda games come to mind. Why can't nadeo just work with "Miss" - the person who made openplanet - to make an in house mod platform? That way they can control if a mod would be considered cheating for example they could take it down.

[@countyoda]

Nadeo should take notes from every other racing game and add the common ones like Speedo and Split times since everyone else does. Beyond that, I believe RL has a sort of practice lobby for queueing so that’s probably fair to add. I don’t think the inputs should be available for everyone to see. TM has a huge ceiling and observation is a massive part of that. Inputs makes it way too easy to improve as you begin to mimic rather than actually learn the skills. I was new to TM hitting author times in a couple hours just because I could track inputs from KZbin videos with 0 plugins enabled on my end.

[@alexanderf8451]

What does Nadeo even have a development staff for anyway? There are dozens of basic things that have mods which could be incorporated into the game but obviously never will be.

[@blankblank4949]

unfortunately in situations like this i think its genuinely worth consideration to fragment the competitive scoring between console and pc.

[@braunii0]

In my opinion, some plugins should be implemented in the game (they should implement something like speedometer or dashboard). If they did that, there would be no benefit when you play on pc. Some plugins should be removed from openplanet though - the ones that make you better at the game.

[@quentind1924]

What is a plugin that makes you better at the game ? You don’t have in one side the bingo plugin that’s only a new gamemode for fun and in the other side one that says exactly how your speed drifts are. What about dashboard ? Does it make you better at the game and should it be banned ? Every plugins makes you better at the game, some are only to reduce the effort you make for things like your gear/speed (dashboard), and idk if there is one that should be considered cheating by (for example) saying how to make the best speed drift and if you should steer less or more. But some are not clearly one or another. Thd plugin that says how much cp you got and how many there are in the map can reveal hidden checkpoints, same for unclaimed checkpoint indicator But yes, asking for nadeo to implement the most usefull plugins would be a good way to define which plugins are cheating and which ones are fair

[@perspecttv8956]

RPM is not rounds per minute.. it’s revolutions per minute lol.

[@arnautorraros]

If these are accesible (easy to put into the game and free) to everyone it shouldn't be banned

[@AJvsEverything]

The fact that most of these plugins aren't already native to Trackmania just blows my mind...people should be able to change their drift overlap settings, customize their speedometer/input layout, medal times, etc...the UI already exists for these to function and be able to be moved around on the screen, it just seems like stubbornness at this point for them to not add them to the game for everyone...

[@cliptracer8980]

You can hear gears

[@Sortac]

As a console player I think that those plugin's are completely unfair and should get implemented into the game as a standard thing for everyone. It doesn't make sense that Nadeo wants an equal experience for every input device but then let PC players have this huge advantage. 😕

[@reed6514]

Official plugin support

[@changblonk4089]

I’m on console and I wish I could see my gears

[@pr0torano]

In my opinion, Nadeo has two options here, apart from just ignoring the issue or disallowing the use of plugins. 1. Add certain features like speedometer and gear display to the main game, then move all other openplanet plugins which directly support your driving into training mode on openplanet, meaning you can't set official times with. That would level the playing field for world records, although pc players would still have the advantage of having training plugins like custom skidmarks. Such things could be added to an official training mode similar to rocket league if Nadeo cares enough. 2. Implement Openplanet into the game by default. Everyone then would have the same library of plugins available. With changes to openplanets structure on console, this might just be doable, although I'm not knowledgable enough to judge if this is possible in the end.

[@SimonBauer7]

openplanet should be made available for console release as default in the game.

[@Toupetit2_]

They have to ban plugins and add the most good plugins, like cp counter, and tweaker in game

[@petembb]

As far as competions go like TMGL, then its should be a level playing field. If something is allowed for PC now, it should be implemented as base part of the game. But for everything else..NO. just a HUGE NO!!! This is where PC shines, and consoles being as locked down as they are, should not get the same. If you want to be apart of that community, then buy a PC. If you want off the shelf stuff with no fun add ons...get a console :D

[@mfnbpwnz]

Well they removed the easily accessible settings button to make the game more console friendly, so I wouldn't be surprised if they continue to make the game worse to avoid making the console version better.

[@lokai765]

No, they should not ban them. period.

[@sfdgfdhdf]

I LOVE TRACKMANIA PLUGINS

[@nikarmotte]

If we were to ban plugins because of console, then are we gonna cap the FPS at 60 because of the PS4 and Xbox One for the sake of fairness? Nonsense.

[@959_MC]

You keep saying "advantage" for things that are basically just QOL & convenience. An advantage would be something that gives you information that you either don't have access to or the information in the plugin is more precise than the information in game (and that information or change in functionality giving you a competitive advantage). knowing how far you are from being out is nice, but you can also watch the leaderboard (if you are in the middle/top, go safe, if you are near the bottom, risk a little); seeing inputs is kinda 50 50, you can see inputs in game without an overlay, but they arent near as precise, though at best they can be used to provide information about already set runs, so you could find a video if necessary. Speed and gears are pretty easy to see/hear in game. It would be nice if the console players had the _option_ for these plugins, as they are basically preference, but I do not agree that not having them puts a player at an unfair disadvantage. You have much more of an unfair disadvantage just by not paying for club access.

[@samvsmedia8680]

At the end of the day console probably just won't be as competitive as pc, like with many esports

[@muffin3245]

nah

[@YellatBrandon]

rocket league not all plugins are on console just bare bones nothing like pc

[@speerunscompared]

pffft Wirtguy not using buffer time? what a nub

[@bean_TM]

any plugin is an advantage. but they should not be banned. console players chose the console life.

[@Supercharge7868]

some people didn't choose the console life, it was just a better option than a full on gaming PC, more cost effective

[@petembb]

@@Supercharge7868 Then its a lesser option, and in this case not more cost effective. If you can live with out plugins, then yes its better. But for the discussion of plugins, its not even an option, so hard to call it more effective if it cant deliver :D But when it comes to TM, a fairly cheap gaming pc is sufficient. And it sure hell is alot cheaper then a PS5 with a TV.

[@Supercharge7868]

@@petembb You don't need a PS5 for TM lol, just an Xbox One will work fine or PS4 and any cheap TV will work, cheapest gaming PCs at $600 aren't good lol can barely run TM with plugins, so your still basically on console either way. While yes, there are pros and cons of both, the fact that it's on console is great for the tm player base and adds more to the community than what it used to be when it was exclusively PC.

[@maxgibify]

@@Supercharge7868 how are you going to tackle the response time on ps4 and xbox one? Next gen is the bare minimun!

[@SOL-UK]

​@Max it's not that bad lmao 60fps on non custom maps

[@DVous]

PC MASTER RACE!

[@rotcatxbox]

The whole plug-in stuff that gains advantages such as the last tool is a parasite for the game. Vanilla gameplay is the way to go, if you need an advantage in the form of plug-ins you should really consider: why am i doing this? Why am I taking this advantage over other players - its most likely banned in competition, and apparently you use this in "fun competitions", albeit is it really fun if you need the advantage? Some plug-ins like the gear-up etc, should be limited to a learning envi, not the actual game; a part of the skillset of this game is hearing your gears. And then there are the plug-ins that are basically improving the game overall like the afk-tool. It would be braindead to not implement it into the base vanilla game as it improves the quality of life and enjoyment you get out of the game.

[@CerberusHD]

I never understood this equality mania... Why should everything be equal? Just choose and then live with it... Why do console players have autoaim in FPS game for example? In pro matches the plugins are almost all disabled, only a few are allowed AND ALL the matches are played on a PC... Why? Because the only f*cking difference is that with a console you are bound to a gamepad as input device (however I guess somehow you can hook up a kb aswell)... There are pros and cons for both sides, keep it like that, don't f*ck up everything because you want to be equal but in reallity true equality can NEVER exist, and will also never exist...

[@Arcsinx]

I have a strong opinion on this, anything thats not quality of life shouldnt be used.

[@mfnbpwnz]

you have a very strong opinion, and a hazy line.

[@lndn.]

The problem with watching wr and seeing inputs is no longer a problem, Trackmania 2020 World Records shows them now.

[@maxgibify]

Yoo. I talked about this on twitter and got totaly shitted on….

[@magicalgores3416]

We dont get these on console So yeah, some addons can be an advantage. But it is what it is

[@Beatsbasteln]

I LOVE TRACKMANIA PLUGINS