Should We Worry? | Dropped Frames Episode 390

[@Choteron3]

dan is always a great guest

[@3yp0n]

Thank you again to the editor for the timestamps/chapters!

[@theholk]

re: gaming sites and guides: Well.... to be fair, that's how games magazines worked in the pre internet times, too. Part pre-views, part reviews, part cheats/walkthroughs/tips and tricks part classified ads and later "part patch/trailer/demo/mod delivery service". So I don't think it would be confusing that they had those sections in the online world too (despite dedicated "game help" sites existing. And I don't find it surprising that it was a big thing in seo terms either.

[@TheDjentleman1349]

On a side note, JP could we get a new room / pc setup tour? it's been awhile since we got the last one!

[@itmeJP]

Picture 3 normal rooms. A lot of boxes. Nothing fancy. That is the house right now. It's not much! Haha. I'll do something once I get situated in a couple years whenever I buy again.

[@clayham5710]

@@itmeJP Best wishes as you get settled in!

[@Glowbox3D]

As a film and voice actor, 3d artist, and audiobook editor in LA, I'm husslin' ova' here. I absolutely believe we should keep as much human artistry in digital entertainment as we can. I'm totally pro human...but...I urge digital artists and performers to keep abreast on AI tech, learn it, know it. Don't stick your head in the sand or run at AI with pitchforks. This genie is out of the bottle, and it's not going away. And the models we are using today will be exponentially improving every year. We have to learn to leverage these new tools, while keeping what we create as hands-on and human has possible. In the beginning, some companies or individuals will be shunned for using AI, but those that shun AI will fast become obsolete. If you want to keep creating for a living, learn the tools in anticipation of the coming storm. Love you guys.

[@TheWolfSharp]

Fantastic episode, didn't know you guys uploaded these here. Loved the question from JP at 46:09, was wondering why Cohn had skipped "Hellblade 2" as well.

[@emzdanowicz2775]

Worth noting that Digital Foundry is NOT owned by Eurogamer (or whatever their "mother" company was owned). DF is independent and they just had a deal with Eurogamer to publish their stuff on there. So we won't see DF implemented into IGN channels.

[@spartapartypants]

But did DF use other eurogamer resources? I thought some of the other contributors worked for eurogamer? Hopefully not!

[@kimthemisfit]

Should inform Zeke that Redmayne apparently said he very much enjoyed himself when filming Jupiter Ascending. LOL EDIT: Specifically that he loved the freedom he had (to ham it up).

[@megascoops]

Zeke is right. The v rising doorways used to be arches, but aren't anymore. Not sure why that was changed. Probably to reduce clipping of cosmetics.

[@tbone802]

The Hellblade 2 accessibility settings let you set sprint to be a toggle, so you don't have to hold down L1 the whole time.

[@nanoflower1]

Now that Jesse has seen REMO WILLIAMS we should get the Dropped Frame crew to watch the movie. It's a much better bad movie than JUPITER ASCENDING.

[@tropicata]

The "preorder for x days early access" model is scummy because if you think about it, it isn't actually giving you early access - it's an artificial delay for everyone else that pays the regular price. That's what makes it understandably frustrating for many people

[@Horazio1987]

Thanks Guys for a new relay awesome Episode of my favorite Jupiter Ascending Fan Cast!

[@KagedWhizDumb]

Arrested Development is my throw on for background show. Great watch 👍

[@Frosh]

Thank you for another great episode. Always good to see Dan on. looking forward to your Keigh3 coverage.

[@thethirdfrog]

The West Wing rules, I am with JP!

[@iJGrimmX]

In regards to Cohh's Audio Book discussion, for a fun funny book series I highly recommend Craig Alanson's Expeditionary Force Series. The audio books are narrated by R.C. Bray who is an amazing vocal talent. The series goes in places you wouldn't imagine from where the series starts, but it is very funny and just immensely enjoyable. I listen to them on audible and usually listen to them when I'm driving, doing chores, etc.

[@kenneyc]

Pretty sure the interior arches were removed in Vrising when multi story building was added. I miss them too.

[@Janman1988]

Dan is always a blessing to have on the show! Tho last EP was also great as it was really different.

[@Chaoscrider404]

the true rogue-like, where the game is generated every run, not just the map...

[@seppoonmelkonen]

Cohh should focus more on his co-hosts and less on interacting with his chat and picking random comments from the chat. Just something I've picked on that's a bit annoying.

[@NathanOutdoors911]

I think Cohh should do whatever he wants and enjoys lol

[@seppoonmelkonen]

@@NathanOutdoors911 Just saying that as a viewer/listener it's annoying when he interrupts his co-hosts because he wants to read some "funny" comment from his chat.

[@Dopesaur]

Not to discredit Cohh too much, but he's actually been doing this for way more than most people who only watch the vod version would realize. Cohh has in the past picked up points and jokes from his chat, but I think they've (Him and the other hosts) have gotten more used to specifically crediting the source of a joke or quip. I remember watching this show live a couple times, on occasion someone finds something funny in chat and slides it in, in a more natural way. If you didn't happen to spot the message in the chat during the show, you probably wouldn't even know that it was from chat. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, or even with what you're saying. Interrupting people happens naturally in conversation, it sometimes is grating because of this being a show and not a random conversation between friends. I wonder if those people feel betrayed that they didn't get credited for their bit, or honoured that it got mentioned at all.

[@Dopesaur]

JP, the timestamp for Vrising in the description has a typo.

[@LucarinaD20]

We went from "we should call out people using AI so that it doesn't become abusive" last episode to "AI is amazing" this episode. Really miss Jesse and Rami in this ep

[@Mako2401]

AI is the future, you can embrace it or pretend it doesn't exist and be left behind.

[@HckrNeo1]

AI is the FUTURE. As of now, it's a hallucinating lie riddled mess that's being trained on gobs of stolen content. Its current format warrants more caution than trust, regardless of what the techbros in silicon valley say while they try to sell their new buzzword to VC firms

[@Emma_Z1]

Rami is always so based

[@Emma_Z1]

@@Mako2401 The future is capitalism and that's the problem

[@jasonx9591]

@@Emma_Z1 Deal with it.

[@LinkinParkConnoisseur]

This one was great to watch live! And thanks to coh for replying to 2 of my questions during the spoilers section.

[@Zendien]

Cohh making fun of the euro while Americans measure weight in elephants!

[@losvikings2584]

3:45 That “oh” 😐 Lol

[@tomaac]

The money symbol is Quake bucks, that's why it's sideways quake 2 logo.

[@c5on]

I don't believe that ItmeJP can read.

[@danutz_plusplus]

"Hellblade 2 not graphically impressive." Hellblade 2 looked good but nothing to take note of" Holy shit, you guys either need to wash your eyes or I have no idea what you guys were watching. Maybe it's because of playing it on console at a faraway distance? I really can't explain it. It's on a whole new level of graphical fidelity. Cyberpunk which looked great on a powerful rig doesn't looks 50% close to this level of image quality and sharpness. What the hell are people smoking ... (rofl)

[@kephalai]

it looks the same, so its boring. nobody cares about what a technical achievement it is. it just doesn't look new nor exciting

[@zeneage]

Best graphics I've ever seen. I spent 10 minutes just walking around looking at wet rocks in the first area. Definitely a step up from Alan wake 2 which was the game I'd have previously put at the top for gfx

[@danutz_plusplus]

@@zeneage exactly. it's literally on another level, on PC especially if you have a monster rig. Though it is also very demanding at high resolutions. I've spent most of the game capturing screenshot. Don't think I ever did it to this degree on any other game. People saying it's just a unremarkable improvement over the first one need to get their eyes checked. :D

[@yorkick19]

Streamers that don't play a game for subjective reasons are many times trying to find "objective" reasons to explain why they don't. Just saying the game doesn't fit your style or preferences is somehow forbidden these days? I don't really understand. Games are very subjective and people are depending so much on reviews, scores, ratings, and objective indicators, it's insane.

[@woozie3241]

DAN DAN DAN. we love Mr. Daniel S. Gaming

[@williampounds5191]

Druckmann's a hack and AI for writing is going to be nothing but slop.

[@Goobzor]

well the whole point of the 2nd game is to accept the voices and move on to be able to live a normal life and even help people. vs the first game that was about not wanting to accept herself and the grief of her husband's death. and the giants are not real. they are the things these people in these small villages cant accept or get over. the first town could not help the women with her baby, leading to her and her babies death. the 2nd village is about getting over trust issues. the whole town was betrayed and were not able to get over it. the 3rd village has a great leader that helped his people survive in the past but they cant see he is lying to them about a threat and they cant see though their full trust of this man. you have to show he is a weak feckless leader using fear to control them. so seeing zeke started to not listen to the voice is great on the devs part as its the whole point. the whole first game she is reacting to the voices as something bothering her. the 2nd game she only does so when they get really mean or load.

[@ryantansey1437]

Dan and 'chat' saying HB2 isn't really that graphically impressive or a leap in fidelity is absolutely insane to me.

[@Emma_Z1]

is easy to make a game like that look good with UE5, there is not a lot of things going on and is very small and short. I don't think is impressive as like Cyberpunk or Alan Wake 2

[@ryantansey1437]

@@Emma_Z1 I completely disagree. It is as impressive as Cyberpunk and Alan Wake 2 with path tracing from a fidelity and technical standpoint; a massive leap from HB1 and one of if not the best image quality on the market today. Alan Wake 2 isn't exactly doing a whole lot of special stuff either that Hellblade isn't doing as well.

[@ryantansey1437]

and saying "it's easy with UE5" is a complete disregard for the talent at NT. Look at Lords of the Fallen, Robocop, and Immortals of Aveum and Hellblade 2 has no visual downsides unlike all of those games also on UE5

[@Emma_Z1]

​@@ryantansey1437 because those are games not a 5 hour movie buddy

[@ryantansey1437]

@@Emma_Z1 you clearly have never worked in a game engine before. Just stfu

[@swedishZ0mBi3]

Dan the man!

[@nokturnallex2160]

There's successful hero shooters? I'm a pretty avid gamer, but the only hero shooter I noticed that was semi-successful at least to start was Overwatch, but I never paid for anything more than the base game. Every other hero shooter I know has been massive failures. Even monetarily. Like they shut down their servers. Not to mention all the ones with terrible anti-cheat that are just full of cheaters.

[@Paragleiber]

I think Valorant is pretty successful as well.

[@silenceyouidiot]

@@Paragleiber That's always a weird thing to consider, Ubisofts Six Siege is a hero shooter technically, right? I guess the confusion is more-so that this is a hero shooter in the style of a MOBA, ala Smite or Battleborn where creeps go through lanes and you can go around and take down 'jungle creeps.' As a Dota fan I don't really have interest in trying a different game, especially when this looks so muddy and grey. Considering how Artifact went, if Valve does release this I don't see it having the success of TF2 at all.

[@Dopesaur]

I feel like the term "Hero shooter" is being used too broadly in the context of their conversation. I could be wrong of course. But to me it seemed like Hero shooter here was referring to more generically, shooting games with characters and abilities, not necessarily team based like overwatch or Team fortress. Like, if I wanted to really split hairs, Battlefield 2042 could be described as a hero shooter. Now, I think that's a dishonest way of describing it, but it does fit the bill. I think, based on that, Hero shooters are successful, because they can monetize skins and the like. I don't think we're ever going back to buying a game for 40(currency) and just playing the game and enjoying all of its features. Microtransactions make an unethical amount of money.

[@DE499-l5w]

DAN ai IS HERE already. music making,item making,story writing, world creating . he talks like its years away . suno and udio is here go check them and make music and blow your mind

[@johnvaldez5236]

It was a short game that felt way too long

[@Kinslayu]

I don't think xbox "has" to show their long term roadmap at summer game fest. I know you guys want to hear about future xbox games as soon as possible, but at the end of the day either the games are good or not. Doesn't matter when we hear about them

[@vincesergi7339]

I think Cohh is partially right, and partially wrong about SGF, even if a bunch of projects are announced, how many cancellations have we seen in the past few years of huge projects. Them announcing a lot of projects mean nothing anymore. Until I play the game, or its like a week away, your game doesn't exist for me.

[@Kasaaz]

I think the Pilestedt thing is just getting out in front of speculation.

[@chalando6124]

Im really enjoying 33 immortals!!!!!!!!!!! I think its fucking cool AF and will be BIG

[@gabrielhedin1697]

Good crew this. :)

[@Lemon_Chicken_Yo]

Yo, DansGaming 👍

[@IOSARBX]

itmeJP, I really enjoyed watching this, so I hit the like button!

[@wabajabatrektoe]

Sounds like a ign monopoly how was that allowed

[@Krim_The_Crow]

A lot of the AI arguments in this episode, particularly from Dan, seem to hinge on if the AI is good at doing it or not. Are we really just accepting a future where AI does the creative stuff once it's "good" enough at it? That seems like a bleak future to me.

[@bobbob-cd9yl]

It’s consumerism, in the end most gamers honestly don’t see it as art

[@nelliott500]

I think part of their thought process is this shit's gonna happen whether you want it to or not.

[@dsagent]

Hellblade and Homeworld 3 were disappointments. They missed what made the previous games great.

[@Razzying]

God i missed dan and his jokes.

[@enlightendbel]

Most people play Cod and Fifa, not Madden.

[@Machobunni]

So.... D4 made itself more like PoE, and its better? Ironic

[@kl0bba]

everytime i heard zeke talk im thinking "zeke please clear your throat !!!"

[@cipherenigma]

IGN is still profitable? Profitable enough to buy other companies??

[@Patharoth]

In regards to Helldivers 2. Apparently the community have been fairly vocal about their displeasure with the games current balance. Not just recently, people have been upset about AHs "balancing patches" as they've been mostly nerfs, to the point that it has had a negative impact on the community, as well as the player count. As a comparison, imagine if Palworld started nerfing fun things right away, instead of bug fixing. In the Helldiver's community, it came to the point that people started asking other's to not talk about weapons on different social platforms, to avoid them getting nerfed. It is likely a meme, but it also reflects the communities sentiment (a popular one at that), and the community being tight lipped about weapons will only be problematic for the devs. As such, people have on multiple occasions complained to Pilestedt on Twitter, as most people see him as a voice of reason (aside from obviously being the owner of AH). It was mentioned that he (Pilestedt), had arranged meetings, for a internal push to get balancing right. Furthermore, Pilestedt himself has also agreed that they've gone too far in terms of balancing in some areas. Pilestedt becoming CCO means he'll be able to spend much more time working with the team on the game, I imagine communicating with them directly will also be easier. I think a lot of people are hoping that with him being CCO now, game balance is going to - hopefully - be better. He has already mentioned TTK being too long and wanting to look into it. Don't know if any of the DF guys will read this, but just what I've experienced / heard these past few weeks. As always, a good episode and a good show :)

[@sliceofheaven3026]

Its amazing how none of the dropped frames members mentions gamepass and how cheap it is in comparison to for example the price of the game on steam. I wonder if this is because gamepass really doesnt pay sponsorships to streamers so they avoid mentioning it for that reason. Just seems weird not to mention it if someone wants to play the game and avoid paying 50 bucks. If someone would ask me if i want to pay 50 bucks or between 9 to 15 bucks for a 5 to 6 hours long game I know what i would give as a advice.

[@Dopesaur]

If you're talking about their conversation on Senua's Sacrifice, I think they did mention Gamepass later in the discussion. Specifically to say that the game is worth playing through gamepass, but not worth buying full price. For most people, that is.

[@sliceofheaven3026]

@@Dopesaur Good if that is the case. Seem to have missed that mention.

[@kephalai]

any game under 20 hours and are just walking simulators towards the next cutscene is automatically never buy. if im curious enough i'd just watch youtube of it

[@sliceofheaven3026]

@@kephalai Sure but if the game is included in the gamepass why not play that game also. It doesnt make your gamepass subscription more expensive.

[@gilney.mathias]

I'm not playing V Rising till they add the option to craft from containers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@nicholasg.5441]

It sounds like hellblade is getting the hifi rush shove out the door, which kind of sucks

[@sumireravenclaw8034]

I mean this is only season 4 of diablo. the whole leveling super fast is probably only for season 4. and by season 5. it will probably be changed to put back to leveling slow. A lot of this will probably be changed again in season 5

[@TheParens]

Zele confusing astrology with astronomy lol

[@tonyranallo8306]

E3ley

[@Shinius]

33 Immortals being Epic exclusive, so it'll basically not exist on PC. That's a shame.

[@godsbane13]

With hellblade I think there missing the point that the voices are supposed to be how people with real scitzomania say it is. It’s supposed to be unrelenting and all the time.

[@reshypoo9447]

I can't think of any way to ask this without sounding rude, but it's been bugging me for years. Is Zeke like an (ex-)smoker or is there something wrong with his throat?

[@Dopesaur]

I think he's a current smoker, unless he's quit since I've heard him say it last. What makes you say that? Did he cough at some point in particular or something?

[@reshypoo9447]

@@Dopesaur No, it's just his voice. It has a grating edge to it, like he needs to cough or something. Being a smoker explains it, he's probably having to exert slightly more effort to speak. I don't follow his channels, only see him on dropped frames, so wasn't sure if he'd had throat issues in the past or something.

[@megamcee]

Let's gooo

[@dodo7ger]

Quite a shame about why Cohh is skipping Hellblade 2. I can understand that there are plans, but anyone who skips it is missing out on another experience. You certainly need to buy into the game though. Saying its too expensive for the play time...I dont agree with how much work was put into this. I would have gladly paid, but I suppose its all up to taste. I actually finished it after 7.5 hours, which already shows how much more into it I was and I will replay it. I like the ending. It is a game and ending you need to think about. What does it all mean, especially taking her psychosis into the equation. Let me pose a question: Are there even really giants there? Im just a bit sad that it is getting bashed so much here, no wonder all big publishers are consolidating stuff and pushing the "big" games.

[@Mako2401]

Nah buddy the game was terrible. Cohh is smart to avoid it.

[@repo1987]

Sounds like he skipped because he didnt get an early key, Cohh is all business these days

[@Mako2401]

@@repo1987 Cohh played Wrath of the Righteous for 200 hours. Do you think that was a good business decision? It's ok to admit the game was bad.

[@repo1987]

@@Mako2401 i didnt even play hellblade wtf are you talking about lmao. Cohh played WOTR because he loves the genre.

[@KittiesandMilk]

@@repo1987 he said he got a key the day before release

[@nihlify]

With AI you can tell stories in video games that would be IMPOSSIBLE to do with human writers. You can have a game where the story adapts and respons to ANY input from the gamer. That's not something feasible with just writing infinite amount of code.

[@Mako2401]

I still don't understand why Rogue Trader didn't use a ln AI model for voice acting. They lost so many players because their game wasnt voiced completely.

[@jamalbayliss8523]

The voice actors were good u just have to pay them and everyone involved in bringing voice into the game for the time it takes to do all of it.

[@sumireravenclaw8034]

I mean AI would be great in games with side stories. especially with side characters where you can ask them. like take the Skyrim AI mod. it's absolutely amazing. sure it needs soem work to get 100% but it's amazing for what it does. Also cohh complains about using AI in story telling or dialogue yet used AI mod in WoW when he was playing that OG server or w/e it was where there was ZERO voice acting so the AI would just voice ALL of hte lines. that's why AI is great. I WANT EVERYTHING to be voiced. Look at games like yakuza? or person. where TONS of liens weren't recorded.

[@KittiesandMilk]

yeah but wow is like 18 years old, so using AI to get some VA for something that will never ever get VA is not a big deal.

[@sumireravenclaw8034]

Technically there is a rumor that Hell blade 2 is coming to ps5 also. so I wouldn't even consider it a 1st party.

[@itsRiske11]

Even if it comes to PS5 it's still a Microsoft owned studio so yes, it is a first party title.

[@sumireravenclaw8034]

It is shocking that cohh skipped Hellblade 2 because he does have the 2nd one on his KZbin. but guess it's okay because the game series is meh at best. lol, plus there are far better games he could play. then again he is playing garbage souls games..... so yeah, guess that is reminding me why I haven't watched him on stream or any new games in months.

[@RadiantMan08]

A whole circus over here

[@sj1547]

Sounds like he didn't validate your purchase, and now you're upset.

[@kayneg9941]

I like how you dismiss common opinion and have an elitist stance. Lots of people love souls games, probably arguably alot more than hate, streaming is a business, he is not here to appease you and your silly little desires

[@foreignuser_]

hellblade 2 is trash. there i spoiled it coh now you can play it

[@strawman3030]

Jupiter Ascending is a legit great film tho