Should You Buy Kaleidescape or madVR for Your Home Theater?

A question I get often is "should I buy a Kaleidescape or a madVR (or Lumagen)". Here's my take on this question and some elements to consider in making the best choice for you if facing this home theater dilemma.
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0:00 Kaleidescape or madVR? Which to Buy?
0:39 Buy the Kaleidescape
2:07 Buy the Video Processor
3:12 Beware Opportunity Cost
5:00 New Models & Old Deals
6:28 My Choice
8:07 Is It Really Either Or?
9:21 What Will You Buy?
#hometheater #kaleidescape #madvr

[@Techthusiasm]

I am a certified Kaleidescape dealer and am adding more home theater brands as well. I can help add Kaleidescape to your system or upgrade your Kaleidescape gear. Contact me through www.jaremypyle.com for more information. Thanks!

[@TechinaSec101]

Its simple, Never a Kaleidescape ( just get a Zidoo player ), If you have a cinema scop screen, then get a Lumagen, not a MadVR. If you have a 16:9 then it really is not that crucial other then HDR Tone Mapping. Note: the new motion feature that MadVR is pushing now.... Zidoo has it also.

[@Techthusiasm]

I agree with the 16:9 making the processor not crucial and that Lumagen has a lot of value over madVR with the cost differential. I wouldn't say never a K though. :)

[@dc2044]

JP as usual your on point. I purchase the k-scape many years ago then the processor. It’s quite expensive . I enjoy both. Thanks

[@Techthusiasm]

Thanks!

[@CJ-er1pf]

Thanks for sharing this. I am really looking into Kaleidescape. I am tired of ripping moves and I think it's time to move on. I want to come home, put on my system and look at movies. So I'm doing my research into what unit would work best for me.

[@Techthusiasm]

Come on in! I think a Strato C plus 12TB Terra C (if you can still get one) is the sweet spot if buying new. I found 6TB to be a little limiting on space with K. Check with Audio Advice, of course, and the sale going on still here in June.

[@rolandkoller5985]

Both! Kaleidescape + Lumagen

[@Techthusiasm]

Right!

[@vikasgoyalgzs]

I grabbed prev gen madVR envy at a 40% discount. It is the GOAT when it comes to DTM. Love the imax curved screen with amazing HDR content! Super happy with it and thankful to my AV dealer for the idea!

[@Techthusiasm]

Nice!

[@Lbmwm3]

I just got my Kaleidoscape System and used your Referral Code. Thanks for making this video. I was stuck between a MadVR and Kaleidoscape. So I opted for The Kaleidoscape Ecosystem. Hopefully, this time next year or sooner a MadVR. But you are solid on the information. Thanks again😉!!!

[@Techthusiasm]

Awesome, thanks! I did see a referral come in. Did you get your store credit too?

[@Lbmwm3]

@@Techthusiasm Yes indeed 👍🏾😉. Thanks Honestly, I feel likes kid in Candy store😉 Please keep producing your content, Sir. Heavily contemplating get a C player in the family room. Thanks

[@Techthusiasm]

Excellent! Thank you!

[@rmangoba]

I had this very question last Summer. I have a CinemaScope screen. I was using JVC lens memories, which work fine if you only watch movies in it (and they're almost all fixed aspect ratio). With movies, you only need to change lens memory in the beginning of the movie (and go through the pain trying to guess which aspect ratio to use if it's not a standard aspect ratio). But if you watch short content (short TV shows, KZbin content) or have lots of source devices (blu-ray, streamers), definitely get processor FIRST. If you don't have a CinemaScope screen, no question: get a Kaleidescape first. I wound up getting a MadVR Pro, and then a few months later got a Kaleidescape.

[@Techthusiasm]

Thanks!

[@48tyler24]

Kaleidescape needs to be disk to digital for 4K physical media to get me to invest in it.

[@gjhunter9326]

They do offer that now, but it's not free if that's what you are implying. Pricing is up to the studios regarding what they charge owners of the physical disk to add to your Kaleidescape library.

[@48tyler24]

@@gjhunter9326 it is only for Blu-ray’s and dvd not 4Ks unfortunately.

[@gjhunter9326]

@@48tyler24 yes that's right. Wasn't thinking about that when you specified 4k physical media.

[@adamjj85]

+1 They need to acknowledge that the enthusiasts also own a lot of physical 4k's that should be able to import

[@Techthusiasm]

Keep in mind you don't have to have 4K disc support in the D2D program. You can redeem 4K rights in the store, often as low as

[@cbrown1472]

Great content. I went with a mix solution with Kscape and HDFury Vrroom. I have a 16x9 and a cheaper projector so I just needed a processor to boost the hdr. HDFury works well for a cheap price. Might be worth trying it out for the channel and compare to the Madvr and Lumagen as a cheap alternative if you don’t need the aspect ratio changes.

[@Techthusiasm]

Nice! I'm definitely in the camp that needs the other processor features.

[@golfparadisetour]

Excellent Video!!!!

[@Techthusiasm]

Thanks!

[@Terrell1428]

Good morning Tech.I have a 1st Gen strato 6Tb.Should I get the mad or lum next?

[@Techthusiasm]

How much money are looking to spend? Do you want to try out and use the heavier processing algorithms of the madVR? Or are you just looking for a basic processing features?

[@Australia852]

I would love to get a kscape but how long will they last?

[@Techthusiasm]

It's been 20-something years so far, so good for K. The only real danger is if Apple or someone else decides to mass stream movies in high/lossless bit rates.

[@MrCtmcclain]

I didn't know about the mad vr labs video processor, thank you very much.

[@Techthusiasm]

Sure thing! I hope to be able to demo one and cover it here. We'll see. If you're shopping for one, definitely consider Audio Advice. :)

[@MrCtmcclain]

@@Techthusiasm good to know thanks.

[@JamilMoledina]

I think “which first” is a very perceptive conclusion. I was thinking that halfway through the video! For me it’s K in 24 and Luma in 25.

[@Techthusiasm]

If you need help sourcing either of these, please reach out. I can connect you to some great folks that are partners to the channel. You can really help me out going through my affiliates for devices like these and get great service and pricing.

[@golfparadisetour]

It will be very helpful if you make a video of the differences between MadVR & Lumagen

[@Techthusiasm]

Hopefully I can get a madVR to demo coming up.

[@vicentepostiganogueira8215]

Using a JVC NZ9 with a Kaleidescape, adding a Madvr Envy Mk2 would bring a substantial improvement to the image? Or just a small improvement?

[@Techthusiasm]

That trifecta of video would be end game. You'd have every angle of your video covered (along with an Apple TV for streaming of course).

[@vicentepostiganogueira8215]

@@Techthusiasm Yes, I got an AppletvX with external power supply. But do you think the Madvr Envy mk2 would bring an important improvement to the image? Or just a small improvement?

[@Techthusiasm]

Do you have a scope screen?

[@vicentepostiganogueira8215]

@@Techthusiasm No, 16:9 133”.

[@Techthusiasm]

Then the video processor won't do as much for you as it might otherwise. You're basically paying for superior HDR processing and other image processing features. It's a lot to spend for that, but people do it. I don't know your budget.

[@sammie_prescott]

In my case I got both at the same time roughly as it was all when I was building my theater so they were all planned for. Well the kscape was more of a why not last min addition but I had planned on having a video processor because I had got a scope screen and DCR lens when I was purchasing everything. Within a few weeks of getting stuff installed I got my lumagen, which is what I had originally, and within 2 weeks of that I got my kscape. They are big investments but they really are something you buy once and you really don't need to upgrade them. Though with that said I do need more storage for kscape so will likely be getting a terra 22 sooner rather than later and I will honestly probably do terra 22 and strato c and move the strato s 12 to living room, unless I can find a good deal on a 2nd hand terra 18 or even better an amazing deal on a terra 48 lol. I will also likely be moving from Extreme MK1 to MK2. So even though one doesn't need to replace them or upgrade there are some scenarios where one might. It really comes down to application and what one is trying to accomplish as well as ease of use. Having a VP makes it so anyone can use the theater. So if I'm not home and my wife wanted to watch a movie she won't have frustrations on how the image is displayed because a lens memory wasn't used or aspect mode wasn't changed between D or C, etc. I honestly feel the sweet spot is the Extreme MK1 trade in right now personally especially if someone has a NZ series from JVC. I would say though if someone is on the fence between getting one or the other if the "need" is there and I put need in quotes because no one needs any of this stuff lol, but if the need were there a VP is the way to go as that will solve the pain points one has while a kaleidscape will look pretty and have a level of convenience to it that you can't get with disc, and ripping, etc, but those pain points will still exist. A kaleidescape won't solve problems, it will make consuming content more convenient, where a video processor will directly solve various problems within an installation

[@Techthusiasm]

Thanks! My family could not work the lens memories of our theater without me. They would end up just watching everything in the 16:9 zoom mode. :)

[@sammie_prescott]

@@Techthusiasm yeah it’s reason’s like that exactly that show the value in a video processor. Plus it applies to all your sources where a kscape is just an additional source device. If one wants to maximize their theater a VP is the way to go assuming it can fix or help install challenges.

[@cbmore28]

YOMV but both Lumagen and MadVR are both good. Can’t go wrong with either honestly. Definitely staying out of the usual arguments that arise when owners of each square off. No doubt Kaleidescape is a convenient way to get movies but also the most costly. There are other options but they involve a bit more knowledge on ripping your collection and using a media player with built in storage or NAS, but they can be equal in performance and a bit cheaper if you’re willing to learn about the options. Jeremy, I’ve heard recently of possibly a Kaleidescape option to get credit or discounts for movies you already may own on physical media when purchasing that same movie on Kaleidescape. Maybe you could expand on that if you have more info.

[@Techthusiasm]

Thanks! I have the videos on the new disc to digital Kaleidescape program here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJLGfH2Kf7CZetU kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoKpqXyhi8dpj68

[@FrankieKennethL]

I have gotten to a place where the Kscape has moved higher and higher on my short wishlist. It started way at the bottom of the long term wishes. I already have a Lumagen so Kscape def gets my vote over going w a MadVR.

[@Techthusiasm]

For sure, you don't need a madVR with already having a Lumagen. madVR/Lumagen is an equivalent purchase for the purposes of this comparison. Come join the K club though! :)

[@FrankieKennethL]

@@Techthusiasm if I didn’t have the Lumagen and I had to make a choice of it vs a MadVR, I would buy the Lumagen all over again and it’s not even close. The MadVR leadership has done a phenomenal job marketing their product and providing dealers with a lot of motivation to push their product. but I still have huge issues w it’s pricing scheme. It also was not a good look when they bait and switched their clients with promises of upgrades to now tell them it’s system swaps instead…I think both products are very nice and if I’m rating both products without considering price, the MadVR wins out…..but unfortunately pricing is always a factor and paying twice as much for very little difference in features just doesn’t move the needle for me. I am more than happy w my Lumagen which I fortunately was able to purchase on the secondary market which made it even a bigger win for me. But I will never blame anyone with going with a MadVR because I do think it’s a phenomenal machine so if someone isn’t bothered by it’s cost, by all means getcha sum!

[@bkervaski]

So... you're leaning towards the MadVR Envy MK2?

[@Techthusiasm]

No, I wouldn't say that. I would like to hopefully get a demo/review going on one though before I end up opting to purchase a Lumagen. In my mind now, I would probably just end up with the Lumagen because it solves my problems and is much less expensive.

[@nonametofame]

I had the chance to pick up a kscape for about $2k secondhand (Strato 6tb). Just couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger. You really have to be all in with their ecosystem. It was hard to fathom the price of early release prices when I know I can get retail 4k disc for $20. And still be able to sell the code for $10. Or redeem to vudu so it's accessible when I'm traveling. I also enjoy Dolby Vision on my secondary OLED monitor. Apple's bitrate just seem to be getting better each year too. And more than half the content I watch is TV (kscape won't help you there). I think kscape is really for those who are allergic to any form of physical format. Just don't ask them about their vinyl collection in their other room 😅

[@adamjj85]

I agree that if they are charging more than the 4k disc, then this model is not sustainable. They should be charging the same or even less to make it more attractive.

[@nonametofame]

@Adam Jannetta They should follow the video game console model and make the hardware a loss leader. Brand new launches are priced way below their actual cost, but they make up for it in software sales ($70 a pop). Premium prices for brand new releases, out early, like Top Gun:M, and frequent sales for older titles. Make up the sales in volume.

[@adamjj85]

@@nonametofame Indeed that would work too. But charging a premium for the hardware AND the movies I think is where it's too much.

[@Techthusiasm]

My entry into K was an older, used Strato 6TB which I bought for right around $2k, I think, on eBay several years ago.

[@nonametofame]

@Techthusiasm if I could snag one now for $1500, I'd do it. I could at least use it a few months to justify its existence on the shelf. But then I'd be lamenting the 100+ 4k titles or so I could have purchased in disc. There are also a lot of small label boutique disc releases. Some notable recent ones are Serpico, Brotherhood of the Wolf. Plus Shout Factory and Criterion titles. Are those on kscape?

[@gregcastiglione4763]

Obviously I am missing something. Why would you not opt for an anamorphic lens for your projector BEFORE ever considering Kaleidescape or a video processor? Shouldn't the Anamorphic lens be the better purchase? Way more value and performance even though these cost 5-6K.

[@Techthusiasm]

I don't think so. I would put a lens in third. I think the processor on its own has more value than the lens on its own. The lens is only really about recapturing more light/using more pixels, but as I understand, brings along integration logistics you need the processor to handle.

[@kwokhungleung8793]

Frankly speaking , I from Hong kong Buy Lumagen first Wonderful picture Then anamorphic len I have both, this is my advice to have both

[@Techthusiasm]

Thanks!

[@abefroman.]

I know it's probably a minority opinion, but have you considered building a MadVR+VideoProcessor PC as a DIY Envy? Also, Kscape sounds great, but I like that I have all my rips on my server available for every room in my house, along with being remote if I'm at a family/friends house. Ripping is pretty easy once you get the sauce down... Also, thinking long term about a video processor, it seems like modular-display tv's will dominate in 5-10 years, so tone-mapping will most likely be a non-issue and we will have the opportunity to maximize our wall space with connected panels. So with that thought in mind, does a $$$$ processor have legs to beat that in the future? My first instinct in no, displays and AI/tech in tv's are only going to get better. I think today's compromises will be behind us faster than a ROI on something like a full Envy.

[@Techthusiasm]

I don't have any interest in madVR on PC. I don't play rips on a PC as my primary source of content, so I need any video processor to be able to work with Apple TV and Kaleidescape. I know there are capture cards and ways to work around that, but I don't really have any interest in getting into that complexity either. I'd rather just have the fully supported, real thing when I get one. I agree and contend that flat panels and similar types of displays won't need a processor. To me, the value is for certain types of projector setups. If those setups go away, then processors should diminish. But I think it'll be a long time before we are installing large scale size modular systems at generally available prices.

[@nickz6143]

Imagine if any of these options were actually reasonable in terms of price to performance. They are all wayyyy too expensive. The reason I say this is because many people already convince themselves to buy a $30,000 top of the Line JVC projector even if they aren’t really rich in the pocket book. Then to go out and spend another $20,000 on MadVR to make your $30,000 projector picture look better. Like you may as well just go and purchase the Samsung Wall or Sony Crystal Display at this point. The enjoyment of owning a Home Cinema is taken away by all of these extra add ons that suck every friggin penny out of your wallet for very little gain.

[@JLRJ]

Thanks!

[@BIGBASSSAMA_4]

Are all movies using lossless audio on kaleidescape

[@Techthusiasm]

Anything in HD or 4K quality is going to carry lossless audio like disc, yes, except for the really odd case here and there, but that's the case on disc too or least maybe some way older Blu-rays.

[@BIGBASSSAMA_4]

@@Techthusiasm don't you think it's strange no one mentions or complains you can't use any 3rd party hard drive and like an asshole they lock you out of options but to only use their 6tb and up ssd 6tb on Amazon is $200 or less like make it make sense

[@Techthusiasm]

People ask about their using their own drives with K all the time, but it won't happen. It's not secure enough and Kaleidescape exists at all by virtue of giving movie studios peace of mind that their content safe from export or copying within the platform. It is what it is. That all said, storage pricing is one of the worst aspects of the K platform, I agree.

[@BIGBASSSAMA_4]

@@Techthusiasm say if I have a storm audio isp elite mk3 avr and I watched top gun Maverick 2 on a 4k blu ray disc playing on my Xbox series x vs the kscape is there really a justified difference 👀

[@DarthBrockstar]

@@BIGBASSSAMA_4 no one (well no one educated) is saying Kscape is massively better than 4K disc. It massively more convenient. There are rare times that Kscape has a movie that’s larger file size than the disc- which infers less compression. It’s convenience and “clean-ness” that makes Kscape more desirable than disc. Streaming vs Kscape is the other arguement and it’s so different it is not even worth the discussion.

[@DarthBrockstar]

The answer to the title of this video: Yes.

[@Techthusiasm]

LOL, yep!

[@JohnnyFocal]

Kaleidescape you dont own the film you are buying a licence to watch the file you have downloaded. The licence can be revoked at any time.

[@Techthusiasm]

That's the case for any digital purchase. It's technically also the case for a disc. You don't own the film there either. You own the license to play that film off the disc.

[@JohnnyFocal]

@@Techthusiasm other than they cant stop you playing the disc or take it away from you. A digital purchase is very fragile. If the owner withdraws the right or Kaleidescape go bust you can no longer play the film. A disc will always play their is nothing they can do to stop it if the distributor goes bust or the rights holder withdraws the rights. To many people have been caught out and found that they cant access the media they bought. This happened to Sony recently with its online film store.

[@victorpulos823]

I let my projector do picture quality and have a 4k player, I don’t need nothing else

[@Techthusiasm]

Nice!

[@DarthBrockstar]

Have you ever had a chance to see side-by-side comparison? Especially with a projector?