Should you learn TRADITIONAL GRIP? (Traditional vs. Matched)

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Today I dive into one of the hottest debates of the drumming industry 😅. Can you believe it 🤷🏻‍♂️? Find out what I'm all about 🤘...

[@grantjohnston7148]

Definitely good advice to anyone at any level. Get there in the easiest most comfortable way possible. A lot of these new drummers who are unbelievably talented use match grip. Sometimes however going against the grain can be beneficial. Definitely not in this case, and only if you're comfortable doing so. One day I tried something different which was really hard to do, yet I had a feeling it would be beneficial to overall coordination, which it most certainly did. It seems the more I practice this exercise the better. And it doesn't make you mechanical , rather the opposite. It's based on the traditional triplets used in drum solos using hands and feet. Difference is you are constantly changing your lead hand which results in doubles with the bass drum in between the two left or right hand notes. My snare hand, or left hand was always my weak point, and still is. But with these exercises I have noticed a massive improvement in speed, control, and flow. I call then the swing shift triplet, Double Swing shift triplet, and swing shift triplet paradiddle. The paradiddle feels really good in the morning with coffee LOL. RL, B, LR, B, RL, B, LR, B, RL, B, LR, B, RL, B, LR, B, RL RLB, RLB, LRB, LRB, RLB, RLB, LRB, LRB, RLB, RLB, RL, B, LR, B, RL, B, RL, B, LR, B, RL, B, LR, B, LR, B, RL, B, LR, B, RL, B, RL, B hopefully this helps and doesn't make it harder to understand LOL. But if you try this and continue as a daily exercise, I guarantee you will see massive improvement. But again it only works if you're comfortable doing such an exercise. Pushing yourself, especially someone so used to traditional triplets would not help but hurt.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@@grantjohnston7148 Thanks for sharing this idea - might give it a try 🥳!

[@garywalsh9798]

Why does Buddy say it’s awkward going round the drums doing match grip and then he does it ?duhhrr

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@@garywalsh9798 🤷🏻‍♂😅

[@808drumz9]

I play matched grip, but sometimes I'll mess around in traditional grip. I've found that it feels different and I come up with different ideas while playing traditional grip.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Nice 😎.

[@underwearwolf5715]

It comes from playing a drum that is on your hip while walking on the battle field. But I love what your fingers can do with the left stick with traditional grip.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Exactly right! I actually explain it's heritage and technique in this lesson: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIXHnKyMrt6tfpI

[@joecoleman288]

Just finished a gig at a Nate Smith concert, decided to angle my snare and break out the traditional grip. Worked as intended and scratched that itch I had to play traditional grip...and on a high-level gig. So....to each his own, we're all unique, quit telling me what to do, you do you...thanks for the video, Batman!

[@casesoutherland4175]

I'll use traditional grip whenever I'm playing train beats, Chicago blues shuffles, or if I'm playing with brushes. Most of the time, I lean towards match grip. Both grips have their advantages and disadvantages, so It's best just to play according to feel. That's just me though.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

That's actually what a lot of people do - choose their grip depending on the style.

[@geoffreydlang]

Hi Simon - thanks for posting your video! I’ll be turning 65 years old this summer, and I’ve been playing professionally for almost 47 years. My influences have ranged from Ringo to Buddy, Steve (pick one..) to Manu to Phil to Danny Seraphine…and anybody in between. About 15 years ago, I started messing around with Traditional grip, and now it’s become a necessary part of my tool kit. In my case, it’s allowed me to create a certain sound and ‘feel’ that is easier to achieve than trying to replicate with Matched grip (if nothing else trad grip has been a shortcut of sorts!). I try to work on my hands daily, and always try to evenly divide my attention to both styles. As a teacher, I never preach ‘right or wrong’…the message that I try convey is that the sound being produced is the singular, most important goal any musician can achieve, and how they get their ‘best’ sound is up to them. Of course, I’ll always explain and demonstrate what I think are the most efficient - and ‘safe’ (i.e. not physically taxing) approaches to playing drums…but ultimately, it’s not my call. Thanks, again!

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

My words exactly!! Thanks for sharing 🙏🤘👍!!

[@nibbscbr]

I was in a marching band on snare so I learned traditional early. I still use it for lighter work on the kit and find it’s pretty easy to switch it up on the fly.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Very cool 😎. I switch a lot, too 👍.

[@mancuniancandidatem]

I like using traditional grip sometimes for Jazz, not just for touch and feel but also, because it limits me from overplaying. I just can't do with traditional grip what I can with match grip so, it forces me to listen for musical solutions as opposed to muscle memory taking over and playing things on the snare that don't need to be played. I sometimes practice to try and make my match grip react in the same way as my traditional grip and it is really difficult and vice versa. I think playing both ways just gives you more options.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

It does 🤘. Thanks for sharing!!

[@ric66fb]

Been playing since I was 9yrs old, 76 now and have always played traditional. My answer to anyone that says matched grip gives you more power/volume ... that's what microphones are for ... I have always let the Mic's do the work and stayed relaxed behind the kit. I've even been asked to keep it down in the past when playing without mic's in a rock band in a smaller venue, so don't see a problem here. Traditional also gives you more finesse where it's needed . Having said all that, this is just my take on it based on my exp's over the past 67yrs drumming. So use what you are most comfortable with, neither way is right or wrong.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Good point 😎

[@mikemcwilliams1181]

I am so glad that my drum instructor insisted that I learn traditional grip. I have learned that the choice of grip depends on the kind of music you're playing. For example, try playinh Brubeck's "Take Five" with match grip. You can't get nearly the finesse of traditional grip.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

That's another discussion. I believe you CAN get the same finesse with matched. Trad. has some advantages for finesse, though. As well as matched having advantages for heavy backbeats... In the end it stays a choice!

[@aldomauricioable]

yes but you are excluding almost all other kind of music bro like afrocuban, reggae, brazilian, and etc (any music where you need to play a cowbell or a jamblock sometimes with your left hand) So it is not like a big advantage, plus you have great match grip jazz drummers like Ari Hoenig and others that could prove you wrong 🤷‍♂

[@brunosco]

@@SimonSpringerMusicThat’s not another discussion, that’s the discussion I came here for based on the video title!

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@@aldomauricioable I am NOT excluding anything. Yes, for Latin styles etc. matched may surely have advantages. Most jazz drummers play traditional. Yes, Ari Hoenig and Bill Stewart are among the 1% that don't. And prove me wrong concerning WHAT? My point is: choose what's right for you - no one cares. That's pretty much my whole statement. You would know that if you had actually watched the video...

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@@brunosco Fair enough 😉

[@Kman1960]

Been playing Traditional grip since 5th grade band. Now at 60 I’ve switched to Matched Grip. I’ve found it gives me more power from my left hand and it’s easier on my shoulder especially while going around the kit.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Whatever works best for you is right! 😎

[@jamessbca]

I grew up as a drum corps snare drummer. That’s how I gained all of my chops. In my late 40’s now, my body is preferring matched.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@@jamessbca Makes total sense, if it feels right for you 😎!

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@Pir Anha Technique DOES matter. Did I ever say anything else? And great technique will feel right in contrast to "bad" motions. Check out my free technique course if you need some input 🤘.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@Pir Anha You are right here. Something can feel good at the moment, but still be "bad" or unhealthy. So I didn't mean that quote too literal. It is more an esoterical question of: does this feel right for you? Could this be more relaxed, more ergonomic? When you listen closely to your body, does it tell you to do something else instead? I just want to encourage everyone to look for the technique(s) that are the best for THEM. There are a million of techniques that are taught and some teachers insist that they are the ones who found the holy grail. I want to encourage diversity and individualism! And in terms of teaching: I personally do not teach traditional grip to any beginning drummer, especially children. I let them all start out matched. Only if they approach me themselves later and tell me that they want to learn it, that's when we deal with traditional grip - and that almost never happens. Me, as a child, I still had to learn trad. grip for classical snare drum. But I always was allowed to play and played matched on the drum kit, basically for the first 15 years of my playing. In my college years I suddenly felt the urge to check out trad., which I had never used on a drum set before. I liked it and stuck with it. Nowadays I play both grips without even thinking about it... That's where it should be for me. Not having to think about technique... And in terms of health: you can destroy your hands with both grips or stay healthy with both grips. And in terms of ergonomics: yes, matched is more ergonomic! But music is not about ergonomics. Staying healthy and performing is though, but not only...

[@GermiesCoasterYard]

Good video! I never realized this was up for debate, but I agree with everything said. I started with matched grip, but I picked up traditional and it works better for my kit, but I alternate between the two, depending on how I'm playing. There are plenty of fantastic drummers who use one or the other or both. I think debating it wastes time XD

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Exactly and thank you 😎!!

[@lowlowseesee]

the intro to this vid is hilarious lol

[@eugenemak2624]

Thank you for sharing! Your video on this topic is probably by far the least bias compared to the other ones one can find on KZbin. I thought I would share my thoughts here as well... I've been playing for about 17 years, like most drummers I started with match grip. Until I was introduced to Gadd, Weckl and Vinnie. As these are my drum heroes I began to research about traditional grip, what it is and why people use this grip. about 3 years ago i tried to learn this grip and forced myself to use it exclusively. Now i am able to play a full gig / full rehearsal session confidently and comfortably. The angle of the drums and cymbals has to change too in order to use traditional grip more efficiently and more comfortably. I was in Dave Weckl's intensive drum camp in Toronto back in 2014, he talked about using traditional grip - his advise was "If you been playing match grip your whole life, don't bother learning traditional." He also explained how his left hand is in pain after playing traditional for 40+ years doing rim shots. However he choose to maintain using traditional grip as this is what he is used to and it allows him to express himself behind the kit, There are guys that switched from trad grip to match grip recently like Thomas Lang, Gadd, Jojo Mayer because of the fatigue issue with their body. There are also guys that kept to play trad grip like Weckl, Vinnie, Keith Carlock and Virgil Donati. There are also guys that switches between the 2 grip on a regular basis like Todd Sucherman and Tommy Igoe. I do not understand the motif behind the videos where drummers trying to proof one grip is superior than the other and pointing out all the negativity of the other grip. You should play the grip you feel most comfortably and not let anyone else to tell you which to play. Trad grip is something that requires hard work and dedication to master. It does not come naturally - like crossing the right hand over the left to play the high hat on the left side in a standard drum kit set up - which we have been doing this for almost a century since the hi hat was invented. Have a great day!

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Thank you and thanks for sharing 🥳!! I am completely on board with everything you described. And Weckl: he sure has experienced some pain using trad. However he himself describes his early use of trad as a misuse. Only later did he develop his Freddie Gruber style open and fluid technique after hurting himself for years playing with too much tension. Have a great day, too! 🤘

[@eugenemak2624]

@@SimonSpringerMusic Oh for sure! Weckl adapted Freddie Gruber's concept of flow and adjust his set up according to it. he then moved his right hand fulcrum from the thumb and index finger to thumb and middle finger. It still allows a firm enough grip but not a dead grip. The left hand cradle was the most tricky part which took me at least 2 years to develop and get a fair understanding how to hold the stick, to rebound, ghosting and play rim shots. Just like learning all the basics once again.

[@rbeenz5482]

I am comfortable playing match grip, I only switch to traditional occasionally when I play jazz for a lighter touch...

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

👍 Thanks for sharing 🙏

[@mikeobrien1559]

I'm not a drummer, but every once in a while, I get out my pad and sticks and give it another whirl. This time around, I've got a new pad and sticks (both are better than what I had, noticeably so). I've been experimenting with French grip and finger playing and matched German-American grip (kind of like PBR😏). I'm starting to conclude, though, that traditional grip might be best for me. It's what I've attempted in the past and, apparently, I tried harder than I thought as it feels the most natural to me. The wrist action of traditional grip seems to be my best hope for any speed, and with arthritis creeping in (I'm 67), I need those fingers for golf.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Sure, traditional grip might feel easier, better for some people. I recently read in the Anatomy for Drummers book that it even can have some advantages, especially for Moeller technique. So the general bashing that it is technically and anatomically inferior might just be bs.

[@mattbennett9467]

Reminds me of the argument here in the UK between drivers who prefer manual (stick shift) over auto gearboxes. To me, the manual fans are really looking to validate a skill they took longer to learn and therefore don't want to lose. In reality, the vast majority of cases, auto is far superior as its quicker to learn and requires less effort. Back to drumming, I play both in the practice room, but rarely play trad as most situations I've been in don't call for it. For me personally, I can play singles and Moeller strokes faster in trad, doubles and rim shots better in matched. I've spent the last couple of years really working on balancing that up. Truth is, I really enjoy practice - it's like therapy for me. Trad players, I believe, defend their choice mostly because they were taught that way and it makes them feel a little smug, perceiving that others will look up to them as professionally trained musicians when they sit at the kit. That's not the reality these days though as in most cases, they are not as good as they think they are. Just because you hold the stick in an unusual way doesn't necessarily make you great. That's my view anyway.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Interesting comparison and thanks for sharing. My main point still is: it doesn't matter! That's what I want people to take away from this video. Make it about MUSIC, not about the way you hold a stick!

[@roguish47]

I don't even play drums, but I wanted to point out the 'a monkey/baby isn't going to grab sticks like this' is a crap argument. A monkey/baby won't grab eating utensils properly either. Much less any other instrument.

[@calmac9720]

Yes, I agree, I thought "hang on, is that true, and if it were true what on earth would it prove?!!" It did make me laugh though.

[@erikmccormick9331]

Thomas wacking the stick and saying "if you give a pair of sticks to a monkey, it's not gonna look like this!" Is so god damn jokes 😂

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

😅 The "silly" debates are pretty funny in general!

[@richmondstevenj]

Traditional grip was due to a tilted marching snare strapped to your leg.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Correct

[@ahah86]

There is never "one way is better than the other". Every technique has advantages and disadvantages according to specific contests and situations. Plus drums is all about body motion, and each body is different. Some solution might works very well for you but not for me and viceversa. The only thing that counts is the music.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

My words exactly 🙏 !!

[@michaelv.3655]

Right on spot Simon. Nothing more to add. 👍

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Thank you 🙏.

[@dennisfraser8552]

Traditional grip was originally for marching drummers not drumkits kits in general.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Yep. It was "invented" long before drum kits existed.

[@ericallinone7840]

Yes and it's because of the drum wich is on the side

[@J0hn029]

My left arm sucks. Had 4 ops on it and it goes blue and aches like mad whenever I'm doing lots of ghost notes. What I found after switching was that I am much more comfortable playing trad grip. My left hand works so much better and honestly I've rediscovered the drums due to it. I'm even practicing playing to metal with it, which is rock hard but well worth it. I love trad and it saves me from quitting injured

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Thanks for sharing and all the best for you and your arm ❤!! It's great that you found a way to make it work 💪!!

[@roydavis246]

...I found traditional grip to be a bit more comfortable with brush techniques...

[@axelbjefs]

"Feels right" is a cop-out. There are two grips and one of them is better. But people are going to do what they want. Sticktwirling is useless too but people still do it to look flashy.

[@daveshere]

If you are playing heavy metal, then of course matched grip! But....if you want to groove , funk, or jazz, . . Then there is no better way to play than traditional!. also...it may very for each individual player

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

It definitely varies. Also, it doesn't depend on the style. You can play metal with trad and jazz with matched - no problem.

[@solidsnake.lelilelalelo]

As someone who is just learning to play a drum kit, I have learned both and usually just switch up my grip

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Good idea 😉.

[@benedict3178]

Schön mal etwas Neues zu diesem Thema zu hören !

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

🙏🥳🤘

[@InnocentAbyssinianCat-eb7ge]

It doesn't matter you can use both technique just means feeling the most comfortable with your playing

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Exactly!

[@sunoverbeach]

When you go to the bakery do you prefer bread made by a right-handed baker or by a left-handed baker?

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

I don't eat bread.

[@petemininni5671]

I've ALWAYS switched up between both, even during the same song! I don't know, I'm kinda nutz like that!!

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Me too sometimes 😅

[@jeffreywegener8841]

Nice post. And glad you mentioned Tommy Igoe . But Thomas Lang got it wrong as Rob Brown played and won drum offs playing trad grip left handed. He just got it wrong but he did well . Ergonomics etc Rick Dior has said traditional grip can take advantage of the weak hand . The truth . Tommy “ who cares .. but I play both “ Options . 🙏 btw Lang got tendinitis. And changed . Neil Peart learned trad later in his career.

[@okamu1120]

とても参考になりました。 トラディショナルグリップは日本ではレギュラーグリップと呼ばれます。 カッコよいと思いますが、ほぼマッチドグリップで演奏してしまいます。

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Thanks for your comment. I google translated it and think, I got must of it 😎.

[@brunosco]

I came here to know if I should learn it, if it will bring me some technical advantage to learn it. You say no one cares, just pick what’s best for you… Well, back to the question then: should I learn it or not? Maybe I’ll need to try and found out by myself… And BTW, my 13-year-old daughter took the sticks after seeing me play in *matched* position and… she naturally picked it with the *traditional* grip! I’m not trying to argue or make a point, just bringing an interesting observation by which I was the first to be surprised. Actually that’s even why I was inspired to look into it.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

You're giving yourself the answer in your first paragraph: try and find out by yourself 😉! And very interesting story about your daughter. I never heard of a child intuitively picking up sticks in trad grip before...

[@philoneill9865]

Tony Williams switched between traditional grip and matched grip in the middle of a drum lick, then back again. So, I’ll run with that.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Good luck 😅

[@DevonHberman-im6bx]

All of you saying that traditional is inferior because it gives you less dexterity and you have to tilt the drums to accommodate it are clearly demonstrating the percussive inferiority (jk) which comes with not having marched snare before 😂😂😂 marvel at a left hand which is absolutely as functional in traditional or match at every rudiment that I can play Coming from a “percussionist” background instead of a “drummer” one makes a big difference usually because you’ve had an extraordinary amount of focus on your hands that I find most self-taught “drummers” lack, though not all self-taught “drummers” are afraid of a rudiment and etude book. But in all seriousness, if you’ve the background of a marching snare drummer then your hands are completely accustomed to playing on a flat drum with traditional grip; and it transitions over to drum-set with almost no issue. About the only real limitation I can think of is it’s incredibly hard to nearly impossible to rim shot the 2nd tom on a standard 3 tom rock kit. That’s about it 🤷‍♂️ But stylistically I can think of a few things which traditional grip lends an advantage to 100%: Cross sticking because you wanna cross stick with the fat end of the stick on the rim, the stick pressed into the head rimshot that you you hear in jazz sometimes is much easier traditional, crossing wrists for tom fills is easier, and at least for my hands; anything which requires me to do triple bounces with my left hand is much easier traditional. The only genre(s) I play match are metal. That is really the only genre(s) that should be played match, at least to me metal, and perhaps punk too, are only genres where playing traditional will render the music nearly unplayable. Anything else can be pretty easily played traditional if you don’t suck at traditional grip.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

I totally agree. It's completely absurd that so many people are saying it's impossible to play trad. for this and that - while SO many players do exactly that SUCCESFULLY! It's all just a matter of what you're used to and what you've practiced. And if you prefer to tilt your snaredrum away for you for trad: so what?! Some people like to sit low, some high - angles on drums are also just a matter of preference. I don't hear anyone say: He has to play with a very loose spring tension - he's stupid!....The majority of all people bashing traditional grip are people who fail(ed) to do it...

[@Augfordpdoggie]

Match grip is better....and neil proved that. Listen to buddy criticizing all of his fills were the same

[@nikolamiskovic3923]

The Professor and Mr. Rich said it..

[@2002bonzo]

2 of the greatest..Buddy and Virgil. Both traditional.???

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

And Weckl, Gadd, Colaiuta, Carlock, Sucherman, Jojo, ALL the jazz greats....

[@U2WB]

I’ve been playing traditional grip for my entire drumming life. I’ll go ahead and say it: In my opinion it’s superior. Most of the “non-serious” drummers I’ve known hacked away with matched grip, while most of my drumming idols have played traditional. Buddy Rich, Steve Smith, Stewart Copeland, Steve Gadd, Vinny Caliuta, Tommy Igoe, Dave Weckl, Todd Sucharman - can’t all be wrong. Joe Morello, who was open to either grip, still pointed out to me that angling the snare drum down in front and up in back to accommodate matched grip forced a drummer to “play uphill”. “You’re fighting gravity !” he would say.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

All those greats can't be wrong, true. However, it was a different time, where people were pretty much all taught to play trad. grip, at least in higher education programs. That's not the case anymore. If all those players you named above would have had a "choice", I'm sure some of them might have chosen matched. Yes, I know, they HAD a choice. But still, it was a different time coming out of the great Jazz era, where EVERYBODY played trad. This has changed. I am 80 % trad. myself. Still, I would not call it superior. My earlier drum heroes pretty much all played trad., too. That's why I chose it. However, today I have lots of drum idols, who absolutely KILL playing matched (Gergö Borlai, Nicolas Viccaro, Matt Gartska, Larnell Lewis.... to name just a few).

[@travisjohnson7065]

Those drummers didn't choose to play it because it was "superior". They only played that way because it was how they were taught, and they got used to it. Same reason you or anyone else does. Literally the only reason it exists is because it was easier for marching with drums mounted on the side, hundreds of years ago, and it became a tradition. Not for any practical reason with regard to playing, but because it used to be necessary. It used to be tradition to write on papyrus with carved reeds, and there are people who did it well, but that doesn't mean it was superior.

[@U2WB]

@@travisjohnson7065 You're welcome to your opinion, as am I.

[@Djacob_]

I thought traditional grip came from the fact that marching drums used to be attached to your leg and hip. Traditional grip made it easier to play since the drum was on your left side. So to me, trad grip is nothing but show. I do it just for fun every now and then.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Yes - that's where it came from! I explain it in this lesson: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIXHnKyMrt6tfpI Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙏!!

[@scottaugusta4843]

I get wanting to honour tradition, and I don't bash anyone who prefers a different technique than mine, but I use relatively heavy sticks and so traditional grip causes some pain at the joint where the index finger joins the hand. Feels like it's a repetitive strain injury just waiting to happen. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Hmmm... Using too heavy sticks could be a problem. However, have you tried holding the left stick a little more to the front? In trad grip, the hand is in front of the fulcrum - not behind. LOTS of people hold their trad stick too far to the back - which can work with lighter sticks, but definitely not with heavier ones... Maybe this lesson could help 😉: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIXHnKyMrt6tfpI

[@MKDreieich]

Hi, sorry but the whole discussion is...So there is no point to discuss other than the ever revolving quest for THE ANSWER. If you want to fully explore also the feel side of the instrument you need to master both. Traditional grip is and was always an integral part of how to play this instrument. I can't really play traditional but I know there is a lot of "feel"-benefit (or say inspirational elements...much like different sounds inspire different ways of approaching the instrument). Even if Thomas Lang or Buddy Rich claimed one or the other way being "best" both can/could play both ways in a superb way. So if you want to shortcut and save the time go for matched and you'll not loosing a micron compared to traditional in regard to speed feel, touch, flexibility. If you are really serious about drumming you need to master both. Also some good statements on Quincy Davis' series on KZbin : kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJa5iGafjpyYmKc BTW same holds true for food technique...heel-up, heel-down etc. Only in my humble opinion. BR, Marcus

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Hi Marcus and thanks for sharing. I, too, recommend exploring both grips, because... why not?! However, everybody should do what makes the most sense to them 👍.

[@srwarrior134]

For anyone curious to watch an amazing Traditional grip player Please check out NICK PIERCE, from the band Unearth Ooooooof, that guy can go go go

[@philosophy5134]

If traditional grip is so great. Why aren't both sticks held the same way in both hands. One hand is using match grip already.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

So you agree with Thomas and Matt 😉.

[@philosophy5134]

@@SimonSpringerMusic yes. It seems there are very many incredible match grip drummers out there. Along with great traditional grip drummers also. Just seems there are a lot more match grippers.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@@philosophy5134 Matched grip is more convenient and is more associated with modern styles. So obviously there are more matched players, makes total sense. Doesn't make one grip better or worse, though.

[@philosophy5134]

It was actually Buddy in this video stating traditional grip is better. Seems he is mocking match grip.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@@philosophy5134 He is - and that's wrong in my opinion, too.

[@jeppo1185]

There's only 2 movements in drumming! The tap and the roll......Play them anyways you like, but play em well.

[@nealsausen4651]

Yeah but Thomas, human beings are NOT monkeys! (Well maybe drummers are)! Come on guys we all know BUDDY played both Grips to great advantage! Don’t you guys know BUDDY was just messing with you in that video and everybody gets all riled up everybody’s Tail feathers gets in a bunch and it’s all a big joke! listen to Buddy Rich on “Hawaiian War Chant” with Tommy Dorsey it’s on KZbin tell me what you notice about that performance of BUDDY’S on that video tell me what you see what do you notice?! Bunch of children wasting their time with this debate(?!)! Listen this debate has been going on since I first started playing drums in the Early 60s and It just never went away! (P A S Did long articles in their journals about this in the mid 60s, for instance with traditional grip you using only three muscles in your hand and wrist versus the match grip Where you Are using something like 12 or 13 muscles blah blah blah! who cares?!) I for one just ignored it! match grip became popular because the early 60s British bands like the Beatles And the stones Ringo and Charlie used the “SMASHED” grip! And it just caught on it became a “STYLISTIC” thing’ If you look in the back of the Buddy Rich book tho the photographs he’s demonstrating that matched grip or “Tympani” Grip and those pictures were taken like around 1942 or 43? Listen just be able to use both groups be flexible with both grips (or not)! And get on with it!!!!

[@nealsausen4651]

O

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Exactly. No one cares.

[@weirdissuesofsergepokh1917]

i can disagree that general non-drummers audience do not care, cause aesthetically traditional grip looks kinda more sophisticated to them and aesthetics plays a significant role in music perception.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Hmm... I really found out that almost no-one cares. Most people wouldn't even recognize my grip. And those non-musicians that do, would more often ask me: "Why are you doing that weird looking thing in your left hand?" 😉

[@weirdissuesofsergepokh1917]

@@SimonSpringerMusic hehe)) normies))

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@@weirdissuesofsergepokh1917 😅

[@jacobcasler8684]

I play traditional mirrored when i play bluegrass with brush sticks. I play match grip when i play other genres because its just not natural. This is 2024, not 1864 where were marching in a line band or 1944 where we're playing big band. Thats the most imperialist way to play ever and its not comfortable. Its easier for me to "get a workout" by doing match grip and I'd rather look like a "kid" than play like a grandpa

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

I see your point, which is a point most mainly matched grip players would make. However, it can't be said, that matched is more comfortable for everyone. Everybody is different. I've been playing trad for so long and although I nowadays prefer matched in some situations, trad feels more comfortable for me. It's just a matter of what you're used to. THAT will always be comfy. And who cares would you look like? It's about the music, the sounds you're creating. That should be your only motivation.

[@kharn4624]

So true! Only other drummers care. Hahaha. Every time I see a drummer, I look for traditional grip. In my experience, they’re more trained, rudimentally sound, and impressive.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Well, traditional grip surely shows dedication 😉-

[@Abacus-lp5rc]

0:20 das heißt, er bevorzugt, ein Affe zu sein nach seiner "Logik"?

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

Ihm geht es wohl darum zu veranschaulichen, was der natürlichste Weg wäre, einen Stick zu halten. Wie es z.B. ein Kleinkind oder ein Affe intuitiv machen würde. Aber wie gesagt: Intuition und Natürlichkeit ist nicht alles beim Schlagzeugspiel. Es gibt etliche Gründe, die FÜR traditional grip sprechen. Ergonomie gehört NICHT dazu.

[@Abacus-lp5rc]

Danke für Deine liebe Antwort, Simon, liebe Grüße aus IBK. Spielst Du einmal in IBK?

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@@Abacus-lp5rc Direkt Innsbruck leider derweil nicht, aber am 27.10. mit CLERQ in Hall 👍

[@Abacus-lp5rc]

👍

[@TheRealMattFromWiiSports]

1:10 oh boy hed be absolutely slaughtered in every category by average modern drummers especially like chris turner

[@ryanlynch290]

May the Ghost of Buddy Rich make your toilet run all night!

[@edwardk3]

Not giving the reading for traditional grip? Come on....

[@PNW_Sportbike_Life]

Traditional grip is stupid. I never understood it and I've never used it. BTW, I always preferred Neil's drumming before he got with the "great" Freddie Gruber. Something about his playing was different afterward. Hard to put a finger on it.

[@Msmith-yd7bz]

Whatever grip you play if your better than Budy Rich and Neil Peirt togeather.....then eather jealously will prdominate or someo e might listen.

[@daynelawless]

Buddy Rich was a phenomenal player and quite arrogant and also a terrible teacher. Thomas Lang is an phenomenal player and a phenomenal educator is well worth listening to very closely. Tommy Igoe is another incredible player and elite teacher and his point that no one cares except other drummers is true, but….. you need knowledge and experience and quality advice first. If Tommy was starting out today and probably adopt matt strip given that the information available now is very much different to the information available to him when he started. You are going to sound better and find the overwhelming majority of things you play facilitated much easier if you use matched grip. Traditional grip brings no advantages to your playing at all None. It is a dinosaur tradition. Also Thomas Lang‘s video with which a few quotes were borrow from thoroughly dissects this debate to end and should be watched by everyone is watching this shorter video.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

The other videos should be watched in full length - I'll put their links in the description box now! Thanks! I'm not going to address the other stuff you mentioned, though, because - again - if someone wants to play traditional (for whatever reason) they should do it! 😎

[@nealsausen4651]

BUDDY RICH didn’t teach, that’s😢 wasn’t his thing! Actually, buddy was one of the greatest teachers, but you had to learn from buddy by listening to and watching buddy and if you had any kind of head on your shoulders, and you studied his playing Style long enough, you would learn so much so don’t say that Buddy was a terrible teacher he taught by example he led by example

[@Augfordpdoggie]

Buddy was overrated he was fast sure but no creative beats or fills

[@jmzochsnrtr]

No

[@HowlingDowling]

Trad grip is stupid - because you can't do it. Go practice.

[@Cpt_Guirk]

Traditional is stupid. You're playing drums, not eating Chinese food.

[@dibber43]

Yea, Buddy Rich was stupid for using traditional grip. You make ZERO sense!!!

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

🤣 Oh man! CHINESE FOOD 😅! You got me!

[@Cpt_Guirk]

@@dibber43 He was and did you ever notice how bad his posture was. He had great facility but if straightened out his back and used matched grip he would have been better. His arguments were garbage. When he switched to match he purposefully played shitty.

[@SimonSpringerMusic]

@@Cpt_Guirk I agree with the posture part. Also, I too find his arguments here very arrogant and useless.

[@Cpt_Guirk]

@@SimonSpringerMusic There is a tape of Buddy ripping into his players. I think it's on a bus. He seemed like he could be a real prick. I've made the Thomas Lang argument before. I told people I played matched traditional. I'm sure you know the origins of traditional grip. It made sense in that case. Stewart Coleland is a strange one too. I love his creativity but the way he slams his backbeat with the traditional grip looks painful to the wrist and hand. It would be interesting to find out if drummers who've used traditional grip developed hand issues later in life. I think Max Weinberg did.