how many Aimbot Hackers to beat 100 Real Players?

[@shounic]

since these experiments keep needing more and more people, here's the secret experiment discord.. discord.gg/E2zYGKAH3q (it's just an empty discord and i post in it randomly when shit happens) preemptive faq: why didn't you make more cheat functionality?? it would take literally months instead and this would've never happened cheaters had a discord voice chat to coordinate in, regular players only had text chat (to kinda preserve the chaos of a regular uncoordinated tf2 team) oh also ofc, shoutout to all the viewers who suffered through this

[@cubekoss7547]

I was here and i suffered

[@spa7]

Epic

[@EggyB]

Oh and in my birthday too? I'm looking forward to this!

[@kristoffred]

I was the widowmaker engineer at 6:40, I lived through this one. Thanks for making these experiements possible!

[@Landjrin]

It was a nightmare, a fun nightmare, but a nightmare

[@LaserThemTheGirl]

I love how almost every time BLU made progress it wasn't because they made a genius coordinated play, but because they all just picked sniper for a while.

[@themedic7933]

Sniper is a very balanced class.

[@DarkPortall]

​@@themedic7933yeah it is it just happens that cheating is not in fact a well balanced mechanic

[@Nikkibuh]

@@trolloncio1311 You remember speedhacking allcrit heavies?

[@VentA_7]

I mean breaking the Alamo took crazy coordination and used 0 snipers

[@bruschetta7711]

@@trolloncio1311 so what are you saying is that 30 good snipers could win against 100 players? I don't buy that

[@hughjanes4883]

"oh no players all went engie" - shounic, who he himself suggest the and i quote "texan wall", as a experiment server vet i can say he both made it and talked about it on stream. The deception, was very fun to fight against tho

[@starmaker75]

Well at least "the wall" can stop cheaters and bots atleast

[@MoustachioFurioso83]

I mean, it was already established that Engineers dominate class wars, so it's only logical for them to become the nuclear option here.

[@stevefan8283]

more like Wall of Texas like Wall of Maria

[@Mantafirefly]

Turns out, the only way to fight an aimbot with perfect reactions is to make your own.

[@ifdesy]

The Great Wall of Texas

[@milliondollarmistake]

A 3rd cheat to add that might significantly change the game could be auto-airblast. With so many players it might end up being pretty good for the "hacking" team.

[@creativename773]

E believe that cheat already exists, unless you're talking about auto airblast on a player getting close to you

[@Die-Coughman]

​@@creativename7738:02 explanation for why the commenter suggested adding auto-airblast

[@TheMotorhead30]

@@creativename773 they meant for the server-side cheat experiments

[@eclipserepeater2466]

@@creativename773 This experiment was just with aimbot and wallhacks.

[@TheTdw2000]

@@creativename773 It's not on the server yet. This experiment only had hitscan aimbot and wallhacks.

[@lukaasadorian5824]

what's most interesting about all of this is that it requires the "cheaters" to think way more than the average cheater actually would

[@imgladnotu9527]

probably because they were legitimate players artificially turned into cheaters..... you would have a entirely different story if you picked the usual hvher...

[@falco5148]

​@@imgladnotu9527I still think the whole experiment is ruined by having 99 people defend. I was expecting 1 hvher vs 24 legits. Not 99.

[@ohlookitisacat7404]

@@falco5148 if you do that, then you wouldn't have teamwork from cheater throw into the equation. Beside, what you mention can be seen during the hacker/botter timeline. It's not new or interesting anymore.

[@MsDestroyer900]

​@@falco5148nothing would've happened since the legits would have constant Uber advantage.

[@Leet-iz2fz]

⁠​⁠@@falco5148 how did you read the video title with "100" and think there would be 24 defense players

[@misteral9045]

The community has finally done it. Hackers have been absorbed into the same game, we can have... fun.

[@fishhhvh]

a truce has been signed with the cheaters to fight the bots

[@SpinosaurusStudios_]

@@fishhhvh Indeed. We wont let these bots ruin casual.

[@somethingalsonotimportant9095]

Enemy of my enemy situation

[@legojay14]

That gives me the thought that since with 100 players a hacker can't completely dominate a game. Theres potential in "special mercs" as a game mechanic in some 100 player lobbys. Essentially they have some cheat equivalent server options. Giving you that protagonist team in a tf2 animation feeling. Mainly to combat stacking combo strategies that im certain exist with that many

[@TJ-hg6op]

We should develop a cheat that only activates on bots

[@stevy2]

This happens organically sometimes. One team will successfully kick the bots while the other has a takeover. We all went engie as blu and slowly pushed our sentries up one at a tiime until we took the last point. It was glorious.

[@башарал]

Once on doublecross my entire team was against a team of all bots and we all went engineer and slowly trapped the bots in their spawn and once their pathfinding coud find no safe way out they all left.

[@tttttttttttttttp12]

It was just me and a heavy on pier, all others were omegatronics. I went vaccinator medic and pocketed the heavy. We dommed all the bots and got them to leave. Would've won but I got auto balanced and left

[@creativename773]

Casual MvM

[@Modeus.]

once had a match on 2Fort where Red team kept getting fooled by bot votekick requests until their team became all bots and the bots filtered the joining players out. We all went engie and started moving sentries in a specific way (sniper bots avoid sentries at all costs) until we locked them in spawn for a good 30m. Me and the lads still play together, good times.

[@starmaker75]

So fight fire with fire

[@Dribbleondo]

Imagine being the Administrator and seeing all this craziness go down...

[@AnUnfortunatePotato]

The administrator _lives_ for this crazy crap. Do you hear how excited she gets sometimes with her voicelines?

[@Rift_cz_sk]

Knowing the TF2 lore She would probably watch while eating popcorn

[@marisakirisame1st]

she would be the one to encourage this every now and then

[@RustysRevenge]

​@@AnUnfortunatePotatoshe literally nutts in some of her voice lines

[@VeryPeeved]

Who do you think hired Shounic to do all this shit?

[@Jornker]

I was one of the cheaters for most of this event, it was honestly quite fun with the inconsistent aimbot, and it at some points turned into a game of team coordination using the vc, in combo with the wallhacks, really interesting experience and would be interested in more maps with this

[@Aaa-vp6ug]

Wait, I was supposed to be using aimbot?

[@Sir_Cole]

But have you used cheats that have been provided to you so that you all have the same ones? Were they good? Some have written that with a proper crit bucket the cheaters would have destroyed everyone

[@norrecvizharan1177]

Shounic himself explicitly stated that he used server plugins to give everyone on one team specific cheats, so that question's already answered.@@Sir_Cole

[@germankerman984]

​@@Sir_Colewatch till the end, there he answers it. It was a serverside plugin.

[@slyseal2091]

​@@Sir_Cole the cheaters would also have destroyed everyone if you just gave them a button to ddos the server. Perhaps that's not the point though, you tell me.

[@_BDN]

4:18 THE FUCKING CIVILIAN ENGINEER ON TOP OF THE ROOF LMAOOO

[@davidviti7998]

Engineer gaming

[@why10db]

Uncle dane

[@alohaha-fv4di]

Upgrade your sentry to level 3 for maximum firepower

[@Fur-h4l]

He just didn’t care because of LITERAL WALL OF SENTRIES THAT OBLITERATE ANYTHING IN THEIR LINE OF SIGHT

[@thenameisuppercase]

Watching both sides form and execute strategies reminds me of the developer commentary where they mentioned the original idea was that both sides had a commander who would issue orders to their team. 100 players means that at least one team is an army, so it's cool to watch them organize themselves into battle formation when facing that many aimbots.

[@0akWoodLog]

if you were to have added simulated crit bucket the cheaters would have won ungodly easily as heavy and demo

[@thedarter]

Well... as Heavy, maybe. Definitely not demo.

[@VeryPeeved]

...aren't sentries immune to critical hits?

[@jackbob83]

I thought crit bucket was (mostly) patched so that it can only work on melee weapons

[@Logurte2510]

a singular battalion's backup soldier standing in the corner:

[@no.nomoreidontcare]

@@jackbob83 it still works on any weapon, you can still get way more primary/secondary crits (and when you need them too) than any normal player.

[@shanshansan]

The 34 RED cheaters being able to unite an effective strategy instead of only stacking snipers is scary, but honestly beautiful for me

[@Mai.Calico]

ain’t you a pqdo?

[@vivelespatat2670]

​@@Mai.Calicoback it up

[@dumbvillage9253]

How did i find some random plates of fate mod on a tf2 video

[@ocinprofession]

@@Mai.Calico what is a pqdo?

[@SlyceCaik]

​@@dumbvillage9253 same!

[@popcornchicken9762]

Upward could be really funny. Would love to see all the environmental kills around corners.

[@Margen67]

Chickens need HUGS

[@drakion8400]

1:20 that one scout stuck in the corner shouting help makes shot look like a renaissance painting

[@LozadaPR]

0:02 That’s me right there

[@TheGrammarNazi123]

Are you the one Scout on the left?

[@LozadaPR]

@@TheGrammarNazi123 the scout on the cart

[@incorporealnuance]

more maps with this test would be good- it might be possible to sus out what map elements impact cheaters more negatively than real ones, and add them to map designs

[@idiotsamich1737]

I don't think there would be any good means to implement that. cheaters have are fundamentally the same toolkit. All the cheaters get is "better" aim, wallhacks, and "luck" (crit bucket). Making a map that inhibits that woukd also likely hurt skilled players. It may even backfire as the skilled player can't effectively apply their knowledge about the game, evening the playing field against the cheater who never had any

[@Appletank8]

the big thing is just that shorter sightlines make it a lot harder for sniper bots to lock down large areas of the map. People can risk getting closer without needing ubers.

[@tadziu2400]

The more open map is, the easier It is for cheaters to win, no need to analyze this, because It is obvious. You don't want to design every map like dustbowl or any other choke map, because they are not fun, unless you like to spam 1 spot as soldier or demo

[@sufficient4834]

That just becomes an anti-sniper map

[@incorporealnuance]

@@sufficient4834 To be fair, I do not see this as a problem :)

[@the_noble_pumpkin_king]

I can only imagine the absolute suffering that was put on these poor aimbot snipers. 😢 So inhumane to force their participation in these sick experiments 😭 They deserve to be out in the wild, hunting in their natural habitat, Casual servers 😊

[@Markm8]

There invasive, they belong is csgo but due to de-sorceing They have moved to far north

[@mixelator9439]

@@Markm8) But where will they evacuate to if they get killed-off here for good?

[@grubbiercube5828]

runescape@@mixelator9439

[@Markm8]

@@mixelator9439 i heard overwatch 2 is a good habitat for them

[@1x1boop28]

They are an invasive species

[@bobbyferg9173]

You know, I always thought 100 player TF2 would always stay in the category of “kinda cool but ultimately unplayable nonsense” but the fact that people are organizing strategies and play the game in some form shows there is more to it

[@RedShocktrooperRST]

I think the big roadblock is the fact that the game would desperately need some sort of "Platoon" system where you'd automatically be grouped into a party while in server. Games that are harder core and follow Battlefield's mold have something like this. A Team Fortress 2+ or something that was (re-)built from the ground up to be a 100 player, 50 v 50 game (or even a 50 man 25 vs 25) could have this.

[@TheTdw2000]

most of the issue stems from the fact that tf2's maps were designed with 24 players in mind. if the maps were bigger you could make it work. i'd also like to see a conquest style gamemode like in battlefront where you have control points and a large battle of attrition with depleting reinforcements.

[@jvechobear1519]

This totally feels like something that needs expanded upon, just one map and gametype while fun is a very limited scope. I'd suggest starting with more asymmetrical maps/gamemode to start with like Dustbowl, Egypt, Upward, Goldrush, Thundermountain, maybe even Steel. Then some more symmetrical stuff to see how different that becomes like 2fort, Double Cross, and pretty much any control point map. Plus payload race.

[@sheevpalps66]

It was really fun to participate in this, especially on the cheater team since we were all in one Discord VC, which exploded when we won that defense.

[@QuintonMurdock]

This would make for a very interesting MVM evacuation game mode where one team fights to slow the unstoppable advance of robots. Have to hold off for as long as you possibly can. The only victory is surviving a little longer than last time.

[@youraveragerobloxkid]

zombie escape almost does that but not like that

[@michaeljo9384]

@@youraveragerobloxkid Zombie Escape is very different, zombies here are locked to non-projectile melee only as main weapon but instant infect against 200HP or lower except demoman for 100HP or lower after shield is gone, have about over 9000 HP MUTLIPLIED by opponent playercount but have weakness of slow, knockback and stun by weapon normally cannot do that like sniper rifle headshot or sticky traps. Also the human have infinitely regenating ammo which doesn't deplete unless holding airblast, huo-long heater minigun or other miniguns for a couple of minute and basically haste powerup on almost every weapon except several unlocks which have reworked stat like FaN and winger to have bigger clips but slower reload and no jump height boost, stun on big damage for sniper rifles/ambasador headshot, sticky traps and big number damage like Kritzkrierg's ubercharge to your teammate.

[@youraveragerobloxkid]

@@michaeljo9384 still same concept

[@drfidelis558]

Literally just Halo: Reach’s final mission, Objective: Survive and there’s no way to actually complete that objective

[@michaeljo9384]

@@youraveragerobloxkid Nope, you can win in ZE as human by reaching certain area like inside an escape helicopter which is different than playing as defense with infinite time (or until server crash due to memory leak). Also ZE have teleports for all teams in 1 spot if you don't do what custom text in your HUD say (glorified simon say disguised as Attack / Defence), surf maps (surf or teleported to the zombies), boss maps (You fight a billion HP boss from another game with TF2 weapon buffed partially by haste or reworks), VIP NPC maps (Protect a NPC like f- -king spongebob from getting touched by zombies or you lose) and parkour maps (parkour or get teleported to the zombies) which can have different objectives in the brackets next to them.

[@Wolf-oc6tx]

One fun idea could be to try this on 2fort since the map is more evenly set so to speak.

[@concerningindividual629]

Engie tower defense

[@Wolf-oc6tx]

@@concerningindividual629 That could get silly and badass very fast.

[@ADonutMan]

​@@concerningindividual629BTD 6 Briefcase Tower Defense 6 (hours in a row)

[@TheShinyFeraligatr]

How many hackers does it take to stop 100 Sentries in the basement?

[@concerningindividual629]

@@TheShinyFeraligatr 2 kritz medics, 4 stock medics, and 2 demomen to charge

[@greasehardbody4018]

I'd like to see this again, but with more features added to the "cheats"-things like backtrack, fakelag, and crit hacks. Crit hacks in particular, I think, would massively affect the results of the experiment when combined with the aimbot. Oh, and please add killsay for the ever-important demoralization of the legit team.

[@NikolasoGames]

Imagine if the demomen had crits and a working aimbot. Now, that's what the backline would least expect, at some parts. And to include; auto-detonation, auto-airblast, etc... and ESPECIALLY double tap. I mean man, if heavy had that... Also, what's killsay? Edit: Nvm, got that.

[@Skillnoob_]

Yea, I'd like to see what happens if you put actual cheaters which hvh on the regular and give them freedom in what cheats they want to use

[@hughjanes4883]

My glasses are working overtime trying to find where my player is in the vid

[@createrz8433]

Did you find it

[@UH-60_Blackhawk]

found it yet?

[@hughjanes4883]

Sadly no, i dont think any of the rounds i played were featured here

[@goldengolem4670]

This was really fun to watch, the almost time i found myself routing for a cheater.

[@willowdrakon]

Finding this many game testers and then paying all of them wouldn't be an easy task, and yet here shounic is doing all this

[@argentcosmonautmobile5672]

My god, the collective engineer spam is the best bit of storytelling I've seen in ages. Like, the cheater lobby vs overwhelming numbers is already a really cool sounding fight, like the climax of a show. But 'The Alamo' is so sarcastic and spiteful, not to mention the Texan attitude of engineer, that it's just awe inspiring.

[@maxtube1952]

This experiment teaches us one of these things, probably: A: Sniper is Broken. B: EngieStacking is Broken. C: The map/s used in this experiment are weirdly imbalanced(At least in terms of unbalanced teams, I guess?) D: All of the above.

[@peterni2234]

I'm not sure where you came to conclusion 'c' seeing as for the outcome of this experiment, the perfect ratio for both defense & offence is ~30 cheaters to 70 normal players. As for maps, it was all done on Badwater (pl_badwater).

[@khezoboi]

This was very interesting to watch, The server custom made aimbot seems like a good option for these experiments, if I was to suggest any maps for future experiments. then there is a few I would like to see how the experiment goes on. The maps are: Mercenary park Barnblitz and Snowycoast Mostly due to some of the more harder choke point areas to push through, and to see how many hackers are properly required to push through it. either through their teamwork or just by going sniper

[@Dromaeosaurs]

2:37 That crit stickybomb in the bottom left is a video shot taken before disaster

[@ipv6tf2]

the stream was enjoyable to watch.. i wish i was able to join the experiment itself!

[@yasminaunicorn3735]

if you had the time to watch the stream, why didnt you also have the time to join the experiment?

[@ipv6tf2]

​@@yasminaunicorn3735 you can watch a youtube stream on a device that you can't play tf2 on, at a location you can't play tf2 at

[@Sethilliano]

​@@yasminaunicorn3735the server might have been full

[@TheFoolishSamurai]

Moral of the story: Man, is Badwater horribly outdated

[@guzzlord2.0]

3:03 By brain went numb when I saw Soldier put out a sniper rifle

[@AbsoluteRatBastard]

My brain’s already numb so I didnt even noticr

[@KVVUZRSCHK]

Goddamn that was fascinating to watch! This game has so many mechanics, and coordination can look really beautiful. I also really like the "some cheaters vs a lot of enemies" dynamic. Great video! One of the most captivating pieces of TF2 content

[@Kadeo64]

>see post uber fight >look inside >four more ubers

[@Touhou2006]

hi

[@taulitaulington197]

This is AWESOME! Such a fun idea! And really wholesome at the end, when you reveal that you don't even use cheat software, just server settings. ♥

[@Pokets]

you should definitely do more with different gamemodes

[@JMPDev]

Great video. I feel the context of what ‘cheats’ you added should have been at the beginning of the video.

[@goji3908]

This seems like actual useful information to be used in the future

[@xElysian.]

7:28 i don't know why but overtime is the thing that make me really like tf2. The chaos of blue pushing last second is so fun to watch there effort, and the moment where you can feel your goal is infront about to happend in a couple second make me always want to put more effort on reaching my goal, and when you manage to pull it off the feeling is amazing

[@purplehaze2358]

The fact that 100 players counters cheaters this hard almost makes me want 100 players to be implemented into valve-backed servers by default. Emphasis on "almost".

[@nerdnerdnerd]

this is a dangerous option that sounds like fun

[@floorpizza8074]

Unfortunately, the simulated cheat used in this experiment isn't nearly as robust/powerful as the real ones. While the video shows a fun experiment, IMO it doesn't represent what would really happen if real cheats were used.

[@onemorescout]

Then 20 bots could just join after a match and run infinite votekicks on normal to avoid being kicked themselves. One of the currently hosted bots does this already to avoid instant kicks.

[@BickyNuckley]

@@floorpizza8074 It represents the most basic cheats and its as good as it gets compared to having every person inject.

[@Brown95P]

So basically fight fire with fire, countering aimbots with aimbots of your own. Having used engi's sentry to deny aimbots myself, I'm not surprised the Alamo worked as well as it did.

[@gratenbrecher609]

7:42 like 5 people exploding into ammo packs at once is crazy

[@spartanwar1185]

Dude this sounds like the introduction to that one Unreal Tournament 1999 mod that added classes similar to TF2 "Individual combat had become obsolete in favor of team play" This isn't TEAM fortress 2 anymore This is STRATEGIC fortress 2 (or alternatively strategy fortress 2)

[@starmaker75]

So the solution of dealing with bots and cheaters that wouldn't go away, we get at least 24 more player on the not bot/cheater side to spam them out. Got it

[@fishhhvh]

the solution to beating the cheaters is the players downloading cheats too and then it becomes a scuffed version of HvH

[@Cromenium]

4:05 42 the awnser to all questions

[@noodledoodle9408]

I like how the rockets just change artstyle, with a noticeable delay between spawning and moving.

[@BlueShellshock]

Yeap, if the cheaters are all just mindless Sniper bots, players actually develop a counter through Vaccs medics. But if the cheaters are coordinating, it's a whole different ball game.

[@lipschitzlyapunov]

This shows that short circuit, wrangler, and sniper all need their long overdue nerfs

[@stevefan8283]

Why don't you make the cheating team using the MvM robot reskin of the class model, and replace their voiceline with MvM as well? I remember there is a plugin for that in alliedmodders. That would be super fun to watch.

[@frenchzebra71]

I love this, that is probably the most interesting "nerdy" tf2 video i have ever watched!!

[@artificialgravitas8954]

More maps with this would be fascinating!

[@ForeverFree2Play]

Please do another test please! This was super interesting and I'd love to see some potential restrictions and handicaps to really test players and cheaters. I know it sounds like cancer, but I wanted to know what would happen if vacinator and medic was limited/banned outright. Maybe have 1-2 medics for every ten players like a real casual match would get more decisive results.

[@LightsJusticeZ]

This was really fun to watch. Was hoping to see what would happen if the cheaters all went Huntsman lol.

[@Aaa-vp6ug]

Or Machina, it’s cracked in 100 player

[@krunken_isok]

silent aim huntsmen snipers would practically turn the opposing team into non existant

[@papucovers]

4:18 A-pose engineer on the roof for the entrance of the sniping place

[@grogcito]

Being in the cheater team is the must fun ever, it's kinda like playing vsh but instead of 1 boss it's a lot of cheaters lol. I haven't played much as the "legit" players but it was also fun to spawncamp and beat them (though I didn't play when the cheaters were dominating, maybe that's too annoying idk). Please repeat the experiment, I need more ethical cheating in my life

[@MACKYBOY-41]

I really like seeing how roles of each class play out no matter what kinda video it is. It's just fun. Like strategising to "slowly teleport in medics" (multiple) and having this many demos stationed here and this many engies here...

[@real_critical]

blu kick your bots

[@JonesCrimson]

The most important part is getting 100 players to actually play the game in good faith without messing around.

[@isaacargesmith8217]

I feel badwater is one of the maps that actually has ways of playing around aimbotters due to how its laid out in the latter half so I do wonder how say a more symetrical map might work like a viaduct or 5cp map. Feels more fair to get an actual number given the even playing field.

[@bruschetta7711]

Having 100 players tend to make any place a choke point, that is what making the difference, not the map Alltho on dustbowl you would probably need more cheaters lol

[@GewelReal]

I want to see Upward now with its many flank router

[@boodle399]

How about turbine :V

[@-RandomStranger-]

​@@boodle399 sniper.

[@AlliroG98]

I'm not sure which is funnier: The fact that Shounic is actually organizing these wacky experiements and setting them up, or the fact that he finds so many actual players to participate in them

[@truestbluu]

i'd love to see valve bots vs aimbots

[@svnomore]

1 is enough

[@FED0RA]

​@@svnomore*1 valve bot is enough

[@B.L.U.S]

banning them also works lel

[@truestbluu]

also if you guys didn't understand what i meant, i meant the bots that valve added to the game so that you could play offline, not whatever you guys thought i meant.

[@B.L.U.S]

@@truestbluu those are trash But I would love to see an valve bot made by the best AI devs on Valve made specifically to be as freaking good as possible

[@flamethegame1]

One experiment I'd like to see with 100 players is what if Ubers weren't allowed at all, including vacc, kritz and quick fix The medics would still be able to heal of course, but just not Uber I feel it would provide some interesting results, seeing as the current 100 player meta is pretty Uber centric Though the problem I'm already seeing is that the defending team would just be able to stack engineer and the attacking team wouldn't be able to do anything

[@1351-u9h]

the most interesting tf2 content in years

[@TheMegaOnyx]

It could be a game mode called "HAAAAAX!" Where everyone get hax, but different classes get different hax... Like only aimbot if fully charged when sniper Faster spam but slow reload when using demo Faster uber charge but less usages when medic For example... Everything can be tweaked...

[@demoman5864]

2:54 just like badwater in casual

[@anyarr]

This was a really interesting experiment! Although, it's strange to describe the actual cheats at the end of the video, as I was wondering what the cheats were during the rest of the entire video (since the players didn't visually appear to be aimbotting and some cheats, like backstab immunity, clearly weren't used). Otherwise, interesting dissection of a battle between players and lite cheaters.

[@vanillabarrel7886]

Never had i ever rooted for hackers so much.

[@Randomise0]

It looks like blu didn't use any quickfixes. The real number is probably much lower. Blu's biggest problem wasn't damage saturation, it was knockbacks. "The alamo" could be beat with a few groups of four, consisting of [pyro]+[uber med]+[qf med]+[uber med].

[@zfilms4858]

the thing is according to my math, that means we sould expect a simuar 3:7 ratio in casual to have the same effect. Where the cheating team would need 7 players to overcome 17 players. But in reality, even 1 cheater in casual can wipe out an entire team of 12. Still, i want to see this experiment continued. here's some more ideas: 1. Find away to get projectile aimbot to work server side. 2. All popular maps. like 2fort, dustbowl, viaduct, upward (especially THAT sentry spot), and even halo ween maps 3. have solar light face 99 players as saxton hale and how many "Cheaters" on red would be required to kill "solarhale"? 4. 32 and 24 player server ideas for badwater. does my theory of 7 cheaters work in these low numbers? 5. a variation of this could how many power abusing admins are needed to do the same here? (check out Muselk's old video for what i mean: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2KTnKBurp1-hrMsi=_f4Hd6TExxict8oJ )

[@charliesutro2398]

I would love a server where RED and BLU are given randomized stat modifiers (speed, damage, jump height, any and everything) and the player count of both teams is adjusted automatically until a lengthy stalemate occurs. After the team sizes stabilize, the gameplay loop transitions to both teams coordinating to use their relative strengths to win.

[@justinbuddy56]

I’d be interested to see what an ubered escape plan soldier could do at “the Alamo”. If he can get the taunt out, how much damage could he do?

[@Benno950]

Not much, knockback from both the sentry and the players would interrupt the taunt

[@uncleweirdbeard86]

Fr I would love to see this as a game mode across a lot of different games. The cheaters being so out gunned actually forced them to play as if on equal terms. Using strategy and planning rather than mindlessly going through the motions and letting their hacks do the work

[@NerfPlayeR135]

The message I'm getting from this is that you need at least 2 teammates cooperating with each other to take down a single cheater. (Note: This may not be 100% accurate; I have a degree in English, not math)

[@idiotsamich1737]

More likely less. In this experiment they were real players given serverside cheats. You wouldn't see the coordination and effective application of the wallhacks like you did here. If they played like actual cheaters (aka like an idiot) they'd likely need more cheaters than normal players, as two decent coordinated players are worth like 5

[@Pandaptable]

@@idiotsamich1737 tbh saying cheaters play like idiots isn't a valid observation

[@infernox1099]

The concept of "Hackers vs Normal" is such a great concept, the fact that this worked as well as it did is amazing.

[@cadenr7165]

Amazing that even in a match specifically about hackers, stock uber is still the most important thing

[@tudedude5793]

Stock Uber for the cheaters. Vacc for the horde

[@boinqity4621]

a symmetrical gamemode could be interesting. no idea what maps would be best but 5cp would probably just end up playing like attack defend with whoever wins mid effectively becoming the attackers and whoever loses the defenders. although thats more of an issue with 5cp on 100 player servers in general than specifically with this

[@chakra6666]

It would have been great to put the hacks they had at the start, but otherwise a very interesting video. I am very interested in what would happen on a KotH map

[@DylanLove-wf3eg]

this would be a funni gamemode 30 cheaters vs 70 real players

[@flavour842]

I wonder if it would be possible to program a 'B-spec' or 'RTS' plugin, where instead of playing the game, one team instead can give a bot an instruction or strategy, and a location. I dont even know if it would have a meaningful effect on gameplay but it's an interesting question.

[@TheTdw2000]

Slowly but surely TF2 will return to its initial premise of a combined RTS-FPS game.

[@increbidel4685]

Tf2 Pikmin real

[@edward9487]

I'd totally come to participate in the other gamemodes, though unfortunately my TF2 knowledge has been dampened by time. So I'll support from here where I can.

[@Hexfighter000]

For the Alamo, would the dragon fury have been a good choice to break through as it pierces and does a lot to buildings. Just have an Uber and quickfix on the pyro to move forward

[@MINICUBANT]

It's a projectile , it get destroyed by short circuit.

[@Appletank8]

Maybe Machina for "ranged hitscan splash" ?

[@ashleysony7943]

​@@MINICUBANTisn't coded as one

[@HinanawiTenko]

It is interesting how the strats change in different areas of the map so expanding this to other maps would not only be interesting...but show possible issues with flow, much how the death heat map opened up when sniper was turned off.

[@LawreAnimations]

Engineer gaming is now canon.

[@NoBody-hl1rs]

I love this so much, this is so cool! It looks like an actual battle with this much going on Graymann: God I really gotta stop these nutcases my brothers are tearing this country apart! God they've cloned these horrible mercenaries and are manning massively armed armies into heated battles, this can't go on like this! Now the comic lore actually makes alot more sense now. Also incase you were wondering cloning IS cannon because its referenced multiple times in the comics, and in meet the Medic? Blu reveals this strong arm of technology for the first time showing off a massive pile of these Players. Cloned from off of the genecode of the Blu Soldier, whose real origins or why he also looks just like the Red's Jane Doe? Is a mystery. But this is what the real-life lore accurate fighting in the Gravel War looks like, no wonder the people of Teufort Arizona were so PISSED OFF LIKE IMAGINE IF YOUR KID GOT BLOWN UP AT HIS BUSSTOP BECAUSE SOME CLONES OF PSYCHOTIC MADMEN ACCIDENTALLY BLEW A ROCKET THROUGH A FENCED OFF ZONE AND FLEW INTO THEM. IMAGINE IF YOUR GRANDMA GOT ATE BY SOME MANIAC WHO ALSO STOLE HER TOM JONES MEMOROBILIA BECAUSE HE IS CURSED TO SOMEONE ELSE'S BRAIN AND BODY BUT HE IS HIM HE'S ME IT'S ME

[@0lmectf2]

If the cheating side were using actual paid cheats it would most likely take around 10 cheaters

[@myon-]

cry

[@richwhiteman3238]

@@myon-mge? I cheat but I’d own you legit

[@peterni2234]

A 10v90??? They'd still be stuck in spawn! XD

[@0lmectf2]

@@peterni2234 Paid cheats have a functioning crit hack, double tap, high quality projectile aimbot and is around 5x more stable than the cheats used in this video.

[@aviataxi5725]

​@@peterni223420vs100 will be possible, full dt + vaccinator + crit hack

[@jackfire3439]

man i am so mad i missed this i love this idea a lot and would love to see how it went in real time

[@spa7]

I swear to god i aint see no spy in this vid lmao

[@mso1ps4]

Aimbot works on invisible spies

[@oldpernilong0]

Weird, autobackstabber is kinda of a strong cheat of kunaispies tbh. Specially when it enables the "frontstab" I guess they completely forgot. What is a good sign because that means any of the cheaters were actual cheaters.

[@StupendousIdiot]

​@@oldpernilong0at the end of the video shounic said that the cheats were server sided and it only had hitscan aimbot and wallhacks.

[@oldpernilong0]

@@StupendousIdiot cool I missed that for some reason lmao

[@ChronoSquare]

oh, hey! 1:11 I think that's my cow mangler charge shot! 4:24 awesome! That's my killstreaker in my Hitmans's Heatmaker on the left! hahaha. Shame I missed out on the next day red cheaters time. It was quite a fun experiment. I regret not trying out Heavy auto aim more.

[@neondead2.0.15]

This why this game is masterpiece, you still can win vs cheater or bot.

[@theworkshopwhisperer.5902]

I really want to see more of this. There is an obscure subset of TF2 players which is hackers against hackers. "When everyone is super no one will be." They play on private servers where all of both sides have a variety of game manipulations installed. They only ever play against each other never affecting the main community. It's really interesting the coding side of it. How do you make one aim bot better than another. What method do you use to manipulate the game? I don't really know much about it as I have only heard rumours but I really hope this is as real as it sounds.

[@NtQueryInformationProcess]

hacker vs hacker is a real thing but it's probably much more active in Counter-Strike. the aimbots are pretty much equal, but there are exploits that let you desync your player model with the actual hitboxes (this is commonly called "spinbot" by players, which is a bit misleading) and cheats that are meant to be used against other cheaters try to counter it and find the real hitboxes. there's more into it such as abusing lag compensation in multiple ways, but those are the most important parts, hope you found that interesting

[@imgladnotu9527]

​​​@@NtQueryInformationProcesstf2 hvh is pretty different compared to csgo/cs2 as cs has patched fake angles whilst tf2 does not, 2ndly fake angles is far more powerful than desync as you are only limited to around 30 degrees of seperation from your real and fake, modern tf2 hvh isnt JUST sniper v sniper anymore, now we have scout, heavy and demo/soldier solos or heavy + medic duos, and then eventually a full 6 man team consisting of the aformentioned classes. engineer, and spy dont really have places in hvh as they are usually just meme classes, whilst pyro is a occasional situational counter to some compositions/playstyles. -source am current day hvher, fyi: we dont care about legits. (most of us anyways, the closets do and we hate them) ps: shounic sucks ps: ps: if youre going to join one of the 2 hvh servers, please just spectate.

[@NtQueryInformationProcess]

@@imgladnotu9527 yeah, fake angles are what I had in mind when I mentioned model/hitbox desyncing, other than that I pretty much know close to nothing about tf2 other than the fact it runs on the source engine lol so I might have missed some tf2 specific exploits and stuff

[@cock9149]

@@imgladnotu9527 Is tickbase manipulation used in TF2, or is the advantage provided by it lower?

[@larrypan2290]

I don't understand why you need to conduct this experiment when you can just join a pub

[@virtuedreamer6623]

This is actually fascinating. As technology develops, so does the technology required to work against it. The possibilities truly are endless in the many digital worlds we have created. I also found the CS:GO aimhacks that were completely separate robots sitting on the mouse to be spectacularly curious.

[@LucarioredLR]

So a cheater is worth two players, basically

[@isenokami7810]

For some reason, this gave me a completely unrelated idea. Sort of a normal TF2 game with zombie rules: only one attacker vs everyone else on the server, but every kill they manage to get swaps over to their side. A massive player imbalance that flips the longer you can keep at it.

[@LoLoLoLoLo855]

Watching people try to cap in this is painful, like Sisyphus trying to push his boulder.

[@angelitza3426]

4:17 the t-posing engi on the roof lmao

[@Gman3346]

This video was super interesting to watch, please do more gamemode/map experiments with cheaters vs legit players. One of my fav vids from you so far