Signals | How I Communicate on Every Drive

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#driving #tesla #education

[@petercasey6938]

Hi Ashley, as a dedicated pedestrian & lifelong non-driver I do find your videos enormously helpful in understanding the rationale behind a lot of motoring decision making & practices. The recent debate you’ve started over the question of when to signal or not has had me puzzled on occasion & your logic is as usual impeccable however as you’ve previously pointed out nobody can be perfectly at the top of their game at all times & it is preferable to maintain ‘good habits’ rather than abandon them as it is still entirely possible that even the most observant motorist may miss seeing a pedestrian or vehicle obscured by trees/bushes, street furniture etc or other distractions & there are plenty of examples of drivers that are excessively over confident of their own skills.

[@anon1903kg]

This is how I feel about it too. I agree with Ashley that there are times when not signalling is a good way to communicate with other road users (along with road "posture") and that signals shouldn't be instead of observations but it is always best to still signal correctly as we all miss something once in a while.

[@kenbrown2808]

for that matter, there are also drivers who are overconfident of the other person's skills.

[@radishpea6615]

@@anon1903kg How does not indicating give good communication to other road users?

[@anon1903kg]

@@radishpea6615 It's specific situations, like waiting for them to go first, sometimes a signal can cause other drivers to wait for you.

[@radishpea6615]

@@anon1903kg How is that a bad way to communicate, the other drivers knows what you want to do? So they wait for you, what is the problem?

[@Smartsparky]

My slogan for an indicator has always been, ITS NOT FOR YOU,ITS FOR EVERYONE ELSE. Cars can’t talk, we communicate with signals. Great video as always.

[@TheBarefootedHuman]

My driving instructor always made sure to tell me that signalling isn't always necessary, but said ALWAYS do it on the driving test, even if there's no need. So I did, but when I'm driving now I don't always signal. It makes me think, and pay more attention. He taught me the way you're teaching now. He was a great instructor, great guy.

[@youknow6968]

If they're not necessary, then why did he ask you to do it on the driving test? Because they are necessary, because it's hard to judge when to do or not to do. It adds to the confusion because when it comes to individual judgment, there are too many variables. If he asked, and they all do, to pay attention to signals during a test, then signaling is very much necessary.

[@TheBarefootedHuman]

@@youknow6968 Well, for example, even on a left only turn where turning right is just not possible, he said even there I should indicate on the test just to not give the examiner any excuse to fail me. But when I took PassPlus with him afterwards we got more into advanced driving techniques and he told me by law he has to teach certain things in certain ways, and told me some things he'd never teach a learner as he said he could have his ADI licence taken off him if he didn't teach to the book. He's an ex-persuit driver so knows his stuff.

[@paul756uk2]

Completely agree but you'll get flack from the die hard automatons on here.

[@boblawrence5011]

Therefore should we assume that other drivers are of a standard of driving to ‘get’ what we mean by just our speed, position etc? I’m not so sure. What’s the problem with signalling? Totally agree with ‘youknow’.

[@chinapig71]

@@boblawrence5011 If done correctly then other drivers will always get the signal / intent because you will be doing the appropriate thing for the situation. That's te whole point. In advanced driving we are taught and expected to be able to read alot more into situations than in the DSA test. Dsa tests are rather negative, you are expected to adhere to pre established rules without reading into the situation and you will be penalised and in some instances even fail a test for using advanced techniques. That is not because they are wrong or invalid techniques, it is because they are beyond the scope of a learner undertaking basic instruction. In essence, it is to prevent pupils trying to run before they can walk. Youknow, unfortunately, doesn't know. Don't listen to him. Listen to the guy who does this for a living and is publishing the video.

[@Hobnobrob10]

Your examples for not signalling in this video were much clearer but just to clear up some of your assumptions about people who were speaking against not signalling: For me, it's got nothing to do with my instructor from over a decade ago and nothing to do with MSM. I don't signal incorrectly or where it can cause confusion about side roads etc. I don't join queues I use both lanes. I don't use signals to replace observations. I don't use signals so I can put in less mental work. I adjust my speed to conditions. I don't signal for every turn of the wheel or bend of the road. All I am saying is that it is safer to indicate than to choose not to - not incorrectly or in situations they can cause confusion. After driving in a city almost every day for over a decade, I don't trust the majority to correctly assess when it is safe to not put a signal on and I wouldn't urge them to try. Love the videos I just disagree on this one

[@jimmyccam]

... and you will keep on saying that you disagree until the cows come home. Hopefully the cows will appreciate your flexible approach. Drive on, but carefully.

[@kenbrown2808]

it's a question of mind sets. Ashley, you have the mindset that once a "routine driver" signals, they stop observing. However, it is just as likely that a "routine driver" will decide a signal isn't necessary, and stop observing. the takeaway needs to be that every signal you give another driver is an accurate and appropriate signal. because after all, how many crashes have been caused because everybody signaled correctly? I do always signal entering my driveway. partly because it is a physical reflex. I've tried to copy bad signalers, at times I've been utterly irritated at people doing "maneuver, signal, mirror" maneuvers and I find myself incapable of purposely signaling badly. on the other side of the coin, I live on a 55 MPH highway, with limited visibility, and so nearly every time I approach my driveway, the final decision whether to stop or sweep into the driveway is made in moments. because I can't see whether there will be someone to benefit from my signal until I am at the point where I decide to maneuver or wait. and if someone comes upon me from either direction, and I decide to wait, they will be able to see immediately, what my next maneuver will be. and yes, if you are following a lane, it means there isn't a need to signal. but that doesn't reduce the importance of communicating properly and clearly, even if you don't think anyone around you needs to know. so yes, I am still in the "if you use your indicator correctly, with nobody around to see it, it isn't unsafe" camp.

[@kiradotee]

A half an hour lesson from Ashley!!!!! On signals. 😂 Is this his longest video on KZbin? Who of you guys has been pissing Ashley off. 😂😂

[@Alan_Clark]

Some of his videos are well over an hour long.

[@rufusgreenleaf2466]

More of a half an hour vent because of the controversial backlash his other video got. I think Ash expected it to be just another teaching video but a lot of people took it personally.

[@Plimp92601]

Hi Ash, I must admit I struggle with this one. My thinking was always, have your signal on automatically, like when turning left at an island when there's "no one there". Reason is, someone might appear who you couldn't previously see, and then they already have the benefit of your signal. However, I've previously struggled with other things you've said too. Like not flashing to let people out. Use body language. After giving that a go, it's transformed my driving in that respect. When I used to flash I'd say 60% of people knew I was letting them out. Now with body language it's 95%. Right. Out for a drive to try this signalling approach out. Knowing you Ash, it'll click and I won't go back. Thanks as always.

[@beninman2087]

I've been trying this for about 6 months or so now, after watching an older Ashley video. I have to say it has drastically altered how I drive. At first it was really tough, a mix of breaking the autopilot of hitting the indicator when turning the wheel, but also the sheer amount of extra cognitive load. I had not realised just how little I was looking around me. I was noticing what I thought might be issues, but I wasn't looking into their impact on how it effected me until it did. I wasn't reading other road users body language and intentions, just their speed and distance. So at first I was indicating a lot because I was having to re-learn my observations and it was tough. But over time I started to see these little nuances in behaviours of those around me and learning what they meant. I was starting to drive pro-actively rather than reactively to keep the traffic flowing safely. I got a few things wrong and misread a lot of things, I still do, but much rarer than before. So 6 months on and I have noticed a few things. My stress levels have come right down! I am observing far more, seeing the behaviours of pedestrians, observing further around corners, through bushes, reflections in windows etc that I never would have seen or read properly before. Because I am observing more I have more time to consider what might happen, what choices I have and simply choosing to avoid situations that before hand I would have been stuck reacting to. I am still learning. There are times when I revert to the old ways, when I'm tired or when there is too much going on to keep track of all the moving parts. But even then I am able to learn from it. I can look reflectively on what I did and how I can improve on it, rather than blaming the whole driving world for my own inadequacies. I am actually enjoying driving far more than I ever have before. All because some youtube dude asked "who does that signal benefit?". So thanks Ash, this is great content, it is making a difference to loads of us.

[@ashley_neal]

Wow! Not joking but this brought a tear to my eye. This is exactly the transition that I am after. Amazing 🥇

[@ibs5080]

I think you've just made Ashley's year!

[@highdownmartin]

Spot on mate, I enjoy driving because I enjoy making a good smooth job of it, making good progress by gathering as much information as possible and positioning my car or bike in the best place so I don’t snooker myself. And acceleration and braking are as unnoticeable as possible. And as for the being tired bit, much more applicable on the motorcycle, I make a conscious decision to pop it into top gear, drop in behind a slower moving vehicle, assume a following position a little further back and give my head a break. I’m done with overtaking for a bit so I metaphorically fold my arms and chill out. It’s not hard to spot drivers flashing their brake lights for miles, inches from someone’sbumper, on a road that they clearly aren’t going to be able to overtake on, where they could drop back and recharge rather than become so stressed they will make an awful mistake. Safe driving mate.

[@kenbrown2808]

if you were in the habit of indicating when you turn the wheel, then you were in the group that always signaled late.

[@ibs5080]

@@kenbrown2808 Btw Ken re a reply you made to me regarding winter driving and your visit to Portland OR. Hope all went will with the hospital visit there and I wish you / your family well. No need to eleborate any further regarding that hospital visit as I respect it's a private matter but just wanted to wish you well.

[@craigtw1984]

Another great video Ashley! Passed my test this morning with 2 minors! Thanks for sharing, your videos have been a huge help 😀

[@ashley_neal]

Congratulations! Keep safe!!

[@WolfmanWoody]

Congratulations. And never stop learning! Realise any mistakes and try not to make them again.

[@craigtw1984]

@ashley_neal thanks Ashley 👍🏽

[@craigtw1984]

@@WolfmanWoody thank you 👍🏽

[@PedroConejo1939]

Well done.

[@bobbyg309]

I love how Ashley will insist he doesn't mind the feedback and comments he is getting despite obviously fuming about it and cranking out video after video insisting HE is the professional, how many more videos on signals are we going to get 🤣he appreciates people who disagrees with him btw 😜

[@ashley_neal]

It prompts discussion and thought.👍

[@bobbyg309]

@@ashley_neal When you start referring to yourself in 3rd person and insisting that you're the professional, is that in the name of discussion? 😅

[@ashley_neal]

Take what you wish to take from any of my uploads👍

[@Pattoe]

The people who disagreed with Ashley before this rant video will still disagree with him after this rant video. I think Ashley is correct but being told the same thing over and over again can seem patronising and it's frustrating.

[@johnmckay1423]

I'm in Ashley's camp, partly because of the way I was taught and reinforced by years of cycling in a city. On a bike you can almost always indicate your intention by road position and speed - and having both hands available to steer and brake is often more useful. Another reason people might choose to always signal: in the VW I drive the lane assist steers you back if you try to cross lane lines without signalling. The Tesla can do the same but I turn it off.

[@crex8751]

On one of my driving lessons,. I was turning right at a junction and noticed there was no one around, I turned to my instructor and asked if I should indicate, he replied, 'will anyone benefit from it?'. This has stuck with me since then.

[@oceanrailsky]

​@@ronrolfsen3977 I don't think the stop sign scenario is relevant here. The only reason we put the stop signs here in the UK, is because a particular junction has some poor visibility and therefore the highway engineers do not believe you can make a safe judgement without seeing the full picture. The message from that instructor and Ashley is right. It bogs down to 'your indicator is meaningless if you don't do your observations properly'. My indicator knob is not a get out of jail card. It shouldn't be used to force your behaviour on others. Its purpose is to help others make the right decision while sharing the road with you, and if there isn't anyone around you (and you'll only know that with the right level of observation) it becomes meaningless.

[@Ep1cure]

I think the mindset and concepts are the most important thing. You don't have to do it perfectly. You might signal when you really didn't need to. But all we do when driving, or just about anything else should be based on what you can (or cannot) observe. We don't shout 'coming through!' in the middle of a field with no one there. But we might if entering a door to a room beyond a closed door with painters and decorators, even if we're not sure whether they are there at that moment. If you're really in any doubt, do signal for anyone who might be invisible behind some corner. But don't forget the key is to observe.

[@chaosmagican]

Driving is a bit like chess sometimes. I look at what is around me and calculate some moves in advance. I often think about others and how to help them out. By momentarily speeding up or slowing down to make a gap for them to come out or merge, things like that. But I feel like this thinking for others is rare these days.

[@pageant1fd]

I was critical of your first vlog on the need to signal. And unsubscribed as a result. However, 99% of your uploads I feel I’ve been informed beneficially. Perhaps driving examiners feedback on over use of signals to instructors would be an advantage. Meanwhile I’m continuing my 53 years of driving with “signal when manoeuvring “. Plus, disagreeing doesn’t equate to disliking Ash, you are a great guy who is helping the public. Cheers 🥃 for 2023

[@martinkool6435]

I used to be a driving instructor and always used 'Mirror (consider a) Signal, Manoever' the pupil invariably took a while to understand this, but I think it helped them to look at the situation and see if a signal would help both motorists and other road users. Great instructional video Ashley, thanks for being willing to spend the time and effort to produce these videos.

[@scrivsid]

This lesson is essentially about the driver creating an external viewpoint narrative which unfolds constantly as the journey progresses. Like 'common sense', it's not innate and has to be learned... Ashley's outro about starting local, noticing one's own behaviour, and changing it to suit the moment is a great first step. Carrying that out on a general every-trip (near or far) basis takes time, requires concentration, and needs constant practise because no situation is ever the same as any another. And I confess I sometimes fail - e.g. when I'm tired, or I'm being harassed by a lorry tailgating me, etc.. It's good to have the Instructor's Rant as a reminder though (note to self - try harder to stay alert 100% of the time!) and I'm bookmarking this video to play again occasionally.

[@PhillipParr]

I stick by the rule of indicate unless ambiguous, which in reality means I indicate as you did in this video. And I absolutely look at those flashing lights as a pedestrian to see whether I can cross a road that a car's already travelling along; I've definitely got very wet in the rain unnecessarily before when lots of oncoming cars suddenly disappear around a corner where a signal could've let me know that I could've gone! Edit: And on awareness, 100% agree. I've been in an accident where I just began to pass someone as they started indicating to come into my lane, but there was no time between their indicating and the manoeuvre so they hit me. I can only assume they didn't even bother checking their mirror, they just treated the indicator like a warning to others!

[@jaywright9924]

What you're saying at around 23:00 about signalling for the turn resonates with me. my street is off one of the main roads into my town. Immediately after my street is another street that leads into a housing estate. I typically park my car across the road so have to cross the main road and the number of cars that drive up the bank with a signal on as if they're going to come down my street rather than the next one is so high that I'm always genuinely surprised when someone actually does want my street

[@OutlawJackC]

30:57 Ash's instant change of tone when he's thinking "Holy sh!t, don't want this to be a 5 hour video" 😂

[@grahamlong6870]

i went on a police better driving course in Hampshire over forty years ago, and the chief instructor (a really good instructor by the way) then said that signalling is an automatic action caused purely by habit, and not using your brain to evaluate each situation. His scenario was turning on an empty road at 2 am. Nobody about as he stated, so why signal? He stated then that the police regard such driving as being on automatic pilot, but more importantly it was showing a complete disregard of the use of observational skills. He also added that police regard this type of driving as being without due care and attention, and they could pull you up for it! You should assess every situation at all times and signal or not accordingly. Just as Ashley states in this video.

[@sharonlee9441]

I’ve been riding a motorcycle for many years, and since I’ve been watching your videos I’ve improved my riding. Thank you for all your helpful advice.

[@stisca]

This is starting to look at a bunch of a straw men tbh. Don't signal because it means you don't observe as much? Signaling automatically means your falling asleep? Signalling makes you rely on yellow flashing lights? Signaling everytime means you take signal mirror or other routines as gospel? Signalling ambiguously? Of course don't do those things. Yet, in the end, always signalling correctly and staying observant is better than staying observant alone.

[@jimmyccam]

Listening is part of the process also.

[@malcolm6951]

Ashley I think you hit the nail on the head; many learners are being taught to pass the test not given the training to drive afterwards. Surely driving is about assessing the situation as you are driving, even if you are driving the same route regularly the traffic and others road user action WILL NOT be the same each time!! Thank you for the videos they have been a great help in improving my driving and sometimes confirming I have developed some good techniques. 👏👍👌

[@daves-music]

A large proportion of driving instructors have always been guilty of teaching only to pass the test. The reasons are many and various including lazy attitude, ‘looking after my business’ and pressure from parents who are ignorant of what safe driving actually is. The last group actually encourage the next generation of drivers to be as impatient and ignorant as themselves. But that is the nature of parental and cultural influence.

[@AngelaH2222]

"In case you haven't seen someone" I'll admit that's ones of my reasons for indicating on a mostly free junction, but also in case someone comes along from behind obstacles or comes belting into range at a rate of knots, I forget the figures for "reaction times" , but by the time you see a speeding driver you have little time to react and indicate

[@alanesq1]

Hi, To me if a vehicle does not have the indicators flashing then it is indicating it intends to go straight on. I decided to get a definitive answer to this question once and for all, so I asked ChatGPT: "In the UK, it is generally expected that drivers will use their turn signals when turning or changing lanes. Failing to do so can be considered careless or reckless driving and may result in a fine or penalty points on your license. It is important to use your turn signals to let other road users know your intentions and to help prevent accidents. It is especially important to signal when driving in busy or crowded areas, or when driving in conditions that may make it more difficult for other road users to anticipate your movements, such as when it is raining or foggy."

[@markgillespie8842]

I still think yr flogging a dead horse. I signal if I feel it helps another driver or pedestrian. If not I don't signal. But the idiots that never signal don't do it thoughtfully, they just don't care. Rather have an over the top signaller than a non signaller imo.

[@peterhopkins4748]

Another good and useful video Ashley. Too many drivers have the habit of putting the car in gear and their brains in neutral when it comes to driving. Habit and familiarity are important factors in many accidents this is why so many accidents happen close to home. When parking in especially on busy roads or close to junctions and entrances rather than using a left indicator which might be confused with a turn signal I prefer to use hazard lights to signal that I am parking in and stopping.

[@earlebacciochi9796]

ASHLEY THANKS ! My biggest bug bear is people signalling right then left when going straight at roundabouts and not cancelling indicators after maneuvers ! 👍

[@PedroConejo1939]

That was a really bad habit of drivers in Pembrokeshire. I asked a local why he did it and he said, 'because I'm not turning left'.

[@boblawrence5011]

Yes, to indicate right then left is confusing but to indicate left when leaving a roundabout is helpful to other drivers wanting to join the roundabout, I wouldn’t indicate to leave a roundabout if there was nobody waiting to join of course.

[@PhillipParr]

Weirdly I've seen this and never understood it. It definitely doesn't say to do this at all in the highway code.

[@nct948]

@@boblawrence5011 I totally agree with you. It is slightly annoying and slows the flow of traffic when you are waiting at a roundabout to let the driver on it pass, to find that in fact he was turning before reaching you.

[@Hotoadle]

'Which mirrors?' is just a lazy prompt. It's not the fault of the instructor, but the instructor's instructor who taught them that prompt, and forgot to say use it just as a starting point. Always good to ask a follow up q. Such as, If I was driving in London how safe would it be never to signal? (A: you'd be surprised...but others not signalling helps to identify the 'stay well away from that one!' so it's all about 'fixing' others' mistakes). I skipped through and caught Ash saying 'you shouldn't fall asleep...'. classic!

[@TonyTheYouTuba]

I get what you’re saying and feel like I did from the start. The driver should be asking themselves when they push that switch, “Why did I do that, and at whom was it aimed?” If the answer is “because that’s how I was taught, and it’s for whomever is affected” then there’s that room for improvement you’re referring to. To reach the next level, you must know WHY that signal is being used, and what it is saying to the observer. And you should, where there is the possibility of doing so, have checked ALL the places that the other road user can be. And where, such as at one point in this video, you identity a place where the other road user cannot see you, then you factor that in your decision on whether or when to signal. The application of critical thinking. This is a subject that should be taught in schools from the youngest age. Don’t just do, THINK. Really solid here Ash, you’ve done a fine job. Some will dismiss right away, or take away a message that you’re not actually sending, but I feel you’re of the opinion that even if you get one person to be better then you’ve succeeded. And without a doubt, there’s a lot more than one.

[@AM2K2]

14:11 Poor Ashley 😭I will still signal to move onto my driveway when it is dark and there is 'no one around' - there is poor lighting and it is difficult to see people especially when they wear dark clothing, this is before I get onto the kids who ride bikes with no lights on

[@ashley_neal]

You need to watch to the end 😂

[@ashley_neal]

30:06 😂 👍 It's as if my comment was made for you

[@AM2K2]

@@ashley_neal ...that is why I commented!

[@AM2K2]

@@ashley_neal It's as if people watch a video and comment on the content...shocking 🤣

[@itsbilln2178]

@@ashley_nealI’m pretty sure they did! 😂

[@link01uk]

So, is there really no risk that you think there's no one around but you're wrong? Are there any road users you might miss even with a full set of observations for a left turn? Even battery scooters? Of course misleading indications are bad, but with the current collection of vulnerable (perhaps illegal) road users, you simply can't be sure you've seen everyone that might benefit from your signal.

[@itsbilln2178]

Some people are unfortunately very confident that they are practically perfect.

[@johncranna]

One situation, Ashley, where my late Dad and I are in agreement with you is to not indicate when you are returning to a left lane after doing an overtake. As you say, 'it is a given' that you will be returning to the left lane so there is no need for any signal and can lead to confusion on an A road where there could be left turns ahead. Keep up the good work and you educational lectures/rants!!

[@Hotoadle]

It's how it used to be taught. Signal out, signal in. Police training included. It's something to consider, if you need to do it to firm up that part of the overtake although that could imply poor judgement. You shouldn't be overtaking close to a junction, unless you can see it's clear for a stretch. In town I'd always signal if overtaking. But I think people mistake overtaking on a two lane road for lane changing e.g. using the outer lane on a motorway. You would signal for lane changing, surely?

[@maxmaxwell3787]

What IAM Advanced and Masters driving drills into you is the importance of OAP - Observation, Anticipation & Planning. This is key to all decision making and you are correct that habitual indicating is a lazy trait. Deciding whether or not to indicate should put the driver in complete control of their attitude to motoring skill.

[@programmer5855]

Yes, 100% agreed. I passed my test years ago but this is what my third - and last - driving instructor taught me. If I put my signal on when it was unnecessary I was challenged on it, that got me in the mindset of not just observing but processing my decision. You don't want to be on autopilot.

[@kiradotee]

I think there should be a good balance. There certainly exists signals that are pointless. If the lane splits from one lane into two - if you immediately make a decision to take left or right lane then a signal is completely pointless (nobody needs to give you way, as you were just travelling on a one lane!). Of course if you say go right and THEN decide to move left then you're changing a lane and ideally will put a signal, and definitely observations as somebody can now be in the left lane. Similar for example with overtaking a bus, you don't really need a signal for it if you're immediately going for an overtake as soon as you approach a bus that has stopped at a bus stop. Because it's expected you'll want to overtake the bus. And in some occasions if there's parking on the right side you could confuse people with a signal in that scenario. But I do think it's nice to put a signal on in situations when you would normally put it but don't want to because you think there's nobody around. No one is perfect, even if you've done your observations somebody could be hidden behind your A pillar or you just missed them, it doesn't require any effort to put a signal (unless you drive a BMW I've been told the signal lever weighs about 5kg, and you need to be an Olympian to move it).

[@PinkDraconian]

I was wondering something. I live in Belgium. Here the law states that with any sideways movement of your car, you NEED to use your indicators before making that move. It even states that you need to do this even if there is nobody near. I will remain using my indicators whenever I make a sideways movement, because of that. I agree with what you said, but wonder what you think of this.

[@paulforster7]

Ashley, I very much admire your efforts to improve driving standards but can’t let this one pass without comment because, probably like quite a few conscientious drivers here, I signal when there is (apparently) no one that can benefit from it. And it is categorically not a habit without thought! It’s part of a procedure that happens every time I’m changing direction/lanes etc, whereby I assess whether a signal would inform other road and pavement users of my intentions. If it could confuse, I don’t make any signal. If the decision is to make the signal but I’ve assessed that there’s no driver, pedestrian or other sentient being around to see it, I still signal! Why? Because, (assuming it’s a correct one) there is no downside to doing it and there may be something or someone, not currently visible, that’s about to arrive into the area of action that could benefit. Maybe coming up the side road that I’m intending to turn into or a number of other ways. A hurried dive for the indicator stalk while changing down a gear because a previously hidden car has just appeared isn’t good. I’ve been a passenger on several occasions when this has happened because the driver was “police trained”. So please don’t assume that all of us that taking this approach are just thoughtless and lazy. We combine the observant and correct signalling approach that you advocate - with the added element of a safety net should anything unexpected arise during our intended manoeuvre. It is the non signallers that should be educated - but they probably don’t watch your channel!

[@itsbilln2178]

This. As I’ve said I’m my main comment, this is the optimal approach. It just has to be. Common sense dictates this is the optimal approach. Ashley’s approach, and that advocated in Roadcraft etc, is essentially just an educational tool / method to help encourage drivers to think and observe. If you are capable of thinking and observing already, then you simply do not need to eliminate signals. In doing so, all you do is demonstrate that you feel you need to employ this technique to help you overcome some sort of barrier to thought and observation, which not pressing the indicator stalk magically fixes, whilst at the same time risking an incident caused by you believing you have observed that no one will benefit, only for the fallible nature of human biology to bite you in the bum.

[@paulforster7]

Good explanation- totally agree.

[@FlavourlessLife]

You said what I was thinking. And of course, none of this is an excuse for poor observation. Ashley said himself when talking about his roundabout driving fail that he can't look in all directions at once.

[@SongDesire]

@@FlavourlessLife If you go back to that driving fail video and look at a large percentage of the comments Ashley replied to, he is pretty much saying "but they indicated left". Which is contradictory to his usual mantra of "observe everything and dont focus on just the indicators" (I am paraphrasing). It is pretty ironic. Ashley used to reguallary reply to my commets on his videos till the BMW vs tractor video a couple of years ago. He stated that sort of incident would never happen to him due to his skill and level of observation while driving, and I disagreed and stated those are words that will not age well. Since then he never replied to a comment ive made (or if he has, ive not recievced a notification for it). Whether positive or negative. He even stated in the recent fail video he was close to home at the end of the day. The fact of the matter is, he got complacent in an area close to home, he got careless, and he didnt observe as well as he usually does. His roundabout fail proves what I was saying to him in those past videos. As does his escapade vs the fiesta in another video where he purposfully drove into danger with an obstructed lane instead of slipping in behind said fiesta for the sake of safety. I wonder if someone would pass or fail their driving test if either of these two scenarios occured? His ego overrides his better judgement sometimes. The fact he said "I am the professional" towards those that disagree with him in this video just goes to show this. Yet he apperently welcomes criticism and discussion. He derides anyone who disagres with him, or ignores. While praising the people who kiss his rear end. On this very video he even chastises a person for replying to other peoples comments. The vast majority of his videos are exceptional, its why I still watch them. I value the content in a large percentage of his videos, and I am always looking to learn and improve behind the wheel. Largely because I dont want someones death on my conscience, and I want to be a safe and considerate driver. But he is too arrogant on occasion, and needs a good slice of humble pie. We are all human, and we ALL make mistakes. The main thing I disagree with on the specific content of this video (and other recent singal related videos), is the implication by Ashley that anyone using indicators consistently are lazy and not observing. Not every driver who uses indicators for the vast majority of occasions will be doing it out of sheer automation. I use the indicators to show others what I intend to do on the roads. I also use road posistion and speed to show what I intend to do, and I observe everything I can. I look far ahead, I look into junctions I am turning into, I look between parked cars and through their windows (where possible) to try and get a glimpse of any potentional hazards. But based on what Ashley has been saying in these recent videos, I am a careless, lazy and unoberservant danger because I also use the indicators to show intent where I feel it is applicable. I had an exceptional driving instructor that taught me how to drive, not pass the test. He was, like Ashley. Someone who taught other driving instructors too. He taught me to the level where he felt his own children would be safe in a car with me driving. That was his standard for everyone he taught, and he would not allow his car to be used for a test if you didnt pass that mark with him. I passed my test thanks to his training with a single mark for hesitation. He drilled it into me the proper use of indicators, the proper timings, when not to use them. To look out for anything that could cause confusion for others, such as junctions and/or carpark entrences (ect) just before or just after a junction. Above all else, he taught me to be a thoughtful and considerate driver and to oberve everything. One thing Ashley should look at, is the legality of using/not using indicators. Because, as far as I am aware. You can actually get points and a fine for "careless and inconsiderate driving", and last I heard, not using indicators correctly comes under that. It may potentially also lead to a prosecution for "driving without due care and attention" should a collision occur. But since Ashley is the "professional" here, perhaps he should address not only his opinion on the matter, but research what the actual legislation is on this. Because after all, this is a "driver education" channel.

[@FlavourlessLife]

@@SongDesire Funnily enough, I just watched the tractor video (hadn't seen it before) and that was the exact situation I mentioned in the original indicator video of times where it could be potentially dangerous not to indicate (turning right into a small unmarked road with a fast car going for the overtake). Ash did actually reply to my suggestion with a single word, "stop", meaning if you were the car turning you should just stop and let the BMW go around you, which I don't disagree with, but indicators would make the situation much less dangerous. Watching that tractor video, it's obviously the BMW's fault, but I don't think it wouldn't have happened if the tractor signals had been more obvious. If the tractor could have seen the BMW (I have no idea what visibility is like in a tractor), it goes without saying that he should have not have committed to his turn, obviously, but honestly, the observation we can do always has it's limits, which is part of the reason why I will indicate even when I don't see anyone. It's a controversial topic, but I think these videos have been generally helpful of Ashley to get us thinking about how we signal, and how we can signal our intentions without indicators. But I do agree that ego gets the better of him occasionally. In several of his older videos he would instigate road rage with other drivers, I'm very glad to see he's grown past this.

[@rutube007]

I don't think there is too much to all this TBH. All you need to think before signalling is if it could be misleading in a given situation or not. If not, no harm in signalling all the time. Don't overthink after watching this, esp. if you are new to driving. It will make life unnecessarily more difficult if you are still learning. Come back and watch this video once you are a more confident driver, it will make more sense.

[@David-sw2fn]

Why I will have to agree to disagree with Ashley on this issue… I find myself in the position of rejecting a number of comments from people I respect here. However, I can’t on this occasion agree. I’m very late to the party here, so I suspect no one will read this anyway. It’s difficult to briefly comment on a thirty minute video, but here are the main points. 1. Is it worthwhile indicating even when you think no one is there? At the end of the video Ashley indicted that it would be “embarrassing” to indicate into a drive on an empty street. Many others have commented that signalling isn’t necessary when appropriate observations are made. This is, quite frankly, not an optimal approach to safety. We know that the overwhelming number of vehicle accidents are caused by human error. It’s important therefore to always be thinking of human factors. In essence that’s the science of why humans make mistakes. I often hear comments along the lines of “no competent surgeon would ever chop off the wrong body part” or “no competent pilot would ever fail to use the brakes/add fuel” etc etc. Of course we know that they do because the human mind is not infallible and is prone to both internal and external distractions. Anyone who claims 100% success in any task simply doesn’t understand quality or safety. Even sophisticated manufacturing and quality techniques do not have a 0% failure rate, yet Ashley seems to claim that it is “embarrassing” to act with failure in mind. I don’t think he’s necessarily to blame here as it seems this is the prevailing ethos for advanced driving techniques. This is old fashioned and needs to change. Are experienced drivers immune from this? Actually, no - those drivers tend to experience more traffic violations and see fewer traffic signals. Research also shows that in general drivers overestimate their own driving ability. 2. Does indicating routinely make a driver less likely to observe their surroundings? This is a statement that gets bounced around a lot. I am not aware of any evidence to suggest that this is the case. Some people have argued that signalling for all manoeuvres encourages some type of automatic cognitive response. This is a very complex area that’s difficult to summarise for social media. Any routine task - including undertaking observations - may be prone to automaticity. In simple terms this may be described as the mind undertaking a task with minimal attention and conscious effort. Research shows that experienced drivers are actually more prone to this (this is not entirely negative by the way). Can routine or very frequent processes lead to automaticity? Yes, but as I say you are checking observations very regularly anyway, so I don’t see that there is an additional risk building a signal into this. It is of course not a bad idea when driving to try and force ourselves into active thought (whether this is actually possible is somewhat contentious). I try to do this at pedestrian crossings with a “scan” comment implanted in my mind to look left and right. Does actively looking for someone to signal our intentions to help reduce the dangers of automaticity? Probably no more than actively checking whether someone is going to invade the space you wish to move to and then signalling. As many have pointed out, routine signalling can be an additional step that does not distract from a driver’s own observations. Studies are generally supportive that routine safety measures have a net beneficial effect. Are their drivers who signal and do not look? Yes. Are there drivers who do not look and do not signal? Yes. What we are debating here are the optimal actions of well meaning, conscientious drivers. 3. Can I ever be confident that no one will benefit from my signal? No human has instantaneous 360 degrees vision in a dynamic environment where hazards can come from any angle. So, no, you can never be sure, so why not just signal? I’ve seen comments suggesting that good drivers will instantly recognise every conceivable hazard and so adjust their signalling decision accordingly. In milliseconds….. 4. Is there anything wrong with routine procedures? Again, this is a complex area - generally routine safety processes are beneficial. Here, I don’t see any evidence of a significant downside to routine signalling. Often advanced users don’t like routine, standard processes. They can feel that this undermines their own autonomy and professionalism. I don’t think it does that at all. It is simply an acceptance of what we all should know at heart. We’re only human. We make mistakes. For the record I’m not talking about signalling in the wrong places or too early. What we’re talking about here is the benefit of routine signalling (eg turning left) when we think no one is around. I’m supportive of the channel so hopefully this comment will be taken in the positive manner it’s intended. I’m not trying to suggest I’m a better driver or more knowledgeable than Ashley. However, polite debate from people with different perspectives can be very useful. I certainly don’t claim to have omnipotent knowledge, so if I’ve missed some key evidence, please do let me know.

[@itsbilln2178]

Excellent comments

[@Poodz_]

You've put a lot of my thoughts into words here Ashley. I learned to drive in Australia, where indicator usage is mandatory for any moves to the right or left. I figured as soon as I started driving that there were many situations (going around parked cars etc) where it was dubious as to why you need to have that signal on, and whether sometimes they cause more confusion than if you just didn't put it on at all. Glad the highway code is much more reasonable here.

[@raymondbenjamins5884]

As to your point of not trying to do everything immediately, that's exactly how I've started working on it. I still put on my signal more often than I have to, but every time I do a maneuver that may or may not require a signal (and usuallyI do signal), I will evaluate the situation in my mind to determine if it was needed. I hope to build on my observational skill in this manner and to slowly transition into actually making that decision consciously.

[@drbennyboombatz9195]

I think the reason it's best to have new drivers signal always is because theres just too many variables for the average person to learn, I believe this kinda of fine tuning should be looked at after a person has "unconscious competence", when I was a new driver 25 yrs ago I'd miss certain things and it was better that I signalled, now I drive lorries into London and sometimes country lanes (basically all over the place) mistakes are very rare and I know what people are likely about to do and what they're most likely thinking, in my car there a certain times I don't signal but I know exactly whats going on, however I wouldn't try and pass this on to my son (a new driver) because he's got enough to contend with just to get to conscious competence

[@javiTests]

30:40 what is embarrassing is someone thinking they are never make a mistake, ever. We're all humans and we make mistakes. And I bet 100% of the people reading this, they have missed someone at least once, so yes, I agree we need to be aware of our surroundings all the time but a good signal (not misleading) that no one can see doesn't hurt anyone.

[@ibs5080]

Totally agree that in many cases, a nice early position is all that's necessary without a signal. Classic case is passing parked cars.

[@MrJohnny3shoes]

Thought you would have addressed the use of indicators on dual carraigeways/motorways. They should be turned off BEFORE the car is completely in the lane that they are changing into.

[@richardgiles2484]

Think you knocked the nail on the head with the word (thinking) people are far too busy with other things going on in life to think out responsibilities when driving 🤣

[@nizviz]

Disagree with the advanced training. Signals are also useful for not only road users but pedestrians, particularly at junctions. All road users should know when to signal, not just advanced. I think your signalling commentary is getting far too personal. I do agree there are many situations signalling is not necessary and you assume all people are signal centric which I find quite patronising.

[@ashley_neal]

I'm glad I've touched a nerve with some, it will make them think.

[@nizviz]

@Ashley Neal whose nerve has it touched. I just believe your commentary is drifting into confusion rather than clarification, demonstrated by your constant use of 'I' and not following the rules of the Highway Code. Perhaps it's time the highway code was improved.

[@rogerharrison4316]

I've been an advanced driver for 30 years - I take a refresher every three years with RoSPA - and I have to say I agree with you completely on signalling. You asked if you would be picked up on an advanced test for signalling on the approach to a T junction - no, I don't think you would, especially if you explain the reason for the signal (commentary is encouraged on advanced tests, of course). I would say it is better to signal before braking if possible but, as you demonstrated, it is necessary sometimes.

[@jimisimmonds8854]

All great points and this tends to be how I like to drive and observe myself - I always rely on my speed and positioning to communicate first and foremost, and I use the same to predict what others are doing. The problem with signals is they're too often used incorrectly, so if you made decisions based on another car's signal, such as to emerge, overtake, or change speed, you put yourself in considerable risk if they don't fulfil their communicated intention. Holding back and waiting until they actually commit to their intention or using other signals like speed and positioning to confirm their commitment will therefore always be the only safe way to drive. This all being said, I do have to challenge you on one thing: The idea that effective observations can be overwhelming to learner drivers isn't about laziness, it's about task stacking. These learners feel immense pressure to think about their pedals, their gears, their road position and speed, correct steering, as well as observing for highly dynamic hazards on the roads - be it traffic or other obstacles like tight corners, bollards, debris, potholes, and such... and they have to do all this while painfully aware their every action is being scrutinised not just by their instructor but by other drivers. Anxiety around this is the biggest reason people take measures like auto-signalling to reduce their task loading and relieve that anxiety, which would otherwise overwhelm them and make them ineffective at every aspect of driving. I'm sure, as an instructor, you experience it daily where a student will make a mistake and then be overwhelmed and make a hundred other mistakes shortly after. Another consideration is that half the population has a sub-100 IQ: Not to say this measures their value as people at all, but intelligence greatly determines a driver's ability to accurately observe the hazards around them and *to predict how they may evolve over time.* These problems could be alleviated by having students commit to far more lessons to build comfort, confidence, and habit for the parts we *can* autopilot, like finding the bite point, correctly steering, and breaking with the right pressure. I also think students who demonstrate significant anxiety or inability to adapt to changing road conditions and hazards around them should be encouraged to move into automatic cars, as this would free up some of that mental space for them to improve upon their observations. The problem with both of these solutions is that driving lessons are extremely expensive and automatic cars are more expensive and less available (and slightly stigmatised at times) - making them prohibitive for the main demographic in this situation: Young and minimum wage. I think driving lessons need government subsidy and minimum lesson requirements to build up these hazard awareness and response skills so that these young people can be safer on our roads.

[@derDrache1988]

Completely agree. If you use your signal whenever required by law without thinking about it, you do not observe properly. The exact same goes for stopping at red lights just because the law says so: it means you will automatically go when it's green without looking. So better use advanced driving skills: observe the junction yourself and if it's clear, go no matter of the traffic light. And another harmful autopilot: speed limits. If you adhere to the speed limit, you will obviously always drive up to that speed limit without regards to traffic or weather conditions. Advanced drivers ignore posted speed limits and pick the appropriate speed based on conditions themselfes, even if that speed is way above the posted limit. Some of you might say "that's against the law", but honestly, listen to Ashely: this is what Advanced Driving looks like ;) PS: if you do find this tips helpful, please google "irony" and do NOT drive a motorvehicle until you realize what the purpose of traffic laws is...

[@crazyedits50]

Your spot on Ashley. Too many people either don't indicate when they should or pointlessly indicate when they shouldn't . This can cause confusion in both circumstances. I've been taught to only indicate if it benefits others. : Rospa level 2 and 3 trained.. hgv and car driver.

[@marklittler784]

For unusual obstructions on busy roads I put a signal on really early to change lane and keep on whilst slowly changing lane over a long distance so it's more obvious to those much further behind there's an obstruction ahead.

[@kenbrown2808]

that's a very appropriate use of an indicator. I also like to give a couple flashes of my brake lights if something that might be an issue appears ahead, so people behind know to expect something unusual.

[@JohnnyHague]

I had many years of Motor Cycle Licence only - and found it incredibly difficult to pass my car test, because a developed road-sense is NOT what an examiner is looking for. I only succeeded by undertaking my test during a snow flurry and driving exactly after the MSM method. However, both experience and my driving instructor, always taught 'Signal If Necessary' - as the action to take, after making appropriate observations. This is the right method - and Ashley is absolutely right to take this up. The only thing I would add, is that there may be pedestrians in a 'blind' position - so that sometimes - for example when in a left turn only lane - it may be appropriate to signal even when there is no following traffic. I often observe the ' Signal after Manouvre' thing - especially in lane changing on Motorways.....

[@ianmason.]

I'll just add that a situation like " _there may be pedestrians in a 'blind' position_ " is an opportunity to consider using that oft forgotten signal - the horn. Indicating for people who are around a blind corner is a good idea and you may give them a fraction of a second extra visual warning, but the horn will give them even more warning than that.

[@JohnnyHague]

@@ianmason. Yes - good comment. I had a local junction in mind, which is left turn only. However, there are often cyclists on the pavement and a school nearby. So - no point indicating left for the traffic, but nice to warn others that you are there - and that's all.

[@jimmyccam]

@@JohnnyHague Cyclists & Pedestrians always count as "traffic" in my book. (and in the Highway Code)

[@ibs5080]

Re Pulling back in (to the left) is a given. But is it? Even if it was the correct thing to do, how do others know you are going to do the correct thing....and when? For example, how do other road users know that you won't be a lane hog and decide to stay in the right lane? Or that you might now want to remain in the right hand lane in preparation for turning right further ahead? What about a pedestrian standing on the left hand pavement and in the absence of any vehicles behind you, starts to cross by stepping off the left hand curb before you are past them and not realizing you are moving back to the left hand lane without signalling. Of course I realize the answer to that is if you are doing proper observation, you would take that possibility into account and signal...or better still, stay in the right lane until past. My take on that is that these things can get missed in a driving career that might span 60 or 70 years. And you only need to miss it once in 70 years for it to be an issue.

[@PedroConejo1939]

Thank you for this follow up. I knew the original would prompt ructions, and it did. I agree with the entire theme of this and particuarly like the point that no-one who has translated to signalling only when there is a need ever says, 'you know what, I'm going back to signalling all the time'. Even though you only just brushed on it at the end, the 'in case there's someone you haven't seen' was used repeatedly as a reason for always signalling in a number of discussions that I got into. I cannot understand how that has to apply to signalling (forcing you do indicate) but doesn't apply to emerging (forcing you to wait). If a driver's observations are so poor that 'there may be someone they haven't seen', then I would question whether that person should be driving. Maybe it was poorly worded but you dealt with this - there might be a situation where you _cannot_ see someone, and therefore signal, but observations will tell you that there is a blind spot, such as parked cars on a corner. A good driver knows what is around them and knows when there are potential unseen hazards. My signalling weakness is signalling when moving back after an overtake. It's a hard practice to break because I've driven so much in countries where failure to do so can land you with a hefty fine. Even so, I don't signal until I am sure I've cleared the vehicle I'm overtaking and am out of their safe braking zone. I get so many cars passing me that are already indicating left before they've got halfway past me. Sometimes, that is because the driver behind them is impatient and has closed the gap to bully them out of the way, but that is not always the case. I can guarantee that anyone who puts their left indicator on _during_ the overtake/pass will cut in far too close.

[@ashley_neal]

There wouldn't be a problem with your decision making as it comes with thought. I've never seen you drive, but I know already what type of driver you are. Your continued support and input is much appreciated!

[@PedroConejo1939]

@@ashley_neal Thank you, that means a lot, and you're welcome. This is by far the most interesting channel I subscribe to and the comments section is always lively.

[@ianmason.]

"I can guarantee that anyone who puts their left indicator on during the overtake/pass will cut in far too close." Not always the case. If I'm overtaking and get someone coming up behind me "from nowhere" (i.e. either their speed is really excessive or they've just cut across two lanes for the overtake) I will put on an " _I'm returning to the lane I started my overtake from_ " signal really early to encourage them to wait for my move rather than attempting something dumb like cutting in in front of whomever I've just overtaken and undertaking me (I've seen it happen). I'll still wait until I've cleared enough space before moving back.

[@PedroConejo1939]

@@ianmason. You are a rarity. I've never seen anyone indicate early yet still wait until they have cleared my safety zone before pulling over.

[@kenbrown2808]

@@PedroConejo1939 it is the only driving channel I've seen where differing opinions discuss their position instead of going directly to name calling.

[@alasdairmacleod8420]

My driving instructor from many years ago said that you should only signal if there is someone that needs to be informed about your intent to move in a certain direction. They also said do no signal in a left or right turn lane as it would eb a fail due to showing a lack of understand such as why are you signalling in a left turn lane you should only be there if you are turning left.

[@MatrixFuse]

"Not going to turn this into a rant" *proceeds to rant like Derek Accorah posessed* 😄

[@itsbilln2178]

Nope. People should be taught to observe and consider whether a signal is *likely* to be beneficial, and then consider that they are fallible human beings who, unless they’re driving somewhere they know for a fact is deserted, may have missed a pedestrian, kid on a bike / scooter etc etc. And yes, pedestrians will act on a signal, whether we like it or not, so not putting one on when turning into a junction, for example, because you think you’ve observed that no one would benefit, is dangerous. It’s simply not the optimal method. I see how it’s an educational tool to get people to think about observations, but it just is not the optimal way to go about things. And equating fall back signalling (indicating after having fully considered that no one is likely to benefit, in case you’ve made a human error and missed that kid on a bike), equating that with never actually emerging from a junction in case you’ve missed something oncoming..is just silly.

[@facelessvaper]

I see at on bike, people are passing at the new safer distance then indicating to move back left once past, it's odd because they have cleared me by a fair distance. On a different topic, do Tesla's have rear wiper?😜

[@carusmike]

For the little it's worth. I completely agree.

[@oldbaldguy6151]

Interestingly, I work as a reach truck driver in a warehouse full of other RT drivers and pickers on trucks. NONE of us have signals on any of the trucks and we rely on observations alone. SOME of us use hand signals, but only very few!!

[@bigfella1952]

I was taught to signal all the time on a roundabout, keep the right hand indicator on until your exit is the next left exit, then change to a left indications, so everyone knows where your going, obviously watching the other traffic as well..

[@rufusgreenleaf2466]

I'm glad you talked about MSM being flexible as i've not always been able to signal before the brake. Some national speed limit roads slow back down to 30 before any junctions are available. The brake always comes first.

[@Denali1600]

Indicating depending on situation makes sense, the original video just had a couple of instances where by not indicating it compromised the safety of other road users, as in those situations an indicator would have reduced risk for others.

[@bikerstuff2]

We drive on the left, when returning to the left, I do not signal as that is where I should be. No one will gain from my indication. Before I signal, I decide if it will benefit anyone. Signalling too early, especially on roundabouts or where there are multiple turnings can cause accidents.

[@neiltill]

Another great video Ashley, I'm try so hard to implement your suggestions on your videos even when I'm driving buses makes my passenger comfort whilst on my vehicle a safe and comfortable one so my passengers are benefiting from your videos even though they don't know it, so thanks Ashley.

[@markc2767]

I've had this situation with impatient drivers on Stanley/Scottie Rd, particularly by the Doc's towards the junction with Boundary St. So many people try to undercut you once you're beyond the parked cars outside (about ten yards beyond is a side-street with the clinic car park, and about fifteen yards further is the actual junction. I've found the easiest way to deal with that is overhanging both lanes while there's parked cars up ahead. Denotes I dont want to be in the outside lane and will conform to the left once it is safe.

[@Mooks_24]

Hi Ashley, I am a pdi and I found your video on giving signal really helpful and it's given me more understanding on when and when not to and using it as a begging signal when joining traffic. But I use your video in my teaching. Keep up the good work.

[@leeelvin4962]

My ADI taught me that the S in MSM didn't always mean the car's indicators, that brake lights or even your road position were just as much signals to other road users. He also told me that, on the test, signalling when unnecessary could result in a minor fault for lack of observation.

[@chaosmagican]

In Germany they teach you when driving onto the motorway to basically come in with your left signal on. Like what for? It's quite literally clear that I want to merge because that's the only thing I can do, I rather indicate when I plan to do so near the end of the on ramp. Because some put the signal on and just go for it

[@StefanVeenstra]

We got a lot of Y-junctions in residential neighbourhoods here. 3 way junctions with no going straight, no matter what direction, you are making a turn. Hence I was taught to “always” signal at such intersections. Though many drivers and cyclists seem unaware of it or consider whatever direction the street name continues to be the straight/priority road. (Many intersections in residential neighbourhoods don't have yield or stop signs here, people rely on knowing the rules of priority to figure out who gets to go first) I know of one such intersection I don't have to signal (but I still do out of habit) coming from 2 directions, because the third is a one way street you're not allowed to enter from that intersection. (Obviously approaching the junction from that one way street you have to signal if you're going left or right.)

[@willloosley3214]

28:47 what is the reasoning behind only half moving out when there are parked cars? Would it be less confusing for the red car behind if you moved into the right hand lane for this section of road? Great video though

[@Mango0fDoom]

As you say, so many signals are not needed because they're implicit, or add no value. But even a minor change in the situation can cause a rethink here. For instance if I'm in lane 2 overtaking and a car behind is not closing, it may not be needed because it's implied especially if I've just come out e.g. overtaking a lorry. If a car is closing, it selves as a signal "I am getting out your way". It's a small difference but that's where paying attention helps.

[@thomaselliot2257]

Your bit of a rant is delivering the whole point of what you are trying to achieve in getting the mindset to change from the robotic actions prior to the manoeuvre.

[@grahamnutt8958]

An Educational Rant is perfectly ok in my book. It certainly is not the same as a "Sunday Roast" as often seen on a certain dashcam channel which I know you have watched on occasion. Situation Awareness is key. Get that "bit" right and the rest should fall into place. Stay safe out there.

[@kevinmartin8088]

One thing that stuck out on this video (and some others of yours, Ashley), is how little traffic there is around Liverpool, for a large city. No wonder you can go a fair while not indicating, because there is no one to advise of your intended movements! One thing that you said, which I believe is far more important than picking times when you choose not to, is of course TIMING OF USING INDICATORS. It is highly dangerous if for example, you put them on too early, when someone is waiting to come out of a side street and you intend turning AFTER where they are.

[@R04drunner1]

Absolutely LOVED this video. Informative and highly amusing seeing Ashley in rant mode! Look at the body language, the raised and wagging finger. Passionate and accurate. At 10:28 I can assure you that Advanced drivers would not object to your use of a left turn signal as you approached the seemingly empty junction. I say that as a long-standing IAM Roadsmart member and holding an IAM Roadsmart Masters with Distinction (thanks in part to your videos, which I used in preparation for the Masters test). If I had been doing a driving commentary at that stage, I would have said something like this: "We're at the information stage of IPSGA approaching this junction. Although I cannot see any other road users, I am putting a left turn signal on because I can reasonably expect an oncoming road user to be out of my sight at the moment. My signal will be useful to them to show my intent to turn left once I reach the junction." It's not just what you can see: it's what you can reasonably expect to be happening in the area you can't see.

[@itsbilln2178]

Given this premise (which I agree with), I just cannot accept that there is a good reason to ever “reasonably expect” the totally unexpected won’t ever happen. When the totally unexpected does eventually happen, I’d rather have my indicator on, having considered that whilst there is no one I can see who would definitely benefit, and also no one I can’t see but whom I reasonably expect may be out of sight and would benefit, it would be arrogant of me to assume that my “expectation” of what may or may not be around the corner is alway going to be accurate enough, every single time, such that I should save myself the last bit of effort in turning on the relevant indicator.

[@R04drunner1]

@ItsBillN I think the key is "reasonably expect". If, for example, I come to a junction that is totally open and I can clearly see that there is nobody who would benefit from a signal, I won't put a signal on. It would be unreasonable to expect somebody to pop up suddenly from thin air. The important thing is to be carrying out proper observations and to be making appropriate decisions accordingly. In practice, there is plenty of grey area. As long as you can make a considered case for giving a signal, you can reasonably go for it, even erring on the side of caution.

[@itsbilln2178]

@@R04drunner1 Yes, I think everyone really ought to err on the side of caution when operating a vehicle.

[@daves-music]

It’s about timely and effective signals having done sufficient anticipation and planning. Place yourself in the position of others to decide if you would be helped by the signal if you were them. As far as advanced tests are concerned, Ashley, I’ve done most of them and I can assure you that even though there are guidelines and advice as to how to achieve their particular standard (they differ), there is often a difference in how one advanced instructor may advise and interpret in a situation as compared to another. Some are just as tied up in habitual behaviour as you describe. 😊

[@flatturdphd2066]

The ones who over indicate at roundabouts get me (my uncle does this btw) going straight on, indicates left as he pulls onto the roundabout, then right as he moves around the roundabout, then left into the exit... I've seen so many of his generation doin the same

[@ralphalder14]

I agree with you on 99% of everything you say… I’ve even changed my thinking on using both lanes when 2 lanes become 1 and using all the road space. However I do always use signals, as there might be someone who you can’t see who might rely on them to determine where you are going (a hidden pedestrian or cyclist with no lights etc). I agree that the road positioning can give this information but what about your newly qualified, inexperienced driver (like my 18-year old son) who might be less clued up on reading these signs? Keep up the good work I do love your videos 👍👍

[@peterhewson4568]

I agree with almost everything you say (I have done both motorcycle and car advanced training). But your "driver fail" roundabout emerge was a mistake. There was no one in front, so your focus should have been to establish beyond doubt where the BMW was going. You started to pull out when it wasn't certain where he was going. It was impatience, which you normally deplore! Don't get me wrong though, that was a rare error!

[@chrisellis5888]

I was watching "Traffic Cops" on TV the other day. The program included a chase, and the car being chased signaled every time he came to a junction. Talk about automatic signalling. Very helpful for the police driver though 🤣🤣

[@colindempsey2155]

Love your videos very educational, I agree that when driving there needs to be more observation when driving, as for signalling I admit that I get stuck in a certain mindset when driving, also when I passed my driving test I was driving down a built up area with parked cars and I started to slow down, then the examiner asked why i slowed down i said because I saw someones feet in-between the parked cars I saw the feet further back.

[@philclements6314]

Hi Ashley. Excellent subject, which did cause a lot of reaction in the 'not signalling' video. What are your thoughts on roundabouts? I live in a town which proudly boasts a total lack of traffic lights but is replaced with a multitude of roundabouts (it's not far from you). Traffic flow is generally excellent but over recent times I have noticed more and more drivers signalling right until past the first exit and then signalling left for the second (essentially driving straight through rather than a left or right turn). Their positioning suggests taking the second exit as they take a left lane position but the right signalling prevents any right turning user to fully use the available lane. I would add that practically all the roundabouts in Skelmersdale are large enough for two lanes of traffic around them.

[@1988dgs]

I was told to signal if anyone will benefit from it, that extends to people you can’t see, ie there are parked cars beyond the turning you are taking, there could be someone sitting in the car thinking “I’ll get our when this car passes… oh, it turned off” someone walking down the pavement could be thinking “I could cross in front of this car but I’ll wait till it passes… oh, where has it gone”. It also confirms you know where you are going, there are a few left turn lanes here, but people come down the left lane then cut across to queue jump, with a car pulling up on the left but not indicating either the vehicle at the front of the queue has to either beat the left lane at the lights or not go in case they are going to cut across, a left turn confirms you are actually turning so removes the stress in the main lane

[@nobbycheeseman2915]

Yeah I think when some people have heard other say they indicate all the time, they have taken it to mean we switch our brains off and only consider the one moment we are in, but we will still do our full observations and think ahead, but account for someone emerging from behind a wall, or hedge, or from an alleyway who we can't see and who might not be paying attention to us, but to have a signal flashing as they emerge will alert them to us and also give us some ammo in an insurance claim if the person is hit and says we had no signal saying we were turning. With moving back into a left hand lane, if there was no left turn ahead, I would indicate all the time, but if there was, I wouldn't because the left hand lane would deem the signal unnecessary due to possibly causing confusion.

[@1988dgs]

@@nobbycheeseman2915 yea, they consider the “someone might want to know what we intend to do” with the “I’m doing it anyway” brigade. The difference is the intelligent group will change their intentions if it becomes a problem to others, the second don’t. We have a few multi lane roundabouts here and some always get into the wrong lane, then stop at the lane splits totally blocking one 70mph lane until someone in the other let’s them in

[@bramelsheretan]

Brilliant, I agree with you regarding the "advanced" courses these days. Both IAM and RoSPA are only above the basics which should be the minimum. True "advanced" would be John Lyons. 1, I'd like to see someone who is a disabled driver work with you on your channel. I have issues with certain aspects and I drive to cater for those weaknesses. 2, Should you drive to your weaknesses or strengths? I say both... Love your channel and the information you put out, as usual, many thanks

[@DashCamSheffield]

*sigh* Indicating is a luxury, you don't need to indicate UNLESS by not indicating makes the situation dangerous/confusing. Be aware of your surroundings. However, I regularly get cars sat up my bumper when I turn into my street despite indicating, due to a stupid herd mentality where people indicating left for the following junction, and don't expect me to turn the first left.... Also understand what others can or cannot see. Had this yesterday, a group of peds crossing the road as I slowed for a red light. They entered the road when my A pillar blocked my view of them. Only saw them when I saw hints of the dog leads....

[@marklittler784]

Trouble is there are times where an indicator could be useful to somebody you are not aware is there like someone sat in a parked car with no lights on at night.

[@marklittler784]

Yeah slow to turn early then the driver definitely knows your intending to turn

[@thescottishpanda5]

I'm a cyclist. What about when it's preferable not to take my hands off of the handle bars? I don't signal in the multitude of situations where this is the case and I have never had any problems. Shoulder checks and eye contact, positioning, and speed are enough. This is what I do if I want to lane change from right to left lane: I shoulder check, looking at the car to my 7:00 or 8:00 position. Then I move to the left side of the right lane. Another shoulder check, then comes the eye contact, then (a lot of the time, but not always) the car holds back for me and I move over into the left lane. I give a courtesy wave and continue on my journey. I don't think signals are essential. If the situation would benefit from a signal and it's unsafe for me to remove my hands from the handle bars, then I go slow, use positioning, speed, and eye contact. Not arm signals. From a non-licence-holding cyclist.

[@Jason_______]

I was always told to only signal if you think someone else will benefit from it.

[@Jimages_uk]

I think you really hit the nail on the head around the 9 minute mark, far to much emphasis is on getting students to pass a test, instead of actually teaching them how to drive. I am pretty sure my own test was all like that, doing things almost parrot fashion.

[@kennyboyle4042]

When people make comments like this, I feel it's more like a competition on 'who is the better driver' and trying to point out petty faults like mentioned is just trying to make them sound like they know more. It's not just driving it's with everything. People find that if they criticise, it makes it sound like they know more. Like on Facebook mum groups, they put other mums down to make them sound like 'super mum' whereas if they didn't have to reassure themselves, they would be secure enough to give constructive criticism.

[@bulwinkle]

One other technique that I regularly use is to debrief myself after every trip, reviewing what I did well and what I could have done better, a habit carried over from flying. Oh, and brake lights are also a signal.

[@shokdj1]

I had someone signal left and not turn left when I was leaving a junction, I shouldn’t of assumed they was turning left ended up having a near miss that would of been my fault, now I look for signs of them turning left rather than relying on the indicator.

[@rufusgreenleaf2466]

I could feel the anger in this video, was half expecting Ash to suddenly grab the camera being just his face in view going "Stop driving like a friggin loony!"

[@ianormonroyd745]

This, plus the original "no-signal" video has definitely got me thinking a lot harder about when to, and when not to... Great stuff as always.

[@anthonypaynter828]

Yet another brilliant video. I am so pleased you have included this signaling video. I have always believed in the idea that the positioning of your car is as much of an indicator of your intentions as signaling unnecessarily. When there is a dedicated left or right turn, I sometimes signal before I reach the lane but then cancel the indicator rather than sitting there with the indicator on, which would often be dazzling the driver behind, especially at night. I would be so interested to see a mention of the dreaded rear fog lights! So many people put them on when it's slightly misty or even when it's just raining. It is so dazzling and potentially dangerous on motorways because it is difficult to make out when brake lights are coming on several cars ahead and which are just the bright fog lights. The only time I ever use rear fog lights is when it is a real thick fog but as soon as someone has caught me up, I cancel them so it doesn't dazzle them. It is unnecessary to keep them on all the time.

[@radishpea6615]

I only watched about 12 minutes of this, it is all I could stand. If anyone got to 12 minutes and has no questions about what has been said and done, that is a worry to me. I am sure we all know we could drive every day without using indicators and not get flashed, hooted or be involved in a collision. What we may not know, is the amount of annoyance we cause other road users. Ashley may talk about the "extra thought" being given to the "do I need to indicate" thinking, if he does can someone tell me at what point in the video he does this, I may watch that part.

[@lesliedavison752]

I only got to 3 minutes before I had to make my comment about Ashley is making too many assumptions regarding the driving skill of other drivers.

[@malccraven5276]

The compulsory left turn near the end, I would have signalled *IF* there was a pedestrian approaching. Mostly because they may not have seen or may not understand the relevant signs