Signs You are Being Idealized or Devalued

Idealization takes from a few hours to a few days from the moment of introjection (snapshotting).
Snapshotting occurs instantly when the narcissist decides that you could serve as an intimate partner in the shared fantasy or a source of narcissistic supply.
Signs that you are being snapshotted (introjected) and idealized (lovebombing phase):
Probing (scanning for vulnerabilities) disguised (and experienced) as limerence or infatuation
Data mining
Accelerated intimacy and ostentatious trust
Impairing reality testing (for example, by constantly justifying your behaviors; casting you as a victim; comparing you favorably as superior to others, past and present; reframing your failures as unmitigated, unalloyed success)
Communicating idealized internal object and behavioral expectations (possessiveness, monopolizing your time, control freakery, intrusiveness, surprises, realization of fantasies)
Trophy parading you in public (ostentation)
Hypersexuality and competitive sexual praising (bait, trap, intended to cause addiction or form a bond)
Coercive snapshotting
When the idealization is complete, the narcissist stops talking mostly about you and starts to talk mostly about himself.
Signs of imminent devaluation and discard by the narcissist:
Emotional absence, indifference, and coldness
Affected “civility”
Constant criticism and denigration
Passive-aggression
Unfavorable comparisons
Setting you up for failure and misconduct
Paranoid ideation and pathological jealousy
Sudden secret actions (financial or romantic)
Public disparagement and humiliation, also with common children
Sex withholding or degradation
Cessation of all joint activities, especially of a social nature
Pervasive distrust and micromanagement
 
Discard reenacts unresolved separation phase.
Individuation depends on devaluation (in order to preserve grandiosity and exit the shared fantasy) and externalization-projection (reversal of internalization-introjection). When either of these two processes fails, hoovering results.
So, emotionally, discard precedes devaluation. The narcissist hangs on to his partner only in order to complete the devaluation.
Devaluation resembles also the separation phase in adolescence: reactance (defiance), contempt, distancing, negative identity formation, approach-avoidance.
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[@nahidkaramali3823]

It makes sense why we feel so disappointed, unheard, and frustrated when you communicate with narcissists-they never see you or hear your real you-they even make you feel special because they want to use it for what they desire,not because you are special to them.

[@mindyjones333]

So true😞

[@darlakowalski2248]

I live on an island in Alaska with 17years of hurting with my narcissist husband. With your lectures I am finally able to make sense of the behaviors and the intense pain. No therapists in a fisherman's village. So please keep helping us! The confusion and hurt have been disorienting. Thank you for providing clarity. I pray to God to keep you willing to share your knowledge with us!

[@inpursuitofhappiness9441]

Jesus Christ! This is SO correct, to the finest nuance!, that it’s actually funny. The good thing, once you understand these dynamics and you understand what in you allowed for this to happen, you are free …. It is truly about us, and not about them. They are who they are, the question is always - why we stepped into this horror show and why we stayed in it.

[@terryhutchings7701]

Until two years ago I didn’t know these people even existed. Obviously, I had come across jerks and assholes, but nothing prepared me for what was to come. No contact and therapy for yourself is the only way to heal from this abuse. Certainly, I had my own issues setting boundaries, so I accept my responsibility as well in that whole debacle of a relationship.

[@leonardlisa8318]

Wow this one goes wayyyy deep!!!!! He communicates with an avatar that he has made up in his mind because he does not care to put in the time to get to know a real person. What jerks and weirdos!!! I hate that I got mixed up with all this. Now my life is picking apart someone else’s sick brain. Get this… my narcissist husband is a state psychologist. Only makes it worse because he thinks no one is on to him because he is sooo smart. So sad. I just try to live a separate life. “half baked human being”… Smdh so very true.

[@fatumakim4217]

That's why communication with them feels off to lightly put it it's like you're talking on different layers same language but the words don't land the same this used to frustuate me so much but now I Know. IN THE end I told him its like you didn't see me never accepted me nothing.

[@co5mo]

the only video you will ever need watching it for the 5th time

[@rachelinthelionsden]

Yessss they literally scan you. Like I felt like I was being watched all the time. I’m glad to learn the language: cold empathy.

[@meriemmimi104]

They look through you, you're transparent to them

[@poupou5833]

it's like a burglar who look around a house before trespasing in and robbing all the valuable things leaving it empty

[@nmontani]

X-ray vision. I often felt awkward somehow. I guess it was more naked.

[@federalbranch4005]

Thanks again Prof Vaknin. I watched many self style experts before running into your channel. Once you explained the pathology, lights, bells, and whistles started going off; puzzle pieces started to fit. You're the authority on this on this subject matter. Thanks for enlightening us all. Helping us make sense out of madness 💚

[@Margaret__B]

We met and things moved very fast, he proposed on the second day, I was pregnant on the third day and we got married in six months. RED Flags 💔 What followed was my worst nightmare 😭

[@meriemmimi104]

It's been a year since I ended this nightmare and even though you're saying it's not about me I still feel shame inferiority and guilt . I'm trying to build my self again but after a year I still don't even know what I am

[@poupou5833]

it takes time but anyone can heal keep on doing the inner work

[@anthonyguignard3565]

You're not guilty and definitely not inferior. You learnt a lot and you survived. You can be proud.

[@DeeCee1878]

You have been through quite a battle. Wear you headdress with pride. Every so often, a new feather will appear. Warrior status will eventually be yours!

[@DeeCee1878]

These are such great videos. I only wish I had known what NPD was about years ago. I have been through 20 years of push-pull, connect-disconnect, splendor and deep heart ache… until his final discard came. I feel for the new supply. She is just beginning to feel that anxiety and chaos these people cause. And it only gets worse as they age.

[@joannepownall1213]

You have explained my marriage as if you were my lawyer/shrink. Something I struggled to explain or put my finger on... Mind blowing yet freeing.

[@NewSkiwi]

Same here! It is uncanny.

[@girlynerds611]

A never ending cycle unfortunately😔

[@DeeCee1878]

Every word! The process happened just exactly as you described. It is hard to embrace the idea that he was incapable of connecting, even during oceanic sex, but I recognize now that my intuition was correct.

[@kara_xo]

fantastic video, Sam! it is very disheartening and disgusting. the devaluation/ discard has made me and many others question their sexuality because after playing out all of the events, the reality testing, the cruel approaches and mistreatment.. even now i ask myself if he is into the opposite sex . it never made sense. the behavior was so strange and bazaar.. progressively child like too. i’ve had question of being separated from the victim/ woman for so long.. they can go without intimacy/ sex?? after being so intimate and sexual… I have questioned the sexuality of the abuser and became even more suspicious!

[@tinasmith7630]

I just love how u express the truth in such a matter of fact way. U r gifted in communication n humour. N it lightens a sad heavy topic.

[@pfergpaint5473]

this man told me all I ever could ask about what the fk happened LOL..better than batman

[@tamiduncan777]

😫 He passed away in May 2023 .all of this reality is still hitting me wave on Wave I am healing a little at a time. Thank you for sharing all of this important educational training .Mr Vaknin .

[@mapleleaf902]

Let the healing begin. You are free. Hugs.

[@tamiduncan777]

Thank you for your kindness ❤️

[@annabrahmsen9979]

My experience also ! I think because he thought he had all the info up front from observing my general behaviour . Having decided for himself he was right about me he had no need of further input . 🤷‍♀️

[@Donken98A]

Sam’s videos bring more knowledge when you rewatch them. The best explanation to this disorder

[@rimcoeijzenga991]

The proces, exactly this. What fascinates me most, looking back, is when one wants to leave during the devaluation fase (if I’m all wrong then let’s break up and let me go) there’s really no way of getting out. Its their proces to finish.. it all keeps haunting my mind even after all the great video’s. Crazy making stuff

[@amycoffman9092]

Ok but one thing, I feel like I've been goin through the devalue and discard stage for 6 yrs now. He breaks up with me but then stops me from leaving hy mean of making my car unable to start/run. He can't keep me here by words alone. He wrecked my car completely so now I don't have my own transportation. He's isolated me. I feel like a prisoner but then kicks me out every other day. I live in a rural area and have 3 dogs. Can't just walk away either. He's also made me dependant on him financially. He'll threaten my friends if they try to come get me. Why not just let me go. It's exhausting just being around someone that acts like they hate you. Alot of his devalue tactics didn't work on me. He can't convince me that I'm a shitty person and no one loves me. I'm not brand new and he seems amateur specially when he lies. I don't get mad when he calls me names. I just same the same name back to him and I think that effects him more than he shows. He can't embarrass me cuz I've never cared what the vast majority of ppl think of me. He can't threaten to leave cuz that's what I want. He doesn't do silent treatment cuz that's more of my thing and I do that out if necessity cuz he will get violent but if I ignore him he tends to calm down. Like not fueling the fire. If I do manage to get away, he'll come looking for me or the thing he does now to get me to come home is manipulate or create some emergency situation and needs my help. I have a hard time saying no to that. So all this devalue and discard yet won't let me leave. I don't get it.

[@JessicaG1971]

27-32:52 has been my life. I thought, and he says, that he was just trying to help me be better. He always brags about me, but it's always because if I have her, I'm special. It's always felt icky but I thought that's what loving partners did.

[@abbeyphadima709]

Thanks Prof , this one is big you just explained the whole disorder in and hour, this is therapy

[@Lynch888a]

Thank you for the video 💕 Had to pause it, at the description of devaluation. Got a lump in my throat. So exact, precise words you used. It really hurt like hell. I was confused and shocked. 3 months of love bombing and then 3 months of devaluation, just 3 months of total nightmare, feeling like in some mental twisted horror movie. Where everyday I was losing my confidence piece, by piece , slowly losing my mind. Everything happened so fast. And so much mental damage. I dont understand how ppl can tolerate this for years, its a torture. One day (after his male "friend" opened my eyes on him) I just exploded, told him everything, blocked , deleted, went no contact. First thing I did, next day, while having a withdrawal and urge to write to him, is to google to find maybe someone else who also experienced this. I knew this was absolutely not normal breakup and relationship. Phrases like " you are too sensitive", "I have never said that", etc lead me to gaslighting, that lead me to Narcissist and then to you, Sam 😊 you saved my sanity, and reading other comments how bad it might get, my life.

[@elenren]

He creeps me out, I don't even need to analyze him.

[@noneya3338]

This is fabulous! I appreciate your information. It is not easy to explain introjects, or the process by which introjection works, but this is excellent and spot on. It helped me understand exactly what happened in my step family for 3 and now 4 generations. It's a mixed blood line that I am not involved in, but my advice to all of them is to stop having children. I've seen and watched the abuse, and how they victimize their closest relatives, all for the protection of their false realities, all of whom have suffered at the hands of their parents. I'm so gone from this "family", it's as if I'm not even a part of it anymore. They now have a shared psychosis, and have become even more hostile than before. They are pathetic adults.

[@ritafarruggio2025]

You are a blessing prof!

[@ProdigyScope]

Your best lecture yet!

[@ellencaulfield]

Such accurate insightful information, thank you

[@canuckitty99]

Brilliant video. Thank you Prof. Vaknin

[@JennyStanier]

Great video. Appreciate the explanations. Thank-you for injecting some humour into an otherwise emotionally heavy subject.

[@justsaiyansteve]

These videos are so insightful. Thanks Professor Sam Vaknin your work is eye opening for humanity!

[@vladimirbogosavljevic414]

This colorful description pretty much describes my life past 3 years. Thank you professor Sam for saving my life, twice! First time back in 2017, and now. Greetings from Serbia! I really hope that I will meet you in person one day.

[@govandahmed1846]

I am surprised how true his speech.

[@co5mo]

all happened to me

[@amandaherbert9664]

Good one. Thank you.

[@hiiakaikapoliopele2056]

I love you Dr. Vaknin ❤ So Real and true

[@kristifrankson7991]

I need intellectual & emotional understanding lines to connect....thankful for you.

[@nicoletacherechesu1576]

Thank youuu…..you represent my healing……..

[@NigerWifeChronicles]

Listening gets me angry then sad. The fantasy I held onto long time even though actions were contrary to it being real

[@estelladog1]

Broken record of my life I swear! Ugh and uglier! Prof SV is the best! Thanks for all these great explanations! My gosh time after time keep getting re-educated. I just need this on a loop! No joke.

[@marciabarry1551]

wow, your really are interesting, thank you i like learning because i have lived in this world for a long time...thank you again......

[@maligjokica]

I am now in divaluating faze from my narc wife, but i notice that in our case(16 years of marige) i expirienced it several times,but this time is ..oh boy!one sided witholding sex and ecoruaging me to find other woman so she can use that agains me. After finding about Prof.Vaknin and narcisim in general i went to a lawer for divorce(i had enaf of this BS) and she told me that our dauther (7) will be granted to her(!!!)..after they are 12 it will be more easy..5 more years of this hell!!! Thanks to prof.Vaknin at least that i know the proces now and unfortunaly i must take some psihopatic caracteristic just to navigate with my narc wife.😢 P.S there are europians on this chanel,even from the city that prof.Vaknin lives😊 greeting to all from Skopje and stay strong!

[@katadam2186]

I feel concerned for the child because a narc/ Bpd mother will devalue, ignore, overburden,gaslight,manipulate not love just take or be the fake friend N mothers crush the authenticity… keep a close eye on her and remember never let them know what you now understand about them

[@moniquenel854]

I listen time and time again to your talks. Every time I listen it still disturbs and disgusts me to my core. These very sick individuals should come with a warning sign over their heads. I still battle with internal anger towards my ex narc from time to time. Esp after listening to how sick these individuals are. I wish i could have just skipped this whole phase of my life. The amount of emotion, love , time , devotion I poured into him I will never get back. They are parasites in human form.

[@Homejames121]

My son is so gone in a relationship as you described not only that she set him up and put him in jail and he's finally out and went back to her and is not talking to me because I'm the one that has been giving him books and trying to educate him on the fact the sad part is I believe he knows that he's very smart even has a PHD in industrial psychology and a JD I don't know how you can help but if there's something you can do some advice or something that would be fantastic we'd save a life together maybe. Moreover I think he likes it because he hasn't had the any experiences with anyone else she kept him so close and micromanaged everything he was not allowed to do anything in a very furtive t way she accomplished all this to a very educated really good guy

[@shelleybain705]

Every word is on point!!! Hard to believe really. Thank you Sam

[@mtr0469]

So this means my partner has bpd/npd and is also OLD( obsessive love disorder) . He has symptoms of all 3. He hasn’t been talking or seeing me for a week now. I just hope he continues to do so. For the past 18 months was a rollercoaster ride of emotions. He refuses therapy. And hates me for being honest with him about his condition. He avoidance of me is actually advantageous on my part. I think he is in the devaluing stage.

[@samvaknin]

OLD is a proposed diagnosis, not yet an accepted one. Watch my video on love addiction.

[@kristifrankson7991]

Love you Sam....would love to meet you One on One.

[@marti77k84]

Mine married me within a week .. then it went down hill after that .. I seen the red flags and everything you say is so spot on but mine has some Psychopathy bcuz he hears voices and he also beat me

[@B-Nia]

Schizofrenia! 👍👍

[@mikyclaude]

Ohhh my goood!! I try for more than 2 weekes to escape, i told him clearly 4 times that i want to leave, i used all my energy, i gave up of one of my 4 cats ( gave it to a new family after hard tries, all for her the litle poor soul wich was not welcomed here😔😢, none of my cats are) i even rented a nice house for me and my cats , i payed and aranged all already( all in secret, all in a hard way , barrowing money from family and friends) but i cant move on bcs i am threaten badly:((( last night it was a nightmare, i was hit violently, cursed, humiliated, he broke a glass with his own hand and was bad injured , a lot of blood and ....omg😢😢screams and yelling as in hell , i really thought i m gonna faint and fall down. And i had to clean all those while he was a rollacoster of moods, cries, begings and then screams again...Beg to me to stay few days more few days more omg😭😭 i am desperate and i want so badly to go , to step out !!! I will lose my rented house also if i dont move. I barely have the minimum of energy to walk just for a basic stuff in this house of moods and terrors. His mother intervene too , for me to stay😔😔😭😭she is nuts too." If he will ever do this then i promise you, i call the police, not you!" She said:(((( she doesnt care that i am in a horible situation here. I m kept here only to intervine betweem the two of them bcs they hate eachoter as mother and son. She s an alcoholic ( also was abused by her 2 husbands) and her son has a drug adiction for long..I am in this terible relation since 9 years. I leaved him many times but always came back as a stupid i was!!:((( but this time was , is worse than ever. As he knows, feel, see, that this time will be for good. Wich is true!! But now i m more trapped:((. Verbally abuse, menthally abuse, violent phisical one . ..every day more. All their issues , mother and son, all their screamings and dirty words ..on my shoulder. I HATE all. And me. And omg i m trapped and cant go. I fear for mylife too( cant explain in words what i saw, withness or hear) . I feel i lose my mind bcs powers anyway i dont have . ..Today i had to leave😔😢😢😢😢😢i already saw myself leaving, dreaming to sleep at ease on my own just. Bcs i lost my sleep here and i canot eat almost nothing since 4 days. Bcs i cant. My body refuse anything. I am as a zombie..omg what can be done more...😭

[@darlakowalski2248]

As I learn the internal processes the narcissist is going through, I am actually horrified that I married such a disturbed person who didnt show any signs I recognized. I am left with deep pity for him. How he's been trying to discard me for 17years and hasn't done it yet escapes me. Now we are both 78 yrs old. Do I just hang on until we die?

[@constadia4206]

Three years of furure faking, idealisations and isolation, then the discard phase which was excruciatingly long just to arrive at the discard point where, I chose to remove myself from the picture to save ky sanity. Final words I told him during his last narc rage tantrum, I am no longer living in your world because that's what I choose to do. He didnt like it that his object talked back

[@LHanna-gn3qw]

Thank you. Helpful advice. Strangely, I get along with male narcissists quite well, because my dad and I were like best buddies, but between female narcissists and me, it's like 🤺🌪💥🤯

[@mikyclaude]

I am afraid even to let these comments here or anywhere. I m so controled. All my steps are. It was a long heavy journey what i did with the rented house bcs of this control. But somehow i did it and yet i cant leave:( This is ..I dont see nothing further. Thats it

[@mayradm4308]

The youtube subtitles sometimes takes "narcissists" as "nazis"...

[@sonammothiwar359]

It is really an eye opener. I am here after my permanent discard. Thank you for letting us know that we are not responsible for our reaction and karma will speak one day. Will it continue with new supply after discarding and replacing old supply. Please reply sam.

[@masha5444]

8:10 So, a narcissist can't accept that he made a mistake but can accept that he's been deceived?

[@IrmaRoma68]

This resembles the recruitment of cults

[@co5mo]

i want to show this video to my ex... she would probably kill me 😊 hi sam 😊

[@nmontani]

So after they discard you they ghost you? How does ghosting fit into all this after you can feel the seperating and devaluing happening? As they are ripping your heart out.

[@samvaknin]

Watch the videos in the shared fantasy playlist.

[@OlympianVenus]

@Sam Vaknin can you do a video about Narcissism and Peter Pan Syndrome?

[@samvaknin]

Search the channel for "child".

[@narsisghe3958]

Is narcissist capable of having multiple shared fantasies with multiple intimate partners? Or it is only with one intimate partner? Thanks

[@samvaknin]

With one at a time.

[@narsisghe3958]

Thank you 😊

[@user-ek6jn6tg6h]

This is my brother . I’ve gone no contact . He literally interrogates you like a police officer . He twists everything into some crazy obsurd event that never happened. I caught him going into my mom’s phone with her pw (66 disabled) . I texted her a scripture . The next day he emails me and threatens me with the same exact bible scripture. They’re so stupid . I had to disconnect her phone and fly to another state . Then I seen another phone connected to her account .

[@Beleeber]

Could their extended gaze, following years of separation, imply a renewed fondness for you?

[@user-xu5yu7gq1p]

Is he aware that he is projecting himself on to you. Or does he actualy believe it to be true?

[@samvaknin]

He believes his own fantasies.

[@user-xu5yu7gq1p]

@@samvaknin does this also apply for BPD?

[@user-xu5yu7gq1p]

I dont understand how he believes his own fantasy while a big hoover tactic is atmitting everything he did wrong . Even the projection part.

[@pipopipo6477]

Is it possible that a BPD could experience very much what you describe also with partners who are not NPD? I’m asking because I’m afraid a BPD who’s watching this could think partners who’re not NPD are so.

[@samvaknin]

Yes.

[@mikyclaude]

I watch so many videos of profesor Vaknin . I watch everytime i have a bit of time bcs normally i cant bcs of his( the partner , ex in fact) continuosly mumbleling , talk and talk and talk, always want my atention , always stops me from read or do what i like. And when i catch a litle time ( if he is out, wich is very rare bcs he dont have a job) , i am stucked with his mother who calls me every minute for all the stupid silly stuff, making my head full of their, her nonsense. Only wants to help them with all is in this house. Every problem they have , i am called. Just bcs i am their intermediary person between :( i m tired. Very tired. Now i wait for him to comeback from i dont know where , just to have a conversation with me. Bullshit!:(((( I m out of time. Time pass and i must package and go. Even if i feel i barely can move. My body hurts ( fibromialgia) and so on..If i wouldnt had the litle souls( 3 cats) i would just walk away. But how? I cant . And is nobody to can help, friends( i dont have anyway) or family ( another storry here) ....i guess i will get stucked again and this thought ..😔 I am no words

[@David_Me825]

Do the same applies to BPD or they idealise/devalue you differently?

[@samvaknin]

Same. But for different reasons.

[@karlippo]

If the narc is a woman does she look for a substitute father figure to idealize and then discard in order to individualize? Or is it only this dymanic with a mother figure? Thank you

[@karlippo]

Or let me rephrase, is the individuation the narc m/f seeks to replay, only with a maternal figure?

[@samvaknin]

Mother. Watch the videos in the shared fantasy playlist.

[@travisblack5462]

So what happens when the narcissist finally abandons their partner? Do they just rinse and repeat with new partners?

[@samvaknin]

Watch the shared fantasy playlist.

[@friendsofadeadgirl2013]

Hilarious giggle. Devaluation is a regular habit. A technique he uses is obnoxious. I think my snapshot had a name. My script is often spoken aloud in the 3rd person “Why does she try to trick him?” When I’ve done no such thing or in fact the very opposite.

[@fenellajames4112]

Hi Sam, my covert narcissist ex is about to be charged with Coercion & Control. Is it helpful to the case to mention his abusive relationship with his mother who was a classic narcissist? They were both codependents until she died. After which my ex started drinking heavily and when narcissistically injured would do the quick drinking thing which enabled him to become psychopathic.

[@Natalie-qs2ot]

how do you tell if the person youre with is a narcissist and they are devaluing you, or if they are a rather "normal" person who just happens to have weak character, and is losing feelings for you? i find them a bit easy to confuse.

[@ruz4120]

I think a normal person who loses interest would disappear over time (with or without a conversation), and a narcissist would go back and forth many times devaluing you but then again giving some breadcrumbs (which also reduce over time), while acting like they are very nice person and trying to portray themselves as such, and “not understanding” where you are coming from if you are hurt. I guess a good test is also trying to have a conversation - a normal person who is not nice would maybe avoid it but ultimately they would say smth logical, whereas a conversation with a narcissist would always go in circles and make you feel like you are crazy (or you would have body symptoms such as anxiety and a weird gut feeling).

[@amandaherbert9664]

It will be all your fault. You will be so confused. Mine was a dark triad malignant, so an extreme example... It's taken time to identify less extreme cases. So i hear you.

[@amandaherbert9664]

Look for the rest of the things. Be careful to be correct.

[@antlures845]

Character doesn't just happen just as feelings don't just fall away. I hope this helps

[@privatez6967]

Sam, how are you re your health ? Haven't seen any videos shot in your new place, so wondering are you ok?

[@samvaknin]

I cannot travel to Israel owing to the situation. Both Ramat-Gan and Haifa have been targeted by Hamas rockets. Incoming flights are very patchy and far between.

[@joannepownall1213]

Why won't Google Translate Hebrew!! I want to know how to spell shajaneen.. 😂 Especially, shajaven (naughty)

[@mtarjme]

שובבים - shovavim, naughty ones ששנים - shoshanim

[@mtarjme]

@@FreeBrunoPowroznik thanks for adding. I forgot to put that.