Duskmourn Worries Me...

[@obadijahparks]

I was hoping for a bunch of strixhaven college students to go to an banned plane on a dare. This would have been a much better, more mysterious, story that fit the 80s horror better. You could have taken a break from planeswalkers, or even just kept the one they have now from strixhaven. They would be befitting of the role stereotypes.

[@deviousj5868]

That would be great.

[@lanterns_glow]

Lilliana they're just like "if you die I'm not exactly good at white's Ressurection"

[@philipliao4006]

WoTC should hire you

[@ryanbolson23]

I’m still hoping they did Strixhaven sister college where it’s the other 5 color pairs so I can fully commit to never using the ravnica names again 😈

[@ryanbolson23]

@@lanterns_glow Gideon found that out the hard way

[@Xyzzy999]

Probably my biggest issue with the set is how clean and crisp the survivors look. Supposedly its been years since the demon took over and yet everyone's clothes look store bought, their hairstyles are one point and the way the artstyle depicts their skin with zero bruises, scrapes, or scars its like these people just arrived from an 80's strip mall. Who is their barber? Who makes and maintains their clothes? Where does this new design of tech come from? If its a sort of a Mirrodin situation where people are being pulled here from other planes why do so many of them have the same 80's asthetic, where does it come from? It's like no thought was put into the design beyond, "the 80's were cool, lets do that." It's hard to get invested in the dynamic of scared surviors just scraping by when everyone looks like they're in perfect health, just chillin. Like you say in the video, hard to fear for them when they aren't afraid themselves. The monster side of the set looks super cool with some really neat designs (I really like the way the ghosts look when removes from the TVs) and honestly I love the concept, but every time I see a survivor my gut icks a little bit, like they just don't belong in the setting at all.

[@outdude]

Okay hear me out, create a 5 horde decks (one for each color) and one deck of doors. You flip doors that decide what color deck you’re going to draw from. Of course you activate the effect of the door you’re destroying. Then you make decks that have creatures from different planes and try to survive Duskmourn! Considering how power crept some of these cards are it makes it tougher if you use cards from original innistrad or zendikar.

[@PhileasLiebmann]

When I first saw the fresh outfits of the survivors and their immaculate electronics in the spoilers for Duskmourn (I don't follow the lore releases that closely) I actually had a whole theory that the twist of the set was going to be that the survivors all thought they'd been in the house for a couple of weeks to months at most, when actually it'd been centuries, because Valvagoth was keeping most of the plane's human inhabitants in stasis or something and only occasionally releasing people to feed on their fear, essentially to ration his food. Unfortunately that was just me putting more thought into the character design and lore of this set in five minutes than the entire team responsible for creating the whole thing did over the course of months, if not years.

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

Having a storyline about your invincible IP characters in an 80s haunted house horror setting seems like a terminal contradiction since we know they ain't going to kill anyone off.

[@lVideoWatcherl]

Absolutely this. No stakes to the Story. But when the major, multiverse-spanning Invasion of hostile, zealous biomachines barely affects anything in the Story, why should this non-factor of a cash-grab backdrop?

[@trihexa7096]

lol watch this is where they actually kill a character, although I highly doubt it

[@philbuttler3427]

They do kill characters off. Like wtf you talking about? They just killed all the Preators who were highly marketable

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

@@philbuttler3427 Those were villians in an arc all about finally defeating those villians for good. I would be very shocked if they kill off any of their heroes in this horror themed plane.

[@matthewcallus]

@@trihexa7096 I mean technically The Wanderer, Tyvar, and Zimone have all died. It may have been reversed but the writing was pretty brutal for Wanderer & Tyvar

[@JoelBurger]

So far the story itself has proven one thing to me, especially after Bloomburrow: I do not care about Magic's recurring characters and WotC's attempts to slowly form a New Avengers to take on the dragonstorm or whatever. Give me a story about the inhabitants of a plane; if a plane is unable to sustain a story like that, I do not care about the plane. And it's a shame, because the premise of Duskmourn could lead to a ton of interesting worldbuilding around what kind of communities would form within this sentient evil house. But instead we just get a bunch of mindless walking 80s horror references and the one guy there to exposit about the plane.

[@Pimpulus]

tbf mtg settings have always been stronger than the actual stories within the settings. and what ive read about the duskmourne setting so far and heard about the story fits right into that pattern

[@awrixeldohoda2857]

If you want to read a story about the inhabitants of Duskmourn, you can read the side story "Children of Carnival" which is exactly that. And to be honest, it is more interesting then the main stoty, I most deffinatelly recommend it.

[@deviousj5868]

That's what i thought WotC would do, make each set a self-contained story. I think that would be a better idea than trying to build a major story. That falls flat.

[@BREAKERisDEAD]

Im also pretty tired of planeswalkers and seeing the same 10 characters over and over again

[@Itachi45481]

I generally still like the characters hell I hated Nico and tyvar Nico due to having nothing and tyvar well the same and not getting a main character perspective now they are showing more which is cool that and the razorkin scenes in the story

[@gorntaron5156]

It doesn't help at all that the Survivors all have clothing that looks like it was just made brand new in all the art like it doesn't feel believably real, any regular person put into a situation like duskmorn special tech or not is not going to look immaculate all the time especially not with the monsters and whatnot constantly trying to kill and chase you down

[@cultiumera]

exactly my thoughts

[@timdrake8044]

In addition with that the tech, it comes off that instead of the plane pulling in unsuspecting victims, people are willingly going there like they knew about this plane built gadgets expressly to deal with this plane

[@Enja_Near]

That's actually explained. The house will manifest things to keep its victims from giving up alltogether, and maintain its population.

[@johnbrownlee5419]

Though I figure since the multiverse has endless variations of you, some of them would come through well equipped but also just suffering a coronary. So free gear.

[@charlesward9963]

crts and ghostbusters gear also just doesnt work asthetically in Duskmourn. Significant technological advancements like CRT-Screens and Ghostbuster tech should be visible in the surrounding environments. Capenna and Kaladesh works because their surroundings are on the same level of developement. (any time such an impact of technology isnt visible, it would imply that the tech was brought there form the outside which doesnt work with duskmourn bc there is no "outside the mansion") Kaladesh is quite literally an inventors fair of a plane, the entire place is full of new, creative machinery so of course someone is eventually gonna invent a train or car or other flying device. Capenna is an industrial city, without needing to know the precise history, you have skyscrapers, steam engines electricity etc etc. the cars fit their surroundings in design and theming. The entire plane of Duskmourn is a sprawling, victorian style mansion, giving the inhabitants crucifix-equivalents, dousing rods and voodoo dolls would make far more sense asthetically, since that is what the characters are surrounded by. If the Mansion was newer, maybe had the vibe of a renovated mansion from the 80s, the tech would fit, since the surroundings share a time-period.

[@valeriedure2341]

exactly! i think the tech would have worked better if it was poorly scraped-together junk that fell in from other planes. for instance, maybe a piece of a Kaladesh machine got pulled into the house and now a survivor has a flickering filigree flashlight

[@anastasiadukellis40]

The idea is that, before Valgavoth expanded the mansion to encompass the plane, the plane's scientific advancements were about the same as Earth's in 1980. The mansion WAS an old time mansion for them, likely built somewhere in the 1800s. When it swallowed the rest of the plane, most of the tech was destroyed in the process, but some remained. It's not like they built this 1980's referencing tech inside the house, they're cobbling together what they find that's usable. That being said, I do feel they could have depicted that part much better - the tech (and their clothes) all looks far too neat, unbroken, and perfectly constructed. I'd rather see that same tech in this setting with missing parts, obvious jerry-rigged replacement parts, weapons that don't look direct off a conveyor belt. That's my biggest issue with them.

[@thejunecooperative]

I thought the Mansion had been sucking people in from other planes using the Omenpaths.

[@PhileasLiebmann]

I like the idea of the mansion incorporating more modern technology into its architecture in some places tbh. Imo it would do a lot for the post-apocalyptic vibe the set is nominally attempting to go for. Like some regions of the house might be so old that the tech didn't exist yet or might've "grown" over locations on the plane that didn't have much tech to begin with, but as the house expanded the world around it advanced in technology and that tech was eventually incorporated into newer areas of the house as they began to cover civilisation. But yeah, the survivors definitely shouldn't have that sort of stuff or look the way they do. If the house has been around for as long as the set claims they should be looking more like Fallout raiders and any tech they have should be rare and tinkered together from scavenged and repurposed bits. Also the tech desperately needs some kind of explanation as to why it isn't just regular electronics, like how Kaladesh's tech all runs off of æther, so it still keeps a bit of the fantasy vibe at least. When I first saw the spoilers for Duskmourn, I actually kind of assumed that the twist was going to be that all the "survivors" thought they had been in the house for like a couple weeks at most, but actually Valgavoth had kept most of the plane's inhabitants in stasis or something like that for centuries and was simply "thawing out" a few people at a time to feed on their fear and that's why all their clothes and tech look fresh off the shelf.

[@mcbuckets2399]

You know something that would help with this "shallow world building"? Staying on a plane for more than one set. The sets don't need to be drafted together or even have mostly overlapping mechanics. By committing to a few sets on the same plane the creative minds will be forced to flesh out a world even more.

[@GodpraisethePALANTINE]

Just bring back block sets.

[@LycanDreams9159]

I definitely would love a bloom burrow second set that’s for sure lol.

[@shawncurtis8151]

Me too! I've never understood the reason to end the block system.

[@Sean.Cordes]

@@shawncurtis8151 they say the second or third blocks always sold worse than the first. But to be honest that seems like a WOTC problem more than a "consumers dont like blocks" problem.

[@Sean.Cordes]

@@LycanDreams9159 there are countless sets that would have been really well served by a second block in the last 5 years or whatever its been.

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

My issue with everyone in Duskmourn looking like a 80s character is that this plane is so dangerous that I assume everyone should be dressed in basic rags. Like how do they make any of this stuff?

[@Sunburnedhalo]

As the story goes on, it is implied that the house manifests it, lots of stuff is left behind by previous explorers, and some of it is created by pulling together miscellaneous materials found within the plane-sized House itself

[@jacobd1984]

@@SunburnedhaloSpecifically, if I recall correctly, the demon/house was providing people with various things to keep enough of them alive and not in such total despair that they just all gave up, in order to have a sustainable supply of victims.

[@sp1ky58]

@@jacobd1984 yeah but we all should agree it is still a stupid concept that a literal demon hellbent on farming fear would choose to create such goofy gadgets, furthermore, intentionally make the characters this OP.

[@fernandostar3507]

@@jacobd1984still a dumb concept, they could have done a completely different aesthetic. It works better if they had the aesthetic of ravnica, zendikar, innistrad, instead of this lame 80s aesthetic?

[@OlgaZuccati]

@@jacobd1984 if the demon is trying to make them fearful it should be giving them sticks and stones, there's no reason they should be getting ghostbusters level gizmos.

[@jozzyalthefool9273]

My biggest issue with Duskmourn Survivors and their tech is the fact that they do not look like they are scavengers who have been struggling to survive for a couple generations at the very least. Their clothes are waaaay too clean and undamaged and their technology is way too complex and looks nothing like something built from old scrap metal and whatnot.

[@aeldariambitions6334]

I agree, but I would go one step further - there's NOBODY from the original Duskmourn left (or maybe just the cultists?) The 'survivor' creatures should be people from other planes who got sucked in or intentionally entered, only to be unable to leave. Each card would have hints of who they once were, but bedraggled and broken. Kaladesh inventors searching for rare ingredients. Innistrad monster hunters hunting their quarry, only to become the hunted. Strixhaven students on a deadly dare (stolen from another comment). A Kamigawan who got too curious for his own good, or a kami trying to reach out to the tortured spirits in the mirrors. Etc etc etc. It would have made for some really interesting and diverse setups, especially if you have multiple planes of people in desperation.

[@skele1]

Dang, I was totally sold on Duskmourn as a classic D&D setting and then you revealed the 80’s inspiration.

[@danacoleman4007]

and now you like it even more?!

[@xolotltolox7626]

​​@@danacoleman4007i would prefer a second bloomburrow set

[@SeraSmiles]

The worst part of duskmourn's story, for me, is that the writer is great. She made 'children of the carnival' & it's actually really high quality magic fiction. I wish so heavily that they just let her focus on that instead of whatever the main story is for this pseudo block

[@danielsniff6405]

I think the 80s aesthetic is pretty lame, but I also think a lot of the monster designs we've seen are really cool and interesting. And, hot take, outside of the ghostbuster tech, I find the premise of the plane to be genuinely more interesting and creative than the other horror plane. I like Innistrad, but atleast to me the idea of a living, ever changing haunted house full of phobia monsters that has warped and consumed the entirety of the the planet is a more captivating idea than holloween monsters, the plane. Doesn't mean the execution will be better, though.

[@BaronVonCount]

Were WOTC to orient their contracted artists to try and go towards an "i have no mouth and I must scream" theme for the survivors rather than ghostbusters this would feel MUCH more horrifying

[@seanmagallanes1276]

So the demon created a mall and a radio shack as it expanded….truly frightening.

[@VerrouSuo]

i think part of the issue with the "lack of distance to reality" is that there's a number very good reasons why our current reality looks the way it does, and there's no good in-universe explanation as to why the corresponding fantasy world should have developed in that direction. in essence: high-top trainers look like high-top trainers because of brand mimicry among shoe companies producing stylized all-purpose products for the mass-market, modeled on converse and other brands. so, the natural question one might ask themselves when encountering a pair of high-top trainers in a new magic: the gathering setting is "why the heck, in a universe where a nigh-omnipotent demon has shifted the entire cosmos into a giant house of horrors, did anyone ever mass-produce all-purpose high-top trainers? where is the converse factory?" so, i think this is the root of why its so immersion-breaking to see these sorts of modern things in magic: the gathering. modern items require modern times to make sense. in the absence of modern times, these modern items seem to float around haphazardly for the sake of aesthetic instead of having a good reason to be there -- this is why duskmourn seems to cross a line where kaladesh doesnt: its easy to conceive of a world where the industrial revolution took a course that lead to it looking like kaladesh. its hard to conceive of a world where all of human history looked exactly the way it did up to 1980 and then stopped when a demon was imprisoned because... well, we dont have demons in our modern world. sure, it feels bad to have our escapism violated, but i would postulate that it feels just as bad to have our intelligence insulted.

[@lVideoWatcherl]

Brilliant comment

[@mistercleff8819]

I mean… this is explained. The shoes are from before the house took over. They lived in a almost suburbs time, I think almost Cold War civilization, just that instead of electricity they used demons to power everything. So, when the demon took over the world, he just used his magic to recreate everything. He NEEDS to give the survivors food, clothing and items of the sort for them to have some semblance of commodity and life because if they don’t, the fear they feel isn’t as extreme. Without safety they become jaded and unfeeling to terror

[@nicks4802]

You just explained why i think Sonic the hedgehog is dumb. He has HUGE feet, Who in that universe makes big red hedgehog shoes?! Should he not have paws? Why the long humanoid fingers..... Thank god he's wearing shoes because he has big ugly human feet just so he can wear dumb shoes....

[@lVideoWatcherl]

@@nicks4802 I mean, I believe there is a difference between the intended seriousness of mtg and Sonic character design... the target audience also differed pretty strictly for both, at least in the beginning I would think.

[@nicks4802]

@@lVideoWatcherl at least you understood what i was getting at lol Same shit, different fandom, but with how things are going they can easily cross over into eachother, All it takes is a UB product announcement.

[@Pinpoint3621]

The "ghostbusters-esque" art feels like a miss. Duskmourn feels like its inhabitants should be the hunted. Certainly, the central demon has full control over the utilities needed to make tech in the first place. Frankly, I was hoping for rags, and grime, a pitiful type of fear. Reduced to the stoneage with all the stories and even memories of an old world. We've had plentiful stories of reasonably balanced conflict. Give us the opposite, show us evil so powerful that it doesn't have to do anything remotely harmful to create terror. Show us good so complete that it overtakes, overwrites the very nature of its planeswalker visitors (creating an internal struggle).

[@skylorwilliams5036]

It still has to be PG enough for the kids. You’re thinking of PG-13 or R.

[@Pinpoint3621]

@skylorwilliams5036 Your point is certainly fair, but these products are rated +13 already. And I find it somewhat difficult to say that anything that I mentioned is less insidious than the themes of any of the phyrexia storylines.

[@PhileasLiebmann]

Ghostbusters is also literally anti-horror, it's a comedy the entire premise of which is "what if a horror movie scenario happened, but instead of being killed, you just anticlimactically called the professional ghost extermination service and they take care of it". Unless you are trying to subvert that premise by making the tech and such completely ineffective, trying to base a horror setting on that aesthetic is misguided on a fundamental level.

[@dan_mnght]

The random survivors not being bruised, hurt, bleeding and terrorized kills the horror angle fr fr

[@danacoleman4007]

fr

[@yoshiyoshi9496]

I’ve come to realize my biggest issue with the survivors is how clean they are, they can keep the tvs and the outfits, just PLEASE make them look like they ACTUALLY HAVE BEEN WITHIN THEIR SETTING for more than like TWO DAYS. It’s why I actually like og innistrad so much, everyone feels like they belong.

[@oshawhat87]

I agree that the survivors and their equipment are too well put together, if they looked more apocalyptic it wouldn't be as jarring to me. While I don't think a plane that is closer in setting to the present day is impossible, I think it takes a lot more to make it feel like a part of the multiverse and given this is the closest they've gotten I can understand why it hasn't gone as well. That being said, I can appreciate that Duskmourn is quite different and have been enjoying the stories we have gotten. Nice to have a decent amount of chapters (both main and side story ones) since Bloomburrow was apprently undeserving of them.

[@cultiumera]

for me, i dont think the CCTV's feel out of place but the gadgets and characters do and i think thats largely due to the backrooms-esc aesthetic the plane is going for, stuff like CCTV's as a source of horror fits in cuz it supports the general vibe of liminality and have an explanation as to why they are there, being that they appeared there just like the rest of the manor the same cannot be said about the survivors and they're gadgets cuz like where would they come from? if your in a large house of horror for your whole life where your constantly on the edge of discovery by smth terrible i dont exactly see large scale production and technology available to make stuff like that and if you live there you also wouldn't have the time to style your hair and clothes the way shown on the cards either, i think both the weapons and survivors would have greatly benefited from more of an "SCP-3008 survivor camp" aesthetic where clothes, weapons and barricades and made from the various furniture that can be found around the manor (EDIT: just got to the end of the vid and apparently its supposed to be that but it very obv isnt soooo point still stands i suppose). Alternatively it would have also been great to not have an aesthetic inherent to itself and instead the folks trapped would use all the aesthetics of other planes they got pulled in from (imagine someone with the dimir 3-plate pattern on one of their shoulders backstabbing some monster thats currently attacking an innistrad werewolf, that kinda thing, woulda also been funny to see monsters try to scare a stray phyrexian from the invasion and then the phyrexian scares it right back lol)

[@PeterBoggs]

Zoomers discovering the word "liminal" has been nothing but an unmitigated disaster.

[@cultiumera]

@@PeterBoggs how dare zoomers refer to things smh

[@PeterBoggs]

@@cultiumera Stop doing it wrong

[@TheAweDude1]

In regards to around 20:00 in, talking about how the survivors seem cocky and sure of themselves: Those examples are all of the creature's cards themselves. You cannot find any creature card that displays it's creature as weak and meek, unless that is the whole point like Norin the Wary. Even lowly 1/1 goblin cards look capable and dangerous, because they are capable and dangerous. You never see an ogre or goblin or phyrexian or demon or whatever being killed or even scared on there own card. As for me, it might just be my personal tastes in media, but I am completely fine with the idea that fantasy as a concept can include contemporary elements. For example, I am reading Mieruko-chan, which is about a Japanese highschooler in today's society who can suddenly see ghosts. These ghosts are terrifying, grotesque, frightening, and the contemporary technology and culture helps throw that in sharp relief. I don't look at Miko looking at her smartphone and go "Oh, a smartphone. I own a smartphone. I am now completely removed from the plight of Miko because I recognize a thing." I think "Oh god, is she going to see something scary in her phone? Imagine how scary it would be if something like that happened to you?" But even in more explicitly fantastical settings, the recognizable elements can help highlight the differences in the world. Like, even in Magic's past sets, there were recognizable elements. Even if it is just the idea of Teferi being a little shit in school with a literal whoopee cushion, or Ravnica as a plane evoking the idea of living in a crowded urban setting, the recognizable don't take you out of the setting. One of my absolute favourite mangas right now is A Centaur's Life, about a fantastical world that contains creatures like centaurs, frog people, demons, and satyrs. Also, it is set in a world very much like ours, just altered to fit the inhabitants. That doesn't make it any less fantastical to have a literal school of merfolk, or alien fungus that mind control people, or a race of anthropomorphic snake people that secretly control the world (although less than they actually would desire). The mundanities of the world in A Centaur's Life don't take me out, they make me speculate even more. How would most creatures being born with six limbs affect the world? How would horns get in the way, or augment, daily life? How would I go about making a space that can accommodate a typical bipedal (plus wings) human of today and one that is half horse? Also, as for originality, that's a laugh. Lots of Magic sets in the past have ripped off previous IP. Need I remind you of the set called Arabian Nights, based off of Arabian Nights? And even the Eldrazi, who I love just as much as most people, was basically just HP Lovecraft's elder gods, with Shadows over Innistrad really going all in on the Lovecraftian themes. Even Bloomborrow is just "Redwall the set", especially in terms of aesthetics. But, then again, I personally care more about the text on the cards than the art on the cards. I loved Outlaws of Thunder Junction because it was a great limited set to play. I loved Modern Horizons 3 because it was a great limited set, but I hate Modern Horizons 3 because it and all the other Modern Horizons sets wreak absolute havoc on Modern as a format. I like Bloomborrow because it is a very flexible drafting format, and presents some interesting constructed opportunities with the sheer number of supported tribes. I even like Foundations because the idea of certain cards like Wrath of God and Llanowar Elves being "evergreen" is ultimately healthy for the metagame. I disliked Ixalan not because of the messy story and theming, but because it was a painful set to draft. As for fixing the story, I will echo what pretty much everyone else is saying: Give us at least two sets a plane. The first one sets up the story and setting, while maybe introducing the conflict, and the second one shows the climax and aftermath. Yes, lots of three set planes had there duds (I'm looking at you Dark Ascension, Worldwake, and Mirrodin Besieged), but that would be solved by folding the problem middle set into the first and last ones.

[@bridgemeister6035]

The weapons and clothes of the survivors doesn't give the impression that they have been spending every day running and fighting against unimaginable horrors, they feel likes extras in a movie. Like Thunder Junction, WOTC are taking shortcuts in worldbuilding instead of figuring it out themselves.

[@darkmindaustin]

I wanted to comment on the CRT screen aesthetic issue you have. It isn't so much THEM, but the combination of them with the view of the survivors. Before the survivors started showing up in the cards you were previewing, I found the CRT screens less offensive, and more interesting. They added a strange dark ambience to some of the less hyper fantasy parts of the setting, and more an eerie addition that pushed towards a personal horror. Sure, part of my mind already knew it would be mentioned cause of the title of the video, but I will say it didn't at all take away from the setting. I honestly was more visually excited about this than I originally was about this set when reading or hearing about it. I haven't admittedly looked at the spoilers for the set, nor read the plane guide to anything since the end of the Time Spiral saga, since I hated everything to do with the Magic story after Apocalypse (minus Llorwyn. I loved that.) Once you showed the survivors, I physically cringed at the sight. It changed my whole view on the CRT screens, and some of the pseudo-modern aspects of the setting. I think if it was left to those bits (the CRTs) and not the survivors having absolutely Ghostbuster rip off items, it would have worked perfectly. If it was like, a single call back card to Ghostbusters, or a slasher flick nod, I could see it working. But that visceral blech I felt seeing the survivors ruined the set for me. For context, I am old enough to have seen beta maxes, VHS, and DVDs exist at the same time, and when cassettes were only barely on the out. Further Edit: Those alt-art cards.. hurt my soul. WHY GOD WHY!?

[@HimeDelia]

To me a lot of the tech in magic feels fine because its seems magical first and technological second. All the filligree in kaladesh was magically sculpted by mages. The mechs and lasers and holograms in kamigawa seemed like mages were in part casting a spell, only aided by their tech

[@danieldelaney1377]

I think mages are really rare on kaladdesh

[@PhileasLiebmann]

I don't think the Kaladesh filigree is sculpted by mages, but it is there because those shapes are the natural shapes in which æther flows, which is the thing that powers all the tech. So it's still tied into the setting.

[@ScadrianGhostblood]

I think that the main problem with duskmourn are the two main ideas fighting each other. If they made a plane that mainly focused on the house itself and on uncanny horror, we would have gotten way more imaginative worldbuilding and monster. Different rooms overlaying each other or impossibly large spaces could be way more interesting than this spooky halloween party house. What if we saw even more of the elements of the outside world that were forced to become a part of the house. Ancient druidic grove forced into becoming an in-house garden surrounded by animals and druids turned into statues. Monsters would be way more abstract and alien. If they focused on survivors and 80's horror movies we could have gotten a campy love letter to slashers, but the melancholic atmosphere that was already putted in to the house makes the survivors look even cheaper than they already are. Survivors break the atmosphere and horror, while the house sucks all the fun. If you want to see the idea of a house being the entire fantasy world, you should read Piranesi. It's not a horror, but it's very imaginative and one of the best fantasy books in recent years that isn't a part of some big series.

[@WingedSoda]

Those elements you describe wanting are described in the written storyline

[@ScadrianGhostblood]

​@@WingedSoda I meant more focused on them than it already is. I would say that even many of the monsters feel more like something those survivors would fight against in an 80's movie

[@klyffjohnson]

This is why I miss the multi-set block design. Even if they didn't want to do a 3 set block like the old days, you could have one set focusing on the house, and a second focused on the survivors like you suggested, with some set mechanics linking them together.

[@gusty7153]

i was legit thinking this was gonna be like the backrooms or something until i saw the characters

[@duncanwalden7867]

Here's my disconnect, as I haven't touched Magic in a hot minute. The story setup and setting, sweet. I love the concept. What doesn't make sense is that the survivors would have tech and trendy clothes if they've been survivors all their lives. What would make sense is cobbled together clothes, makeshift weapons, and dilapidated artifacts that have been handed down or pillaged from dead survivors. Stylized magic mirrors that act as TVs would work and tie into the setting more as the question becomes what powers the TVs? It could also be the focal point of a lot of the lore. The mirrors could trap ghosts, or let you peer into other parts of the house, but at a cost, as the demon controlling the house could just as easily use the mirrors to find victims. There could be designated safe rooms, with survivors resting until the house inevitable changes and forces them to seek shelter again. The problem with 80's horror is that it only lasts through the night. Where do the survivors find food? How can they have kids if they are in a constant state of danger? I'm more interested in finding out how the people are able to live through the universe's biggest haunted house for extended periods more than knowing every detail of the monsters. Leave mystery in for the monsters, not the mundane.

[@gusty7153]

to be fair gothic horror was more about certain unfortunate implications and not necessarily the mystery. hordes of zombies. vampire aristocracy. werewolf packs. mad scientists toying with forbidden knowledge. any mystery wasn't about what something was but WHO the thing use to be and anyone wanting to fight back had to already be a professional expert on supernatural things. at a point gothic horror stopped being scary as more modern horror came into being. from what i have been able to see, it's actually modern horror that focussed on the mystery of the unknown, not gothic horror. and also because lovecraftian horror did the same thing, it was allowed to merge with modern horror and stay relevant.

[@gusty7153]

now i think about it, the most memorable of the long running 80s horror franchises actually leaned more into horror comedy instead of straight horror after the first installment, since mystery is only effective once

[@dely9999]

10:00 that fact that pokemon did a better job than Wizards with this concept is truly something to think about... i mean Mimikyu came out on Sun and Moon and we don't know oficially what's under their disguises

[@olsongc8422]

Duskmourn seems like an awesome concept for a rogue like

[@thesmilyguyguy9799]

Yes

[@theatog]

i think the point that hits home for me is definitely the lack of fear element within the survivors. It's like the entire house is trying to scare you and the narrator is like "whassup...."

[@JadeRedglare]

It might sound like a "silly" counterpoint to the overexplaining of the monsters, but most of the set's audience won't read the Planeswalker's Guide before the prerelease, if at all. The mystery is there for most people, except for whoever truly goes looking for it.

[@sergez6172]

Ive been into magic on and off for 20 years (along with 40k and wow) but with kids and life etc i jump back in and out, but these cards really remind me of "unabridged" or something mtg set they were like joke cards or something, like thw IPs were there but in comical situations anyone remember what that was called around 2004-2008, but ive realized my favorite era art wise and lore wise was 8th-11th edition.... Mtg was also a good bit of fun when my partner at the time was pregnant we were pretty introverted and loved universe narrative like things but didn't like video games so we bought a core set box (2018) and it was great.... Mtg is so over looked its sad

[@Hoolaloo]

To be honest, seeing that title and thumbnail made my heart sink a little bit. I do really enjoy Magic despite the obvious corporate motivations behind some of the decision-making going on. That being said, I think you laid out your opinion very well and there's nothing wrong with your stance. I appreciate that this wasn't another totally cynical takedown of the hobby but it wasn't mindlessly glazing WoTC either. With so much content these days focusing on how everything is getting worse I appreciate that you still highlight the things you enjoy and i remain hopeful that WoTC will learn from each set they release and we'll reach that equilibrium that i believe is possible. Looking forward to a video when we return to Lorwyn next year!

[@hobez64]

No matter how good or bad Duskmourn executes its idea, there is one thing that I'll love it for I wanna run a Pathfinder campaign set in Duskmourn so bad you have no idea, this looks like SO MUCH FUN. Imagine taking some of the ideas we've been given and twisting them a bit. Maybe each mana section of the house is run by a different demon with different goals, but the demons are all still associated in the same cult leading to them being banished together? What if there are tiny sections of the plane the demon couldn't take over for whatever reason, leading to small courtyard like areas that either serve as areas the mcguffins are in, or the only areas that it is truly safe to long rest? Imagine the Omenpaths being phenomena only open for minutes at a time, and the party COULD go through them, but their spirits are shackled to Duskmourne, so if they don't make it back to the Omenpath before they close their body is permanently separated from their spirit? This kind of plane is the place that gets the creative juices in my brain flowing overtime

[@SRMC23]

Ironically this makes me hopefull one day we get a plane that is based on Earth during the two World Wars. I had an idea for that once, a plane of the multiverse whose signature is the lack of magic permeating the environment, there are no spellcasters because there is no mana to drawn from the surroundings. But the reason why the mana is gone isn't because the plane is devoid of it, instead, all the mana of the plane seeped early into the crust forming elementals and magical crystals, and much like Coal these have been the driver behind an industrial revolution, the more ancient and naturalistic societies actually used these magical minerals to call forth the elementals and used them for many things but the idea of a person being able to cast spells on their own is considered impossible to them. By extension the fact that mana never seeped into the environment meant that most creatures known on other planes like merfolks, demons, angels, elves, and the like are actually non-existant there, only humans, animals, constructs and elementals live on that plane.

[@danaroach29]

Great video. The point that really connected with me was the bit about Kaladesh. As you noted, Kaladesh was a pretty big departure from Magic's established tech level, etc. but the filigree style of the tech and lifts from India made for something that mostly meshed with the greater existing world of Magic. People actually seemed to consciously work to design the plane in a way that logically could exist in the previously established framework of Magic's overall idiomatic structure, and it really made it work. Vs. Duskmourn where the thought process doesn't seem to extend beyond "lol, mullets".

[@Shark_feet]

As someone who was born in the 2000s and didn’t grow up seeing costumes like that, those outfits don’t bother me nearly as much. The weapons and lack of fear from the survivors is still a disappointment though

[@opinionofmine3238]

Having read a number of articles on MTG set design in the past, I don't think Duskmourn started as a haunted house and had 80s horror thrown in - I'm fairly certain the core idea for Duskmourn was 80s horror and then the team tried to design a plane where they could put that. I'm betting at some point someone thought "hey haunted houses seem like they fit 80s horror, maybe we can use that" and nobody really questioned how you could keep the 80s aesthetic in that kind of environment until it was far too late. I also think part of the factors and trends that led to this is Magic's delving into Universes Beyond - Perhaps keeping a more original aesthetic just doesn't feel as important as clear references where you're giving half of your year's attention to products that aren't even actually tied to Magic's own IP.

[@uriel7395]

On the topic of horror and how it relies on the unknown, there's a great book I love that handles the reveal of information really well called Book of the Short Sun. There's a group of essentially vampires in the setting called the inhumi, and at the start of the book you don't know much about them other than that they feed on blood, they steal humans as livestock, can fly, and the neighboring planet in the solar system is inhabited entirely by them. They start off as pretty threatening and scary monsters, but as we learn more, rather than it just ruining the horror, the emotions you feel towards changes to pity. Maybe it's cause Book of the Short Sun isn't actually a horror story, and the goal of the inhumi isn't directly to cause terror, but I'm just reminded about how the reveals there added new layers to the monsters instead of just stripping the horror completely.

[@soarel325]

Gene Wolfe is the best

[@four-en-tee]

This is just the Backrooms (and House of Leaves, but mostly the Backrooms)

[@RageKage657]

For me it’s the “80’s” part of the set. Im tired of the 80’s. We’re all living through 80’s IPs still and our media is created by people influenced by the 80’s they grew up in. It’s too close to our time to make it feel like Magic to me. The 1920’s I get, it’s far enough away in our past that it seems like a whole different world. The inevitable “Roller blading, neon windbreaker and Walkman 90’s set” is going to kill me

[@otterfire4712]

The set could have worked if the survivors were wearing a mish mash of clothes from different planes. Thunder Junction would have been more interesting if there were natives. Then you could have this parallelism between the returning cast invading the plane and Phyrexians doing the same only recently. Bloomburrow is the only good set for this year

[@killjoy686]

With how much of a radical departure Duskmourn is from typical Magic I can understand having a negative reaction. But man, this set is so fucking in my wheelhouse. I literally don't really care much about the lore of planes but I have been all in on Duskmourn since reading the Plane's Walker guide and I have read every story they have released for this set. Reading about all the monsters and the ways that the survivors have to live in this frankly depressing house has been really fun for me. Horror should embrace the unknown, but horror should also be used to tell a good story. Sometimes to tell a good story you have to reveal more about what is going on. Using your Beastie example; they just released the side story going in depth about the lore of the Beasties and it is such a compelling and heartfelt narrative that works because it gives us great insight into Beastie culture. I really like learning the rules of the house and it's monsters. As a horror fan, especially of modern horror, I feel fear of the unknown honestly gets overrated and instead of being a guideline to help in storytelling it becomes a hard rule that can never be broken, and I disagree with that. If you have a good reveal is then keeping it shrouded completely in mystery is pointless. As the end of the day Magic is a card game and how good Duskmourn is will depend on the cards. Will the set introduce fun to play cards that are evocative and scary. It is hard to say with only a few cards shown. Once the full set is out I feel Duskmourn is going to be pretty beloved set, at least in terms of it's lore and worldbuilding. But I can also seeing it being one of those you either really love it or you despise it. Time will tell but for now if the actual cards are as good as the recent stories then Duskmourn is going to be siiiiick.

[@mategido]

Hoping for the best for the future sets, just got into magic

[@Shawn-fg5lw]

I definitely understand the apprehension to the admittedly excessive pastiche of the 80s, but I feel that it still works. Kamigawa is cyberpunk, Kaladesh is steampunk, why not have technopunk? I feel that there was a severe disconnect between the artists and the story team; the story seems to imply a more scavenged, cobbled-together technology that just got lost in translation. I'm still super excited for this set and I love the art and flavor of H.R. Geiger mixed with schlocky slashers

[@vampyboi438]

I guess Im young enough for the 80s elements to be far enough from my reality to be fantastical. But I feel like media in general is a bit oversaturated with 80s nostalgia, so I find it a little boring and I dont even get the benefit of nostalgia since I didnt live through those times

[@colestrawn4304]

I see your point, silver myr. On some level, i enjoyed the whole 80s horror bits, but i can't deny that rather than trying to give the survivors their own unique esthetic, they just copied the 80's horror trend. The honestly look like ghostbusters off of wish. If anything dead by daylight executed this concept better, before they started using star power as their main source of draw. Though I guess that's what happens when you fire all your storytellers and don't give the ones that remain enough time to fully flesh out the story their trying to tell in favor or pushing more product than even the fans want.

[@poenpotzu2865]

Personally i am not the biggest fan of the 80s fashion and loose pastiche of 80s film imagery. However I am glad for the people who enjoy these tropes and aesthetic. My brain just fears that Wizards did this to make a tie in with ghostbusters or another set of stranger things

[@nickstoneham5629]

I personally have no issue with the setting or theme be centered around the 80s or anything modern like that. I don't care if I see a TV, because the fact a ghost is lurking in it is enough to keep me distanced from reality to know this is still a fanstasy world. I do wish we could see more of how this world is affecting the survivors, and that we were following a mostly unique cast with maybe one or two returning characters. Instead, Duskmourne and Thunder Junction has us following a crew of pretty much all returning characters. Bloomburrow was nice because I don't think I saw a single character I knew in the set.

[@danielkubicek1323]

😮‍💨 Remember when we saw each new plane and MARVELED at how Magic can consistently make fresh and wonderous worlds that inspired awe and wonder? The haunted house plane sounds like it could have been the seed of an amazing world. The inability to shake off their coperate parasite masters and make something unique instead of lean on the super recognizable is what kept whatever this would have grown into from being withered and sad instead.

[@danacoleman4007]

yep. I've moved on. however, I'm finding it EXTREMELY fun to watch the dumpster fire from the outside!

[@Nerex7]

When it comes to the overexposure, WotC really didn't do their homework. As Lovecraft once put it "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is the fear of the unknown". Whenever a story leaves things open to our imagination is when the horror is at its peak because no one can write down what our mind conjures up while scared. I still really love the premise of this set and if I had the money, I'd probably spend way too much on it. As it stands now, it will be at least 1 of the commander decks but if I could, I'd probably buy each bundle.

[@siukong]

To play devil's advocate: maybe they did know what they're doing if we factor in the full demographics of how a set typically gets consumed. Unlike the Vorthoses who tend to dive in deep, the average MTG player doesn't watch lore videos or go online to read the background info in the Planeswalker's Guides articles. Almost the entirety of their knowledge of the plane is going to come from the design and flavor text of the cards themselves, and maybe some extra tidbits here and there like a summary paragraph/blurb in their bundle/prerelease kit, or some idle speculation they overhear other players chatting about. So that sense of mystery/the unknown could still be effectively preserved for the majority of people who experience the set.

[@Ashen-Crow]

Ngl, I couldn't care less about the escapism point, yet, still Duskmourn crosses the line HARD for me. The 80's aesthetic is already so based on propaganda and vapid consumerism, the best media uses it to ponder about it and reavaluate these aspects, but many, many more just use it as a selling point and nostalgia bait, unfortunately it looks like WOTC chose the latter.

[@jbenhaim5751]

So true. Ever since its conception in the late 80s, the world’s first collectible trading card game hasn’t had anything to do with consumerism.

[@Ashen-Crow]

@@jbenhaim5751 it's not because they're a greedy ass company that they gotta do a set where the union leader is a literal dragon that sacrifices their people for fun, oh wait they already did that.

[@Thefloppysheep]

I think I have a take in support of kamigawa and kaladesh but not for duskmourn. The tech also fits and has its purpose in the world. Kaladesh has a mystical power source of aether. The tech in kamigawa are tied to the planes heavy spirit themes. So far duskmourns tech and real world references are for what, it comes across as 80s reference for reference sake not well built world building.

[@binch6291]

Even in the case of New Capenna, the setting was contrived around a ruling class of crime syndicates and an inescapable/ubiquitous urban environment. The technology doesn’t fit into the lore of the plane nearly as much, but the background of the plane fits squarely into the genre space of classic noir.

[@FriendofOnas]

Feels like the fear industrial complex to me. Duskmourn is like monsters except the survivors fear is being used to generate plastic tools in a parasitic attempt by the plane to extend the life of the survivors, the same way the monsters hide to amplify the fear in children their presence. I like the idea that this is the MTG equivalent to h*ll and the survivors are people who have cheated at the game.

[@genghiscrom4255]

All of this energy sunk into world building only for it represented in game play in the most hamfisted ways. "I 'scare' your creature by targeting it, it doesn't untap..." "I remove two static counters from my vision box (not a tv) & I put two 1/1 spirits into play..." or my favorite trend of late, "tap, since yer opponent is 'frightened' (has less than half of their starting life), perform an overly convoluted loot/impulse draw, activate only as a sorcery & only once per turn"

[@kronomos_4411]

Too early to have seen all of it but FINALLY someone says it. (be back in ~30)

[@kronomos_4411]

Good video, I agree. I think it's also a sign of WOTC simply not being able to afford more interesting settings anymore. Those are harder to develop than a literal world of hats.

[@fluffy14sweet]

I think your concerns are well explained and I can't help you with any dissonance you might feel with this set. That being said, the tone of the video sounds like you've been working on this script for a while. It sounds like you started writing this as soon as the announcement happened, and we got drip fed our first previews for this set. It sounds like you weren't able to read and dissect the canon story for the plane because of the simple reason it just wasn't released yet. Currently four story chapters and three side stories in to Duskmourne and I'm having a blast. I'm not saying that the corporate cynicism doesn't exist, but the artists tasked with exploring this relatively derivative concept are doing a above average job with what they have been given. I would love to see if your criticisms for this set hold true after the full set and the rest of the story are revealed.

[@telefeeb1]

The complaint about the spoiling of monsters nature reminds me of what was good about shadows over innistrad and how it absolutely went out of its way to make sure you knew that something was wrong with the already horrific plane and that you would have to work to know what it was.

[@glumdrop4672]

I don't really expect it to be 'scary', if only because it's hard to make a card game feel scary, but I do expect it to be fun and am willing to roll with it. This is the reason I rarely read the background material, it's much more fun to try to piece the story together as the cards themselves are revealed

[@lanterns_glow]

Now if the screens were magic holograms or crystals, it would work for me. It reminds me of a Plane of Torment from Ravenloft, or The Dungeon of Darkest Dungeon. Edit: Also on second thought, a Strixhaven student, a Kaldheim barbarian, a Kaladesh prodigy, a Theros Satyr, a New Capenna courier, and a Bloomburrow fox would all make a better cast- it's literally a collection of people from other planes, as this plane sucks things in, and you could have then all fill a specific stereotype (The Jock, The Pretty Girl, The Nerd, The Innocent One, The Final Girl, The Mascot). Kaladesh kid could scrap together things from the stuff being gradually sucked into the manor and that's how we get weird magitech that Somehow Works. In the end the Final Girl (or just Final Survivor) awakens a Spark after defeating/overcoming the demon in the basement. That would make an excellent story.

[@aeldariambitions6334]

You're absolutely right, and I think it would have been an awesome set to explore if that was the case. Use the tropes but play off them in a unique way; and keep the tension by having nobody know what's going on!

[@TekharthaMondatta]

I'll argue the "horror" aspect doesn't work without the context of "80's aesthetic" because then the monsters become just generic creatures, barely any different from existing monsters like Umbris or Zaxara or Ulamog, or anything found on Innistrad, Ravnica or Ikoria. Making it contemporary in design is necessary to make the design stand out, without it there's nothing unique, and no era of horror has a more iconic look and feel than the 80's. I can't excuse the worldbuilding bits that basically spoil the surprise, but I can excuse the visuals because it's new. Magic players don't know what they want and are afraid of new things, and this "it doesn't look like Magic!" argument is tired.

[@rafaelshavalia2412]

L

[@eloidasarmi6815]

Ah, yes, another everywhere legal unset. We loved the last two so much...

[@GozMaster]

Such a great video, I will say the stories, at least the set up , has been VERY riveting, but as I'm reading the PW's /Heroes has been ... a miss for the FULL horror they could have embraced, but, good enough that I'm eager to see more 3rd party writers, and content creators to take and build from. Thanks as always for the excellent content.

[@deviousj5868]

So Duskmorn is just Stranger Things season 4 gone wrong.

[@Gamemaster6400]

I find it interesting how much people have had an issue with the 80s aesthetic, I totally agree that everything should look more breat up, have less gear, and be more scared but i get the idea that the demon incharge of the plane needs survivers to be around so they can feed off of their fear so it would provide clothes/equipment. I mean it spread its house over the entire planet so it can clearly create things from nothing

[@AntonioHachi]

I guess im weird in the fact that im super into duskmourn. From the story we've got it sounds rightfully terrifying. And i actually appreciate the campiness of the cards themselves. I think the siliness helps the feeling of ganeplay

[@michaelmunsey5660]

I heard that Kharlov Manor was originally supposed to be set on New Capenna but that set didn’t sell very well. Then WotC retooled the set for Ravnica, a far more popular plane.

[@genehetzel2036]

I love Art Deco. That set sucked.

[@markusrows1096]

I think the aesthetic is dope, but I can see if one thinks it is tacky.

[@miguelramos6059]

The worse part for me is that everything is "too clean", you are telling me that a group of survivors in a world where everything and anything tries to kill you all at once has time to get "matching outfits"(god knows from where) and create perfectly functional ghost-hunting devices, not to mention they don't look in anyway tired, malnourished and I don't know... SCARED? Kills the potential that this, as you said, very promising concept could have.

[@sayitdd]

3:09 he needs a cable tv, and some drama reality shows

[@krismarshall3803]

Personally I'm just not a fan of how uncanny-realistic some of the human/elve characters have been getting. Like it irks me how a huge number of characters (this goes ways back too) end up looking like they should just be in like "From Dusk Til Dawn" or whatever, with how realistic-but-artificial they all look. That and literally Thunder Junction was a set with characters & Planeswalkers taking a vacation in cosplay....... no story AT ALL. Bloomburrow "Kinda" had something going on story-wise but the furry-planeswalkers and me not being really into the animal aesthetic kind of made it a pass to me.

[@cleanaccount9991]

I think one of the things magic needs to do is release sets built around each color. We had sets designed to be color-skewed, but simply having sets that each outline the colors and all the things they do and represent (both in gameplay and lore) might not be a bad idea, returning to a simpler premise might make both design space, worldbuilding, and story far more solid than trying to either by “unique” or “popular” with heavily stylized and gimmicky new sets.

[@astroastroastro5741]

take away the 80's aesthetic, duskmourn is a cool plane with interestion world building. take away the plane from the 80's aestetic, you have extras from stranger things. ive been disconected from magic's story since march of the machine but duskmourn is the nail in the coffin. i miss new phyrexia so much

[@christina.morris]

Between the 80s aesthetics and the handful of card names we've seen (particularly those Maro revealed on his blog a day or two ago), I'm completely checked out for Duskmourn like I was for Karlov Manor and Outlaw Junction. At least Bloomburrow was good, right?

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

Bloomburrow was ripping off Redwall but it at least felt like a plane that made sense where people lived. Duskmourn makes sense less the more they explain it and the haunted murder house and 80s aesthetic materialism clash with one another. Why are there cheerleaders and goth chicks in a realm without civilization and where literally everything is trying to kill you?

[@mooredaxon]

I figured that Outlaws would be the last set i buy because i actually kinda enjoyed the idea, and i didn't have any problems with it (i stopped reading the actual stories after March of the Machine but if you ignore them the cards get better). I wasn't too thrilled by Duskmourn, but after learning about all the set up, just for the card art to flop, it really hits that much harder.

[@rodolfolazo7638]

I am not from the US. I was not alive during the 80s. I am aware 80's nostlagia was a thing, but my only references for that cultural setting are comical plotlines from Netflix shows, specifically that one Inside Job episode and the Wanda storyline in Bojack Horseman (no, I did not watch Stranger Things nor do I intend to). The example of the man looking at shattered mirror had me thinking "I genuinely did not know that is supposed to be an 80s aesthetic".

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

They should have made Duskmourn two different planes. One can be a haunted house dimension populated with demons born from relatable and universal human fears. The other a more lighthearted 80s version of what we got with Capenna. A super advanced city-plane with 80s tech and aesthetics without going full cyberpunk. Made a fantastical element like Stranger Thing Upside interdimensional monsters.

[@Sleeper_6875]

for me duskmorne’s 80s stuff clearly undercuts its otherwise great creature and world design. Some of that art is amazing. I am not so optimistic that the space opera or race sets in the future will have any genuinely great parts to their design

[@thomashelmka6438]

I love MTG art, The art on the cards is what got me to play. I still like playing cards based on the art. However the past few sets have felt "thin", you can almost feel the lack of planning, care and love that went into some of the sets of the past. I can easily imagine the corporate office telling the planners to "HURRY UP-GET THE PRODUCT OUT THERE! PROFITS!!!!"

[@zagumemes]

32:54 well it can fit in infect, nice card

[@MagusFlorren]

I really respect these takes you have on this plane. You’re very good at articulating complex feelings towards a topic and it’s really relatable.

[@vindicator0984]

I was hoping that Duskmourn would be more like Amnesia: The Dark Descent or Silent Hill in terms of it's horror. More on the gothic, eldritch, and psychological side of Horror. I'm fairly new the the MTG scene but even with my year of experience about MTG i've noticed a trend towards modern pop stuff being injected into the art. Like I get what they are trying to do with Duskmourn, but it feels to Cabin in the Woods-ish or like Dead by Daylight but not always in a good way. It's like they choose horror as the theme for this set but it feels like they're to embarrassed to take it seriously, so they make these gaudy choices. Like the clunky technology and over explaining all the interesting horror elements. Like it wants to be funny with the clunky tech, and the neon green screens, and the 80's fashion, while also trying to be creepy with the gothic architecture, and the morbid imagery of the monsters. It feels like they want their cake and to eat it too I guess. It just doesn't mix. The tone is clashing heavily and it's really hard to tell if they meant for it to clash or if its a product of them having to force relevancy with this pop-horror type aesthetic, where it has to be kinda ironic and roll it's eyes at itself.

[@flantos23]

"magical the backrooms" was probably enough to sell a set. tieing such a setting to a specific period of history is baffling to me.

[@11epicnoob]

Let's list all the stereotypical horror things in Duskmourn and even some media! Aliens: Fear of Abduction, Unidentified Hovership Saw: Let's Play a Game, Lord of Pain (this one is an assumption) Terraria: Abhorrent Oculus Any movie involving murderous toys: Arabella (Arabella, Abandoned Doll), Attack-in-the-Box, Friendly Teddy, Clockwork Percussionist, Patched Plaything, Piggy Bank, Ragged Plaything, Marvin (Marvin, Murderous Mimic), Living Phone, Giggling Skitterspike, Splitskin Doll...

[@NeonThoughtBox]

Ahh, yes. The enshittification of everything. Bloomburrow is probably the last good set for a while.

[@surfinggarchomp2820]

this is not what enshittification is

[@skulfate]

I honestly don't mind the more modern aesthetic by itself, sure tonal issues with the clothing and machinery of the set aside. I think the mundane can be made fantastical if you let it, a great example is the unsleeping city from dimension 20. You can absolutely take modern real world elements that realistically in an entire multiverse are bound to show up at one point or another and make them feel unique/new. Personally I think using elements of the house itself for the main components of the tech and unfamiliar interplanar tech fallen through to power it amidst this demons total control would be a great way to bridge that sort of gap. Think something like an old cathode television set with rotten wood cut to sharp corners, stood on legs of bone or repurposed rusted curtain rods around a screen of shifting stained glass shards powered by who knows what that fell though just visible through the picture. I think this set struggled less because of aesthetic or giving it all away, but by removing a lot of stakes in how they treat the human element of this horror story. Even dire horror movies can have grandiose moments, but it almost always comes with either sacrifice or some kind of last ditch effort. I think if the tech and even the survivors embodied more of that do or die attitude in their respective art it would likely only serve to fit the tone of the set a little better. Tldr; bravado and mundane in horror don't make it bad just like this set, it really did just take an inspired concept and burned all the effort on marketing instead of really letting the concept come into its own.

[@faustous_mtg]

Just discovered the channel. For a first time viewer this was a terrific video. Hate to say it, but I agree with you on everything. Was looking forward to Duskmourn so much that I practically ignored the Bloomburrow release, and now I'm starting to feel hesitant about Duskmourn. Really hating not being able to get excited about an upcoming set and keep that excitement going up to release. Thanks for a great video. Looking forward to more from you.

[@noraaron736]

i feel like if they’d made the 80’s ghost buster looking tech a bit more duct taped together or at the very least less pristine it could’ve helped with the “people trying their best to survive” angle, if the 80s styled clothes were maybe more ripped and dirty, less random screens, maybe it would fit better

[@zackthorn5043]

I think one positive about Duskmourn having the style for survivors that it does is that it seems like it would be an easy and accessible style for people who want to start cosplaying Magic characters since the clothes would be easy to get and alter and the tech looking not too hard to make out of crafting supplies. Yeah it might not be as pleasing as some of the other looks you can go for, but easy starting points for people wanting to dress up for a con is nice to have.

[@yurisei6732]

MTG has shifted from "narrative consumption" to "database consumption". The job of an MTG set is no longer to be enjoyed as a single cohesive story, but to present the audience with elements from the cultural database. The way this tends to work in western properties is the "I recognise that icon" effect; The piece of media presents you with a reference to something you recognise, and you get the good feeling of recognising it. This is why Karlov Manor was loaded with pop culture references, why Thunder Junction was loaded with known MTG characters, and why Duskmourn has a diesel-powered chainsaw.

[@mantidream8179]

This set seemed great on paper, but ultimately it feels really lazy. I was imagining something more akin to the 'infinite Ikea' from SCP, an endless and dangerous building where people band together, form communities, and stuggle to survive in an unusual environment. Sadly, it does not appear WotC is going that direction...

[@goodtaste2185]

It is just going to be the Magic equivalent of Dead by Daylight. Commanders will be labeled as "survivors" based on classic tropes or "unalivers" based on slashers and creatures. I hope they can stick the landing but I think I just miss classic Innistrad.

[@Zeromus5555]

TVs and weird poltergeist stuff feels really out of place. Magic has been losing its identity since Universes Beyond.

[@Goldstarknight]

18:58 I'm on TV! Hope the glitch ghosts don't catch me! :O Jokes aside, one new wrinkle that the Duskmourn story has added so far, is that the rules of the plane and monsters are constantly in flux to keep the survivors from getting too comfortable and generate a fresh supply of new fear. In that way the decision to share so much precise information about the monsters in the world guide seems even more puzzling. A thought that occurred to me while watching this video: in horror media the protagonists are usually entering the house as explorers trying to uncover some mysterious past. They are entering a space that is haunted not only by actual ghosts, but also the past itself that clings to the every aspect of the environment. In Duskmourn we are dealing with an inversion of this dynamic. It is not the people from the outside entering/invading the haunted space, but the haunted space invading their shared reality and forcing itself upon them. The only exception is the investigation squad in the main story. To some extent we see something like this on a metaphorical level (the protagonist of a horror story has escaped, but the horror still haunts them mentally), but I don't think I've seen something like this. But then again, I don't consume a lot of horror media. I'm not sure, what to make of this observation yet, but maybe someone finds it helpful, so I'll leave it here. :)

[@andrewostman3135]

Full disclosure, I gave up magic the Gathering in 2019 to play flesh and blood. A game that I'm still playing and enjoy greatly. So the first half of your video with the themes and the horror and the backstory actually sounded really cool and I was on board with it. Seriously. The part about the heroes in the '80s and there's another side note. I'm old enough to remember the '80s. Just just destroyed that ambiance it's seriously doesn't look like magic with cathode ray tube TVs or with essentially proton packs

[@maximedumoussaud9042]

Duskmourn, in its setting, is kind of reminding me of Remnant: From the Ashes, which blended dark fantasy in a 1960s setting, with survivors clinging to what was left of technology not because of aesthetism, but because it gave them an edge. I think it would have been interesting to take this approach to Duskmourn, with the House stuck in a creepy gothic/dark fan aesthetic that the survivors had to contend with. Tbh, the pet peeve I have had since Ixalan 1 was the increasingly absurd justifications WotC were finding not to include guns "because it's not fantasy". It was Okay-ish for Ixalan despite the pirates, and Kaladesh and Kamigawa could go without because of their inspirations... But New Capenna and its gangsters going pew pew and whatever Thunder Junction was doing were just egregious. Having an 80s US suburbia post-apocalyptic nightmare/slasher with plasma guns made from appliances is worse for me than just having survivors waving AKs with body-horror magical bits taped and wired on them to make them useful against ghosts. I dunno, Duskmourn lore feels like Event Horizon meets Stalker, but its style feels like a Disney ride a bunch a planeswalkers hopped in.

[@Iseladore]

I liked phyrexians back when they were scary remnants of ancient war machines. When they Phyrexianized Mirrodin, I quit collecting them. The monster was shown, and I was told how to defeat it. I too was very disappointed with MoM. I liked the first Ravnica block; when it wasn't fully formed, more primordial, where the clash of art direction came to mean there was something new down every alley. I also kindof liked Karlov Manor, it was passable; but revealing the murderer in a short story before the set was even out? That was the real crime. I liked Kaladesh because it took its concept and ran with it - every expression of that concept was taken far enough that it made sense. I worried for Neon Dynasty because of the cyberpunk, but they did the same thing there as in Kaladesh: commit to it well enough that it *has* to be this way. Duskmourn doesn't commit to its inherently cool plane concept. Duskmourn is a gimmick. One thing that clicked into place for me watching your vid was an almost throwaway comment about items being mass-produced angular plastic. Where would survivors get the tech to machine their gear this way? Their clothing? Why are they all clean? There must be a hold-out somewhere with factories, running water, and a standard of living. This is such an obvious question to me that it seems like they did the same thing as in Thunder Junction - not look at the premise too hard and not ask the conceptually sound questions. Not take a step back and literally ask 'but how does this all work' the same way they did with Kaladesh and NEO. It's not about CRT TV's or their kit being too recent in memory for it to age into fantasy - it's about Thinking Things Through. There is no concept beyond 'what if magic, but 80'$ horror'. They just tried to School of Cool it, and it failed. Miserably. I'm skipping this set. Maybe collect some cool full arts of house lands. Maybe quit magic altogether.

[@rosebelmahjoubi1932]

the thing about explaining everything about the monsters, removing the scary part essentialy reminds of the Karlov Manor trailer, where they tell you who done it in the introduction video

[@aarongo888]

I'm honestly interested on your thoughts after you read the Duskmourne story. Its honestly one of the best ones in recent memory. The world building so far has actually been fantastic