Simon Jordan & Spencer Oliver discuss Imane Khelif & Lin Yu Ting with Dr Tommy Lundberg | talkSPORT

[@dilochetty9332]

only fair way is the get the rules amended, with proper laws in place, then you test all female athletes..

[@ALGERIEECONOMIE]

The fair way is to wait for the facts to surface, there is court case on the way

[@9395gb]

They were doing that and stopped in 2020. You wanna know why? Lgbtq activists working at the IOC said genetic testing was discriminatory.

[@ALGERIEECONOMIE]

@@9395gb Transgender and homosexuality is illegal and punishable by law in Algeria So these problems are in your countries not in Khelif's country Algeria

[@9395gb]

@ALGERIEECONOMIE in Algeria Khelif was wrongfully assigned as a female at birth because he has underdeveloped male gentalia. But he is a biological man. He's from a poor part of the country and the healthcare there is not good.

[@dilochetty9332]

@@9395gb what rubbishh.. maybe that happened to u

[@michaelscott7754]

Spencer is completely off here. They are biologically men but likely miss assigned the gender female due to the DSD.

[@tommysoder1387]

And he also says that the IOC tested her and that her hormone levels were now back to normal. None of that is true. They don’t care for hormone levels and never tested her. He’s so emotionally driven here that he can’t take the information in.

[@9395gb]

​@@tommysoder1387He must be dating Imane Khelif.

[@janewilliams5818]

You would think he would of done better research before chipping in with incorrect facts!

[@TfortLo-q8m]

Why is Spencer Oliver arguing about science with a Doctor? 😂 Could Spencer pass the 11+ now? Let's be honest he very likely wouldn't get 50% 😂

[@JohnFisherChoir]

I don’t think he was disputing the science, he was saying that just because you got XY chromosome doesn’t mean you are male in the relevant sense, regardless of how biologists define the term.

[@3Overhaus]

​@@JohnFisherChoirBut XY chromosomes produce male levels of testosterone in your body. That's an advantage XX(women) will never have. Therefore XY "women" shouldn't be allowed compete

[@hupra72]

Punch drunk!

[@jamesprynne1422]

@@JohnFisherChoiryes it actually does, women only have XX CHROMOSOMES theresfore it has a Y chromosome. It’s a man!

[@9395gb]

​@JohnFisherChoir Spence is not a doctor. He has zero clue what he is talking about.

[@taaniadyzel9756]

It's not complicated at all. This is disgusting

[@MyNameIsJeff9074]

She has a vagina, your lack of finding out the facts first before jumping on a bandwagon is disgusting

[@avfc1985]

The world is changing so fast so quickly that nobody can keep up. Scary times!

[@raydology]

I'd be surprised what isn't known to the public 😂

[@MrRubydav1879]

They need to take a gender chromosome test to see what gender they are to be fair and safe

[@kevinb9830]

It's not complicated - he was banned from boxing for a reason.

[@752KK]

She not he

[@kevinb9830]

@@752KK I stand by my XY based classification.

[@752KK]

@@kevinb9830 how did you know she has xy

[@kevinb9830]

@@752KK I have eyes.

[@haiyingkong8227]

@@752KK he not she. Insisting "she" is asking me to believe emperor cloth!

[@snexputana]

Jesus I knew spence was dim but this takes the biscuit. I now believe his brain is controlled by a hamster on a wheel

[@lemonsqueezer21990]

😂

[@raydology]

😂

[@gg7814]

Everything spencer said was false and this shows how people like him think and behave. Won’t even listen to a doctor

[@keithpedder4369]

TBH people are scared of making a decision on stuff like this. Spencer needs to keep quiet

[@obzurb5580]

People please don't stay quiet .

[@author4you443]

The guy with the beard just keeps saying "they're women" they're girls, then the expert explains the DSD anomaly, again Oliver says "yeah, but they're women" 😂

[@GlutenEruption]

They have female bodies, female reproductive systems, female hormones, female characteristics, they were born and raised female and have always identified as female. #1 the entire POINT of sports is to demonstrate who has the biggest genetic advantage. Michael phelps has freakishly long arms and double jointed ankles that gave him a MASSIVE advantage over other swimmers, Usain Bolt has ridiculously long legs, way more red blood cells, and more efficient mitochondria than everyone else, the list goes on and on, and those genetic abnormalities gave them a MUCH bigger advantage than any of the (entirely unproven/hypothetical) claims against Kalif, yet nobody even considered banning them for the genes they were born with giving an unfair advantage. And #2 people are acting like she's some unstoppable beast, but a) her record clearly demonstrates she's not and she's been soundly beaten by other women boxers on many occasions, and b) anyone familiar with boxing who watched her bouts can plainly see she's extremely well matched against her other competitors in terms of strength, agility, and reaction, and only won due to superior technical skill which has absolutely nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with training and hard work.

[@lyaro2000]

They can give birth, can a man give birth?

[@tommysoder1387]

@@GlutenEruptionYou’re wrong. The male advantage of going through puberty is about 10-50% depending on the sport. Michael Phelps advantage was far from that. It is correct however that we search for the best talents genetically in sports. But going through male puberty isn’t a talent anyone can compete with in women’s sports. Id it were, then we wouldn’t have the separation between men and women in sports as we have. Now in this case, we don’t have definitive answers on Khalifs condition, but if it is as Tommy says it might be, then her advantage is ridiculously large. And just because she just barely wins some games doesn’t matter. That could just mean she wouldn’t be a top male athlete, maybe just an average.

[@GlutenEruption]

@@lyaro2000it's not worth the headache. Prejudice doesn't respond to logic or reason. It's like trying to teach Euclidean geometry to an extra dumb wall.

[@author4you443]

@@lyaro2000 If Khleif has internal child making organs, and can give birth to a baby, then she's a woman, >>> but that seems very unlikely.

[@thedude3288]

pretty dissapointing for simon to jump on this hype train for sake of his ideology and not state the facts. and the fact is there is ZERO evidence for any of this, the IBA has provided exactly NIL to back up any of their claims. good on the doctor for reminding simon and the audience that the facts are unknown, he does say repeatedly "we don't know exactly whats going on" and hedges his answers with "if" etc.

[@jamesprynne1422]

Mate it’s pretty simple. Women have XX chromosomes only, and men can only have XY chromosomes. If it has Y chromosome which it does. ITS A MAN

[@user-iz9co4qf6z]

Why won't she take a test and publish the results then?

[@theoliverdavids]

The IBA have absolutely no reason to lie. Of what benefit to them would it be banning two XX chromosome fighters from fighting women? They clearly have XY chromosomes and thats why the fighters didnt appeal the decision and why they havent come out and done another test (and made the results public) to prove they are female. Its common sense and they clearly do have XY chromosomes.

[@GlutenEruption]

@@user-iz9co4qf6z why has the IBA repeatedly refused to release the test she already supposedly took or offer any proof whatsoever?

[@user-iz9co4qf6z]

@@GlutenEruption apparently it's about confidentiality, which you would expect from your own doctor.

[@7th.trumpet]

A wise old man once said...."If there's an Apple, there's a banana !".

[@DavidHalpin-ye9yq]

Why not just do another test and end the debate

[@9395gb]

Why do you think they don't want to? Isn't it obvious they are running from those tests for a reason.

[@wajidhussain5305]

This is getting more coverage than the election 😂

[@1282000sb]

If you're talking about the situation between the IBA and Ms Khelif you can't avoid talking about thd whole situation and using only à sélective part because you're misinform, Ms Khalif was not allowed to see the test nor explaning to her how it was done. This issue just started when Ms Khelif beating her russian contre part abd we know the role of the Russian aligards and its solid grip on the IBA. Ms Khelif lawyer asked the court to open the case the IBA and Ms Khelif

[@mrh938]

Mr khalif got the results of the test he signed the bloody paperwork

[@1282000sb]

Did she sign the paperwork stating XY chromosomes Where did you see it, ? Can you let me know it's interesting

[@shremich4583]

read the letters and mails on the IBA site, the IOC did nothing, the passport was enough. „ IBA clarifies the facts: the letter to the IOC regarding two ineligible boxers was sent and acknowledged August 5th, 2024 / IBA“

[@9395gb]

You don't watch boxing so don't pretend like you know the history of the IBA.

[@snexputana]

You're talking nonsense. Khelif originally appealed the ban and then withdrew her appeal. A simple blood test can determine xy/xx chromosomes so u can talk all this conspiracy about Russians but the test was done to wada standards and the fact she didn't proceed with the appeal tells you all u need to know. Safety of women in sports is paramount and your emotional bias cant change the fact khelif is male. Anybody with 20/20 vision can see that.

[@captainkirk4519]

Just discussion in a vacuum. Just need to wait for the court to publish test results and then discussion can happen.

[@johnmarston3864]

IOC an absolute disgrace.

[@ABDELGHANIGUETTAR]

😂😂😂IBA ,corruption assassin drogue....Russie mafia

[@richierich8353]

Oliver 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@veresannamaria4584]

Some xy women even have uterus, uterus is not an external organ. Who desides that the xy determines the gender not the genital organs? Maybe they have advantages in sports but don't call them males.

[@bilkomax]

Maybe don't have them box women either

[@samsonlovesyou]

They're not female. I wish he would stop misleading people.

[@FaroukSadi-sm4gm]

THEY ARE FEMALES LGBTQ NOT ALLOWED IN ALGERIA ALGERIA IS A MUSLIM COUNTRY

[@KingLouis51]

Surprisingly, the doctor seems to be ignorant of Swyer Syndrome. This is a rare condition when a BIOLOGICAL FEMALE (with a vagina and a womb) is born with XY chromosomes. They will mensturate (if given hormones) and although they cannot get pregnant naturally, they can carry a baby to term via IVF and give birth. We don't know yet whether or not Khelif or Ting have Swyer Syndrome, but if they do then they are certainly females and as such should be allowed to compete in the female category even with the presence of a Y chromosome and heightened testosterone. It's a natural advantage, the emphasis being on the word natural. Robert Wadlow (tallest human ever) wasn't banned from playing basketball for example. Caster Semenya (who doesn't have Swyer Syndrome) literally has internal testicles so it's far more reasonable to question and dispute her eligibility to compete in the female category.

[@author4you443]

You think the doctor isn't aware of Swyer syndrome! Of course he is, but that obviously doesn't apply here, otherwise it would be up for discussion.

[@haiyingkong8227]

he has testicle and flooded with male hormone during puberty. are you blind?

[@CopaceanuIonutBobi]

keep ruminating with this syndrome. You also understand, if he had this syndrome, he did not have testosterone at the level of a man. He has to do hormonal treatment for every competition so that he can reduce his testosterone to enter the testosterone limit for women...

[@KingLouis51]

@@author4you443I called him ignorant because he mentioned “XY conditions where you have a more female-like development” but stopped short of saying biologically female, in fact he actually said if you have XY chromosomes then you are biologically male - which, although true in 99.99% of cases, is not true with Swyer Syndrome and COULD be the condition Khelif and/or Ting have (until confirmed otherwise).

[@sumai1766]

@@KingLouis51 Nope, Swyer makes you look feminine, no male puberty. The DSD that Imane and Ting fit in is 5-alpha reductase deficiency, a condition that affects sexual development before birth and during puberty. People with this condition are genetically male, with one X and one Y chromosome in each cell, and they have male gonads

[@janewilliams5818]

Omg, he is spewing crap! Get your facts right before trying persuade others to get on your side!

[@ALGERIEECONOMIE]

If you don't know the details why are you still speculating like Donalt Trump? We don't want to hear *IF THIS IS THE CASE* We want to hear *FACTS* And fact you do not have because the IBA hasn't released them!

[@tommysoder1387]

Because they shouldn’t. That’s confidential and if Khalif wants her tests to be shown public, it’s an easy swap in the mouth and she’s clear. Why haven’t she tested her self? And why didn’t she appeal to CAS when IBA did this?

[@9395gb]

And now that khelif has lawyers well see if those results get released. I think Khelif doesn't want them released for obvious reasons.

[@ALGERIEECONOMIE]

@@tommysoder1387 confidential or not !!! We still haven't got t he *FACTS* and all we hear is speculations. Everybody including many celebrities have all said that Imane was a TRANS, they all jumped on the bandwagon without even trying to a little bit of research into who is Imane Khelif. Donald Trump is still portraying her as a man trans, a superman who destroyed the poor Italian boxer in 46 sec, however did the other boxers behaved like pussies against Imane in this competition, and didn't Imane lose 9 times in her boxing career ( that is a lot by boxing standards) Imane khelif is a woman born a woman fought all her 10 years career as a Woman. the fact that the IBA is discredited for scandals like dopping, mismanagement and corruption that tells me all I need to know about that organisation. And don't forget that IBA Russian boss ordered the so called test in 2023 (Delhi) immediately after Iman Khelif defeated the then undefeated russian Azalia Amineva ... that's food for thought

[@tommysoder1387]

@@ALGERIEECONOMIE Look, I get it, i hate Trump and everyone that immediately pulls out the trans argument or in any way makes fun of Imane Khelif or anyone like her. The political right has not considered the facts. However, the left has done the opposite and are looking at this through their ideologies as well. And even though that normally means that they come with good intentions and for everyones rights, it often becomes naive too and misses an important point. Women rights. This is an issue (DSD-women in sports) that can’t be resolved so to meet the rights of everyone. Having a male advantage in boxing might be dangerous for the opponent so the truth here must come out. I agree that you can’t trust Russia, but she hasn’t disproved them. That is sooo easy to do! So why is that? If she’s born with DSD and the type ARD 5, then she’s born male, mistaken as a woman. If she identify as a woman I’ll be respectful and call her that, but for the safety and fairness of sports, she cannot compete if she has gone through male puberty. The fact she has lost matches has nothing to do with it. It’s not ok to use doping if you lose som matches. See the failed logic?

[@nikkysings5844]

I've not heard that their testosterone levels went down and up. Lol wherd fid he get his info from???

[@scbcider79]

Spencer trying to argue biology with a biologist 🤣 I love you Spence but sometimes you really do make me smh 🤣

[@djahidslimani3312]

Être né avec des avantages ne fait pas de toi un champion le sport est humain et naturel faut respecter la nature et l' humanité avec sa diversité même biologique

[@mdrdprtcl]

why is this

[@NJM-DZ]

So every woman out rhere even from the start of humanity, from Eve to Mary till now, every woman has to do a chromosome taste to prouve tgat she is a woman, this is just redeculous

[@9395gb]

This is what happens when you make laws saying that you'll recognize biological men as legal women. Of course men were going to take advantage of it.

[@Daddy80sCool]

Can it have periods and give birth, if so, it's a woman, if not, it's a man.

[@JohnFisherChoir]

So I guess women that have gone through menopause aren’t women then?

[@haiyingkong8227]

it cannot. It has a very deformed penis, and its dad thought it cannot be boy, then only can be girl..... but it has testicle hidden inside body. it cannot have period, because it does not have ovarian, it cannot have baby, i think it is good term call it.... because we are not allowed to call it he and it is not she

[@9395gb]

​​@@JohnFisherChoirwomen who go through menopause do so because they did have periods and they could give birth to children before menopause. Your comparison makes no sense. Khelif and YuTing will never have periods or give birth ever in life because they are biological men.

[@Daddy80sCool]

@@JohnFisherChoir Yes they are women who have gone through the menopause and your point is?

[@Daddy80sCool]

Are you saying that a man who can't give birth or have periods is the same as a woman who can't give birth or have periods because of the menopause? If so then you are part of the problem.

[@GlutenEruption]

They have female bodies, female reproductive systems, female hormones, female characteristics, they were born and raised female and have always identified as female. #1 the entire POINT of sports is to demonstrate who has the biggest genetic advantage. Michael phelps has freakishly long arms and double jointed ankles that gave him a MASSIVE advantage over other swimmers, Usain Bolt has ridiculously long legs, way more red blood cells, and more efficient mitochondria than everyone else, the list goes on and on, and those genetic abnormalities gave them a MUCH bigger advantage than any of the (entirely unproven/hypothetical) claims against Kalif, yet nobody even considered banning them for the genes they were born with giving an unfair advantage. And #2 people are acting like she's some unstoppable beast, but a) her record clearly demonstrates she's not and she's been soundly beaten by other women boxers on many occasions, and b) anyone familiar with boxing who watched her bouts can plainly see she's extremely well matched against her other competitors in terms of strength, agility, and reaction, and only won due to superior technical skill which has absolutely nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with training and hard work.

[@9395gb]

They look nothing like women. Imane Khelif looks like Dill from the Crying Game and Ling Yu Ting looks like Jet Li.

[@GlutenEruption]

@@9395gb if you want to argue that biological women who can have babies are actually men if you think they look more masculine or biological men packing heat are actually women if you think they look more feminine, by all means, but I seem to remember you people arguing the exact OPPOSITE a month ago. Something about how appearance doesn't change what gender you are, and you can dress and do your hair all masculine but that doesn't mean you're a man, if you were born with a womb and a v, you're a woman, period. Now you believe the exact opposite, interesting 🤔... You're literally dismantling your entire ideology.

[@9395gb]

@GlutenEruption you're not a woman. I am. And please don't tell me what a woman is. Also keep trying to encourage all these delusions and misgynostic attitude. If you haven't realized it by now, there has been a huge backlash in the world against gay people and trans people because of all of people like you. Most of the public wants gay and trans rights and laws reversed entirely and they plan on doing it. But you keep up your activism and nonsense. You're only making it worse.

[@TheRealCountOlaf]

Let sean Strickland settle this, he has the right words

[@FaFa-yg7kt]

She has female organs since birth , no facial hair or body hair , calling her a male is unfairness

[@soundmind6477]

Wake up!

[@matpk]

​@@soundmind6477Lin and Imane were BORN WOMEN COMPLETED IN TOKYO 2021 AS WOMEN BOXERS If you attacked them you are attacking women Shame on you disgusting 🐖

[@lyaro2000]

She can give birth , IBA all bullies did not provide any evidence all rumors

[@9395gb]

No Khelif can't. You're lying.

[@khalzo7804]

I hope Khelif sues Simon as well. Fraudulent IBA never said the got XY chromosomes. Because they taken the test. Yet Simon is repeating the same false narrative

[@kevinb9830]

The IBA is not allowed to reveal personal information. They said Khelif can do that, but Khelif hasn't. Tells you all you need to know.

[@karin2397]

​@kevinb9830 They said read "between the lines" test showed that they did not fit the female criteria. The tests were chromosomal tests. They were banned on that basis, second test also came back with the same results. The two contenders did not query or withdrew their objection. When I read between the lines it makes them XY but have been brought up as female based on appearances when born. Nobody is aay they are trans and "identify as" female. They genuinely believed they are female. I do question their femanine sensitivities as I think most female would hate to be beaten up by someone that has stronger biological strengths as that is unfair. In boxing the weight categories are there for a reason as well as seperating males from females.

[@LukasMatejka-du5hb]

don't worry over there in england...... the current labour admin will SURELY put a stop to this madness, right 😆😆

[@jtin7177]

Brittney Griner has the same issue, why no one mentioned it.

[@lindasapiecha2515]

Phenotypical can be different to Genotypical

[@Angel4298G]

Iba lied and journalists are still runn this story

[@kevinb9830]

can tell who the mainstream media sheep are.

[@Angel4298G]

@@kevinb9830bro my comment always gets taken down for hate speech, i dont agree with transgenders in sports either, but this specific situation is an example of slander , find real trans athletes and go after them , not this innocent woman

[@Angel4298G]

@@kevinb9830 and it was showbizz the adult that broke down the whole situation and how the iba lied. Hes a boxing KZbinr , he wanted to know the truth too , none of us like trans athletes competing in combat sports, no one is saying that. We are just saying this specific case she is actually a women and this is slander by iba , no one in the world respected them but then make up a failed gender test and everyone treating them like god spoke the truth himself, what is going on with misinformation nowadays

[@kevinb9830]

@@Angel4298G Oh come on, use your eyes. That is not a woman and has never been a woman.

[@kevinb9830]

@@Angel4298G The IBA held a press conference showing that they sent results to the athlete and to the IOC. The IOC lied and claimed they never received any results, which the IBA proved they did as they showed the signed documents in the press conference. WHY would the IOC lie about it? There has to be a reason.

[@grb7883]

He. Xy. I can explain that. Very eas he is him.

[@Irishcelt90]

The hulk was born a normal boy aswel hahaha get a grip it shouldn't be allowed

[@flyersluver4eva]

I thought he said biologically ball less women

[@kahinakoffey3686]

Where is the proof for the YX chromosomes?

[@shremich4583]

the bloodtests in Istanbul in 2022 and 2023 in New Dheli with the same resultat XY. Khelif, Yu-ting, IOC have copys and were informed.

[@vladimirtocitu4140]

If that dude has XY then it is very simple

[@hammacheabdelaziz8481]

The IOC is more credible than the IBA, more knowledgeable with more experts. So, if they say these boxers are females, they have the right to participate with the established rules. In any case, in any sport, there are some advantages for some athletes that make them better than average.

[@9395gb]

No they aren't. The IOC is incredibly corrupt.