Sinking of the Moskva: Damage Assessment

[@dragonstormdipro1013]

My country used to train with the Russian Navy and talking to veterans I have learnt their crew training standard was always deemed pretty bad. The most important thing that is drilled into Indian navy personnel are "Fire control". Every sailor needs to be a firefighter. That's not something Russians follow.

[@andrewtaylor940]

The Indian Navy was largely built on the British Naval Tradition. As was Australia’s, Canada’s and the US Navy. Damage Control and Damage and Fire Avoidance was the most important thing going back to antiquity. The Russian and Soviet Navy came from a very different tradition (see; 2nd Pacific Fleet, Tsushima)

[@dragonstormdipro1013]

@@andrewtaylor940 Agreed. In fact, we have better record at war than Russians ever did. Just check Operation Trident and Python in 1971. Pretty sure Russians could never do anything like that.

[@thesecretsquirrel5935]

I have it from a George Cross winner, If a fire breaks out from a bomb or missile strike, His words to me..Grab as many injured mates around you as you can and run like fuck ! then when you've done that the screaming starts of burning human beings, you go back to stop that screaming and save what you can.

[@bellezayverdad]

@@andrewtaylor940 A naval tradition in which they don't care about fire within a confined space that can be floating many miles away from the nearest shore? What do they care about then? I think they're just profoundly inept.

[@victorbukowsky7496]

@@andrewtaylor940 Also, Russian navy has tons of conscripts. You can't train these 18 year olds, in only 1 year - that's the conscription term in RU. I bet most of the lower ranks sailors were conscripts. And these were always unmotivated bunch, half-useless. They simply don't care, and aren't interested in anything, that isn't being forced on them.

[@simonmoorcroft1417]

You will notice that most of the damage (and possible penetrations) are at the ships "radar centric". This is usually amidships under the main superstructure. Most Anti Ship missiles impact around this point. It is essentially the bullseye or centre of the elongated radar return that the missiles radar seeker homes in on. It is also generally where all the ships essential functions are located like the CIC. So definately not an accident then...

[@GadgetEngineering]

Great observation!

[@kraquin]

Right, they certainly weren't thinking about reducing RCS when they designed that ship. I can imagine there's a huge return given off in the vicinity of the two SSN12 tubes next to the fwd superstructure................ where those Neptunes struck.

[@dwwolf4636]

@@kraquin See that big rust patched hull just above the waterline on the left bit of the ship ? There was a fire behind that. That's just below the AK630 CIWS. Where 3000-4000 ready rounds are stored per gun. And there are 2 of em. probably 4 ounces or so of propellent each.

[@timesthree5757]

@@kraquin stealth are only stealth from the front or back not the sides. This was shown in a war game.

[@dalekeys7447]

In other words great shot

[@00calvinlee00]

Very similar to the attack of the USS Stark in 1987. After the hit by the two Exocets, the similarities stopped. The Stark crew managed to save the ship, fighting both the fire and at a point the extra water taken on during the firefighting efforts.

[@samuelweir5985]

Also, it should be noted that the US was not at war with Iraq at the time of the USS Stark attack. On the other hand, Russia was at war with Ukraine at the time that the Moskva was attacked. The Moskva was in a war zone while in a time of war and so all of its defensive systems should have been active and prepared for an attack.

[@mastermariner490]

@@samuelweir5985 True,there is also rumours she was hit by 3 neptune missiles,not 2. Thats means she was pretty badly crippled And i would suspect the crew onboard,radar operators,low ranking crew was conscripts like the army. Meaning they probably didnt have much training You should be a very experienced radar operator to detect sea skimming missiles in the sea clutter

[@ashcarrier6606]

America doesn't clutter its superstructures with solid rocket fuel and high explosive warheads.

[@barbarabeagley6650]

US Naval vessels train all hands for damage control. Russian vessels have a small number of crew that are focused on damage control.

[@iananderson1848]

Fascinating post Calvin..Do you think any modern vessel is immune from sea slimming cruise missiles ? From Qld Australia

[@northerncaptain855]

As a former naval officer and now retired Master of civilian manned military transport vessels, I’d offer that training in damage control is everything.

[@jimsteele9975]

Amen!

[@marcparent9857]

As a current Naval Officer, can confirm. DC is one of the most important basic skill any sailor should have and it makes the difference between sinking or limping back to shore.

[@deltaveedesignconsulting7697]

As an enlisted whose GQ station was damage control I suspect they were not at battle stations when the missiles struck. Open hatches don't control flooding very well.

[@isilder]

I think it got hit by a Neptune just above the waterline and so at the engine room, so its going to be extremely difficult to fight fire and flooding at the same time..engine room flooding .. no power for pumps, or pumps under water anyway, and then do they want to let the fires in the engine room continue , they might want to flood the engine room to greatly control the fire there.

[@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24]

Definitely some poopdeckers on board that ship

[@brucelytle1144]

I am in total agreement with everyone commenting on the lack of damage control. I was an MM1 in the Navy, Engineer, Chief Electrician on Merchant ships. Over time since the early 70's have had several observations of the Russian Fleets "operating". The one type of ship that is ALWAYS present, is the Ocean going Fleet Tug/salvage vessel. No tug available, no fleet ops.

[@militavia-air-defense-aircraft]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZakqGaEepZ4btk

[@Hidden_Trump]

I have served in Soviet Navy. When l was 18 y.o. l left school and joined the Navy (actually l left school at 16 y. o., and l was an electrician's apprentice for a year). Before enlisting in the ship's crew, l had to be in quarantine for 45 days (it is designated for getting used to the naval life). I had not got any training. But since I was an ordinary Russian schoolboy l had had to study calculus, fundumentals of analysis and high level mathematics at school. So l automatically became a naval chart operator. I used a chart which looks like a compass rose for calculations. So in 18 y. o. I was performing naval calculations and I gave recommendations to Master. Since I served at a brand new Slava class cruiser, I had a lot of practice. And due to bad recommendations I had after school, l ended up in Navy and had to serve for 3 years. If l had been a good boy, l would have had a chance to serve in the Army for 2 years

[@Hidden_Trump]

Western Navies don't need rescue tug-vessels, because they have not the eggs to perform life exercises with actual firing. But Soviet Navy did life exercises. The small missile ship "Musson"was even destroyed and sank during testing of veapons

[@Michael-ez3zg]

The most informative video I have seen on the demise of the Moskva .

[@SteamCrane]

Sometime around 1940, the US Navy realized that portholes in the hull were a significant weak point. Looking at build photos on navsource of North Carolina, BB-55, 2 long levels of portholes were very visible when she was on the stocks just before launch in June 1940, but later fitout photos from April 1941 show no portholes, they had either been filled or plating replaced. (The photo resolution isn't great). Similar transition with BB-56. There is video of the Pearl Harbor salvage of battleships that shows portholes with welded on plates to assist in refloating. That's how far behind the Russians were when the Slavas were built, they have 2 levels of portholes, with the bottom row uncomfortably close to the waterline. The charring around many portholes on the upper level indicates air circulation that would have fed the fires. The lower level of portholes are beneath the surface(!).

[@azchris1979]

Good point. You cant pull air in if it cant go out. Seems those port holes were exhaust ports for a tremendous fire.

[@parrot849]

@Andrew_koala I’ve read many books that refer to the “maritime” branch of a nation’s military, and have never seen any publisher refer to that nation’s navy, capitalized or not, as NAVY in consistent form

[@Stubrit]

@Andrew_koala No, that's not the divide. The word NAVY is just the word navy in block capitals, whatever its application.

[@perotekku]

@Andrew_koala Yes, and "Army" is a colour, the proper term is ARMY. /s But in all seriousness, Navy can mean either "dark blue" or "maritime military"

[@SteamCrane]

@Andrew_koala US official usage is "Navy". Example from an official advertisement: "Are you considering the U.S. Navy as enlisted or as an officer? Learn about the American Navy...". "NAVY" is used on equipment for better readability at long range. I looked further, from an official POHM document: "The Royal Australian Navy consists of nearly 50 commissioned vessels...". So even in Oz, "Navy" is mixed case. Then again, in Oz you drive on the wrong side of the road.

[@andygass9096]

Here's an extract from the report into the loss of HMS Sheffield, a Type 42 destroyer sunk in the Falklands by the Argentine Navy: "Sheffield could have saved herself by being better prepared. It is clear the operations room was not functioning well when the missile was detected, 30 seconds before impact, but part of this was unfortunate timing. The Captain was resting in his cabin at the time and “The anti-air warfare officer had left the ship’s operations room and was having a coffee in the wardroom while his assistant had left to visit the heads”. No one can be on duty 24/7 and everyone had to pace themselves and take breaks. Fatigue was a particular problem for commanders in the Falklands who could not fully relax for weeks on end. The timing of these absences was exceptionally unlucky but not an indicator of slackness. When hit, Sheffield was not at actions stations which requires the entire crew to be closed up, but in defence watches where half the crew are on watch while the other half rest". Note "Heads" is Royal Navy parlance for toilets The report did find that the Principal Warfare Officer did not react as he should have and the AA Officer was absent from the ops room for too long. (You can read an explanation of his actions in a statement by the AAWO, Lt Cdr Batho, here) Sister ship, HMS Glasgow detected the aircraft and Exocets and reacted better. In a further stroke of bad luck, at the exact moment of the attack, Sheffield was making a transmission on her SATCOM which blinded her UAA1, a masthead sensor which could detect electronic emissions from aircraft and missiles, further reducing potential warning time. As the Guardian reported with relish back in 2000, the Entendard aircraft were detected by radar operators on HMS Invincible, a full 19 minutes before the Exocet hit Sheffield. Plagued by a series of false contact reports in the preceding days, the senior officer on Invincible responsible for air defence of the whole task force classified the contact as “spurious” and no warnings were issued. It was not just a few men on Sheffield who were on a steep learning curve in the early part of the war.

[@xl000]

what does it have to do with the moskva

[@n1k1george]

Thank you for a thorough and intelligent analysis of this incident.

[@Phaaschh]

To keep any fleet on its toes, it is "exercise, exercise, exercise" in as many different forms as possible. Damage control, as WW2 showed, is central to the salvation of your ship, witness the survival rates, RN & USN v IJN. Russia however, despite the comparative size of its navy, has, it seems, not progressed much since Tsushima.

[@Kobalts27]

60% of the personnel of the Russian Navy are conscripts. CV of a Russian conscript soldier, a young man with a low level of education comes from poor areas, is drafted into the army for two years, is sent to serve, for example, on a warship, he spends his time and is replaced by new conscripts. What can you want from such a composition? But for the Russian navy to consist of professional sailors, the military budget is too small.

[@KJAkk]

If you look closely the starboard side S300 seems to have exploded as the cover for the VLS appears to have been blown away.

[@eugeniusro]

I used software to increase the resolution on the photo and it looks like the S 300 launchers on the starboard side are open. drive.google.com/file/d/19Fi9kNhNPbeQKG5DQ636GGFOCGVN-kkN/view

[@thedevilinthecircuit1414]

This is exceptionally good analysis based on the limited imagery available. Bravo!

[@zemog1025]

Looks to be significant damage in the S300 rotary launchers near the starboard funnel. Looks like the magazine ignited and the best was vented upward. This would also jive with facture in the port hull plating near the hanger.

[@Viking88Power]

Agreed

[@richardkudrna7503]

Good eye! Now that I see it, no wonder this thing sank. I assume no Russian ship will come into range of Odessa now. Time for Ukraine to cut the nose off of the Western Russian forces, encircle, force Russia to fight at the far end of their logistics, take the heat off the eastern pincer.

[@fabfabby]

I was just writing a comment about that when I figured I should look first to see if anyone else mentioned it. It looks like most of the starboard side VLS cover was peeled back toward the hanger.

[@martinpalmer6203]

Of course Ignoring the SA-N-6 damage which was probably the entire source of damage to the boat and source of the fire below decks plays to the Pro-ukrainian narrative. Still waiting for the drone footage if the Ukranian story has any merit... think we will be waiting a long time because the footage doesn't exist.

[@arthurrsaker8893]

@@martinpalmer6203 Are you implying then, that the sinking was entirely due to incompetent explosives handling, the resultant fire, incompetent damage control, all exacerbated by a staggering level of wishful thinking in the design of the ship, its systems and management, all the way from Kremlin tactical doctrinal thinkers, the captain, and on down through target acquisition, fire control systems, and defensive weapons operators? Or perhaps an unfortunate stroke of bad luck that could happen to anyone. That's a pretty damning indictment of Russian hubris and stupidity isn't it? What's so hard about admitting that Ukrainian land forces thoroughly outwitted the Russian navy, and gave them the biggest black eye since they were humiliated in the Russo Japanese war. However, that said, when emotion gets in the way of facts, the knee jerk response is often to go to denial and excuse mode isn't it?

[@doncdove]

A very careful and detailed analysis. I appreciate your insight.

[@davidtonner4247]

Seems from the pics that the damage control on this boat sucked. With a rescue tug alongside they should have been abe to seal compartments and counter flood to correct the list. Then pump out water with the tug, or I imagine they had portable pumps on the tug. Looks like they gave up pretty quick. Not like they were under immeadiate threat of attack.

[@stephenrickstrew7237]

True indeed …That ship may have been such a bad design it was impossible to save it … they had a lot of ordinance and rocket fuel onboard… and no fire suppression.. yikes

[@victorbukowsky7496]

Those huge missile bays are on fire, even one explosion of that would have blown entire ship to pieces, along with any other vessel nearby. So that's why they evacuated immediately, and were unable to do any manual damage control. Even this is risky.

[@mikestarkey7989]

Would the Russians want to. The missile cruisers are nuclear powered. If they've been hit in the wrong place, then THAT'S a major problem.

[@phishphood423]

Sometimes Russian military technology makes me think, “wow, this is what a middle school boy would have imagined for a warship/tank/plane.” I.E. massive focus on “hard factors” - putting tons of weapons on a ship, autoloaders in their tanks and IR dazzlers, sheer numbers of vehicles, top speed of an aircraft etc. And then they seemingly forget about survivability, actual combat effectiveness, and force multipliers (like good coms, integration, night fighting, etc) in their designs or plans.

[@repawnd1]

Could also be intentional, bringing the ship into port would be an unwanted embarrassment for Putin. And being an old ship, not worth repairing anyway.

[@mhobson2009]

Sir, you didn't mention this: there are gaps in the hull plates and one is torn loose just forward of the helicopter hangar. The hull appears bulged outwards by a four or five feet at this point.

[@randygillespie4952]

Right, the radars were completely Destroyed, seen another video, the bow is Destroyed and looks like a hit, instead of blowing up n out.

[@taraswertelecki3786]

That is consistent with an internal explosion.

[@mhobson2009]

@@TheMcspreader Two Neptune impacts. One at the bow and one amidship by the stacks. That broken hull has to be from an internal explosion, probably in the S-300 bay. Edit: I did some checking. The S300 naval model warhead is about 143kg or 313lb, so only a little less than the Neptune cruise missile. It seems reasonable that one or more of these might have exploded in their launch tubes due to the fire from the midships Neptune hit.

[@simonjones3863]

Yes, this. If they HAD been in rough seas with that crack in the hull the conditions would have broken her back pretty quick.

[@krakhedd]

Regarding the width of that crack: I've been pondering since I first saw this image. I've seen pics of the Slavas w/ people around for scale; the ships are genuinely massive, something like 600 feet long. I think that crack is likely more than four feet wide as of this image

[@takaharatanaka8818]

I had the pleasure of flying onto several US, Royal Navy & Aussie Navy ships during my career as a US Army Rotary Wing Aviator. After landing the first thing said is, "Welcome aboard" most often by the XO. Next we were invited to the galley to be fed. The third thing was a crash course on firefighting where we, if nothing else were taught how to properly put on bunker gear, SCBA & point a firehose. Every sailor & everyone remaining on board for more than a couple hours becomes damage control. That isn't the case on Russian ships. Nightstalkers

[@ycplum7062]

The amount of soot from port holes suggests that the fire spread far. That suggests the damage control was not very effective. If anything it looks like the ship was quickly abandoned. It really looks like the crew was caught napping. I strongly suspect the crew did not have time to pack their belongings before abandoning the ship. That means the crew pictured in formation were all issued fresh uniforms for the photo op.

[@reveivl]

Who all look like they expect to be sent to the gulag...

[@FightingIrish-pe4ye]

Well looks like they all had time for a haircut & shave??

[@sergeygalayda2931]

Crew footage is Russia TV fake. They spliced some old filming to create something to calm Russians. 1. Admiral is in different uniform during his speech. 2. Crew members looks to fresh for those who was fighting fire and swim in cold waters night before. 3. It was rainy at this time in Sevastopol. 4. There is no green leafs on tree at this time in Sevastopol. 5. Mothers looking for sons fate who was on board in Russia social media VK

[@LinasVepstas]

One phone intercept said they left all their papers, personal cell phones onboard, didn't have time to collect them.

[@imjashingyou3461]

Any proff that they are the actual crew? Not just stand ins?

[@stephenrickstrew7237]

I wonder if the Moskva’s Radar was fully operational at the time … 50 days of high tempo operations and missile launches may have broken the system …and glorious Russian logistics may have not had the skill or the spares to keep their ships combat ready …?

[@bluemarlin8138]

Probably, although I’m pretty skeptical of Russian air defense capability even under optimum conditions.

[@stephenrickstrew7237]

@@bluemarlin8138 war is tough on electronics…. Especially cut rate Russian crap that they don’t have spares for …it’s tough to keep a radar operational 24/7 … at sea ..

[@סמיאליהו-נ9ח]

ק

[@Coastalgafiretrn]

I am a ship fire instructor and yes there was little if any attempts to seal off the ventilation and boundary control. Fire will move pretty fast and if explosions opened any Zebra water tight hatches she would not make it. Failure to control fire and flooding is the doom of any ship. The fire tugs do little but ass free board water and free board water causes loss of ballast. Good video!

[@williamlloyd3769]

You would hope that before the ship went on station the captain would have set an increased readiness posture including closing watertight boundaries.

[@okanui]

all the Zebra doors were on a special operation in Ukraine :)

[@_mysilentblue2227]

So true. "Material Condition Zebra" you give them way to much credit. Even if Z was set could you imagine the condition of the seals on those watertight doors. By the looks of the even trim and list, it has plenty of flooding fore to aft.

[@ryanhampson673]

I was Army so don’t have much experience with Naval things but I do know ships are ridiculously complicated things that require tons of drills and training…Looking at the Russian Army’s total lack of training in areas makes it no surprise that their navy would be in a similar state of disorder.

[@grandgao3984]

@@williamlloyd3769 yeah, even USN at 1940's know that very well. Lack of professionalism for sure, maybe some arrogance as well. USS Stark also took two by surprise and survived just fine

[@justinbeinhauer5352]

Thank you.. well edited piece of work.. humor and intrigue throughout .. appropriate enough for me to share with my kids.. and this means a lot ! 5*+ keep the tone..

[@lonihollenbeck4654]

Excellent assessment, one note, none of those mustered sailors appeared to have a scratch on them. A ship in that condition provides a lot of sharp edges that weren't there a minute ago.

[@keithburrage1424]

Quite possibly a pre-event photo. I agree with you they all look healthy and happy!

[@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24]

@@keithburrage1424 They probably staged such parades for use in different propoganda narratives. For example if the ship had shot down enemy planes or drones attacking the fleet they'd have used the same footage presented as a medal/award parade to recognise the crew's victory. In this case they use it to showcase survivors. That's my 1st guess. 2nd guess it could be legit and they're only showing the uninjured crew.

[@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24]

The name of the ship was a billy O tea

[@chrislong3938]

Those were probably only the ones in decent shape to stand... Or, as Burrage said, it's a pre-op photo...

[@lonihollenbeck4654]

@@chrislong3938 I can't imagine what the results of the explosions must have been like inside the hull of that ship. So, I'm asking anyone who might know, if one was below decks and in the stern of the ship when the explosions took place, what would have been the effects on a human body of that blast force? Burns, busted ear drums, etc.? It must have been hellacious.

[@samconway2326]

I thought these ships might have been extremely hard to sink. How wrong I was. I don't think the crew had any clue they could be attacked. Very poor drills and by the looks poorly trained.

[@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24]

My name is Albert poopdecker and I was supreme Fleet rear admiral of submarine force charlee delta back in 92 and I can say they're training is good but they didn't have coms and fire extinguisher onbaord because they didn't expect the war to turn hot.

[@samconway2326]

@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 I find that unbelievable. I don't think there is anyway they went to sea without the correct fire fighting equipment. Any ship going to sea hopes for the best and prepares for the worst. If you you are telling me a captain of a war ship can go to sea unprepared for war then I just Don't believe it.

[@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24]

@@samconway2326 they didn't think the enemy had missiles that can reach them. That and they left without the senior midship poopdecker onbaord

[@samconway2326]

@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 I still don't believe that to be the case. This was a war ship. You go to sea expecting to go to war with anyone on the planet and you prepare your ship for any eventuality. War could break out with NATO anytime and they knew that.

[@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24]

@@samconway2326 then why did they leave port without any poopdeckers on board?

[@MS46Z]

Wow that was an incredible video. Concise and informative. Thank you very much

[@simonjones3863]

Can't help but notice that long black crack in the hull from the deck to the waterline, just forward of the aft superstructure. Only a few people have mentioned it in their battle damage assessment of this ship. Also, that last smoke stain is coming from the port torpedo tube door, and they are damn lucky there were no detonations.

[@WychardNL]

Maybe the automated ship defense didn't classify the appraoching Neptune missiles as hostile until it was too late. During the Falkland War the Argentinian Exocet missiles were also classified as "friendly" by some defense software.

[@Peteralleyman]

Two small targets coming at you at nearly mach 1 and don't react to anything, are friendly? I know with Russians as friends, you don't need enemies, but no.

[@super1337bf3ordie]

possibly the russian rwr dident have the signature in the catalog

[@mrdboy1210]

Unless the radars were not active at the time, which is possible, they did not want to give NATO AWACS an easy time and they didn't think Ukraine could pull anything off. Passive radars would still have picked up the missiles at around 9km, the range of the onboard radar seeker on the Neptun, it's unclear how much time the Moskva had to react then, if any.

[@christopherharmon2433]

When a 10+ thousand ton ship is sunk by two ~150 pound warheads, that means that the ships damage control sucked.

[@Cydonius1]

Every sailor on a US ship forms part of a damage control party. On Russian ships they have dedicated crew for damage control parties that are unable to cover the whole ship.

[@slawomirozdoba4605]

Neptune has 150 kg (330 lb) warheads times two gives a total of 300kg (660 lb).

[@ericcrabtree6245]

As pointed out, the warheads are 2X the size you stated. Still, hitting the right spots means everything. See the HMS Hood and USS Arizona as examples.

[@John-qq3wp]

They attacked it at night, while the Russians slept

[@rogerbrownreacts8528]

The Russians use solid fuel on nothing. They have to carry the fuel for all the weapons.

[@SteamCrane]

2:18 - the red circles mark portholes that were not dogged at the time of the missile hits. US Navy figured this out in ~1940.

[@JackMenendez]

The picture of the crew has trees with leaves on them, grass is growing. wrong season?

[@JEviston]

Amazing video. I have watched 25 videos breaking down this situation. Your video is the first one without any propaganda. I couldn't tell what side you support. Great job.

[@Chironex_Fleckeri]

I initially thought it was more than 2 impacts but possibly just two detonations. But your explanations make sense. The soot marks weren't hull breaches. Got it. They sorta look like a hole punched by a missile that failed to detonate. That threw me off. So, smoke filled the ship fairly quickly it looks like. Probably the reason for evacuation? Failure to seal up the sources of smoke . Poor response time? Just trying to reason out what may have caused them to abandon the ship.

[@khiem1939]

Well they ARE Russians!

[@GadgetEngineering]

Seeing that it seems that no defensive countermeasures look deployed, they crew might have even been fully unaware of the incoming missiles until they felt the blast. In such a scenario, they would have lost their shit immediately. Not knowing what's happening, hit by a presumable 'undetectable' enemy, maybe even considering this to be a NATO stealth strike, they just dump everything and GTFO, just like the tank crews on land... This might be a fantasy scenario, but even if tempered, they detected the missiles incoming, their defenses failed, they fear further strikes, and just decide it's not worth dying for and old scrap heap that can't defend itself. Navy morale can't be much higher than the rest of the armed forces. They realize there is not much to be done, their objective capacity for damage control is minimal, they make the reasonable decision to GTFO. Same outcome. Had they been fighting for their lives and the mission, it does seem that the ship could have been saved with efficient flood management. But at what readiness state? If lucky they could have gotten one OSA launcher up on emergency power and maybe a manually fired 30mm CIWS, at the risk of all of them going down in a fiery inferno if another hit came in, with the clarity that if they weren't able to defend themselves before, now they would be even worse off. Just goes to show how much of an exponential difference crew morale, training, and sure systems effectiveness make, compared to paper tigers.

[@andrewtaylor940]

@@GadgetEngineering one of the things that struck me from this video was just how much unneeded mechanical complexity all of the ships weapon systems, especially the air defense weapons, had.

[@leogama3422]

They said they launched two missiles. But maybe even only one hit the ship. If it initiated a large fire and detonated boarded ammunition, it would be enough to sink this big fat boat.

[@Chironex_Fleckeri]

@@GadgetEngineering that was a great read. Thanks

[@ridsouto]

Just came across this video and subscribed to the channel right away, both because of the impeccable analysis and the very insightful comments. I will be watching, reading and hopefully learning from you and your very savvy community.

[@triibustevonkass9100]

There is huge hole on deck on starboard side right above C-300 silos. Video of "rescued" crew lineup was filmed last year, when captain was still alive. Right now Russian official position is that captain was killed. In addition leaves appear on the trees at the end of the video... There is huge crack in hull, right under C-300 tracking radar. How this ship is still floating, is beyond me. Independent journalist from Crimea confirmed 50-60 survivors. But this might be Ukrainian side propaganda. I honestly don't know the real number of survivors. But it’s certainly not "most" or "majority". Rockets hit ship in engine compartment and in operational center premises, where most of the crew were during the fight. Or at least it should have been.

[@orchidorio]

Let's give this some time. 41822

[@Dreatnought1966]

I work as an engineer for Rheinmetall Defense and can hardly imagine that the Neptun missiles, which are still almost untested, were used. Since the US delivered 10 Harpoon anti-ship missiles 10 days before the attack, that would be much more likely. Greetings from Germany

[@Rorschach1024]

isn't the Neptun an upgraded KH-35? That missile has been in development since 2016.

[@Rorschach1024]

Lets be honest, Ukraine builds some of the best rocket engines in the world. The RD-170/180 series are quite literally best in class. Only SpaceX has been able to improve upon them, so improving upon an old soviet design from the early 70's should be a piece of cake.

[@Peteralleyman]

What has being a Rheinmetall engineer to do with it? Did you witness the engineering and testing program of the Neptune missile?

[@tamecosse5463]

Very thorough / interesting analysis.

[@GadgetEngineering]

Thanks!

[@richardderosset6960]

Great and well presented analysis, very very informative . One of the best causality reports I have ever heard . Thank you .

[@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24]

Mission failed, we'll get em next time

[@dcbradfo657]

I agree. Great summary.

[@dutchroll]

The only problem with assuming that video of the crew was taken after the sinking and that therefore most survived, is that Russian released “news” on their Ukraine military operations has proven notoriously misleading pretty much 100% of the time. Given the proven state of their military now as a whole, I have no doubt that after the missile impact there ensued total chaos.

[@GadgetEngineering]

I agree mostly, and I'm fully on board with the utter SHTF after impact, I speculate they didn't have any warning and the explosion was their first hint that todays was going to be a bad day. That level of unexpectedness wreaks havoc even on disciplined crews... Still, the almost dead still weather, and the well deployed liferafts/gig/lifeboat, does make me believe that a good plurality survived, as the damage isn't catastrophic (P1000's not cooking off, S300F magazine intact...)

[@antiquegeek]

Given the creative nature of Russian news I would not write off the possibility that the video of the survivors may have had a bit of staging involved -including adding some fresh young faced crew members to bolster the photo op. Regardless, it would have been hell on earth for that crew. The responding vessels might well have been wondering what else might be left to explode as they tried to render assistance so that would no doubt have made for some level of anxiety all around. Floating beside that ship in a life raft may not have given any feeling of safety at all. A note from the Titanic - deployed life rafts do not always guarantee that people were able to get into them on time or in full numbers.

[@lamwen03]

"Oh my God, the ship is on fire". Thanks, Chieftan.

[@j3i2i2yl7]

Reports of the captains death may have been premature, but what would you estimate the life expectancy is for a Russian captain who gets the flagship sunk without a shot in defense and comes home with his uniform dry?

[@dutchroll]

@@j3i2i2yl7 I would expect him to be very careful what he touches, eats, and drinks!

[@rq83]

Great Program, your work is WAY better than any news clip.

[@Griffintheelder]

There is no way in hell that all the 510 crew was evacuated safely as the Russian ministry of defense claims.

[@cs-rj8ru]

probably not all, but quite possible most.

[@fa0676]

Seems like both missiles headed for the radar cross section highpoints and buried themselves deep into the vessel before detonating. The internal shockwave would have been devastating for any crew inside nearby. Also, in the sinking picture, it is interesting to see that power is still on the vessel, so any auxiliary machinery rooms with diesel generators will be left intact allowing crew to run the High Pressure Sea Water system feeding those two fire monitors. Power is still on also as the Top Dome fire control S-A-N9 guidance radar seems to be stabilising itself to the horizon too.

[@dbeierl]

Those two fire monitors are on another vessel.

[@lewiseberhart2871]

Damage control in the US Navy everyone onboard is a firefighter from the CO down to the Seamen Recruit. Recent damaged ships attacked by Iraq and Iran, the USS Stark, USS Robert, and USS Cole all having received serious damage remained afloat and put back into service due to the Crew's damage control training. Bravo Zulu to the Shipboard Firefighting Schools throughout the fleet, especially the Fire School in Norfolk, Virginia.

[@takaharatanaka8818]

I had the pleasure of flying onto several US, Royal Navy & Aussie Navy ships during my career as a US Army Rotary Wing Aviator. After landing the first thing said is, "Welcome aboard" most often by the XO. Next we were invited to the galley to be fed. The third thing was a crash course on firefighting where we, if nothing else were taught how to properly put on bunker gear, SCBA & point a firehose. Every sailor & everyone remaining on board for more than a couple hours becomes damage control. That isn't the case on Russian ships. Nightstalkers

[@deltaveedesignconsulting7697]

I suspect the strike was a total surprize. I was in the navy and at the highest level of alert we trained to "batten down the hatches." For those who have heard the expression, but may not know the meaning, here it is. Modern warships are made of fairly small compartments that can be sealed off from each other during an attack so that a breach in the hull can be contained. If the Mockba was not at general quarters at the time of the attack the flooding could have been worse since the hatches weren't battened Edit; Seeing the diagram of the ship, it appears the engine rooms were probably on fire, and flooding. Bad news.

[@warden330]

Closing up has been a feature of naval preparedness for a long time. My father served in the Royal Navy through WW2 in escort vessels and a fleet minesweepers, and one of his favourite expressions when people left doors open letting in the cold at home was to order us to 'close all doors and watertight hatches'. He said it was so much a feature of life at sea that it had become ingrained, and probably one which he gave himself many times as officer of the watch. It seems extraordinary if a ship in a combat zone was not so prepared, and suggests they believed that the Ukrainians were incapable of mounting an effective attack.

[@deltaveedesignconsulting7697]

@@warden330 In the American navy it was Dog the Hatches. The levers that clamped the hatches against the seals were called dogs.

[@kevincrosby1760]

@@deltaveedesignconsulting7697 Looking at my son and saying "Zebra" was adequate to have him go close whatever door that he left open. Standing up, saying "Head Call", and walking off was considered acceptable. "Quarters" would have him at the front door with backpack and lunch ready for the bus. No, I wasn't being "Mr. Military". He is ADHD and had a VERY short attention span. Training him over the years so that a word or two replaced a verbal list of tasks was easier on both of us.

[@ifell3]

Great coverage!

[@imcoachrick2]

The video of crew appears to be summer video as indicated by trees in full bloom. Also, other live video in Moscow I have seen recently shows snow on the ground.

[@allanfifield8256]

I believe that the video is claimed to be taken in Sevastopol, far south of Moscow.

[@Dirk80241]

Such a great analysis of the damage and the response. How ironic: a new central fire suppression and damage control system had not been installed... That's exactly what might have saved her.

[@49525Bob]

Excellent summary.

[@GadgetEngineering]

Thanks!

[@pekkaansa3734]

Very good details!!

[@lucdelhaize4029]

One rather obvious issue raised with the videos purporting the muster of the Moskva crew on parade is that the trees in the background are bearing summer leafy green canopy whereas as the season is winter just over so this must have been filmed at least 6 months earlier therefore invalidates proof of crew survival most especially the captain.

[@allangibson2408]

Particularly as the captain was present during the parade…

[@Rocketsong]

Most of the trees appear to be evergreens, cypress etc. I also see what look to be live oaks which are green year round. There is also what looks like a plum or flowering cherry tree in full bloom at 12:14. So, this certainly appears to be Spring. (I still think the video is staged/old, but it does not look like summer to me)

[@francisbacon7738]

If there are 200 on the parade ground where are the other 300??

[@Hattonbank]

That was an old photograph

[@markhollinshead5795]

looks like they had no idea they were coming

[@pablopicaro7649]

good review and analysis, note that the Seas and taking of picture appear fairly calm - so seems unlikely a major storm just passed through

[@GadgetEngineering]

Yep, weather better than I guessed yesterday, but strike happened earlier than I first believed. I figured 20.00 local time, when there was some rain, but around 15.00 local it was fair. She could have floated for a few hours, with the super light weather after nightfall being the last straw taking her down.

[@arthurrsaker8893]

@@GadgetEngineering The Met at time of missile attack. Windspeed 18 knots. Sea state 2 metre swell, note, just a swell so no breaking crests to cause sea clutter impairment to target acquisition for the defensive weapons systems. The photos suggest that some of those were not activated or aligned to the direction of the incoming threat, which in turn suggests that the ship was not closed up to general quarters (action stations) but might have been operating at the lower readiness level of normal watchkeeping routine. I note that Neptune is programmed to fly to a waypoint before making its turn toward its target under the control of its guidance radar at about 5 metres above wave height. At about 6-7 seconds per mile of that last radar guided leg of its flight the defenders have maybe a minute to react to it. So it seems that the doubters of the effectiveness of Ukraine's Neptune missile are indulging in more than a little wishful thinking.

[@andrewholdaway813]

Damage assessment: sir, I have to report the moskva is well and truly buggered.

[@StephenSauls1960]

When we were in the US Navy, we were repeatedly drilled in damage control and fire fighting. The Fire Fighting School in Norfolk was about as real as you could get without dying. The DUNKER, USS Sinking Ship in Norfolk also tested your mettle. When you got wet you get wet, period. I can recall seeing the Forrestal fire video repeatedly. I grew sick of it, but it remains with me now. When I saw the outtakes of a certain news network trying to accuse the now late Senator John McCain to be the cause of it, it made my stomach churn. He was not the cause. In looking at the pictures and a brief video of the ship burning like crispy bacon, it was mind-blowing that there had been little if any attempt to save the ship. Whether American or foreign navy, it's a sad day when you see one go down, but the apparent idiocy of the crew and quickness to abandon ship shows the lack of training, professionalism, and almost mind you a kindergarten mentality. I sailed in the Persian Gulf a lot and would see the Moskva anchored in the gulf with a couple of other ships. I always pondered, why they did that and because of their mooring, it would make them sitting ducks. In a way, it is a wake-up call for the USN and other navies. Get your acts together, get the PMS done like you should, turn and burn to make your ship as water-tight and fire-proof as possible, no matter where the missiles hit. There is no calling no 911, it is rare for USN ships to even have tugs. The presence of Russian tugs leads me to believe she was a break-down vessel similar to their seriously broken carrier. I guess when all else fails call AAA of the Ocean for all your fire fighting needs, though from the looks of things all they did was fill the ship up full of water. Maybe in a few years depending on how deep she is, Moskva might become a good fishing area and diving attraction.

[@BoleDaPole]

yea it's nothing that hard-core these days lol

[@nikosatsaves3141]

Did your naval damage control training include applying a huge amount of putty on to the large holes that the missiles struck open to the hull of the ship ? Fire fighting was irrelevant as long as fire was not the cause of the sinking.

[@takaharatanaka8818]

I had the pleasure of flying onto several US, Royal Navy & Aussie Navy ships during my career as a US Army Rotary Wing Aviator. After landing the first thing said is, "Welcome aboard" most often by the XO. Next we were invited to the galley to be fed. The third thing was a crash course on firefighting where we, if nothing else were taught how to properly put on bunker gear, SCBA & point a firehose. Every sailor & everyone remaining on board for more than a couple hours becomes damage control. That isn't the case on Russian ships. Nightstalkers

[@arthurrsaker8893]

@@nikosatsaves3141 fire fighting is very relevant. Until fire is under control the rest of damage control operations cannot begin. If it was irrelevant the USN and the NATO navies would not invest so much training time in it and there would be much less emphasis on the costly fire suppression and fire fighting equipment built into our warships. That equipment and training are regarded as vital investment, not just an amusing way to keep the crew busy when they have nothing else to do. Fire fighting effectiveness makes the difference between a bad situation worsening and causing the loss of the ship and her crew and the ship and crew being able to survive and fight on.

[@nikosatsaves3141]

@@arthurrsaker8893 is fire troubling you finding that putty to patch thr hole? Fire can destroy a ship but i wont sink it. Numerous examples.

[@rickmarosi-yz9wt-s5b]

It seems plausible that the drone was repeatedly probing looking for blind spot even a temporary one & found one. Or with help by jamming a particular window for an attack. The stormy weather contributed as well.

[@sergeygalayda2931]

There was no stormy weather.

[@dcbradfo657]

It has also been pointed out that the ship was built in Ukraine back in the day. The senior naval military professionals in Ukraine once served with their counterparts in Russia. There is nobody better suited than Ukraine to know the weak/blind spots of this ship and crew.

[@SoloSailing77]

The look on the general shaking their hands, had a pretty pissed off look on his face. But, with the level of propaganda russia puts out, I would be amazed if those guys standing in line, actually all came from the ship! We really don't honestly know when the video was even made!

[@harmless6813]

That's what I was about to ask. Do we even know that this videos was actually taken _after_ the sinking of the Moskva?

[@timcunningham6854]

Nobody is pointing the brow vertical line 1/3 from the stern of the ship. This is a facture crack of a significant size, probably as a result the explosion after the missile hit.

[@Dave5843-d9m]

The undamaged parts of the ship look incredibly scruffy and rusty. Poor maintenance maybe? Probably why they had a tug parked nearby.

[@katrinapaton5283]

Yes, I came to the same conclusion.

[@geordiegeorge9041]

The Moskva was a floating rust bucket, there was always an ocean going tug following it.

[@craigplatel813]

If your talking about the deck looking rusted that's how the Russians paint their ships.

[@geordiegeorge9041]

@@craigplatel813 No, a work mate of mine served on board the Slava, that was the Moskva's name during soviet times. It was always breaking down, and rust wasn't removed it was just painted over. An ocean going tug followed it everywhere.

[@craigplatel813]

@@geordiegeorge9041 I'm sure that's true, but I was responding to the post that the ship looked rusty, which it doesn't appear to be so. I've actually had people ask me why their decks are all rusted when they would see the paint job.

[@toradog5719]

I was on the USS Saint Paul in Vietnam when we took a 100mm round at the waterline, starboard bow. We made it back to the Phillipines after plugging up the hole but it was nip and tuck all the way.

[@fritzvold9968]

100mm is a 4 inch shell. any casualties?

[@toradog5719]

@@fritzvold9968 Punched large hole in the ship, then exploded. So yes.

[@DIYAllied]

Thanks Putin for proving how inept the Russian military really is.

[@TripleMulti]

Thank you for your very detailed illustration. Great Job.

[@jonny-b4954]

3:49 Dude that gearing/screw carousel system is so fuckin awesome. Look at that brilliant engineering.

[@Dog.soldier1950]

Maintenance nightmare for a force with a poor reputation for maintenance

[@dbs555]

Huge compartment that if hit by an incoming missile or a Russian missile detonates inside, the flooding is uncontrollable.

[@EstorilEm]

It’s completely over-engineered and complicated, and takes up more space than a simple modular VLS system.

[@ChaplainDMK]

Nice video, really like that you are heavy on actual info, facts, details, and only speculate on what can be comfortably deduced - e.g. defensive weapons and radars dont seem to have been activated, tugs on location very quickly, most of the life rafts deployed implying large amount of crew probably survived, probable mission profile of the ship meaning it didn't have nuclear warheads. A lot better than 99% of the online discourse that immediately jumps to definite conclusions based on minimal evidence.

[@mikedx2706]

You haven't mentioned that the Russian FSB arrested the Igor Osipov, Admiral of the Black Sea Fleeet, on Saturday, April 16, 2022. He will probably end up in the Gulag navy now for losing the Moskva, since the ship's captain avoided that fate by dying during the Neptune attack.

[@orchidorio]

I would bet that admiral knew "they" were coming to get him. 41822

[@georgewashington1621]

Isnt the ships captain present on the post attack parade?

[@Chironex_Fleckeri]

The image at the end is a cartoon from The Times? I saw Ukrainian TV networks covering this yesterday, and people were happy to have a chuckle. British humor is always appreciated in dark times.

[@southerncross86]

Thanks for the pictures and comments. I am still in shock seeing the moskva has sunk. Incredible. A lesson for the USA , on Future use of aircraft carriers near shores....all this war is crazy, so sad to see the losses on both side, a waste of resources and precious lifes.

[@EstorilEm]

The US operates its super carriers in a carrier task force with multiple AEGIS-equipped destroyers and other ships for protection. This would not have been an issue for one, however you also don’t bring a Nimitz this close to shore regardless - the aircraft onboard have decent range and refueling capabilities. It’s not really a “new lesson” - just common sense.

[@h8GW]

@@EstorilEm The Navy is quite protective of their supercarriers.....despite having active _nearly a dozen._ Navy Aviation -even subtracting Marine Corps- is bigger than many a country's air force.

[@timmotel5804]

Excellent report. There is not much else out there except this posting. I like the "Shamu" Blimp. A Florida stop over at some time, before "Davy Jones Locker," final port of call... Thank you for this very detailed and only report of it's kind so far.

[@thomasromanelli2561]

There are a growing number of sailor families wanting answers about exactly what happened, as it's becoming obvious that not all of the estimated 510 crew were rescued. Like the poorly handled Kursk disaster in 2000, there will be long-lasting implications for the reputation of the Russian Navy and political fallout about the general combat readiness of Russia's maritime forces. Regarding the potential presence of lost nuclear ordinance, only the Russians know for sure. While I appreciate your reasoned analysis, the reckless disregard for the safety of the ground troops deployed and then contaminated in the Chernobyl AO does not inspire a lot of confidence in Russian restraint.

[@justforever96]

Chernobyl was Soviet, not "Russian" and it was in the Ukraine, not Russia. While I doubt that every single one of the 510 made it out okay (what, the missile blast and huge fires were not expected to take any lives?), the fact that the ship in the photos is totally abandoned and no crew is visible makes it unlikely that the ship sank without all the sailors being taken off first. What, are they just chilling out belowdecks, waiting for the ship to sink? It is a military operation, so I don't know what your implication that the Russians somehow failed to 'rescue" them is supposed to mean. Sometimes sailors die in war, the government cannot always help that. What you seem to want people to believe is that the ship was struck, and sank hours later, yet the Russian military failed to get everyone off the ship before it sank. I see no evidence of that at all. If some lives were lost, that is not because they "failed to rescue" them, but because their ship was just struck by two missiles, flooded and seriously burned. Lives are often lost under those circumstances, has nothing to do with "failing to rescue" them. I mean, after all, why did the US government _allow_ so many US troops to be killed by IEDs in Afghanistan!? What about those 13 soldiers killed in the recent base strikes? I have questions, it seems the US government failed to rescue them, since they died, and the government should have prevented that!

[@captlarry-3525]

Excellent and technically correct narration, despite the very young sounding voice. Quite informative ! Thank You !

[@NinjaKiller1022]

This sinking proves that the Russian attempts to modernize, have failed in a funny, but humiliating way. And also proves the Russian military’s incompetence, Blissful incompetence.

[@victorzvyagintsev1325]

Its an old ship, the original Slava cruiser.

[@NinjaKiller1022]

@@victorzvyagintsev1325 That does not negate the fact that they are a failure.

[@sergeyp1069]

Good analysis. Thanks for that! The video footage of the crew allegedly taken after the rescue operation does indeed seem suspicious as everybody there is so calm and fresh (including the captain who is definitely the first one to blame for the shit that happened), which would hardly be the case after the heaviest naval loss in decades.

[@robkunkel8833]

If anything goes wrong at the large ship level, especially in the US Navy, the Captain can forget any upward promotion, regardless of the cause. One retired cruise ship Captain said he grazed a shoal in the Alaskan cruise ship waters. He retired, after all the reports were completed and no damage to either the shoal or ship was long confirmed.

[@robkunkel8833]

But I did meet him in a Caribbean AA meeting, for what that is worth.☕️🏝✂️🍻

[@dcbradfo657]

My understanding is the captain died. Either he died during the attack or he went down with his ship. That's an admiral or some other higher-level person in the video.

[@beba2893]

You forgot one thing : SLAVA class cruiser was built in - Ukraine. So they knew its weakpoints. And defences. And how to get around them. Its Irony actually that it was sunk in front of the port it was built in.

[@arthurrsaker8893]

Yes built in Ukraine at Mykolaiv shipyard. If you search for Mykolaiv you can see an excellent photo of the Moscva all new and shiny in the harbour. Regarding her weak spots, the Ukrainians would have been well aware of the attack angles from which to take full advantage of the configuration of the main air defence radars also their bandwidths thus which frequencies to jam and impair their effectiveness.

[@beba2893]

@@arthurrsaker8893 Yep they knew it all, and she is unable to defend this close to coast.

[@larrywheeler7027]

This absolutely the best explanation of the sinking !!!

[@MG-Nordster]

This is the best video and footage i have seen yet on this. Based on this video, it almost seems the ship MIGHT have survived, had there been better firefighting both by suppression and crew. It is my understanding that the Russians only have dedicated firefighters, and that the whole crew is not TRAINED for the task. While there is extensive damage, the Sheffield had to be scuttled, and didn't sink from the damage. IMO, the USS Cole, had a bigger hole in its hull, than is seen on this ship. I don't see one tow rope and the last video, shows the ship actually about to roll over. Thanks for the video!

[@andyf4292]

did they not learn the lesson ther IJN did?

[@thefreemonk6938]

​@@andyf4292 IJN?

[@andyf4292]

@@thefreemonk6938 damage control is really important, and everyone should know how to do it

[@stephenearl761]

You seem to rely on the photos of the port side of the ship, there is a video showing the starboard side as the aircraft circles the ship under tow. On that you see that the aft torpedo room which was under the flight deck appears to have exploded with 2/3rds of the structure missing. The port list may be do to counter flooding to minimize the flooding on the starboard side of the ship. Also, do you have any idea where the CCC would have been on these ships?

[@flakstruk-8481]

Interesting

[@kevinteltech5787]

Hard to believe that in a war the idiots had watertight doors open

[@Axterix13]

Apparently a bunch of those Soviet era ships lack sufficient compartmentalization, by western warship standards. And then you also have to wonder how well the things like the seals were maintained...

[@kevincrosby1760]

@@Axterix13 From personal experience I can tell you that on a US Navy ship visually inspecting the hatch seals and dogs used to be a weekly, with cleaning/inspecting/adjusting/lubricating the hatches a monthly scheduled check. During the monthly, the rubber seals were cleaned, replaced if any shrinkage was noted, chalk applied to the knife-edge on the hatch, then the hatch was adjusted until you got an unbroken chalk line on the rubber seal. When the adjustment was proper, silicone grease was applied to the rubber gasket to keep it pliable. Tedious? Absolutely. However my shop was below the waterline. If we were flooding, that hatch would make the difference between being in a workshop and being in a steel fishbowl. I took the maintenance pretty seriously. The other biggie is rather obvious...how watertight the hatch is doesn't matter if people don't keep it closed.

[@xxxxCronoxxxx]

7:00 that image would have been some time after the attack so it makes sense the the missile defense system isnt in an engagement mode

[@ggee7391]

My Father served on the Ark Royal in the 1950s and 60s. He said at the time that large surface ships would not survive an attack by missile or submarine and would not be built in the future. He was right about survival aspect - Sheffield - Belgrano - and now the Moskva.

[@riconui5227]

Ukrainian defenders on Snake Island instructed them to “fuck off”, and they did. How about that?

[@KillersFromTheWest]

Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if Russia filmed the post rescue hand shaking ceremony before they even went to sea, just in case they got hit and sunk.

[@Hattonbank]

Correct, that is what they did

[@VioletGiraffe]

The video you're referring to in the end is glued together from two separate footages, the first one has been shot before Moskva sunk, so of course all the officers are there. A typically russian move.

[@ashharris7293]

Lots of good thoughts with the limited pictures but from what I see, this ship still should have made it back to port. My speculation is the ship was capsized due to the accumulation of firefighting water which reduced the metacentric height enough to eliminate the righting arm.

[@allanfifield8256]

Recent USSR/Russian surface naval construction has struck me as "overarmed". I suspect that particularly after refits and modernizations add weight that many Russian ships are top-heavy which makes them prone to capsize. The Japanese Imperial Navy had this problem leading up to and into World War II. Some recent Western warships seemed to me very under-armed with good sized ships seeming to have almost token weaponry.

[@tawhv]

Be aware that after the explosion of 2 x 150 kg warheads there will be a lot of smaller and bigger holes in the hull below the waterline. There is no chance to fix them.

[@tawhv]

It would not be a good idea to tow a burning ship with so much ammunition into a port.

[@kevincrosby1760]

The OTHER rule of firefighting...If you are pumping it INTO the hull, you'd better be pumping it OUT of the hull. Flooding is flooding, and the water doesn't care if it got there from a hole or a fire hose.

[@kkrolik2106]

1962 incident was close call 2 officers was for launch 1 against, for launch they needed all 3 and they spend hours of arguing until last guy convinced other 2.

[@chrisrowland1514]

I wonder if the US will try and get a look at her on the bottom

[@edwhatshisname3562]

LOL.. нет.

[@diegoferreiro9478]

The Black Sea is not very deep at that area, so if I were the Russians I would try to salvage it before somebody else does. At least they still have the Kommuna in service (theoretically).

[@mrmacias4217]

@@diegoferreiro9478 2 actually

[@tonyduncan9852]

I like the work you have put in. Thanks.

[@jazldazl9193]

Another Moskva was one of six Leningrad- class destroyers built for the Soviet Navy during the 1930s, one of the three Project 1 variants. Completed in 1938 and assigned to the Black Sea Fleet, she participated in the Raid on Constanta on 26 June 1941, a few days after the beginning of the German invasion of the Soviet Union. After the ship had finished bombarding targets in the port, she was sunk by a mine.

[@red.5475]

You'd think there would be at least one sailor on that parade ground, with a bandage on. The crew losses might be worse than we've been led to believe.

[@katrinapaton5283]

Or theyve all been packed off to Siberia so as not to cast doubt on the official "The ship sponaniously caught fire, blew up and sank" line the higher ups are pushing. I'm sure the crew of the Black Sea flag ship have been on parade before allowing them to release this "post action" video when its no such thing.

[@allangibson2408]

The Captain was present too - the same guy reported KIA…

[@jacomostert4413]

Thank you. Good info.

[@fergusferguson4782]

In the crew video the sun is almost directly overhead, and the trees are in full foliage. That means July. Not April.

[@allanfifield8256]

I believe that the video is claimed to be taken in Sevastopol, far south of Moscow.

[@RT-mm8rq]

I was told that in the past ( Soviet era) Russian sailors were not trained as much as those in western navies. While there are systems that required some training/schooling most simply showed up to fill positions and were trained by senior NCOs while on the job. I would imagine that it would have quite an impact on the effectiveness of fire fighting and flooding if your senior personnel are incapacitated or killed at the start, especially if your subordinates are not well trained to begin with.

[@marcus_ohreallyus]

As a former sailor, I can tell you that everyone on a US ship is trained to fight fires. In Russia they just have a crew dedicated to that task.

[@naziznaziz7904]

América is the dévil greatest soldier whats gonna happen when the dévil leave it side

[@RT-mm8rq]

@@naziznaziz7904 Have no idea what you comment has to do with this. Take it somewhere els.

[@sussy9278]

@@naziznaziz7904 whát the fúck you tálking ábout

[@imdeplorable2241]

Great video, Mr. Gadget. Well done, sir. Well done.👍

[@alanburke1893]

Excellent analysis of an important moment in the war in Ukraine. I assume the Moskva was buzzed by Ukrainian drones that caused her to be deployed to a position where the Neptune missiles could strike her. Always a tragedy when sailors and ship are lost, but she was deployed as part an evil war.

[@12313846]

Then the entire US navy should be sunk. Remember the US invaded Iraq for false reasons and more than one million dead........... Before you judge Russia look at the US first.

[@grandgao3984]

Justice is subjective I'm afraid, you'd be shocked by the French documentary "DONBASS". Regardless, no excuse for corruption & sloppy dmg con. Those sailors would be much better off with a NATO cmdr had they got the choice

[@alueshen]

Very small correction. The water canons are not from a tug, but from the Moskva herself.

[@wendellcoleman1137]

Is it on the bottom of the Black Sea or not? This whole argument as to who sunk the thing is irrelevant. It's like arguing on whether it went down by the bow or the stern!

[@GadgetEngineering]

Yes Sir, sitting on the sea floor as we speak!

[@dorbie]

Glad you mentioned the liferafts. I tried to point this out to Sutton from Covert Shores and he didn't seem to understand in his initial response.

[@marsrizzo2854]

Was a hull tech she could have been saved. No command

[@robertoluis9238]

WELL STATED-------

[@orchidorio]

DAMN RIGHT ! 41822

[@brianb5306]

Awesome video, I liked all the resources you gathered from other channels and added a lot of great visuals. Just some constructive criticism, if you're going to use all these resources from other channels maybe cite them or throw them a thank you. I know most of the source visuals have logos, just my two cents and if I have just missed something please accept my apology. Great videos and thanks again for the content

[@KennethLWagner-yw9ko]

id like to get a ukrainin postage stamp of this

[@nancythomas-wardm.b.a2993]

I still havent found any pictures on YT of the ship on its side or sinking

[@Dog.soldier1950]

Goes to show the low DC capability, design and construction of Russian navy vessels as well as the poor tactical training and lets just throw in the crimes against humanity

[@markir9]

Well thought out and detailed analysis. Also plausible conjecture regarding the 2 missile hit. However, just being devil's advocate...the poor quality images do not discount some type of internal accident that resulted in fire and blasting *out* of the hull causing water ingress. To discount that more detailed images of the ship are needed I think (e.g plates bent inward vs outward).