SIRAH SKEPTICISM ⚠️ • Myth-Busting with Historian

[@Salah-vg4tn]

Honestly, I believe a significant portion of Sirah entails embellishment. The author of the most frequently referenced Sirah, Muhammad ibn Ishaq, was deemed unreliable in transmitting hadith, yet his conveyance of Sirah stories is widely accepted. A considerable part of Sirah delves into battles, overshadowing the events that occurred between them, which are frequently overlooked. It's undeniable that battle narratives hold more allure than accounts of everyday life, possibly explaining why battles dominate much of the Sirah literature. Additionally, academically, the Maghazi literature served as the primary source of Sirah, with other narratives being incorporated later. The Iqra story also poses issues as it bears a striking resemblance to Caedmon's tale. It's imperative to analyze Sirah through the lens of Quranic narratives. Although the Quran is often concise, it provides crucial details about various events in the Prophet's life.

[@BK_Beloved]

Yes, in deep studies this is understood. Hadith transmitting has its own science and it is not the same as Seerah. In hadith science, accuracy of wording, relaying is a condition for a trustworthy narrator. They have to remember the actual words of the prophet, they also have to mention the method of how the report reached them. However, In Seerah, recalling sequence of events and what event led to what event is not exactly the same thing. that is why a person can be weak in regards to Hadith but be and expert in another field such as Seerah. So there is no contradiction there.

[@Salah-vg4tn]

@@BK_Beloved I get where you're coming from, but I disagree that the hadith narrators were required to reproduce the exact wordings of the prophets. You'll find multiple authentic narrations with different wordings. Anyway, my point is simply that Sirah definitely includes a lot of sensational materials, mostly included to engage the listeners. Remember, the primary source of information in the early years of Islam was the storytellers. Stories, along with some written documents like the letters of Urwah ibn Zubayr, later evolved into Sirah. As you can imagine, the main sources of entertainment for people living in that era were drinking, dancing, etc., which in the Islamic world were largely replaced by pious stories. I wouldn't be surprised if the storytellers spiced up the content to engage the audience.

[@BK_Beloved]

yes brother, I hear what your saying about Seerah. Definitely Seerah standards has not been as stringet as the hadith sciences. Due to that, it is more prone to critique. That is why I really enjoy what brother Historyun is doing here. There are 2 main views from the companions in regards to relaying the wording of the prophet. Group 1 believed you had to narrat word for word such as ibn umar, there are hadiths where he corrected students for not remembering the wording and order of hows the prophets said it to him. Group 2 believed that you can relay the gist of what the prophet said or relay the wording as close to the orginal. That was the view of Ibn Masud.That is why we see both views in our hadith literature when you examine the hadiths and narrators input outside the hadith. just sharing knowledge :). May Allah give us success and keep us firm on the straight path. @@Salah-vg4tn

[@Historyun]

That is not the case. The first two commentators understand the discussion being had and have engaged the topic at the right level, please do not force it towards a direction other than what was intended. No one is challenging Bukhari or denying hadith. Be just in your speech.

[@axis2312]

I'm sceptical about people who claim certainty in general, but I'm also wary of people who revise narratives with the assumption that this was somehow missed by thousands of scholars or historians prior. The seerah is treated with the utmost respect, so I don't know that people would readily attribute lies to such a work. Our modern lens can be a hinderance when sifting through the masses of reports or attributions written in these books but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater and start over. Just because something seems unlikely doesn't automatically make it criticism-worthy. After all, this is unlike any other story, this is the story of a Prophet. I'm not aware of the qualifications needed to write a seerah book, but the margin for error is narrow because the sources are all the same, so I would like to find out what the brother in this interview is intending to debunk, especially with regards to "controversial" subjects. I'm dismayed by his questioning of the ages of the wives of the Prophet PBUH, as well as common narratives about the initial meeting with Jibril AS, as there is nothing alarming with this narrative nor does it make the Prophet PBUH look weak or deficient, on the contrary it's human and relatable. I would like him to give an explanation for the issues that he's raised and why he believes the Sealed Nectar is untrustworthy, along with his sources for why those narratives are incorrect and not merely his intuition. Barak'Allahu feek akhi, I appreciate your inquisitive mind. I'd also advise exercising caution in some areas. Nonetheless it's imperative to question narratives and any claims presented to us, as it's evident that humans have an inclination to embellish the mundane, but the level of scrutiny in this video suggests negligence on the part of our predecessors and confidence that we can somehow ascertain the real narrative of the life of the Prophet PBUH today simply by using tools that we'd employ for any event in history

[@Hermann329]

​@HISTORYUN a problem with presenting a counter-narrative is that it can make people who aren't already academically on par see through weaknesses and make the doubt chain go where it shouldn't. This is like presenting mutazilite to an unsuspecting audience and hope they are critical and knowledgeable enough to see its contradictions. Also, the part where he says a 9 year old simply cannot make such a decision. Well, guess what, her parents did in the widespread narrative. And if you look at the children of the palestinians they are quite mature for their age, which doesn't make impossible even in a contemporary context. AsSalaamu alaikum wa rahmatuLlaahi wa barakaatuhu

[@zeeshandogar9406]

Some true points. A sign of the end times too, when proper knowledge would be lifted. Nowadays things are being more and more diluted till people are left uncertain in many matters.

[@abdullahinoor3972]

Jazakallahu khayran

[@UsthazKanzulAhmed]

❤❤❤❤Allah Yubarik Lak.

[@Shuayb_ibn_Saleh]

No one taught seerah better than Imam Anwar al Awlaki may Allah grant him firdous

[@khairt1731]

Anwar and Shaykh Yasir have the best Seerah in the English language. Imam Anwar 20 DVD biography of Umar ibn Khattab R.A is extraordinary, Alhamdulilah

[@منذر-ح1ذ]

@@khairt1731Don't lump Shaykh Anwar with a watered-down US puppet please.

[@indianmonothiest]

​@@khairt1731 can you share akhi Like playlist JazakaAllahu khairan

[@CordobaGeneral1234]

Ameen

[@kingmosesix432]

Ameen

[@Mahad921]

I wonder if the western lens have clouded some of the brother's assumptions and saying certain things could not happen because they lived in a desert or that young people cannot make mature decisions whilst forgetting some of them ruled empires

[@jageerdarjag3883]

unfortunately just as history is biased, so are the historians. Mostly, we find ourselves telling the stories we like and how we like to tell them, and for the most part, it means our education and where we live influences our narratives. Modern Muslims are deep into this type of identity crisis and always trying to justify how today it should be seen.

[@astroflyinsights]

It's also the identity scourge and Big Agriculture/Pharma's crimes being hidden. Simply go into any church or look at some unrelated topic's records on childbirth in England. You will find women even in slums having children into their 50s. Late 40s was nothing strange at all even 100 years ago. Today even young people, especially from the Va-k_s generation starting in the 90s if I recall correctly, find themselves unable to have children or it's much harder. Then you've chemicals in the soil, water, air etc. Of course they will say it's people not marrying, women working, mgtow etc etc. Like it's somehow down to individual choice and free will. What else are they going to say?

[@brahim-313]

I always thought Khadija (as) had to be younger because Rasulallah (sawa) had 2-3 sons with her and 4 daughters. I do not buy she was a widow and the daughters were adopted from a previous marriage. We have to question why was she portrayed this way. Also, I do not buy Abu Bakr being the first Muslim "man." This is not a personal attack on him. We know Khadija(as) and Imam Ali (as) were in the house of the Prophet (sawa). Zaid (ra) was the adopted son, but when Muslims say, "Ali was the first child, Zaid the first freed slave, and Abu Bakr the first Muslim man, it sounds like people are lowering the status of Ali and Zaid. Why does freed slave and child become a category? It casts doubt on their iman. Zaid ibn Harith (ra) was like a son to Rasulallah (sawa) and died a shaheed. Ibn Taymiyyah even questions Ali's Islam since he became Muslim young. Would Rasulallah (s) accept the shahada of someone he thought couldn't comprehend Islam. He was raised by Khadija(as) and the Prophet (s). There are many other cases in hadiths or history that seem to bring down the status of Rasulallah(sawa) or are flat out insults to his character and contradict the Quran. Such as him being bewitched, Astaghfirullah. Inshallah these are discussed. Love the channel.

[@alb_1002]

The guy in the video is to influenced by the western sciences that are good but sometimes have false information such as the theories of history that the west uses. Although there are good western scholars they have nothing on our scholars. He also makes claims that have no basis like for example having so many children after 40 this is not uncommon in the past and even today. I don't know why this is such a problem for him even the age of Aisha (may Allah have mercy on her) this is not even an issue just look at the history of the world or even biographies of our scholars in the past who themselves married young it was very common. Or look at young men that we consider children today fighting wars in that time. This is why history is very important because if you now history in general you will never get fooled by some of these western scholars make stupid claims that have no basis and are clearly influenced by the modern world post word war 1 and 2

[@bosbanon3452]

The age of Aisha Radhiyallahu Anha is conflicted in some source, most people in my country believe 12

[@FeliciaCalifia]

Thank you for this. I had all of these questions but as a convert I have been not treated well by native born Muslims. This discussion is needed in this ummah and has been needed for the at least the last 30 years that I have been Muslim.

[@royalhydra5455]

So sorry to hear this

[@lamabey8721]

Wow!! This is what Islam used to be, having a group of real, Critical Thinkers, which has boiled down to only a few Critical Thinkers of today. Islam holds a very unique position among the Masters of Wisdom Traditions, we can say it’s the Repository of the Hermetic-Abrahamic Faiths. That being said Islam in its pure forms offers a platform of Universal brotherhood and Sisterhood, thus it has been suppressed and altered. May the Prophet be pleased…Ramadan Mubarak….🙏🏿

[@Historyun]

You are most welcome sir

[@sajids2]

19:10 wahi. Initial reaction Shocked, Waraqah bin naufal meeting 22:40 english language limitations vs original arabic Simple book Then Deep dive Shifa shamail relations with family and wives 27:26 recommendations Lings - Rodgerson - Kandhalwi- Hayward-

[@malenedietl3369]

Just out of interest, what is problematic about" The Sealed Nectar"?

[@ismail-v9t5y]

Did i miss the part about why The Sealed Nectar isnt recommended? I literally just bought it on recommendation.

[@royalhydra5455]

😂

[@aligee7903]

Incredible video. There is strong reason why the quran does not simply address its audience as believers, muslims, or people of faith etc. but also people of learning, understanding, reason etc. It is my firm belief that it is a quranic edict to apply rationale and scientific scrutiny as well as faith and love to our religion. Thank you for following this principle so brilliantly on this channel, may Allah accept your efforts and bless us all with faith and understanding. Ameen🤲🏽

[@baraji4653]

I am afraid that this method of thinking can be a slippery slope if one is not very cautious. A lot of the islamic teaching is interwoven with seerah, hadith alternately the Qur'an. Fo instance, today you say it's the stories in the seerah while neglecting the fact that these are accounts of the early Islam. DO NOT START TO UNPICK THE FAITH FROM PEOPLE'S HEARTS. THIS RELIGION IS NOT BASED ON REASONING RATHER REVELATION AND EVIDENCE. {{قل هاتوا برهانكم}} May Allah guide us all.

[@Historyun]

Join the Adab Book Club and learn what Seerah is and what it isn't. Your heart is in the right place but your conclusions are erroneous. No scholar of Islam ever took religion from Seerah texts and no one is picking on your faith, just giving you a better understanding of Historiography, that's all. Barakallahu Feekum

[@astroflyinsights]

The Qur'an asks often: will you not reason?

[@dayan47]

Stop dismissing Arabic..it is of fundamental import.As you mentioned the meanings of the words is paramount. Ibn Hisham is problematic. High level recent seerah is available in Arabic published in Saudi and available in Cairo in specific locale. I studied it, yet aqidah and Hadeeth are more important to me along with tafsir. I will listen to Yasir Qadhi in English for seerah as I trust him.

[@dayan47]

I very much enjoyed your discussion, it's about time the subject be opened.

[@aswadexodus8230]

Why go out to university to acknowledge who Allah is? Remember those who were most known to be illiterate and basic reading skills are considered to be the best of people and we have in today's society the worst.

[@Ab-up2vc]

Mashallah, now you've become a physician and concluded that it's impossible for a woman at 40 to procreate six children, and you made this conclusion about a couple who lived more than 1400 years ago, and one of them is a prophet!! Mashallah, what other miracles or blessings for our prophet would you deny because your little brain and experience cannot accept based on the standards of our modern society?

[@Historyun]

Listen with the intent to learn, not to argue or find fault. The word "impossible" was never mentioned or even intimated. Common sense however does recognise the reduced fertility of a pre-menopausal woman in her 40s. Any woman able to give birth to 7 children from the age of 40 onwards (after already having given birth to children before) would be considered exceptional, even in the most developed modern society. That was the point. As for "and one of them was a prophet"....how many prophets were unable to have children and had to pray for miracles very late in life? Prophethood does not entitled one to having children. To be a sharp critic you must be a good listener. Barakallahu Feekum

[@Nurluminated]

Yeah but it’s possible because Sarah gave birth at a old age

[@Ab-up2vc]

@@Historyun May Allah bless you, my brother. I am sorry if my language was harsh. May Allah forgive me and you. I believe the notion of impossibility was implied when you mentioned that it is extraordinary for something like this to happen these days, given all the technological advancements. This suggests that such an event would be impossible without this technology and considering the harsh living conditions in old Arabia. This was my understanding, and may Allah forgive me if I misinterpreted your intention. The appropriate approach to questioning Khadija's age is to examine whether there is no authentic narration stating her age when she married the Prophet or if there are conflicting authentic narrations regarding her age (both of which may hold validity). Your guest employed modern standards to question these narrations, which may not be the appropriate method for challenging a historical account. You are correct that prophethood does not guarantee the ability to have children. What I intended to convey is that the fact that one of them is a prophet makes the narrations mentioning this extraordinary event,based on modern standards, very understandable rather than questionable.

[@Historyun]

​​@@Ab-up2vcno worries. You misunderstood the point I was making, it was to say that given the age and number of children (which no one is denying were born) it would make more sense that she was in her 20s when she married prophet Muhammad ﷺ based purely on the fertility rates of a younger woman. That's the point, but if we accept that she was indeed in her 40s then it would be truly a miracle because women who are near or past menopause are not generally known to have 7 children That was the point, so when people debate between the two opinions concerning the age of our Mother Khadijah, taking biology into consideration, the opinion that states she was in her 20s would appear more plausible.

[@creativeideas012]

​@@Historyun Agreed on the fertility point raised by ab-up No idea about other parts of the world but in yemen & other South Asian countries, especially in their secluded cities, it isn't an uncommon phenomena even today for nephews & nieces to have uncles & aunts younger than them Moreover we don't even have to go very far back. Many of our grandmothers had almost 2 dozen children out of which about a dozen would make it to adulthood, while they themselves would remain fully functional so to speak. Nowadays many women especially in urban setups would die from so many births. You are what you eat comes to mind. Fertility & menopause was a very vague issue before industrialization

[@YA-hm5zy]

It makes absolute sense that the prophet pbuh was frightened of his experience with Gabriel on the mountain. Completely normal reaction even for a prophet who doesn'tyet know he is a prophet. If anything it makes the story far more believable. How can you possibly know how one should react in such incredible circumstances.

[@noorsaadeh]

Joel Hayward the Leadership of Muhammad. Excellent

[@RahilyaNapoli]

Khadija radhiAllahu anha was 4 years older (last I heard), not 40 years old! and Aisha radhiAllahu anha was 17 years old (last I read about) at consummation, and 13 or 14 at marriage. Humans shake in excitement whenever they encounter amazing events that are momentous and likely to change their life!... Just to mention a few... It is a disservice to Islam and su' dhun about Allah that He will wrong His prophet so much, marry him to an old woman and a child, both of whom he (salallahu alayhi wasalaam) loved so much! Are they hinting at something? Anyway, I agree with the ustadh Rabbi hafidh-hu. Islam is an open, clear, easy, and comfortable way of life where no falsehood can be sustained nor injustice perpetrated. Whenever there is an issue, the problem is not the religion Allah has chosen for humanity, but either the human themselves or the historical narrative they advance. And Allah knows best.

[@Al_Sirat_Al_Mustaqeem]

There were a few historical inaccuracies in this video. For example if I remember correctly ghingis khan said “ I am the punishment of heaven” which would make sense because he was tengri, also he had met and talked to a Muslim scholar already, so it wouldn’t be out of the question for him to understand Islamic beliefs.

[@Historyun]

That is a good point, he did have advisors who could have informed him of certain tenets of the faith however the way it is written and narrated by our historians is very precise and would imply that he knew the principles of divine retribution through the agency of non-Muslims, just like the Romans and Persians were sent against the Jewish inhabitants of Jerusalem as a punishment from Allah.

[@Al_Sirat_Al_Mustaqeem]

@@Historyun also the quote was said by one of his descendants when he attacked bagdad so it could have been a mix of the two

[@Historyun]

​@@Al_Sirat_Al_Mustaqeemabsolutely. This is why it's important to scrutinize and evaluate the historical narrative beyond the surface level

[@undercoverangel1410]

OMG! Thank you both!! For a second I almost cried because this was one of my favorite history stories and I was annoyed about going through it again but then a reverse information was offered in the comment section that made the quote and story sound even cooler and the acknowledgement of the probability of it happening through the advisors is awesome!😂🙌... proof that if you trust God with your search for truth you win no matter what...he is truly the greatest writer 🥰 May Allah SWT bless you both 🙏🙏🙏 this was very fun to read. Salaams from San Francisco ✌️🌉

[@Historyun]

You are most welcome

[@kingrapid]

Dr Sallabi's series on the Seerah of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) (3 vols.) aswell as the Khulafa Rashidoon plus others are very good MashaAllah..

[@younissaif4156]

My opinion on learning seraa First i would read a sahih sera book or lectures that is investegated to give a general picture Then to get deeper i would study a specialized seraa books in specific subject example book on mecca period on the profet as a statman etc After that the biography of the sehabab will help in understanding the bigger picture Finaly to dive into the detail i will have to check with the sahih hadits and to reflect on the sera

[@jamalraja6621]

As salamu alaykum dear brother, If it would be possible could you recommend a/some sirahs for us to read. Jazakallah

[@Historyun]

Wa Aleikum Salam You are welcome to join the Adab Book Club on telegram where an entire video series is available covering various titles and styles of Seerah in the English language. The videos are exclusive to the Telegram channel and you can watch them at your own pace t.me/AdabBookClub

[@azrakarim6306]

Assalamu aleikum brother why would people be arguing about ages of child bearring i have one sister in law who mashaallah delivered a health boy at the age of 54yrs. So why couldn't Hazrat Khadijah produce 6children in 15odd years ,some go through menopause till late 50s early 60s ,hence what are arguing about my brother's

[@Historyun]

Wa Aleikum Salam The discussion is in regards to "probable" outcomes between a woman in her 20s and one in her 40s. Considering that some historians claim Khadijah was in her 20s when she married prophet Muhammad ﷺ, it makes more sense if we consider that he gave birth to 7 children during the marriage. From a biological perspective it's more "probable" as opposed to the view that she was in her 40s when they got married. No one is denying anything, just analysing the two opinions using biology as a distinguishing factor

[@RD-wn1us]

Do you KNOW what the scholars justification is for that claim of Khadijah being 20 years? Or are preferring the position based on your intellect and your supposed understanding of biology? Do you have a degree in physiology? What are your credentials to push your own narrative here?

[@slimane6960]

Well giving birth at 50+ is the exception not the rule, hence from a statistical perspective it's more likely Khadija was in her 20s, wa Lahu a3lam

[@khomol]

I found this episode really interesting because I thought I was really good at Seerah but I haven’t even heard of these other books let alone read any of them so reading list updated. However, there was a lot of examples about how not to understand the “narrative “from the usual Books, but there wasn’t any alternatives or indeed answers on how to understand those particular topics. I felt we could’ve had a bit more information or examples about what Amir thought we should be doing

[@Historyun]

There is a sequel next week InshaaAllah. Barakallahu Feekum

[@khomol]

Woohoo

[@AQDCKSA]

As salaamu alaikum, The brother, who would have been good to introduce and give some bio to know what makes him an authority, made some suppositions and conclusions that could be argued with. There are some more critical seerah analyses in Arabic, some using the criterion of hadeeth scholars i.e. only using verifiable reports and several translations not mentioned at all. He points to the perrenialist Martin Lings' work and leaves out several other notable works by Muslims. The benefit of this discussion was debatable and leaves something to be desired. Prof. Joel Haywood is easy to contact and converted to Islam. See his interview with Blogging Theology Paul Williams.

[@AhmirNawaz]

Salaam brother and thank you for your concerns. As for my bio, I’m a historian and teacher by profession. I also teach the Islamic studies having gain ijazas in Aqidah, fiqh, and Seerah. I have a passion for the Seerah and teach it whenever I can. As an historian I try to make people think and engage with texts and events. To make them think outside the box and approach subjects from various angles. History is a representation of humankind and is not a two dimensional story. Rather it a record of a living, breathing time that lived in its own context and state that is not the same as we live today. To totally understand what happened in the past, historians must engage using various disciplines. They must also understand the mindset of the author and the audience it was written for. Thus we find that the seerah is not a mere story. Rather it was an attempt to put into chronological order various events that had happened in the life of the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him. Writers from that early period didn’t have the luxury to put in paper their own criticism. That was discussed in study circles by the academics and as such the seerah was not written for the everyday man. No book from the past was for the everyday man. That is why we have glosses of all major works. The mistake people make is to approach seerah like it’s a story which they can understand instantly. What I am pointing out in this discussion is that if we take the seerah literally as a story without any explanations then we will find ourselves confused. Events sometimes don’t make sense or go against the grain of what we have always been taught from other sources etc. The question I am asking the common man is, “how would you go about interpreting the seerah?” How would you explain events correctly without the prerequisite tools needed? This is the job of the ulema and historians. Both need each other and will not do a complete job if they are not versed in the each others science. Stories in the seerah need to be unpacked both islamicaly and historically, and you can see both sets of scholars make some mistakes due to a lack of deep knowledge in the two sciences combined. There are also a lot of cut and paste jobs which can easily prove my points. Also, traditionally the seerah was not as stringently authenticated as Hadith and as such there are weaknesses in many stories. I am merely pointing out that today more than ever the seerah is open to criticism from outside the Muslim world so we need to think about how we are to teach it knowing our audience will latch onto every point. Sadly, I have seen bad responses from our ulema as they don’t have the subsequent historical grounding to contextualise their responses. This situation will change over time as each new challenge has created a new generation of teachers, intellectuals that have risen to the challenge and addressed all attacks against Islam. I hope you understand where I am coming from in the video better now.

[@salahdin6382]

Now I see , that Saudis funded Quran translation have changed the original and removed the second coming of Eessa a s by changing the tashkeel in sura Zukhraf from عَلَمَ السّاعہ to عِلمُ السّاعہ And سائحون from travelers to those who fast .

[@mohammedhanif6780]

​@AhmirNawaz Where do you teach and form which scholars do you have ijazas?

[@zoumanaalmamycoulibaly8547]

The one problem (of many) of his way of disregarding certain seerah narratives or countering them with more modern times explainations / understandings is that it will open the door to many offering their own 'version' of the seerah and thus becoming like the historic tales present in every culture. (ancient) Scholars have done their best to offer the most authentic version of the life of the prophet, thus preserving much the sunnah it contains. Seerah is NOT JUST HISTORY, it's a source for Shari'ah and thus has been currated from much of the fake stories attributed to the life of the prophet (s.a.w). His views of the traditional work of seerah scholars is very simplist and reductionist to the least.

[@Historyun]

The Seerah is not a source of Shariah in any school of Islamic Jurisprudence, furthermore it is well known that Historians in general are held to be liars, Imam Maalik went as far as calling Ibn Ishaaq (the greatest Seerah historian) a DAJJAL. Please review your reading and understanding of Seerah InshaaAllah, you may be referring to the principles Hadith rather than actual Seerah (which is replete with unfounded accounts and unverified reports). We do not derive religion from Seerah therefore it is and has always been open for criticism and scrutiny by scholars and laymen alike. Barakallahu Feekum

[@zoumanaalmamycoulibaly8547]

@HISTORYUN again, I disagree with this reductionist view of the seerah. Seerah sources are mostly intertwined / entangled with the sources of the sunnah (and thus shariah). And just like any other Islamic field some narrations are more authentic than other, and some others are complete fabrications. Books of seerah might choose to emphasize of some aspects of the life of the prophet (saw) while others chose other aspects. However reducing it to embellished history / tales and disregarding parts of it (though authentic) because the modern society might find it controversial is very dangerous practice

[@istiaqueahmed430]

​@@HistoryunSeerah is the important guideline to understand the implementation of shariah. In that case the seerah is important in Islamic Shariah. Not only ibn ishaq,you will find many criticism about Imam abu hanifa from different teechers of Hadith. So, are those criticisms degraded imam abu haifa? No,the Usul or yardstick to measure the authenticity of an Imam or Historian doesn’t simply depend on one man's testimony. The explanation of imam Malik's statement is given in books of jarah/tadil by many scholars. So don't just criticise Seerah by western Historical critical method. Their critical method shouldn’t be necessarily sound and accurate.

[@QA8971]

Thanks for this video and thanks to guest who recommended these books I read cealed nectar and i didn't find it equal to the magnitude of seerah

[@arabcultureandislamicstudi4395]

Ustadh mentioned that sirah is not a science but he has committed a mistake here coz we have number of sirah scholars in Urdu language who have claimed that the sirah is a science and they have justified by their writings .

[@Historyun]

Which principles and framework determine this 'science' and what are the schools of thought in Seerah. Awaiting your response.

[@arabcultureandislamicstudi4395]

The principles or methodology that were devised by early sirah writers Ibn ishaq ,ibn Hisham ,waqidi ,ibn sad determine this Science .....and we don't have established schools of thought in sirah like we in other religious sciences.yet we have Approaches to sirah genre viz Historical, Traditional, Juristic and many more . Regards

[@Historyun]

​​@@arabcultureandislamicstudi4395that is objectively false. They did not decide any system or principles which is why imams such as Malik called Ibn Ishaaq a DAJJAL. every single one of the individuals you named was outrightly rejected by the Muhaddithoon as unreliable and abandoned "matrook". The Akhbariyoon are infamous for their lack of standards, rigour and structure. They didn't craft any systematic order for SIRAH. Ibn Khaldun was the one who attempted to do so but he arrived in the 13th century, long afterwards. You should do more reading into this topic, there is a lot of information out there

[@arabcultureandislamicstudi4395]

@@Historyun the thing u mentioned about the jarrah done by the muhadithoon to Ibn ishaq was in the field of Hadith not in the field of sirah .He is considered as Imam in Sirah .You might find it peculiar that on the one hand muhadithoon have criticized the founding fathers of sirah in Hadith but when it come to sirah they are Imams .

[@arabcultureandislamicstudi4395]

@@HistoryunAnd u know why they criticized them it was all because sirah scholars have their own way or we can say methodology of Collective isnad and Not mentioning their Sheikh (Tadlis ) ....so that they were criticized....why they did this ....again ...it is order of the day ... constructing the life of prophet Muhammad (saw) from daheef hadith when it is related to the manaqib,Khasias ,fadhail is accepted by the majority of scholars .

[@maxathicalou6031]

Can you put your intro bg music on your description? You should do that in every video. Thanks.

[@amanitarboush6983]

For all those people who say this guy is too western or has a problem with the age of Aisha and her marriage. I don’t think you have understood what he said. Here is a link to his discussion on the why the Prophet peace be upon married a child. He is correct and no one has answered it as convincingly as he has in the link below kzbin.info/www/bejne/apfPgWune7Z5qLcsi=H91QKUIo1hZMeJp0

[@MohamedShou]

This was very good but he should also know 100s of scholars for over thousand years have analysed the Seerah stories not just western academics. I’m always wary of people that come out of western academics when it comes to history because it is literally taught from a secular liberal stand point. And some Muslims academics unfortunately that have come out of the western universities will have secular liberal biases without releasing and try to revise, reform or “transform” Islam to something that it never was

[@stephenconnolly1830]

This is a typically complacent comment from a traditionalist Muslim. Well, despite all those scholars over all those centuries the Sirah of ibn Ishaq and the many derivatives, like Martin Ling's, are riddled with errors, many of which have not been noticed by those self same past generations. For example, the story of Bani Qurayza was only deconstructed as a fabrication in the peer reviewed literature for the first time by Walid Arafat in 1976 (JRAS, 2, pp100-107). Seek knowledge!

[@MohamedShou]

​@@stephenconnolly1830lmao 100s traditionalist scholars throughout the centuries know that Ibn Ishaq isn't 100% authentic 🤦🏾‍♂️😂 which classical Islamic scholar EVER said Ibn Ishaq's writing down of the life of prophet Muhammad was all 100% authentic? Bro please be quiet

[@mt000mp]

background intro music please?

[@olivermiles6416]

Raises the question what authorities can we study with then? Who teaches seerah properly in English (understood that is part of the problem itself)? Where are the answers to controversies or misreadings in the seerah like the age of Aisha RA or who the first Muslim was etc?

[@Historyun]

The genre is not as closely guarded as Hadith, Tafseer or Fiqh however it is best to read widely and do comparative studies in order to identify the varying versions and familiarise yourself with what is disputed and what is generally accepted. There are no "right" ways to teach or learn per se, it's all subjective for the most part. However, reading a basic text or listening to a lecture series is more than sufficient and will be just as beneficial for most readers. Researchers need to apply more critical means and wider study to get to the underlying points. Barakallahu Feekum

[@BK_Beloved]

Asalamu Alaykum brother. I can tell you and the brother you conversated with are serious students of Knowledge. I am also trying to embark on the same Journey. Another interesting side point is, that in hadith sciences they criticsed the report (الخبر) as well if they believed the report has weakness therein (hidden defects) or if the report went against reasoning, or known historical facts. May Allah give us all success.

[@Historyun]

Wa Aleikum Salam brother, may Allah grant you that which you are desirous of. You are correct, the Sirah is not subjected to the same level of scrutiny or rigor as the Hadith, if it were then most of the reports would have been rejected and nullified as fabrications and weak accounts. This is well known among the Muhaddithoon and widely accepted among the students of knowledge.

[@BK_Beloved]

@@teemadarif8243 I never said there werent brother. I understand as well.

[@evilmelez]

> Let me *jump from* one obvious fabrication of one CengizHan story (that everybody knows its a lie) then *compare* this to the narrations of hadiths (age etc...) then *to support this* you bring one writers personal *choice of chronology* of the hadith of Varaka bin nawfel. > Read different seerahs ( we know we have to read different seerahs bro) *to tackle kaffir Liberal Secular Modern questions* Please tell me how these arguments can even tackle whatever you trying to accomplish? This guy is all over the place... You dont tackle secular liberal questions with seerahs when they ask about age for example.

[@Historyun]

No one mentioned secular liberalism. this is not a channel that addresses such concerns.

[@evilmelez]

​@@Historyun He spoke about ''modern day'' and thats clear enough. young ones are effected by them and thats why new questions risen in the first place. you may not address it in your channel but he sure did. modern world and the questions they brought is shaped and even defined by them in the first place. young ones will speak like liberal christians when they face them because they dont know how to engage with them. a man that knows the harm munafiqs could and have caused this Ummah would have spoken more carefully... ''it doesnt feel right'' like words mixed with ''modern day questions'' is open buffet for non-muslims and even a landmine for muslims with weak creed (that we see more and more). every book first defines what ''modern'' is before proceeding to the next because its a dangerous ground. you read Seerah(s) to find out if Rasulullah (saw) is truthful person or if he is a genuine prophet etc... but age of a person? and the feeling of whats right or wrong....

[@hudjohns6371]

Someone please explain to me a few examples of why Ar-Raheeq ul-makhtum.. and why its not the best book to read..?

[@Historyun]

It contains weak narrations like 95% of books written on the Seerah. It's still a great resource and closer to the level required for most readers. The Ustadh is talking from the perspective of a researcher and someone who wants more specialised material to work with. Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with Sealed Nectar or Moon Split if you just want a general overview and basic exposure to Seerah Barakallahu Feekum

[@hudjohns6371]

@HISTORYUN jazakallah khairun akhi ... I appreciate it.

[@avantgard3196]

Very nice, good and though provoking Video need more of this and it really motivated me.

[@sadeekahsaban162]

Agency oh sorry age of Ali (ra) when he embraced Islam?

[@Historyun]

Great example, however a marriage is transactional (and is treated as such in the books of Jurisprudence) whereas personal acts of devotion are not contractual but entirely voluntary and personal. According to the prevalent narrative, Ali was requested to seek permission from his father to which he answered "did Allah seek his permission to create me?"

[@joefilter2923]

At least in the first 12 minutes, there was no examples of any reason for skepticism. Why wait so long why put your viewers into the position of waiting and waiting?

[@uwaisseedat7072]

well the point of aisha is invalid we know from hadeeth not seerah hadeeth ( it is recorded in bukhari haeeth 5134 the age of Aisha) her age range so there is no need to justify that. It is part of faith to believe that and any doubt around it is henceforth baseless. Seccondly history around revelation and other important matters during the prophets life has been recorded in hadeeth so in that sense we are very secure only after that can we apply "rigor" even though such rigor is dated 1400 years after his death hence is still speculative( to clarify half of the point I made I have seen you wholeheartedly agree but the guests point about aisha felt as a huge slight and a historic blunder). I find one great lecture series is prophetic dynasty 1 and 2 specifically in regards to Muhammed (S.A.W) the lecturer prounnounces this not as a seerah series but an overview of the different characteristics of the prophet which gives us greater insight in him outside of specific even but more as a general understanding of his noble characteristics to emulate.

[@amanitarboush6983]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/apfPgWune7Z5qLcsi=GQye_UE4jK7s574u

[@olivermiles6416]

A thought provoking video, Barakallah feek.

[@Historyun]

JazakallAhu Khayran

[@Historyun]

Join our Book Club on Telegram for more information t.me/AdabBookClub

[@iq-ride9329]

Where did you find this idiot? He wants to study the messenger through the eyes of a Westerner.

[@daudhusein121]

barnaby if he really loved ResuluLlah s.a.w.s will accept him as Messenger of Allah s.a.w.s and become muslim with the will of Allah(in sha’Allah he did it). I think that we have a lot of books in the arabic language about Sirah ect... the only problem is that we have few books in english and in the other eu languages about these topic....(translations of the original books, ect)

[@MrRiz157]

History provides one lens through which we can perceive the truth, but it's not the sole avenue to comprehending the complete reality of the seerah. Merely being a historian doesn't guarantee a deep understanding; if it did, all historians would have arrived at the same truth. Get the basics right. For this We sent one of your own people as a Messenger reciting Our revelations to you, purifying you, teaching you the Book and wisdom, and teaching you what you didn't know. Valid point teach the seerah throughly in every home.

[@amanitarboush6983]

People think the Ustadhs views are strange or he has a problem with the age of Aisha. The Ustadh is classically trained as well as western educated Here is a link to a video Ustadh made about why Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him married a 9 year old girl. He doesn’t say there is a problem with the age rather he gives an eloquent argument in support of it. He is right no one has answered this question the right way kzbin.info/www/bejne/apfPgWune7Z5qLcsi=6UxWwfzc0TWltWoO

[@abdulazeem6693]

What's the best book in English for Seerah 😮 sealed nector and Martin lings are two that get promoted a lot in the west

[@ninaaden8338]

Dr Yasir Qadhi's seerah is great.

[@khairt1731]

The author of the Sealed Nectar won the award for the best Seerah out of hundrends of Authors during the 70s. Hes also the teacher of Shaykh Yasir Qadhi. Yasir Qadhi lived in Medina for over 10 years studying in Medina.

[@faay8912]

Read them they are good I recommend them definitely and they have changed my life

[@khairt1731]

16:42 Biological, yes. BUT He s.a.w was the prophet and Allah blessed him with chileren. Same with Maryam A.S.

[@Historyun]

Weren't Ibrahim and Zakariyya also prophets? Why then did they require miracles in order to be granted children? Being a prophet alone is no guarantee of having offspring. Furthermore, Prophet Muhammad ﷺ wasn't granted make inheritors. Allah does as He pleases

[@khairt1731]

@@Historyun Thats the point. We believe in miracles. It doesnt mean she wasnt 40 years old. Look at Zayd ibn Haritha, he married the foster mother of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w and she was a very old woman and gave birth to Usama ibn Zayd. Some of the sahabas were granted mini miracles.

[@khairt1731]

@@Historyun this just reminds me. We have a brother here in my city hes in his early 40s, been married for almost 20 years. His wife couldnt get pregnant this whole time and now she gave birth to a son. Alhamdulilah

[@Historyun]

@@khairt1731 Let us follow your logic. If the prophet Muhammad ﷺ was granted children with Khadijah in her later years (7 of them) then why was this 'miracle' withheld from a much younger Aishah? In fact, should we not expect for ALL the prophet Muhammad's ﷺ wives to also get this miracle? Surely, if any of his wives was more in need of such a miracle, it would be the only virgin wife who had no prior children and was his most beloved. Evidently, your logic doesn't follow.

[@Historyun]

@@khairt1731 AlhamdulillAh. Allah grants and withholds as He wishes. May Allah bless their child and make it a coolness of the parents' eyes

[@muslimalmumin1]

So glad this video was made

[@habib.9383]

This Sheikh is biased toward Imam Abu Hanifa

[@rashidrahman9673]

Aisha siddiqua, radhiana anha, was 16 years when she got engaged, married at 19 years, someone, sometime,took 10 years of her age, however when we annalise history, we realised,they got her age wrong. "

[@ashsharp1985]

Wahabis justifying pedophilia. Can you imagine.

[@SamadHerb]

I love how Muslims pick and choose what they want to believe but when others do it they complain 😂😂😂😂

[@agungsantosa7525]

The heck is wrong with you

[@alqawi3874]

HMMM PRETTY AMAZING AMIR BOTHER THAT MANY BOOKS YOU CAN ( ANNALS RECOMMEND AND HAVE READ AND HOPEFULLY ACTED UPON AND ACTING UPON ) did you no i think it took our chaifate umar r.a mpbuh took i think 7 or 12 years just to UNDERSTAND 1chapter off the quran... ❤ So hearing what im hearing and looking at your age.. im v v v surprised you UNDERSTAND and hopefully (act upon) what you have read saw etc. M.a mashallah GUYS 😊

[@jageerdarjag3883]

Saying that today your books are out in the west, tells half of the story already. We need to now wear a western lens to analyze our history? So history of Egyptians must be told by western Egyptologists for it to be accepted, Egyptians telling it "must" be biased.

[@moriarty16]

Is this required now? Is this discussion needed for these times?

[@joejr.cocker9997]

When you loosing, guess what, everything is wrong

[@yaqub_2.0]

Jazakallahu khair!

[@AbPrive-cu4rx]

Like he himself said in the beginning about intuition, "sometimes you have a feeling that something doesn't sound right or feel right" so you don't have to analyze it further. That's what I had with Amir from the beginning. many things that he claims go against all 3 religions. Prophet Zakariya (PBUH) with his barren wife Surah Maryam 19:4-6. You sound close to Kufr (I am not saying you are) but you are borderline. Also, there is no mention from Aisha (PBUH) that she regretted or didn't want to be with prophet Muhammed (PBUH) while she is the number one by far who narrated so many Hadith's. My advice to the people, be careful with Amir. You barely speak Arabic let alone understand it. Go debate a real Islamic scholar about this matter

[@AhmirNawaz]

Dear beloved, I have not replied to anyone here but I saw your message and this time I thought I should reply to your grave error. This is a message to you as much as it is for everyone else who jumped several guns in one go and rubbished what I said. Firstly how did you join what I am saying with Zakariya? You have made your own logic here and it’s called: false equivalence as what applies to A doesn’t necessarily apply to B, as the circumstances are different, and drawing the same conclusion for B is not correct in this case. You cannot Willy nilly pull opinions out of your pocket and apply them as you see fit without taking into account all factors. This is called “hasty generalisation” in logic and leads to broad claims that conclude to nothing. As for my “intuition” which everyone seems to be having a problem with, let’s take a look at this “intuition” Let’s put it into real World example: Historical Analysis: • Claim: “This ancient artifact was created using a technology that wasn’t believed to exist at that time.” • Intuition Challenge: A historian or archaeologist with extensive knowledge of the era might question this claim if it contradicts established historical evidence and technological understanding. Their intuition would guide them to consider alternative explanations or re-evaluate the artifact’s provenance. 5. Financial Forecasting: • Claim: “The stock market will see unprecedented growth next quarter based on current economic indicators.” • Intuition Challenge: A seasoned financial analyst might be wary if they know that underlying economic indicators are not fully capturing risks or that external factors (e.g., geopolitical events) could negatively impact the market. Their intuition suggests that the forecast might be overly optimistic. In each case, intuition derived from experience helps individuals critically assess claims and identify potential discrepancies or overlooked factors. So, when I read history my experience often tells me what is possible or not and why it’s possible or not and further critical evaluation and analysis confirms or rejects what I thought. Which begs me to ask a question to you: Where did you assume again that I was saying just because something “doesn’t feel right you don’t have to analyse further” My use of intuition was meant to suggest that further analysis is warranted because something doesn’t quite add up. It wasn’t meant to dismiss the need for additional scrutiny. By misrepresenting my position, you’ve committed a Straw Man Fallacy, where you have distorted my point. Let’s have a look at a further intuition I have which leads me to believe it’s not true. The famous Battle of Mut’a had 3000 Muslim soldier in its ranks against how many romans?? Let’s see what the sources say: One of the most commonly cited figures in traditional Islamic sources is around 100,000 Roman troops!!! For example: 1. Al-Tabari and Ibn Ishaq, both early Muslim historians, report that the Roman army was about 100,000 strong, including auxiliaries from allied Arab Christian tribes. 2. Al-Waqidi, another early historian, also mentions a similar figure, suggesting the Romans had an overwhelming numerical advantage over the much smaller Muslim force. Wow. The whole Roman Army at its height was 300,000 strong. This number was never used to fight even the world foremost superpower “the Persians” but Constantinople had to dispatch its entire army from across the Roman world at a colossal, astronomical expense just to fight 3000 Arabs from the desert!!! Would any historian believe this exaggerated story? No dear believed not even Muslim historians would believe this gross exaggeration. For historians it’s almost predictable where an exaggeration will occur. As for the two weight sources, they never claim to be accurate. They only cataloged all reports for referencing, wether truth or not. Just because it’s in Tabari it doesn’t mean it’s true! Another argument that is pure nonsense is the argument that the Prophet ‎ﷺ was on the verse of committing suicide. This has been pulled straight from Bukhari and added into seerah books. (Remember when I said a lot of Seerah teaching is just cut and paste) As anyone who has studied aqidah will know that this is a ridiculous claim. Their aqidah intuition would kick in and upon analysis they would realise that this is not the words of the Hadith but Imam Zuhri has added his own words into the last line of the Hadith which are separate from the Hadith but due to the poor analysis of even respected scholars they add this false story into the seerah. Go and open Bukhari and take a look dear brother. You made a huge blunder when you said I sound close to kufr. Wow. Simply wow. What you have done is almost kick me out of the religion based on your own lack of analysis. Which is the very thing I am talking about that needs to be done. So in effect these are your errors: First, jumping to conclusions without fully examining the evidence, Second, equating A with B in this context is a false equivalence, as A doesn’t necessarily imply B. Additionally, the straw man fallacy has distorted my argument, and an ad hominem approach has unfairly dismissed my stance. Not bad, not bad 👋. You are doing really well. Dare I say more. A more thoughtful and accurate examination of my actual points would have lead to a more accurate assessment and it wouldn’t have been so off the mark. Still Let’s continue…. Aisha (رضي الله عنها) never complained about this as you never came across a Hadith? Sir may I enquire as to what your Islamic credentials are as someone who can claim to have read every single Hadith? The logical fallacy you have made now is called: the “Argument from Ignorance”. This fallacy occurs when someone asserts that a proposition is false because it hasn’t been proven true, or vice versa. Essentially, just because they haven’t seen evidence for a claim doesn’t mean the claim is false; it simply means the evidence hasn’t been encountered or presented yet. However I have to agree that there is no evidence. So why do call your argument. The argument from ignorance? It’s because you have not studied every Hadith there is and that’s the reason why, doesn’t matter if it’s out there or not. Again I never claimed what you are assuming. Once again your lack of proper analysis has drawn you to the wrong conclusions. I simply stated that most religiosity educated teachers have never given reason to why this “type” of marriage took place. An anthropological and sociology would give a beautiful answer to how this is correct. I will send you a link to an old video I made with the “correct answer” as to why this type of marriage happened. Please watch this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/apfPgWune7Z5qLcsi=1j1eZHk5sRR-rm0R Titled “Why the Prophet ‎ﷺ married a very young Aisha (رضي الله عنها) The logical fallacy you made here are two: “Ad Hominem” and “Appeal to Authority.” • Ad Hominem: This occurs when someone attacks the person making the argument rather than addressing the argument itself. In this case, dismissing you based on your perceived lack of expertise rather than engaging with your actual points. • Appeal to Authority: This happens when someone suggests that their own authority or lack thereof should be the deciding factor in a debate, rather than the merits of the argument itself. So you are the authoritative expert now who is able to rubbish all of my work and tell everyone to avoid me!! Dear brother, what more can I say? You made a catalogue of errors. Every point you made was wrong. This is why I replied to you and to further silence anyone else who things he can be a have a go hero, let me add some more details. The age of Our lady Khadijah(رضي الله عنها) is disputed. Just because you never hear about it doesn’t change the facts. It’s apparent you cannot even put a logical argument together. Every point I highlighted in the discussion comes with its own proofs and references. This podcast was not for the layman. It was between two historians who both understand what was implied and being said and could “read between the lines” For those who have a hard time stomaching what was said, this is your problem. If you didn’t do your religious, historical, anthropological, social studies homework in school, then don’t accuse those who discuss points as ignorant. Rather concede to your own ignorance and take up the book and study! And only Allah ‎ﷻ gives success.

[@RD-wn1us]

Brother so scared of Western academics 😂. May Allah guide him. Be proud that the prophet married and taught an inquisitive 9 year old who conveyed to us so many things that we know of today

[@derrickjohnson9313]

The age of Aisha as presently conveyed should always be a problem for the Ummah The brother definitely makes an excellent point on that Also there are some excellent narratives regarding this issue that are much more truthful and accurate then the present one

[@Hermann329]

It hasn't been until the last century

[@aswadexodus8230]

University is the worst place to analyse and why analyse? This happened to the people of the books.

[@phoenixknight8837]

Barakallahu feekum.

[@MrTisback]

He comes across as a bit full of himself especially for someone who can’t properly quote surat Iqra

[@yassir2824]

This orientalist perrenialist BS is annoying. Quran and Sunnah. That's it. What is this other crap

[@Imaknun]

With all due respect brother i dont think this particular guest has any credibility whatsoever in refuting a book like “the sealed nectar” there is absolutely no evidential substances in any of his so called “ thoughts in seerah”. What exactly is his scholarly credibility and authenticity in offering such misguided ‘opinions’. I love your videos but in this case i think you could have chosen a better guest. You cannot call yourself a ‘sheikh’ just because you have a degree in history and you answer questions online pertaining islam. Most of which are filled with his own personal ‘opinions’

[@traveller319]

So Hard English. 😅

[@drbumper488]

As salaam alay Kum I have to be honest and just. The best seerah online in pdf or video format, is the deep 100+ episodes by yasir qadhi. I think it’s equivalent to a doctorate or degree 📜 level work. I know he is controversial but he whent back to old genuine knowledge and books. He brought in-depth examples and proofs from history and Hadith with quranic revelation. It really changed my perspective of life and Islam. May Allah almighty reward him for this with good Ameen.

[@Historyun]

Wa Aleikum Salam. Justice is mandatory, no one can deny Dr Yasir Qadhi's contribution towards Seerah at all

[@mohamedmouallem9721]

This reminds of the seerah series recently done by sapience institute with brother Mohamed hijab where he uses only sahih hadiths and external ‘secular’ sources to respond to orientalists