Vanny is Vanessa. This isn't a debate.

[@3DOM_]

I usually come into these videos with some hesitancy but I think the idea that Vanessa is being manipulated into thinking she had Elizabeth’s past is perfect. It explains the connection between the two of them, it works towards Afton’s presumed goal of bringing back his family and most importantly it makes sense without having to rely on logical leaps like robot people. I don’t hate robot people as an idea in theories personally as the franchise clearly established it as a thing but whenever it’s used to explain things it just feels forced. You can make any narrative make sense if you eliminate the possibility of character death by saying they’re a robot but this theory not only side steps that device but makes every conclusion feel intended by the developers.

[@diebelladie]

Yeah, it also fleshes out more of Afton's personality is just not "He's the killer who went mad because of her daughter / son's death (depending of who you think died first) but shows that he was a terrible person BEFORE Elizabeth's death, manipulating her to get more custody of her and that got his ex wife to off herself

[@UltraCenterHQ]

The fact FNAF is so confusing that people start arguing about this. This is like that time when people were arguing if Springtrap was Michael or William

[@Khanmanlol]

I almost think that Scott Cawthon or anyone else in charge of FNAF should come forward explaining everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) about the lore of FNAF, especially the parts that are (or even could potentially be) ambiguous and up for debate (like whether or not Vanessa and Vanny are one-in-the-same). Debates and theorycrafting are fun, but when no one can agree on ANYTHING, it's time for some solid answers.

[@you_gullible_fucc]

I miss those times though. Sure even back then some of the theories felt like a stretch, but not to the extent that they are today. And having theories confirmed back then felt fun and interesting, now I just go "really? That's the path the story wanted to take?"

[@eternallylearning2811]

And the fact they just instantly go with the evil moon thing that ticks me off or there's so little theorys painting the new two puppet animatronics in a good light but I suppose I'm bias on this front I don't like how people are so quickly to put the evil label on moon even the tales of the pizzaplex version of things stile has a way out of moon being evil with moon putting on an act.

[@MrPalhomPlays]

Yeah, of course it was Michael, always been, can't believe I trusted the whole Willtrap theories...

[@DefinitelynotMedjed]

​@@MrPalhomPlaysi hope you are joking

[@tommyjenkins6615]

“I will put you back together” = “I will rebuild my family in proxy through mind control, psychological abuse, and old fashioned robotic engineering.”

[@acolbioreborn]

With the Vanny meter mechanic from the unused Survival Mode, Vanessa's npc LITERALLY gets replaced by Vanny's when the meter fills. That's indeed a coincidence or an attempt from Steel Wool to confuse us so we never find out the truth: She's Elizabeth indeed, everyone in this game is.

[@Moved506]

OOPS ALL ELIZABETH!

[@MattTOB618]

@HorrorLover There's no actual animation; she just walks to a certain point on the map, then her model is swapped to Vanny.

[@acolbioreborn]

@@MattTOB618 Yep. Also, it's better to use an old version if you want the cut content to work better (most of it was removed from 1.05 on)

[@GhostRose6500]

I don’t think Steel Wool is trying to fool us, because that’s not the point of Fnaf lore. When Scott made the first 3 games there were tiny pieces of lore everywhere, but it was right, and we could make a definitive timeline by making connections and only few stretches. There was definitely a massive retcon somewhere, but when Scott released Fnaf 4 many things were thrown side ways, but he didn’t do it to go “This is this and this is that and that is this so you’re all wrong about this hahaha” we didn’t even have all the answers back then, and later on we got them. Security Breach had a similar outcome so it may have a similar solution: the dlcs or new games will come out and enough things will be solved.

[@omniscienttoast9616]

@@GhostRose6500 They were making a joke when they said that Steel Wool is trying to fool us

[@arisien7296]

Whenever I think about FNAF theories I always try to think to myself 'What makes for a better story?' And you've convinced me on this. It makes no narrative sense to have Help Wanted set up this mind control plot only bring in robot people or twin sisters in Security Breach.

[@HyperDroid]

The thing is, EVERYTHING points to Vanessa being Vanny / one in the same, THAT in itself was meant to be the "big twist" for causal and new players of the game, and for the rest of us it was the big theory everyone had prior to the release that turned out to be true! I agree, I think her being on the roof was just representing that she wasn't freed in that ending so she's still "attached" to the mall or glitch or whatever, as there is no reason for the twin Vanessa to watch Vanny die as she herself is burning to a crisp... and also the VR Sisters turned out to be a joke about the VR Chica skin from FNAF AR, if you look closer at the Fury's Rage image they both actually have beaks with lipstick on the end of it, not only is it a different shade to their skin tone right next to it, but that's why the bottom of their faces have a sudden sharp end that pokes outwards from the VR and you can see the line from where their chins should be that creates a curve to the VR honestly this all reminds me of the old theory that "Scraptrap isn't actually William because he looks different to Springtrap"

[@XD-yn6hb]

No, Vanessa just lost all will to live when Vanny died

[@siramaytheshowgundragon]

Couldent agree more, in a world where everyone over thinks and overanalyzes FNAF and belives matpats world as canon FNAF lore you are the one light of hope

[@Moved506]

I honestly feel like he just really wants to have robot kids in the game because he can't handle having new characters unrelated to old ones.

[@michaelraymon111]

@@Moved506 he said he dislikes characters coming back.

[@waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

matpat doesnt even think vanessa and vanny are different people dude fuhnaff does lol

[@Nightwalker065]

@@Moved506 that's what I think

[@funnygamer361]

Matpat is not the one to blame here, it's the people that treat his theories as canon even though he himself said it is just a theory

[@cosmicbreath]

I commented on this on a similar video. I understand why people would want Vanny and Vanessa to be different people. The execution of the Vanny=Vanessa reveal is an unsatisfying conclusion to a mystery the game built up. Security Breach with its messy unfinished narrative tries to make Vanny's identity a big point of anticipation and suspense (through AR, the tapes in SB, and the Rooftop ending), but then also turns around and has Freddy kill the narrative flow, suspense, and rising action with "Vanny = Vanessa + Bunny." It's too obvious to be satisfying from a narrative standpoint. Because of how FNAF storytelling has always been, the very ham-fisted telling (not showing, outright breaking #1 rule of storytelling) that Vanny is Vanessa is unsatisfying for people. So I get why people would want a more satisfying end to the anticipation the game had built up and want to make something more out of what we got. If you want my personal opinion, I think the confusing execution of the rooftop ending was a troll move from the developers while they look on and laugh at us.

[@siresquawks]

I get it.

[@siramaytheshowgundragon]

Also people shipped vanny and the guard so some people really wanted them to be different because now that ship is selfsest

[@gaminganimators7000]

@@siramaytheshowgundragon isn't that just masturbation?

[@disasterducky]

@@siramaytheshowgundragon clearly you have no idea about Tumblr and what happened with The Onceler from The Lorax (animated movie, not the book)

[@GianniLeonhart]

Thank you for putting into words my feelings about Vanny=Vanessa, you explained it perfectly: "It's too obvious to be satisfying from a narrative standpoint"

[@crowkingv6410]

The choice to not make Vanessa appear like a spirit/ghost in the fire escape ending is so weird if that's what they intended. Like a slightly opaque, yellowish color pallet would not be that hard to come up with if it was that simple lol.

[@siresquawks]

Ok but why doesn’t she leave then? The whole point of that ending was so Gregory could leave through the fire escape on the roof, and he does so. It’s a fire escape, meant to help you escape a building on fire, and Vanessa just watched and doesn’t leave. We only have a shot of her burning. Plus steel wool’s never shown a ghost before and Scott’s never shown one that wasn’t a black and white sprite or the weird Vengful Spirit Easter egg.

[@crowkingv6410]

@Sire Squawks I agree completely. I never thought Vanny was a robot/second Vanessa, but Vanny being a ghost is not well visually depicted by in universe standards or even pop culture standards. It may be their first time making ghosts (or embodiemnets of a digitally locked away consciousness) but Vanessa's fully colorized body is a poor way to communicate that. Given the weak communication of the idea as well as the dramatic beat of Gregory pulling off the mask as the camera pans up to see Vanessa before fading to black, it's easy to understand why people would make that conclusion. Its a weird miscommunication that seems weirdly intentional, but is clearly accidental. It's like painting an apple purple and leaving people wonder if it's a plum you know?

[@guarana-suquinho]

Ghost in FNaF do not look like ghost.

[@FunnestFoxxi]

@@guarana-suquinho how do you know that?

[@guarana-suquinho]

@@FunnestFoxxi Books, In the fourth Closet grafich novel the missing children look normal, in the New Kid Cassidy looks normal, in the Man of the Room 1080 Andrew looks normal, the only times(that I remember) which they look like ghost is: FNaF 1,2 and 3 minigames, which feature Charlie diering from crying too much, and Into the Pitch, which is probably a dream and feature that Spring Bonnie.

[@CrabLegsWinston]

I think Vanessa and Vannys identities are pretty obvious, they're clearly Funtime Foxy!

[@phari4820]

I love how much this community likes to overcomplicate an already convoluted franchise

[@McGeeMcGeeMcGee-g7w]

i wonder if people over complicate BECAUSE its convoluted...

[@titan7789]

And I think you're right on the brainwashing part. We could take this a bit further and say that Gregory is brainwashed too,but not fully. He was brainwashed,eventually to be BV reborn. Which is why he lives on the streets(possibly hinting no recollection of his past) and why someone looks like him in the Missing residents newspapers(meaning someone had to report him missing first,right?) And also why Vanny doesn't kill him in the Ruin DLC,but he is presumably trapped(also assuming that it's not a trap for the DLC girl) But that's just a hypothesis. Gregory could've just been a runaway kid,idk.

[@siresquawks]

This *almost* made it as a theory video, but I wasn’t confident in the evidence enough to produce it. But this was something I considered.

[@titan7789]

@@siresquawks oh lol,but i can see why you didn't include the theory here,although it's probably good for further speculation on this topic if someone can find more proof.

[@blanktester]

I think you make some really compelling points. Vanessa in the fire escape ending is pretty much my only sticking point, and it's really more of a sticking point with Security Breach itself, not with your explanation. There's absolutely no indication in the ending that she's a ghost or spirit or anything other than her not moving, but I think that's just a failure of clear communication from Steel Wool. Vanessa being overridden is a especially compelling, though it's again something that's neither implied nor stated by the game because Steel Wool didn't put enough context in to make it make sense. Like you said, there's no way to know (currently) how or why she's being manipulated in this way by the psychologists, knowingly or unknowingly. Assuming you're completely right, my next question is how this connects with the actual activities of Fazbear LLC. Whoever is running Fazbear is making absolutely AWFUL decisions involving hiring, building location, investment, etc, unless their intended goal IS what we see in the underground with William being reconstructed (for whatever purpose). Why build over a sinkhole, or the old location? Why install a chamber down there for Willy's body? Why fire/kill all the staff and replace them with robots? Why manipulate Vanessa into being a mental clone of Elizabeth, a la Liquid Ocelot in Metal Gear Solid? All of those questions are easily answered if Fazbear's revival as an LLC is entirely for William's benefit and no one else, but we don't have any actual evidence of who they are or why they're doing all this dumb nonsense. I wish Steel Wool had been able to finish the game they wanted to make from the beginning.

[@princessmarlena1359]

Right?

[@loganbrony130]

Finally. Thank you. I kept saying they're the same person. Mat even went to her being a robot as well. The one thing people used to argue her being a robot is that she doesn't have any blood around her when Freddy pushes her to the ground. They all forgot that the line "I feel you are broken" is the replacement line for "I sense blood, you are injured" so the game can be more kid friendly. If they're not going to talk about blood, they're definitely not going to show blood. How could not even Mat Pat get that? It was so obvious. They keep forgetting about things that make it so obvious because they either can't see it or just don't want to think about it. This is the truth.

[@mrbigsauce9984]

FNAF brain rot is one hell of a drug

[@XD-yn6hb]

Also, Vanny’s missing knife

[@nottomiokagiyu9830]

You sure they'd change the lines? This coming from a series where people's eyes popped out their sockets when stuffed in animatronic suits or their entrails coming out of their spring lock suits? You can theorize as much as anyone else can and we'll never know the REAL truth until the devs say so.

[@loganbrony130]

People have already found cut voice lines, including the "I sense blood, you are injured" that was replaced by "I feel you are broken" to make the game more kid friendly. I believe they even said they wanted to make it possible for younger audiences to play the game, to. So, of course it's more kid friendly.

[@dredgengam4610]

Well.... I believe addresses these things. In some of his GT Lives he mentions how in some of his theories that he will leave certain things out that don't support his ideas and have other things implemented in to support his theories. Other times he admits to genuinely forgetting certain details, as long as his theories aren't too off course, he'll try to make sense of whatever pieces he can use. If you were in MatPat's position, swings and misses are bound to happen.

[@SallyGrim]

THANK YOU! I still can't believe this is controversial. Plus it gives Sun and Moon an additional purpose as an allegory to Vanessa and Vanny. Both Vanessa and Sun try to keep Gregory safe by keeping him in one place (Sun literally and Vanessa in lost and found) and they both fail due to their uncontrollable 'dark' half. I also still don't know why people think patient 46 is a child, and I'm yet to be convinced that they're anyone other than Afton possessing Vanessa.

[@siresquawks]

46 sadly does have enough merit. 46 is described as being too small for their chair, which Vanessa is described as being just right. 46 doesn’t understand big words like Objective of Subjective, and needs to be talked to it a more kid like manor in general. The therapists hesitate to tell them more graphic information, but are willing to do so a tad more easily for Vanessa, but that one’s a more subjective argument. Vanessa does search up “how to induce compliance in human subjects” implying Afton does have someone else under his control. 46 also has constant connections to the post-it room. They love sweets and the person who wrote those notes constantly draws candy and sweets. 46 is stated as liking darker environments away from the outdoors, just like the post-it room. Post-it person constantly draws 3 figures throughout the notes, implying (by my deduction) themself, Vanessa/Vanny, and Afton. 46 is clearly under Afton’s influence and is manipulating someone else who isn’t them according to the therapist, and post-it kid says stuff like “I can feel it” implying the Afton virus in their mind. Most importantly, post-it person will constantly write a question or phrase and respond to it. Often in the same handwriting. “Why is I?” “You are {illegible} Family”, “Hide” “No Hide”, “Stop” “Go”, “Hello :)” “Goodbye :(“, and those are just what I remember off the top of my head from my video on 46. Why that’s important is 46’s most defining trait is how they constantly talk to themself. Obviously if they are post-it person they would seemingly be a child based on the poor handwriting and grammar.

[@SallyGrim]

@@siresquawks Thanks for the walkthrough for 46, I appreciate it. I can think of rebuttals for the stuff in the therapy recordings, but I can't figure out any narratively satisfying reason for the 'Charlie door' sticky note room. So I'm happy with a theory that gives the room some reason to exist so prominently in the game.

[@br2891]

I used to think they were two separate people (mostly due to the fire escape ending), but you've convinced me. Hope you continue to make more great videos.

[@Nightout88]

ok can i just say i love that you called him "financially shrewd", "Santa claws death rabbit creature".

[@siresquawks]

I love that financially shrewd Santa clause is something he’s called in the books. He’s been officially refereed to as such.

[@Nightout88]

@@siresquawks for real I didn't know that, which one?

[@siresquawks]

@@Nightout88 I think the original silver eyes. I specifically remember game theory mentioning it in an early sister location theory. Basically the gist is William used to be more on the overweight side before his killer days, and was financially shrewd to all hell. Hence Charlie’s description of him.

[@alexanderchippel]

I think Vanessa/Vanny would be a lot more interesting of a character if she wasn't being mind controlled and was just some lunatic who became obsessed with a long dead and gone serial killer. Maybe do a Jekyll and Hyde thing where we know they're the "same person" all along, but at the end the twist is that she doesn't have a split personality, she just pretended to to either lure in Gregory or because she thought it would be cool and edgy . This character had so much misses potential.

[@hwgwrestling9203]

Honestly I hate how Matpat completely changed how people view the story of the game Like how he made basically every character a robot and made freddy Michael ( I absolutely hate that theory and I hope they don't make it canon)

[@siresquawks]

I’m mixed on FreddyMichael.

[@hwgwrestling9203]

@@siresquawks its mostly my opinion, my biggest complaint is that Michael suffered so much in his life so dying while stopping his father and saving all the souls make me happy to see him finally rest Even tho William is eventually survived and the souls still didn't rest (?????) Also if Michael controlled freddy I don't think he would run away and escape from William and the blob (I guess you could say that he thought the blob will kill William anyway tbh we don't know if William survived or not)

[@Wowzers111]

If vanessas memories are being overwritten by William to have Elizabeth memories then that would explain why she has vanilla ice-cream and people could stop saying its proof for her being an Elizabeth robot

[@adrienholland6819]

People make it more complicated than it actually is😭

[@elioridacow]

I mean when she kidnaps Gregory she takes him to the office and then Vanny just so happens to pop up when Venessa is done talking, When it's about to turn 6 AM Venessa wants to give us an award.. Umm what? Wasn't she trying to get us out of the pizzeria? Why did she suddenly change to wanting to give him an award why? And tell us to check the main stage and spoke to us in a strange voice . Whaaa? Yeah she's 100% Vanny

[@tapseymoth803]

Vanny is Vanessa the only reason we see seperate ones is because the pizzaplex is buggy as a hell and it accidentally spawned a second vanessa on the roof. Ive seen at least five separate vanessas running around during gameplay so an extra one manifesting on the roof definitely isn’t the weirdest thing ^^

[@pinetreemallard486]

Absolutely based video. I think a lot of the frustration I have with this topic comes from realising this is likely why Vanny/Vannessa got so little screentime in the actual game. It was so we could have this. So much of security breach reads to me like Steelwool were terrified of there being any narrative aspect people could understand without having to spend hours combing over evidence. If our supposed main antagonist meaningfully affected the plot through explicit actions and dialogue, it would be a lot harder to keep her identity so vague. Hence, what we ended up getting. See, if you're more concerned with hiding a story than telling one, you run the risk of not leaving anything sustantiantial for the player to actually experience. I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of moments that are generally considered series highlights, like 'happiest day' or FFPS' true ending, are pretty explicit in what they depict.

[@siresquawks]

I do mostly agree. I feel like its hard to tell what specifically was going on at Steel wool for their dev philosophy here. Obviously there was a lot of bigger is better, but it’s hard to say what they would and wouldn’t do for the story.

[@pinetreemallard486]

@@siresquawks True, I do think the complexities of Security Breach's developement are often overlooked in these discussions. Considering how different the game ended up compared to the trailers, and stuff like the princess sprite's name, I don't think what I suggested is unlikely. But, you are right that I can't know for sure. You've probably seen Matpat's video from a few months ago where he talks about the relationship between theory channels and recent indie horror games. He makes this assertion about a few games, including SB, which I felt inclined to agree with. One point I should have made clearer: I don't think this is a "Hello Neighbor" type situation where Steelwool is cynically doing this for attention. I think it's more likely this has come from a genuine misunderstanding of the appeal of fnaf in the first place. Given how much Scott liked to deliberately throw in misdirections in the past (bite of 83/87, purple mike, etc.), it's not inconceivable to me that they'd come to think that's what people want. They'd be wrong, of course, but you see my point, right? Again, it's complicated, but I hope I'm making sense.

[@hudsonthejojo2825]

VR and AR practically beat you over the head with them being the same over and over again, it would be incredibly lame to just throw all that away in favor of "Oh ThEy'Re AcTuAlLy TwO sEpErAtE pEoPlE". Just like the mikevictim/mikebot theory, sometimes the simplest answer(mikebro) is the best option. It kinda just seems like people purposefully overthink things cuz "It's FNaF", when usually(especially in the older games) most of the general story seemed pretty cut and dry, it was always just the details that messed everyone up.

[@dumbestbelll]

maybe it’s just me, but recently matpats theories have been slowly becoming worse and worse quality

[@siresquawks]

A little.

[@serisdovakhin]

I was about to say a bit about simplicity and such... but then you address Occam's Razor directly. Subscribed. You dropped your crown, king.

[@Zantorm]

I hate the robot theories

[@blackironseamus]

The way possessed Vanessa talks reminds me a lot of how baby talks so I think you might be on to something here

[@Thee_Death_Incarnate]

Wow this theory came out at the perfect time. Literally just got confirmed that Vanessa is Vanny from FNAF Character Encyclopedia book 😂

[@theftking]

I don't even entertain the notion that Vanny isn't Vanessa. Vanessa is obviously Ness from _Earthbound._ I mean, it's right there in the name: VaNESSa. MatPat was almost right when he said Sans was Ness, but it was actually Vanessa/Vanny. That's just a theory.

[@mareklisowski6869]

We see Vanessa in Parts and Service after we have seen Vanny.

[@siresquawks]

I forgot that. Doesn’t really debunk the video though.

[@ender01o66]

🤔

[@bluegold1026]

Yeah sometimes people make this series way more complicated than it needs to be.

[@TotalXPvideos]

The developers/story writers*

[@bluegold1026]

@@TotalXPvideos not necessarily. It’s usually the fandom that fills in the void left by the lack of information within a FNAF game with rampant speculation.

[@LeaveMeAlone3omgIgotloggedouta]

Fr

[@apples6684]

I'm not entirely convinced to either side of this debate, I just like listening to people's theories on the series rather than trying to figure out my own dedicated version of the timeline, but I think you made some good points that I'll definitely think about next time I watch a video discussing if they're the same person or not.

[@MeemahSN]

It doesn’t make any sense for Vanny to be a separate character. Everything to do with Vanessa was hinting at her being Vanny. I don’t understand why people would WANT Vanessa to be a different person than Vanny; it completely ruins her as a character. The game was hinting at them being the same person from the very beginning. Every teaser we got was hinting at it. Literally nothing besides two conveniently-named characters in a joke video game implies that Vanny and Vanessa are different entities. It doesn’t make sense in the context of the game, and it doesn’t work as a plot twist.

[@devinjones1527]

Tbh this game is frustrating from a lore standpoint bc it seems like SteelWool just threw a bunch of random vagueness in here, little theory baits bc with the complexity of the lore and canon plus Scott taking a step back from the franchise, they didn't have much of a story. It seems like they made a game and put it out there with a bunch of random theory fodder so that the community would write the story for them. The most satisfying story might become the 'canon' or a few things might be confirmed but nothing was planned. I forgave little nightmares for that (mostly the sequel) bc it was a self contained story and universe designed that way from the beginning. There might not be a real explanation the devs intended but it was offered up for the sake of intrigue and to see the creativity that people can come up with, with just a few pieces. But there was already a story in place in FNAF and it's clearly just a cash grab. It's sad when an indie title ends up like this. Im not mad I'm disappointed.

[@siresquawks]

I really don't like the defeatist mindset I see like this. Not trying yourself isn't the same or evidence for assuming someone else isn't trying. Even if you were right, I still want to give people the benefit of the doubt rather than just say it's all nonsense. It's way more fun that way.

[@Krasaar621]

Just a note in a similar vain as this video, the burntrap ending was not meant to be the main ending of security breach. (Steel wool might just roll with it in the dlc to save face tho.) The ending where you save vanny has 3 stars while burntrap's has 2 and is far more involved than sitting in a room dodging bugs to hit a few buttons with a shoehorned Afton and unexplained blob. Burntrap and the blob are likely still canon but were meant to be further explored later on in the dlc or next game.

[@siresquawks]

Do you have proof for that? Like and interview quote or a dev tweet? Not doubting per say I just don't want to regurgitate that sometime and have someone correct me.

[@LightningvsLightning]

​@siresquawks Well, it looks like PQ ending is the canon one.

[@tropezando]

I agree, double Vanessa would be F tier writing. Unfortunately, I don't really expect FNAF to have good writing. I also don't put it past the series to try to retcon _into_ a double Vanny thing if they write themselves into a corner and decide they want to pull a SHOCKING REVELATION out of their asses to titillate the lore hunters further down the road. I'm a little burnt out on SB, sorry

[@slushiiix4287]

It's so confusing when it's obvious that 2 characters are the same person but the fnaf fandom refuses to believe that they are

[@Smicc]

vanny is obviously the phone guy

[@verylonelypotato]

I’m seriously confused on why people actually thought they aren’t the same person like why would she know that there is a tiny child in the pizzaplex but not a person inside of a furry costume literally dancing around the entire building it’s clear that Vanessa and vanny are the same person

[@XD-yn6hb]

Vanessa is a robot and is thus somehow affected by Vanny’s illusion disk. Vanessa is a robot built by Afton as a second try if Vanny fails to become Elizabeth.

[@titan7789]

This is a good video. But on 5:56 - I mean,maybe it's REALLY far fetched,but Golden Freddy haunted Curse Of Dreadbear ("It's me" Easter egg) So maybe he could see what happened to Vanessa,because he was always spectating?

[@siresquawks]

It’s me isn’t just a golden Freddy quote. It’s a foxy quote, a random spirit quote in the hallways, Freddy’s code says in in the between night cutscenes of 3, a few other times in 2 in general.

[@titan7789]

@@siresquawks hmm,you're right,but I think it appeared much more in Golden Freddy's presence,so it could still be Golden Freddy. (FNAF AR Golden Freddy's It's me(though FNAF AR is a strange topic), Logbook's:"It's me,Cassidy.",in the books Golden Freddy appears with "It's me." And it would actually explain why paranormal activities happen in fnaf 1, assuming that Golden Freddy does all of that stuff.

[@titan7789]

and I mean although they also look the same as spirits, the fifth one is most likely to be the one following William, I think it's the one doing all the paranormal activity,eventually making him put on his suit. And that's why Cassidy is probably more "aware" then the others,because A.I doesn't interfere in the suit mode,although trapped in the saferooms, because of that reason. Though that could be just a baseless assumption.

[@titan7789]

And... "It's me" was also cut out of Princess Quest,as far as I remember. Maybe it's just a lack of communication from Scott with Steel Wool,that Steel Wool thought that the Princess is Cassidy,but who really knows.

[@titan7789]

And sorry for spamming the comments btw,either way they do good to the channel via recommendations. The Princess is also gold. We are also shown to be outside the door(probably),while Vanessa is supposed to be inside. The King,that gives us the light sword is red,like OMC. Too many similarities,almost like a pattern. Who knows...(Though I would like being proved wrong xd)

[@cryofpaine]

Fire ending is the only "evidence" for Vanessa being a "twin", or whatever. But the other ending that focuses on Vanessa/Vanny just shows one. Why put a hint into the fire ending and not the other one? No angry Vanny in the shadows watching Vanessa escape? I can see the arguments for there to be two people, Vanny/Vanessa and Thing2, but it's so weak. You have to make a lot of speculation and tying together of things that either aren't canon, or have much easier explanations. We know spirits exist, that they can become trapped. So the fire ending simply being Vanessa's spirit trapped at the pizzaplex is the simplest and most reasonable explanation. Also, if patient 46 were her "twin", why don't the therapists ever mention it?

[@emeraldqueen1994]

THEORY : what if “Tape Girl” was one sister and the player character was the other?

[@siresquawks]

As I bring up in the video, that creates this weird story where Tape Girl works at Silver parasol, and the other just happens to work in another VR company and gets put on board. It’s not impossible but I just found that clunky since there’s no implications of anything like that. Ness never has a sister mentioned, or something like “you followed your sister to work on her team’s project” or something. Like I said not impossible but there’s a lot of gaps from what we have to that.

[@sonicmeerkat]

i genuinly have no idea why theories have reached the point of SECRETLY A ROBOT??? or CHARACTER WHO GOT A CONFIRMED IDENTITY IN THE GAMES ARE ACTUALLY THIS BOOK CHARACTER even though on multiple occassions and from the very beginning its been confirmed that they're seperate canons that inspire eachother. like hell people started arguing if funtime foxy is mangle because the silver eyes trilogy when the silver eyes trilogy literally has a different event for spring traps creation which is like, the one concrete agreed upon thing in the game lore these days unless someone wants to argue the Mpreg story is actually where afton comes from. like, the fnaf lore in convoluted enough as is, we'd make a lot more progress if we'd all agree to just... agree, these days it just seems like every theory video is a retread to remind people what the actual game canon is.

[@sharkenjoyer]

what the fuck people are thinking vanessa and vanny are separate beings? I thought we came to a consensus that they're the same people though

[@smashers6971]

I really, really despise the mystery box sort of writing SB has sometimes, and that fire escape ending is the epitome of that. I think the biggest problem with modern fnaf imo is that new characters can’t be new characters, Gregory can’t be a homeless kid getting caught up into this madness, Glamrock Freddy can’t be an animatronic who finds out the tragedy he is associated with and wants to ensure something like the past never happens agian, Vanny can’t be an interesting Jekyll and Hyde esque character, and heck even Glitchtrap does nothing in a game where he definitely should’ve been more relevant. I really think SB dropped the ball when it comes to writing for this series and that’s saying a lot when the same series has Sister location.

[@siresquawks]

Or they are just what you’re describing. I’m holding out hope for that.

[@smashers6971]

@@siresquawks I really really hope that’s the case, because I feel a big theme of the previous 2 fnaf games is moving on from the past and SB kind of spits in the face of that idea a lot.

[@purplefern6010]

AGREED. Though, this is more frustration at fans and theorists than the game necessarily. SB is a new form of FNAF games, one made by new people, with new storytelling methods, and like it or not they're trying to be more mainstream with these games. (VR and SB). And more mainstream means having normal writing where the story is the story and not vague. I'm not saying one is better than the other because the storytelling of original FNAF has its charm, but it's making people overcomplicate the story of VR and SB because they're used to the old writing of being really vague and puzzle like. VR has a very clear story about an evil AI entity corrupting players, and you literally get a Vanny mask in it. SB is about a boy stuck in a mall with a Jekyll-Hyde night guard. It's practically said in messages that the arcade machines are weird. You beat arcade games, and evil lady isn't evil anymore. It's straightforward and I REALLY hate that people keep making it convoluted because for some reason they want Micheal involved AGAIN. Even though it really doesn't make sense. I think SB is trying to be new but people just won't let it be new. Sorry. I went off on a rant. Tl;Dr I'm annoyed and tired of SB wanting to do its own thing with a more streamlined and straightforward storytelling method and fans just overcomplicating it unnecessarily because they want to bring back the past. Also FREDDY ISN'T MICHAEL. Please let this theory die it is stupid and wouldn't make narrative sense.

[@dantekrux2000]

I think the fire escape ending is where all the confusion comes from. Having Vanessa look down at Vanessa as the building burns behind her was either some insane- and poorly executed- surprise twist, or some deep symbolism that wasn't made clear. It's the whole reason SB is frustrating to me, because like so many FnaF tubers have said, SB presents questions where any answer you give requires you to ignore evidence. IS Gregory a robot? No, as long as you ignore the visual interferance he gets and the odd voice lines from Freddy. Or, yes, except we need to ignore the thousands of questions that brings. Who's patient 46? It's a child who's an expert hacker but also lied about their past and likely killed multiple therapists, also they're working with Afton. All this to say, I can't believe much of any theory surrounding SB because the game itself is self-contradictory. When someone says that Vanessa is a robot version of Elizabeth because of the books, I'll buy into it for the twenty or so minutes of entertainment, but until we get the Ruin DLC to explain some shit, I'm taking even the simplest answers with a grain of salt. Like, even this simple question - Is Vanessa Vanny?- is a schrodinger's cat scenario. There's a literal mountain of evidence to say that she is! But then why include an ending that requires you to go out of your way for a cutscene that means nothing?

[@somethingtwice2297]

The only problem that I have with the Vanny-is-Vannessa is the idea that they don't actually know what to do with her. The fact that they're the same people was predictable from the moment they were announced, and I don't actually trust SteelWool at all to just stick with it. I wouldn't be surprised if they're baiting the audience with the idea that Vannessa and Vanny are the same just to go SURPRISE: they're two different people, kindly lose your shit over this reveal, you know?

[@siresquawks]

Yeah but it feels more like lying when the clues are one weird ending and two models you never see together being slightly different. It’d be a real shitty reveal.

[@dylanlewis5113]

I just want to know if the "possession" that created Vanny is a standard possession where an outside force is in total control of the host (Vanny is literally William in a new body) or if it's more of a corruption of the host ( The host's morals and personality have been twisted to be more in line with William's goals). I prefer the second option. Its more interesting to me. If this is the case, does the host's original self still exist to some extent, or has the host been totally overwritten by the programming? I lean towards the latter, since I'm sick to death of the whole "multiple personality disorder= crazy killer" trope. It's overused and harmful to those that have DID.

[@siresquawks]

I think it's mainly just that William lurks in Vanessa's mind, and takes control as Vanny for complete control. In other words, Vanessa is influenced by Glitchtrap, but Vanny is when he takes complete control.

[@vahahadziev]

"VannyRedeemed" still doesn't convince some people. What a "great" community

[@CalebIsHere]

Don't forget fire is hot AF, so there is NO chance Vanessa is just standing up there with fire that close.

[@siresquawks]

subject to suspension of disbelief but fair

[@eldritch-tailedfeydeer7320]

FNaF theorizers, meet Occam’s Razor.

[@Silly_Sulky_Seli]

yeah FOR REAL if she's two seperate people or a robot or whatever than there is so much build up for nothing, Security Breach for nothing but giving William a random form that'd be unnecessary definitly like also when ppl try to say it's another personality of _her_ like what part of Glitchtrap being a sentient virus do you not get? he literally merged himself with Vanessa to manipulate her, HE is the other voice in her brain, the other personality, does Help Wanted not exist or do you just hate DID people Help Wanted is what it is and Security Breach changed nothing it only made Glitchtrap go back into a robotic body Vanassa isn't a plot-twist this isn't a Disney movie it's FNAF

[@willowallen4688]

Oh I never thought about the double Vanessa ending symbolizing her soul being stuck in the pizza plex! That makes so much more sense!

[@adamationsplus8063]

I like to think of Secuirty Breach like a Glass Onion. A story that seems densely layered but in fact the answer is in plain sight.

[@Naruku2121]

Honestly I think the Fire Escape ending is the Catalyst for all of this. My opinion is that it's more of a symbolic ending. Like the cruelty of Vanny was killed from the fall, but the innocence Vanessa is left to an underserving fate as everything is consumed around her as she watches. Basically the opposite of the Freed Vanessa ending of Princess quest. In that sure technically Vanessa is now free, in the freedom that death offers her, but is it the 'best'? And that's where the literal 'Best' ending comes in.

[@skelebonez1349]

I feel she’s less of a full possession and more of a manipulated person It reminds me of this arc in pizza time pizza by Alex bale which is like that

[@skelebonez1349]

Ok alongside this it reminds me of scream, they could act like completely different people from wearing the suit to acting as one the victims till the reveal

[@porcelainchips6061]

Part of my hesitance with the Vanny / Vanessa thing has to do with a deep wish to understand security breach better as an over-arching narrative to then look back on the cast and ask how they fit into the puzzle. With how most people theorize right now, people seem to want to place characters first in order to then guess / explain the narrative. I think we need to really take a deep breath and try to look at visual sources more broadly and try less to precisely nail down / tie in everything neatly. I don't know were I stand on the V ladies being the same or different. What I do believe is that the VR sisters BROADLY represent some kind of a concept, or detail; there are two women, or two girls, or a woman and a girl who have played the VR game and are the working together. I think that's it, at it's core; I do assume one is Vanessa, partly because one has a lot of purple and Vanessa has purple nail polish and wears a purple shirt in some endings. Vanny's eyes are red, like the other sister, but I would like to point out both VR sisters do NOT share the same haircut; which I believe is an intentional clue, given when Vanny is unmasked she not only looks exactly like Vanessa (and probably is, as you've clearly pointed out) but she has the same haircut as Vanessa. So who would be a short-haired woman/girl who has had contact with the VR headset? Is it us (the player character)? Is Vanessa the POV player character in dread bear and the main game, or just in dreadbear? Without immediately rushing to pin a specific known character immediately onto an unknown character (the "everything is Elizabeth" problem), I think we can really give ourselves the breathing room to think in broader terms and look for overarching themes. I would even dare to say we might do better at solving mysteries by NOT trying to name/identity every character, but instead try to define how many times John Doe or Jane Doe consistantly appears as an entity, or what they do functionally, and then LATER try to see if it lines up with any established characters.

[@siresquawks]

The other weird thing is the sisters have beaks and Highscore Chica's colors and patterns.

[@CharlieSimmer27]

great theory!!! :D i've believed vanessa and vanny are the same person forever, and this video is fantastic evidence for that! also the visuals in this are so good, i usually like to have these types of videos on in the background but i sat here and watched this whole thing because it's edited so well

[@ipurpleghostt]

I love how simple to digest your theories are. Like sometimes you just need to look at the obvious

[@ilikepigeons6101]

Vanny and vanessa twins theorists when you tell them that Bruce Wayne is Batman 😧

[@pilloeglade5463]

When i first saw the fire escape ending I was like "oh thats her ghost stuck in the mall" but I know a bunch of theorists who think the vanessa on the roof was a different person. Which I halfway believed because I think Fnaf could be that stupid lol

[@Seriously_Unserious]

I still can't begin to understand how Vanessa and Vanny being different people is or ever was a matter for debate. The game literally tells us, as blunt as a club to the head, "Vanny is Vanessa". We never see the 2 of them in the same place at the same time, always one or the other, with the closes thing to them appearing at the same time is Vanessa appearing on a video screen giving a monologue at the camera while Vanny's closing in from the coffee shop above. Dudes, that's a COMPUTER SCREEN, have you never heard of RECORDING A VIDEO?! What boggles the mind most about that "evidence" is they'll be denying the existence of recorded videos IN a recorded video! Then there's the actual name. VANessa. VANny. Same name, one's just a shortened and kidified version of Vanessa. Same face, same name, never appear beside each other, told blunt as a club they're the same character, how much more Captain Obvious did Steel Wool need to be?!

[@jokernoob9905]

I agree, and I'd even take it a step further. Tape Girl IS Vanessa (who is also Vanny). :) The Freddy Files points this out and even acts as if that was the common consesus at the time (which it totally wasn't.)

[@siresquawks]

I’m split on that. I guess there’s a world where Tape Girl goes to the new company under Glitchtrap’s influence to put him back together, but at the same time why would she need to be possessed twice? Unless the beta tester we play as isn’t Vanny which is confusing in its own right. And the Freddy files gets some things like JJ’s portrait wrong which makes things confusing

[@jokernoob9905]

@@siresquawks The Freddy Files makes some practical mistakes, but ultimately I think it's valid evidence. I heard the Ultimate Guide was written by Cawthon aswell, so it's coming straight from the source. I used to be kinda split on that theory aswell, especially cuz the voice actors are different. Vanny has actually changed actors multiple times, confusing stuff man.

[@titan7789]

I thought we play as Vanessa,oof.

[@rexspecificallyredrex64rem73]

Paraphrasing what you said, Modern day fnaf theories are more about justifying their contrarian headcanon than building the story.

[@blitzwolfer4154]

Either way, I'm gonna laugh at whoever is wrong! And I hope you will make a video in the future should this Vanny/Vanessa lore bit gets clarified.

[@asterolivine5367]

Found your stuff a few days ago, already a big fan keep up the awesome work

[@Majorawesome003]

I’m new to your video but that little clip with the Vanessa sprite and just “W O M A N” is funny as hell

[@DeltaTheToon]

Talks about matpat's theories are far' fetched ... Makes one themselves

[@siresquawks]

The entire premise of Help Wanted being brainwashing and then saying that Security Breach, it’s sequel is about the same topic is pretty different than saying, “Anyone and everyone that appears human could be a robot that near perfectly mimics human life because an unrelated book did it”.

[@higueraft571]

@@siresquawks I *would* argue on the "unrelated" bit admittedly. Aside from Scott, we know several key points match the game damn near 1:1 ...and if it's doing what I think it is. Afton Ending may have set up the game's counterpart to the Amalgamation. And *could* be his actual death. He's been eaten by a giant pile of mostly-feral Remnant after it's gorged on Remnant-packed FNAF 1 animatronics, alongside that of the MCI victims already within. The same person seemingly able to dominate robots and living beings (to a degree).

[@ender01o66]

@@siresquawks the brain washed ending is one of the non-canon/bad endings, the official ending is the locked door one, as it's referenced again in Princess Quest it's also shown to be the other side of the Golden Freddy poster, linking the Princess to Cassidy besides just the game files it's also the only time Golden Freddy is referenced in Help Wanted, if you exclude Nightmare Fredbear, although he was supposed to be brown originally

[@McGeeMcGeeMcGee-g7w]

@@siresquawks man, you need to learn the difference between you not liking something and someone being wrong

[@sophitiaofhyrule]

The reason people believe they're separate people and/or robots isn't necessarily because they want to believe it. It's just that recent FNAF lore is needlessly complicated and honestly really stupid, especially in the books. I don't think most people want it to be real, it's more of a "I wouldn't be surprised if Scott and/or Steel Wool intended this"

[@siresquawks]

I’ve noticed that every time a new Fnaf game comes out everyone goes on about how convoluted it is or “needlessly complicated” and then the next game or two happens and hindsight kicks in and we all feel stupid for believing x or y at all. Fnaf 2, 4, world, SL, and to a smaller extent UCN all had massive spikes of this before SB. Whether it makes sense or not I feel like ruin and or the next game are going to make this all seem straightforward even if only relatively. It all seems stupid until it actually is explained properly or more clues are given.

[@sophitiaofhyrule]

@Sire Squawks My main concern is that ever since FNAF6 or even SL to a certain extent, the line between games and books have become blurred, and I really don't like it. The books have some wack lore, like people secretly being robots and the illusion disks are so, so dumb. My hope is that the games and book stay separate.

[@melbiamil5144]

I love how people actually use the fire ending as "proof". Like, "if they are the same person, how come when vanny dies we see Vanessa in the roof?" In a game where ghosts exist.

[@madison-3325]

And their excuse is “but ghosts don’t have color in this game”

[@grenouillesupreme]

​@@madison-3325as if the minigames were accurate, like william is purple

[@8bit-milk]

so it's kind of like multiple personality disorder

[@QuestionableConno]

Yes, more like the hypno kind of possession

[@PixPlaysoyeaaaaa]

I feel like they made Freddy comment on Vanny sounding like Vanessa and bunny to make sure that the fans know Vanny is Vanessa. With the fans looking into everything, they wanted to make it clear, but the fans can's take answers straight, which is honestly fair.

[@gerardsheppard894]

Hold in the lost and found moment when you first meet vanny doesn’t she show up right after Vanessa

[@EggsBenedict-te4nj]

Yeah that stumped everyone for a while before the dlc revealed that she can teleport thanks to her mask.

[@adia7017]

I felt like it was fairly obvious that 46 is Vanny, given the consistent opposites in likes, dislikes, and behaviours between her and Vanessa. Plus the change in how the therapists engage with the two. I forget where, but I recall a video going over it with some expertise on multiple personality disorder and how psychiatrists work when that's present. TL;DR I think the Vanessa/Vanny thing is more simple than even Sire thinks it is and 46 is just Vanny being treated as a multiple personality case through her sessions

[@siresquawks]

Eh. 46 is described as being too small for their chair, and is talked to like their a child which is what makes them weird. And there’s the whole post-it room which I talked about in my 46 video. I

[@titan7789]

I think that 46 is a brainwashed child. But while that or not that it also could be that 46 is the one manipulating Vanessa into acting like Vanny. Maybe,like controlling an animatronic,she controls code of the brainwashing(Patient 46 has some sort of device, that she uses to talk to herself,the therapist however says,that's she must be talking to someone else,and that at first she thought that Patient 46 was being manipulated,but its implied that that's not the case) This would also explain the connection to the Tape Girl as of,Patient 46 controls them like puppets of her will. Just an assumption.

[@adia7017]

@@siresquawks That's fair, a detail I missed. Not sure if that video I'm thinking of covered it or not. Might try to link it if I can find it again. Still an idea I think is worth considering at least for some different perspectives on certain details and their connections

[@DeltaTheToon]

@@adia7017 They weren't described as too small, just not comfortable in the chair...

[@CommanderLVJ1]

All I know is that I and millions of others want security breach to have an actual happy ending: for while the FNAF franchise may have primarily released horror themed games and while security breach certainly can have horror elements in it: everyone already knows that at the very least the 4 glamrock animatronics are helpless victims who have been infected by a computer virus and are being controlled by the actual villains of the game; everyone already knows that the Pizzaplex is an amazingly cool place that should remain standing and could maybe even be a “sandbox” for the player to play in with the animatronics; and perhaps other players; etc. and if this DLC is what it appears to be (another example of horrible horrid negative distressing destructive bullshit based upon anger and fear) then now is the time to act and I implore anyone reading this to let Steelwool studios know that they have gone too far!..and need to add AT LEAST an actual happy ending in which the animatronics are saved and the Pizzaplex is left intact…I personally will not be buying the game until they do. In fact I have sent Steelwool studios an email asking them to make such an ending in which nothing horrible happens to any of the animatronics; the pizzaplex is left intact; and the player frees and saves all 4 of them instead: if anyone else would like to send them an email as well all the needs to do is go to the contact section of their website. Here is one of the best fan videos I have ever seen depicting such an actual happy ending: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3qlaKNqfq1-gKc

[@siresquawks]

“Millions of fans” Im not sure that figure is accurate, even as a hyperbolic sentiment.

[@CommanderLVJ1]

Oh, but I am; if only because I can provide substantiation for such a claim...how? Easy; just look at the number of views these videos and videos like them have received: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGW2moNjhq2aZ7c m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3qlaKNqfq1-gKc m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZ2bo5KerriVfdk See; not all FNAF fans are horror freaks, and not all FNAF fans enjoy or want pain and suffering: and in fact many FNAF fans of all ages (including myself) like the FNAF franchise because of its characters and theme rather than the horror aspect that it is currently focussed around: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/rH7Vn41midyCa6M m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnXdoXlsZaijjMU m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/npPJppSLbZ53pKM

[@siresquawks]

@@CommanderLVJ1 There's a difference between liking another ending or a fan made alternate universe, and the actual fanbase wanting that to be the ending. And a million views aren't a million people, that's how many times people have "watched" (even if only for a second or so). They are big videos, but I wouldn't say it's the majority of the fanbase or what even a majority of those viewers want to happen in cannon. There are millions of views on videos where people hate security breach, there are millions of views on Undertale fan AUs, but that isn't the majority nor what an adequate representation of FNaF even is. I'm not saying Horror is all fnaf is or the opposite. But saying the story should be one thing because a portion of a gargantuan fanbase with videos that eclipse 100 million views because a few videos cross 10 or even 20 is absurd, just as much as random saying fnaf should've ended after 3 or 6 is absurd. FNaF's going to be what whoever's in charge wants it to be. If that creates a happy ending then so be it, and the opposite. More often the opposite, FNaF normally ends on a melancholy note or just a depressing one. And that's ok.

[@CommanderLVJ1]

Actually; according to the best information I have found; it takes at least 30 seconds for a view to be counted as such: and while I grant that the number of views that a video has received may or may not directly correlate with the number of people who have actually watched said video, it must also be acknowledged that any sort of commentary about said viewer to view relationship is pure speculation: and furthermore that (especially considering that KZbin will detect if somebody were to be continuously refreshing a webpage in an attempt to generate additional views for a video.) the insinuation that videos such as the real ending and Gregory repairs Roxy which had at least 15 and 12 million views respectfully and with at least tens of thousands of comments each within their first month on KZbin have only been watched by a few people is absolutely ridiculous. In any case; while I do not know what every single member of the FNAF fan base does or does not think about every single thing, as you claim to; I am simply going by the numbers, and not only the number of views for a given video, but also the number of comments from people who both want and support such an actual happy ending for security breach. Also; while the FNAF franchise has absolutely been focussed on horror up to this point; and while ordinarily I would even grant that (while horror does not absolutely need to be horrible) this may mean that there may be some thoroughly unpleasant thing in a horror game, the thing is that honestly this time; it’s just a little bit different, if only because steel wool studios have tried to advertise security breach as being more child friendly and as being part of a “family friendly“ horror franchise; inevitably meaning that there are going to be (and are) children both involved with as well as playing security breach which inevitably comes with certain responsibilities on the part of Steelwool studios,: and because security breach has not at the very least been nearly as subtle abstract ambiguous or indirect as other entries in the FNAF franchise have been, etc. no; no, it is not ok.

[@barrimccockiner5451]

i like this theory over others. has anyone ever heard the theory that everyone has at least seven people in the world that looks like you? Afton could very well be using Vanessa and brainwashing/gaslighting her into thinking she is Elizabeth BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH SHE LOOKS LIKE ELIZABETH. Afton wants to bring his family back together? Then he is starting that process by building that family from the ground up starting with Vanessa.

[@sweetchocolatesecret]

You know? That does make sense that Vanny burning in the building is a sign that Vanessa's soul is locked away in the game and is burning in Princess Quest. I buy it!

[@benjaminmead9036]

human subjects doesnt mean multiple humans, its just to make the sentence look more real when typed into google. also i mostly believe vanny is vannessa. but to be fair, we never see spirits portrayed the way the fire ending vannessa is. edit for a typo that flipped meaning

[@RobinRhombus2]

Fun fact: Vanny's 3D model is shorter than Vanessa. Specifically the body, not the mascot head.

[@siresquawks]

Hm.

[@c.b.400]

Billiam Afton

[@bluestrangler0447]

I feel like a lot of the theories now regarding them being twins and all that are grasping at straws and over analyzing stuff because there’s nothing new to talk about with the game until the DLC

[@bluestrangler0447]

I just realized, the door that Vanessa gets locked behind in FNAF VR...is probably the same door in Princess Quest 3

[@egg_ox]

It would have been more interesting if they were separate characters

[@siresquawks]

I disagree. I'd prefer one complicated character than 2 completely bland basic characters with no complexity other than being convoluted sisters.

[@oliverjoukowsky4451]

Fred head is gonna be rattling around in my brain lol

[@magnus0017]

I feel like a good logic case for the VR Sisters not meaning vanny is a separate person is: because of the use of the VR stuff Vanessa was broken into two personalities. It makes it seem like sisters. But they're not sisters, it's virtual. They are pallette swaps. They are virtual sisters because they're the same person. I dunno, someone can and probably has said that better, I don't actually play these games I just like watching other people try and explain it. Love your points on how a second character would literally invalidate a bunch of the games' stories.

[@christylane5107]

"Code virus rabbit ghost dad thing" dang, this story is convoluted

[@ebthebluealt]

This is the best use of logic ive ever seen

[@Circus_baby_1]

The "Santa Clause dead rabbit" got me laughing hard

[@dillydraws]

To take this from a movie. FNAF is just a Glasss Onion. You can peal away the layers but you can see right though it.

[@Hot_SpicyGrill]

Vanny sister was before the statue. There was a debate about this sense tape girl from help wanted.

[@Miguel-nl4uc]

10:17 I confused here. Do you think Vanny is tape girl? Because I think Tape girl and Vanessa are two entirely different people. I think we play as Vanessa in Help Wanted and the entire VR game is what happened the day Vanessa meet Glitchtrap.

[@siresquawks]

I don't know- this video is old- maybe I thought that at the time but I don't think so now.

[@thebeetleball]

This was such a refreshing video, it's so nice to see something that takes a step back and looks at things in a more simplified way. Fnaf is convoluted to hell, don't get me wrong, but there's definitely also a lot of objectively simple plot points that the fandom overthinks, like the cassidy princess quest thing for example Also, before we even had vanny's name she was called "reluctant follower" in the game files. I feel like everyone forgets that + it seems like glitchtrap gets forgotten about a lot too. I also see posts saying steel wool brought back william for sb but like....no he's been back since help wanted

[@dr.archaeopteryx5512]

Really funny how this wouldn't be an issue at all if the games as a whole weren't a badly written confusing mess littered with nonsensical retcons and abandoned plot threads. Usually people don't expect to be gaslit when they're told that a masked character is another characters alter ego but here we fucking go

[@siresquawks]

Meh. I feel like there’s some perpetual part of the fandom just trying to be contradictory at times. This happens almost every new game. Security breach is just a way more extreme example than usual.

[@kyubbikcat2281]

Screw Security Beach for somehow being more convoluted than the rest of the entire series.

[@siresquawks]

Ehh you haven’t been here in the Fnaf 4 launch days then. That was way worse in my opinion.

[@sunthorn4782]

I hate it how freddy says Vanessa and bunny line because it sounds like the most obvious red herring but that is literally what is intended

[@jpreyes6640]

You know what I like this idea a lot more, it's not that good ol william has made robot people of the kids he lost (elizabeth and CC) but he found people who greatly resemble them and is trying to overwrite them as his minions/family

[@ForgedinPrint]

10:35. You mentioned occam's razor, in fnaf I think it has the opposite meaning. The more convoluted it is the more likely it is accurate.

[@AcordHachi]

To me the fact that Vanessa and Vanny have different voice actors is a deal braker like in any piece of media, especially in this little franchise. We never see Vanny's eye color. No one should just accept anything until this gets adressed. Now, my interpretation is that 46 wants to wear a mask to be annonymous and steal Vanessa's identity given the fact that the "lies" are probably a copy paste of her life, not 46 who, according to official papers, had parents and her own records. Furthermore, we saw ghosts in FNAF, white with black eyes. Vanessa was CLEARLY not transparrent at all so Steelwool would have screwed up sooo badly if in the end the message is that she died. And yes, to clarify, I too think Vanessa is human and yes, again, to clarify, I also agree that in save Vanny ending that is Vanny on the hill. The problem is that we never see the eye color to confirm wether she would be Vanessa which below I explain why it's a bad choice, not only because the timing of switching control has been already beaten to dust. There is no logical option. To sum it up for those who can't keep up: I don't necessary disagree with the critique in the video but we are left with one of 2 bad options: eighter Vanny is Vanessa and we got the worst plot writing on top of an already boring game, or option 2 close to what MatPat proposed (not necessary all of it, just the big picture of the actual released "rushed final product"). I firmly believe that option 2 is a better deal.

[@siresquawks]

Vanny's VA changed a lot. Jessica Tang (VR Vanny) Stacey Young (Trailer Vanny) Marta Svetek (SB Vanny) Heather Masters (Vanessa) So no the voices aren't that important. Hell, William's voice was going to change too but that got cut. Plus, she has a voice filter on which complicates things further. Ghosts are only black and white in Scott's pixel artstyle. Every media past that gives them different traits and such. I can't see a world where 46 is different enough in physical build to not fit in a chair Vanessa fit perfectly and have them be close enough in build that they could impersonate each other. Vannessa and Gregory both have black eyes in the comics instead of Green and Brown, so it doesn't matter what color eyes Vanny has. She has the same build and hair style and color as Vanessa.

[@AcordHachi]

Dude, come on, all of you, analysts but expecially you, are running circles. Even now instrad of building some ideas you still did the same like in the video: demolish without offering an alternative or aknowledging foundational facts. Ok let's understand the text (I thought someone else on the internet wouldn't get what I sayed but whatever). The voice actors are diferent IN THE SAME GAME. Have anyone seen in media a caracter with alter ego and 2 voice actors? NO The point of ghosts art style wasn't that it changed, it was that there isn't. Period. You can't tell if that's a ghost and that was always the problem. More speculation is more chaos. Your point about Vanessa's impersonation is already a nitpick before we got any solid answears for LITERARLY ANYTHING in this mess of a game. Heck you might even be on to something, but mark my words: an example of solid underatanding is that patient 46 is or looks like a woman. That's what a starting point looks like people. We built from here. And finally no shit we call Vanny an ipersonator and the response is "but they are so similar"? At least I'll give you credit for the idea that the eyes in comics are black. For the confirmation we would need Vanny to appear in future games. Tl;dr since the game launched, I've faced with the problem of fans only deconstructing theories and not giving back anything. Same here. We are stuck with this new half backed narative and no one seems to want to build it piece by piece. Most of us should move on and return brielfy if the movie would be good and based on what we know, it has potential.

[@LordofFullmetal]

@@siresquawks Doesn't matter that Scott was the one who came up with the "ghosts are black and white" thing - that is the way players have consistently been trained to look at the games up until this point. Most players aren't reading the books, so ignore those. You can't assume they're reading the books. You have to assume they've only played the mainline games, because that is where most average fans sit. When you remove the books from the equation and focus on the mainline games, ghosts are almost ALWAYS depicted as being black and white. So yes, it is going to confuse people when you suddenly change that and make them look exactly like normal, living people. You can't train your audience to decode things one way, then suddenly change it on them for no reason and just expect them to figure it out. That would be like associating Afton with purple for game after game after game, then suddenly changing his colour to green. It makes no sense, and the audience is GOING to assume it's a new character. It's either a sign of something else, or it's god-awful writing. Personally, I think it's just bad writing.

[@AcordHachi]

@@LordofFullmetal Amen my man! Well sayed. Also remember when in fnaf2 Afton had 2 sprites? Pink and purple. It was a war of debates. Niw since no one learned, the old lesson has come to pass: history repeates itself. Only this time is with ghosts, not 8bit sprites. And also, oh memories, in sister location we assumed that ennard was purple guy only to be confirmed in the custom night to be 2 purple guys? One in skin and one in uniform. Treesicle did the most real video ahead of its time. Truly reccomend watching "fnaf is bullshit" from Treesicle. Scott laughed at us even with his ass. :)

[@smollmoth6376]

I don't know if anyone 4lse brought this up but like afton using Vanessa DIRECTLY with her voice and body to lure in a child with sexual undertones is like some form of super fucked up shit lol

[@vahahadziev]

xD

[@LightningvsLightning]

Uhhh...