Sisters' Delusion Compels Them to "Live Off the Grid" in Wilderness | Vance Family Disaster Analysis

[@katecrosby7890]

As the child of a farmer, the idea that you can grow seeds in the wild without any knowledge is so beyond insane. People don't even grow enough to live off of in their own gardens, let alone without irrigation or anything to amend the soil

[@Tina06019]

I know. I once spoke self-disparagingly about my little garden, and a much older friend told me “when you are hungry, it’s too late to learn how to hunt, fish, and grow food. No harm in practicing now.”

[@alexjonhson3765]

Very important harsh reality.

[@aliassmithandjones9453]

especially at 10,000 feet elevation!

[@BiggestBigBoy]

'how did the Irish have a famine, they've got ground everywhere?'

[@DottieMinerva]

I started growing vegetables last summer and if I had to survive off of them I would be dead swiftly.

[@Me-ei8yd]

As someone who has 160 acres in the frozen north of Canada. Even with my electricity and wood stove. I get 7 chords of wood stacked every spring summer. ITS HARD LIVING and that's with the modern ammenties.

[@SketchPLAY1]

I bet its Damn peaceful there though.

[@johnengland8619]

​@@SketchPLAY1oh in Canada, I get it now

[@carlamarlene2927]

My husband said once "hey let's move to Canada" my reply? "I can't get you to chop wood for 3months of winter, how you gonna chop for 9months of it?" It's a romantic thought but no.

[@ladonnafunk8719]

​@@carlamarlene2927I live in Canada and chop no wood. My home is heated by natural gas.

[@carlamarlene2927]

@@ladonnafunk8719 no he wanted to live on n the woods all primitive.

[@johns1625]

"They watched KZbin videos about wilderness survival" And thats when i knew they were doomed. I live and work in wilderness areas 20 days per month and i encounter this mentality so frequently.

[@dinkyboss]

The amount of people who think it’s easy to live off the grid are genuinely insane. Delusional doesn’t even seem like a strong enough word. People severely underestimate how intense nature is. There’s a reason humans created city’s and towns.

[@sooofunny37]

that last sentence has exponential gravity@@dinkyboss

[@13donstalos]

@@sooofunny37 That last sentence has an extraneous apostrophe

[@nuthinbutluv4u142]

​@@13donstalosThat last sentence misspelled cities.

[@24JJ821]

@@nuthinbutluv4u142 That last sentence has a secret alien hiding in it.

[@vickinoeske1154]

The fact that the sisters relied so much on their parents should have been a warning that they really weren't self-sufficient. They were uneducated and ill-prepared to live in the woods. I feel for the poor boy who never stood a chance.

[@GalinaEv]

Still had a lot of opinions about vaccines. Thats antivaxxers for you

[@jamest6837]

i like Vienna sausages but i have to have saltines with them

[@organicmagic8822]

they basically murdered him

[@raven_g6667]

I deal with schizophrenia myself. One of my biggest hurdles on the road to where i am today, with a job and living in relative stability was taking my medication. I was just like them in the beginning, very distrustful of the doctors and medications they prescribed. After several years of voicing my displeasures with certain medications, changing them and finding a regimen that worked, I began to make better choices. Ultimately, it was a decision I had to make: Do I want things to keep on as is? Or do I want to change and be better? I chose the latter. Fully capable of understanding that I'm never gonna be like your neurotypical personality or live the life they would, but I am happy. I was able to carve out a piece of existence with the circumstances given to me. I shutter to imagine where I'd be if I had chosen an unfortunate route like this one.

[@ShelleyBean1808]

Good for you! Also, it's 'shudder to think' 😅 but I'm happy you found a med regime that works for you. It's hard to find balance with that stuff sometimes imo x

[@breathnstop]

I give you credit. Sometimes the meds have such uncomfortable side effects or don't work at all. I always tell patients keep trying be a squeaky wheel. The doctor only knows you aren't ok if you speak up. Otherwise they figure their treatment is working.

[@ShelleyBean1808]

@@breathnstop yep! Being honest 100% is exactly what you need to do:)

[@vala1277]

It seems to me like it would take a lot of courage to make the leap of faith to trust others when your own brain is giving you bad information. Everyone expects to be able to trust their own mind of course,, because that's normal.. it seems like it would be so confusing and scary to figure out what are symptoms and what is you. I admire your courage.

[@2wheelsforever174]

Thank you for sharing😊❤

[@t1ll316]

I wonder how many more cases like these are caused by grifters on TV and YT that make everything look so easy while faking stuff, taking shortcuts, working with a whole team and big budget etc.

[@whiskeytangofoxtrot1986]

It’s a lot like the stay at home moms of KZbin who try to act poor and giving real poor moms unrealistic expectations!

[@cindymichel4870]

Not to mention those that convince people that they need to go "off-grid" to survive the coming apocalypse.

[@EN-kr3xt]

As sad as this story is, the reality is that 35% of our population live under these thoughts and beliefs. They identify as MAGA- and their cult leader is Mr Donald Trump.

[@lisetteeliseparis7070]

Exactly.

[@sooofunny37]

Grande mentioned that as well.@joan-lisa-smith

[@GlasUndMetall]

Imagine being dragged into the wilderness by your insane mother and her sister and your last meal is Vienna sausages. That poor boy.

[@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823]

Vienna are pretty damn good, tho...

[@glow1815]

I like Vienna sausages my favorite pork

[@nhmooytis7058]

@@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823better than eating raw marmot 😅

[@LathropLdST]

You are thinking about ~your~ Vienna sausages that come in a flask with dirty water. There are good Vienna sausages around that don't taste like würstel spoiled hopes and dreams...

[@auntymarushkafah]

But how about cooked marmot, nh? Might be tasty/

[@momof1576]

This is what happens when you are addicted to prepper fantasy books and don’t bother to develop any real skills. A lot of the prepper community used the lockdowns to practice bread making and sewing skills or to learn something. Unfortunately the delusional thinking of these women made them unable to differentiate between having food storage and growing a garden and being able to survive off the grid. I understand that they had mental health problems but that little boy died needlessly. I grew up in northern Ontario. I camp and know how to forage, hunt and fish. I know my medicinal plants and how to purify water. I have first aid, wilderness first aid and outdoor survival training. My daughter has been trained to survive in the woods in case we go off the road or she gets turned around while foraging (we mark our trails, she can read a compass, and carries a whistle). I would never have tried what those women did. It was more than reckless it was asinine.

[@lisahance]

People with no hiking/camping experience underestimate how harsh the conditions can actually become and don't realize that they are risking their lives. It's sad that they thought they could learn survival skills by watching KZbin videos.

[@Jezus42]

As a person who grew up in and around the forest when I hear these stories I have one line of advice stay out of the forest/wilderness. If you go tell people and always stay within sight of the trail. And take more water.

[@MrStringybark]

Then again the shop was only 27 miles away. So they weren't exactly isolated in that regard.

[@JimmyMon666]

There's a reason there is no significant farming in the rocky mountains today. They would have had better luck in Mississippi or someplace down South (so they don't freeze to death). But of course even then you can only get so much food from farming at certain times of the year (assuming it doesn't get wiped out by severe storms or pests). It has to be supplemented by hunting and fishing. Long story short, it takes a lot of land area to have a hunter gatherer lifestyle, and a lot of hard work. You are best off going to New Guinea, people do still have a hunter gatherer lifestyle down there. The wet climate helps a lot with that.

[@Jezus42]

@MrStringybark I'm reminded of the old lady who was 300 yards from a camp. She had zero experience decided to walk the Appalachian trail stepped of the trail to use the bathroom and took a month to die. All while messaging her husband.

[@MrStringybark]

@@Jezus42 They did have a car up to a certain point.

[@ZootyZoFo]

When I was a kid in the 70’s I used to read books about all the American explorers & mountain men and dreamed of living what is now called “off the grid”. I wanted to live off the land and read every survival book I could find then practiced making shelters & snares while camping in my backyard, I was obsessed with it. Then I grew up, my love for the outdoors lead to extensive backpacking trips in Americas national parks & wilderness areas and it was there that I learned for real just how tough spending 8 days in the wilderness was even with high tech gear & dehydrated food and just how happy I was to get back to civilization by the end of the trip.

[@spazmonkey3815]

When my wife and I were young ( in the early 70's) we backpacked and camped a lot in New York state. The longest we stayed out was 7 days in mid-fall. I cannot imagine staying out any longer. We were pretty dirty, smelled like smoke and after 7 days, foodless. The environment in northern NY is nothing like 10,000 feet elevation in Colorado which is brutal. I'm amazed that they were so afraid of the apocalypse that they ran into an apocalypse of their own design.

[@DavianSinner]

I could never understand that conspiracy thinking of "I must survive the apocalypse". As if it's going to be so great that they wouldn't want to miss out on it.

[@a.k.emerson424]

Exactly my thoughts! Why would anyone care to stick around?!

[@76boromir]

I understand that someone want's to stay alive, although the long term perspective is grim. It's self preservation instinct. What's hard to understand is when someone put's himself in a doomsday situation without any good chance and knowledge how to survive it. Now thats veird.

[@jacindapaf8076]

The apostrophe usage in this post is doomsday. If only people knew the difference between that is and that’s. There is no thats, or want’s, or put’s.😉

[@Azby64]

​@@jacindapaf8076 Redundant apostrophes torture me too, but let's calm down. Not everyone connects spoken and written language well.

[@Azby64]

I always wonder what people are thinking with that! I've seen footage of bunkers that are pretty well made and are intended to protect whole new societies, but individuals? WHY?!

[@dianecripps204]

Humans are not meant to live apart from society. I saw a video about an experienced woodsman who lived alone in Alaska for decades. Still, he needed someone to bring him supplies by plane.

[@PeterRabbit70]

The story of Richard Proenneke. Best documentary ever.

[@mikewood8695]

Firstly, many small communities around the world thrive wonderfully off grid and away from the dreadful sick modern society that most folk are hooked on and who are totally dependent on corporations and the government for their survival - there's nothing great about that - secondly, if folk are smart, they live in warm climates with plenty of water - I live in a small off grid community in Central America - we have a massive abundance of all year round organic food and solar electricity with internet - for many smart and able people, it's really not that difficult to live in an off grid community - I wouldn't have it any other way - I have no need to shop for stuff made in China and watch mindless TV and work for someone else to pay taxes to a corrupt government

[@jacobc8019]

Alone in the Wilderness- why was his voice so squeaky?

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

That’s a really horrific way of dying, especially when kids are involved. Unfortunately, I think the pandemic exacerbated psychosis in many people prone to the condition. Thank you, Dr. Grande.❤

[@nhmooytis7058]

Agree. Some were already teetering on the edge and CONvid pushed them over. As a writer working at home already the only real changes in my life were getting groceries delivered and not getting a haircut for 2 years. And I was in AU which was locked down tight.

[@nturavrgchick6055]

​@@nhmooytis7058 I think society is going to be paying the price for this in many ways, including in some ways we aren't even aware of yet, and for a very long time. Possibly for several generations.

[@nhmooytis7058]

@@nturavrgchick6055 agree!

[@KittyGoldPaint]

​​​@@nhmooytis7058Why did you insist on calling it "CONvid?" My mother died from *covid* and my entire life has been ruined ever since. She was in denial, almost to the very end, as I could not even see her because I have a multitude of chronic illnesses and just living with her, put me at risk before she was hospitalized. I was told by her doctor, nurses and social worker, that she spent her last days depressed; which still haunts me to this very day. She had me at the top of her will to make any decisions about her, should she be in a position where there was no recourse, and she didn't want to be kept alive, only to suffer before the inevitable. We had many discussions about this decision, during the frequent hospital stays I've had throughout my entire fucking life. I occasionally shared rooms with vegetables, who's only function, was to release their bowls all day and get fed with a tube. She told me if that was ever her, she wanted to just be let go. You should have seen what her room looked like from her holing up in there, living in denial, with an under 80 oxygen rate! I tried to kill myself two weeks after she died, and still I have to hear people talk about "the big conspiracy" when I had to pull the goddamn plug on my mother because all her organs were shutting down, and she was going to feel that tube lodged in her throat. I chose compassion for a woman who was so wrapped up in conspiracies, that I had to keep my distance from her, because she could have infected me, and didn't pay me the same courtesy. Her doctor asked me if I had contact with her boyfriend. I said, never; he repulsed me. He said that was good, because apparently, my mother confessed to her nurse (probably an act of loneliness from being isolated) that her bf attended a "covid party," where the goal was to gain money. Last time my bf, and my family & I saw him, he insisted that it was "bad chicken" that made them sick and believed she was angry at him, and not really dead. My bf & my sister gave him directions to my mom's grave, where he could certainly peddle his ass on over to, because *of course* he didn't own a car! 🙄 People who knew her still wanted to be in denial. "But she had an ongoing issue, right?" No asshole, she believed Donald Trumps bullshit and hung around a moron without a mask. And before you assume; I *hate* democrats too. This isn't a partisan issue with me; it's my life! And clearly, I'm not okay, and ever since her death, more bullshit keeps happening to me. Because I'm chronically ill, I don't get to collect my inheritance, someone has to be in charge of me, and that's under any presidents rule; just like I can't marry my bf of 18 years or I'll lose my Medicare benefits. My family stole my money, and live in cozy houses & two story town houses, while I live in an inaccessible apartment on food stamps, where a guy got shot in the streets outside of our gated community, which serves no other purpose then to make it harder to receive packages and easier yet for them to get abandoned or stolen because *of course,* there is no code to get in, or a damn clicker; it's all for show. You probably didn't make it this far, and I'm just venting into the void. I don't care. My mom is gone, and everything has just gotten worse.

[@francinesanchez5402]

I agree.

[@brick6347]

There's a reason we have cities... because our ancestors figured out long ago that life in the wilderness is brutal and short. Siberia is 1.5x the size of the USA yet has a population of 7 for a reason.

[@KarisPigNose]

I've been there. You're not counting the thousands in exile there.

[@brick6347]

@@KarisPigNose it's called hyperbole. I am fully aware of it.

[@basedmod2139]

​@@KarisPigNoseautism detected

[@PerishingForLackOfKnowledge]

Don’t tell conservatives that. They HATE cities. They are terrified snowflakes. 😂

[@messrsandersonco5985]

The concept of towns and cities is to do with social co-operation and central resources. Humans have been successful because of social co-operation, specifically, sharing resources. This case is an example of the likely outcome of non-cooperation.

[@Dodgeowner]

I've gardened since I was able to walk. (Dad put me in there early!) I'm in my mid-sixties. I still have bad years. I'm very grateful that I can buy what it not successful. My issue is with folks that never garden and think it's like growing a house plant. Then they try it...they don't last past the hot days...

[@glow1815]

Right. Took me 3-4 years to be able to grow certain vegetables lol with lots of researched. Still can't get Potatoes to grow lol. Those two women are ignorant to the top

[@danielshy9176]

​@glow1815 very true. Some don't realize that you have to start easy and most everyday.

[@franklinrussell6862]

I lived off grid for 2 months, but we had a real cabin, wood fire stove, plenty of provisions and neighbors. Was an amazing experience but made me realize why living off grid isnt all its cracked up to be. You can go to "survive" and end up dying. Nature is dangerous, off grid is far away from emergency services if something goes wrong.

[@TiffWaffles]

It's impossible for me to feel any ounce of sympathy for the adults in this situation. The person I feel for the most here is that fourteen year old boy. If they wanted to live off the grid with zero wilderness survival skills that's on them as two grown ass adult women who were capable of making their own decisions is there right. What they did not have a right to do was to bring an innocent child into this.

[@maxshea1829]

Yeah, I know what you're saying. I do feel sympathy for them. Not that it makes what they did okay. I have a family member who is psychotic. You can try to talk sense to them, but it doesn't work. She hurt her child badly through abuse and neglect. Made me very mad at her. But there was nothing I could do in the end.

[@glow1815]

​@@maxshea1829there's is something you can do call CPS!

[@EN-kr3xt]

As sad as this story is, the reality is that 35% of our population live under these thoughts and beliefs. They identify as MAGA- and their cult leader is Mr Donald Trump.

[@music0cool]

Well I mean, clearly they were not capable of making their own decisions/taking care of themselves due to severe mental illness

[@kathleenbegley5730]

P

[@markiangooley]

When my family moved to a big ranch house with a somewhat-furnished basement when I was ten, I’d get exercise by running around hitting one of those super-bouncy balls and chasing after it. Living in that basement never struck me as something tolerable, but suppose that if I could tolerate it if I had nowhere else to live… Choosing to live in the wilderness at over 10,000 feet without proper gear just shows astounding ignorance.

[@messrsandersonco5985]

It should be up for a Darwin Award.

[@8bert9]

yeah, trying to live off grid at 10,000 feet is crazy.

[@marcseclecticstuff9497]

Funny, I've always enjoyed being in the basement, that's where I am right now. Have the entire house to myself yet I spend 90% of my time down here in my unfinished basement. Pretty much the only time I'm in the house proper is to eat and sleep. To put it in better perspective, I have an extensive electronics lab set-up, ham radio gear, 20+ guitars, and all my computer stuff down here thus why I spend so much of my time in the basement. As soon as it gets warm I'll be spending most of my time out in my machine shop or working in the garage.

[@strat1080]

Gunnison is a pretty brutally cold place. It may look nice in the summer but it’s like a completely different planet in the winter. They don’t call it the icebox of the US for nothing. They had no idea what they were getting themselves into

[@loiscassels8966]

I love Gunnison! My Aunt lived there and I visited many times. We’d always spend a day up in Crested Butte. Never went in the winter, though. Gorgeous country.❤️🇨🇦

[@traildoggy]

Agreed. I've spent decades living in the CO mountains, much of it in rustic cabins without electricity. Even people used to a cold midwest winter don't realize what it means when the winter snows kick into full gear in the spring and continue until May.

[@sooofunny37]

hmmmm@spinetingler-op6st

[@sapphira_isobel6975]

My first thought was that their first mistake was picking Gunnison. That place is brutally colder than most of the state in the winter.

[@absurdengineering]

Internet-trained survivalists don’t use internet to look up yearly weather patterns at the place they want to move to? Sigh.

[@DottieMinerva]

Poor Talen 😢 He really had no say in this. Sounds like the sisters were exhibiting signs of Folie à deux.

[@sooofunny37]

I Don't speak French, but my Google search tells me it's a type of wine.

[@DottieMinerva]

@joan-lisa-smith yes, ik I watched the video. He didn’t mention the term and I commented while watching.

[@DottieMinerva]

@joan-lisa-smith I know. I watched it. I heard him discuss it. He didn’t mention the name of the disorder

[@GalinaEv]

How old was he? I think i missed that

[@knrdvmmlbkkn]

@@GalinaEv"How old was (...) [I] missed that" You did. It was mentioned at 14:29. 13.

[@HotHamWater22]

How does someone watch their child shiver and starve?! I have no sympathy whatsoever for those women.

[@EN-kr3xt]

As sad as this story is, the reality is that 35% of our population live under these thoughts and beliefs. They identify as MAGA- and their cult leader is Mr Donald Trump.

[@deborahblackvideoediting8697]

If they had just gone themselves, I would feel bad for them. But the fact that they let poor Talon wither away and die definitely doesn't evoke sympathy. That poor boy.

[@lisetteeliseparis7070]

I don't either, they let that poor boy croak right in front of them.

[@ampa4989]

They obviously used their car unwisely. They probably drove around to look for firewood or food or maybe even ran it for heat. They deluded themselves that they'd make it by looking for or using resources that way. Or maybe they tried to drive into town when they finally realized what was happening, but they hadn't enough gas and was forced to abandon the car. They ran out of fuel and that was it. The boy had the least fat reserves, so he went first. If they could have given their life so the boy could have lived, they would have, but there was no way out without a car and gasoline. They were mentally ill, not callous.

[@adriel7229]

​@@ampa4989I agree. They were delusional enough to think they could make it through a Colorado winter in the mountains in a tent "living off the land." They didn't plan for running out of gas or the mountain roads becoming impassable. I would be very interested to know the location of the car relative to them and the conditions of the roads and weather at the time it was found and before (when it was abandoned.) I think this is very parallel to Chris McCandless, they didn't realize how much trouble they were in until they were too weak and the conditions made it too difficult/impossible to get out.

[@lindawilson4625]

What a horrible story. Poor Talon. He never had a chance. Thank you, Dr. Grande! I think a DA would probably call it manslaughter.

[@sharonthompson672]

Or not criminally responsible due to disease or mental defect.

[@scottricci5063]

Yeah, but how do you defecate next to your child's corpse? Did they wipe themselves on his t-shirt for damn sake? Very lucky there weren't bears or wolves there to investigate the rotting flesh. That would have been a much hellish death. Crackpots, the lot of them.

[@totallyfrozen]

If the theory is correct that Talon died first, it’s probable that they worked him to death. He was the young male. It’s likely they tasked him with all the manual labor tasks such as gathering firewood. There wasn’t enough food or water for them. If they didn’t directly murder him, they worked him to death.

[@allysonlewis1730]

You know if they had shared their plan on social media anyone that expressed shock or concern about the minor child would be accused of bullying or being a Karen. People only want to wave their “see something, say something” banner after the tragedy has played out.

[@jadeddragon4254]

Yeah, blame the media mostly. There's your perpetrator

[@Auntie-Sara]

From a NEW YORK POST article I learned the sister's were loved by those who tried to help. Below is part of the conversation with step-sister Trevala. ✝🕊 Trevala Kowalski Jara said she pleaded with her stepsisters to go slow and test out living off the grid on a property, that she and her husband, Charles Jara, own in the mountains, that uses a generator. But she said Rebecca Vance declined. ✝🕊None of them were known to be skilled in the outdoors. The sisters had explained in vague terms to other family members that they were going out of state, Jara said, but wouldn't detail exactly why and where. ✝🕊"If you think you can go live off the grid and do it by just watching KZbin and the internet, think twice," Jara said. "You need to experience it first."

[@bubbabroad9051]

Remember that when Dr Grande said the temp was 0, that was Fahrenheit which is -17 Celsius 🥶.

[@capq57]

Even people who know what they are getting into, and far better prepared, often find permanent off-grid living to be a lot more brutal than they anticipated. These two didn't even know how to organize a short-term camping trip, much less a lifetime of living off the land.

[@PeterRabbit70]

capq57, I still have an equipment list in my 1965 Boy Scout manual that I made for a 2 day camping trip. The waterproof match safe and dry tinder was always on that list. But I do not get how the hunger alone did not drive these women to walk to town/other humans. Hunger is a powerful motivator.

[@ohsweetmystery]

At that altitude, almost impossible to live on your own, except perhaps as a hunter with plenty of ammo stocked up.

[@JimmyMon666]

@@ohsweetmystery Not that much to hunt at that altitude either. Especially in Winter. Read up on the Donner party. They had nothing to hunt.

[@jeffgarmon1]

Yep. Someone like Jeremiah Johnson@@ohsweetmystery

[@ThreenaddiesRexMegistus]

Living off-grid still requires structure and resources. Food is not abundant nor easily obtained and even experienced outdoor types still need to maintain a connection with civilisation to obtain the necessities. Not only was that kid helpless, but the incredible boredom on the way to eventual demise would have been crushing. Unremitting toil is the way of subsistence living and these people were unprepared for this reality. And yes, I’ve lived without modern conveniences and in relative isolation but have no great desire to repeat it. It still requires money, adequate shelter and effective transport. I was hunting successfully for food but that gets old quickly and this was in a temperate climate. You’ll eventually crave coffee, tea, fruits, vegetables and need kerosene, salt, tobacco if inclined, medications, entertainment, and none of these are to be had in a tent in a national park in freezing weather. We have all evolved well past medieval peasants and these people seemed oblivious to the fact they’d returned to a much earlier time period than even that without any clue how to survive in it. Even hunter-gatherers had community and specialisations. They also rarely lived much past their thirties.

[@carlamarlene2927]

And it takes the spring and summer to prepare for it.

[@messrsandersonco5985]

The concept of towns and cities is to do with social co-operation and central resources. Humans have been successful because of social co-operation, specifically, sharing resources. This case is an example of the likely outcome of non-cooperation.

[@NauerBauer]

Whenever I go backpacking, I miss food with flavor.

[@nanettevantriesteharder2469]

@@messrsandersonco5985 The ascending stages of play-learning, which develop the human brain from womb to tomb are meant to enable communication, cooperation, collaboration, coordination, correction, commitment, and compromise. Exposure to ACEs short-circuits neurobiology.

[@maxshea1829]

You should have been there to tell it to those ladies. Not that they would have listened.

[@michelegyselinck5400]

You said something about them no longer taking their medication. That probably accounts for their becoming increasongly paranoid.

[@Cjdub357WestCoastUltimo-gd8rv]

Or the medications rotted their mind to this point...

[@EB-wl9st]

Question: when their car was found abandoned, wouldn't that have prompted authorities to investigate and ultimately lead to them having been found? Was their car just simply towed away?

[@TurbulentFlow]

I thought the same thing, this would have been the perfect time for a search to be done. At the very least the young boy could have been removed for the situation and ultimately, potentially saved.

[@sheilad.simonette6412]

I had the same question. It was deeply concerning to me. And when they requested money, wouldn't that have been an opportunity to get an idea of their location to check on things. Where was the father?

[@jeannelind8908]

Gunnison Colorado is brutally cold and freezing during fall, winter and spring. The coldest, the longest and very rural. Miles is dence evergreens in every direction.Think "Call of the Wild" and "White Fang" with thicker forest. Experienced survivors of the wilderness would be challenged. Plus the bears, moose, elk, wolves etc. would be a constant threat. It's unimaginable to think their skills ( or lack there of) could sustain them. Especially with a child. Their own delusional thoughts though was their worst enemy. I'm from Durango Co. And have been through the area many times. Thank you Dr. Grande once again for your insight.

[@EarthborneArt]

Poor Talon he didn't stand a chance. RIP

[@boscarinoma2305]

Death by ignorance. So devastatingly tragic.

[@francinesanchez5402]

Psychosis. Schizoid can give someone the feeling they are special and the rules that apply to others don’t apply to them. I think a young child must know it’s not a good idea to be in the snow without gear for extended periods. I wonder how much the young boy felt he was in danger.

[@zoer7338]

​@@francinesanchez5402I would have brought a journal, can't imagine secluding myself without one, and how interesting I would find their thoughts during that time.

[@megalopolis2015]

If you're looking to Live off the grid, going somewhere that is brutally cold and liberally inhabited by bears and mountain lions might not be the wisest option. Considering they knew next to nothing about survival, it was, obviously, suicidal. It's heartbreaking that a boy was caught up in this. It's one thing to believe in some of the conspiracies that rear their heads (especially the Bond Villains in WEF), but we all have to be very careful to not lose our Lives and freedom due to our own choices, which in this case was far worse than almost anything the elite political underground could come up with.

[@SecretMarsupial]

There are so many legitimate criticism of the WEF that the only conspiracy theorists are the ones who pretend as if nothing is amiss.

[@trixie9777]

These “bond villains” have *openly* said that we “will own nothing & be happy.”

[@Souleater7777]

Yet, we are the conspiracy theorists.

[@megalopolis2015]

@@trixie9777 I never said I didn't believe it. My mind is blown by how insanely transparent they are. :0)

[@AngelicaHots]

The WEF is a conspiracy theory? The amount of uneducated people on this channel is astounding. Do you even know what a conspiracy means? It means a secret. The WEF literally explains their totalitarian agenda in their own publications and conferences. With all due respect, you've got to have the IQ of a peanut to just be calling it a conspiracy theory, when it is the exact opposite of a secret plot, and is being done in broad day light with plenty of strong evidence from all angles. You folks call anything a conspiracy theory that requires you to think and look beyond the surface level.

[@nounae7409]

What I love the most about Dr. Grande's analysis is his subtle humor!

[@isabellind1292]

Me too! It so unexpected, lol! I really enjoyed that he and his lovely wife invited viewers into their home at Christmastime so we could see their festively, decorated home and see their two adorable dogs.

[@erinthesystem9608]

It's sad that [unmedicated] people became so frightened by society that they believed they somehow stood a better chance in the wilderness. Had they been in a realistic frame of mind, it would have been clear that this was a terrible idea. I have minimal experience, and it has taught me that I am no match for the untamed elements, or for untraversed paths.

[@messrsandersonco5985]

I would go as far as to say, this wasn't just folie à deux, but both women were grossly overweight which strongly indicates that they didn't believe in exercise, and would never have been able to keep up with the physical activity required to live off the grid - looking for food, preparing food, looking for and chopping wood to keep warm, etc. Dr. Grande's reasoning is the same for arguing that the Nebraska woman who insisted on a home birth despite all medical warnings, was negligent and caused a homicide when her baby actually died.

[@twiceshy9773]

That's because the more you know, the more you realise you don't know. But "those people" think they know everything already!! I feel terrible for the kid but good for them, finally being able to keep the weight off, huzzah🙄

[@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823]

Then I'll bet she tried to sue everyone in the vicinity. See "The Baby Catcher." By Peggy Vincent.

[@EN-kr3xt]

As sad as this story is, the reality is that 35% of our population live under these thoughts and beliefs. They identify as MAGA- and their cult leader is Mr Donald Trump.

[@WattisWatts]

Conspiracies aside, it can be very dangerous to think one is special enough to "get it" and think the wilderness will open it's welcoming arms. Just ask The Grizzly Man .

[@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823]

He was just BEGGING to be mauled, come on. Dumb luck he made it as long as he did.

[@janawild4582]

We farm and ranch. I remember during the whole Y2K thing in 1999 when everyone thought the computers were gonna go down there was a couple that bought a little land out in the country close to us 😂😂 they started trying to kinda live off the grid. They didn’t tell us it was because of Y2K, but we knew why they were there. anyway they even had electricity! and still found it a little harder to live out in the country than they thought, because they sure hightailed it back to the city right after the new year. never saw them again😂😂

[@maxshea1829]

According to the map, Gunnison Nat'l Forest is pretty remote, but it is in a national park, and the Vances were a short walk from a patrolled road. Authorities could have done more footwork rather than just towing the car. But they didn't. That's what makes it such a sad and scary story. Dumb ideas can be deadly.

[@zenawarrior7442]

How sad they were so ill prepared, suffered a terrible death. Agree with your analysis and great points. Thanks Dr G😊🧡🧡

[@justinm3745]

When I was in college, I went along with my friends on what seemingly was a fun camping trip. I have never been and figured why not. I barely prepared and didn't really pack anything but a sleeping bag, some snacks, and I layered up. It was behind my friend's house, about a mile into the woods on his property. We crossed a creek, set up a tent, drank some scotch and made a fire. It was a decent time, but then the temperature dropped to around 35 degrees when the sun set. It was pitch black, I was shivering so much due to my sleeping bag being too small (LOL), my socks were lowkey wet from crossing the creek even with waterproof boots, owls creepily hooted all night, and we were set up behind this 6 foot deep creek. Which we were not going to attempt to cross. I was essentially trapped for 10 hours in this tent with my friends and could nothing else but take the pain and shiver. I believe I was on the edge of getting hypothermia for the entire time. I barely slept! This very humbling experience taught me how powerless you can be in nature without proper preparation.

[@jeffgarmon1]

Yes I can relate. Great thing to reflect on throughout life. Like Clint Eastwood said... " A man's got to know his limitations".

[@justinm3745]

@@jeffgarmon1 hopefully one can learn them without losing their life first! So sad this little boy needlessly died out in the wilderness .

[@mlee81]

I actually had a similar situation. Went camping down a river during the summer and didn't find out until we got to our first site I forgot my clothes (i was planning on using a sweat shirt inplace of a sleeping bag(!. All I had was a wet pair of swim trunks and a wet muscle shirt on. We went for a small swim while it was still light. I didn't think of the temps going down and that the fire while large wouldn't completely help with a wind chill factor. Went to lay down took all my wet clothes off and was basically naked wrapping my sleeping pad around my body. I could feel my body temp wasn't keeping up and broke down asking a buddy for a shirt. (I'm pretty stubborn lol).. Anyways first on the checklist now is clothes lol, followed by emergency blankets and don't get clothes wet before dark even in the heat of summer in WV. Heated rocks is also helpful but potentially hazardous lol

[@justinm3745]

@@mlee81 humbling for sure

[@johannageisel5390]

I learned slowly on festival camping sites. ^ ^ First year in Bavarian Siberia, we froze our butts off. Second year we brought an extra insulating mat (under our normal ones) and I always pack a rescue blanket now too. Rescue blankets really save you: You can wrap them around your sleeping bag for instant increase in warmth, but you can also tape them over your tent in the day to keep it cooler inside, if necessary. They come in small packages, are very light and waterproof (though you will get condensation on the inside over time). Always take a rescue blanket with you when you go camping!

[@rayross997]

If they wanted to live off grid, they could have moved to New Jersey. Take care Dr. Grande.

[@nhmooytis7058]

You mean apart from civilization 😂😂😂

[@chudleyflusher7132]

@@nhmooytis7058 👍👏

[@ducksinarowpatience]

Why NJ?

[@nhmooytis7058]

@@ducksinarowpatience joke

[@vivaciousom5347]

@@ducksinarowpatience Dr. Grande roasts NJ anytime the story includes NJ. Many funny put downs exist in his videos.

[@jizmoglass4202]

I was actually born in Gunnison, Co. That's what is says on my birth certificate. Jan 30, 1983. Gunnison Co. I'm a ski bum. Moved to Minnesota and moved back to Co, after graduating high school. lived out there for the better part of a decade after 02' , worked at a couple ski resorts, Was a foreman. had my own truck. then stuff got weird. Been back in Mn for over a decade now with family. I miss the mountains. Crested Butte. Just amazing. there's some creepy stories indeed with the locals. Heck, I had a bear in my porch eating my garbage once. Might as well have been a samsquamch. smelled like one. Cheers brother. love your channel.

[@jizmoglass4202]

sorry for the paragraph. just truth. AMA

[@julietrudgill9887]

My father and his siblings were all farm workers in Norfolk, England during the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, some having life long careers on the land until fairly recently. I was raised in London and always worried that us city folks were like tame, pet animals compared to my country folks who could and would live off the land if the sh*t hit the fan. Those sisters were utterly insane to believe they could survive off the land, and criminally culpable for dragging that poor child along.

[@neilreynolds3858]

I lived off the grid for 30 years but I knew what I was doing. It was paradise.

[@TigersandBearsOhMy]

Oh my god. I was just listening as I made dinner and I missed Talon's age at the beginning. When you said he was 40lbs when found, I was thinking around five years old. Then you said he was 13!! I looked up a few more details, and this boy was 5'3". That's taller than me. To think he only weighed 40lbs is unimaginable... My 1 year old girl is 25lbs. 40lbs for a 13 year old boy? It's incomprehensible. Google says the average weight for a 13 year old is 100lbs. Jeeze.

[@nhmooytis7058]

I’m 5’3” and at one point due to depression was 92 pounds and looked like death warmed over. 40 pounds just blows my mind.

[@yeahB]

But he was mummified and dead for some months when they all were found

[@markstevenson6635]

It's from starving to death.

[@13donstalos]

Yeah he dead

[@knrdvmmlbkkn]

"When you said (...) five years old. I'm reasonably sure he weighed more than that when he died, but got freeze-dried.

[@glendasully]

I feel so sad for the young boy. I'm surprised that he didn't steal the car keys & leave his crazy mother & aunt in the woods

[@muchtested]

What was left out is, the half-sister offered them an RV to take with them. They could have more warmth and supplies, but Rebecca turned it down although Christine wanted to accept it.

[@stephenie44]

It’s amazing they were only 1000 feet from other campers/a mountain road and at no point did any 3 of them appear to try and flag down any help. I know less people camp in the winter, but some still do! Or they drive by, at least. Makes you wonder what the kid went through…

[@secretamericayoutubechanne2961]

I did my own video called 3 mummified campers found dead by ld brite/ I discovered that there was 3 or 4 different structures only 1 to 2 miles away. That boy could have found that structure or houses and told them his Mom was crazy. Strange he chose to starve to death instead.

[@secretamericayoutubechanne2961]

There was a tiny town just 3 or so miles down the mountains

[@shedokoye8314]

They were probably determined to die in the wilderness, otherwise they had ample time and opportunity to reverse course. I only feel bad for the helpless young kid

[@dinkyboss]

What confuses me is that if they were so inclined to do something like this why weren’t they also equally motivated to do research and try go about it the right way? Maybe it’s a dumb question, but if you’ve already convinced yourself that it’s a good idea to live off the grid wouldn’t you naturally be committing to doing it correctly as well? Like invested in researching your new life plan.

[@zoer7338]

I'm convinced that they hadn't imagined their car being towed. Obviously there was no way to "reverse course" after that because they were stranded.

[@cecilr7986]

This story is so sad Dr. Grande. I particularly feel bad for the poor child whose life was cut short by these two.

[@johnnylogan5927]

I live in Gunnison and have been very interested in this story since it happened. You cant just go "off grid" here in a tent because of the extreme cold and i live off grid in a skoolie with a woodstove. What surprises me is that there are active mines just down the road from where they were found. I pan for gold in that creek and i backcountry ski out there during the winter. Why did they not leave when it got tough or was it too late already? That poor boy suffered the worst but dang i cant imagine and i have winter gear.

[@MegaLivingIt]

It seems like the women were basically frightened and isolated in their situation. I feel sorry for them and not critical. Beautiful country but harsh without adequate shelter. 🧡🌿

[@TheScapegoat420]

Jesus. This one was horrifying Dr G. Thank you for a video every day. You are a G!

[@Laulie98]

Sad about the kid but hard to feel too bad for the sisters.

[@valhoundmom]

I dont feel bad for self-inflicted misery and tragedy

[@lizzy8243]

​​@@valhoundmomThat would be directly or indirectly a huge percentage of misery in this world. We usually are the source of our own misery in one way or the other. The self awareness to correct is important. Hope you have it and unfortunately these sisters didn't. That's sad and it's even more sad that they harmed an innocent teen. He didn't have a chance.

[@EN-kr3xt]

As sad as this story is, the reality is that 35% of our population live under these thoughts and beliefs. They identify as MAGA- and their cult leader is Mr Donald Trump.

[@music0cool]

@@lizzy8243 Well said. People are too simplistic in assigning blame sometimes

[@morganminpin]

I spent four years living in Massena, New York as a child. The first winter we were there the temperature dropped to -48 degrees F. Schools were closed and people were told to stay indoors. Subsequent winters were "milder" with lows around -40 F. I can't imagine trying to live off-grid in similar conditions. We also had ice storms that took out the electricity and heat. No way to live in a tent with that kind of weather.

[@Kookia220]

Subscribed to this channel today, sooo many fascinating videos and I love that they are not too long 👌👌👌

[@amyhenningsgard8618]

Welcome! His videos are awesome!🎉

[@liz8935]

My mom was born and raised in Lake City CO. It was really rough then and it is still rough -- 8700 feet above sea level = thin air.

[@dusttodust4295]

This tragedy deserves solemnity.

[@Ariadne76-k3d]

That level of stupidity does not deserve solemnity.

[@emc129]

Here are my thoughts: they were nuts. I feel sad for the kid but where was the Dad? They did their own research, that says it all.

[@DomoArigatoRobot0]

Rebecca didn't want a relationship with Eric, the biological dad. So he was kept away, and I presume didn't try hard enough to be in his boy's life.

[@leannemo7382]

Doing your own research is good, when sane.

[@GigiRulesTheRoost]

"Family Disaster" is right. This was just awful. Poor young man. Gosh, the suffering they all went through.

[@Verosmom123]

It’s amazing how unaware these conspiracy theorists are about their own craziness. Instead they firmly believe they hold all the answers.🤦🏻‍♀️

[@sharonthompson672]

No, they firmly believed the garbage they read on the Internet.

[@nanettevantriesteharder2469]

@@be.prepared.to.do.that. In my opinion, over-generalizations are problematic. I would argue that believing in nothing is inconsistent with human life, as is a mere human being apart from God believing that he or she is the sole repository of all wisdom. Some beliefs are true, others are not. If a belief is true, it can and should be tested, until it is a given. That is how theories become universal laws. Some people cling to false beliefs because it is a part of their background legacies, family heritages, peer groups, cultures, etc.

[@nanettevantriesteharder2469]

@@be.prepared.to.do.that. There are concrete beliefs that one or more people can test with their senses (e.g., "If it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, it is a duck.) and there are abstract beliefs, like metaphysics (i.e., the branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space.), which may or may not include include a belief in God. For instance, mathematics is the abstract science of number, quantity, and space. Mathematics may be studied in its own right (pure mathematics), or as it is applied to other disciplines such as physics and engineering (applied mathematics). The Mandelbrot set is a particular set of complex numbers which has a highly convoluted fractal boundary when plotted. The Mandelbrot Set is called "God's thumbprint." The thumbprint is a good point of comparison, for, while every thumbprint looks different, every thumbprint also looks like a thumbprint. While such fractals never repeat themselves, nor do they ever (in any meaningful sense of the word) change. First Corinthians 14:33 (NIV) says, "For God is not a God of disorder but of peace-as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people." In putting on the full armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-20), we are reminded that Acts 17:11 (NIV) says, "Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."

[@nanettevantriesteharder2469]

@@be.prepared.to.do.that. Metaphysics is he branch of philosophy that deals with the first principles of things, including abstract concepts such as being, knowing, substance, cause, identity, time, and space. Mathematics is the abstract science of number, quantity, and space. Mathematics may be studied in its own right (pure mathematics), or as it is applied to other disciplines such as physics and engineering (applied mathematics). A fractal is a curve or geometric figure, each part of which has the same statistical character as the whole. Fractals are useful in modeling structures (such as eroded coastlines or snowflakes) in which similar patterns recur at progressively smaller scales, and in describing partly random or chaotic phenomena such as crystal growth, fluid turbulence, and galaxy formation. The Mandelbrot set (i.e., the thumbprint of God) is a particular set of complex numbers which has a highly convoluted fractal boundary when plotted (1 Corinthians 14:33).

[@Verosmom123]

@@be.prepared.to.do.that. I don’t think so. I don’t follow any religion nor I blindingly believe what other people say.

[@rocroc]

Excellent analysis of a horrible tragedy.

[@jospenner9503]

Living off the grid requires a lot of money to buy supplies. I would like to do it myself, but I'm too poor. 😞

[@WilliamReinhard-d9x]

Thank you, sir, for all your hard work with these vidoes. My wife and I now cast KZbin on our tv to watch your shows together each evening. Your consistency is wonderful and doesn't go unappreciated. We enjoy your knowledgeable information and humor very much.

[@Damnitspam]

Thanks for the uploads Dr Grande ❤

[@Qetesh777]

Doing your own research or connecting events does not equal - insane or unhinged. Distancing or isolating yourself is unhealthy..yet the WEF, the push to transhumanism is not a conspiracy , it’s not hidden but can be seen on any major scientific journal.

[@cindymichel4870]

But moving to a tent in the wilderness with no supplies or hunting/fishing experience, in a place that gets as cold as Gunnison is pretty crazy.

[@Qetesh777]

@@cindymichel4870 yes they were insane… just saying that you can put things together and notice trends, that doesn’t equate to insanity. What they did was insane thinking that because of trends the solution is insanity is wrong.

[@alukuhito]

Distancing and isolating yourself can be very healthy.

[@Qetesh777]

@@alukuhito that’s true. I should clarify that when you are in need of help isolating is dangerous. I guess the problem is many of us are unable to accurately identify when that is.

[@alukuhito]

@@Qetesh777 Yeah, and you also have to be open to learning because nature is always going to teach you lessons. It seems they were stubborn people, not willing to adapt. Cans of food don't grow in the wild.

[@lisabelle7553]

I still have so many questions about how this happened. Barely 2 months and they starved to death? Wasn't there a point at which they could still get in their car and drive out when they couldn't find food resources? I feel so bad for Talon, and for all the children who are subject to their insane and abusive parents. Children are the world's most innocent victims.

[@mjk6618]

Perhaps they were afraid to venture out or away from their tent... Maybe something was lurking in those woods, hence the Rosary. No one knows.... They say "never venture away from the light of your Campfire" for a reason ..

[@agnediciuniene9861]

In general maybe one could expect to survive off the land somewhere with warm climate and abundant wild life, hunting. Expecting to survive off the land without experience and knowledge anywhere with a cold season is plain dumb.

[@TiffWaffles]

Even if they were expecting to survive off the land without experience in a warm climate and abundant wildlife, I suspect that the outcome would have been the same. They wouldn't have known how to live off the land or how to hunt.

[@allieeverett9017]

I live in southern NM, a nice 3 season climate if you can take the heat. But when it gets cold here, car doors freeze shut. And it sticks. The wind blows 50 miles an hour for days on end. I see a tent or two set up by the railroad tracks and think...naw...can't be for real...

[@carlamarlene2927]

I think they never heard of the Donner party. It's a running joke in our family. When we see snow on the mts we say, hey how bouts we try to get through the mountains just by walking. Not enough food. Sure lets go for it.

[@CanYouHearMeNow929]

Check out the story of Alferd Packer.

[@artmallory970]

I doubt anyone would eat these clowns - they'd taste funny... SMH

[@carlamarlene2927]

@@CanYouHearMeNow929 ya those guys too. I've heard SOOOO many ppl say "when the shit goes down, I'm going to the mountains" I always tell em "ya you and everybody else. I'm staying put"

[@CanYouHearMeNow929]

​@@carlamarlene2927lol That happened in the Gunnison area, his second trial was in Gunnison I believe.

[@ceciliapetrowsky2572]

So disturbing! Poor boy. I’m confused about where the car was. Wouldn’t it have been at the campsite? If it hadn’t been towed, it would have saved their lives. How can you watch survival videos and not learn anything? Bizarre and sad.

[@ampa4989]

I bet they used the car to look for food or firewood or even as a source of heat. They realized too late that they were in dire straits and tried to drive into town but ran out of fuel on the way. They abandoned the car and returned to the campsite instead of trying to walk into civilization. Very sad.

[@mcsmaria28]

I believe the car was towed in November 22ish? At least that’s what I saw on another KZbin video on this case and I think they (the other KZbinr )was reading the police report.

[@DwightPouer]

The best thing about being a conspiracy theorist, is not having myocarditis.

[@EnvironmentalCoffeehouse]

But they are dead.

[@martamariotto1181]

Amen 😆🤗

[@martamariotto1181]

@@EnvironmentalCoffeehouse I am not.

[@angelicahancock7939]

​@@EnvironmentalCoffeehousewe are not dead, even tho we were told we had a winter of death ahead of us. Anything to scare us into taking their subscription vax

[@ohioplayer-bl9em]

Strokes suck as well.

[@totallyfrozen]

I grew up in Alaska, spent 32 years there. Lived rural, through high school I harvested firewood, tended a garden, fed some livestock, etc. I’ve done a lot of camping and even spent a few years in the Army. I know just enough to know I’d never try what those women did-especially in the mountains of Colorado! Those fools had no idea what they’re were getting into. Certain death.

[@nhmooytis7058]

I’m lucky I haven’t killed off my little herb garden 😊

[@shirleygriffin7672]

Excellent and thanks for sharing today.. sad story

[@Tukapel]

I'm glad I've found your channel again, I like your nuanced and sober narrative

[@stuarta4393]

Where I'm located the child's death would not fall into the category of murder but rather manslaughter. Perhaps there are jurisdictional differences. A sad situation either way.

[@johannageisel5390]

Maybe he used it in a conversational, not in a legal sense. But yes, here in Germany it would also not count as murder because it was without intent. Negligient manslaughter, unless they were deemed too mentally ill to be guilty.

[@littlemissliv100]

Thanks Dr. G for another great video!

[@marijo1951]

When the boy didn't return to school, were no enquiries made by the school or the local child social services? Was his father not interested in his well-being?

[@carlamarlene2927]

Homeschooling wins again

[@GoodnightJLH]

Dr. Grande mentioned that Talon was not returned to school when in person schooling resumed. I assume he was listed as being home schooled. We don’t know what Talon’s father thought or did. I hope he did SOMETHING.

[@cassiefuchs3657]

There should have at least been a search conducted when they found that car.

[@JSTHEKING101]

Thank you for making this video, Dr. Grande. I have a couple family members who share the same fanatical beliefs that she does and all the same symptoms you described are the ones they share... homicidal thoughts, paranoid stalking delusions, connections between unrelated events, etc. I like to hope otherwise but its scary how close they are to becoming like Rebecca and sentencing their own very young children to a similar fate. It's so difficult to help them out of this hole when there's so much malicious misinformation on the internet and all they think they can trust are their own thoughts and knowledge, which is often overestimated. This video helps to remind me that with beliefs like these, people with unchecked mental illnesses will often drag other people into it and harm them as well.

[@carolroberts8930]

I have seen conspiracy theories take root in the mind of my ex-husband and now one of my sons, 30+ years later. Can't change their perspective with logic/reasoning or even with historical evidence that the heart of these conspiracy theories has been around for hundreds of years in one form or another with interest gradually receding, only to resurrect several decades later with a bit of current events woven into the theory each time, convincing the gullible that the conditions are surely upon them and they must take action to survive an apocalypse. I am 82 years old and have witnessed this phenomenon in the 80s-90s and now again since covid first came on the scene, as usual accompanied by hyperfixation on an impending apocalypse/world-wide catastrophe. It is so sad to see this "conspiracy virus" take hold of someone, but as Solomon once said, there is "...nothing new under the sun." Hope many people watch your video and also read the comments.

[@Alice-ov3rd]

Poor Talon. Would this be an example of folie à deux?

[@sstteev]

This is so chilling. (pun not intended, I swear)

[@blackitikatt533]

Dr. Grande, to say that those women are criminals and committed a homicide is extreme! 😟 They had never been diagnosed or treated for scisophrenia according to this narrative. They were acting in good faith and thought they were protecting themselves and the boy from harm. Millions of people had psychological breaks from reality under the weight of the pandemic and some even took their own lives. 💔 Yes, this young man lost his life but so did they. They never meant to hurt anyone. Have a little mercy on them; this is a tragic story for everyone involved. 😥

[@martamariotto1181]

He doesn't cause unfortunately he is very judgemental.

[@philipd4466]

This is like Chris McCandless times a hundred!

[@elainegreen5855]

Nice, accurate use of the Plural Posessive- Sisters' Well done, Sir. Most people don't even know it exists

[@kimmccabe1422]

During the start of Covid til now, like almost 3 years, my brother in law retired to a part of the house and only talks to everyone from a far. By trying to live healthy, he is not living at all. Not my choice.

[@featheredskeptic1301]

"I did my own research." - When you hear this coming from a layman in the field discussed, you know the very next thing they are going to say is going to be an idiocy, and that they are conspiracy a theorist. This sounds to me as a mixture of both schizophrenia and a severe case of the Dunning - Kruger effect. Some people who knew nothing of surviving in the wilderness and farming decided to live off grid in the wilderness and farm their own food (no doubt thinking it's an easy thing to do) in order to escape an imaginary threat. This is why critical thinking and science education are important.

[@nhmooytis7058]

I did my own research when I was diagnosed with breast cancer before making my treatment choices, 30 years later I’m alive and healthy. Every single woman in my supper group who blindly listened to the doctors was DEAD within 2 years. Including one whose pathology report was identical to mine.

[@featheredskeptic1301]

@@nhmooytis7058 Really? Good for you. And have you considered that you could have simply had a spontaneous remission instead of thinking you know better than the best educated experts anywhere ever? Guess not. Also according to statistics on breast cancer over 90% of women survive 5 years after the diagnosis. How come everyone but you was dead within 2 years? Could it be that there's some cherry picking going on with your memory of the events, remembering only the lethal cases, and ignoring everyone who got better, or lived longer?

[@nhmooytis7058]

@@featheredskeptic1301 spontaneous remission where do you trollboys get this garbage? Your bosses at YT?

[@nhmooytis7058]

@@featheredskeptic1301 oh and your 90% survival rate is sheer BS. My prognosis was 20% chance to be around in 5 years and a possibility I’d die in 6 months. Hoe dare a lying shill tell me my experience means nothing? Hope YOU get some up close and personal experience with a terminal diagnosis. SOON. Address me again and I’ll report you for harassment.

[@featheredskeptic1301]

@@nhmooytis7058 It's an observed phenomena that is extremely rare, and can occur in any patient, regardless of their age, sex, race, etnicity, and any other criteria. I didn't get this from any bosses of mine, and I'm not trolling. There's plenty of medical literatture on this that you can easilly find, provided you can actually do a research.

[@crabofchaos7881]

I understand you putting the blame on women for the death of the child, but I'd say this constitutes manslaughter, they did not have malicious intent, but it was criminally negligent.

[@Joe-Przybranowski]

I left Chicago during the peaceful rioting and arson for forty acres in Arizona for many of the same reasons they did. Four years later I'm still breathing.

[@MsQ275]

I left the Bay for same peaceful protesting. I'm still surviving in a rural farming community, but I do go to a grocery store

[@PerishingForLackOfKnowledge]

God, not many people can afford to just get up and leave. Talk about unrecognized privilege. The hardest working people in America are the poorest and that is a failure in our economic system.

[@Hatbox948]

Exactly.

[@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823]

Get onto the trades. Marry and don't have any kids.

[@Joe-Przybranowski]

It's hilarious that you think I'm privileged. I took my covid money and put it in crypto. Anybody could have done that. But keep crying about privilege if you want.

[@joseramirez-sz9yo]

Gunnison CO can get very cold sooner than you think at that time of year

[@carole12498]

I live in Colorado and Gunnison is very cold even during the summer!

[@Casinogirl56]

I always say that if the apocalypse comes I'll be one of the first to die. My idea of roughing it is a hotel with slow wifi. That being said if you're an adult and want to go off on an "adventure" do so, but leave kids out of your delusion. That poor kid, how he must have suffered before he died. RIP.😢😢😢

[@anomboing]

The fact that his father had no care to even check up on his son makes me a little livid, we don't know the situation but not even hell could keep me from my son, I hope it haunts him 😢 and that the son is resting in peace

[@jnelson3792]

I know that area very well. Unforgiving country if not prepared.

[@EnvironmentalCoffeehouse]

This was really well done Dr. Grande. We truly live in tragic times.

[@lolapalacios1654]

This is so sad, so tragic. The poor boy, he should have been left with another family member. Family and friends the two sisters had should have reported them to the proper authorities, as a child under the age of 18 was involved.

[@Heidirclark]

This happened a few hours away from where I live and we never understood this bizarre case. Thanks so much for covering this! I always felt so sad for the son because he apparently didn’t want to go.

[@censorbleep3018]

"Doing your own research" is a powerful drug.

[@lusomarga]

doing your own research = googling random shit and trash forums

[@kennyg1358]

Doing your own research is fine. that's not what most peope really do though.

[@leavemealoneandgoaway]

you mean "reading"?

[@katfayegarrett3872]

Doing your own research...like reading and critical thinking?

[@PerishingForLackOfKnowledge]

They always pick and choose what they believe too😂

[@elizabethwarman9028]

Hi Dr Grande, good morning from a very wet Southern California. This is a sad case. I agree with you that Talon's death is the sisters responsibility. If you know nothing about living off the grid--than don't. As always I learn something new from your videos.

[@jaednhowlar2359]

There are definitely scary things in modern life, and evil people, but we are far away from being in a time where society is scarier than nature!

[@RepentfollowJesus]

We live in the countryside. Cities are that dangerous now. I was born in one and stayed until I was 38. You could not pay me to live in a city again. It's not convenient sometimes but it beats being shot for changing lanes on a freeway.

[@martamariotto1181]

Oh no. We are not far away. Just a few years past concentration camps. And in the middle of another, much bigger, depopulation plan.

[@thelocalmaladroit8873]

Their shared delusion cost them three lives. I totally agree with you on this one Dr Grande.

[@Taco_Raider]

As always, thanks, Doc!

[@vickielawson3114]

Folie à deux is the old (and very French) term for shared psychosis disorder.