Disinformation

The Michael Shermer Show # 373
Lee McIntyre is Research Fellow at the Center for Philosophy and History of Science at Boston University. Formerly Executive Director of the Institute for Quantitative Social Science at Harvard University, he has taught philosophy at Colgate University, Boston University, Simmons University, Tufts Experimental College, and Harvard Extension School. He is the author of Dark Ages, Post-Truth, The Scientific Attitude, and How to Talk to a Science Denier. His new book is On Disinformation: How to Fight for Truth and Protect Democracy.
Shermer and McIntyre discuss: default to truth theory • RFK Jr. • whether reason evolved for veridical perception or group identity? • How do we know what is true and what to believe? • What is disinformation? • worst case scenarios if Donald Trump wins in 2024 • trans issues, race issues, GMOs, nuclear power, climate doomsdayism • facts and values • science and morality • What went wrong during the COVID-19 pandemic? • lies and disinformation about masks and vaccines • social media companies responsibility for disinformation • what we should do personally and politically about disinformation.
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[@angharadllewellyn2192]

Where do we draw the line between free speech and blocking disinformation? And who is going to set the bar?

[@handyallen]

We haven't had a democracy since citizens united. the corporate oligarchy has brought the government including the Supreme Court. The eyes have already become accustomed to this darkness.

[@treefrog3349]

Why do so few seem to recognize this?

[@MsJoaniesgarden]

@@treefrog3349 Especially since this simple act gave license to buy our representatives where hidden money is flowing like water.

[@jasonmcphee]

Insights from an intellectual Gestapo. Amazing how many think they should be the arbiters of what is truth! Getting to truth requires the freedom to engage and the responsibility to discern. There are no shortcuts through delegation to authority.

[@climbingshitmountain]

Well put!

[@Unsensitive]

Aye. Who determines what is truth? For some things, it's easy, others not so much. Nutrition is a big one. Do vegan vs carnivore diet hold the truth? Each will claim they are correct. Doctors on both sides promoting what they feel is best. I think both are wrong, but in different ways, and one is more wrong than the other.. But again.. who decides the truth? The famous saying in medical school is: "Half of what we are going to teach you is wrong, and half of it is right." And sadly this seems about right.. the issue is no one is 100% accurate which half is right and which half wrong.

[@filipvidinovski7960]

What authoritarian sympathizers fail to understand, is that it's not about WHO determines the truth, but HOW. By parroting "my truths are just as good as yours" you negate the mere concept of truth, which is - surprise, surprise - one of the most important skills your favorite autocrat would like you to master. As RT channel proudly boasts: "we're like BBC, but on the other side" Democracy must be informed in order to work. Destroying the concept of truth or relativizing it to the point of annihilation, there's no democracy.

[@melanieshillinglaw3386]

Agree…. Very bias on their own views.

[@James-ip1tc]

One of Friedrich Nietzsche's well-known quotes advises, "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster." This sentiment seems particularly relevant when considering how some people perceive Donald Trump. In their zeal to oppose what they see as a significant threat, they may become willing to compromise the very freedoms and democratic principles they claim to defend. In doing so, they risk becoming the authoritarian figures they initially warned against.

[@filipvidinovski7960]

What exactly in this video compelled you to write this? Thank you for your insight.

[@brentbrooks7009]

Absolutely astonishing how these two are blithely oblivious to their own hypocrisy, motivated reasoning, and disinformation. The “I’m a science guy” comment takes the cake.

[@damonlay7562]

I think Michael Shermer is trying to default more towards being polite to his guest. But Mr. “I am a scientist. “is painfully unaware of his biases. Candidly I think he’s more influenced by his partisan loyalties than he realizes.

[@brentbrooks7009]

Yes, Michael Shermer is certainly being polite, maybe even brilliant if his purpose is really only to flesh out / expose the full nature of his guest's beliefs and then let the audience decide. Not exactly a skeptic's approach which is why it appears so weird to me. @@damonlay7562

[@marcchristopher4673]

Mr Shermer , I had , have great respect for you sir . When you were on Rogan and they all were on your shit , it really offended me . And Ive beem a big Rogan fan for 15yrs< . You stood your ground and I respected that. You stand your ground with Rogan and hold hands with this douche. Im not a troll and I get my opinion doesnt matter and youve already forgotten this reply. You see reality , usually , for what it is .. Im still in your camp and do go changing for me , but if your not seeing a "there", here , I dont know what your seeing , but your not alone .. Marc

[@Zagy21]

What’s said at 54:50 is completely insane

[@jacksonfrost9710]

it was shocking to me that shermer, one of my longtime sceptical heroes, actually allowed the notion of "prebunking" -- an authoritarian idea emblematic of the worst of ex-cathedra overextension -- to pass unremarked. it was, of course, a bit less shocking to see that the "disinformation expert" proceeded to cite the long-discredited possibility of russian facebook trolls stealing the election from clinton. i listened to michael on bret weinstein's podcast with a crazy conspiracy theorist last week, and i sympathised with his obvious frustration there. i am saddened to have noted little of the same scepticism in this interview. all the trump focus was fine on the naked merits -- he's absolutely a liar. but contextually more broadly, it's noxious to implicitly pretend he is the only source of "disinformation" in modern political life. as toxic as his dishonesty is, he's probably not even the singularly most important source of disinformation ! on the other hand...prebunking: are you kidding me ? not even a "yeah, well, our positions differ with respect to prebunking, but go ahead" ? in 2023, michael shermer, of all people, is resigned to informational authorities telling him ahead of time whom to ignore ? in 2023, micheal shermer, of all people, is resigned to a pop-sci sociologist telling him ahead of time whom to ignore ?

[@tkfavianti1962]

Why? Care to elaborate?

[@angharadllewellyn2192]

I like Lincoln's statement: “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.” I teach rational thinking in my science courses. If we teach rational thinking, most of the people won't be fooled.

[@homewall744]

Ah, so Lincoln said that did he? Or did he just repeat it from something already known? Or did he never say it at all?

[@Unsensitive]

Knowing where to find information used to be a significantly important skill. Now days it's filtering the good information from the bad. Some other skills that are often lacking in people: - The ability to critically analyze information. - identify bias in others, as well as yourself - listening to others you disagree with and actually considering their position.

[@noeditbookreviews]

I hope the other teachers pick up on the importance of what you're doing.

[@gavinsmith9564]

These techniques were used in Brexit by the Leave campaign. UK Government didn't even want to investigate Russian involvement in Brexit. Critical thinking needs to be compulsory in schools, it's self defence in the information age.

[@davidbutcher550]

I remember I took a nutrition course from a morbidly obese lady.Technical she was good maybe she could write a book too.

[@user-hn4it2tm1x]

I don't think most Americans realize how much of our governance is dependent upon custom rather than law. Much of what happened in the aftermath of 2020 has softened our democratic defenses for what is likely coming. We've tolerated what was previously thought intolerable, making increasingly more unthinkable actions plausible. Creeping normality.

[@treefrog3349]

Most humans, and particularly Americans, have been weaned on some form of magical "thinking" of both the religious and/or political variety. Christian Nationalism is the unholy, unhealthy "bastard" offspring of the two. Neither belief systems rely on genuine critical thinking. Both depend on unquestioned, unexamined belief and the childish adherence to the proclamations of "elders". In America we are slowly and insidiously becoming a nation of easily herded "sheeple" who are corralled in manageable ideological enclosures by a cadre of individuals who are not well-intentioned shepherds, but grasping and self-serving opportunists. Democracy is functionally dead, and the noble ideals upon which this nation was founded have been summarily shat upon by charlatans in our speciously binary political system.

[@AndreyBogoslowskyNewYorkCity]

I shared this video on my Facebook with the text I wrote with hashtags. Once my page on TikTok will go viral. I will be sharing your videos to hundreds of thousands of young people on TikTok I go viral every six months and TikTok destroys my page then I do it again it’s fun to start from nothing from zero I immigrated to times.

[@joeljentelson3810]

Wow! This has been the most confusing episode for me to follow because one moment I'm like, "YES 100%," and the next I'm like, "Oh no, that's ridiculous 🤦‍♂" Disinformation not covered by this podcast (that would have brought balance to the episode): 1. Claim: Russia hacked the 2016 election for Trump because he and his campaign were colluding with Russia. Truth: This claim has been disproven by the Durham Report. 2. Claim: Trump praised White Supremacists in Charlottesville. Truth: Check the transcript. Trump condemned the White Supremacists in the very next sentence. 3. Claim: The Hunter Biden Laptop had all the hallmarks of a Russian disinformation campaign according to a letter signed by 51 former intelligence officers/leaders and members of both parties. Truth: This is an actual example of Pre-Bunking. The FBI had the laptop about a year before warning Facebook (see Joe Rogan interview with Mark Zuckerberg) and Twitter. All the major networks have now confirmed that there's no evidence that the Hunter Biden Lapton was tampered with or disinformation. Now having read this, I'll bet you think that I'm a Trumpist. I hate to burst your bubble, but I'm not. I just want to set the record straight. The media has lied about Trump and exaggerated his context since he announced for President in 2015. I voted for Ted Cruz in the 2016 Primary (Bernie in 2020 - but that was because I wanted to keep my local sheriff). Currently, I'm backing Ron DeSantis because Trump put his foot in his mouth when he attacked the governor for Covid. I dismiss a lot of Trump's "lies" as "Puffery." Claiming that DeSantis did poorly on Covid was my last straw.

[@adstanrashaw9279]

well said, but they will come after DeSantis exactly like they came after Trump. I know people who believe that DeSantis has made it illegal to say "gay" in Florida and banned the history of slavery. Many think he is a white supremacist. Michael Shermer has done a lot for rational thinkers--a bit surprised he did not challenge this guy more on his thinking. The biggest threat to a Republic occurs when people do not trust its institutions. Perhaps the only this more grave is when the justice system is politicized against a political opponent, and Republicans have lots of evidence suggesting that this is happening. Both Trump and DeSantis are brave enough to fight back.

[@d4mdcykey]

Thanks for the full disclosure, but I don't think it helps you in the way you had hoped it would.

[@kennethobrien8386]

Beautifully said.

[@ctpaul1261]

Regarding your bullet points: 1. It's true that some - SOME - on the left claimed that Trump actually colluded with Russia. But many on the left didn't go that far and simply claimed that Russia interfered in the election. And we know that Russia did indeed interfere (and in way to benefit Trump). 2. So you seem to be admitting both... that Trump praised white supremacists AND condemned them. However, the condemnation doesn't negate the fact that Trump did indeed praise white supremacists. I suppose what we can glean from Trump's statements is that he praises white supremacists, but he didn't like how they acted out that day(?) 3. There's so much speculation and rumors connected with the Hunter Biden laptop that it's practically impossible to sort this mess out. We know that Hunter is a drug addict who was guilty of tax evasion and a gun law violation. And he had explicit photos on his laptop. However, he is not and never has been in government. Beyond that, it seems to be rabbit holes galore. It's true that the media has lied about Trump. Because the Fox News lies cost them $787.5 million in the Dominion lawsuit. And OAN and Newsmax have also gotten into hot water over their lies. So the most egregious media lies are not coming from where you're implying they're coming from (MSM). Your highly inconsistent voting record for candidates who are worlds apart tells me you're not very well informed yourself. Ted Cruz and Ron DeSantis and BERNIE??? Give me a break! When Trump claims the 2020 election was stolen from him, do you call that just "Puffery"? PS - Are you an antivaxxer?

[@rockygemjill]

29:56 It's been sad for me to realize that there is no way for the country to come together when we are operating under separate ideas of what is the truth.. we cannot have a real conversation when we are speaking with someone who is spewing lies that they believe to be true!!

[@whirledpeas3477]

Hey everybody, unfortunately Shermers favorite, Big Mike Obama couldn't be there 😢

[@ssg3219]

Once again, Shermer and McIntyre defend censorship when it is applied to people they don't like, and condemn censorship when it is applied to people they do like.

[@d4mdcykey]

You don't appear to pay attention very well.

[@tonycucca4499]

Son you're one of those?

[@oo-dd3lk]

Mr. Shermer is always interesting to listen to, no matter whom he is interviewing. Intelligent conversation, thank you.

[@wojciechwajda114]

How about dr. Shiva Ayyadurai and his oppressive system science? How about inviting him to show?

[@jeffersonianideal]

54:38 I would have liked to have heard more "full disclosure" from Lee McIntyre throughout the podcast. Instead, listeners could only depend on disclosure by omission.

[@aroemaliuged4776]

Why is the difference between information and the dis before it? Surely a political, cultural or moral stance…

[@handyallen]

Our political system has failed, we have no choices, a grifting megalomaniac, and old boomer who is bringing back the cold war and corrupted corporatism. We need more choices.

[@liamgross7217]

From the outside looking in I find hard to understand how the US is down to choosing between those two.

[@johntrinci9445]

We need a democracy and accountability

[@treefrog3349]

Well said. Why do so few seem to see the stark reality of the scam that is being perpetrated upon most of us?

[@stevenmyers6291]

Biden is not a boomer. He's from the "Silent Generation" that pre-dates the Boomers.

[@jplobo2326]

Could you use Time stamp?

[@lizgichora6472]

Thank you Michael Shermer for an indepth conversation, Truth and Reality. Scientific data enables us to have data and measurement which may help with clear analysis Ultimately Values Outweigh Facts, to Protect the public may require a lot of maneuvering. Democracy needs all of us, fighting Disinformation, thank you Prof Lee McIntyre.

[@homewall744]

Fighting disinformation or promoting it? This is always the real problem. He will hear 5 facts, claim 1 is false, and reject them all. This is just the other side of those who hear 5 claims, 1 is true, and then believe the others.

[@vgrof2315]

I think many people support and vote for Trump, holding their noses, because of general disgust with Biden, Hillary and the federal regulatory agencies. I would not have dinner with Trump, but I have the disgust that I refer to for his opponents. It's a dilemma.

[@jujudude4196]

Another six books on my reading list

[@AndreyBogoslowskyNewYorkCity]

Colgate university has purchased one of my paintings in the summer of 1997

[@jonahansen]

This guy is an authoritarian. He's as bad or worse as all the people he's accusing of disseminating disinformation. He's no scientist, and would have a hard time running an objective experiment which requires a serious dedication to wanting to find out the truth, not to support a point of view.

[@Seekthetruth3000]

He is a very Orwellian character.

[@michellepetros8491]

You don't understand what true skepticism is. You are not skeptical, you are biased.

[@melanieshillinglaw3386]

100% I’m Australian so looking at it from outside… biased for sure.

[@jonahansen]

What's with this guy? Democracy means the people decide; if people decide they want Trump to dump the civil servants, that would be democracy. Ramaswamy wants to do the same. Maybe it's a good idea. There's no doubt in my mind we have to rein in Government spending.

[@CamGreen]

My goodness. Hearing Shermer say we shouldn't worry about making a narcissistic bully the most powerful man in the world because "What is the worst that can happen?" is almost painful. I agree it will probably be OK because Trump is incompetent and nihilistic, and many of the people around him despise him but cling to him for their own purposes, but the "probably" here hides a disastrous downside. The Presidency of the United States is not something to be blaise about.

[@homewall744]

Why is breathing in other people viral particles nasty, but if you are infect, breathing in more of it isn't an issue?

[@JCResDoc94]

hey out thr, get disinformed kids! _JC

[@charliegordon-qh2ll]

2:41 This applies to both believers and non believers in any given situation. They are both using information the support their side and you said we need to look into the producers of that information. We need to look into the producers of the information you accept just as much as we need to look into the producers of the information we don't accept. 2:44 How did you come to your beliefs? Did you look into the producers of the information you rely on? 3:12 This also applies to you? Did you look into the producers of the information you rely on? 3:25 This all applies for acceptance too!!!! Did you look into the producers of the information you rely on?!?! If you failed, or refused, to look into the producers of the information you rely on then how can anyone competently accept you as an expert on, or have any actual comprehension of, disinformation? This isn't in support of Trump in any way. It is only about the principle of actually looking into disinformation and its effects. If he refused or failed to look into the producers of the information he relies on then he cannot possibly comprehend the subject.

[@joycegifford8826]

Blaming everything on Trump is DERANGED. So much for "Skeptic".

[@James-ip1tc]

It's simpler and people like simple explanations

[@MsDamosmum]

I’m sorry but, 10:29 mins in and he’s said conspiracy theory enough times for me to decide I’m not listening to the rest of the interview I won’t be reading his book.

[@Seekthetruth3000]

This guest is a very Orwellian character.

[@robyost6079]

A disinformation hurricane that you can just change predicted landfall with a sharpie.

[@jonahansen]

???

[@erikm5753]

More ad heavy than most videos I see on KZbin

[@rpeck2832]

Whats up with all these TDS trolls in the comments? Keep up the good work Michael. Plenty of us Scientific Skeptics got your back.

[@d4mdcykey]

It's simple. It's easy. It's fast. They don't have to think, just copy/paste. And it's also a very common refrain from literal bots.

[@williamvorkosigan5151]

Tax Deducted at Source trolls? TLA's. Three Letter Acronyms. The best way to make an in group and out group. I have no idea what TDS is.

[@noeditbookreviews]

​@@williamvorkosigan5151TDS stands for Toasted Duck Sauce

[@georgecostanzasbastardson1601]

This guest is either woefully ignorant or a professional propagandist. Sometimes it feels Michael Shermer is only skeptical of skeptics. The appeal to authority is strong with these two.

[@homewall744]

How about you explain your views and try to get people to comply voluntarily. If you must use force, we don't need a conspiracy theory to know you are the evil person. The ends do not justify the means, and your guess/preference/fear is on you, not forced on me.

[@paddydiddles4415]

It’s like they haven’t heard of Vivek Ramaswamy or they won’t daine to address the points he’s raised about dodgy elections

[@ledaswan5990]

Why would they discuss Vivek?

[@paddydiddles4415]

@@ledaswan5990 they discussed a few political candidates but oddly missed him out, - in the context of election integrity, which they were discussing; Vivek has specifically addressed this and his solution, strangely no mention. It’s as if they’re in their own cognitive bubble

[@jonahansen]

@@ledaswan5990 He wants to dump the civil servants too. So it's not some isolated wingding idea...

[@jonahansen]

I think it's deign, not daine.

[@DaleCoonrod]

Wow… two potentially good minds used for sheer evil.

[@Seekthetruth3000]

I can not believe how a psychologist like Dr. Shermer fails to use critical thinking.

[@SunThief80]

Isaac Newton had some wacky ideas, but we don't dismiss the smarter ideas he had, this conversation was a waste of time

[@DaveMorrisonMusic]

I see that Trump fans have found your podcast, Michael. Going forward, try to keep negative judgements against the former president for later in the show. Because for hard-Trumpers, hearing any sharp criticism of the man is as far as they will get into the discussion. They'll click out, accuse your guest of TDS in a nasty comment, and go off in search of something more affirmative.

[@adstanrashaw9279]

There is a thing called TDS. It is obvious for all rational people to see. Ever since he decided to run for president, he has been attacked from almost all sides. They made up a Russian collusion theory that dominated his presidency for 4 years. He is now the most investigated person to ever exist. They tried to impeach him for suggesting that the Ukrainian President investigate the Bidens, who obviously have been making millions of foreign entities for years. Now the "deep state" has arrested him on 4 occasions and he faces up to 600 years in prison, while Joe Biden and Hilary Clinton are free. There can be no doubt that if Trump had won the 2020 election, the dems would continued to do everything ( including inventing knew theories) to arrest or impeach him. They are the ones who are usurping democracy. In fact, they do not want democracy because it is too weak to actually achieve their objectives, like changing the entire energy system. The Dems are the ones who are attacking free speech and lying to the public about the border, for example.

[@d4mdcykey]

Yeah, VERY thin skin, like their leader. Interesting, that.

[@adstanrashaw9279]

@@degaussingatmosphericcharg575 Have I just been fact-checked by some guy on social media? Amazing.

[@bobcharles7933]

I know people are not thrilled about this particular guest being on and his clear, blatant, painfully obvious TDS, but I am glad for it. Thanks Michael for letting this goofball on and letting him talk so we all know why we should not buy his book.

[@umbomb]

There's no such thing as TDS.

[@Clem62]

Certainly, Google flagged Peterson's interview. That's too obvious and predictable.

[@mrpopo8298]

It's more likely that multiple accounts that don't like him reported it for violations of the rules (not saying he actually violated them). Peterson has a much bigger reach than Michael, therefore more crazies in the audience. I run a channel (not this account obviously) and with certain topics people just go ape. The most common thing that I get reported for is criticising immutable characteristics. Try having an hour long conversation about trans people without doing that at least once. You might be able to do it if you are working from a script, but not in an interview like that.

[@sf6199]

💩

[@vanessa1569]

I really don’t understand why all the cool kids dislike Kennedy. You know guys, sometimes, things really just are as bad as they seem.

[@BrandonSchmit]

Or they aren't.... Yes, sometimes conspiracy theories are correct. Most of the time, they aren't.

[@Sceince01]

Kennedy makes a good camper for my son when I tell him who not be like . He is one of the worst humans who is charming ( besides many other politicians ). 1: he did not apologize to the families of the 83 Samoans who passing he had a hand in 2: never apologized to Dr Offit after his lies had people harass his family. 3: he wrote a plethora of lies about Dr Fauci .

[@DannyVega-DanielHall4Freedom]

Make #Trump Speaker Impeach Biden & Harris Make Trump President Return #McCarthy Speaker #LockUpHRC #Bitcoin

[@DeconvertedMan]

He's scared of Trump... SIGH - not being very skeptic there - looking for patterns seems to be non skeptical to me. Jan 6 was peaceful - what the bleep happened to skeptisem in this episode? Nuance? Its so funny he starts with warning about people who will lie to you to get you to beleve in that lie - then proceeds to do that himself. I'm done. 6:06 politics seems to make people lose the mind they once had. Oh well. Hope your able to return to skeptical thinking soon guys. :/

[@michaelcastro7196]

This Belongs on msnbc typical democrat talking points

[@sircharlesnot]

31:46 the best thing for humanity would be to shut down the NYT

[@sircharlesnot]

50:35 "...scientific consensus..." should never be uttered by a serious person

[@d4mdcykey]

The funniest part is you are serious, seriously this ignorant and hoodwinked by grifters. LOL, wow.

[@sircharlesnot]

@d4mdcykey one person's grifter is another's truthsayer. The burden is on the geniuses who figured out what is misinformation etc

[@d4mdcykey]

@@sircharlesnot ~ Seek counseling, posthaste.

[@sircharlesnot]

@d4mdcykey why? Im talking to you, i dont need to pay to talk to a smug asshole

[@jonnieinbangkok]

Did you direct this guest to the nearest TDS treatment center!

[@matthewrichmond4139]

What's this Trump obsession? When he was President which policies for America went bad? There's not one.

[@bradleyadams9430]

What Trump policy was worth all the lives lost and ruined by the big lie? Not to mention all the every day idiot's that he has conned out of their money based on the lie. If you think the tax cuts for the corporate overlords was a good thing just look at how they have been price gouging us for record ptofits for the last several years.

[@tipple58]

Has this man thought about how "clever" people gaslight themselves? There seems, right from the outset, this thing called Trump Derangement Syndrome.

[@robinhood20253]

It isnt TDS. It is actual concern that normal people like yourselves are oblivious to reality. Can you give me an example of some legislation that trump pushed that benefitted the middle and lower classes.

[@johntrinci9445]

​@@dianneforit5409how long do you think you will be shielded from the chaos & harm the US caused in Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, Syria, Libya Ukraine and more generally in C & S America and Cuba? PS: that wasn't Trump

[@umbomb]

There's both the lack of benefit and the harm he's done (and is still doing.)@@robinhood20253

[@blindtrace7220]

Ask him if trans women are women. Or how he feels about the summer of love.

[@richardanderson-ze3sk]

Lee likes Koolaid

[@fullmatthew]

Democrat Koolaid is still better than supporting an orange-headed, known criminal and sexual predator for President

[@MyYouTube-xs4tu]

TDS

[@fliegeroh]

Oh boy this is so Marxist inspired I had to turn it off.

[@timothymulholland7905]

Trump would need the Armed Forces to take over.

[@sircharlesnot]

9:02 what a clown, he writes a book and then has the audacity to use the term "...both siding interviews..."; isn't that how truth is arrived at!?!?!?

[@benokaston1440]

Dimwitted zombie, cringe worthy, how sad.

[@blindtrace7220]

Pretty sure this guy wanted me to mask and vax my toddler.

[@adstanrashaw9279]

well, you know--the Science is settled on that.

[@semarugaijin9451]

He is a better person than you, more educated and more advanced in his knowledge. Of course you should at least be triple masking your infants for the good of "the SciEnCe"

[@jonnieinbangkok]

This entire interview was a joke and had me in stiches 😂 😂 😂 #CorruptBidenFamily #LetsGoBrandon #MAGA2024

[@XD226]

16:44

[@RealLifeProduct]

TDS