Skyrim’s Woodworking is Shoddy and Confusing

#skyrim #woodworking #criticism #commentary #review #breadboardend
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[@edenK47]

Hey y’all, I wanted to make a couple clarifications/responses to some of the more common comments in seeing! These are just my thought processes - feel free to disagree. BALGRUUF’S CHAIR A lot of people are pointing out that the arm could be connected via a dowel, which is true, and I said right at the end of the section (though I said “rail” when I meant “stile”). Austin and I had discussed this further but it didn’t make the edit. I don’t see evidence of a dowel on either side of the joint so it would have to be entirely internal, which isn’t very common in this kind of furniture, and seems like a pretty weak joint for such a prestigious seat, compared to lapping or mortising the arm into the stile. But like I said in the video - it’s possible ! A few people have also pointed out that what looks like nails on the back splat could be holding the upholstery in place. I don’t have much experience with upholstery but I’ve never seen a historical (or modern for that matter) example like it. I would assume that having the nail head in contact with the fabric would be important as to more evenly distribute pressure and increase friction to keep it taught, and that simply having the shank of the nail pass through the fabric would not provide much actual holding power and could lead to tearing. But like I said - not really my area. If any upholsterers can confirm or deny I’d love to hear !! SOLITUDE BEAM Firstly, that’s definitely a post and not a beam - my bad. Secondly, some folks are positing that the brackets are connected to eachother and joined the top of the post via a bridle joint. As far as I can tell, the grain is running parallel to the post, so the entirety of the bridle would be in the short grain and therefore very weak, which doesn’t make a lot of sense to me personally. That being said, one comment arguing that they’re sandwiched together in opposing grain direction like plywood and pointing to the use of “hanging knees” by shipwrights is very interesting and compelling to me !! EXECUTIONER’S BLOCK It’s not stone ! Running an axe into stone would immediately dull - if not chip - it. Also there’s a lot of historical precedent for end grain executioners blocks, but they’re much less wide than the one shown here. Executioners axes would have been muuuuuch thinner than most woodworking axes so splitting would not have been a issue. RANDOM NAILS A TON of comments are saying that the random nails are evidence of reused lumber. I don’t agree for a couple of reason. Firstly, nails are valuable, especially in a time when they’re hand wrought by a smith - why leave them in the board instead of reusing them as well as the lumber ? Secondly, working with lumber that has nails all through it is not only dangerous, but would make a lot of planing and sawing operations impossible. Thirdly, having nails sticking out of the walls in your house is a great way to get poked by a nail. MEEKO’S CABIN/THATCHED ROOFS The cabin’s roof being an undergird for thatching makes perfect sense ! Thank y’all for pointing that out. I’d be curious the look at the interior roofs of other thatched buildings in the game to see if they match up with Meeko’s. All in all I’m really happy to see the general response to the video and the discussion popping up around it ! And thank you to Austin for having me on.

[@krillianlastrange4886]

Man, I was about to make jokes about the roof obviously being an undergrid. But my house built in 1954 had one so I was more used to the idea. Mine was horizonal instead of vertical though.

[@youruncleted]

why are you wearing make-up and painting your nails? you're a man

[@clarajaymorse3487]

Question: what do you think about the theory of the excess nails in a lot of the designs being a sign of wealth because Nord construction is based on Norse designs where lots of iron and nails was a show of wealth?

[@jessdrewthis]

Thanks for teaching this layman something new, I never thought about how much history there is in woodworking :)

[@LaydiNite]

I was about to suggest the idea of a thatching material going on top of the roof. It really does look like something intended as a brace or framework rather than a completed roof.

[@hb-robo]

This bureaucratic realism approach to games is the funniest thing I’ve seen on youtube in a while

[@Matty002]

its also SOOO satisfying, with the occasional unintentional asmr

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

It has nothing to do with Bureaucracy and everything to do with gravity. For instance; the floors and ceilings in Solitude could not hold their own weight, and as soon as the supports used to build them were removed, the entire floor/ceiling would fall, killing anyone who happened to be underneath. The floors in Whiterun would be super spongy and start to fail as soon as heavy furniture was placed on them. Joists are stood vertically, not flat. Here.. Do this experiment to prove it to yourself (or just go look at how any deck is built). If you lay a board across a span with the board laying flat, it will easily bend and bounce. Now stand the board up on it's edge and the board will only bend a small amount, if at all. The wider the board, the taller it is when stood on edge, and thus the more weight it can hold up.. There are called floor (or ceiling) *joists.* The flat boards laid across them are just the surface you walk on, but they do very little so support your weight and the weight of furnishings if there are no joists. . If you just look at the underneath of any wooden deck, you can clearly see how a real floor is constructed. Now this may not matter to you in your mind, but I have 30 years experience with building and design, and it's enough to know that even people who have no clue about how these things are built, still respond positively to them when they see them. And certainly no one would ever willingly pay for a floor that bounces and cracks like the floors in Whiterun, and they would sue the contractor for the deaths and injuries incurred from ceilings crushing people in Solitude. There's a whole lot more to be picky about, but I can look past those in a video game. But blatant misrepresentation of gravity I cannot overlook, even with my imagination.

[@elvingearmasterirma7241]

​@@aylbdrmadison1051its still hilarious and it shows off people's skills!

[@CrippledCrusader]

It’s honestly my favorite content rn

[@mekabare]

biggest fear of every artist but absolutely funny as hell, love it

[@SIK_Mephisto]

I love the idea of 2 people breaking into a random man's cabin in the woods to rate the house's craftsmanship while he sleeps in the bed they're inspecting.

[@graymonk5972]

hon i hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but he’s hella dead

[@Bone8380]

His ass is NOT sleeping

[@MrDMIDOV]

It’s ok he’s never waking up

[@MrAranton]

Well, the guy is actually dead - which might be why he never got around to fixing the roof.

[@darkshadowsx5949]

@@MrAranton how did he get around to fixing the roof when he's dead and the roof is still awful?

[@ewak.1155]

From a 3D modelers perspective, this is the most fascinating and hillarious thing I assure you, the artists were absolutely just randomly placing nails so it sells the look without any thought where they're going

[@jonathanlochridge9462]

Although, after watching this. There is a part of me that thinks it could kind of be enjoyable to make wooden building models and carefully try to make nails and joinery make sense for it. Or how maybe a carpenter simulator might be a fun game maybe.

[@dommyboysmith]

@@jonathanlochridge9462 I agree, but if you've spent your whole life on a computer there's a good chance you have no idea how medieval or even modern buildings are actually built. 😁

[@IamDUFF]

@@dommyboysmith my brother, do you know how popular farm simulator is? All kinds of people play all kinds of things and it's a beautiful world, my brother.

[@mattjk5299]

​@@dommyboysmithI mean expecting a 3d artist and texture artist to be a shipwright, architect, gunsmith, civil engineer and carpenter is a bit unrealistic.

[@Greystorm1619]

I can confirm as someone who studied 3d modeling in college, artists just make shit up 😅

[@NickSuda]

My dad is a finish carpenter. I grew up watching him like, scrutinizing the inside of any McDonald's we were sitting in or whatever and just going "man what the hell were they doing here??" This is some more of that energy for me lol thanks 🙏

[@seanstuchbery]

Was he born in Finland or just move there?

[@cobaltchromee7533]

​@@seanstuchberyI don't know if you're joking or not, but a finish carpenter is someone that adds the finishing touches to houses after they're fully built.

[@Fetidaf]

@@cobaltchromee7533but they have to do all that in Finland, right? Otherwise they’d be a Swedish carpenter or American carpenter or whatever…

[@judgedrekk2981]

come on, it was Mc D's, not the Taj mahal LOLZ eh any criticism of Mc D's is good criticism though, gods they suck! LMAO! they never got my burger right....Burger King gets my burger right which is why they're the king....i miss the ads with the guy in the king costume so funny!

[@VHSo_o]

@@judgedrekk2981ok dad lets get you to bed

[@TheVikingDoctor]

This is the way that Skyrim was meant to be played.

[@NelidaUtuwatu]

I lost my copy of skyrim in the divorce ☹️

[@Redhollow]

@@NelidaUtuwatu that divorce was rigged.

[@NelidaUtuwatu]

@@Redhollow he thought it was quite a pog

[@BlackDragon41sbm]

SPAWNING CHEESE WHEEL

[@Raidraptor_-_Ultimate_Falcon]

Rigged comment.

[@nateotts7887]

As a structural engineer, I really appreciate pointing our the poor integrity of most structures in Skyrim. I think the building code council and building officials need to be investigated. The quality of general contractors and tradesmen in the region must be abysmal.

[@johnsnow5125]

let's not forget that they're Nords. They're doing ... the best they can

[@Kryptnyt]

When engineers start the day with a cup of mead instead of coffee this is what you get

[@DKarkarov]

They are nords, they are too drunk to build anything up to any kind of code. It is a miracle the buildings stand at all.

[@saffral]

Just wait until you see their food safety procedures, or rather the complete lack thereof.

[@liraz2298]

austin might have a new job soon, skyrim building inspector

[@doughboywhine]

Two points I would like to mention: 1. It seems to me the little bumps on the side of Ulfric's table are clamps for the legs to hold it and for easy disassembly- looks to me like if you take out the underlying tenons, you can then unclamp the legs and move the whole tabletop separately. 2. You should give some slack to Meeko's cabin. While it's not very well made or even makes much sense, Meeko is a dog so the fact that he built a whole cabin by himself (which is very abnormal for dogs to do) is pretty impressive by itself

[@CheeseJuggernaut]

As a traditional shipwright/craftsman, I think these triangle pieces at 3:00 are meant to represent "hanging knees". 'Knees' being the shape of the piece and how it attaches, and 'hanging' indicating that it braces underneath the load. The nails often really do go all the way through the wood as shown, using really long bolts/rivets/nails. As for how it looks like 3 pieces attached, this could be done for grain stability, like how plywood works. Knees are very commonly made from more than 1 piece of wood l due to the grain being fragile on at least one of the longer arms. Google "hanging knees boat" to find something similar, I don't think it let's me post links to images here.

[@aqthefanattic7933]

Last week I visited two of the old stave churches of Norway. Their construction utilised knees heavily as well which was cool, the frame of the roof almost looks like an upside down boat hull. At least in the churches, all of the knees are a single piece. According to the museum the knees are made from the very bottom of the trunk where it starts to curve out into roots as that is not only somewhat of a right shape but also the most durable part of the tree. (I'm guessing you know this already, just putting it out there for anyone else who might read this)

[@CheeseJuggernaut]

@@aqthefanattic7933 Very interesting! I've found that older wooden ships tend to source these single pieces that naturally have the grain curve, but in modern day it is rare due to the difficulty sourcing them and the strength of modern joining methods/materials. I love the fact that Norway uses similar construction to boat hulls in their church roofs, perhaps inspired by the way they built their boats at the time!

[@bluwaterdragoon]

This is really fascinating! Thank you for taking the time to put this comment together! I did Google what you said and there were some really neat diagrams and pictures.

[@CheeseJuggernaut]

@@bluwaterdragoon I'm glad you enjoyed it! Traditional woodwork can be a very interesting subject with roots in different cultures around thr world effecting how their construction use to look and function!

[@silphonym]

The internet has made me so suspicious of the phrase 'google X' that I was bracing for some weird fetish shit searching it up 😭

[@tgod75]

This is the most unnecessary Skyrim analysis I’ve ever seen and I love it

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

For us professionals, this has been necessary for more than a decade. I'm so glad someone is actually trying. Not doing the best job really, but it's on the right track. He just needs to consult with better trained builders. A furniture maker doesn't automatically know how to build houses, and vice versa. A carpenter doesn't automatically know how to build furniture and cabinets.

[@IceGoddessRukia]

IDK about you but I learned a lot. So not useless!

[@randomname285]

I dunno what about bdg reading all the books in skyrim

[@shira_yone]

Very much necessary

[@shetland_pone]

​@@randomname285and the guy who figures out the unemployment rates in Skyrim's cities

[@BoomBoxtheToaster]

Fun fact: Nords use superfluous nails to indicate wealth, as stated in the official art book from 2011~ I love content like this, keep it up!

[@theworldoflivvy3150]

Seems a bit odd that the random shack in the woods would have the most superfluous nails then?

[@Firstnamewastaken]

@@theworldoflivvy3150 Who knows? Maybe that (dead) hunter wanted to flaunt his wealth to nobody in particular - Perhaps he was wondering if someone could hear his weird flex when he was (dead) alone in the woods.

[@theworldoflivvy3150]

@@Firstnamewastaken Maybe Meeko liked nails, haha!

[@lesigh3410]

I feel kinda stupid for even trying to look this up to see if it was true (hint: it wasn't, at least as far as google could tell me)

[@theworldoflivvy3150]

@@lesigh3410 Is the official art book available fully online? I’d like a link if you have it. Can’t get enough Skrimm. I’d actually believe the nail thing to a certain extent. In general, you do see more nails in the bigger cities, though maybe that’s just because the nails are easier to see against the darker wood.

[@Jadecool312]

As a 3D environment and prop artist, this was incredibly helpful

[@daniel5730]

Roofs in isolated cabins in Skyrim don't make any sense at all, especially when you have real historical Norse roofs made of reeds and dirt and whatnot. It feels like Bethesda just forgot to finish those roofs and pretended not to notice it afterwards.

[@Scribblersys]

Perhaps they couldn't afford the poly count for properly thatch-roofed cottages (or the realism cost of them not catching on fire and burning when a dragon strikes)

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

They did not forget to finish these kinds of homes. They made a design choice to communicate "rough" living to as wide an audience as possible. Which isn't a particularly exciting or immersive choice, but you bet everyone sees those cabins and huts and instantly sees it as dingy.

[@daniel5730]

@@YourWaywardDestiny I mean I feel like they were going for it, but it feels more like one of those cases when people assume that before the industrial revolution humanity was dumber or something. If anything they could put a little more effort into it and put a few holes in the walls/roof to show that the cabin in question is weathered and shoddy, but the whole roof being made this way is just so immersion-breaking I can't believe they actually released it this way. Maybe it looks better in warm forest as in the video, but there's almost identical cabin in the snowy mountain area (a reclusive hunter lives there with his son so it's not abandoned) and snow just falls through this roof. It is very upsetting because Skyrim's visual design is generally great.

[@Brave_SJ]

You know, now that you mention it the Skyrim shacks do look like they were supposed to have thatch but no one put it in before launch, which I would believe from Bethesda.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Really feels like a thatch roof without any thatch

[@dusksentry5836]

the "shitty" roof in meeko's house could be the bare skeleton left over after all the thatching like...rotted, or got stolen or something

[@FlamingZelda3]

right, I expect it had thatching at one point

[@ubermenschen01]

Thatched roofs would have horizontal members, rather than vertical. Otherwise, when you tied on the thatch, it would just slide down the roof when it got wet/heavy with snow.

[@Toksyuryel]

@@ubermenschen01 Perhaps that's why it no longer has thatch

[@TheElJeffi]

It was also quite common to re-thatch roofs as thatching has a relatively short life span

[@henryhobbs8890]

​@@Toksyuryelsuperhuman IQ

[@williamjoseph1300]

I am not a carpenter or structural engineer and this has bothered me since I was a teenager. I'm glad someone finally pointed it out and shared it in video format.

[@FirstnameLastname-mo6pu]

As a hobbyist wood worker, this is the kind of content my life needed

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

Take the furniture building advice, but not the home building advice. I was well trained decades ago by separate experts in both fields. Being trained in just one or the other does not mean both skills are understood. Not at all.

[@AhavatYisraeI]

Just a small fun fact, when you mentioned the texture on the concrete being there to make sure people don't slip, it's usually actually there to help sight-impaired people be able to tell where they are, such as at a crosswalk. :)

[@mikechurvis9995]

It spells "crosswalk" in braille :3 /j

[@russianvalkyrie2358]

I was looking for this comment!

[@harrytgough9101]

​@@mikechurvis9995it actually sort of does. Not in the braille alphabet, but it does represent the concept of a crosswalk, which is exactly what writing is meant to do. I don't know why this seems so profound to me.

[@conan4real]

if it's in the middle of a sidewalk its more likely to be anti homeless architecture, its only used for blind ppl on crosswalks

[@MerkhVision]

Hey, what’s the cute monkey eating bread in your profile pic from?

[@korppi6899]

This is the kind of stuff that makes me grateful for the existence of the internet, since without it I wouldn't have seen this. Exactly the kind of content I love to see

[@orinblank2056]

9:07 Those little nubs on the sidewalk are actually for visually impaired people. Same as the metal parts on the corner of the sidewalk at crosswalks. They allow people who use a cane to navigate to know where they're going. In Japan they are particularly noticeable, and all of the train stations have them moving in lines right up to where they get onto the train. I also used to think they were more for grip and it confused me, but it makes a lot more sense when you think about it as a way for blind people to navigate

[@kaykymoura1559]

Please try to make a video analyzing the quality of life offered by the holds of Skyrim to their guards during the exercise of their duties, being the shield that protects the realm against the evil. And the lower classes.

[@dartoney]

Solitude seems to be the best at that

[@clarajaymorse3487]

Man that sounds so funny

[@shitlordfm3345]

would LOVE to see this

[@4Pssf2w]

God, this suggestion is fucking RIPE for exploitation. Such a any_austin idea.

[@TheHussar]

This is one of the best channels that can pull THIS off and still be fun.

[@Little-Buster]

These guys will go above and beyond the call of duty. Walking on top of a dead dude just to examine some wood up close.

[@kneesturnedvelvet3725]

Aside from the grain texture on the top surface, the executioner's block having grain running up and down makes perfect sense-- ax blocks (for wooden spoon/bowl/etc carving) tend to be made of large logs, with end grain facing upward. I think the theory is, it allows the ax to enter and exit the grain without damage.

[@kneesturnedvelvet3725]

End-grain chopping blocks and cutting boards are the same logic! The blade can slide between the grain, without having to chop through anything. So it maintains your sharp edge for longer.

[@devinpalazzo1906]

My favorite part of this video is definitely them standing over Meeko’s sleeping body in the cabin admiring the woodwork of his headboard like some damn sleep paralysis demons. 😂

[@ravioli3257]

Hate to break it to you bud but that man is not sleeping :(

[@chandlerrichards543]

Also Meeko is a dog- the man is the old owner of the cabin, he left it to his dog when he died.

[@incognitoman3656]

@@chandlerrichards543these guys haven’t even gotten the most tragic location

[@graymonk5972]

they’re more like the grim reaper if ya know what i’m sayin

[@HickoryDickory86]

@incognitoman3656 The riverside shack in Eastmarch? Pretty gnarly.

[@Braaibroodjie8]

Could this be a series please?

[@any_austin]

Sure

[@htspencer9084]

​@@any_austincool, thanks.

[@Guruc13]

Please bring back Eden, they are very cool! 🎉❤

[@hb-robo]

@@fvhaudsilhvdfsNeed a hydrodynamics guy to come on and review the aqueducts

[@peterlopinto]

The dwemer metalwork could use some analysis

[@OwlMoovement]

For any woodworkers interested in the square nails (called cut nails), Stumpy Nubs has a great video on why they were square and how, once they were perfected, they are supposedly superior to modern wire (round) nails that we are used to.

[@elliejohnson2786]

I know this isn't what the video is about, but for those interested in why some of the nails are just in completely weird spots, it's likely because of how they textured these. They made a square texture that has details on it (a "trim sheet" texture), then applied it to the surfaces (UV unwrapped) in ways to get a desired look. That means that nails will show up in large, continuous sections of wood because there are simply nails on that texture and there isn't much they can do about that. Some of the oddly placed pegs that don't line up with geometry are likely just a rushed schedule or a lack of consideration for very very specific realism. Most people don't notice this stuff so it's generally acceptable and seen in virtually every game, especially from the time.

[@Tolwrath]

I think you're forgetting that Balgruuf's chair is meant for someone to sit on. The hand rests have awful pointy bits, as does the headrest. The short legs result in the seat being lower to the ground, which means his posture, if he intends to have his feet flat on the ground, requires him to either have his knees raised up above his hips, or to slouch. Neither option really gives him a powerful or respectful pose.

[@ravenger5672]

Definitely one of the most uncomfortable looking chairs I’ve seen.

[@sweetssandbox3526]

My counterpoint might be that many historical thrones are only for sitting on for brief periods of time and a lot of them look uncomfortable as hell. But if it’s basically his longhouse I think he’d be sitting at the head of a big table kinda like how Riften has their tables set up? That’s speculation from me I don’t know for sure

[@iowasucks9494]

If you look at him sit in game he does exactly this. He just leans over one armrest and has a super lazy pose. Guess it makes sense

[@SnailHatan]

That doesn’t matter. It’s about realism, not comfort.

[@sweetssandbox3526]

@@SnailHatan Loved your work on “Vertigo”

[@velvetdraws3452]

i love looking at these games with realism, not "there can't be magic its unrealistic" but like, mundane stuff

[@kirktown2046]

1:10 - Those are upholstery nails/tacs, they're holding animal leather taut over the cushioning material for the back of the chair. Come on, you don't have to make furniture to know that.

[@Dynamic1312]

Please make this a full series, I loved it. Maybe even find a stone mason to weigh in on the masonry work of games.

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

I was a professional woodworker for 3 decades and Skyrim has a lot of things that simply would fail. Mostly it's floors and ceilings. The floors in Whiterun would be incredibly spongy, more like a trampoline than a floor, and the stone floors in solitude could not even hold their own weight, and would fall as soon as the wood supports used to build them on top of were removed, likely killing anyone underneath. And that sort of thing exists pretty much everywhere.

[@dougneon9550]

Jeez maybe they should a looked at some real life examples?

[@HickoryDickory86]

Even the Solitude arch itself defies physics. It's not properly an arch, and stone just doesn't have that kinda tensile strength.

[@Shannon4710]

@@dougneon9550they probably did. It is likely more that they didn’t want to spend too much time trying to make it look accurate to the tiny minority of people that both look close enough to notice these things and understand enough to realize why it isn’t realistic.

[@SineN0mine3]

The buildings in solitude are mostly being held together with magic, hence the importance of the magic school in town.

[@jodofe4879]

@@dougneon9550 I am pretty sure they did. But game devs aren't professional woodworkers or masons or anything like that so I highly doubt they know what to look for when looking at real life examples. And over 99% of players probably don't have the specialist knowledge to identify those things either, so they will never notice that it is wrong anyways. From a game dev's point of view, as long as it looks believable to the average player, it is good enough.

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

On the matter of Meeko's hut... The terrible roof and seemingly random nails/pegs? The roof at some point might have been thatched. Thatching is literally tied onto a roof. Having uniform places to secure it would make sense, but would look really dumb sans the thatching. Alternatively, it could have had wooden slat shingles at some point, which are nailed in on the horizontal, obviously. Seeing the remains of what was a better house in better years is very sad, knowing the fate of Meeko's former owner.

[@hahanosrryggl223]

I dunno, his disease definitely would've made upkeep in his shack a low priority, and eventually impossible, but seems a bit severe it'd lose all of its shingles as he died. Scratch that, I love the idea of an apology video, with these two bringing Meeko on and apologizing for mocking the state of a dying man's home, so I'm going with what you said

[@bluegum6438]

The guy's bedridden for a week and his house disintegrates as if it's been out in the elements for two hundred years, I've seen archaelogical digs in better condition. Poor guy must've spent every waking hour rethatching his POS hut, like he was the victim of a fairy curse.

[@YourWaywardDestiny]

@@bluegum6438 You know, I imagine most Elder Scrolls NPCs actually are under some gods awful curse. Maybe not so much about things breaking down constantly, but the amount of absolutely stupid stuff some of these guys just HAVE to rely on you for, I can't help but think it's a curse to be an idiot. He probably was doing a real shit job all on his lonesome out there, cursed with NPC helplessness. The thatch just fell right off when he got sick because of course it did.

[@theworldoflivvy3150]

@@bluegum6438 I mean, it IS Skyrim. Bandits steal potatoes. I could see them stealing thatch. Or maybe hagravens to make nests? Or hell maybe some fire mage came along and was like "hey that looks like something I could stuff a target with"

[@Toksyuryel]

@@theworldoflivvy3150 I would totally buy bandits stealing thatch to feed their horses

[@warbearin]

9:17 the comment about a potetntial tradition for getting up on the bench and doing a little dance was funny lol

[@ztoogemcducc6360]

As a 3D artist the reason there's random nails in the boards is likely because they use a trim sheet to texture objects in games like this. Basically models have things called UV's which are like flattened versions of the models and that's where the textures are applied. By having a trim sheet of commonly used textures you can place the UVs on the sheet and have multiple objects reuse the same textures. One of the parts of the trim sheets they use happens to have nails on it.

[@jakattacked]

as a carpenter of 7 years and a fan of skyrim for the past 12 years, this is by far my favourite video

[@ccl1195]

Awesome.

[@JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles]

this is 100% the developers who worked on these models' worst nightmare. A lot of things in game development rely on the "Noone will look that closely at this" rule, if they see this video they will never stop thinking about it when they texture anything in the future. You may have ruined people's careers with this video. Great job on a wonderful video! Keep it up!

[@v44n7]

i know its a joke but "You may have ruined people's careers with this video" no way. if 12 years later people are still talking about your videogame with so much love. damn that's something else

[@judgedrekk2981]

IDK, the seams could sorta be ignored but the rando nails even I noticed that a few times why is that brace there? it's not even doing anything [the metal strip on that stall] the triangle brace is legit but what are all those nails doing?? naww as hilarious as this is the criticism is legit! honestly they don't actually need to put nails on everything or decorative knobs all over stuff especially seats WTF? the carving on the bread board cap was a cool touch though, that bit i really like and all the carving we see as decoration in the game looks nice be it stone, metal or wood but like the silly stuff no matter what jut annoys me, the headman block...whatever no big deal IMO lol i bet despite the roof that shack woulda got a higher score if it didn;t have nails everywhere?? and the dead body was an interesting decoration choice, it really livened up the shack...made it look alive ya know?? lolz think we should skin the Nord and put him down as a rug?? gods i am so going to hell....

[@cloaktomatch]

Haha nooo devs love this kind of stuff!!

[@MajkaSrajka]

@@v44n7 He didn't ruined Skyrim devs carriers. He ruined some modern devs as when they tell their boss "no one will ever look at it" the boss will point at the half a million views video and tell them to shut up and keep working on horse testicle shrinking lol

[@smnoy23]

Now that I think about it, I have, in my numerous hours in Skyrim, looked at the odd furniture or wood structure and gone "well that doesn't seem like the right way to do it" now and then.

[@JenIsHungry]

Men and wood. I'm sure there is a joke there.

[@davidwave4]

Eden might be my new favorite channel guest. They're obviously very knowledgeable, and their vibes are different from Austin's but also complimentary.

[@IntermissionForBunny]

I have a lore-friendly explanation for the random pointless nails in boards. As a pre-industrial society Skyrim citizens need to re-use good solid lumber as often as possible (many famous Roman buildings had their stones pulled and re-used for similar reasons). The Nords originally sailed to Tamriel from across the sea so those boards with random nails could have been repurposed from very old ships. There's a barn still standing in England supposedly built from the timbers of the Mayflower.

[@Funkin_Disher]

Consistent nails are also a pain in the ass to make in large quantities, so joints that dont use then would be more common too. Reusing any nails also!

[@BeetleBuns]

there's an explanation for it in the lore already, if the official art book is canon. They use the "random" nails to indicate wealth, being rich enough to waste nails as decoration

[@MadMadCommando]

Metal is expensive though. They wouldn’t just leave nails in a board when they could be re used. The wealth thing makes sense with the showy nails but not for the nails in a random shack

[@SylviaRustyFae]

This wud make sense, and wud also explain why the nails nvr go thru the wood; they wud probs get hammered blunt on the other ends, rather than have a bunch of sharp nails stickin out

[@SylviaRustyFae]

​@@BeetleBuns Yeah but thats one that just doesnt feel like it wud happen in the real world, whereas this explanation sounds plausible to the real world

[@austinsmothers9868]

Sounds like the major cities in the holds of Skyrim need to be audited by the Department of Infrastructure the same way the labor bureau did and then have a video series made about it

[@EmissaryofWind]

Lots of roads and signage that aren't up to code

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

Obviously the royal deputy of housecraft

[@Heartwing13]

I’d love an osha series too

[@JudicialBrat]

Before all of that, Skyrim's laws should also be renewed and revised amidst the catastrophe that is the civil war and dragons.

[@commandrogyne]

Eden seems so cool and knowledgable, i really enjoyed their commentary! Also i love the thought of two peoole just standing over a sleeping man, discussing his carpentry techniques and dogshit roof

[@axelory7676]

I don't know if you've ever played Skyrim, but that man ain't sleepin'.

[@commandrogyne]

@@axelory7676 oh no has he expired? That does make the thought of two people discussing his dogshit house over his dead body MUCH funnier tbh

[@axelory7676]

@@commandrogyne Yeeeah, my man's Hella Dead.

[@seamusrichardson6011]

for ulfric's table, I imagine the wood block things on the edge are almost spot markers, like, when planning out a larger gathering in peacetimes, it is easier to figure out how many can seat at that table by simply counting two or three to a marker.

[@nicco7955]

I assumed that the random nails in the wood are there because they reused boards from something else and just bent the tip of the nail instead of taking it out. It would make sense that you wouldn’t want to go get a cut wood boards if you had no machinery and had to do it yourself

[@mithril_leaf]

Wood reuse would also explain some of the more extreme weathering seen on certain interior objects as well.

[@EmissaryofWind]

There are several sawmills in Skyrim that have the necessary machinery, but if you have free wood lying around it makes sense to reuse it as long as it's not rotting or anything

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

@@EmissaryofWind I've recently acquired around planks from the mills. They must've used magic with that quick delivery.

[@gwamhurt]

The thing is those nails had to be forged individually, so they absolutely would take them out and reuse them as was done historically before wire nail manufacturing became a thing.

[@nicco7955]

@@gwamhurt that’s a great point, I think you’re right

[@JakAttack]

Finally after 11 years some unique skyrim content.

[@jackhazardous4008]

I think the purpose of the nails on Ulfric's dining table may be to decide how much space the men get. Men of higher status get more nails to spread their food on, while people of lower status were only allowed 5 nails of plate space. I'm studying archaeology and we often use the tactic of field conclusions

[@scpWyatt]

This video helped me on a spiritual level that I cannot begin to explain

[@cedriclothritz7281]

12:35 I like the idea of two furniture inspectors loudly discussing the quality of a bed while someone is sleeping in it!

[@tassey]

He is not sleeping.

[@orangesilver8]

He's not sleeping...

[@akai4942]

he's dead 💀

[@reemm6270]

This thread is so funny

[@Hellsliver]

yes, 'sleeping'

[@b0tster]

as a 3d modeler who has made modular level geometry assets for video games like this, this video fascinated me to no end.

[@FlamingZelda3]

right, there are actually a bunch of insights in a video like this which are arguably quite valuable to people on the design end of videogames.

[@ewak.1155]

I commented the very same thing just now lmao

[@deetvleet]

as a modeller this video scared me thinking about how my work could be scrutinised lmao

[@sannyassi73]

I was into remodeling/construction for about 20 Years and during all that time I also developed games. I've noticed this about Wood in Skyrim since Day 1 and it's always kind of funny to know how it should look thanks to construction experience, but also know why it's textured the way it is thanks to game dev- I can never see a game normally again, it's kinda like I have a permanent side quest in every game now to try to figure out how and why the developers did what they did. I didn't notice the Historical stuff like you guys point out, but rather just things not lining up or making sense soemtimes and textures in the wrong places

[@danielled8665]

Dunno if anyone mentioned, but Skyrim is based on Norse tradition, and they often filled things with random nails because Iron was a status symbol, plus in wartime you could pull out your extra nails and make a sword out of the iron. 😊

[@psychodiva336]

Oh that’s very very interesting!!

[@S59964]

Not Norse tradition. *Nord* tradition. I've never heard of anyone in real life wasting iron in such a way.

[@spazzypotato8325]

This comment is terrible incorrectly. Iron was very expensive, and they used to take the nails from the home when they moved. Get educated before saying dumb things.

[@rustyhowe3907]

I have a beachfront property to sell you in Iowa.

[@ILBOI_X]

I've actually never thought about wood

[@rtleppert3419]

Thats crazy because i think about wood all the time

[@armando_az1]

😂

[@Pure_L18]

I have some speculation about the hut's roof. The horizontal beams come in sets, one on the outside and one on the inside, and are likely interfacing with each other with the nails. They would likely be to add support to the vertical beams. The vertical beams would only really be connected at the top and bottom. Also, the roof seems like it would be intended to have a layer of thatch on top for insulation and waterproofing, meaning that the gaps would not be bad as the wood is just for structure and not intended to be the actual roof.

[@1stCallipostle]

I figured about the same that it had a covering layer before that wasn't self supporting Thatching would make sense and probably be most accurate, or I suppose you could go Yurt mode and use fabrics or furs

[@Guruc13]

We caught the hut in-between thatch jobs. Maybe the owner ran out of money, or maybe they just haven't gotten around to it

[@DovahFett]

@@Guruc13 To be honest, I don't think Meeko's owner is thatching that roof anytime soon. Who knows how long he's been dead. Perhaps it did have thatching at one point but got worn away after months of being left unmaintained in Skyrim's harsh climate.

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

You're correct about the thatch. The rest makes no sense to a real builder though. Unless you just didn't explain it well. People have to be trained as builders. It's not something a person figures out on their suddenly, unless they use a manual. Even then they are most likely not going to be very good or efficient with no training from a real builder. Don't try to make sense of what someone built when they have never been a builder and have no training.

[@benign4823]

​@@aylbdrmadison1051I guess the "real builder" race has to be implemented in Skyrim eventually and have it be written in lore that they suddenly appeared with all the knowledge they need like it happened irl.

[@impishrebel5969]

I was literally thinking about this the other day when watching my husband play through Dragonborn. I made a comment about everything in Skyrim looking like decades old, half ramshackle buildings. "the Skaal village is so much nicer and more like Bruma than most of Skyrim. It's like the rest of Skyrim don't know how to actually do anything like building houses. Even if it's just from a dev standpoint they shouldn't be looking like dillapidated huts, that can be fixed with a stupid texture." Honestly the Skaal feel is way more like what I expected when Skyrim first came out. Sometimes you see the nice stuff that looks decent like the dining tables but most of it just is sloppy. People who make houses for a living or have skills to live off the land like the Nords do, wouldn't make sloppy houses. I've seen freshly made authentic replica buildings at historical places with historical tools using modern people that wouldn't be nearly so skilled in the techniques compared to comtemporary people to the buildings, and they never looked so awful. And then there's the fact that Skyrim's supposed to be cold so you'd think they have technology to insulate their houses especially the wood ones farther north like Morthal. Dear future devs: just because your game is set in an "ancient-style" fantasy or, god forbid, historical, things *don't have to look like they're actually thousands of years old* and sloppy, if they're newly built and just *old fashioned* compared to modern houses, okay? Even if you don't adhere 100% to woodworking principles.

[@toxicmale2264]

Hearthfire homes. The ceiling over the dining room/living room area. It's supposed to be a new house.

[@nj8833]

Wow, Eden seems just crazy knowledgable. not just at breaking down good woodworking practice, but recognizing cultural factors as well?? and knowing random stuff about itinerant governments?? loved this concept and collab

[@OzixiThrill]

To be fair, itinerant courts were part of most European people's secondary education.

[@darkhole9695]

@@OzixiThrill eden sounds american tho and a lot of us are horribly ignorant of non-us history

[@Wohlfe]

Historical and cultural context is kind of part and parcel with traditional woodworking, same with studying art and fashion.

[@ProbablyEzra]

As for some of the random nails, there's always the consideration that some of the wood was reused from other projects and some nails just weren't removed, but even than that'd mean the builders were a bit lazy

[@ravencollins5638]

Drunk nords so yes

[@bumblebeagan]

real life lore: textured surfaces on the ground are usually for the blind/low sighted! they help them figure out where to stand, where crosswalks are, and where to walk. they surfaces aren't always well taken care of or respected but they're very important

[@iivin4233]

The random nails. I propose that many of Skyrim's buildings used to be nicely sided, but all of that was ripped down, burned, or deteriorated without the locals having any ability to replace the siding. The random nails and boards floating in place could also be signs of multiple remodels, with old structures being replaced by new forms of support in subsequent remodels. This all could also be evidence of work done by inexperienced workers. Is this because local skilled craftspeople have, for some reason, disappeared or that there were never any local craftspeople. In the latter case, perhaps the skilled tradespeople responsible for many of Skyrim's buildings came from elsewhere. Maybe they came from The Empire.

[@Xris_Kinder]

I'm just grateful Austin gave us all wood.

[@hadrian318]

Is it Monday already?

[@Xris_Kinder]

@@hadrian318 ...you're able to stop having wood before he posts again each week? Maybe I should consult my physician.

[@shelbydont]

I learned more from Eden in this video about construction than I learned from taking a construction course in school. They really knew their shit!! Dropping history and everything. Damn!

[@1layer724]

9:09 The textured dots on the sidewalk do provide grip but are also typically used as a mobility aid for blind people!

[@Nachiebree]

the little nubs on the dining table are to prevent skateboard grinding

[@pembertr0n]

I think Zelda TotK would be a good candidate for this, lots of diverse construction techniques and styles. Kakariko has Japanese buildings and lots of scaffolding, Tarrey Town has Hudson’s weird square style, Hateno has stone with wood, the vaguely Mongolian stables, etc.

[@srahhh]

And Addison has his signposts.

[@Xris_Kinder]

This is the type of quality content you can only find at the behest of Any Austin. Praise be thy unconventional humor.

[@mshafferart]

I'm very curious what other friends you could concievably pull in on another video like this. This is a really strong start to another investigative series!

[@armorclasshero2103]

Meekos cabin roof is what a thatch roof looks like without thatch, I think.

[@LootGoblinPenny]

Their expertise is really fun, because I would never have known what was wrong with the woodwork if I'd seen it myself, but now I cannot unsee it.

[@JaxontheOkay]

one of the funniest parts to me was the pointing out of the slightly anachronistic wood carving patterns in stuff like the thrones lol like you gotta be such a cool person to notice stuff like that

[@Bone8380]

​@@JaxontheOkayAnachronism doesn't exist in Elder Scrolls. It's not Earth.

[@JaxontheOkay]

@@Bone8380 i know. but most places in the universe are based off or inspired by real places. skyrim is inspired by scandinavian countries, specifically ancient ones. i may have used the term slightly wrong but i hope you understand what i was saying

[@any_austin]

Eden’s pronouns are they/them. My favorite part of the video was the crossover between woodworking and speculative anthropology as we discussed how perhaps the benches were grooves to support the citizens of Skyrim needing to perform little jigs on them. Thank you Eden for participating in my video. If you want to know more about wood follow them on instagram @edenklingercraftworks.

[@VeronicaSipe]

That was my second favorite part. My favorite was when you told them to shut up to cover up your bad segue.

[@lucamace5888]

this is what happens when we don't get Elder Scrolls 6

[@jackc1186]

These video subjects are so random, absurd, genius, and absolutely fascinating for some reason. Love it!

[@clockworkdimetrodon1001]

The roof in Miko’s cabin looks to me, and I’m very likely wrong, to be lathe to attach thatch to, while the thatch is obviously missing.

[@Bronze998]

Could some of the wood be reused? That might explain the random nails

[@johnsnow5125]

the houses of Skyrim might have been exclusively constructed from shipwrecks

[@velvetdraws3452]

@@johnsnow5125 i'd hate to see the beaches then, probably more wood than sand

[@andrewsad1]

This is obviously very funny, but there's something about the videos you make that bring these games to life in ways that other video essayists can't. Camelworks and TheEpicNate are great, but their focus on the stories that the devs tell through objects and NPCs betray the fiction. Rather than try to explain what the devs were thinking, in your employment surveys and tours through unremarkable places and reviews of set design, you take these worlds in as they are. It feels less like a game designed by people, and more like a real country that we'te visiting. Even if the people of that country really like putting random nails through boards.

[@sueperbrova5534]

The idea of waking up to 2 people climbing over me talking about the knots in my bed frame scares me and i dont even have a wood bed frame

[@hj-ct2qi]

i could only dream of having a friend as cool as Eden. fantastic video!

[@fraxinus1877]

As someone who got really mad about the terrible botany in Outlander to the point where I only made it like 3 episodes in, this is my kinda video

[@lilthreegame7991]

Skyrims woodworking, good from a cursory glance but it does not hold up upon closer inspection.

[@TripleBarrel06]

Hey one thing, that structural beam layout could be a bridle/through-tenon joint with cross-lapped horizontals on top. In that format the two braces on each side of the vertical beam would be a single piece that passes through the vertical, then the horizontals interlock and stabilise the joint with their weight. There's some pretty legendary medieval carpentry joints that we don't use now, which is part of why it was such a shame that the Notre Dame's spire was burnt down, we lost some really amazing carpentry there that is really hard to replicate because we don't need that degree of skill anymore.

[@Titan.Tantrum]

Glad to see the extra budget being put to good use so that we could have such prestigious and professional guests on the show!

[@UnreadyBelief]

5:58 how does the editor not know what the inside of a tree looks like

[@MoosenOggen4343]

Exaaaaaactly

[@thomaswalsh4552]

Could the arms not be connected via mortis and tenon or a similar method? Dodgy reading from the start

[@jaydenpaulus4423]

I really love your channel. You've made me appreciate all of my games more. I've learned that analysis of a game can be far more than the story and the gameplay. Video games can be so immersive and you have taught me that the player can choose to be more immersed. Thank you.

[@Doylt]

We love to see effective cooperation between !local authorities, glad Austin could pull in a consultant from Skyrim's building safety regulator. They might be the only person working there but still!

[@Bluesabara]

Those aren't nails. They're broken off iron daggers adventurers would sell after trying to lvl up smithing.

[@josephmontanaro2350]

Fun fact, the wasted nails could be seen as a status symbol, pre extruted nails they were super tedious and time consumeing to make, not sure if theres historical examples but i could see it as a status thing when showing off if your rich

[@ValseInstrumentalist]

God I can't wait to see what Austin comes up with next. He consistently makes all these weird videos so entertaining. I'd like to see Realtor Austin trying to sell houses in Elder Scrolls or Zelda or whatever.

[@shinespider]

I think for the walls to make sense, you have to assume that they're much thicker than they appear. If you have two layers of planks, outer and inner, with space between to pack in insulation, then the nails could make sense as a way to hold the whole thing together.

[@iamaguy99]

"There could be pegs coming internally" Same dude

[@pdan4]

I think the walls of Meeko's cabin are actually triple-layer cross-lamination. Horizontal planks (exterior) - vertical planks (internal) - horizontal planks (interior).

[@B_Skizzle]

Eden's technical knowledge and your trademark deadpan delivery are a great combo. It'd be cool to see more guests on the channel!

[@DemonPlayDemonOut]

I assumed the random nails in older structures are because they're made from salvaged wood and the builder just couldn't be bothered to repair or fill old nail holes.

[@flynnbrockway6651]

In regards to the stringer on the dining table I noticed that the tenon that is visible on the outside face of the legs looks to be the same size as the whole stringer meaning that there is no shoulder on the tenon which kind of stops it being very effective at strengthening the leg structure

[@XhanAnimations]

Today I learned that all benches should have a bread board edge

[@blazingblight2706]

They'd look cooler, so I'd definitely approve.

[@Theo_the_cat_guy]

I think the executioners block might be more realistic than you think, given skyrims climate, provided it came out of a really, really big tree

[@TeaSerpent]

It has nothing to do with the climate. But that is the correct direction for the grain to face on an executioners block (end grain facing upward). They were made like that for a number of reasons.

[@VanitasVraz]

I love thinking about wood. I can't wait to think about wood for the next (however long this video maybe x2 if I watch it again)

[@Vennnaya]

Love how both these guys have the most generic american voices ever so it just sounds like one guy talking to himself the whole video

[@sterlingpratt4901]

Oh man get experts involved in minutia as a whole series, I'm so into it

[@Iron_Prince]

I’d be down to see more collabs with Eden. This was a silly concept and I ended up learning a thing or two about woodworking thanks to them.