SLS 3D Printing AT HOME?

[@awzup57]

as someone who works with metal powder in an SLM 280 and an EOS M290 everyday, I can tell you that it doesnt matter HOW careful you are, you are going to need to clean powder off of thigns all of the time no matter what. Working with those machines, I would NEVER put a machnine that uses powder in a place connected to where I live.

[@darrend7352]

Hi all, I've worked with SLM and fully agree with this comment. I've moved to work in a university now and run additive manufacturing courses. I can say the main difference between metal powders for SLM vs the polymer powders for SLS are mainly reduced risk of fires and explosion with polymer powders (it essentially is not combustible in the volumes present in polymers). HOWEVER, the risks to your respiratory system are not reduced. This process looks an absolute death trap at the moment, rooms should have constant ventilation generally as will as extractor hoods in local area to improve safety. The PPE should really be a full respirator at a minimum, not a paper mask only. The companies selling the machines are the only people showing less PPE, bias maybe? I personally know researchers in the space who have been in the additive powder process space since before health risks were known. These people are now on oxygen tanks to breath almost constantly with doctors giving them months and years worth of remaining life expectancy. Do not do this at home, it is not safe.

[@Titan3DAZ]

I work with HP mjf all day. I can 100% agree. This is a mess that is not going to fair well with the general population. There is so much that micronics haven't yet considered. I really do love what they're doing, but wow, this thing misses the mark by miles.

[@inversereaction5371]

what about something like a garage ?

[@Titan3DAZ]

@@inversereaction5371 With lots of ventilation and a really good seal on the door to the home would be a minimum. Personally I would get a lot of HEPA filtration going, an explosion proof vacuum and change clothes before coming back into the home. It is very important to not bring any powder around with you.

[@3DCrimson]

yeah, especially with the way that people handle resin i bet we're going to have an even more serious microplastic problem with this plastic powder being used by people who arent trained or who dont care about proper usage and disposal

[@JeffsPrints]

Not sure if it's just me, but at 1:16 I get a weird video glitch.

[@RedSlashAce]

Same

[@borisjevic6338]

It is from 1:14 to 1:18 a whole 4 seconds and we do not know of what he said. It must have been "Above Top Secret"...

[@albertguzman3051]

Same here, Joel froze for a short while and came back when saying "slicer" lol

[@_Daegon616]

Same here

[@TheMotoDude420]

CIA had to cover up what he said

[@leogoldschmidt1549]

Thank you for mentioning the safety side of SLS printers as I always see promotional material where no one is wearing PPE. I Interned at a full scale SLS facility while in college and as long as anyone was working with the printers, the room had to be locked down. When working with the printers you were required to wear a full respirator hood, anti-static shoes, a chemical and flame retardant lab coat, and disposable gloves to be compliant with lab safety. Clean up also required a specialized anti-static shop vacuum and everything had to be cleaned before the room could be opened again.

[@MPTurtleman]

Also thank you for mentioning Taylor Swift. I feel like she is underrated and should get more attention 😂

[@kev2034]

Thank you I was wondering if I was worrying too much but that mask is not enough for working with metal printers

[@awzup57]

these are all the same precautions I have to use in the Metal laser powder bed printers I use at work. The powder is no joke whether metal or plastic. It WILL cause long term health effects if handled improperly.

[@conorstewart2214]

Based on that I don’t think this technology is ready or safe for home or hobby use. Sure he used a mask and gloves but they aren’t perfect and it doesn’t stop the powder from getting in the air or on surfaces where it will later be dispersed into the air. The particles are that fine that they will probably stick around for a while in the air so just taking a mask off as soon as you are done likely is not anywhere near enough protection.

[@leogoldschmidt1549]

@@conorstewart2214 I would agree with that statement. The reason resin printers can work in the home/hobby space despite also being dangerous is because spills can be contained and fumes can be extracted. You spill SLS powder and that stuff is airborne. even after settling, it can get kicked up again and stick to clothes. Hence why SLS powder is treated a lot like you would asbestos.

[@OnlyMustache]

Hello, I am an Additive Manufacturing Subject Matter Expert for the Department of Defense. It is astonishing how often safety, health, and wellbeing considerations are overlooked in the context of additive manufacturing products. As highlighted by others in this discussion, issues such as static discharge, electrical arcing, and fire hazards are significant concerns. These factors make the use of such technologies in a home environment highly inadvisable. It is important to note that engaging in these activities could lead to your home insurance policy being invalidated. For instance, at timestamp 12:10 in the shared video, the use of a non-explosion-proof vacuum cleaner is clearly demonstrated, posing a substantial risk. Moreover, a simple mask is insufficient for depowdering processes; typically, a controlled environment such as a glovebox is necessary. The particulate material involved behaves like tiny marbles, spreading ubiquitously and presenting further hazards. I could elaborate further, but the key takeaway is to ensure you thoroughly understand and mitigate the risks involved in additive manufacturing.

[@rsilvers129]

I agree on the dangers but your insurance won’t be invalidated except for fraud such as arson. Any accidents, such as a home burning down, would still be covered if it was not intentional.

[@rsilvers129]

There are tens of millions of people using Home Depot Shop Vacs as dust collectors in their wood shop.

[@OnlyMustache]

@@rsilvers129 Regrettably, I did not elaborate sufficiently on that statement, so I agree with your point. However, in some instances, individuals operate businesses from their homes. Due to the increased risks associated with such activities, insurance companies may cancel your policy upon discovering this. I mention this to offer helpful clarification.

[@Audio_Simon]

To be honest, almost every manufacturing process is high risk. From using a sharp knife to disposing of oily rags, everything can be a hazard and the more you do it, the higher the chance of a bad day. Understanding the risks (education) is more important than using every PPE in sight.

[@jvsyoutube3298]

i have sucked gasoline/water mix from my cars gastank with a regular shop vac without an explosion (thankfully haha!) Yeah, but real grounding of all machines involved with fine powder, and most perferbly ATEX-certified machines everywhere.

[@FunnyHaHa420]

8:15 Technically you only get one set of lungs.

[@fasfan]

I thought that was weird too. Lol

[@MichaelTavel]

Wait, you didn't get your backup set? You need to check your packing list.

[@terranceroberts6259]

Didn’t you hear that you can rent them now. I’m sure i saw this on Repo Men. lol

[@KolMan2000]

No no, this is him proving he is an alien who misread the human anatomy textbook

[@LiveWire937]

not this guy, he printed some extras.

[@fasfan]

In 15 years we get a new run of mesothelioma commercials

[@armorhide406]

in their promotional material, they mentioned the relatively large particle size won't stay airborn but yeah... yikes

[@nickalfonso8616]

If you or a loved one have been diagnosed with mesothelioma due to your at home SLS Nylon 3d print you may be entitled to financial compensation

[@fasfan]

@@nickalfonso8616 lol... exactly

[@nicks1146]

Less than 70 microns typically will not stay airborne.

[@user-fy7ri8gu8l]

@@armorhide406 "stay" so it's definitely suspended for a time - and it's dangerous. It's just not permanently so. lol how reassuring.

[@pigloo147]

Scientists: You consume a credit card sized amount of micro plastics every week... Micronics: Those are ROOKIE NUMBERS! Me: Time to top up muh balls.

[@armorhide406]

ah yeah, they found microplastics in every dude's (and dog's) balls, didn't they

[@SianaGearz]

Fun fact: following an internal presentation, WWF printed a pamphlet saying scientists suggest that one might be consuming UP TO ABOUT 5g of plastic a week on average. The proverbial credit card. But the press reproduced it subtly but crucially wrong, "up to" kind of just disappeared. It was unclear for a while how the involved came up with this conclusion, but a paper by the same scientists came out a few months later. They took existing consumed particulate count estimates (confidence interval about 1-2 orders of magnitude, not great), and fitted various shapes to them up to 1mm in size (correctly but somewhat generously deciding that anything larger than that would no longer count as microplastics). The resulting estimate has a 7 order of magnitude confidence interval. At the top of it was the figure of 6.3g if memory serves, at the bottom a zero with many zeroes, and their estimate for highest-likelihood amount was 0.3g or was it 0.03g i forget, i can look it up for you if you really care. Not that it really matters with a confidence interval this loose, because these are effectively all slightly better than fantasy figures. I'm not saying 0.3g of plastic are healthy in microplastic form, and particulate count and area are likely more of a health hazard indication than bulk weight, and there is indication that we should be worried, but... please it's not 5g, that's absurd and very unhelpful and misleading.

[@demonjay3450]

If you you heat the balls to 70 degrees you can extrude the filament out your peehole. My benchy is extremely quick due to my large nozzle size.

[@samhale5413]

And Joel will be finding media powder in the room for years to come 😂

[@philharris9631]

...like finding sand in your buttcrack after visiting the beach. 🙂

[@XciterD]

An air purifier and regular vacuuming is definitely required

[@riakata]

You will need a hepa filtered vacuum and not just hepa type filter it has to be a explosion resistant antistatic self contained absolute hepa filter (expensive) otherwise you could cause a powder explosion or just spread the dust around even more. The fume extractors for these are normally absolutely massive the in machine filter and dust filter they ship are just going to spread the dust around so you can't visually see it. You should also have a particle counter to make sure the exhaust, fresh air intake, filters, vacuum are all working properly.

[@F3PIZZA]

@@riakataOK, instructions super clear, working on a print that will facilitate HEPA filtering for my buttcrack.

[@kerbalengineeringsystems7415]

Using this thing without a full respirator is kind of crazy...

[@riakata]

Yeah the company claims incorrectly the powder is safe as long as you don't spill large quantities of it like say dropping the cake on the ground. And it is safe to use non explosion resistant home vacuums as long as you don't suck up the entire bottle like say if you dropped the cake on the ground by accident or the shaker cube cracks and dumps a whole bottle on the ground.

[@kerbalengineeringsystems7415]

@@riakata I do not understand why they're marketing this to the home user. It's just not a feasible process for that market. There's a reason why StuffMadeHere is basically the only maker channel I can think of with an SLS setup, and his Formlabs Fuse1 setup runs about $28,000, and he only has it because he literally invented the Formlabs Form3.

[@th3oryO]

Any powder is bad for your lungs, but plastic/resin powder? No bueno

[@vintageludwig]

@kerbalengineeringsystems7415 yeah even having open eyes can be dangerous

[@MakersAcres]

Thank you for the review. Just wanted to give you a tip with media blasting. We have a few SLS machines at work (Imagineering) and after years of testing, we found that baking soda (purchased in bulk at McMaster) works the best for media blasting without doing damage to your parts.

[@xROBIx85]

i can confirm sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda is probably the best blasting media to use. I use it at work and its great.

[@MakersAcres]

@@xROBIx85 Ya, I was surprised that Formlabs and EOS had never heard of people using that for their blast media.

[@hellcoreproductions]

How come none of the videos I've seen on this show people wearing the right kind of PPE and have no proper work environment for it? A home is certainly not a place for SLS of any kind. The shoddy prototype transfer buckets really show how little thought for safety there is. That fan/filter combo is just a cute way to reassure you it's safe, but fine powders get everywhere and the whole area should be a managed zone, enclosed and with with airflow considerations. You will not see most of the dusts you inhale, that's why wash and change facilities are provided where these are worked with. The OSH guidelines for working with them are pretty strict on workplace exposure limits, even "inert" ones.

[@limbeboy7]

All of this could be avoid if the just figure out a way to make the powder a clay consistentsy. Or maybe increase particle size?

[@micronics3d]

Hey Joel, thanks for checking out our printer! Sorry the bin broke in so many places during shipping - for the production machines, we plan on switching to Reaction Injection Molding (RIM) for the bin, or adding sheet metal inserts to reinforce the FDM print, which should make it much more durable. Regarding the safety aspects, you should definitely wear a N95 respirator and gloves when handling the powder. However, it is worth mentioning that unlike metal powders, Nylon 12 is inert and non-toxic (though inhaling large quantities can still cause discomfort). The sift bin and dust extractor can keep you workspace pretty clean, but spills can still happen and of course, the sift bin can break. (also, we recommend placing the powder scoop on the build chamber BEFORE raising it up). We do NOT recommend setting this up in your bedroom or living/work space - instead, put it in your shop or garage - somewhere out of the way. For the brushing part, it is actually only necessary if you don't have a media blaster. If you have a media blaster, simply take the parts, break away the large chunks, and blast it directly. This make it much faster. Of course, we are planning to do another round of beta testing before the production machines - which is why we are stating a delivery time of 8-12 months after launch. Other creators have also experienced some manufacturing related tolerancing issues that are causing print issues, and we do plan on working with our sheet metal and CNC shop on dialling them in. Let us know if guys have any other questions!

[@JezzyCrazyTV]

❤️❤️❤️ SLS love ❤️❤️❤️

[@adamjones9717]

Hey Micronics Team, Correct me if I'm wrong PA12 ( Nylon) can be explosive if not correctly stored. Is this something to consider with the Micron / Material Storage. Thanks

[@micronics3d]

@@adamjones9717 PA12 is not really explosive unless suspended in very high concentrations in air (such as vacuuming up the entire bottle of PA12 with a household vacuum cleaner that is making sparks). When it is just sitting there in a bottle or in the printer, the risk is extremely low.

[@username9774]

@@adamjones9717 Flower is explosive if not correctly stored. Every slightly burnable powedr is explosive if incorrectly stored.

[@DrChiYT]

"Tolerance issues" doesn't seem to cover it though. It doesn't really make me feel good that seemingly every reviewer is getting this thing in a very broken condition. Strange Parts barely got his to even work, and it seemed a bit suspicious Micronics kept telling him to delay his criticism video until after the kickstarter launch and when he said no you asked for the printer back then. I'm glad Joel mentioned not backing unless you are okay throwing that money away. I really want consumer SLS to work, and the first person to do it will be very popular, so I'm rooting for you guys. I'm just not sure this is quite it yet.

[@davidf2281]

Watching this has made me realize that the prices of Shapeways SLS prints are entirely justified. Think I'll stick with them.

[@MarinusMakesStuff]

Shapeways is bankrupt btw.

[@arklanuthoslin]

SLS Nylon is amazing stuff. I ordered a print in that from shapeways of a wallet I designed basically just holds 6 credit cards and has a flexible "money clip" to keep them in. I've used it daily for over ten years now and it's never had an issue at all.

[@Anthromod]

One issue with SLS printers is that you can only re-use the material so much. So you have to throw out so much of the powder that enters the build chamber. This has a big impact on the economics of printing as a small part with tall geometry costs more than a larger part with shorter geometry. For small scale this tends to discourage prototyping, or one offs, and is more for predictable batch printing.

[@hanelyp1]

How much of that could be addressed by sifting and grinding used powder?

[@Anthromod]

@@hanelyp1 Not really as the issue is the high heat + oxygen chemically changing it. Basically the powder is heated to just below sintering temp and the laser pushes it over. I'm sure the suppliers over estimate the amount of powder you need to refresh, but for engineering parts you can't guarantee part properties with a low refresh rate. Powder near the printed parts also ages quicker so for dense builds it has more of an effect.

[@Julia________]

This is why we need home inert metal SLM ;) no oxidation so the only risk is clumping, which can indeed be sifted The only problem is that this requires something like gold, or already oxidized metals lol

[@flioink]

SLS at home? Oh boy, I hope you got a good air filtration system!

[@KombatJam]

Friend of a friend refuses to believe his resin printer doesn't have chemicals as he has a filter attachment on it. Uses it in the same small office. But also doesn't know why his eyes are puffy and he has rashes pop up. Resins and SLS powders and vapors are super dangerous. Filtered, outdoor extraction is really the only true safe way for these types of printers. Home printing is super cool, doesn't mean it's also super safe for your lungs / body.

[@conorstewart2214]

@@KombatJam yeah filters aren’t perfect and they do need replaced over time. From what other people in the comments have said, when working with SLS professionally it is done in a sealed but outside ventilated and filtered room whilst wearing full respirators with flame resistant lab coats and anti static everything to prevent sparks and the room needs cleaned up before it is unsealed and they are allowed out. That isn’t something that is feasible with a hobbyist in their home. Now micronics have commented and said not to do it in your bedroom or living space and to do it in a garage but that doesn’t seem enough, especially considering how the powder will get everywhere and kicked up into the air later. I don’t think this is ready for home use. Edit: unlike FDM which is safe and releases no particles or gasses when not printing, resin is constantly releasing fumes unless put back into bottles and sealed, SLS may be similar with powder getting spread through the air and onto surfaces, without proper cleanup it may stay in the air for a while.

[@Bastyyyyyy]

@@conorstewart2214 yeah, i mean the sealed room etc, is mostly needed because they print with metal powder that could literally kill you ^^ - here you "only" print with plastic. But if you have it in your hobby room, i can imagine your 3d printers wont like that fine dust... and slowly clogg up from all the dust & powder that the grease is catching.

[@riakata]

​@@Bastyyyyyyit is still ideal to have a dedicated room just for powder hygiene purposes even for plastic powders which still are explosion hazards just look at pa12 powder msds sheets to see the explosion hazard warnings. It can be done safely in a garage on a budget but you should expect to spend a few thousand dollars to get the supporting equipment to just do it safely if you are considering doing it. Never use it in living spaces you will get cancer.

[@Bastyyyyyy]

@@riakata 100%, i would never use it in my home. Reminds me of resin printing :) - 5 seconds of the smell trough a mask gives me headache/migranes for 1-2 days. I doubt super fine power is any better, And for that price of the machine, i think you could order a lot of SLS parts online & protective gear until the machine is worth it to justify it.

[@fntsmn]

Really nice to see what they are working on! I will be curious in the future to get one in house, but not from Kickstarter. I find fascinating how you can easily swap polymers without need to do a crazy amount of cleaning in the machine. I'm running for quite some time SLS production and even with all the right tools still a messy process. To be honest I think if they will have a better post-processing unit even if that mean pay 5k for it, it could be really worth it for the workflow but most importantly the safety of people. Highly recommend having a dedicated space, powder will be everywhere, even with industrial equipment you still find it on top of any surface. As well, SLS powders are not themselves explosive, but there is a risk of explosion when they are mixed with air, so highly suggested a static dissipative industrial vacuum to clean the spills of powder. Looking forward to seeing what they will do in the next 12-24 months.

[@CodexAdrian]

I love how someone looked at these extremely hazardous powder printers and thought "hmmm how can we put this inside someones house"

[@Ni5ei]

And I thought resin printing could be messy already. I don't see me using this in my apartment.

[@limbeboy7]

Can you imagine the prep time between prints? Also I heard the support sand is all waste. Who is going to process all that sand?

[@_Piers_]

"SLS printing AT HOME" Formlabs says "Nope"

[@sgfx]

12:00 You could place the box inside your media blaster (or a media blaster large enough) and combined prep workflow and dust control,

[@Bastyyyyyy]

you could, but then you cant reuse the powder anymore, since its mixed with the blast medium

[@matthewmiller6979]

Unless you use a second cabinet dedicated to breaking up the cake.

[@SirCharles.]

​@@Bastyyyyyyhe could use the actual sintering material as the blasting media as well.. it should work theoretically

[@sylekin]

per their kickstarter "Will you continue to build the Micron? While our mission to bring industrial-quality SLS to a much wider audience remains unchanged, we will not be continuing to work on Micron and will instead be integrating our ideas and research into Formlabs’ development roadmap. "

[@CraftComputing]

OMG, the cases turned out AMAZING! Very excited to see them in person. Thanks Joel!

[@danob9869]

(Just linking the message to the right person;) @5Komma5 4 hours ago Pro tip for your sensor buddy. Use deep sleep on an ESP32 and you don't need the distance between the micro and the sensor as there will be no heat buildup. With an ESP32 you can get the entire sensor smaller then the PCB of your micro controller. With ESPhome you don't even bother with firmware. Just configure it in .yaml and you are done.

[@alexbold4611]

Staff turn amazing, side effects of printing this at home will not.

[@DeathCoreGuitar]

Imagine how many of them you can print in one go on this machine, the full volume

[@Barnacules]

Fantastic video Joel 👏 All the reviewers are having problems like you’re having and also experience parts not moving right because of bad tolerances, etc. apparently the company is treating some reviewers poorly like Strange Parts. I hope that hasn’t been the case for you too when reporting the issues you’re having.

[@vinny5915]

the fact that you are not wearing PPE in the few seconds when the cake is first get exposed actually triggered me a bit. In addition, the hazard with SLS is actual the spills. It is good that you wear PPE when handling the pieces.The powder that spill onto your clothes and around your workshop that is still a concern. They will eventually make their way into someone's lungs.

[@tdg9281]

Apparently it's not THAT concerning for lungs, it's quite a large particle size, but it can cause irritation if you do it often

[@vinny5915]

@@tdg9281 Yeah.. it is not really a data driven concern. If anything, it is the fact that there is not enough data yet that is the concern. Only time can answer that.

[@riakata]

​@@tdg9281the msds for pa12 sls powders say to use engineering controls or totally self contained breathing if you cannot contain the powder with exhaust and filtration systems so I'd trust the msds from actual mfg's over the kickstarter mfg that seems to be downplaying any problem that is legitimately a thing

[@kirodrache]

Alright according to the comments I'm not the only one with the glitch at 1:15 Aside from that I'm glad to see a 3D printing KZbinr cover this machine because it seemed so insane and unbelievable that at first I thought it was an April fools joke when I first saw it's official reveal 🤯

[@robertschnobert9090]

I have the same glitch. Are you a furry? Awoooo haha my nephew is a furry but I forgot their species 🌈

[@KombatJam]

Got the glitch as well. 115 to 119

[@degreeless_engineering]

I've had this glitch occur on several of my YT video uploads. It's definitely on YT's end. The only way to get it to go away is to reupload and hope it doesn't happen again.

[@JeffGeerling]

Just saw it mentioned in William Osman's last video leading up to Open Sauce. Looks like it could be a killer device! But still a bit more than what most people could swing in a house. But one step closer to the Star Trek replicator!

[@glowytheglowbug]

pi man!

[@FutureChaosTV]

"Killer" indeed. Killing the customer.

[@alexbold4611]

Star Trek???!!!! Star Mess!!!! Wow, just wow, it is supposing a bunch of smart people here watching video about leading edge tech…. How you can’t see outcome of using this at home and create SLS printers for home market? 1. Particle size: Joel's mask, vacuum???!!! Are you for real? You need some king of electrostatic filtration system to catch them all. 2. People, people, people… How many people never use kitchen sink to wash resin printers done with water washable resin? Answer is 0. So there all this staff go? Exactly… 3. Why? Resin printers will give you same resolution/detail level. And resin printers in hands of lot of people is a mess, so let’s go one step up and create a bigger mess with very small dust like particles. Will be even cooler to know that no one can escape plastic in food anymore.

[@JeffGeerling]

@@alexbold4611 That's why I said "more than what most people could swing in a house" ;)

[@KnowArt]

what are the upsides if it can't do metal? Just the lack of supports?

[@chronokoks]

what? this is a machine for plastics... plastics are not metal... do you get it? what needs to be said more? wtf...

[@KnowArt]

@@chronokoks yes exactly. what's the upside of this machine over other 3d printing techniques that also do plastic. I mean, if it did metal it would be cool. But this seems like a big mess for... also plastic.

[@TouchofDepth]

@@chronokoks umm... do you know what FDM 3d printing?? plastics... do you just want to be a contrarian for the fun of it?

[@chronokoks]

@@TouchofDepth what? no he asked a dumb question on a machine that was never designed or even came close to sintering metal powder

[@benjikim6687]

@@chronokoks Thats exactly the point. If it can't print metal parts, whats the reason to use this printer compared to just fdm printers? My answer would be that nylon 12 has a higher heat resistance and strength than pla, and its very isotropic. But the amount of materials and colors you can use is very limited so if you aren't really printing parts that need those mechanical properties then SLS is not really the better choice.

[@JayEm16]

This is the 3dpn content i love! Awesome video as always!

[@Nordic_Mechanic]

This is a very significant machine. Opening the door to an awesome market. Good on you Micronics!

[@technosworld2]

It's obvious they put a ton of work and R&D into this, so I hope their Kickstarter is successful and that they can remedy the beta issues. I can definitely see a prosumer market for this

[@dtibor5903]

Nah, prototyping is the easiest part. Scaling up production at reasonable costs is really really really hard

[@dtibor5903]

And right now i can tell that circuit board shown in the video is expensive because it needs human labor to build it.

[@offearth3d]

I'm super impressed with this machine and the quality of the prints you're getting from it. I hope they get the powder collection system sorted out. Printed containers are cool but we need something more stout and maybe some sort of automatic shaker?

[@Audio_Simon]

Haha, watching Stranger Parts 'experiance' with this printer right now.

[@pileofstuff]

Scotty's experience with this machine is a lot less encouraging than Joel's. I wonder who else has a demo/review machine so we can get a few more datapoints.

[@CBrick]

@@pileofstuff ltt

[@emanggitulah4319]

​@@pileofstuffscotty mentioned he was not the only reviewer with a mixed experience

[@pileofstuff]

@@emanggitulah4319 Understood. I would like to see those other reviews as well.

[@Audio_Simon]

I think THIS is the other reviewer, lol. I'm very excited for consumer SLS and wish these guys success. I only hope they are not too hasty to release something unfinished due to financial stress. PLEASE MICRONICS, TAKE YOUR TIME, GET IT RIGHT!

[@killthrash]

Great video Joel, I respect your Kickstarter disclaimer at the end and 100% agree with you. Hoping for their success.

[@3DPFactory1]

Safety issues aside and so glad you covered them, I find this so exciting. I have used a friend's industrial SLS machine and it was so cool. This one needs work but there is def a place for it in the domestic market. Love it and thanks Joel

[@conorstewart2214]

From what I have seen the safety precautions shown here are nowhere near enough and that this technology is not suitable for home use.

[@3DPFactory1]

@conorstewart2214 don't worry there will be tiktok challenge videos soon of people eating the stuff as they heard cake. 😉

[@cyclone3999]

Im not sure if this will be the machine to do it but its a step towards consumer grade metal 3d printing and thats awesome. Who knows? maybe they’ll add support for aluminum or something?

[@borisjevic6338]

@1:14 The video glitches for 4 seconds... It is a mystery what your words were.

[@RegularOldDan]

Yep - definitely an exciting development! I would maybe put this more in a "prosumer" sector, but nonetheless, this is something I see as opening a new world of prototyping in a small, home-business setting. Much as with early resin, I would definitely shy away as a general consumer, given all the extra stuff one would need. But you're right - this opens a door and we could very well see others on the market soon and those could offer a more refined experience. Congrats to Micronics!

[@mv2woods]

You need a special fire rated vacuum for that dust. Every other generic vacuum is a potential fire hazard ingesting that powder

[@riakata]

I think the mfg is insanely irresponsible in safety communication but even then they clearly lack experience with safety equipment you can get a good enough solution with a home vac a very long hose and a special ULPA toner vacuum cartridge that completely contains the dust and is purpose built for toner dust which is even finer than this dust and is even more flammable and static sensitive. And best of all it costs 50usd for one. There are ways of budget proper safety but the mfg seems content on the below minimum safety standard to clearly sell to a larger addressable market at the literal cost of lung cancer deaths which in my view is extremely unethical.

[@mv2woods]

@@riakata 💯 🎯

[@EverythingIsAJunkDrawer]

SLS was why I wanted to get into 3D printing in the first place. I can't wait to see this.

[@garthhowe297]

Just when I thought it couldn't get messier than resin printing. This would need a dedicated room, which doesn't make it consumer friendly.

[@conorstewart2214]

Some people I have seen in the comments that claim to have done it professionally have said that they need a dedicated room that is locked down when they have to go in and get the parts, the room is sealed with filters and ventilation, they are wearing respirators (not just masks) and they need special lab coats and vacuums and that the room needs cleaned before the room is unsealed and they are allowed out. So yes I would think that the safety shown here in the video or recommended by micronics is not anywhere near enough and that this technology is not ready for home or hobby use. Now if a company made a completely contained system where you just put a powder cartridge in one side and it spat out cleaned parts out the other then maybe that would be suitable for consumer use but so far this isn’t looking like it.

[@DangerousDac]

Frankly this looks as messy as Resin printing anyway. Resin is so not home safe.

[@gownerjones]

@@conorstewart2214 How freaking dangerous is that powder? Is it like asbestos?

[@jtjames79]

​@@conorstewart2214 This is definitely a minimally viable product. That bucket thing is beyond jank. Automating cleanup shouldn't be too hard. I would have the cake on a wire mesh, then vibrate. Maybe even use ultrasonics if you want to be clever.

[@ThatsPety]

@@jtjames79 I don't think it's that janky since if im not mistaken expensive commercial SLS printers have a similar post processing process. Which makes me think that a better solution is probably very hard. I'm just speculating though, could definitely be wrong on that

[@Ariannus]

My first experience with 3d printing was the SLS printers at J.B. Speed School of Engineering at the University of Louisville 25 years ago. Blew me away back then and is the reason I have my 3d printers than I have room to use now.

[@nadir3D]

Finally someone put his hand on this beast!

[@LordWiseWolf]

My very first experience with 3D printing was a powder printer that used epoxy in 2006. It was amazing and this makes me want one. It’s gonna take me about a year or so to save for one but home SLS has me excited.

[@dakotapahel-short3192]

so exciting to see this approaching affordable! this is some cottage industry lvl tools.

[@marcfruchtman9473]

This is a really cool technology. Also special thanks to you and the commenters for mentioning that working with these requires respiratory protection to prevent inadvertently breathing in the dusts. I am not sure that I like the way they do the "fan" thing tho. I think it might be better if they included a "plastic tent vent hood" for you to place the cake in ... and have the fan attached to it so that it always pulls air out of the tent, and prevents you from accidentally getting particles in your "environment" (Which clearly happens as you shake the container). If they include a mobile vent hood, it would not add too much to the cost, since it would essentially be low cost probably clear plastic and maybe some structural pieces and it would likely improve the safety, as long as it was properly filtered and vented.

[@riakata]

You have the right idea the dust processing should be done in a hood with all three sides covered the mfg solution is to reuse the glass to cover the top which isn't enough and the thin fan body is extremely risky as the airflow can be easily disrupted and blow back on the dust hazard.

[@megatronusprime1101]

too bad formlabs bought them out which means no consumer lever SLS printers Formlabs are gonna keep that out of reach for as long as possible

[@aquaticnstuff7666]

yeah it was all a rouse, controlling the competition, monopolistic pricing to keep profits up

[@UG3DBoss-54]

You hit it on the head, formlabs so called low cost SLS printer starts at 28K, and thats just the printer… you still need the other machines for cleaning and curing….. so, if you think that 3k price tag isn’t about to increase you must be dreaming…. They greedy, and its no way they going to let the masses get in yet, they going to keep that price up until they cant anymore., then it will start coming down.

[@gman9543]

Wow, this was interesting. Like resin printing, I"m guessing you need to add drain holes into enclosed areas so that the unsintered powder can be "drained". Looks like there's still a lot post-processing that needs to take place.

[@3DPrintingNerd]

The models are solid so there isn’t any unsintered powder inside.

[@kairi4640]

I always find it amusing the concept of a pre-made video, and "finding out together." 😂 Still cool though that they're at least trying to make it a public option. Got to start somewhere. I always found the metal printers interesting.

[@3DPrintingNerd]

it was true! I had no idea if what was in that cake was a success. I'm glad it was :)

[@SilverDashie]

SLS was the oldest form I remember. My dad had gotten some of his drawings made in 3d and sold some but they were WAY too brittle. I don't know if the current tech has fixed this fatal flaw with SLS but this is looking good for general people

[@Chaosghoul]

5:05 shiny spots mean your pressure is too high and/or you're too close with your media blaster

[@johnguynn5212]

Seems like drawing a vacuum on the lower chamber of the powder separator would work better than a filtered fan at the top. Also, having a vibrating box should help remove the loose powder compared to brushing the part or shaking the box.

[@thespider7898]

This dude does not take hazards seriously at all

[@richardwilson2621]

Not quite ready for home use but it has to start some where . Resin is about as dangerous as ill ever get with this art form . Thanks and high five joel for the effort you are the only one ive seen whos had this kind of success with this machine. Keep up the great work and thank you for all you do in the 3d printing world..........

[@danielkalliontzis7851]

How much is the powder?

[@BLBlackDragon]

SLS at home? Impressive. I might hold off on getting into resin printing, and go straight to this.

[@SeanLumly]

I like some of the features of SLS (integrated support, fine resolution, etc), but there are aspects that make it less desirable compared to FDM. 1) cost: powder is expensive and it can only be used so many times during print 2) materials: it currently is inherently single-material and single colour 3) cleanup: it's messy, and time consuming, and there is some danger of inhaling particles (which can't be good). I think FDM will eventually rival all of SLS's benefits and there are good examples of many, though they have yet to all be integrated. SLS still offers quality and layer uniformity that can't be matched by FDM currently, making this useful for specific applications, and certain enthusiasts.

[@SilverDashie]

Will say, the post processing steps here make you want to make tools to automate shaking off the powder. Maybe a vibrading belt or bed can be used to tumble them around

[@scottdawsonphd9216]

Ehhhh while I love the concept, there is obviously a large safety issue here. Even on a laptop I can see how much powder was going into the air and how much ended up on the desk. Some additional refining of the product to allow multiple air filters or some other method of moving the part from the powder without directly transferring the material post print would be ideal. Love the video, love the concept, hate the overlying H&S problem.

[@projetospark3d451]

Great video! It's amazing that SLS 3D printing is coming to us!! The part of the video where he starts cleaning the parts reminded me of when I started printing in SLA after years of printing on an FDM 3d printer, we need to be a lot more careful and man...that's a lot of effort. I've never bought anything on Kickstarter (I'm from Brazil) but I get really excited when I see a cool project like this, but I agree with you, spend money you might lose.

[@username9774]

I am very hyped about this thing

[@kongyiu]

This makes resin printing clean and easy. I hope they will make the process cleaner and easier.

[@zeke7100]

See the major problem with this """Desktop""" SLS printer is that you need a whole workshop to use it too. Something they very avidly avoided mentioning in their videos showing the printer off. Yeah you can fit it on a desk where you would put your computers and stuff if all you were doing is sitting it there as it prints, but you need a dedicated table to do all the things, a dedicated sandblowing box thing, etc. It's really not a desktop SLS printer because of this. If I wanted a desktop 3d printer, I'd get either a resin printer which needs only 3 small machines. The resin printer itself, a washing bin, and a UV spinning stand, and you could fit all that on a table with ease. But honestly my biggest issue is that they are marketing this as a "cheap" "affordable" and "very easy to use" SLS printer, when it very much is not.

[@jvsyoutube3298]

resin print on your desk where youre working? well, i would say that also needs a dedicates space with good ventilation.

[@mackmind]

Awesome start, though any kind of more automated cleanup would be useful for less professional use - maybe a vacuum and ultrasonic cleaner integrated with the dust bin or washing all the dust off to a flush chamber and evaporating it later? I obviously don't know how industrial SLS deals with the leftover dust though.

[@sleepib]

The question I have is how much powder will cost. The company selling this printer is out of stock, and the cheapest nylon I found in stock elsewhere is like $100/kg or more.

[@username9774]

it will also be around 100$/kg, maybe if they get big that price will come down slightly but even good Nylon filament costs 80-100$/kg so don't rely on that happening

[@sleepib]

@@username9774 I think the filament prices are more because it's a low volume market, pellets are much cheaper.

[@ethannorton564]

current prices on their website range from $220 to $300 for 5.6L of whatever media you get

[@sleepib]

​@@ethannorton564 So around $90/kg, but still out of stock.

[@rockaway0beach]

There is a lot of improving to be made, and i talk more about postprocessing than the incremental developments in quality always attatched to a start-up campaign. But like the pellet extruder FDM printer i've seen form some other user here, I'm happy people are dedicating themelves to this and that this exists. I hope it reaches the point of mainstream use, something about the dust cleaning and manipulation seems like the bigger barrier in user experience.

[@Tanner3D]

It felt like Mr. Rogers when he was putting on his hoodie as he wrapped up the episode. Awesomeness. Great video and an exciting future in 3D printing is guaranteed and I hope Micronics is a big part of it.

[@mv2woods]

FYI using a dust mask like that does not protect you especially if you have a beard. The sealing against your face is about the equivalent of holding a paper towel over your face. Invest in a good mask and strongly consider using a positive pressure HEPA rated respirator. You really don't want nylon particles ending up in your lungs

[@esurfrider7687]

I can already envision future iterations of consumer SLS with built in vacuums for part separation. Would be excellent if it could be automated. Very impressive 1st generation. I don’t have a need for such a printer at this time though. Very cool! 👍🏻

[@matthewpatterson3621]

well this aged like nylon filament left outside

[@Jessterrr]

Hopefully, Micronics will eventually provide metal powders too. Affordable metal SLS 3d printing locally or in my own new small business would be awesome. The nylon results are impressive, but for figurines, it's a tough sell when a SLA printer setup costs less than $300 and provides comparable results.

[@potoker2296]

Micronics got acquired by formlabs so that Kickstart campaign is canceled. Formlabs bought them out due to the size and price being poised to under cut formlabs by 60 to 80 percent. So formlabs bought out micronics and that machine will not be produced. Sucks but I still hope that metal sintering will become more affordable, since it would drastically change the parts world and actually could upset "manufacturing secrets" of companies who upcharge for their custom styles.

[@aquaticnstuff7666]

its just another example of capitalism

[@potoker2296]

@aquaticnstuff7666 well yeah, but it's their own choice. Freedom is most important. If they didn't want to make money then they wouldn't ever make anything new, the company which bought it micronics is chinese based so you can see that even communist ideology is performing the same moves as you do in a free market. I think according to the press releases and the rumors surrounding this merger that they are going to make a device simular to the one in the kickstarter just will have formlabs software and will be manufactured in China. Alot of actual manufacturing jobs are done in China since they already have the manufacturing industry and pay their employees less then America so it brings the overhead down. Plus asmuch as id like this to be madein America I understand that the price for a unit wouldn't be at all affordable for a consumer market.

[@neverstoppedme]

Genuine question: Besides being a very cool innovation, what are the advantages of SLS printing over other options? Is it just that it combines the detail of resin with materials previously only available in filament?

[@Resyektt]

No supports are needed since the items are submerged in the plastic also sls is suitable for metal so this is a step closer to accessible metal sls printing

[@neverstoppedme]

@@Resyektt Thank you!

[@5Komma5]

Pro tip for your sensor buddy. Use deep sleep on an ESP32 and you don't need the distance between the micro and the sensor as there will be no heat buildup. With an ESP32 you can get the entire sensor smaller then the PCB of your micro controller. With ESPhome you don't even bother with firmware. Just configure it in .yaml and you are done.

[@WindCatcherRC]

I'm wondering if a downdraft table would be better suited to collect the dust?

[@makelvin]

I am not too sure you should compare Micronics with Bambu Lab. Bambu Lab pushed out an excellent polished product that is easy to use for the masses but on a fairly established technology. Micronics’ product is far from easy to use or seem polished in anyway. Clearly SLS technology is not anywhere near as established as FDM filament is at the moment. It is messier than the resin printing process; but the final finished part could have the potential to be phenomenal. It seems to me that Micronics just want to make this printer functional while keeping it low cost. I don’t think ease of use is even high on their priority list at the moment. This is the opposite of what Bambu Lab is trying to do. So comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

[@Resyektt]

They’re still a year away from production? Bambus sent out test units far closer to production also while what bambu dud for fdm its less of a feat than what micronics is trying to do

[@CBrick]

a lot of the bambu printers in the beginning were bad, didn't work/ got broken in transit. They didn't start perfect

[@gerthddyn]

Joel, is there a way to use some kind of ultrasonic chamber to break apart the cake? Will that be something that gets more attention? Unlike your X1C coverage, I don't think that I'm willing to plunge into this with this kickstarter. This was really cool though.

[@irekjakobik5043]

9:36 A bit loud? This machine makes sounds like a heavy metal band!

[@ivanluhi]

*Dreams and expectations shattered* 😂 P1S looks even better now...

[@paulpardee]

Oh, Joel... My dude... You deserve better than that pancake compressor! Check out California Air Tools compressors (I'm sure there are others that are just as good but I know that brand). You can have them running in your house and not wake anyone up. Super quiet.

[@ZomBeatBrainZ]

Try soda blasting. You should be able to do it with the same blasting setup. May produce a finer finish.

[@CrudelyMade]

didn't try a dimensional test part? how long does it take to do a benchy? hard to do a comparison without basic info like this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@Ron_Ventura]

The benchy might take 30mins (wild guess) but then there’s about 14 hours of post processing - getting the part out, media blasting, cleaning the mess.

[@CrudelyMade]

@@Ron_Ventura the media blasting with a cabinet several times the size of the printer, plus used material t do the blasting is extra cost.. it's a lot of extra money for a-blasting cabinet, air compressor, etc.. and then the medium each time. :-/ the latest flsun does an 8 minute benchy. so.. maybe this printer is better for 'final product' than prototyping. it's a a lot of space and money to just reach a decent 'product'...

[@syranth8912]

I'll always love filament printing but I am very glad that liquid and now dust printing are picking up steam.

[@1975aphill]

Having done a fair amount of research into dust collection, I feel it is extremely irresponsible to tell people this is something they should put in their home.

[@riakata]

This is not even remotely similar to a bambulabs printer this is like buying a welder with some sunglasses and a kn95 mask for PPE. And then saying probably safe to use in you bathroom under a washroom fan.

[@FT91-z5j]

The reason why I stopped 3d printing at home is I discovered the proper way to Deal with mikro particles that gets in the air even by FDM printing. It's like in the sixties everything is safe 😂

[@mortalwombat5811]

I'd love to see some testing on how strong/stiff/abrasion-resistant these parts are compared to FDM-printed nylon parts. While support-free printing is nice for decorative pieces, its the potential utility for functional prints with complex geometry that I'm most interested in.

[@hanelyp1]

The manta ray gives us a partial answer by breaking under modest bare handed bending. Which suggests far from grunt proof.

[@ShawnChristopher10101]

Micronics KZbin videos are great. If I had a free $3k I'd be very compelled to pick one of these up.

[@mariospanayiotou6644]

You know these will kill you if you print at home right? A single paper mask is not nearly enough protection. Read the other comments

[@donaldburkhard7932]

They should make the screened part vibrating! Won’t have to shake it yourself. Make a circular media blaster where ring goes up/down around the parts? Size of chamber already have.

[@username9774]

1:15 gotta love premiere pro

[@Hi-hw8tl]

yes adobe is shit

[@3DPrintingNerd]

Hahaha HOW DID YOU KNOW??? :)

[@username9774]

​@@3DPrintingNerd It's always premiere doing this, you also used to work at adobe so that was a hint of you using that

[@OrgathmTech]

Maybe a vibrating motor and flexibel (rubber/spring) stands for the filterbox would be a nice idea. Many , but not so strong vibriation. Motor + unbalanced wheel into the bottom.

[@NightFate]

I'm far from a materials expert, but generally anything I don't want in my eyes I also don't want in my lungs. Please consider using goggles instead of relying on glasses for eye safety, you seem like a good dude and it would suck to see you suffer issues just from trying to share cool stuff with your audience. This appears to be airborne particulate versus something directional like wood kickback from a saw, and as such requires a good seal on both your mask and eyewear, if not more.

[@SmallShopConcepts]

try vapor blasting/honing, it will burnish the finish to give it a smooth shiny finish

[@585ronin]

We only get one set of lungs. Lol

[@TrasherBiner]

One of the great things of SLS very expensive beta experimental machines is that you don't have to use them. I will never complain how tedious cleaning resin prints is again.

[@username9774]

well it turned out to just be a investment pitch all along with no interest in selling a consumer printer

[@Shenepoy]

if it's less than 2k for the entire set this would insanely good

[@username9774]

3k, close

[@coaltowking]

What are the benefits of SLS if you're only using materials available with other printing methods?

[@benon3d]

quality i guess? and lack of support material.

[@benon3d]

but i suppose the unsintered powder is just as hard to remove as supports.

[@samarchepas]

Cool and interesting BUT that's a hard pass for me. I value my health and don't want to deal with lung problems in 10 years (so have to wear a mask + gloves at all time when using it...and have to deal with dust all over where your printer is) so I'll stick to FDM

[@whoa_guy]

Ultra Fine Particle + how much does the powder cost? yeah... btw 9:48 aerosol UFP?

[@MrDonXX]

Kickstarter Canceled - Micronics

[@limbeboy7]

The additional machines needed post prep. Vacuum cleaner. And support-sand processing makes this not viable for a home setup