SMALL GOALIES... Play DEEP(er) | Professional Goalie Coach Analysis

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[@blainebennett]

Reverse hot take, it's less about size and more about speed/mobility and ability to see/read the play. There is an ideal depth for every situation.and depending on your abilities you may have to compromise more or less on that ideal depth.

[@griffinwangen8776]

I agree

[@jamiephillips30]

Yes, that is my point.

[@hellolondonmusic]

came here to say this

[@Atmo_nS]

As a goalie who grew up in the 90 early 2000s playing HS hockey everyone was coaching challenge challenge challenge. Especially being smaller at 5'9" its all my coaches wanted me to do. While this did make me become a better skater, I felt the downsides as shown in your vid. As I've gotten older and educated myself more with videos like these, goaltending has gotten so much easier for me despite getting older and slower lol. Lately, I've been trying to stay at the top of the crease, and in hindsight now that you post this video, I think I'll take a step back and still be okay and allow myself more time on those cross crease plays and pass option plays in general. I still track pretty well so I don't think I will be hurt too badly by backing up.

[@jamiephillips30]

You hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. If a goalie is good at tracking, then a few inches back won’t matter. If they are bad at tracking those few inches forward still won’t matter because they are bad at a critical skill

[@BigDuzPimpin]

I'm a smaller goalie at 5' 8", always felt this way when I played a bit more aggressive, that I was as confident as I was when I was a bit closer in the blue, this makes a lot of sense to me, thank you, for not making me feel crazy.

[@robanthes1308]

You taught me this like 6 yrs ago in Hamilton when i decided to switch from D to play goalie, i was struggling with shots coming down the wing when they go far side. You basically taught me to stay inside the crease and i have never looked back since that lesson. im 5'9 and play at MAX toes touching top of crease.

[@gazoinked3546]

Smaller goalie here, I often love hearing chirping from the bench telling me to take more space on a shot that's already covered in angle and depth. In today's game as a smaller goalie, I find it tough to take that space and figure a way back sanely to cover the passing shot, let alone a deke. Anyway, great video, you're validating all of my responses to date.

[@cglasford1]

Thanks for the clarification. That post was definitely a hot take and somewhat confusing but this makes a lot of sense.

[@jt-moneyHockey]

here's my answer! can't wait to watch

[@Badnercalabrese]

Thanks im going to try this as a 5'9 beer leaguer. For some reason im feeling deja vu I think you had covered this topic previously? Im finding myself cutting angles very aggressively but constantly getting burned on back door plays.

[@jordanlangness7113]

Have Brandon Baker develop a speed evaluation drill and use the goalies speed score and height to develop an equation that provides proper depth for each player. As the goalie develops and grows they can re-evaluate based on this equation.

[@jamiephillips30]

I like that idea. The issue he may run into (or we as coaches ) is there are other variables at play. Things like limb length and flexibility come to mind first. But it may work as some sort of guild line rather than a rule of law. However, I don’t know if an equation will be better than just allowing a goalie to play where they are most confident and successful. Will be fun to try though!

[@mk34maf29js63]

I would say it’s also situational. Goalies need to be the smartest players on the ice when it comes to reading plays and being aware of where players are. The best goalies know If there is no pass option you challenge a little bit more. If there’s a back door option or sustained time in your end and players are working to set up a play you should be further back. Great video tho love your scientific breakdown

[@uegoaltending]

Have no issue with the idea. As with all goaltending, and what makes it so fascinating as a problem, is there is "no free lunch" and everything has price. Adding some of my thoughts: 1. Beware of the effect of OUTLINE PROBLEM. Even when looking at goalie's net coverage from the eyes of the puck, at certain depths, there are areas (the outline) of the goalie, where the goalie can be hit with a puck and the puck will glance off the body and still enter the net. Playing deep makes the effect large (OUTLINE is THICKER) and further out, the OUTLINE diminishes until it is essentially hairline. The formula postulated here does not account for this. And this effect is HUGE but not talked about often. 2. Gear outside the post is wasted coverage, as Jamie says. I would except the helmet, as I don't encourage goalies to rely on the helmet for net coverage, for safety. 3. ASD - Angle Squareness Depth. That is chain of priority for sure. As I often say, Depth is the cream in the coffee. Makes a great beverage even a bit better. 4. Not mentioned in the video, but maybe a thought to investigate, "Is there an optimal position for a goalie upon shot release?" Or S.O.P. and does SOP vary depending on factors like goalie size, reaction speed of individual, and athleticism or is it universal? 5. Does having SOP equate to better rebound control? If "puck stopping is optimized" by SOP, is rebound control also maximized or is there other positions required that would improve rebound control that is not SOP?

[@jimmyhumphrey9820]

Does this analysis hold up though when you drop into the butterfly? If you are standing up I agree you are covering less net as parts of your body are outside the posts. But if you drop into a butterfly the amount of net you cover should be more, allowing for more aggressive depth.

[@jamiephillips30]

Yes, the math is the same. But hopefully you are reacting to the puck and not dropping and hoping to get hit. That’s a recipe for failure regardless of depth

[@brandonbarker1238]

So i did the math by getting the average chest size of an adult male and added in the area of two leg pads. To simplify the math, I made the assumption that the goalie is a perfect matching square to that of the net mouth at the sum of the areas of chest and leg pads, it's annoyingly hard to find the average persons "square footage" but ultimately it doesn't really matter for the math. Basically, I'm saying that the math was done under the assumption that the goalie is covering the perfect amount of net at each "step" distance from the net mouth. I hope that helps, and I'd be happy to provide any other answers to any of the questions pertaining to the math you have.

[@nemtall]

Would you say as well on break aways ? What is good depth on a break ?

[@jamiephillips30]

Depends because the player is getting closer. To simplify I would say “reasonable depth (top of the crease) matched proportionally to the players speed”

[@justsomegoalie]

Will try and report back

[@TychoYT]

Just for context: given that some goalies are absolutely huge these days, is 6' classified as bigger or smaller now?

[@jamiephillips30]

Depends on the age. For jr and higher I consider 6 feet small. 6’2 - 6’3 is average

[@griffinwangen8776]

I saw a different video initially and it did create a visceral reaction to which I commented. I still disagree although it makes more sense now. I’d still rather teach a short goalie the game rather than get the short term returns on an improper way to play imo.

[@jamiephillips30]

That’s the beauty of sport. You can do whatever you want. It may or may not work

[@BryanMarble]

Do you think this applies equally to young goalies (

[@jamiephillips30]

This is a good questions. In North America we haven’t adopted a middle size net. With young goalies that use a full size net, honestly very little matters (other than developing the fundamentals) because the net is just so much larger than them. As players start to shoot hard (around u11-12 as you stated) the players are at such an advantage that regardless of depth, most shots outside their body are going to beat them. However, I think it’s important for all goalies, regardless of age and size to understand depth management

[@No_Fear_33]

Most goals come from straight shots past the goalies body and limbs. Most coaches wont put up with straight up shots and in. Its pretty black and white, sit in the paint and its your funeral. Terrible, terrible take in this vid.

[@jamiephillips30]

Most goals (at elite levels) actually come off rebounds or off of a pass and shoot. With children there are more shots goals due to a handful of variables. Main one being, they are children and haven’t learned all the requisite skills.