Socialist Tells Ben Shapiro: Workers Should Own the Means of Production

[@jasonfritz838]

I've seen this before, but damn, that is a socialist smackdown.

[@juliusebola9389]

@MarsHolst20 Why? You can't even tell what the kid is arguing because the video is edited.

[@sinisterwakawakablack2092]

He checked into a the smackdown hotel..on know your role blvd

[@davidwhitten3596]

@@juliusebola9389 ... If the kid and his worker buddies want to start their own business, no one will stop them. They can just get their own capital and do everything themselves... nothing to it.

[@ryry9038]

@@juliusebola9389 Do you just post the same comment over and over again? I can send you the link to the full video if you like. He still gets destroyed. You must be a socialist.

[@LDwestwood1986]

@@juliusebola9389 Poor brain dead socialist moron. You realise all communism does is try to trick the low IQ into thinking it's giving to the people when it's the state stripping everything from the people.

[@andrespueblos]

"It's extremely easy to be generous with money that's not yours"

[@ramiibee1101]

Agreed, this is true in real life,

[@trenttrip6205]

Would u have said this Jesus? Lol

[@capitanawesome44]

John Smalling there are Dems and there are socialist... please don’t confuse the two. There is SOME overlap and some really have no idea which they fit into. Because people work hard to blur the lines. Kids in college have no jobs or hate their jobs so they want more. It’s understandable. But you build up for it and not many have the mentality to do it.

[@keithlubin5782]

@@capitanawesome44 it's almost impossible to distinguish between the two, when many Democrat politicians are called democratic socialist and many of the moderate politicians policies now mirror the socialist. The Democrat goal is to raise taxes to give to those who didn't earn it...i.e. socialism.

[@georgeluminari2511]

That's socialism in one sentence.

[@finalbossd]

“If socialists understood economics, they would not be socialists.” -Hayek

[@ChildOfTheWilderness]

It's also said if you put 10 economists in a room & asked them to solve an economic issue you'd get 10 different answers. Economics is a broad subject, that's why you get people like Keynes & you get people like Hayek.

[@masters.1000]

@@ChildOfTheWilderness No. Keynesianism is just plain wrong. Monetarism and the Austrian school doesn't have all the answers, but they play according to the reality. The Keynesians are just tools for the the State, the political corporation.

[@masters.1000]

@@Anonymous-wp7lm A lot of things. The nature of the inflation, the interest rate and credit for instance. When they try to apply partial equilibrium theory to solve issues concerning general equilibrium theory (they just can't understand it). Everything they do is set to be under the government's control. No wonder why most of the universities teach this.

[@finalbossd]

Richie 1138 This may be true that there are many solutions to the same subject, but not all disciplines are created equal in their accuracy. The proponents of “modern monetary theory” are proposing printing money to fix debt as a problem, which is something that has been empirically show to cause hyperinflation.

[@masters.1000]

@@finalbossd Or global credit crisis. They always try to manipulate reality for political purposes.

[@cyfahey]

I ran my own business once. You never stop thinking about the management systems. The shop was on my mind 24/7. I went bankrupt in the end. More then happy these days to show up. Do my hours and collect my cheque. You can have your profits for the risk. More power too you. I sleep so much better these days

[@alexderpyracc4053]

If you went bankrupt how aren't you homeless then? I thought the risk of going bankrupt ≈ going in debt so meaning you can't pay it back but apparently going bankrupt isn't that bad as losing your job and going in debt because when a worker goes in debt they will be homeless when a company goes bankrupt they get baled out by rich family or investors to start a new company

[@cyfahey]

@@alexderpyracc4053 personal bankruptcy, atleast in my country. Just means all your debts are wiped, and you can't get chased for money. (It sucks for your creditors obviously) And a bunch of conditions are placed on you. You cant get loans or credit cards. Your credit rating is black marked. You can't own cars above a certain value and if your income goes above a base level. The extra will be taken to pay back what you owed. It doesn't mean you can't get a job and rent somewhere to live. (I lived with my mum for the first year after declaring). So as a worker, if you lose your job and go into debt. Personal bankruptcy is an option (atleast in 🇦🇺) I guess it was designed to stop homelessness. What you refer to with companies is liquidation. And yeah, rich people and big business look after their own. Half the the time the company pops up next week with a new name. Its a pretty flawed system on that scale

[@alexderpyracc4053]

@@cyfahey what 🥺 nahhhhhh so basically there is zero risk to CEOs wow this makes me even more Marxist

[@chrisdawson1776]

@@alexderpyracc4053We need NatSoc

[@DGSnowolf]

so..... people wanting to start business not going homeless when their business fails is bad and needs to change? Fuck off, go be a Marxist somewhere on the street then.@@alexderpyracc4053

[@transformer3187]

"You can have all the machinery, but without me..." Automation has entered the chat

[@gabbar51ngh]

Carl Menger Destroyed labour theory of value. Only thing I see wrong here is both over valuing labour in the argument.

Can't wait till everything is automated so this labor thinking gets completely destroyed, that's when humanity will be free. UBI and new jobs will transcend us

[@davidl.8722]

isn’t automation the point where socialism is just the last thing working

[@mortimerbrewster3671]

@ Actually, Star Trek is great at showing that the equality utopia will NEVER exist. Just look at the structure on the ships. There is a captain down to whatever is the lowest position. There are "credits" instead of cash but it is still the means of payment. Sure there are replicators so no one goes hungry but often it's shown how people prefer real food and drink which is created through production of humans and "credits" would be paid for that production. The very foundation of Roddenberry's vision was flawed when he created it with a hierarchy. No one would be the low man on the totem pole without some means of reward and that is capitalism at it's core.

[@jeromyperez5532]

​@@mortimerbrewster3671 100%. I mean, even in TOS, the post-scarcity is more of a propaganda term than anything else. In the episode where Kirk is trying to find out if an actor is actually the tyrant Kodos, one of the impetus' for Kodos' actions is that there was rampant starvation. Replicators aren't magic, they require something to be put in. Sure, ideally, the chance of running out is so remote that it at times feels like a post-scarcity world. But such a thing violates the laws of what is possible. Picard's family *owns* a vineyard and a country cottage. They employ hands to help with the labor. There's federation trade and as much as Picard tries to sell the idea that there's no 'money' in First Contact, everything in-universe tells us that again this is simply federation propaganda. Gene Roddenberry made his own Kool-aid to drink.

[@josephbrady8836]

It's actually frightening how fast he processes information and responses.

[@tShuka_]

I would lose an argument even before I say 1 word

[@waynewintermute3869]

I agree! Incredibly intelligent! I wish he would run for the presidency some time! I believe he would serve this country well!

[@sherkislove3135]

He cherry picks

[@Matt_H_]

@@sherkislove3135 cherry picks what exactly?

[@waynewintermute3869]

@@sherkislove3135 I guess he cherry picks everything then because I don't see him back down or get defeated in any topic! Lol

[@rayc.8555]

I would bet the farm that this kid has never had a job in his life.

[@juliusebola9389]

You think Ben Shapiro has ever actually worked a day in his life?

[@audio-video-stereo]

Either that or hasn’t paid a bill in his life.

[@saltoftheearth6656]

Julius Ebola If you don’t value his work, then don’t support it

[@irishtyrant4532]

@@juliusebola9389 I'm sorry anyone that analyzes politricks and formulates a logical solution in fractions of a second did more work than you or I could hope to accomplish in a decade.

[@GingeRenee]

Julius Ebola he works very hard studying and researching these topics that faces our country and spends time away from his family speaking around the world, all while facing the angry left who harass him in public, send him and his family death threats and yet he still continues in his work. He works very hard. Are you trying to say because his work is more educational then labor that isn’t equal to work?

[@Djdbot24]

Outof all the people Ben has destroyed this has to be one of the best.

[@ramtins9258]

It was savage ngl lol. ripped into pieces.

[@jinahkim9831]

I think he destroyed the transgender/abortion girl harder

[@ViktorScberg]

@@jinahkim9831 which one? The boyscout one?

[@red1monster_]

Not really. I think the part where it seems he "destroyed" him is at the end, but he didn't even let the guy answer (or at least he didn't show his answer)

[@jinahkim9831]

@@red1monster_ I haven’t seen the video for a month so I can’t really remember, do you support the guy in the left though? (I’m not accusing you of anything just curious)

[@zaidhasan4881]

Basically what he is asking is why can’t he get free money for doing the bare minimum

[@fyrchmyrddin1937]

Like most university students. It's sad that people like Shapiro are so scarce in "higher education", because the result is the Maoist overgrown children on parade in Seattle & Portland.

[@mastyer0fReality]

@@Tom-cj1ge so true they think that because they graduated they deserve a few million dollars, when in fact they havnt begun working, let alone working hard.

[@galenmarek8287]

TLDR- Make these kids work for their shit when they’re teenagers. Which is why I’ve always thought teenagers should be required to have a job through high school. If anything else, just to pay for their own insurance, and if anything leftover, spending money instead of relying on mommy and daddy. Even if families are well to do and can afford to buy them a brand new whatever car they want, gas, and insurance, they should have to learn to work for what they have and do. Also, buying kids a brand new freaking car for their first one is usually a mistake. Every teenager deserves to have a piece of crap or average “beater” for their first ride, preferably something that requires daily upkeep or attention (add a quart of oil a week, or gotta pump 1 or 2 tires up everyday.) Giving these shitheads everything without making them work for it teaches them nothing, they appreciate nothing, and they end up like this dumb dick on the video touting for communism. Besides all of that shit, getting into college with that point of view just basically indoctrinates them because they have no other perspective.

[@hanswurst2497]

@@Tom-cj1ge I know so many hard working people. Working up to 16 hours a day for a shitty salary, while their bosses live in abundance. But then there are people like Shapiro that want to tell me it would be their own fault and that they would be lazy.

[@thomasjuniardi3559]

@@hanswurst2497 the different between workers and their bosses is OPPORTUNITY, Jeff Bezos are still flipping burgers at McDonald's rite now if he doesn't receive $ 300 thousands "investment" from his parents for Amazon. That is Opportunity, get it ? 😁

[@TheOldMan1911]

Workers should own a company that they haven't invested in. This is just beyond stupid.

[@nicoletaylor2880]

That parts scared me for a bit

[@DL-idk]

I've never been able to understand the sociolists. They seem to assume that factories and machines pop out of nowhere and the owners just happen to come across them and pick them up free.

[@thesagaofblitz]

Mark Cuban had all his employees invested in his company and when he sold his first company for however many billion dollars all the employees that invested in it became millionaires and the ones that didn't well they didn't have any thing to risk so they didn't have anything to gain

[@TheOldMan1911]

@@Anonymous-wp7lm If I open a business with the purpose of being the only sole proprieoship which is my goal im not going to let others run my business that are inadequate to run the business. Now if its a partnership with a common goal and knowledge of the business then that would be different. I'm not going to let some Joe or a Karen become a partner just because I am force to share the ownership of my company that is silly thinking. This is America we don't share a business or land.

[@rahnsingh7693]

They absolutely have invested in it. The issue is whether or not their wages are at a level that represents fair compensation. Shapiro as much as said, that labor equals money, that money was a representation of labor, so the only issue of contention is how much compensation the laborer receives. Labor is seen as a product like any other... it just happens to be valued as low as one can get away with. If you buy a loaf of bread from a store, they maybe pay 30 cent (the distributer paid even less, wholesale) then turn and charge you a dollar... where does the value of the remaining 70 cent come from (the idea that it goes to pay wages, rent, and maitainence cost... but how much of it really goes there? If you sell so much product, but only have so many employees and expenses, what happens to all the rest of it?) Now let's imagine this starts out fair, you pay 30%, your expenses total 30 to 50%, and your profit is 20% or more. But eventually, you realize that you can increase your profit, by paying less for the initial product (maybe you think, if you reinvest that money into getting more product, more space, more employees, you make more money... makes since. But instead you pocket it). Then you figure you can make more product by reducing your labor cost (no problem, fire people and make others work more like slaves... but don't compensate them for demanding they work harder, people are a commodity, there are plenty more where they came from... in fact, how can you gradually reduce the expectation of fair compensation? Easy, as the business grows, ensure that the status of its hard workers does not increase anywhere near the same rate... the hell with mutual growth and rewarding effort). No, labor is not being paid fair compensation, it is paid as little as possible (for every dollar in revenue produced by labor. They will probably recieve less than 20%, so conceivably, either it is being stolen from them, or they are in fact investing 80% in exchange for what... having a job at all, because they are not only replaceable but disposable). Be serious.

[@oskaveli662]

I always hate when titles say "Shapiro DESTROYS whomever" But in this case...Shapiro absolutely ANNIHILATED this kid.

[@benkylo8015]

Yeah, a kid. He won't debate anybody on his level though, will he?

[@totenblume7517]

@KHAN SPENCER And.... Wait for it... He was also a Conservative.

[@OneRichMofo]

Capital means money in the financial sense. In economics it means machinery, more or less. It was a little hic hup in Ben's arguement but other than that, pretty good.

[@OneRichMofo]

@BullseyeBullsclaw I watched it. Turns out Mr. Khan was right.

[@OneRichMofo]

@@totenblume7517 yeah. Honestly right wing people debate better. Plus he was British. So hardly a surprise really.

[@raybonecrusher4516]

Years ago I had a employee who came to me and asked for a pay raise after working for me a short period of time. I told him I pay people by there productive accomplishment's. He informed me he felt he was worth more then he was getting paid. I sat down with him and explained the cost of doing business. Overhead was equipment, taxes my time to bid and collect and training new employees. My pay came after all bills were paid including his weekly pay check. I went over the job he was working on and the costs to complete it counting overhead and his pay as well as the insurance and the vehicle he drove back and forth to the job and home again. He was surprised to see that my profit was not as much as he figured, he did pick up the pace and when he did he received a pay raise.

[@beatles123]

So in other words, you put profit first. Sounds about right.

[@raybonecrusher4516]

@@beatles123 There were weeks that I could not pay myself because the income was lower than outlay. People that worked for me didn't miss a payday. At the end of the year after balancing the books I would know what the profit was. I was in business to make money not lose it. I paid more than the average wage for the area. In the early 80s the economy took a downturn and I folded the company and went to work for a company in Texas. It took almost ten years to climb out of the financial hole. Small business is not a way to get rich, it is only a way to make a living and your pay is only the amount you're willing to work for. It is a 24/7 obligation to keep the doors open. The profit is what you end up with when you fold your company, sometimes it's a empty well.

[@jackylam4341]

@@beatles123 If you don’t put profit first, then how can you do business? If an employee has achieved high performance then he will be rewarded for earning the company more money in the end.

[@Zynirel]

@@beatles123 why you making that sound like a bad things?

[@aabc]

@@beatles123 isnt that the goal? wouldnt i put profit first?? because if i dont i am at greater risk of loosing the investors and thus going bankrupt, while the employee finds another job, me as a buisnessman suffers bankruptcy!!

[@maltlickey]

A socialist walks into a bar and yells “Hey everyone, drinks on me!! Who’s paying?!”

[@ViktorScberg]

"VOLUNTARY" !! Socialist asshat rofl !! KAG2020

[@DualDesertEagle]

This comment made my day!

[@christopherfiorentino6552]

Perfect

[@obviouslykaleb7998]

Al Bo I thought it wasn’t socialism if the companies are privately owned? You try so desperately to assign a label to others you sacrifice all semblance of integrity and intelligence, just to get some internet goodboypoints.

[@obviouslykaleb7998]

Al Bo What the hell is socialism to you?

[@elmoreglidingclub3030]

“I read three pages of Marx, talked to agreeable friends and we decided we’re right and incredibly smart, so now I’m gonna change your world...”

[@S_______D]

I laughed so hard at this! XD

[@VergilJones23]

I'm so happy I found this comment because I was about to post the same thing haha

[@howielowis458]

@Olli Koskiniemi the mere fact that you can say: "i was wrong" is a sign of intelligence in my eyes. You will be wrong again in the future, whether it is due to misinformation, emotional denial or anything else. But have the ability to reflect and recognize your errors and correct them. Intelligence is not being right all the time, it's being able to recognize and accept when you are wrong and doing something about it.

[@isaiahmarquez9717]

I was once a full fledged, revolution believing Liberal. I was raised that way. I believed that Conservatives should be censored. Silenced. Then everything would be alright. I actually believed that shit. This is what we are up against. They’re out to win at all costs because they believe they are RIGHT. The ends justify the means. Believe it.

[@greglyons2526]

Sounds like Jordan Peterson to me

[@ThePorschefan]

"I want all the assets but none of the liabilities of owning a business"

[@edmangomez7936]

They just literally begging money

[@kasomoru6]

You and me both buddy.

[@saxonderohan9723]

If the workers own the means of production, then they assume the same liabilities of ownership, and also the same profits. Additionally, if a business is set up as an LLC or an S Corp., the owner(s) of the business do not take on any personal liability, as the business is treated as a separate entity. If someone sues the business, the owners are not personally liable, and their personal property is protected. If the business declares bankruptcy, then the owner’s credit is not personally affected, only the business’s credit would be impacted. This is why Ben Shapiro only debates college students who don’t know enough to respond to his retorts. Because fundamentally what he says is flawed, and he goes off of baseless assumptions.

[@saxonderohan9723]

@@edmangomez7936 They are not _begging for money._ They are demanding fair compensation for their labor. If you helped to build a company, wouldn’t you want an ownership stake in that company?

[@ThePorschefan]

@@saxonderohan9723 You're wrong. Yes, you can set up an entity separate from yourself, but if the business goes bankrupt the first in line for the liquidation of assets are creditors, pension liabilities, preferred stock owners and at last if there's anything left, the shareholders. That's what Ben means The shareholders aka the owner(s) are the ones taking the risks, the one who contributed capital & got clients to get the business going from scratch, what the student is asking is to skip all the risks & headaches of starting a company and just demand for risk-free money lol But there's a simple solution: Either start your own company, buy shares in a publicly-traded company or buy an equity stake into a private business

[@janechiu370]

People as individuals or a group of “workers” need to start a company by themselves and will then understand what Ben is talking about.

[@adamplace9449]

They have. They’re called cooperatively owned businesses.

[@ChiekoGamers]

and pay slave wages to their employees

[@jonathandevereaux298]

​@@adamplace9449a cooperatively owned business is one where all involved invest equally as well so its not the same.

[@OmegaRedFan]

​@@adamplace9449no they have not. All you do is complain about rich people.

[@adamplace9449]

@@OmegaRedFan you know literally nothing about me, but you assume that all I do is whinge about rich people. You don’t even know my SES, I could be rich af and just support workers co-ops. My friend you need to do more perceiving and less projecting.

[@ThuTroothHurtz]

When people like this walk in for an interview, do NOT hire them.

[@sydneytilden2341]

I think I should get the means of production Cool, well we will contact you if there isn’t anyone worse get out of my office and have a wonderful day.

[@javierrivera9824]

Yes please

[@crose7412]

@Wha Tajoke Who should one hire instead?

[@MrHalfanEar]

They don’t want a job. They abuse welfare and government assist.

[@SprayEndPray]

@Nig Nag Narrator- "They won't."

[@tubestick00]

Guys never spent a minute of his life working in a factory.

[@jesussavessinners9980]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/inS2hn5_nc-YrNE

[@jesussavessinners9980]

Tim Jones What do you mean?

[@shuacliff_7029]

Nor did Marx

[@doleo_metal]

@TheVindicator85 exactly

[@kyukyu9016]

@tubestick00 oof.. you just exposed him thats so savage!!

[@nickriley3242]

Ben gets that look in his eyes when he is ripping a political opponent to shreds

[@walkonstilts1]

Freeze frame @3:01 @3:02

[@SonnyGTA]

Nicholas Haussler right! Because he knows the idiots asking the questions think they are right and come off as smart asses intent on proving Ben wrong....but he knows (look in his eye) that he is about to decimate them.

[@jakeerbst4073]

I think he just gets frustrated when people can’t understand the absolute most basic thing about reality and he starts off very cordial but when they don’t get it and keep pushing their distorted view (I mean come on, this kid was DUMB) he gets impassioned and heated.

[@brainstorm4207]

i swear it's Ben's heroin like fix, he gets a rush off of destroying leftists and he is damn good at it because.....well.......he is right!

[@adtatatumtemporis7111]

No this is just Ritalin, Concerta or its bigger brother cocaine

[@stephanie1671]

I work for a small company that the owner ran solo for many years before bringing on 1, then 3, than 5, then 6, then 8, employees. He risked a lot to be where he is now, and can spend the return on his risk any way he deems fit.

[@therealkingfrances3242]

That guy will be twiddling his thumbs for a very long time.

[@JGreen-le8xx]

Damn right.. I won't hire that idiot...And I imagine any decent employer after seeing this won't either.

[@WestCoastAce27]

Doubt it. Betting Daddy has big cash. While he’s in that lectured getting destroyed by Ben, there are kids at their jobs working their way they school.

[@jeddy_bravo]

Ay Ive seen you on DogumentaryTV!

[@therealkingfrances3242]

Jed Kirk Awesome thank you!!!🙏🏼🐺🇺🇸

[@thku4grace]

You're assuming he doesn't have a spectacularly different replay in his head about the truck that just ran him over.

[@robbiemorgz]

Laying in bed night before: ‘Yeah I’m gonna do the pencil factory question’

[@henkn6319]

Good idea, he probably doesn’t know how to respond to that question.

[@Stampistuta]

Yeah, he was thinking “I know how I’ll really get this guy”. 😂

[@plinyelder8156]

*Lying in bed

[@wombito5098]

Little did he know he was gonna get demolished

[@chandlercanepa4141]

Lmao

[@CalabrianVince]

He’s 100% right about risks. The start up I worked at completely tanked. Those at the top are now struggling to reconcile with investors while I’m on my way to a new job!

[@shansen008]

Exactly, this is what the little commies dont get. Ive never owned my own business per se, but ive been self employed. Ive also worked in a family business before. These little commies have likely never done either, and theyre being taught by academics whove never had a real job either, who instead were busy smoking dope in hippy drum circles trying to daydream about ways to get back at "the man" (their parents) for the sickeningly easy life theyve had.

[@gingermlg]

It's almost like you as a worker have all the power to leave and find a new job at anytime with no downsides at all to you... Oh wait, that's the whole point of capitalism.

[@jerrywhidby.]

Hell the workers will even get unemployment. Which their job had to pay into.

[@coldwinter5428]

Yep, there was a housing development near my parents home that made luxury homes. They did real well for several years and then the housing market went tits up. They went Bankrupt shortly thereafter. Everybody who worked for them lost their job but they could move on and find other jobs. Those owners lost tons of money and depending on how they set up their business who knows if investors went after their personal belongings to recover some of the debt. There's a good reason the pay structure is what it is. It's called a risk for a reason. If your risk doesn't pan out it's going to hurt a hell of a lot more then just getting a pink slip.

[@ankmamma688]

Jonathan Jacobs there’s no risk in leaving your job???

[@saxahainerz4148]

I don't understand why people can't see this as common sense.

[@zhouhaozhuang548]

Becouse of greed and stupidity I think？

[@highdemandinformation4421]

3 points I want to mention here 1 U said capital is other term for money and the money comes from trading labour or product of labour, but this labour is not labour of capitalist but labour of the crores of labours for whom socialist fight 2. u said thousands of labour are voluntarily available for work,but there is no alternative as there is major imbalance of power bw u and them 3.the third point u mention that profits are due to risk factor ,but the proportion of profits capitalists take is absurd So be logical shapiro

[@AJxxxxxxxx]

For those of you that are ignorant….. Capitalism= elite control Communism= government control Socialism= worker control Whenever you hear redistribution of wealth they are talking about communism and NOT socialism, Socialism has nothing to do with redistribution of wealth or government control, it’s about worker ownership and workers control and it eliminates the rich elites from a society

[@DaveM86]

@@AJxxxxxxxxit eliminates most people from society, via starvation. You’re redefining socialism and imagining it as a utopian system is childish.

[@AJxxxxxxxx]

@@DaveM86 I’m not redefining it, that’s what socialism is, and no socialism doesn’t eliminate anyone from society by starvation, that’s a very childish understanding of socialism, your literally mixing communism and socialism together like most capitalist do

[@Shorts4yal]

This kid will hate himself for this argument when he finally grows up.

[@mikewilliams6025]

Hopefully. Although most socialists have a tendency never to do that.

[@meanmachine2003]

@@mikewilliams6025 i agree, socialists are stubborn as fuck

[@jaapjonkercom]

It was a good lesson for him. Sometimes you need to get burnt. He has the balls to start a debate with Shapiro, many won’t even try.

[@jyetaylor6898]

Nah socialists are Peter Pan they never grow up

[@jesussavessinners9980]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/inS2hn5_nc-YrNE

[@devincognito8932]

It's sad to see that this is what colleges produce.

[@WestCoastAce27]

Agree. Econ101 covers this. Or did back in the day. His brain would explode if he got to the part where my professor explained the profit per pencil.

[@dinkmartini3236]

The purpose of university today isn't education. They are here to create good Marxists.

[@holytrashify]

Ben went to college too...just saying....

[@devincognito8932]

@@holytrashify True, I should say that this is what the humanities produce.

[@Brian.primal]

I'm in college right now and unfortunately, there are so many teachers who subtly (or sometimes blatantly) push their views on their students. They feed these views with no counterpoints then gullible, clueless college students just gobble it all up.

[@maximuslopez9355]

Company : *makes profit* Socialist : this is OUR money Also Company : *goes bankrupt and has to pay debt* Socialist : this is *NOT* OUR debt

[@maximuslopez9355]

@@Tommy-gq5ik company owner : *pays salary* Stupid Socialist : since you're a billionaire who owns the company....we are entitled to your entire net worth

[@PugilistCactus]

Make sure you identify what kind of socialist. Marxism is the least beneficial version. Free health care is honestly all we really need. Everyone should have access to medical help at the very least. Would lift a lot of pressure from impoverished families as health is not something you take for granted. Free money however is a reckless idea.

[@maximuslopez9355]

@@PugilistCactus bro if healthcare is free then how are doctors gonna pay their bills..... healthcare is not cheap..... government can't subsidise everything for everyone

[@maximuslopez9355]

@@Tommy-gq5ik if everyone in the world gave that excuse...ain't nobody gonna accomplish anything....We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand....stop expecting handouts and start working for something better for yourself

[@maximuslopez9355]

@@Tommy-gq5ik good luck getting anything out of it

[@DiBaozi]

I doubt this kid would even put his money towards getting toilet paper for the factory.

[@alexandros3794]

Ok?

[@Ryan_Martin]

No 🧢

[@jer3887]

bwahahaha!

[@D.Rothchild]

Omg lmfaoh!!!!!!!!

[@ObamaSexGaming2007]

What kind of roast is this lmao hahahahahah

[@TyyylerDurden]

And his prefrontal cortex is used as an eraser

[@TheLemonbrown]

"Workers of the world unite" * Has never worked a day in his life

[@JackHaveman52]

@Henry Alan Then we have a society where AI, or robots, are making products to sell to a populace that has no money because they lost their jobs to AI robots. It would seem rather pointless to make the product in the first place, wouldn't it. Maybe, we'll have a transformed society just like we did at times in the past. The industrial revolution or the growth of agrarian economies to name major societal transformations.

[@unboxedcharacter]

@Henry Alan There's a Twilight Zone episode on this about 60 years back 😨😨😨

[@bruceleroyalty]

Neither has Ben Shapiro

[@bruceleroyalty]

Daniel Rodriguez in bens mindset we should’ve never put regulations on business work molds. He negates the idea of monopoly laws and the fundamental proof that business will never do the right thing

[@s.e.garcia3635]

richard bruce the government can enact justice by separating a monopoly free market is always better

[@ctastrophe]

“Without labor, the machines are meaningless” Fine, without the machinery your labor is valueless. Can’t get a job in a factory if there is no factory

[@tacrossover]

Shapiro didn't even mention automation and A.I. but looks like he didn't have to. The last argument wrecked the student.

[@yu_cp8978]

@@tacrossover good point

[@jonwcs5842]

Automation. Ford produces a truck every 53 seconds using less & less human labor as each year passes....

[@SubscribersWithoutAnySubscribe]

@francesco lops Who said there is no labor under capitalism? No one said any of that because this is a hypothetical example to illustrate the codependency of labor and capital, not a factual statement about what exists in the world.

[@jonwcs5842]

@francesco lops - Factory? Lots of them in Cuba im sure?

[@rxjxt]

I knew this in 11th grade that whoever carries the most risk gets the bigger part of the profit.

[@KenH60109]

You say that as if the risk of the workers isn’t so much dramatically higher that they’d starve and die if their labor did not make them enough or any money. The capitalist can occasionally fall down to the level of the poor, but his gain is much more likely to be high.

[@juicetin6811]

@@KenH60109The worker doesn’t incur any debt if the company fails tho. The worker can find a new job. The owner of the company can’t just “get another job” at that point. They take ALL of the debt if the company fails. So they take most of the risk.

[@dsgio7254]

@@juicetin6811 LLC . There is a limited risk ,,, for small owners. But for big corp ? They are too big to fail ....The gov will save them.

[@user-zu5do6ri6r]

The business owner has little risk. He can always file bankruptcy for that specific business entity. Most of the time filing bankruptcy on a business doesn't even effect the owners personal assets. The owner will get to keep his personal property, such as land and vehicles. We also have a social safety net set up, so it's not like the owners family would even starve or suffer.

[@dsgio7254]

@@user-zu5do6ri6r Indeed.

[@bri5490]

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money” Margaret Thatcher

[@flacofausto8084]

Sounds like capitalism for me

[@bri5490]

Flaco Fausto Socialism is known for high taxation, so basically they run out of taxpayers money. They borrow capital excessively without any economic adroitness to economise. This in turn causes austerity and the same people they wish to serve, suffer. Communism, marxism and socialism are all failed philosophical doctrines. Obviously academia continue to indoctrinate students with their socialist warped narrative, without encouraging critical thinking. Socialist lecturers literally persecute individual and independent thinkers by peer bullying.

[@lomein222]

Random User you can’t have workers without a business you can’t have a prospering business without an exchange of means of production so what your implying is there would be free workers but their essentially would be no businesses under socialism therefore there would be no work or workers

[@bri5490]

Random User Likewise, collectivism is unsustainable in the long run because it is a flawed theory. Socialism does not work because it is not consistent with fundamental principles of human behavior. ... By failing to emphasize incentives, socialism is a theory inconsistent with human nature and is therefore doomed to fail. A strong, almost religious faith in centralised government, reliance on force (how else would one redistribute wealth against the wishes of the owners of that wealth?), obssession with wealth redistribution and not wealth creation, a misguided focus on goals and not on systems (how will you attain a goal, if you do not have a good system?) and the fallacious belief that money is real. The last point needs further explanation. This leads us to another major moral flaw which is actually the core of socialism- materialism. YES, materialism! When socialists autistically screech they seek “Equality”, they do not mean equality before law, or even equal rights; they mean economic equality, a goal which apart from being grossly impractical, is also materialistic to a fault. Heck, one of Karl Marx’s most famous theory about history is called “Historical Materialism” and his entire philosophy is centered on seizing, through violent means, the means of production. No wonder socialism was deemed unholy and ungodly! “If socialists understood economics, they would not be socialists” - Friedrich Hayek.

[@bri5490]

Random User Socialism is a hat which was tried by the different sized heads ultimately resulted in losing its original shape. It's inception dates back to French Revolution, though in true sense it never came into force because society wasn't known to such kind of radical ideas in government. Keeping pace with the time socialism adapted itself to the situation and with the advent of industrial revolution and demand for workers right and life of dignity, socialism started getting familiar with common masses. However, biggest thrust came after the coming of MARXISM by Karl Marx, Marxism is special variant of socialism which never came into being in real sense because it was too idealistic to create a classless society and no one was able to implement it in a way Marx wanted. Or even other side could be that Marxism isn't tried system in true sense. USSR was synonym of communist regime and undisputed leader of communist world. Lenin with his own variant brought revolution in Russia but he didn't followed Marx ideology after coming into power and rather became the dictatorship of communist party. With Stalin, Brezhnev, and Khrushchev its ideology varied but in the end it failed. With the collapse of USSR due to the cumulative effects of high fiscal debt, aggressive policies in Cold War, non- competence among industries. Overall it started getting resentment with stagflation in economy, people were amazed to see rise of capitalist world. Hence, communism was rejected by the people. Third world countries were in love with the concept of socialism because it gave them sigh from colonial powers which were capitalists in nature. Therefore, it was natural choice for them to opt for socialism. However, it didn't go well in the long term as it was made to change with structural adjustment program in economy. Even today be it in China which is no real sense socialist but purely capitalist in true sense since reforms initiated in late 70s. In case of North Korea which at present stand as pariah state and on the verge of failure because in no sense there is socialism but hereditary monarchy. India adopted for democratic socialism an another variant of socialism but it faced challenges in economy and changed its orientation with economic reforms of 1991. Be it Marxism, Soviet Communism, Guild socialism or Fabian socialism these ideas appealed to people but just out of anger against existing form of government. Even socialism wherever applied it wasn't able to bring those changes for which at first place it was thought. However, we should see the example of Botswana in Africa which has good repo in education and health when its neighbors are still suffering from acute poverty and unemployment. Therefore, socialism in itself is not a failed concept but it is made to fail.

[@MrRolyat98]

Judging by the crowd response, I’m going to guess that Shapiro wasn’t having this talk at UC Berkeley.

[@nt3095]

MrRolyat98 Lmaooo as someone who just got into Berkeley as a transfer student, I'm definitely not looking forward to interacting with the student body. However, the Haas School of Business at Berkeley was simply to good for me to turn down. Hopefully the business students have a more diverse mindset and are open to discussion.

[@derp8575]

@@nt3095 Unfortunately Marxism infects every part of academia. You'll find less of them in business, finance and STEM, but there will still be a sizable group.

[@MrRolyat98]

N T best of luck to you. You must be pretty sharp if you got in.

[@lburrsshinyhunts2253]

N T just write papers pretending to be liberal as well or they may fail you. Professors tend to do that

[@miso-ge1gz]

@@derp8575 anything other than business and finance, law or STEM is garbage made to absorb money from idiots like the guy in the video

[@02337755]

One of the flaws in his analogy is "The Company gives me a wage" No kid you agreed to that wage. You said this is what my time is worth.

[@ReconMarine702]

02337755 Though he and the company “agreed” on that, the companies continue to slash benefits and refuse to raise wages while inflation continues to rise creating a high cost of living.

[@kuyt20]

@@ReconMarine702 - You're projecting.

[@bradfletcher1991]

Oh no, what to do!!!!! How about this idea you ignorant snowflake...negotiate a new contract/wage/benefit package or maybe, just maybe, GET A NEW JOB! Fucking idiot it’s a free country to seek out different employment. Ppl like you always crying but can’t seem to grasp the basic concept of a FREE SOCIETY

[@artsofthewood5748]

Sounds like you need to get a different job then if that's happening, or you're a turd employee

[@brainplay8060]

@@ReconMarine702 The company is not obligated to match inflation. Slashing benefits is the only real complaint. But then the argument is just, "this is what we offer, you can leave if you feel its unfair". Workers can always walk away from a job with no worries except to find another job. Owners have debts and obligations that they cant leave. If they can't keep a workforce with their offerings then they need to increase those offerings.

[@1AmSwapnil]

Great to see such a healthy discussion with open dialogue for both parties as opposed to the craziness and chaos we see in the media and other shows full of hecklers or ideologs

[@anonymousposter6671]

Lol... here’s the good news, this is America, you are free to get all your worker buddies together and start your own business and share the profits equally... let me know how that works out for you!!!

[@rizon72]

The problem is this kid isn't the one who wants to take the risk, he only wants the reward. So he will never do this.

[@JL-qf3hq]

It’s implemented in various US towns as co-ops and there may exist a wage difference based on role but it’s capped and profits are shared. I’ve seen some successful co-ops in my local towns. I’m a capitalist but this does seem like a viable business model with the exception of startup, talent recruit, and crisis management. For startup, who or what group of persons would assume 100% of the risk yet share 100% of the profits? Seems like altruism is a requirement to get something like this started. Unless, the government assumes the startup risk, in which case the government is socialist and we are not that. I suppose that’s why co-ops are less prevalent than private corps in US.

[@stevenkingsley7781]

James L how altruism could be one reason. Another reason may be that you’re entering into a competitive marketplace and in a bid to increase your workforce productivity, you incentivise their labour with a share of the profits. Although you’d undoubtedly make more money in a traditional approach, this method could bring a greater likelihood of success? I’m not saying it’s a guarantee m or even that I would suggest doing it if setting up a company, just a viewpoint where I could see this approach being of benefit

[@jerryrothenberg9750]

@@EzBz982 For the most part I agree with what you are saying. However, there are usually things put in place such as non-disclosure agreements, no compete clauses that would stop them from stealing knowledge and doing exactly what their employer is doing at least for a period of a set length of time after leaving that employer. In most cases it's about 2 years, depending on what time length it states in the contract. But you have an excellent point about investing into shares of publicly traded companies. I worked for a company that had stock sharing program along with 401K. I invested in both. But when the company went under, my shares of stock were worthless, but it was a good program because I did cash in shares of stock within that 5 year period until the government under Obama administration basically fucked the company over. We did financial aid processing for several for profit colleges and trade schools.

[@QdsWhhj]

rizon72 where do i sign up for the risk of owning my own company. I would also like to risk buying a new porsche. And make the ultimate risk of living in a mansion. I want to be a risk taker too.

[@hagarthehorrible1391]

So according to his logic the guys who constructed the house that he lives in have equal rights to the property as him. What a twat.

[@unknownmemer3851]

Lmao

[@KilledByPotatoes]

A house is not a mean of production

[@senzubean31]

KilledByPotatoes no, but the building and construction industries are.

[@koreyfatiaki5755]

bruh💀

[@hagarthehorrible1391]

@@KilledByPotatoes it is worth money. That is capital.

[@LeftyRighty777]

I lived in Socialism, there, workers own no means of production either. Some names: stalin, castro, chavez, they own the means of production. In fact you own less than in capitalism. Because the state, or the socialist party want to decide everything and they cannot possibly know which are my necessities individually in any given moment, and I don’t decide anymore, the state, the government, the party ‘knows’ what is best for us. People cannot have power or property for production because they ‘would exploit’ the workers, socialism is enemy of the people with money and private property, they are the enemy, so: in socialism everybody will be poor and will have no properties who could benefit and protect you.

[@ctreid87]

But "democratic" socialists would tell you that the socialism that you lived under wasn't real socialism.

[@LeftyRighty777]

Caleb Reid yep, but i lived it, so was real, the one of them is not real yet

[@dinkmartini3236]

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've written this: "Socialism WILL make us all equal. We'll all be equally dirt f#%cking poor!"

[@parthsavyasachi9348]

my wife lived in socialism too, she does not even wish that to her worst of enemies.

[@anthonybucci9248]

I want to share this on my fb page.

[@RidesInforests]

Socialism-in-Practice is a Nightmare, Not Utopia.

[@wes326]

They can own the means of production, it's called buying stock. Or he can start his own business and assume the risks and rewards.

[@kabul700]

With what? With their wages? Then what should they eat?

[@l.s4192]

Brandon Hopkins amen!

[@kabul700]

@Brandon Hopkins who is talking about college graduates here? It is the labourer who work at the factories, and get paid the minimum. Working on a factory line won't give you the opportunity to prove your worth. If we look at world in overall, most of the wealth that these rich people made is from cheap labour in 3rd world countries, who earning are barely enough for their food. Do you know how much people make working in factories in China, Bangladesh, India, Philippines, etc etc? Talking about north America and Europe, I live in Toronto and even though with a minimum hourly rate of $14, people who work at fast food chains can't even afford housing with that earnings and I'm sure the same is correct with other major cities around NA, so not sure where would they get the 5% to save to become billionaires.

[@yyeeeyyyey8802]

@@kabul700 That's funny, those "3rd world countries" you speak about are exactly the countries that didn't addopt capitalism, or did so only in a very limited way and/or very recently.

[@RodMartinJr]

Exactly, Wes. And then the workers become "capitalists." But ALL publicly-traded corporations are Leftist Capitalists, because they push for Big (Socialized) Government and do their best to destroy the Free Market capitalists (on the Right). Both the Leftists and the Rightists remain blind on this glaring fact.

[@brucetiss1526]

As Ben alluded to, you will never hear a socialist say they want to invest money to buy the company, or share in the potential failure of that company. Instead, you will just hear them say they want a share of the profits. Gee, I would love that business model, too.

[@averagejoe9040]

If you paid a worker in shares of the company rather than money, they would claim abuse. Yet essentially, thats what this guy wants.

[@averagejoe9040]

@martin corderoy that isnt how shares work. When publicly traded companies go under, they file bankruptcy and their assets are sold off to cover their remaining debt, the stock holders dont usually pay anything out of pocket, but the money they had invested in the shares is lost.

[@averagejoe9040]

@martin corderoy more to the point, I was saying that in general, workers like being paid in cash, rather than in stock or assets. Im sure this guy would want shares (and the associated risk) but most workers would not.

[@jigarp999]

The rumor has it, the guy is still looking for someone who can provide him with wood, yellow paint, graphite, rubber, and aluminum. He is offering his hands in return.

[@eduds6]

Look im a social liberal and i think this socialist definitely doesnt understand the dynamics of market economies and why private propriety is not something that can be owned by employees, but i must say that you americans are doing a great job in keeping dialogue. This is needed between the left, the center and the right and this level and willingness of debate is necessary for a republic

[@Azmania3000]

You're right, the business owner should be entitled to his organs

[@TacticalDimples]

@@eduds6 I actually agree with this. To put bluntly, you need stupid people to have smart people. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@nathantoburen6770]

In exchange for a hand job

[@Azmania3000]

@@eduds6 Heh these guys deserve each other. Neither is willing to break a sweat and they're just buying time until someone like me comes to do all the work. Being a cynic; I think both should shut the hell up and actually do something that warrants respect. The kid is a whiner; and Shapiro is a spoiled shit. Look how pretty their woman hands are🤫

[@mystabee]

This never gets old

[@ninjadrags3962]

They just want the profit not the loss. So then the business fails they don’t get paid

[@gomaxim7057]

Many companies make losses for several years in a row and still workers get paid the agreed upon salary. Every worker has millions of possible employers to choose from and if he is very skilled, companies will outbid eachother and offer him a high salary because they want to make use of his skill. Or alternatively, the worker can always create his own company. Nowadays even 12 year old kids are starting up their own company. It has never been easier. There is really no excuse.

[@davidsaldivar6297]

I'm myself is a stuipd fk..but i heard the pen is mighty then the sword..just saying..trump for 1986

[@gargleblasta]

Sounds like a socialist to me

[@lylecampbell9036]

Go Maxim as a business owner, I have to pay my employees before I can get paid. By law I cannot not pay them.

[@trailryder5813]

@@lylecampbell9036 And you take pretty much all the risk not just the investing but from work place accidents and law suits etc. If your profit was shared with the workers and you are sued will they also be so willing to pay money lost in a law suit?

[@livelongandprosper1363]

A small boy says to his mother, Mom, I want to be a Socialist when I grow up! Mom replies, make up your mind, you can't do both.

[@stjjames]

😄

[@peterpiper831]

Brilliant ! 😁

[@dandre3504]

Very sharp indeed! Nice! You are either a small child in a socialist setting or you become a grown up and take responsibility

[@GB3770]

Churchil said if u dont vote labour when young you have no heart and if u dont vote tory when older you have brain...

[@dr32803]

This comment is all over utube.

[@cj-nyc2057]

that kid just learned more from Ben in 5 minutes than he has in his whole time at college.

[@Michael-cs3uj]

CJ -NYC maybe but the sad thing is he will still believe he’s right

[@cj-nyc2057]

Michael probably .. until he gets to the real world and pays taxes.

[@ashtonduda9971]

If you see the whole interview it's pretty evident he didnt learn a damn thing. He is already closed minded and has a viewpoint and it's not changing

[@penske_material]

He didn't learn anything here. Learning would mean his thinking will change a bit at least, but no, he'll think the same wys for the rest of his life.

[@gfoursux9]

I wonder if that kid can convince his Uber-Liberal Professors that they should be payed $15/ hr and plead his case to the University Board of Directors that he should be part owner of the College. These College kids are woefully ill-prepared for life after school. They're brainwashed into staying in school to earn more & more useless degrees so that the Universities can get bigger while sticking students with mountains of debt that their worthless degrees can never help or hope to pay off.

[@Chard-man-G]

most companies do share the profit with the workers if they take advantage of the stock savings plan. If they own stock in the company, then they too are owners.

[@Pdraper84]

Socialist: I don’t understand how business works but I want lots of money. Capitalist: I learned how business works and got lots of money.

[@timdake]

Timothy Mccarthy - Socialists do “believe in” other people’s property.

[@konghammer6061]

@Timothy Mccarthy God forbid you show up at a socialists house and start taking stuff though. They dont like it much.😋 Almost got me arrested.lol

[@konghammer6061]

@Timothy Mccarthy you just have to be able to afford the ticket price.😋 Probably more money for one party then I will see in my life.

[@Dmdm_dm]

Do you realize that the vast majority of capitalists inherited their vast wealth and are not self-made b/millionaires? Your definition is complete bs

[@Pdraper84]

D84 I didn’t realize that. Did you know the vast majority of trolls get wifi under their bridge?

[@clammer23]

Damn. You just know that kid went to Ben's talk thinking too himself, "Oh hell yeah! I can't wait to stump Ben with my question. He'll have zero response to my socialist presentation!"

[@SonnyGTA]

clammer23 hahahahaha oh yeah!!!!!!!!!! Absolutely...he practiced and practiced with his stupid pencil scenario. Ben KNOWS that kid practiced that too. So he thoroughly and ruthlessly dismantled that stupid idiot systematically using his own examples. Perfection. I would have loved to see that kid afterwards.

[@wethepeople1489]

clammer23 When him and his “comrades” get together they probably came up with that dumb ass scenario and it sounded awesome amongst themselves, but have never been challenged by an outside argument before. Glad people like Ben are out there b!tch slapping truth into some of these idiots.

[@michaelheffernan4509]

"The goal of Socialism is Communism."Lenin

[@Yeti480]

Ding ding ding this guy knows what’s up

[@SanganozusLP]

Well don’t forget that Lenin was trying to stop Stalin‘s communism from rising

[@GeldtheGelded]

Let's not forget that Lenin and Trotsky pretty much inspired Stalin's policies

[@SanganozusLP]

@@GeldtheGelded Wasn't Trotzki exiled and later killed by Stalin?

[@charmingcthulhu6544]

@@SanganozusLP it was more a case of Lenin trying to stop Stalin in general as he proved an unhinged psychopath

[@rsavage-r2v]

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -- Abraham Lincoln

[@dsgio7254]

Thanks. I had forgotten...

[@Blap008]

Socialist: Pay me more for doing mindless work because without me you're nothing *Automates job*

[@Just-inquisitor]

Government: *Now collects an automation tax for displacing millions of workers.* Socialist: *Now receives 1,000 dollars a month in universal basic income.*

[@Blap008]

@@Just-inquisitor reminds me of this: Government: Raises minimum wage laws Small companies: Let's go of employees because they can't pay them Big companies: Buys a machine to do the work and gets the market share of small companies Workers: Without jobs Government: We did great work for the community *2 weeks later* Government: People are without jobs because of the corruption of companies, let's tax the companies extra to pay these workers Small companies: Go under because of the taxes The workers there: Now out of work Doesn't really apply but I needed an excuse to make this rant

[@Just-inquisitor]

@@Blap008 It's more like... Small companies: *Stays afloat because they cannot afford to automate like big corporations, so they aren't qualified to pay the automation tax.* Population: *Experiences an increase in health and happiness because people not only receive a monthly stipend of up to 1,000 dollars a month but can also choose to work a job on the side for additional income.* *3 months later* Government: *Converts private healthcare system into a single-payer one like the rest of the developing world.* Population: *Experiences a significant decline in disease-related deaths, crime, and poverty.*

[@emmapeel8163]

@@Just-inquisitor - except if the Government found out u were working along with getting a UBI .. u would either be dropped from UBI or taxed up the wazoo for that side job. i can see you've never lived in a Socialist nation.

[@Just-inquisitor]

​@@emmapeel8163 Yes, and I can see that you don't understand what a UBI is. Because if you did, you'd know that it's a universal basic income that all citizens would be entitled to with no strings attached, (so no one can be "dropped" from it)unlike welfare which is NOT universal and heavily reliant on bureaucracy; that is that recipients would have to fall below a certain income bracket to qualify for it. Moreover, with some UBI models that have been proposed, the amount of money that people would get would put them right at the poverty line; in the US, that would be about 1,000 dollars a month, which is about 12,000 dollars a year. That means that in addition to receiving UBI, a person could actually work a part-time job or a minimum wage job for an additional 12,000 dollars a year and they'd still be within the lower-income bracket of about 24,000 dollars a year, so they wouldn't be paying very much in taxes. Also, apart from a few western countries that experimented with UBI for a short while, UBI isn't currently being implemented in so-called socialist countries. You're confusing UBI with social welfare programs, and supplemental income. There is a difference. Social welfare programs increase bureaucracy, while UBI decreases it.

[@lansiman]

socialist: i want piece of the profit factory owner: do you want piece of the debt/risk of livelihood if business failed socialist: no but i still want the money

socialist: i want piece of the profit factory owner: do you want piece of the debt if business failed socialist: yes factory owner: well, you can't have it. :)

[@rabidpogoista4510]

@ Also socialist: "...but if I get stuck with the debt, I wan't everybody else's money to bail me out"

[@_MysticKnight]

@ if a socialist wants both the profit and risk they can actually get it. How? Buying shares in the company.

[@toto3777]

The factory owner has all decision-making, policy, company guidance, etc. which a worker does not. If the business fails, the factory owner is generally to blame. I do not see why anyone else should take his debt if he fucks it up. Moreover, this does not preclude workers from being entitled to a larger cut of the profits nor you disregarding their risk of losing their only source of income if the factory owner fucks up.

[@makoy2689]

This doesn't even make sense because any business of any decent to small size likely has limited liability meaning that the only losses that will be taken if the business falls through will be what has been invested in the business itself. I'm not american so i'm not completely familiar with how it works in the us but it's likely similar to britain in that there are limited companies with limited legal liability meaning that debt collectors are not going to come knocking on your door if you are in debt. They will simply liquidate what assets the business has and then probably write off the debt or declare bankruptcy with little change in the owner's personal finances.

[@michaelluciano1980]

40 seconds in and this guy is sweating like a pastor in Alabama. Maybe because he chose his example as a freaking PENCIL FACTORY

[@fightrrrrr]

Any example of any business will Work. It’s all the same

[@moonbasemonk]

It's a reference to Milton Friedman. He used the making of the pencil to explain the power of the market kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGaqoaOfYrRml5o

[@discojohn8753]

@@moonbasemonk i was literally about to say this, im sure it took a lot of self lying and poor arguments for that kid to shake off that pencil argument. And I'm sure the argument against it was just funneled down from professors, but if it wasnt, goddamn you can tell my boy Milton got to him lmao

[@lambeezy5014]

@@fightrrrrr He's sweating because Ben Shapiro idolizes Milton Friedman, who used the making of a pencil as an example of economics and the means of production. He shouldn't have used an example that Ben Shapiro wouldn't have turned against him so effortlessly.

[@leroyhovatter7051]

He's obsessed with pencils if you catch my drift.

[@bardclay]

The owner risks losing the means of production. The laborer risks losing his life if he does not trade his labor for wages. It's not an equal comparison. Everyone seems to miss the pint which is that there is a trade happening between employer and employee and somebody has to be exploited. It is always the laborer who does. You cannot argue that because exploitation is a fact of existence that therefore we just have to accept it as a foundation of commerce. We invented commerce. We can wrote its rules. Up until now the employer has always been the one writing the rules and progressives argue that by uniting in solidarity with other laborers, the laborers should and can write the rules. The workers will win too. We're already seeing it. That's why staunch capitalists are losing their shit because they see the inevitable. If we're gonna play a game of chicken, who do you think will win? The ones who work for themselves already and have solidarity with their neighbors or those who have nothing but capital and are surrounded on all sides by masses of people who no longer view their capital valuable?

[@markanderson1119]

The people who agrees with Shapiro here are also the ones who complain about losing their jobs to people in Asia. They don't realize they are the low skill worker Shaprio referred to.

[@willnitschke]

You absolutely have no clue how self entitled you sound, do you? You literally are moaning that you want to live a life without having to work? Without risks? Getting out of bed in the morning has risks, champ. How are you going to fix all that? Get the government to pass some laws and then you'll live in the land of rainbows and unicorns? How pathetic you people are. The sad part is you're going to get what you asked for, but this won't be what you wanted.

[@RevoltingPeasant123]

0:28 : There is a major power imbalance in our ability to negotiate wages. 0:59 : Capital needs labour infinitely more than labour needs capital. Ladies and gentleman I present to you, the definition of a contradiction.

[@nathanrenner9674]

Rekt

[@jameshumes4713]

@ spoken like a fantastic barista.

[@RevoltingPeasant123]

Martin Stu Strange that historic events of people expelled from nations for the sin of being wealthy, along with all their material possessions confiscated often go on to become highly successful. It’s almost as if the ability to create wealth lies in the human mind, not their property.

[@The7thAdam]

@ way to go with the ad hominem, you must be wonderful at debates.

[@anthropomorphicbeing2437]

@ Not really. He pointed two points made by the socialists and claimed they contradict each other. IF you see the contradiction (not a direct one) you see the argument. But you just used name calling. That's an empty argument, not his.

[@sonnyburnett8725]

The current generation seems to have a large portion that only sits and tries to find ways to not work.

[@sebastianchavez577]

We'd work if the boomer in chief and his aides didn't crash the economy.

[@jkolol1433]

I agree with but we're not all like that

[@Samuelcpittman]

I'm laying on the floor and not working right now. Seems like I found a way...

[@hypercyclone1252]

“Give the hardest job to the laziest people, they will always find the easiest way to do it” - I have absolutely no idea

[@ayoutubeuser7613]

@@sebastianchavez577 lazy excuses. You probably don't even know what a boomer is.

[@alemedina4243]

I'm from Chile. My great grandpa was french and he travelled when he was 17, didn't speak any spanish and never saw his parents again. After intense hardwork, he managed to buy farms. Before he died, he shared the farms with his kids, including my grandma. In 1970, a socialist president was elected and implemented an "agrarian reform", that consisted in expropriate the farms and give it to the "working class". So that happened to my family's farm: the government took it and gave it to the workers, which didn't knew a thing about managing a farm. If everyone is responsible, then nobody is. My family did recovery the farm after the end of the socialist government and we own it until this day.

[@schmingusss]

Your famiy was lucky they weren't executed.

[@lukasguy9762]

I'm presuming you are speaking of Allende. I'd say he was much better than Pinochet, who just killed those he didn't like

[@patrickrohmann6579]

@Micah Burns true but how would you make that easy access happen today?

[@alemedina4243]

@@lukasguy9762 Yes, Allende is the perfect reason of good intentions leading to hell. He was a doctor and helped the poor people and saw the conditions they were living on it. He really did care about the working class, but his policies were abysmal. I think he has been the only socialist government that gain power not by force but by election, despite the US intervention (Look "Operation Condor" for more information). After the 11/September/1973, when military forces took the government, bombing the presidential house and with Allende's suicide, the military government was installed for 17 years. Pinochet, the dictator, killed thousands of people and until now people don't know where they relatives ares because they dissapeared (we called them "Detenidos desaparecidos", "Missing detainees" could be a good translation). The militaries did horrible things to our people during that period.

[@blankblankpog]

@@alemedina4243 Atleast Chile got their economic miracle time during General Free Market reign and now probably the only developed country in latin america

[@TheBlindArcher.]

Any time this clip shows up on my feed, I’ll watch it. Regardless of your stance, it’s top 5 savage moments of all time

[@dsgio7254]

Shapiro has edited his response which is already fallacious ..

[@TheBlindArcher.]

@@dsgio7254 how so?

[@dsgio7254]

@@TheBlindArcher. If you scroll down 7 months ago - you will see I have posted and shown all Shapiro fallacies ,,For instance :the fact that workers "voluntarily " go to work does not mean that they don't produce the entire surplus.. For example you can have enterprises without private owners: Gov owned or coops and still produce surplus. But you cannot have private owners without labor producing anything .. Even if you give them capital and high tech .. which is typically public funded .. By the way capital and high tech don't belong to private owners .. anyway --- they are the result of public investment..

[@willnitschke]

@@dsgio7254 But they don't. That's just Marxist idiocy. If workers produced 100% of the profit, then you could just stick 100 of them in an empty field and they'd start making stuff. But they don't. You're not very intelligent, are you?

[@WeAreShowboat]

Socialist: I want more money Shapiro: Get good

[@FirstNameLastName-oz5ij]

*Git gud

[@melainewhite6409]

Unfortunately nowadays the answer could also be "get yourself higher on the identity ladder".

[@Bear86-z7q]

I would love to see this kid come up with a billion dollar business and just give it to all the workers..

[@orestis1609]

He is a 9-5 worker so he would never become successful

[@Andrew_003]

Ultimate flaw with socialist ideals is that everyone complains about power, until the day they get it

[@kylenewman6498]

@@orestis1609 you tell em. No person who works regular hours will ever be successful and that's what America is all about /s

[@eoin8450]

What does that have to do with anything? The workers would just build a business together because it would be a democracy

[@eoin8450]

@@kennethsnodgrass2607 haha good one, hope you enjoy suckling on the boots of capitalism defending the bougie that exploit you

[@stevewiles7132]

The worker can own all the machinery he likes, if he wants to pay for it.

[@dittoford]

goggles789 But then what the kid truly wants is just a better regulatory law. Not entire reformation of economic system from capitalist to socialist

[@johntaylor1217]

Agreed ...he then becomes an investor wanting an actual "stake in" rather then a "hand out"

[@chistop_browendt1]

@goggles789 okey so how much should a person with no skills no experience and no education earn ? Huh

[@yuchuntam8932]

goggles789 men，if you have good skill, you not gonna get these cheap job, you get these jobs cause you are fucking lazy in learning new skill and study, opportunities are open to everyone

[@danieldougan269]

@@chistop_browendt1 Enough to live on. That should be the minimum.

[@HungryTacoBoy]

This pencil-coated guy definitely practiced this pencil factory speech in the mirror for hours, especially the "pile of wood, yellow paint, graphite, rubber, and aluminum" part.

[@DeltaFlare987]

Then Ben totally repeated it with precision lmao. Old comment but still funny

[@ProletariatSympathiser]

Everyone rehearses everything. They’re reading from scripts in congress, get over it.

[@selfishcapitalist3523]

All the losses, risks and initiatives for thee, profit sharing for me. -Every socialist ever

[@dogewisdom9921]

Selfish Capitalist 😂

[@scottlevinson2577]

Big businesses tend to sometimes socialize their risks. E.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program

[@efrainrondon5753]

@@scottlevinson2577 and that is not free market, if you take a bad risk, you should go bankrupt.

[@scottlevinson2577]

@@efrainrondon5753 you may be surprised to find out that virtually all 'free market' economies today have relied on extensive government intervention throughout their histories. I can give you some examples and references if you're interested.

[@efrainrondon5753]

@@scottlevinson2577 no economy relies on government intervention, they survive the intervention of politicians that think they know better than the people. Shoot your examples and I'll respond with examples of how the free market is superior economically and morally to any other system.

[@ekagaurangadas]

This guy has no clue of how life goes, he never had to pay any bill.

[@thegreatrainman2336]

I agree Ben is sheltered

[@isaacsamuel9520]

Who do you mean by "this guy"??

[@ekagaurangadas]

@@isaacsamuel9520 the kid asking the question

[@davidl.8722]

Eka but that makes no sense

[@michaeltemmen1223]

David L. When you create jobs. It makes perfect sense.

[@michaeltemmen1223]

And thats why the world is being replaced by robots.

[@markmark5269]

The main reason is of course that robots don't get tired, don't get sick, don't have babies, don't have holidays ... a good worker is still a better bet than a robot, but they are frustratingly rare, and even then more numbers of even good workers tend to slow each other down as they help each other and socialise, robots don't care about each other, and that's why big companies prefer lots of robots than lots of workers.

[@sukhim5486]

It's actually pretty scary that alot of jobs will be lost and increasing taxes is only going to accelerate the process.

[@depuisdonc5189]

Why don't you write your comment on a piece of wood instead of your pc or whatever if you really hate so much robots?

[@AlexBlack397]

Lizards*

[@markmark5269]

@@depuisdonc5189 PCs don't take jobs directly. An Engineer who had a pencil and draftboard before, merely uses a CAD program now. A writer who used a typewriter before merely uses Word now (and still types), ect. There is a difference between a computer and a robot, regardless of them being intertwined..

[@A.Hess7749]

I always think it’s hilarious listening to anyone talk about this when they’ve never in their life been the owner of a legitimate company. You can’t imagine what kind of hard work has to go into it… licensing, payroll, taxes, travel expense, employees, products, building code and regulation, maintenance, insurance, etc. they have no idea…..

[@factory_enslavement]

Well I could say the same about the other part That's because everyone has a certain level of ignorance and that is acceptable but I think that the main point of this argument wasn't about "which is more important in a factory" rather than "which system works better"

[@A.Hess7749]

@@factory_enslavement That’s not what he was saying…. But yes, of course there’s always going to be some degree of ignorance. My comment was based on my perspective. My employees work eight hour days, they get holidays, weekends, birthdays, paid time off, sick days, health insurance… all the things, right. I don’t get any of that… in the last 12 years I’ve worked every Christmas, missed birthdays, holidays, vacations, I work when I’m sick, I work weekends… in fact my day starts at 6 o’clock and I usually don’t get in bed until between midnight and 2 am. ….because if I don’t do my job, the 2000 people that I employ don’t have a job either… i’ve invested every single penny I have into my business and I put in the time that other people obviously wouldn’t be willing to… so when employees complain and say things like “your company wouldn’t be anything without us”, it just makes me laugh. I mean how wonderful would it be to just call in and say “I’m sick, I can’t come to work today” lol… thank God I haven’t had to take any buisness loans out, but I did invest everything I have including my retirement. So I guess I’m not quite sure what you were saying… my comment is just based on my experience and my perspective… that’s it.

[@factory_enslavement]

@@A.Hess7749 The workers are just as important as the one who owns the company The amount of time you work is not directly proportional with the importance of it That's why some people work less for more

[@A.Hess7749]

@@factory_enslavement Of course workers are just as important as the person that owns the company, I never said they weren’t. What I was saying is that I could relate and understand his comment. Some of my employees really don’t have any idea what running a company entails. So if my business brings in $6 million a year, I pay about 1.5 in taxes and it cost me between 3.5-4 to run my company… so my actual profit is not even close to what we brought in. However, the only thing that my employees see is $6 million. My company builds software that looks for health-care fraud and abuse, we also work cost containment, billing coding, waste, and adjudication… because I work with PHI (patient healthcare information) and it’s protected by the Federal government, I have to carry special insurance to be able to do that. If even one persons information is lost to hacking it would cost me $1 million per compromised life. If I don’t do my job my employees don’t have jobs either. In reality, im doing a lot more than most of my employees and I’ve invested and sacrificed a lot more. I’ve spoken with other company CEO’s and what we’re seeing is that after we hire employees and pay for their education, additional training and skills, they basically take all that we have invested in them and go off to another company asking for more money now that they have more to offer. Its frustrating when you’ve just invested a ton of time and money into someone and realized they just used your company for its resources. My employees are very important to me. However, young people today are going out and looking for jobs at companies like ours… they put on a show, pretend that they are very excited about being part of the team, and really looking forward to a future in our company… but they’re really just wanting our our resources. It feels like someone is stealing from you when they do that. The problem is that sometimes I spend six months to a year of one-on-one training, teaching coding, programming, how to use our software, I send them to school, conferences, workshops…. and sometimes it’s wasted time, money, resources, and I still don’t have anyone to do the job… A few years ago I hired a young lady and I spent a lot of money preparing her for her job. We paid her tuition, travel, rental car, food, several workshops and we sent her to a $10,000 conference…. After about eight months she came in and said that she would be leaving in three weeks to move to Tokyo with her boyfriend. She told one of our other employees that she took the job with us so that she could save enough money to be able to live in Tokyo for a year…. She knew i was wasting my time, she knew that we were investing a lot into her… and she knew why we chose to hire her. I can’t even say I got eight months of paid work from her . All I and my team did was waste our time training her. It was a lot of additional work for me and my team to train her because we were preparing her to take over a department of our company. But that’s what business is, we carry the burden, responsibility and all of the risk. I value my employees and respect them 100%. I appreciate every single seemingly insignificant task. I invest so much into my employees because we value them. I ran my company for 15 years by myself and I have done every single one of their jobs, so I can appreciate everyone and what they do. What I was saying in my comments was that sometimes employees don’t understand how much weight employers carry on their shoulders. Again, my comment was from my personal experience and my perspective as a buisness owner. I never once said that employees weren’t as valuable. It’s just like trying to compare apples and oranges in my opinion. I just don’t agree with employees thinking they should own the companies they work for because they are doing the work… yes they do the work and they get paid for it, but there are no strings attached otherwise. I am the one that invested and took all the risk when I started my business, and if it fails I will incur all of that responsibility… not them. So why should they own what I am responsible for whether it fails of succeeds. If they wanted to absorb debt, risk, legal responsibility and all of that good stuff then fine… but they don’t, they just want to reap the benefits and that’s not how it works. Employees can always purchase company shares…

[@MR-kw4oh]

@@A.Hess7749 Ok but without workers your company just doesn't function. period.

[@harrykalos8540]

Socialist stands there and wonders why he has a sore behind.

[@extraphobic7710]

Butthurt lol

[@ralfie8801]

Oh, dang. I thought maybe he spent the night in the crossbar hotel.

[@imcallingjapan2178]

@Micah Burns Careful, these are Benny Shapiro fanboys, are you trying to give them migraines? Thinking beyond their idol's words does not compute for them.

[@harrykalos8540]

@Micah Burns if you stop splitting hairs it's the same concept. It's socialism.

[@harrykalos8540]

@@imcallingjapan2178 no migraines here, just simple logic. Monetary return is relative to the risk laid out by the Individual. If you go to the casino with your buddy to play roulette and you have $100 combined, of which $10 Is yours, and your bet wins and you double the $100, are you entitled to half? No. Don't give yourself a migraine thinking about it.

[@samjames1253]

Ben Shapiro must be John Wick because he just killed that guy with a pencil

[@arch.amielpatrickpunzalan2787]

Lol

[@MakeYourDay_Good]

More like Jason Bourne

[@agenpertin7439]

Lol 😂😂😂

[@joshuaesposito5409]

HahHhHh

[@estebanarangosuarez6792]

But jhon wick killed TWO guys

[@er7586]

Sadly many like him think this way. All products of 10th place trophies....

[@thespartanjello5056]

Capitalist in order to have more profit gone to third world country for cheap labor....more capitalist joined him because only profit meters,30y later he and people who joined him are billioners,country where they come from is ruined,working class people don't exist,companies are dying....third world country is now economic leader and they are buying ruined companies from former economic giant...

[@secondpath5148]

And to think, you're the same type that would say "Greed is in human nature, that's why socialism doesn't work!" No, Not everyone's greedy. You're just a self-serving pile of shit.

[@secondpath5148]

@Mickey McCracken Keep telling yourself that Boomer. You're one to talk about "White Privlege" there buddy. Anyways, Socialism is better than having a literal Nazi in charge of your country.

[@geecee1990]

@@thespartanjello5056 That really makes no sense at all.

[@geecee1990]

@@secondpath5148 Nazi? Apparently you haven't studied much history.

[@Clement_Ferns]

ben is on point as always... even though i live in india... massive respect for Mr.Shapiro

[@Thunda1986]

He want's all the benefits and none of the responsibility or risk

[@DeMoraJS]

That's EXACTLY the socialists' mindsets in a nutshell.

[@KyleHUNK]

Worker cooperatives have all workers as owners aka taking all of the responsibility and risk so I disagree

[@KyleHUNK]

Not even agreeing with him, that just isn’t true

[@zimbonz]

@@KyleHUNK if all have responsibility, then none have responsibility.

[@danieldougan269]

@@zimbonz So, if a corporation has thousands of shareholders, no one is responsible for it? There are employee-owned companies. Some are successful, some are not. Just like privately held and publicly traded companies. The man who started the company I work for is planning to retire and turn the company over to us employees. We will essentially buy him out with proceeds from a loan, and then we will all be shareholders in it. We will have a board, which will include him (this is not a requirement of an employee-owned company, but that is the plan) and a few other trusted people. This student is arguing for the right to do something that already exists today. If a bunch of workers at a privately held company want to pool their resources or borrow money to buy their bosses out, they can at least try to do that. Or they could start a new company with that structure. But the real challenge they will face is what the student is really getting at: they probably don't have the money to do it because they haven't been paid well enough over the years to amass the money. People who didn't already have plenty of money to begin with have a difficult time raising enough capital. Or some start a company with insufficient capital, and it fails. Or they ended up with huge medical bills they can't afford to pay. Or they were saddled with a lot of student debt. And so they stay on this hamster wheel. The fundamental challenge he is getting at is economic inequality and low social mobility. It's the low percentage of the company's income that goes toward paying wages vs. paying the ownership. In the USA especially, the best way to make money is to already have it (and especially to inherit it), so social mobility here is very low. In many other places like the Scandinavian countries, social mobility is much higher.

[@1monthago860]

As someone who does assemble pencils, this person exaggerate things. I just make pencils.

[@laceyharless5203]

the pencil was an example.

[@chaseholstein7083]

@@laceyharless5203 it was a dumb example...well, hes just dumb.

[@laceyharless5203]

@@chaseholstein7083 i’m glad you’re able to share your opinions here, but in reality, your opinion on what is dumb on the internet is entirely useless. it’s just unnecessary drama that no one needs in their life.

[@db9944]

@@chaseholstein7083 Why is is a dumb example? Seems like he was just aiming for simplicity to keep the response simple as well. His point was that employees are needed more than capital to make products and provide services. It's a simple point. Use a simple example. It's wrong, but it's not the example that's bad. It's the argument that is bad. Employees won't work if they aren't getting paid and their job is much harder if their employee isn't paying for machines to assist that work. You can't destroy the incentive for profit. The only person whose ass is on the line is the business owner who is taking out loans and getting investors because that's how you get a business started.

[@richardmesser7243]

Look...the world needs both workers and investors...thats how it works. You can have all the investments in the world...if you got no workers...your the one outside tweedling your thumbs. Good luck in building anything if there are no workers, investors don't get down and dirty in the front lines of a factory. It was workers that made GM as big as they are, and in the end you took all the profits and ran leaving people unemployed. I would love to see how a big invested business run the factory with just the owner. You need each other,and of course there'll be volunteers, people have to eat and live. How about conducting fair business for investors and workers so you have a strong and prospure country. Norway seems to have it right

[@primstar44]

This wasn’t even a debate, this was Shapiro teaching a business lesson to a guy who hasn’t been out in the real world

[@pughotel90]

Haha funny

[@j3kyllsunny111]

The whole arguement was basically "what if people dont want to work for u". Honestly this is basic economics, high supply low demand. U're not willing to work, others are and some are even willing to work with a lower wage. Anyone can build a pencil with the machine and instructions provided.

[@tonyfamularo8374]

Socialist create a utopian world in their small useless brains

[@Jackmerius_Tacktheritrix5733]

Until next semester when this kid reads Ayn Rand is now an expert in libertarianism

[@j3kyllsunny111]

@quicksiliva but its true though, let's say I work as a janitor and I complain about my wage and shifts. "I work for so long and this is all I get" is what everyone will say in that position. Whoever is in charge probably gives 0 shits about me and just fire me and hire someone else since it won't make much of a difference. And since the usa has a decent number of illegal immigrants, anything that's higher than their monthly/annual income in is better than wherever they come from. I mean it's the reason they moved in the first place. Sure u can argue that there is a minimum wage but I'm just saying that some are even willing to work for less money since they dont have a choice

[@alarriag1]

This is an irrelevant discussion. Capitalism doesn’t care who owns the capital. Otherwise there wouldn’t exist many successful employee-owned companies. Unlike other systems, the beauty of Capitalism is that it gives you OPTIONS. You want to be a content wage slave? Go for it. You want to climb the corporate ladder BS? Go for it. Don’t like the company/boss/location/role? You can go elsewhere. Want to consult or do contract work cause you hate being an employee? You can do that too. Want a shot at becoming your own boss? You can even start with almost no capital nowadays for that. Not saying it’s perfect or even close to being easy, but after thousands of years of human civilization, this is pretty darn good.

[@joe80ss]

This is what's wrong with this generation. Self entitlement.

[@josufergysk8s]

Joe Eightys I’m a millennial and everything Ben Shapiro are exact thoughts I’ve had when I’ve complained to myself about working for someone. Problem is these students are tonight entitlement at university , they’re brainwashed. Normal working young people like me don’t think like this . It’s embarrassing.

[@joe80ss]

@@josufergysk8s good to hear.

[@typicalskateboarder3295]

@@josufergysk8s very true! After high school I started working!

[@Immacautionsign]

This generation will be just fine. Definitely better than baby boomers that's for sure

[@maritzadominguez49]

@@Immacautionsign jajajajsha !!! Really!!!

[@frankbalistreri498]

This kid acts like he learned economics from a coloring book.

[@elijahrobinson2362]

That is what today’s secondary and post secondary textbooks look like.

[@larrymags2045]

No, Democrats !!!

[@pocket83squared]

Because it's all so black-and-white, right? You're watching a video that has been edited by the presenter to favor the presenter's own point of view. Economics is _not_ a simple game; it has been parsed and debated since the very beginnings of labor as an abstract, and only morons believe that the results of the study now lack enough nuance to be reducible to talking point simplifications. To use your metaphor, partisan coloring books only allow use of one crayon, so maybe it is you who should upgrade their media. Don't read this comment as a denial of any of the points made here by the presenter; instead, see it as a rebuke of *your* inability to respect other theoretical approaches. Such reductive dismissals are a sure sign of bias, ignorance, and stupidity.

[@pocket83squared]

@Johnny Sack Nice. The 'okay boomer' equivalent to economic theory. Say what you will about stupid replies, but there's a certain strength in that rigid inflexibility. Wish I could find some certainty like that. Probably sleeps like a baby.

[@anthonytom-duyquang3558]

@@pocket83squared Yeah, I found it weird that the conversation was edited. I would like it more when it's an unedited talk between the guy and Ben Shapiro and his reaction to Ben's last argument would be nice.

[@jamespasco132]

This is why companies are investing to AI's. No job for you now.

[@karumotoart5040]

Exactly Ai seems much easier to deal with than people

[@adriangutierrez3196]

Actually , because of this, more companies will be taxed much higher than they are right now

[@ghostridersinthesky21]

@@karumotoart5040 AI cant sue you or ask for workers comp

[@karumotoart5040]

@@ghostridersinthesky21 yup

[@Ryan-ys2bq]

Yes, I quit my management position because I didn't want to deal with these entitled idiots, becoming self employed/sole trader was the best thing I've ever done.

[@darthdingus7439]

There was a much longer version of this exchange once, like 9 minutes long. Genuinely quite interesting

[@a.j.bready9158]

"I don't understand why it's greed to keep your own money, but not to take someone else's." This is socialist thought today.

[@spencergsmith]

Thomas Sowell

[@muglymae7408]

Socialism is now another form of theft

[@daveulrich4623]

Exactly!! I hear it all the time, “You’re just a greedy conservative”. Why because I want to keep the most of MY money which I earned, rather than give it to you? Who’s the greedy one?

[@danielpollion4638]

Because it involves working people. We are not talking above give away programs

[@daveulrich4623]

@@danielpollion4638 So, what are we talking about?

[@ctrlsoul]

This student needs to take a basic economics 101....

[@dinkmartini3236]

Or get his first job at McDonalds. That first paycheck always straightens us all out.

[@JB-jt9kd]

The worker is more than welcome to go invest the time and money to start his own pencil factory.

[@chee1989]

whoa whoa, thats capitalism bro!

[@protectionplustv7172]

Simplicita!

[@davidwhitten3596]

Ed Zachery!

[@heyphilphil]

Then let him pay his workers$100....$500... or $1000 an hour to make a pencil and see how long that buisness lasts.

[@WestCoastAce27]

Exactly. Just like our coddled people athletes who complain about the owners of the teams. Go start your own league if you don’t like it. Good luck when people stop buying tickets. It will be their money going down the drain.

[@DiBaozi]

That kid's argument holds no weight against reality.

[@erhhsdhh2099]

Completely agree 👍 I don’t even get what his point was. It’s all something to the effect of ‘I work here at this pencil factory so I should have the same salary as the owner’.

[@WKrealestateNYC]

Simple argument. If the socialist student wants to own productions and receive dividends. Be the OWNER & RISK TAKER.

[@Matthew-pm5ic]

What about the right of all people to live in minimally decent surroundings, with enough food to keep them from starving, enough clothing to stay warm? What about the right of people everywhere to have adequate health care the rights to not have to suffer or die from relatively minor medical complications which those with money overcome with the snap of a finger? The resources of our planet- including the fruits of the labors of the masses of indescribably poor who are continually and systematically exploited- belong to all the world's people, not just those who are rich and powerful enough to do the exploiting.

[@deadbutmoving]

@@Matthew-pm5ic Your "rights" is someone else's "responsibilities". You can claim all the "rights" you want. Someone has to pay for it. These things don't just magically fall out of the sky. Someone has to produce the things you claim you have a "right" to. If you claim rights to food, someone has to grow the food, manage the food, harvest the food, process the food. If you claim rights to clothing, someone has to produce the textile and produce the clothing. If you claim "rights" to housing, someone has to make the materials and build your house. If you claim rights to medical care, someone has to provide that labor and care. If you force people to provide these things to you via the guns of government (AKA Laws) this is also called slavery/tyranny. Any system of government forcing people to provide labor and goods for other people for "free" will never work because everyone just becomes lazy.

[@Matthew-pm5ic]

@@deadbutmoving I agree with everything you've said. I think we all must take a deep inner sense of responsibility for the world. Only when you say “I did this” can you find the power to change it. Outside the question of weather minimal survival portions are a logical "right" or "wrong", as to how income would be decided, the open marketplace would determine the value of one’s contribution, just as it does today in America. What made America great was not that every man struggled for his own survival, but that every man accepted individual responsibility for the survival of all. America was a nation that would not turn its back on the hungry, would never say no to the needy, would open its arms to the weary and the homeless, and would share its abundance with the world. And yes, in a Unified World Government there may still be the “rich” and the “poor,” but there will no longer be the “starving” and the “destitute.” The incentive won’t be taken out of life, merely the desperation. Because our present incentive for greatness has to do with accumulation of all the world has to offer, all of the world is in various stages of struggle. Enormous portions of the population are still struggling for simple physical survival. Each day is filled with anxious moments, desperate measures. The mind is concerned with basic, vital questions. Will there be enough food? Is shelter available? Will we be warm? Enormous numbers of people are still concerned with these matters daily. Thousands die each month for lack of food alone. Each day in the world, 25,000 people, including more than 10,000 children, die from hunger and related causes. The average person will not be satisfied with subsistence levels and nothing more. In addition, the whole incentive for greatness will change. Because with the shift away from material survival-all beings are freed to pursue self development and self-creation, rather than self-survival. The human spirit rises; it does not fall in the face of true opportunity. The heart seeks a higher experience of itself, not a lower.

[@uguensonam1459]

@@Matthew-pm5ic you can have a company and give $1000 per hour to your millions of workers

[@danielstokker]

This guy is talking about an example of extreme socialism , a form that would not work in reality

[@johnk6324]

They all preach socialism while living in the comfort of capitalism.

[@sheldoncourchene1321]

“you live in a society so you can’t criticize society” i’m very intelligent💀💀💀💀😂😂😂 lmao you have to be satirical

[@bluedaylight1243]

Ungrateful people 😔

[@patbev6650]

all these priviledged white people preach things like socialism or communism, until they dont have an apple phone, live in a shanty house and work in a fucking pencil factory. xD

[@sheldoncourchene1321]

@Let’s go Bowling prove you wrong on what that capitalism is based of the exploitation of others because it is???

[@xocsm_]

@@patbev6650 wrong, communism hasn’t been fully set up in a developed country yet. and if it did develop in the USA for example it would be fine. you hate on communism as you say it would make everyone poor or whatever but a capitalist country like the USA is also a shit hole, take LA for example, one of the richest and iconic city’s in the world and you have extreme poverty everywhere. the homeless have taken over. so take your anti communist thoughts and think about your own country and the mess it’s in under capitalism.

[@kylerott]

That kids parents spent a lot of money for his education and got zero in return.

[@luzier13x]

he got socialism. lol!

[@westcoast6162]

They probably spend zero on him

[@ikoyDaPnoy]

His parents (or grandparents) escaped from a socialist country to a capitalist free country only to raise someone who wants to revert back to socialism.

[@peanutoreo8052]

My father had multiple degrees and was a college math professor and my husband does not have a degree. My husband has successfully started and ran 2 businesses. My father once said that if my husband had gone to college, it would have lowered his IQ. My father said that my husband is the smartest person he ever knew (I agree). College is not for everybody and many people make a good life for themselves without it. There are multiple ways to successfully earn a living and make a good life for yourself. Our son went to trade school and has a college degree. For him, trade school was more profitable and he has a well paying trade. He has never worked in the field that his degree is in. P.S. College was not a complete waste though. He found his wife at college 😀.

[@mikefrazier8409]

No ROI for pencil guy

[@Dabirdisdaword5]

Bro the socialist literally looks like a pencil 💀

[@NTR-Impact]

Underrated comment 😂

[@DeadMan-g2i]

But he has Aryan Blood in his veins.....flowing... Indus valley civilization.....bro

[@michellemiller7818]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@Brunonfire]

Socialists always look like soybots

[@olg7483]

​@@DeadMan-g2i of course he's Indian 😂

[@markmark5269]

This kid should worry, automation has already started to be implemented at McDonalds.

[@barneyclifton6402]

As it should. I went in there to use the toilet, man I'd rather literally die than work there. Nobody should do that.

[@andrewvasquez7872]

And that turn to automation had absolutely nothing to do with increased wages. It was already pre-planned. So the excuse of "well theyll just give your job to robots" is just that, an excuse. No company implements automation in a month or two, that was already a plan for a year or more.

[@patthonsirilim5739]

@@andrewvasquez7872 why would you hire a person to menial repetetive jobs when you can replace with automation automation dont protest they dont demand increase in wages they dont revolt they dont sue you if things go wrong and they work infintily harder and they dont cheat steal or lie i would replace all my staff with automation if i can infact my acountant have already been reaplace by acounting and pos system that automactically check stocks list keep check of sales record and taxation automactic report monthly without me having to do shit except feed it electricty taxation periord and budgeting is a breze already have all the info i need all neat layout it perfrom so much better then a human acountant

[@yourtoygod4ever39]

Motorcycleclub Donalds. Welcome to macdonalds.... Nooo Welcome to MC. Donalds. They cant say Mac... When its MC.?????

[@americansweetheart5597]

He really thinks he's entitled to own a company he didn't build. 🤣

[@captainvoluntaryistthestat3207]

Not just that: make $70,000 or more for playing with pencils. They claim their labor is worth that much (yeah right). Oh and they want dividends, a month paid leave, a stock, and replacing the CEO with a democratically elected fatass union leader. All of this to a company they didn't create just because they happen to have a crappy job there. I wonder what they'll do when things are automated. "Umm we uhh...want UBI!" Their entitlement never stops.

[@ReconMarine702]

Captain Voluntaryist The Statist Slayer I think you missed the point. In general I think he was trying to say he wants to be treated fairly as a “worker”. You hear Americans complain constantly about stagnant wages and the slashing of employee benefits while companies profit immensely and treat their “workers” poorly. I’m not a socialist but I do believe in fair labor practices, especially in times of economic prosperity like we’ve seen the past 10 years.

[@captainvoluntaryistthestat3207]

@@ReconMarine702 What is fair is negotiation. What's not fair is imposing a policy through gov muscle. The average idiot socialist is indoctrinated into never blaming government for the mess ups. Stagnant wage is due to inflation (gov). Corporate profits is due to gov giving the big players monopoly by crushing the little competitors. Gov is the goddamn problem, but idiots only bark at corporations.

[@cstgraphpads2091]

@@ReconMarine702 Wages are only stagnant for those with less than a high school education. The only benefit you're entitled to is the pay you receive for your labor. All other benefits are given to you purely at the good graces of the employer. That is a "fair labor practice". I hire you to perform a task that requires minimal physical and/or mental effort and you get a minimal wage. The point wasn't missed at all. The kid in the video is demanding that he benefit from labor he did not perform. That is most definitely not "fair".

[@cstgraphpads2091]

@@captainvoluntaryistthestat3207 No, corporate profits exist due to those corporations making more money than they spend. Don't act like a big company making money is somehow inherently bad when a little company does not.

[@kevinhodges7704]

I appreciate that the title doesn’t have “destroys” or “slams” in it. Well done

[@jakemakes]

Ironic because this is one of the ones he actually does destroy somebody

[@clearshade3560]

Jake Makes yeah, but it’s kinda cringe now

[@brodiekeown4494]

because it is redundant now.......we all know what ben does to these naive little brats....every time

[@tearsofsoy4091]

@@brodiekeown4494 all he does is go after low hanging fruit. Congrats. He ran away like a scared little girl when Nick Fuentes approached him lmao

[@brodiekeown4494]

@@tearsofsoy4091 talk about low hanging fruit.......you just took a single erroneous argument of his and used it to justify dismissing everything else he has said and done.......this dude goes on national t.v, collage campuses and live debate stages and has pretty much crushed everyone with his reasoning and debating skills.......what about that is "low hanging fruit" that sounds like the vapid jargon of a leftard or some toxic contrarian loser from 4chan that just has to disagree because "the jews caused it all"

[@theghostofspookwagen4715]

Re: money: money only has value insofar as people give it value to begin with. Labor actually produces the pencil. And his point about money being indistinguishable from labor because at one point someone exchanged labor for it doesn't hold water. To see why this is the case try buying groceries with Confederate dollars. Or Reichsmarks. Or Yugoslavian dinars. Hell, shine a guy's shoes in Paris for a few euros, go to a rural town in Tennessee, and try buying a burger with those euros. Just as his parents could've worked 30 years ago to exchange their labor for US dollars, someone else in Belgrade in 1970 or whatever the capital of Virginia is im 1862 could've done the same. Is their measure of capital worth anything at all now? Symbols like money or promissory notes only have value if you choose to assign value to them. You can't say the same for labor. There is literally no way to create a pencil without putting some form of labor in.

[@fulmingaming8660]

people should know their roles not everyone can be the boss thats how nature works this is always a ladder.

[@PhucMi1]

yes, i agree. the issue with pure bolshevik socialism as applied is (admittedly conservatives are right on this one), the government does become corrupt and unchecked, which we've seen under Mao Zedong and Stalin. Which is why i am a proponent of market socialism. Look it up. (its not even truly socialism, despite its name).

[@pizzamafioso9191]

It's like saying: "Let the child deside how much pocket money they get"

[@prs_81]

That's really stupid analogy, but ok.

[@fotis_.__4819]

Hm, not really since the aim of Socialism is cooperative enterprise, so your analogy is quite controversal.

[@uncleben7306]

Parsya o_o idk how your reply got less likes than his comment

[@Fc24737]

"I am a socialist" Ben Shapiro: "So you have chosen death"

[@CJPeiper13]

I believe pencil manufacturing is automated, so he wouldn't even be needed.

[@scoobyduh8878]

Sr. Automated means that engineers are needed. But who knows? Maybe they will dress yellow as well lol

[@v4v819]

@@scoobyduh8878 "Before machine becomes human; humans will become machine..."

[@scoobyduh8878]

@@v4v819 lol so true... I feel like so from time to time that I can barely spot that what I did for a couple hours was just automated brain task without self thinking :(

[@v4v819]

@@scoobyduh8878 Yes! Welcome to the "Brave New World"! At least, you are aware of the automation and subsequent lost of agency... "Free Will is bunk"... Or so the media machine has us believe...

[@uncleben7306]

ScoobyDuh James Appel that's been since the beginning of time

[@markanderson1119]

The fundamental disagreement is how much power should workers have in the whole system (AKA labor union). It's not that laborers should own the means of production, but they should have the power to halt the system to a stop if their expectations aren't met. Shapiro's counter argument was basically "your job is low skill, therefore you are replaceable, therefore you deserve to have no power". For those of you who agree with Shapiro here, please do not complain when your job went overseas to India, or China, or Mexico, or anywhere else where the labor cost is cheaper than here. Because you are unwilling to work for $2/day, which is the going rate in Chinese factories.

[@jamesfranko1568]

Well a simple factory jobs are very low skill and simple thus replaceable cuz not everybody can work at Tesla or Toyota leaving some no choice but to work at places like pencil factory or McDonald's and they work there cuz they pay better than government welfare. Ironically you literally supported Shapiro's point, low skill labor is EASIY replaceable cuz there's always an alternative, those who get rejected by companies work at low wage labor OR overseas where costs or operation is a lot lower. Socialism has never worked and will never work it's just not possible, Hitler have tried, Mao have tried, Stalin have tried, Kim Jong Un is doing it and it's not working and it WILL NEVER work.

[@markanderson1119]

@@jamesfranko1568 Ironically, I didn't make a point. I simply described the points of the two sides in this video.. And judging by your last paragraph, you listened to too many conservative radio talks. There is really no point for us to discuss this as you don't know the basic operational definition of socialism.

[@willnitschke]

@@markanderson1119 So did you buy all your stuff made in America (or wherever) and support your fellow workers, or did you go to WalMart like everyone else and buy the staff that was 70% cheaper? See, I'm just pointing out that people like you are all massive hypocrites.

[@markanderson1119]

@@willnitschke Well, as a consumer, I don't have an obligation to retailers. They don't pay for my living expenses. But since you asked, I do often visit my local stores. If I see something good and affordable and I need, I buy. Place of origin isn't something I care about. The same can't be said for the employer-employee relationship. Consumers don't exploit you, employers do.

[@willnitschke]

@@markanderson1119 So you can buy locally and pay double or triple the price and you're OK with that? Isn't it great to be rich, eh? Oh, and if you're one of those half wits who thinks he is being "exploited" get another job. Or even better, start your own business. Otherwise STFU. When someone insists on playing the victim card they just end up sounding like pathetic imbeciles, sorry.

[@VideoJunkee]

Who is teaching these poor, impressionable children? They should be held accountable for setting these kids up for failure and shackling them with crippling amounts of debt.

[@squafps]

So many of our universities keep professors who are radical leftists and promote progressive and socialist ideals. Hence our prestige schools like Harvard are teaching the kids with the brightest potentials the wrong stuff

[@squafps]

Jonathan I never said they didn’t produce productive students. I’m saying they produce students who might be book smart and productive, but many are fed with liberal and socialist values and taught that their good, and to reject conservative thinking. Some professors teach why America is a bad country. All the while conservatism and right wing thinking is censored or blocked on campus. Also the colleges I’m talking about are the prestige ones like Harvard. I know there are plenty of great colleges who aren’t like that, but many elite schools do what I said above

[@enjnman]

Hopefully Trump will defund these a holes

[@torgr01]

Last Squall well I wouldn't know about universities but I do remember a lot of high school teachers trying to drag me into showing support for left leaning politicians and bringing up sites bashing right leaning politicians. I remember the "social studies" teacher wanted us to discuss why Obama would be a great president because he would be our first black president, why would that make him a better or worse president than the other candidates? Such thinking seems rather racially biased to me.

[@johnjordan3552]

I think it is ok to be right as long as you listen to people that explain stuff and unless you partake in acts physically harm others

[@saveliykramorov3673]

as a person that was born and raised in socialist country i can attest that this dude dressed like a pencil has no idea what socialism is in real life.

[@natnar6181]

what country was this is i can ask

[@derp8575]

@@natnar6181 It doesn't matter. You will support socialism at all costs.

[@godlygoose_gaming543]

@@natnar6181 probably ven and Cuba

[@enderz8398]

@@godlygoose_gaming543 name sounds russian so maybe USSR

[@inigobantok1579]

@@derp8575 that's authoritarianism then a hole

[@grahamhutton1633]

The simple solution is for all,of the “people like me” get together and buy their own factory and and see how they go.

[@rollastudent]

I think the guy is just upset he can’t find other guys to fulfill his dream of a co-op pencil factory

[@gabbar51ngh]

Volkswagen was created by workers. Thing is even for that you need to be valuable to the company and invest something. Socialists are too Lazy to that.

[@grahamhutton1633]

5aral : actually I was under the impression that V W was the brainchild of Adolf Hitler and Ferdinand Porsche was instrumental in set up and design. But there you go.

[@gabbar51ngh]

@@grahamhutton1633 assuming it can't be both. It was created under a Union in Nazi Germany with Ferdinand Porsche leading it. Nazi Germany had lots of socialist policies like price and wage control.

[@joandar1]

@@grahamhutton1633 Volkswagen I have always understood the be translated as meaning Peoples Car. Think Folks Wagon in English and about History and other Languages came to influence this, the only one I speak, English and it is sort of self explaining. VW is/was the brainchild of Hitler with Ferdinand tasked to make things happen as I understand. I may be wrong, John, Australia. PS Thumbs UP.

[@adolphgracius9996]

if your only skill boils down to assembling pencils, you have a greater problem than just power imbalance 😂😂🤣🤣

[@archyology]

Of course workers can do lots of things, they are full human beings.