Johnny vs. Undertale

[@Ch4pp13]

I know the whole story. I know the endings. I haven't played the game. The internet fucked everyone over.

[@Erik7Link]

For real! No joke.

[@500Arios]

Yep

[@lucasmartinez5703]

The Internet: the cause of and solution to all of life's problems XD.

[@afternoonkittea]

I'm in the same position as you. The only difference is I chose to research UT.

[@Ch4pp13]

Lucas Martinez how to do homework: 1. receive homework. 2. bleach 3. ??? 4. coffin.

[@SomecallmeJohnny]

If there's going to be any arguing in this comment section, please remember your American Gladiator Q-Tips. Safety Gear optional.

[@PrinceSolarLunarEclipse]

Yessir.

[@starman2517]

I have a mega man helmet! Will that protect me?!

[@solarstrike33]

I have Doomguy's helmet and parts of the Varia Suit.

[@fatfalcon2798]

+SolarstrikeVG but i didn't authorize you to use it

[@fatfalcon2798]

john don't lie you've been too busy playing sonic 06

[@Pioxys]

You don't have to worry about spoiling Undertale Johnny. The fandom themselves does a pretty good job doing that, when you don't want them to.

[@NitroRad]

That ending was brilliant hahaa There's always that old argument over how "playable" a game should be or willing to sacrifice to tell it's story. I agree with you that it's not something you need to make boring af to still get the point across.

[@mariocraft3067]

Why the heck does a comment from Nitro Rad have no replies in 2 years? Wait a minute...

[@gabnack7014]

yep

[@creakingskull7008]

It makes me really happy to see a youtuber post a comment without everyone saying "Oh (insert name here) what are you doing here go back to making videos"

[@666ZX]

:\ you tell john to review Pac-man World 2!

[@tacoman422]

I kind of get that, but at the same time I feel like if something like the Genocide run was inherently compelling on its own and from a gameplay perspective seemed equally viable to a Pacifist run it really would undercut the message of the game, and would likely deny Undertale's inherent logic reversal most players have for a blind run. I know it can seem kind of pretentious and preachy to go on about it at length, but at the same time we have been conditioned by a lot of games, even ones that claim to be serious and grounded, to believe that killing every potential opponent we encounter is "normal", that it's "right" to kill "enemies". Undertale does a lot to reverse that mindset, to see that it's more interesting to show mercy and avoid unnecessary bloodshed, to the point that in the rare instance that you're actually forced to fight, you genuine can't imagine "Fighting" to even be a viable option anymore. There are already plenty of games that are basically like "murder dudes or don't I guess. It's whatever." Undertale is one of the few that feels bold enough to say "This is the end result of playing like an actual sociopath. We don't want to explicitly "reward" that sort of behavior, even if it does have enough of a consequence, even if doing so does have a result you might be curious about." That's not to say this should be the be-all end-all of video game choices and morality. Honestly I'd like to see more games with good and bad routes where the bad route isn't "just" killing dudes, or even ones where killing is an easy task at all. But for an indie dev that came out of nowhere I think it's a pretty smart take on the whole concept.

[@sirpiguithy7341]

I want that Shante Shirt.

[@SomecallmeJohnny]

Level Up Studios. www.levelupstudios.com/pirates-gold

[@sirpiguithy7341]

+SomecallmeJohnny thank you kindly good sir.

[@DotAzam]

He has Shante all over his body. hue hue hue.

[@TerrorOfTalos]

ShantAe

[@amphicyon4359]

Johnny, when you eventually get to the handheld sonic series, I implore you to always look to the master system version as the definitive version of the game. And for triple trouble, really try hard to get a master system reproduction copy or emulator look, because from my experience, it rivals Sonic 2 in quality when you can see more around you Note, this isn't a command, just a suggestion, because review after review complain about camera issues and say nothing about the high quality level design I really hope you see this, as this is the last time

[@Aworkinprogress81]

R.I.P. Johnny and Johnny's Comment Section 2008-2016

[@weirdotzero7065]

(cue Titanic song minus Celine Dion)

[@roxas1335]

No (cue the ooh whatcha say music).

[@Swordkiller55623]

Oh what you sayyy oh that you only meant welll of course you did

[@weirdotzero7065]

roxas1335 Whatcha say should only be used when someone gets dramatically shot.

[@roxas1335]

That true very true.

[@DarkusRelling]

Don't you love how Undertale is a game where _even _*_gameplay mechanics_*_ can be spoilers?_

[@ryandennison8754]

Well three-and-a-half years after release, I'm proud I managed to somehow avoid them, because it sure as hell paid off.

[@dubemudeze8156]

@@ryandennison8754 how?

[@ryandennison8754]

@@dubemudeze8156 how did I avoid spoilers, or how did it pay off?

[@dubemudeze8156]

@@ryandennison8754 both I guess

[@ryandennison8754]

@@dubemudeze8156 I mean I was sort of spoiled by people as I was playing because they were saying “you killed someone! Now you won’t get the best ending!” but I just kinda steered clear of Undertale stuff out of disinterest before finally trying it out for itself. It paid off because, well… I fucking love this game now. :3

[@BoltUnagi]

I was never interested in Undertale. If people like the game? Fine I'm glad that you liked it. Just don't ask me why? Because here is why. It's not because of the fan base or the haters. It's because this game doesn't appeal to me. If anyone in the comments love it? good. I won't hate you for that. I respect your opinions. Will I play this game in the future? Maybe someday but not right now.

[@lucasmartinez5703]

You're one of the good ones.

[@dreamlandkirby6422]

Oh finally a respectable comment.

[@protontoad]

Beautiful. I'm in love with this comment. I like the game, but I respect those who don't like it because it isn't for everyone. What I don't respect is being treated like shit for liking a game.

[@dreamlandkirby6422]

OnnerbLeakcim Well different people have different tastes in video games I suppose

[@ThunderDragonRandy]

Took me a while until late January 2016 until I got into it. Bought the game and soundtrack on February 2016. I sometimes get into trends pretty late since I wouldn't be interested or know about it when they first come out until I realize how popular they get (but after when it's too late).

[@MrSupahLink]

The thing about Undertale I enjoyed most, was the soundtrack.

[@Ikcatcher]

Oh hell yeah

[@thesaucypickle9866]

why It's not exceptional and EVERYONE praises it it honestly feels out of place in the game and it takes me out of the experience even more for A game I already tire of playing

[@MrSupahLink]

TheSaucyPickle Because it's really catchy and atmospheric. It never felt out of place for me.

[@thesaucypickle9866]

Lord Raven I hate when people bring up catchy that's nothing to do with the song and is entirely subjective everyone gives the sound track such high praise but I don't see the appeal it's short melodies on repeat essentially idk I get reall anal about songs and soundtracks

[@Nice-hg6mq]

I agree even though its mostly 4 or 5 songs remixed into different tunes.

[@UncleSilverGaming]

I see a lot of people complaining about the Undertale fanbase, but in my experience, this is the same situation as the Twilight fanbase. The diehards can be annoying, but I'm WAY more annoyed by the people who won't stop bitching about the fanbase.

[@niiinjaaaaa]

I see more comments like this than I've found actual comments hating on the game.

[@ThisNameIsG]

+The Ninjadillo You must have not looked very hard, in that case

[@niiinjaaaaa]

ThisNameIsG Could say the same to you.

[@DeMomcalypseLive]

UncleSilver Gaming Well I guess the argument there is, the Twilight fan base are die hard fans of something that's not good?

[@AnthonyKusanagi101]

Hey me too.

[@AdamDampOwlPowell]

I absolutely love Undertale, but I have to say I found this review really interesting. Doesn't stop me from enjoying the game, but I felt that Johnny raised some very good points here.

[@ForrestFox626]

I don't think he was trying to get you to hate it.

[@islandboy9381]

He thought the game was pretentious for saying the simple message "your actions have consequences" through the mechanics being not fun (which is subjective) in one route yet those other routes couldn't function the way they did if it weren't for those same mechanics. Bad review.

[@ForrestFox626]

@@islandboy9381 Most people watching beg to differ

[@frederickthegamer3044]

@@islandboy9381 it's more so about how the message is sent but honestly I love Undertale and I respect the review Johnny did but I agree with the genocide run is really boring as fuck ( only for the grinding) I will also so that you should try to redeem yourself even after the genocide run and the neutral run has no difference between the pacifist other then you fight Omega Flowey that's all I will say genocide run is just grinding doesn't become a horror rpg you only get * but nobody came I wish the genocide was more like a horror game where you are the monster this this time

[@islandboy9381]

@@frederickthegamer3044 I should put it this way: think about the experience in every RPG where you grind endlessly so you are overleveled to the point of one shotting everything. Is that fun or interesting in any type of RPG? No it is not its boring and makes you feel hollow. That's exactly the point of genocide that it criticizes of RPG's as a genre: grinding to overlevel is never fun but it incentivizes you to do it cuz of the stat increase feeling addicting for a short moment and that's what being communicated in both the gameplay and narrative. Atleast Undertale gives you some challenging bosses in that grinding to overlevel process unlike other RPG's

[@brazilian_oak]

Someone finally said it: It's good enough. And really, that's what it's, just good enough. Not perfect, not awful.

[@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish]

he loves the pacifist route, dislikes the genocide route and probably doesnt mind the neutral routes. as a cohesive package, yeah it is that, but most are going to play pacifist anyway

[@Underworlder5]

to me it was money well spent. if you go pacifist, you get a nice challenge and the puzzles arent so easy that you can just go through them without thinking, but not so hard that you slam your head on the keyboard. outside the game, i found the characters very interesting and the music gives sonic a run for his money, usually matching the atmosphere very well or just being catchy. the comics and shorts people make also give me some nice entertainment. my biggest problem was the lack of replay value. once you get the perfect ending, there isnt much left to do (the game even discourages you directly)

[@DarkAura19]

Man, I love this game to bits but I am SO Undertale'd out at this point. Regardless, I think your stance on the genocide run is insteresting to say the least and not without merit. All in all I think this pretty much got the reaction I expected out of you... You enjoyed it but you're not fanning yourself in its very presence. Which is honestly refreshing. Also, you leave it to UNDERTALE to finally do a jump scare after you went through every single FNAF game. Funny how that works.

[@stinkylizard]

Well, it's so unexpected in this game.

[@stranker3890]

+Revanaught It is when you're on an iPod where you can't scroll down and it takes ages to lower the volume. I also startle easily so there's that :P

[@beastmonsterthing3]

well, not a lot of time to react. i didnt have my hand on the mouse.

[@gamerplayer8882]

Exactly.

[@KOFUNLOADED]

I don't think he grasped undertale's morality right. There is consequences for doing what you did. It isn't meant to be fun. That's the point. To point out how morbid and sick your curiosity is to just kill everyone out of sheer boredom.

[@android19willpwn]

The main thing I'll say in the favor of how dull it is to do a genocide run (especially in terms of encounter rates) is that it makes it essentially impossible for you to do it by accident. It places a very clear barrier of intention between genocide and just doing a "no mercy" run where you kill everyone you meet, and I feel that's important both from a narrative and gameplay perspective.

[@Mine18x]

It's still possible for you to do it by intention not knowing that it's bad, just like any 'ol rpg, like how DarkSydePhil played it.

[@android19willpwn]

...what? You're literally going out of your way to murder absolutely everything. Like, really really far out of your way. And the *but nobody came message, the change in music, the red-text, the one-shotting Toriel, and the different first encounter with Sans and Papyrus all make it very clear that it's a different rout, and not a very happy one, after the first area.

[@RevolutionaryJoystick]

@modern monika most people would not get to that point. Every time you kill an enemy the wait between the next one becomes longer and longer. So long to the point where anyone who doesn't know the genocide run exists will stop because they would just assume there are no more monsters.

[@FLXEP]

@@android19willpwn I managed to avoid any spoiler in my first playthrough and accidentally triggering Genocide route cause how I usually play RPG by grinding so I don't get fucked in boss battle. Glad I'm stuck on Undyne battle and decided to read some walkthrough that make me aware of kill/spare mechanic.

[@android19willpwn]

@@FLXEP so what was going through your head while you were clearing out the last of Snowdin, wandering around an empty area for like 10 minutes straight inbetween encounters? Especially given that you had one-shot the first boss by that point?

[@ThatOneShyguyVideos]

It's a good game but I'm sick of hearing about it.

[@benlink202forever]

Dat icon doh.

[@KidSnivy69]

Then don't click on a video about it

[@TheSilverLeaf79]

Is your profile picture Mr.Fox from Fantastic Mr.Fox?

[@ThatOneShyguyVideos]

KidSnivy69 Love Johnny's videos gotta support the man with my likes :D

[@ThatOneShyguyVideos]

Poliswag Sure is.

[@TheKsalad]

I want that Shantae t-shirt

[@DavCube]

That avatar fits that statement so well.

[@noahpage6459]

No matter what people think about Undertale nobody can disagree that this soundtrack is perfect especially with creating the proper mood for each situation (probably why the game never leaves my mind).

[@GrammarNaziAUS]

And that asshole is me. While the soundtrack is good, I personally feel it's more of a background to the game and doesn't really add much than atmosphere. I certainly don't notice it unless it's (probably my favourite musical piece) the Game Show music (obviously it's noticeable because it's so loud and obnoxious, therefore the only one I notice is automatically best) and it isn't something I'd listen to in the background. It does what it needs to do and does it well.

[@That_One_Sunshine_Knight]

Honestly it's fine if you don't. Why? You bring up a valid argument. I only like the music to like the music.The only time it feels "Atmospheric" is when you fight Undying, and Sans. Give you the sense of empowerment, be it the enemy being over powered, or your "determination" to fight these two monsters.

[@HatsunThePidgeon1]

But you can though

[@ikagura]

The only thing is that Megalovania is somewhat overrated

[@masterman3349]

+Icare I don't think it is overrated, I think it's overused; and that seems to be the problem.

[@ZeoLightning]

the amount of "undertale fanbase is cancer" comments is more cancerous than the fanbase you're accusing of being cancer

[@garbotoxins840]

nope.

[@CharlesUrban]

If we complain about the complaints about the cancer becoming the cancer, and THAT becomes cancer, can we call it "Canception"?

[@rubenakaskrubby8676]

Yo that's so true xD

[@grandmastertacticianrandy1937]

+Charles Urban could we just CAN it with this?!

[@itsyoast]

We complain about the cancer because it's everywhere on tumblr and has more cringey alternate universes and fanfics than any other fanbase.

[@ChimeratAlpha]

Holy crap. THANK YOU! Thank you for being honest in a review of this bloody game and how heavy-handed it is with its "message" and messing up with your purchase. Tainting it, I believe is how you put it.

[@dabhdude]

*grabs popcorn* Enter the comments section only IF YOU DARE. As for me, though, this is going to be really entertaining.

[@H4NA]

dabhdude nice to see you here

[@omegax45-alexander65]

Oh shoot wad up

[@roboturtle214]

I think I have found the audience I like.

[@Praetorium]

*Grabs reddenbacher Orville popcorn:movie theater butter* good luck newcomers of the comments bar. I'll just take a nice cold Coca-Cola, sit back, and enjoy this little game called comment wars. Lol.

[@Praetorium]

Mmm...tasty. anyone wants some wild Mike's pizza??

[@OneTrueNobody]

Well, this comment section is predictably toxic. Weird how for all the so-called annoying fans of the game there are out there, it's the people who hate the fandom that flood the place with annoying comments. Operating as if managing to out-asshole the assholes of the world proves them to be the bad guys has never worked and it will continue not to work--for anyone or any topic--until the heat-death of the universe silences all assholes forever. Maybe we need a "pretentious" GameMaker game about that.

[@Fxbox920]

i made a comment saying undertale was meh. checked my gmail today and got lots of responses because i said i found it meh for liking rpgs where im allowed to murder without repercussions. which is why im a massive kh fan where its ok to murder everything with a giant key :)

[@OneTrueNobody]

People are just assholes. Being an asshole back only makes them feel justified. Ignore 'em, like trolls.

[@c.j.thescrublord6328]

+The One True Nobody! "some men just want to watch the world burn".

[@GameFreak64101]

you know, why do people make fun of Undertale for being a Gamemaker game, there are plenty of good games that use Gamemaker, like Rivals of Aether and Risk of Rain.

[@GameFreak64101]

It's kinda similar to the Melee and Smash 4 communities, Smash 4 is brought up, Melee fans flood it, and when Melee is brought up, Smash 4 fans flood, both saying, "X community sucks, see look at this" when they dont realize they are just as bad hating the game. It's a good thing I'm a 64 player

[@HistoricaHungarica]

"Undertale? You gotta go blind. No influence from anywhere." Oh Johny. How late you are. At current date EVERYTHING has been spoiled. If you logged in to your facebook since it's release? Tons of spoilers. You went to an anime forum? TONS of shipping AND spoilers. You just searched for a near restaurant on google? Googlemaps showed you a fucking undertale walkthrough.

[@CelibateSaihara]

Remember the top rule about posting in the comment section! DON'T

[@Trebxable]

Post

[@mach6247]

My friend told me when I first got into it was to back yourself up if you ever post a "controversial" or "debatable" comment

[@LegonAvannor]

Or just delete the comment.

[@logasoba]

as in dont. comment. ever.

[@dsmaster7173]

It stands for Dooooooooon't comment, ever.

[@magicdreemurr3771]

The sad thing is, as popular as this game, 95% of its beauty has been overshadowed by two things: 1. Sans - Great for Marketing. Bad everything else. I love Sans as a character, but almost every single person in the Undertale fandom has been led to believe that Sans is some sort of god. They completely overlook the other characters' dialogues after you've reset the game once (not True Reset, just regular Reset). As someone who has played the game multiple times without doing a true reset, I can certainly say Sans is NOT the only character who feels as though he remembers previous timelines. 2. The Fandom itself - the Memes, the false storytelling, the non-canon ships (I AM LOOKING AT YOU PAPYTON SHIPPERS). I respect you guys for wanting to help us keep the game alive, but don't try to make newcomers believe that YOUR version of Undertale is the canon version. I could name a few very obvious incorrect facts that the fandom seems to make: 1. Mettaton's gender (READ THE F**KING DIALOGUE. HE'S A DUDE!!!) 2. Chara is the main antagonist. (Heh. In your dreams, filthy murderers. You're just trying to shove the blame onto this poor kid after they watched you murder everyone they ever loved. Who wouldn't turn insane after seeing that?) 3. Everyone's memories after a normal Reset. (If and when you decide to restart your Undertale file, besides True Reset, the characters actually DO have vague memory of you and your previous encounters. Sans is not the only one who remembers, nor does he completely remember everything from the last timeline. Again, he's not a god, no matter how badly you want him to be.)

[@magicdreemurr3771]

FYI, I'm not against headcanons and the like, but there needs to be a line drawn between canon and "fanon", so as not to destroy expectations from *certain* people.

[@VolvagiasBlaze]

The Undertale community ruined the best part of the game, which is the twist. I´ve seen so many let´s players who start off by saying "people told me to play in pacifist mode" NO, don´t do that. You ruin the experience by telling people *Spoiler starts* that the ending changes depending on if you show mercy or not ^*Spoiler ends*. Just let them go blind, that way the game has a bigger effect on people. It´s like spoiling Bioshock before people play it, sure the game is amazing but the ending isnt as satisfying if you tell everyone the twist.

[@PixelCrabs]

For me, right when I learned you can spare every single monster, that was my mission. So i thoroughly enjoyed the game because there was no spoilers for me.

[@demi-femme4821]

I got spoiled so much before I played, but when I did a run where I chose who to kill and who not to kill, it was still a great narrative. Don't underestimate the game's power to make you form your own narrative.

[@EuroMIX2]

You're right, though I can understand why people might want to encourage Pacifism in the case of Let's Plays because many LPers will only play a game of reasonable length like Undertale once, and may feel "unfulfilled" and confused by the Neutral ending, and be unwilling to play the game again without killing anything if they happened to kill 1 or more Monsters in order to see the True Pacifist ending, which has additional content that watchers tend to enjoy seeing LPers react to.

[@audieorlandolilybassoff4069]

brb off to make an RPG in which the protagonist is a literal cardboard box. Cameo by Solid Snake absolutely necessary.

[@Haesyx]

"I'm gonna base whether I play Undertale or not on Johnny's review!" "If you want play game, don't watch vid." Wat do?

[@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish]

play the demo. it's amazing how many people forget theres a free demo available for three years now

[@dreamlandkirby6422]

You shouldn't base playing the game soley on one opinion anyway.

[@JoSephGD]

ik i'm 4 years late, but he said that it is worth the price of admission beforehand.

[@cazter901]

Theres a demo here you play through the first area.

[@thelastwindwaker7948]

I don't hate it, but I just can't get invested enough in the characters or gameplay. It also doesn't seem to do much with its plot other than throw random signs along the walls for you to read. And if knowing spoilers "ruins" the game for someone... I can't say that's a good mark on a GAME. I also dislike how there's no middle ground between "be a heartless prick who kills everything for no reason" and "Bend over backwards trying to please creatures that want you dead." You CAN defend yourself by injuring them a bit before sparing them, but as we saw with the fight against Toriel, the game will deliberately be a dick to you of you do that. Trying to befriend these creatures seems a little patronizing when they're in the act of trying to murder you.

[@dr6559]

Pretty much what I think. This is partly why I don't want to do a Genocide route- it sounds boring, and the game starts to get its head up its ass.

[@ebtrax4081]

I know I'm late but there is middle ground, it's called a neutral route and it has over 20 different endings. You can spare and kill who you like and it doesn't affect the game that much, I swear no one ever pays attention to the neutral route

[@horusreloaded6387]

@GREENWOLF 1337 i didnt play the game and judging by the comments, games want you to realize that being a saint to evil racist monsters who tries to kill you is the best way. I think i can stand behind that opinion, except the murder part.

[@Praetorium]

Although the game DOES kinda screw you over for being a massive Jack to everyone in the game including sans, I think that this doesn't really deserve that bad of a follow-up game, I think it should be more...enjoyable. nonetheless it is a somewhat good game at times you can finish in about 2 hours nonstop on genocide, but I don't like having to screw it up as soon as I try to attempt it in the actual gameplay. So that being said, it's more of a no on a new sequel, but what would be more effective in a games is Easter eggs, and some achievement items as you play the actual game whole way through. Now as a usual gamer I wouldn't have this problem at all, but with the release of deltarune, just a couple years after undertale was released, I think it should get a little bit of praise for effort. And that's all I can basically say about it. And no I don't plan on replaying it anytime soon. But that's just my own words. Judge me if you like, but at least give it credit for trying.

[@concrawcrawfish9114]

so is Lisa next

[@Melkac]

Hopefully.

[@SourTb]

I would really enJOY a video about Lisa

[@isaacargesmith8217]

He'll get a kick a joy out of it.

[@louiesalmon3932]

I played lisa right after undertale, and was super disappointed by how little it reacted to player input as opposed to undertale. It was a more solid RPG mechanic-wise though, with the whole party system and how that plays out.

[@isaacargesmith8217]

Levi Sullivan To be fair Undertale's sorta unfair to compare it to due to just how much polish and content UT has in comparison. Lisa is one of the best RPG Maker games though so there's that at least.

[@Bboy10110]

Is it just me or does it seem that most of the hate for undertale is simply because of the fanbase.

[@Mariodash23]

That's just some people do whenever anything gets popular. They blame those who enjoy the thing when they could just hate the thing and not harm those who enjoy it.

[@themariomedic8753]

That's why. The fandom is the main reason why a lot of people don't like Undertale. The fandom is completely cancerous. It is a good game yes. I hate Undertale myself. The only reason I have Undertale videos is because of my friend. It's the fandom. They are completely invasive! As a MAJOR Mother fan, it gets annoying seeing Undertale everywhere in the Mother community. If you say 1 simple bad thing about Undertale, the fandom will TEAR YOU APART! They need to seriously calm the fuck down.

[@Bboy10110]

Yeah but I don't think you should hate something because of what other people do about it. If people who liked computers where that annoying all the time would you throw you computer away, or hate it.

[@themariomedic8753]

+Ironic Bonds Well tell them to back the fuck up

[@yukariyakumo5066]

No, I find this game not very good before the fanbase starts to annoy everyone

[@Chourtaird1]

My main problem is that to get the best ending you have to be a bit too pacifistic and to get the worst ending you have to be a bit too aggressive. Yes, I get what they are going for but a %-of-kills=ending similar to what Dishonoured did is more forgiving and better for both extreme routes.

[@glenndeH]

All FNaF games - jumpscare free Undertale - Jumpscare Johnny logic ;)

[@Miisee]

Can you guys give the Undertale Fanbase a break? I know you guys don't like the Fanbase, but could you at least be a little nicer. It's just a Video Game. And it's just a Fanbase. Every Fanbase has its bad places. So could you just chill? Jesus...

[@Cuy_King]

no

[@Miisee]

+adrian caballero -_-

[@gabegriffin5984]

i really dont understand why its so hard for everyone to get fanbases are usually just "mad raving dogs everyone focuses on" and "people who shun those mad raving dogs but are ignored to prove the fanbase is garbage"

[@ScarletStarManor]

When people get like this, they are just going to continue to be assholes, I'm in the same camp as you right now to be honest.

[@Dogan_TM]

Can the Undertale fanbase give the internet a break?

[@chrisaguilar652]

Good thing I came in before all the cringy kids came

[@screamsofpasssion1065]

I know right?!

[@samholik8127]

Give it a day or two

[@ProphecyPhrase]

LOL Same

[@datanotfoundpleasetryagain3559]

Scout: *taps your head lightly with a baseball bat* Yo, what's up?

[@soranortthirteen561]

Thank god for notifications. Can't stand the fanbase.

[@AlvinEarthworm]

Is it strange to say that I really like the game, despite the fact I have NEVER played it? I dunno, the bullet Hell stuff just looked really aggravating to me. I was never into games like Ikaruga and all that. I got my fill by watching playthroughs on KZbin.

[@YellowDice]

I spoiled myself about the game before playing just to get the best ending and the bullet hell is not that hard, I'm playing through super mario sunshine now (using dolphin emulator) and its harder than anything undertale can throw at you I had to resort to infinite lives lol.

[@Dulcestratus]

It's not strange, because most undertale fans haven't played it either, they just watch *insert popular youtuber here* and never bought it themselves, or at least a portion of the fans have.

[@lucasmartinez5703]

I've never played it and I'm a big fan. So you're not alone.

[@ZapWires]

+ShadeUsher Wow, can't some people just enjoy something in an alternate way? Let people like things in a fashion they chose!

[@sonario6489]

*gasp* Never thought I'd see Alvin commenting on a video from someone Im subbed to

[@KairuHakubi]

I think there may have been a point missed about the overall meta stuff being the reason for genocide being so punishing. this is a game whose demo actually had the _instruction manual_ change depending how you played.

[@OneTrueNobody]

On the subject of the review itself: I enjoyed this, John. As usual, you manage to be balanced and entertaining at he same time. Although there is one minor bit of meta humor in the genocide run I'm surprised you didn't mention: "running in circles until you get to the next area" pretty much sums up retro RPG grinding, although that's more of a factor in NES-era RPGs like Phantasy Star 1 and (I would imagine) Dragon Quest. And Pokemon, I suppose, albeit for different reasons. I certainly spent a large chunk of Final Fantasy VII running in circles to grind up my Materia, too. It's a dull, sardonic kind of humor, but that's because it was boring when we did it in those games, too.

[@CuppaGi]

I really think the grinding portion of Genocide runs is meant to be boring. It wants you to sit there and think "I'm literally spending hours killing everything just to see what it has to offer", which is pretty fucked up if you think of the game world as a living, breathing world. You're committing genocide just to see what happens.

[@shahiranzaman2259]

But in the end of the day, it's still a video game, which is meant to be fun. Not tedious

[@NightClubSamurai]

it's no different then running around a patch of grass grinding exp while you wait for one of the super low encounters in any other rpg, expect that undertale lets you know when to move on to the next area

[@akibasouma]

just because something is bad on purpose, it does not make it good

[@jsh357]

I totally agree with you, and people who make arguments that games 'have to be fun' or something are basically showing ignorance about the bigger picture of literature. I would argue even Johnny did in this video. I'm not saying it makes someone a bad person or an idiot or anything, just that they are missing the point. A work can be great without being 'fun' the entire way through. Some of the most enduring, moving stories of all time are tragedies. Undertale's geoncide path is essentially a tragedy presented in an interactive medium. If you choose to limit the appeal of games to 'something I do to have fun,' you are reinforcing one of the reasons people who dislike video games see the medium as a distraction for children that can never aspire beyond that. Undertale makes you reflect on your actions in a way other games do not because they do not want to compromise the one emotional/reader response they think games are capable of producing (fun); whether you had fun or not is irrelevant. The game succeeded in presenting a tragedy that provoked a unique response in people that understood it, and the greatest thing about it is Fox used the medium of games in a way unique to any other medium the story could have been presented in. This is one of the coolest things about Undertale, and I find it sad that so many are quick to criticize it for infantile reasons without considering the greater implications.

[@philcarpal3926]

Finally, a review of Undertale that's actually critical most reviews of it boil down to "BEST GAME 10/10"

[@mikhailmcmorrow6440]

Revisiting this video 2 years later, it's kinda weird how this video stands up and, in some ways, is made even better with time, it's like a fine wine.

[@ACFan120]

The one thing that I didnt like about Undertale is that all the monsters, even the Spoiler Monster at the end of the Pacifist Run, act like they're all good natured when they're all trying to kill you through the whole game. No to mention the constant "humans are evil" message they keep tossing around for most of the game. As much as I like Undertale, it feels real unfair and makes most characters kinda dickish cause of their assumptions of you.

[@Roler42]

Well, the main reason they're trying to kill you is because you're a human, and they want your soul, wich is dumb indeed, specially in the genocide route where monsters eventually leave you alone completely, lol

[@fernandobanda5734]

The monsters are not trying to kill you on purpose (ok, most of them). The bullet hell parts seem to be some sort of instictual defense mechanism / passive damage, although I'm not sure where I read that. Note that many monsters have green shapes that heal you, which isn't on purpose either. Now, I don't think the "humans are evil" message should be perceived as unfair. Remember that when we hear the word 'monster', we have a lot of assumptions as well. Plus the whole "you encounter monsters so you have to kill them" mentality that we get from RPGs. In a way, prejudice drives a lot of the game's narrative, so it makes a lot of sense. They are not trying to insult you as a player for being evil until you do start killing.

[@TheRealNeonwarrior]

It's a villain's nature to act like they're in the right and you're in the wrong. And considering that your race decimated and sealed off their race, not to mention still technically being at war, I think it makes sense that some of the monsters attack you. But you get to prove all of the monsters wrong and literally befriend the very same monsters that had those assumptions about you. That's part of the appeal.

[@TheRealNeonwarrior]

There was one point in the game where a monster talks about giving a "bullet hell style birthday card" or something like that. That makes me think that monsters throw magic at each other as a form of greeting lol

[@prgreeneyes]

They aren't meaning to attack you... have you played the game? It's explain that's how monsters express themselves. It's just harmful tp humans which monsters don't know. They aren't trying to hurt you... expect Undyne, Asgore, and ect. (Fun fact, Papyrus will NEVER kill you while Toriel can. In fact when she does she looks horrified for a single frame before the screen goes black)

[@deadmeme4276]

I regret naming myself papyrus, the fan base got cancerous really fast

[@failbird105]

Yeah, I think it came from the horror youtubers, not intentionally, but because a lot of their fans come from the bad parts of the creepypasta fandom, aka the parts that want to have happy romantic/steamy sexual relationships with the various murderers and monster that they read and write about. Then THOSE people got dragged into FNAF, and then proceeded to make Scott into their game slave for a while until p he managed to make FNAF world, then they got cocky, so when Undertale came out they thought they could do the same here, luckily for Toby, he has other things to do and didn't get drawn into the trap like Scott did

[@BG_MONKY]

then just change your name.

[@CatGoomba64]

You can always change your name

[@isaacargesmith8217]

Actually it also has to do with the fact that the initial fanbase was mostly composed of homestuck fans.

[@johnkramer2144]

I like how they automatically are an asshole. Is anyone safe from the cancerous side of UnderTale fans?

[@xXTrigantXx]

Yeah, the guilt-tripping kinda tainted the No Mercy run. My personal rule of thumb: LISA The Painful is a better No Mercy Run. But thats personal preference. Great vid!

[@acceptnosubstitutions4353]

Actually went and replayed it after his MOTHER 3 review and I have to agree, It helps that Lisa's combat is a bit better.

[@android19willpwn]

well, it taints the Genocide run. A "no mercy" run, as defined by just killing everybody you meet, has basically no guilt-tripping. Except when people get mad that you killed their friends/family on rare occasion. Because that does tend to happen when you kill someone's friends/family.

[@ProfessionalBadPerson]

I'm happy I went in blind.

[@rabbidguy5]

pirate it yo, i seriously recommend it

[@AlexThat200]

I only knew about the whole consequence of genocide. The real selling point was because of the "two hardest fights in the game". And me being the guy that hates difficult games said "fuck that, I'll do Pacifist and see what I get".

[@ryandennison8754]

Me too!!

[@OniFox]

Thank GOD I'm not the only one who thinks Genocide is boring as fuck!

[@cantthinkofbettername5065]

The bosses were fun, but that's about it.

[@OniFox]

No I will never call Sans a fun boss. Undyne the Undying was fun yes, but I cannot stand Sans. I'm kind of the opposite from Johnny, cause if something in a game outright pisses me off, or the game itself pisses me off, chances are I will hate it. This is the reason why I hate Sans, Mega Man 9, The bad level design in X8, and the 4th boss in Ristar. I'd like to point out that excluding Mega Man 9, I love all those games that I mentioned in there.

[@newtonjar]

I don't think the genocide route is really intended to be fun. the game does its literal best to get you to avoid it. like really though. also sans is designed to not be fair at all so that even the best bullet hell players at least die once. it fits with the theme of the story.

[@OniFox]

newtonjar Oh don't get me wrong, the Genocide Route does what it's suppose to do, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I will still say that Undyne the Undying is the best boss battle in the game however. I had a lot of fun fighting her, even if getting to her is a tedious process.

[@nopepatrol7984]

well if it's hard as shit,that's fine,but in a certain sense extremely hard games do have a charm,like hotline miami (although I still am not a fan of genocide.

[@HectorGonzalez-qx9nk]

Thank you, John, for convincing me not to spend money on this game. Why? Well, exactly what he mentioned: pretentiousness. If I'm to pull from John's Metal Gear marathon, doing whatever you want when it comes to stealth or combat is somewhat similar but not pretentious. You'll get less rewards for going insane with the kills, but Kojima didn't say fuck you and kill all the fun in your next playthroughs. And cool, character development can be a cool idea to break the mold, but it sounds more tedious like the encounter rates in Pokémon rather than fulfilling.

[@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish]

that's funny because metal gear is often the height of pretentiousness with how often kojima is thrown around. not saying metal gear is bad, but yeah

[@UndertakerU2ber]

Not only that, but I've also like how high the replayability the MGS games had where I could repeat sections and find multiple routes and solutions to get past guards. Undertale is shallow and two dimensional where it's just be nice, or kill. Oh, and if you choose kill, you get your save file ruined and get condescendingly talked down to throughout the entire experience because you wanted to kill fictional creatures with cardboard personalities.

[@Superflaming85]

+FastFlyerJr Metal Gear doesn't let its pretentiousness get in the way of it being a good game. With Undertale, Johnny says it does.

[@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish]

Superflaming85 "Metal Gear doesn't let its pretentiousness get in the way of it being a good game" oh boy political message political message hammy writing political message severely overthrown political message

[@aizeroth8858]

Undertale punishes you ONLY if you kill everyone. Leave even 1 character or random encounter enemy alive and you get the normal ending. Which is really likely for you to do on your first playthrough unless you were planning from the beginning to do genocide.

[@enman009]

After 6 years, I really appreciate your input about this game. It's easy to be swarmed in praise while omitting the many flaws this great game has. That's something people could learn about indie titles reviews. Thank you for these videos!

[@samiamtheman7379]

Another weird thing I've noticed about Undertale is not only does it tell you to not experience all it has to offer, but it also tells you not to do a second playthrough.

[@DavCube]

That ending. You can tell that Fox was all about the creepypastas too.

[@LazyEye513]

...Pretty sure everyone can chill out here. If you like Undertale, hey man, congrats. If you hate Undertale or you think it's a shitty game, hey, I disagree but that's fine too. But lets not club each other to death about this right? We must stand UNITED as gamers! And NOT be divided! Who's with meh?! :D

[@yukiikuy8456]

cringey you could just leave and not comment at all

[@LazyEye513]

Yuki Ikuy I could. But hey, I'd rather stay :D

[@protontoad]

Definitely! The game isn't for everyone, and the people who like the game for just the game, aren't bad! Gamers unite!

[@LazyEye513]

Proton Toad Finally! Someone who understands!

[@brandontherabboat4850]

LazyEye513 HELL YEAH!

[@DrPepperDERF]

Personally one of my favorite game's of the past few years, glad to see you tackle it with a mature, non-biased, review and not being discouraged by the cancerous fan base.

[@isenokami7810]

"...people who won't consider doing a no mercy run because they refuse to hurt these characters they've grown to love in earlier runthroughs." Yep, right here. Hell, I don't even want to reset. I got those guys to the surface, I'm not taking that away from them.

[@gloomyeyes1527]

Is it concerning that the jumpscare at the end still managed to scare me even though i totally saw it coming?

[@SolarYoshi]

Everytime I watch an Undertale video I just get super depressed since I didn't get to playthrough it blind ;_; Watching videos of genocide neutral and pacifist endings before playing it is probably one of the biggest mistakes I've made in the entirety of my life.

[@benlink202forever]

It doesn't really matter. If you watched it then you know what happens and that's all.

[@SolarYoshi]

I disagree. When I play through games blind, I have my own mindset and won't know what happens. Watching the final boss without knowing what happens before that ruins the experience entirely. I mean maybe you're right but I just feel sad that I missed out on playing the game for myself.

[@sonicheroesfan1]

It does matter. In games like these, every single thing is an experience. Every single moment could be different from any other, your actions, the discovers, the little things, the little jokes, if you saw something instead of experiencing it, it IS different. That's why there are quite a lot of Undertale blind playthroughs being uploaded (even now) to KZbin, because the blind experience is relevant, and people tend to watch these a lot. Now that applies if you are watching a Neutral or Pacifist let's play and you haven't played it, but if you HAVE played it already and are watching a Genocide because you don't want to kill them,... that's even kinda okay, the shock factor is still there. And there's this moment which would affect you even more if you didn't actually play it and watched it online.

[@benlink202forever]

I'm saying that it doesn't matter because you already watched someone play it. You can't have the best experience with the game now because you already saw it before actually playing it. I'm technically agreeing with both of you. So please don't take my comment the wrong way.

[@SolarYoshi]

+Ben Link oh shit. My bad LOL sorry about that. Guess my comment is meaningless cause I'm too fucking stupid to read correctly lmao

[@587DeathKing]

A jumpscare in Undertale but not FNAF...huh

[@joshuaanderson2788]

I kind of wanna see Johnny going against Chara he could be the next antagonist to replace tails doll.

[@zoroarkdx4491]

Or the villain behind the scenes manipulating Tails' Doll and other events to get at Johnny himself.

[@ladylilith6495]

Or maybe just Tails Doll's motivation for going after Johnny so much.

[@cryotheotter4411]

Nah. Tails doll is the ultimate SCMJ villain.

[@sonicmastersword8080]

+Cryo The otter Agreed. Unless Kefka can come and takeover. That would be interesting.

[@joshuaanderson2788]

SonicMaster Sword The thing that's funny about Tails doll is that Tails doll was never a villain to begin with it was just creepy to a lot of people

[@TheScepter25]

Wait so let me get this straight. If you do genocide run, you can never do the true ending?

[@adamdostie4483]

If you mess around with your files you can "uncorrupt" your file so to speak. It isn't even that hard to do.

[@TheScepter25]

***** wow i thought if u completed genocide run u could just restart make a new game and get the best ending again

[@lucasmartinez5703]

You can. The ending is just tainted because you sold your soul.

[@lucasmartinez5703]

Well it's not like that came out of nowhere. You kill everyone, you sell your soul, Chara can do whatever he wants (and what he wants is NOT good at all). The game itself doesn't change. Just how it ends.

[@YuNarukamiBrakeAnimalplz]

The problem is not whether it is easy to solve or not,it is the fact that it is a bad game design choice.

[@d4c_reznor470]

Sans is not Ness

[@gringodile]

The people that are quick to talk about how "ehhhh it's alright but overrated and the fanbase is annoying" annoy me more than the actual fanbase.

[@thebluevoid]

the fanbase has calmed down somewhat recently, but a couple months ago they both annoyed me just as much as the other.

[@primetime_al822]

That's like the most neutral opinion one could have on the game.

[@NintendoFan7141]

Its true though, although I'd say the game is good rather than alright, but it is overrated nonetheless and the fanbase is as bad as FNAF's fanbase.

[@gringodile]

Well I mean I love the game but I'm fine with someone not caring for it. I just find it both hilarious and annoying that there's many scores of people online who treat it like a holy crusade to go around trying to explain why the game is "average at best" to people who liked it.

[@557deadpool]

but the game is overrated. Yeah the morality system is cool but the implementation was ass and the constant nagging from the game and overall pretentiousness ruins it completely.

[@CrimsonAcesChannel]

I did not go into Undertale blind, had most of it spoiled and honestly I didn't mind, I enjoyed what I got for what it was non the less

[@CometX-ing]

I'm just gonna outright say I don't like the game. Deconstruction of gaming tropes and stuff if nice and all but this game is just really lack luster in the gameplay department. And that whole, you play Undertale to experience the world and characters line of thinking isn't gonna work because a game can be both fun and have a great world. Here it's just sub par bullet hell mixed with boring RPG style gameplay. If you wanna make a world with interesting and fun characters, write a book.

[@Roler42]

Half-life, the final fantasy series, Metroid, Fallout, Resident Evil, Metal gear, and many other game series beg to differ

[@CometX-ing]

***** Those games are more interesting game play wise though.

[@Dogan_TM]

Oh yes, the deep story of Metroid and Resident Evil.

[@Roler42]

CometX-ing And that somehow cancells out the interesting worlds and characters the've built over the years because...?

[@CometX-ing]

***** If you read my comment you would realize that I said a game can have an interesting world and have interesting gameplay. Undertale lacks the latter.

[@aurarus]

There's a neutral ending The Genocide run is deliberate. That's the point. No one opts to do genocide run first and "misses out on all the fun and has to put up with the boring bits." The idea is that you finished the good run, felt that nagging feeling to see all the other options, deleted all your progress, and really grinded away at that alternate fucked up path. The point is that the game is making commentary on the completionist trope in gamers; the need to do and see EVERY path, no matter how fucked up it is. We will put up with immense tedium and barriers (moral and skill based) just to go through with it. And the difference on the ending is tiny. Everything is identical except the last 3 seconds, which simply hints at things being fucked up. It's telling you that what you did has repercussions- the attitude of you complaining about it not being fair is literally what the game is making commentary on.

[@kylele23]

Still, it nags at you all the time about it, through the ENTIRE playthrough. Every single encounter with a character results to "Hey, what you're doing is a pretty bad thing, don't cha know?" Even when you're nearly done with the game and destroying Mettaton. It's already too late, you're already invested in becoming the bad guy, so the game should stop trying to say "Did you know you're a bad guy?" As you stab Asgore in the chest. It's only when you're fighting Sans that he actively says "Alright, you're a bad guy" and immediately tries to kill you and hates you the entire time. YES. Now THAT is what I expected from the evil route: being treated straight up like a villain instead of "oh he's just misguided." Much better than Undyne's "All the people you killed, blood/dust is on your hands, I can feel the power and they hate you, blah blah blah, I'll strike you down" Too bad the Sans fight is at the end of the entire route, but it's the most well implemented part.

[@niiinjaaaaa]

I play video games to have fun. Making part of a game intentionally boring, regardless of the ethics behind it (Again, this is a *video game*) is just bad game design. Undertale's main draw is its morality system. When only 2 of the 3 routes are enjoyable, there is a legitimate problem.

[@darkchaos1542]

If you make part of a game deliberately boring, it's still boring. Is it worth making that part of the game deliberately boring in order to send create something else, a feeling? Some would say yes, many however would say no, including Johnny, and I'm gonna have to agree with him on that one. I see it as bad game design, intentional or no. I would also argue that his criticism of the game regarding it's endings is fair. The difference may seem small, but it's really not given the context. Why would you do that to a player? It's comparable to those browser games where if you die once, you can never play again on the same computer unless you do some technical stuff to trick the game.

[@android19willpwn]

+DarkChaos the content locked behind the deliberately boring part of Undertale is honestly pretty minor in scale, and not at all required to enjoy your experience with the game. The pacifist and neutral runs are a very content-complete experience, so I'm fine with a few scraps of content being added behind a wall of disinterest to create an additional narrative which itself is interesting and very meta. And no. It's not comparable to a browser game where if you die once you can never play again. Because you don't die on purpose. The whole reason the genocide run is so boring is so that you'll only get it if you're REALLY determined to get it. You will NEVER get it without meaning to. And why would you do that to a player? Because Undertale is a game driven by its narrative, and a key part of that narrative is that your ability as the player to save and reset is a part of the in-game world. It makes perfect sense to, given that premise, have consequences which transcend your ability to save and reset. It improves the narrative.

[@darkchaos1542]

Android 19 It's very comparable to a browser game where you can only play it once. Unless you go digging in files you're never meant to, you can never get the true pacifist ending after a genocide run. That's not good game design. Honestly, it doesn't matter how much effort it takes to complete the genocide run here, that's irrelevant. It's boring, it's not fun, and people are free to criticise it for those flaws. If you feel the narrative was worth having that fun removed, you are free to have that opinion, but I and others think it was poor game design, and not worth it just to send that message.

[@MyEcho4]

Alright. Let me get my Safety Gear on, its gonna get messy....

[@MyEcho4]

Never cared for Undertale. Never will.

[@1247theGreatest]

+Blueblur1992 smart man

[@CharlesUrban]

+Blueblur1992 That's your prerogative. I'm a big fan of character-driven stories, so the surplus of awesome characters makes me a big fan of this game. That said, it's not for everyone.

[@MrLuizilla]

Rip in kill Sanic. Killed by rabid fanboys. *cue trumpets*

[@louiesalmon3932]

"Never will" seems a little extreme, but okay.

[@gillythekid]

"Fuck me." - John Ortiz, 2016

[@ty_sylicus]

About 6 years late but I finally experienced this world and really enjoyed it. Such a brilliant little game!

[@cleffei]

OMG WTF WHY DIDN'T YOU TEAR THIS GAME APART?!?!?!?! Seriously though, I'm glad you enjoyed Undertale Johnny. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and more people need to realise that instead of bickering like six-year-olds in comment sections.

[@Focie]

I actually didn't find it to be as pretentious as you make it out to be. The grind for genocide isn't that bad, but then again, I'm the sort of person who doesn't mind grinding too much. You said something along the lines of "if you are going to be sacrificing gameplay to make a story, theb go write a fucking book", and while I see that point, I'd also like to point out that I think games are unique in that WE control it. In a book, you're never in control. In a game, you ARE. Making it shitty as a way to drive home a point is a way to write a story in a way you never could in a non-interactive medium. This is exactly what makes games so unique, and I'd have to say I disagree with you on that one, Johnny. And before people jump on me and say I'm part of the "cancerous" fanbase... I'm not. Undertale is a great game, but it's not the second coming of Christ. I couldn't care less of the fans or fanart or whatever. I just played a game I liked, and I thought I'd offer my own two cents on a point I disagreed with

[@VladNorris]

You haven't read the Great Gatsby then. To make something shitty and annoying to drive a point across is actually common in literature. It also doesn't make it non annoying or anvilicious.

[@Focie]

+VladNorris You are correct. I have not read The Great Gatsby, but if I'm not mistaken, that's the one where they never use the letter E? Or was that Gadsby? Probably the latter, seeing as the former has an E in the title. Anyway, I've read a couple of books where the author writes in a certain way to make the character seem like the character telling the story. One that sticks out in my mind was a book by Erlend Loe (several actually), where the book is written in extremely short and repetitive sentences. This never bothered me, because it's really fitting for the book and the character, but I digress. My point is still that games are unique in that they are interactive, and sometimes a game can be the best medium to get a story across. You don't truly believe that anything a game can convey as a story, a book can do too in the same way? So why limit that to saying "if you want to sacrifice gameplay for story, go write a book"? Mind you.. If you make a game a slog, then there better be a GOOD fucking reason for you to do that. If it drives a point across and helps you connect more with the story, then that sacrifice may actually be worth it. If it did so with undertale or not is ultimately up to you and how you interpret it, but I think it did well, and I don't think I would personally ever feel that guilty if it was in book form. Yes, it was a grind. Yes, it was boring... but the payoff was damn well worth it to me.

[@android19willpwn]

+VladNorris the main difference between literature that's intentionally shitty and annoying and how shitty and annoying getting the genocide rout in Undertale is is choice. In Undertale you choose to go through the shitty and annoying grind when the game offers you every chance to instead have a much more fun experience playing it. With a book the only way to have a much more fun experience is to read a different book. Plus when you read a shitty book, that's what you're doing. When you're grinding in genocide you can have a podcast/audiobook on, have a tv show going on another screen, it's really not so bad.

[@Focie]

Android 19 To be fair, if you need something outside of the game to make the game tolerable, then it may be a fault of the game, but yes. The main point is that you're making a choice. A choice that makes you feel very guilty. You can't really make choices in a book, unless it's a choose your own adventure book...

[@AbsoluTeField]

+Focie I'm weird and like Genocide the most out of any routes in the game, for the same reasons you just mentioned. Maybe it's because I enjoy Undertale less for its mechanics or its humor and more for the meta commentary it provides, but there's just much more interesting things going on there compared to the rest of the game.

[@sterlingmuse5808]

Something I think should be mentioned is how the Genocide route is basically written assuming you played the Neutral and Pacifist routes first. It allows you to skip almost all of the puzzles, most of the bosses are way easier, and the dialogue you are given acts as if you already beat the game and got bored with it. Although you have free choice to do what you want, only diehard level grinders will stumble onto the Genocide route first.

[@doobi6343]

Mother 3 > Undertale = Earthbound = LISA > OFF = Mother 1 > Yume Nikki Prove me wrong.

[@bucket9486]

Mother 1 is better than Yume Nikki? WOOOOOOOW

[@AsecasJavi]

yeah imaginary grandma and space baby are best than crazy stayinmyroomgirl

[@kirbington]

+Jason Kim I found myself thinking that when I was playing Mother 3, but when I went back to Earthbound I was disappointed that it didn't feel like Mother 3

[@AsecasJavi]

Jewell TH ok i'm gonna kill myself right now

[@AsecasJavi]

Jewell TH but I'm dead now, no more jokes for me

[@CrispyBaconYT555]

I hate that I have to be afraid of doing the genocide route due to not being able to get the best ending again. I just want to get the full experience but I guess that's too much to ask. But I suppose that can also be viewed as brilliant, but I think that's taking it a bit to far.

[@DeMomcalypseLive]

PerfectAquatic It is a bit odd that you can play the game in one of three ways (fighting, running away, or mercy), but in all honesty, both the game and fandom encourage you to play the game in one way

[@Gameorama91]

PerfectAquatic I mean, you still CAN do the Pacifist run. and you will get the same ending. it's literally the last couple seconds of the endings that change to signify to you the game still "knows what you did" but what happens is still the same.

[@EuroMIX2]

Adding onto what Gameorama91 said, you can also edit the game files (in the PC version, at least) to remove the "taint" on your save.

[@ForrestFox626]

How does untainting work on consoles?

[@GaoGaiKingTheGreatVA]

PREPARE THE WALL!!!!

[@ikagura]

Making videogames great again

[@SlackerArtist]

*Woomy breathing*

[@thejedisonic67]

Trump mode activated

[@NA-gc9sl]

If by wall, you mean bullet curtain games, then sure.

[@trial_with_an_error9687]

Hold the lines men! HOLD THE LINES!!!

[@That0n3Guy]

The idea that if you do the genocide route first your game is forever tainted is so fucking dumb.

[@ThisNameIsG]

It's not if you do it first, it's if you do it at all.

[@toxicradiation7485]

the genocide does nothing to any other future runs. all it does is it gives you a secret easter egg at the end. nothing changes gameplay wise, nor does any of the story change. all you get is a small easter egg at the very end of a pacifist that doesn't affect anything

[@vunix1234567890]

Bull. It changes both pacifist endings, showing Chara in control and killing all your friends.

[@toxicradiation7485]

Joe Carne dies it affect gameplay? No. Does it look it what you can do in the game? No. Its just an Easter egg, so calm your ass down

[@vunix1234567890]

It is not an easter egg..... easter eggs don't permanently change something within the game for the worst. Stop being a blind-ass fanboy and recognise this is a genuine fault of the game.

[@ChazzzyF]

With regards to Johnny's main point regarding the genocide route, I think that that's one of the main questions we have to ask ourselves as gamers and artists. Should a game be allowed to intentionally sacrifice fun for the sake of narrative? Because that's essentially what genocide run is. It's a boring, unfun experience meant to make the player feel like shit and not have fun for doing something morally wrong. Undertale is trying to ask you, "if you were actually Frisk, and this world was real, are you the kind of person who would only do the pacifist ending, or the kind of person that turns into Flowey?" I think it's brilliant symbolism that naturally extends the distinctions that differentiate interactive media from other media, Johnny might think it oversteps the boundaries of what games are to him, and that's fine. But the question has been posed now. And it's up to us as gamers and artists to try to find an answer.

[@EuroMIX2]

And it's not like Undertale is the be all, end all of moral choices in video games. There are plenty of other games that let you choose to be evil and don't take the same approach as Undertale.

[@theinimitablejora522]

You know what would have been more effective? Making Genocide fun. Think about it: a smooth, varied, fun RPG ride where you have options available like all other RPG's... yet the world around you is the same terrified, desolate place that the route is known for. Then, having the "you're a monster" message ALONGSIDE Sans's pre-existing spiel about "you just want to see everything, but at what cost?" would HAUNT all who dare to play it.

[@ForrestFox626]

I paid money for a fun time, not to be preached at.

[@daniellado2523]

Before anyone says they are sick and tired about hearing about this game, just know that I felt the same way. I wanted the attention of this game to just stop and it was getting insane, until I played the game for myself. I played the game with not much knowledge of what is to come, except for Papyrus, because I knew it was a game that needed that be experienced. I played it in the beginning of January and got it for a bit cheaper. After I played through the game, twice, I can safely say that it has become in my top favorite games next to Earthbound. Even if the fanbase is horrible, even if you had the game spoiled somehow, you just need to understand how magnificent the game is. Maybe one day you guys will play it yourself and understand why we should have more games that has such creativity and emotions such as one like this.

[@adamdostie4483]

Thoughts on Neutral pacifist/ True pacifist routes: Great characters, Great story arch's, Great soundtrack, Great everything. Sparing monsters through the act command is the only time I have ever seen a game make a game mechanic part of the story and it actually be good. The bullet hell is fun and can actually get a bit tricky at times. Also I like to look at it like this. Frisk isn't just a representation of the player, Frisk IS the player, while Chara represents the player's inner completionist making them kill characters they've grown to love. Speaking of which... Thoughts on Genocide route: The fact that toby went out of his way to make the genocide route as un fun as possible is just straight up bullshit. And don't give the story excuse either, because the fact of the matter is, this is a VIDEO GAME. Emphasis on the word game. If the game isn't fun, you have FAILED as a game developer. You wanna know a simple solution? Make the genocide route fun, and then have flowey, sans, and Chara periodically remind you that you the player are having fun committing genocide on dozens of lovable characters and creatures. Not only would this be just as effective as the whole "you are killing out of curiosity" message, but it would also make the genocide route fun to replay. Heck they could keep the curiosity message alongside what i suggested (Just tone it down a little bit, no need to tell us so often). But as it stands, half of the game is fun (pacifist), and the other half is piss boring (genocide). Also before people start shitting on me, I have NO problem with the genocide route story, and the messages that it conveys. The character interactions are still interesting and you even learn a few plot details not discovered in the other routes. The themes presented are also fine as is but need to be toned down a notch. Also I would bitch about the corrupted save file thing but fixing it isn't that hard so its not too big a deal. What I will bitch about is the mettaton fight, where even if you kill her there's still a chance that you fucked up the run, potentially meaning you have to start the entire run over again. NOT COOL.

[@milamilovic7124]

"using the child as your VESSEL---sorry that sounded a bit demonic" I burst out laughing at that moment. XD

[@icarusben4633]

Great review, Johnny, but... um... Plot analysis. You forgot it.

[@snoopsq.527]

He’s not the type to look super deep into a game’s plot. He pointed that out during his Metal Gear Marathon.

[@armyidiot]

@@snoopsq.527 I think what's meant is that Johnny didn't even cover the plot. The video is obviously made for others who have played Undertale, but there isn't even a basic summary if the plot.

[@whollyrooted]

i will never do the genocide route, i just dont have the heart to kill papyrus ;_;

[@seizurebee6308]

I can't stand the thought to kill anybody. Especially not Whimsun

[@whollyrooted]

The Great Gamer same i just cant kill any of the characters.

[@Tyzak]

I played two genocide runs... I don't know why I subjected my self to it twice.

[@bailey3691]

+TyXak 2 of the best bosses?

[@Tyzak]

Bailey Jackson Two genocide runs. I hated it the first time, I have no clue why I did it again

[@RandomRon005]

Everybody's arguing about Undertale in the comments. Me? I'm just sitting here with a bag of popcorn reading them.

[@AsecasJavi]

I should buy popcorn too that's a great idea

[@kylele23]

+1.

[@toast8993]

We should look in the FNAF video comments after this

[@RadaxianShuffle]

+MrPedøButtCakes That's more than enough. I got me a bag of chips.

[@Karleetoh]

maybe a bit more

[@glump7744]

I hate when people judge the game based on it's fans. Creators have no control over what ends up on rule 34.

[@Birdyboys]

“Using the child as your vessel… sorry that sounded a bit demonic” unintentional foreshadowing lol

[@Talkingrain]

And the comments are going to be filled with both fanboys and haters of this game. They shall be fighting for probably the next couple of days. So get some popcorn and get ready this is going to be a shitstorm.

[@benlink202forever]

I love watching all of this unfold. It's like watching a hydraulic press channel video. Everybody's hopes and dreams get crushed.

[@FlowerEmblem]

I say we ship them in an arranged marriage

[@eap415]

Haven't seen a single shitstorm yet, As far as Undertale is concerned it's one of the nicer fanbases in years and they take criticism surprisingly well even towards people who explicitly hate the game.

[@KOFUNLOADED]

I haven't seen anything honesty. Undertale really isn't too bad when it comes to rabid fanboys.

[@benlink202forever]

Supernova15 Well I've never had experience with one hardcore fanboy yet. So who knows.

[@horricule451]

Most of this review is good, but "if you want to harm the gameplay to enhance the story, you should write a book instead" is something I can't agree with you on. Video games have a lot of story telling methods that books don't. The ability to show what characters and settings look like, to show what's going on, the player having a degree of control over what's happening, adding music to change the mood, how the gameplay makes the player feel, etc. Just like how books have storytelling techniques that video games don't, and movies have storytelling techniques that books and video games don't, and so on. Every artistic medium has its own way of constructing narratives and you can't just put one story in another medium and expect it to automatically work. Most adaptations have to make several compromises, and artists can't just jump into another medium they aren't skilled at and expect to make something great. So when you see a game developer using a storytelling technique that can only be done in a video game, saying that they should've written a book instead comes across as pretty close-minded. If you don't like games that emphasize story over gameplay than that's perfectly ok, but that's a personal preference and it's odd to expect all video games to align with that preference. The much better criticism of undertale corrupting your game after the genocide route is that it's kinda pretentious

[@weirdotzero7065]

Pretty much sums up what I was going to say. And at least it seems the save corruption issue was at least addressed on console versions by simply deleting your save slot, and, from what I heard, Deltarune(I haven't played it yet, just finished playing through Undertale for the first time today) does fix this by getting rid of it entirely and giving you multiple save slots to try out the different ways to play.

[@AdmiralOctopus]

So, Johnny, if you had to find a certain number of enemies instead of waiting for a certain amount of random encounters, would that make the Genocide route more interesting to you?

[@spinyjustspiny3289]

The main theme of a Genocide run is less "Doing something because it's fun" and more "Doing something because you can." Genocide runs aren't just a deconstruction of killing everything in an RPG, they're specifically a deconstruction of grindfests. It is exclusively made of the least fun part of the game, and the only reason you'd ever want to do it is that it's necessary to progress (Which isn't actually the case here), or because you just want to be as high a level as possible so that nothing is a challenge and you can see the rest of the game without much trouble. And boy howdy do you have NO fucking trouble for the most part. considering there's only two bosses in the game who do jack shit and one of them only accomplishes this by actively making it so your stats don't matter to them. So if you're wondering why it isn't fun, that's why. It's a storyline literally built around grinding for no reason other than you want to be max level.

[@Ritokure]

^ This. It's perfectly understandable WHY it's made miserable, but why does it exists if the point is that it's not intended to be explored? If it's trying to make a "point", well I too can kick people in the balls and make a "point" out of it, but it still won't be a good experience. And the time and effort could be used to make the gameplay of the Pacifist run a bit less repetitive instead, 'cuz boy if this game wasn't so short, doing the 2nd run (since the 1st is intended to be be Neutral and 2nd Pacifist, unless you got spoiled on the game) would be a chore.

[@Lurmmings]

@@Ritokure Okay, 8 months late and likely pointless, but it exists despite the point being not to explore it BECAUSE if it didn't exist the point wouldn't exist, like, in the above example, you wouldn't be morally correct for NOT kicking people in the balls if the foot and the balls didn't exist, for a positive moral choice to exist there needs to be a negative equivalent.

[@SirAsdf]

You know I'm seeing lots of comments saying this comment section is going to become pure cancer and not many Undertale fans actually complaining about the review.

[@That_One_Sunshine_Knight]

Oh yeah. This comment section has become quite the cesspit.

[@luiszapata3897]

My Opinion on Undertale: It's not my thing. I can see how the fans can enjoy it and how people really get a kick out of it but for me and a lot of it people, it doesn't do much for us. It terms of gameplay, it's alright. It terms of story, it's a meh for me. The characters were good but it really ended with the games morals. I thought that the concept was good, this idea of playing through an rpg without killing little to none of the characters. And the game trying to tell you that it's wrong to kill senselessly. But the game really becomes full of itself with this message. I know the point is to not kill anyone but what if I want to see everything the game offers. I ask to my friends this: if the games point was to not kill anyone, then why give me the choice. Also why prevent me from getting the best ending because I made a choice the game offered me. That's about it though. To both haters and lovers of Undertale, just calm down and discuss your opinion without being an asshole.

[@luiszapata3897]

Quick note: If anyone disagrees with me on my opinion, just reply. I'd actually really love to read what you think.

[@luiszapata3897]

+Jewell TH Thank You. Yeah I mean if anyone has a different view, I'd actually like to see it. Cause after all, it's just my opinion not a fact. If someone disagrees, that's fine. They found enjoyment in something where I couldn't.

[@erikstensaas1202]

If this game didn't force you into doing certain things to make sure you stay on the path your on or make it possible to get all the endings regardless, I'd give it a chance. Unless I'm stuck, I don't like being dictated in my games when it's not part of the story

[@TheAzulmagia]

Undertale looks pretty interesting, but I was spoiled on pretty much EVERYTHING before I got to play it, so I don't think I'd get to enjoy the proper experience. :(

[@kylele23]

Unfortunately, that's what happens. You've basically experienced the whole game already if you've watched someone else play it. Only thing is, I got my copy after watching a playthrough and got pretty disappointed as well.

[@MrSonicDoctor]

That's why you must just clearly avoid spoilers. If you're that curious, watch part 1 of a playthrough and stop immediately before your curiosity gets worse.

[@joshuamiller2903]

There is still entertainment to be had outside of the initial shocks and reveals that occur in the game. Most people would insist that you need to play the game blind, but re-experiencing the world while knowing particular plot details ahead of time is interesting in of itself. I would not let you being spoiled affect whether or not your play the game.

[@android19willpwn]

eh, there's still good writing to be had.

[@ThunderDragonRandy]

Same with me but I still loved the game either way.

[@JambopaulGamerInPJs]

Is he doing anything for Sonics 25th anniversary?

[@KidSnivy69]

Sonic handheld marathon after the Star Fox marathon

[@juliancabrera615]

When did he say that ^?

[@KidSnivy69]

***** Various Livestreams

[@Fxbox920]

undertale is meh. i prefer rpgs where im allowed to MURDER without repercussions

[@benlink202forever]

Lol, it sounds so blunt but true.

[@TheCam920]

Wow fuck you you're hitler if you even think about doing genocide run you're basically stalin

[@blazingwaters7469]

+Sableye, the Cynical It's a shame people aren't realizing that you're being sarcastic.

[@justagrump5627]

Cough cough every mother game, especially grind-happy Earthbound Beginnings cough cough (Fucking Mt. Itoi, those Titaniums can go fuck themselves with the Stone status effects and the others)

[@thekey0123]

I kinda agree with what you're saying but for probably different reasons. Often when I play games I tend to want to come off as a hero, and while undertale tends to make the monsters more human so I see what it's doing and like the concept , but I feel like the Game just insults my trying to prepare for a demon fight in smt, or for defeating heartless in kingdom hearts despite the fact that I know they're all completely different things, especially after watching the Genocide ending, which like Stated in the video is way too heavy handed.

[@ryancho6989]

5:33 now i want to see a game where the main protagonist is a box

[@SuperPixelRush]

I think this game would be less hated if Tumblr hadn't gotten their grubby little hands on it. The Tumblr fandom erupted in less than a week of the game's release. I wish the fans would be respectful of people who haven't played it yet and tried to conceal spoilers as best as possible. Instead, the most fanart is arguably of Sans's boss fight, which could be considered the biggest twist in the game. Hell, there's an official T-shirt design that semi-spoils the fight!

[@thenorthshow3655]

Hey Johnny you should play the witcher franchise and it's pretty god damn FUCKING LONG

[@thenorthshow3655]

But very good either that or fallout

[@jowysw]

I still want a Undertale port for consoles, especially Wii U (or NX) it would be cool to see a mother style game like this on a Nintendo console. And about the game, it is great, of course it has problems but it is good overall and I didn't see the problems with the genocide run becaouse I never try it (and never will).

[@Dulcestratus]

But why won't you try genocide? Aside from the tedious grinding, I'm going to assume it's because you can't bring yourself to kill all the "great" characters that you met in the game.

[@jowysw]

+Broserade In both answers: yes. I don't want to spend hours grinding to see good characters that I previously known in the pacifist die. It is not worth it.

[@Dulcestratus]

+Joel Sola López fair enough, I was doing genocide in my first run until I reached papyrus, then I made myself reset. Eventually I did do genocide and I can say the only good thing in that route is the undyne fight, it wasn't really worth it.

[@TheEpicPikachuD]

What about SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANES?

[@eap415]

I wonder How they'd translate the Omega Flowey fight..

[@seanmiller6583]

You're doing a starfox marathon right after Undertale. Oh Johnny you spoiling us!

[@Ikiez_r]

It doesn't matter if the review its positive or negative, people are going to be mad

[@Paranoiasonik]

Great review man. Really enjoyed it.

[@coatlessali]

NEVER HAVE I PRESSED THAT FAST

[@soulfox32]

i like how when chara popped up at 16:19 johnny was just like "ok lets turn around back to darkness"