Somethings Not Right … new bike problem

SUBSCRIBE: bit.ly/2gMWc1t
Today's video we have a look at different saddle heights and how they might feel to you on the road.
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INSTAGRAM: @chrismiller27 @nerocontinental
TWITTER: @chrismiller @nerocontinental
WEB: www.nerocontinental.com
STRAVA: / strava
BIKE: Devel Project A01
GROUPSET: FSA WE Groupset
SERVICE & SUPPORT: Cycling Projects Racing

[@fede1275]

Very interesting and nicely discussed. I also like to bike fit myself and I watched most of the videos you showed at the beginning. I found that going high feels better at first. If your body is flexible enough you would adjust and not notice the pelvis rocking and the longer reach does feel nicer on the quads. This is because the quads are getting closer to an almost standing up position, releasing some of the tension. What you lose is the hamstrings engagement where then pedal is between 5pm to 7pm, where you need them for maximum power. At the same time you felt the calves engaging: this is because of the extra reach and this actually decreases power generation. For maximum power you want to push down with the lower leg in isometric lock, i.e. when the calf at the back and the anterior tibialis muscles are locked. The calves are not able to sustain to generate power by flexing at that stage of the pedal stroke. When you stand on the pedals out of the saddle you can engage the isometric lock and push down the power, when you come back to the saddle you should retain that ability and not lose it. If the saddle is too high you will notice that the anterior tibialis muscle on the front of the shin is relaxed and you have to use the calf to complete the pedal stroke. Another indicator of the saddle being too high is the feel that the pedal pulls down your sole of the shoe, like a feeling of losing pressure when you reach the bottom of then stroke. I found my best position starting from low and slowly raising it up, concentrating on the feeling of the pressure on the pedal and the ankle lock or isometric work of the calf and anterior tibialis. I have a video on my small channel. Really enjoy your approach and content.

[@donwinston]

I've been messing around my saddle height also. The higher saddle height helped use my hamstrings and glutes more with a little less quads. After a week I no longer noticed anything until I had to unclip and put my foot down at a stoplight. Then I had to lean the bike over much more than I was accustomed too which I haven't gotten used to. I've come to the conclusion that there's a 2-3cm range where it doesn't matter.

[@JohnnySantoDomingo]

Great video as I’ve been thinking about saddle height a lot this past month. I first started out with a track bike where I played around for almost a month adjusting the height until finding what was comfortable for me. Fast forward 10 years later when I got a road bike I took the measurement from the track bike top of saddle to bottom bracket and transferred that over to the new bike. The one thing I completely forgot was that i had 165mm cranks on the old bike compared to the new one at 172.5mm. The new bike didn’t really feel too bad and just ignored any slight discomfort to a different saddle. Post rides on the new bike I would get lower back discomfort especially when sleeping at night. Then about two months ago the crank length difference between bikes finally dawned on me. Once i lowered the saddle to match the old bike the back pain went away. Never had any back pain on the track bike especially since it had a much lower handlebar drop compared to the road bike. I thought a more aggressive bar drop would have given me issues, but so far, as far as I can tell, my saddle was just a bit too high!

[@Tim_McMurray]

I've always preferred lower seat over going higher, lower feels more powerful and is better for handling in corners escpecially at places like Heffron park. I run as low as I can without any pain. But I do know my ideal position well with a Steve Hogg bikefit as a base, highly recommend a professional bike fit to keep injury and pain away.

[@Formula369]

An interesting addition would be to use the two methods for calculating saddle height based on inseam. The Lemond method and the 109% method and see how close those get to your number. I’m going through this same process right now.

[@Jarek.]

Two comments from my side: 1) Lowering / moving saddle up you should also compensate movement back/forward. You haven't mentioned it explicitly, maybe some suggestion in 6:56 that you didn't move the saddle but instead of this - sliding forward *on* the saddle 2) Agree regarding lack of immediate & clear feeling of saddle too high. But for me most alarming indication is that after some time in the saddle (when it's too high) is that I'm sliding to the side, i.e. sitting not in the centre. It's like one of my legs suddenly became too short. But in fact it's just a compensation: my body tries to "protect" more important leg. This is very uncomfortable feeling and if not sorted out - can cause problems where bad saddle or bibs could be blamed. But it's just saddle too high... Many thanks for this material, looking forward for interesting discussion in the command and a follow up video!

[@Fixin-To]

Everyone knows you should only change your BikeFit on a Tuesday.

[@TypeVertigo]

I'd suggest caution with going higher. Going too high with saddle height resulted in IT band pain for me. That was painful and very awkward for someone who goes down stairs a lot. I was lucky it didn't progress into full-blown ITBS and went away after a few days.

[@anthonyhomercycling]

Thank you Chris ! I do like mine not too high and not too low too. 😊

[@johnandrews3568]

Very interesting Chris. FWIW I"m 6'6" and have been riding a saddle height of 83cm for decades. Recently my dedicated trainer bike post dropped slowly over time and I started to have some hip issues and then I measured and boom, had slipped 2cm.

[@aussiefreediver]

Love the video! Random question. What saddle bag is that? Thanks!

[@BPM2001]

Super video! I got a bike fit by a professional fixed a lot of pains etc. But still experience some lower back pain when I do low cadence with higher power. Does anyone have any tips or tricks to try to fix this? Maybe not bike related but lower back strength? I am curious on your guys experience.

[@solitaryrefinement6787]

Chris, you don't have NEAR the subs you deserve. Great content.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Thanks SR 🙏🏼

[@nationsnumber1chump]

I put 172.5 cranks on my gravel bike, road bike with 175's. I find it very difficult on the gravel bike and I think raising my saddle height might help. I found that the day after i did a gravel ride with the short cranks, I had a better pedal stroke on the road bike with the longer cranks and produced more power. So I'm gonna just use my gravel bike as a cadence training tool. I get better power with the longer cranks on road bike over long distances

[@jpragmatic7759]

I experience the exact same with too high and low! and recently lowered it because of some back issues that have persisted and maybe thats the issue! I would say I am also glute heavy with a lower saddle height so the opposite to yourself? So not sure what that is. Thanks for the insight I will be tinkering today!

[@jmunyard]

So if your sliding forward the seat might be to high?

[@ngorkngork]

Looking at you pedaling at 7:53 for me, it looks a little bit high since it looks like you are losing control of your knee and ankle towards the bottom of your pedal stroke. But since you've been doing it for sometime now and you are so used to it, I think that you are most comfortable in that position. I think bike fit is personal. Bike fitters can only help by suggesting, what would be better, but it's all about how you feel personally on the bike. I am very fiddly with my saddle height/fore aft. I think there is a range that fits fine, it just depends on how my body is feeling during that time.

[@felixjackson2670]

As a bike fitter I can say everyone has a ‘ball park’ seat position. Within that, adjustments depend on comfort,efficiency,fitness level and riding style..even shoes and clothing choices...in my own experience,when Road Racing..after a lay off and not race fit,seat often felt too low..however when race fit and legs primed,especially when riding flat out,then never gave it a thought and legs felt solid...well worth finding ones best ball park position with the help of someone who has some experience.(however not necessarily a ‘bike fitter’ who just uses a computer and applies the same formula to everyone...)

[@rafraf3032]

Have you measured your inseam...??? Do you know the length???

[@gwatson7124]

Did you find altering saddle height altered bike handling? Something often overlooked in bike fit guidelines are explainations about how to adjust fit to optimize the way the bike handles (i get that handling preferences can be very personal). I find even subtle differences in geometry change a bike's handling characteristics enough that i will change my position to find my happy balanced position on the bike. These differences might not be felt when the bikes are stationery, but when ridden (harder the better) they can be quite obvious.

[@chrisvisvis]

Super insightful, love the final tip of sliding forward as an indicator ✌️Recently tried to fit myself on my grav bike and am plagued by knee pain despite the fit being almost identical to the roadie. Over to the professionals I think 🧐

[@Tim_McMurray]

That's very interesting! I am just embarking on my gravel bike learning journey now and have tried to set it at my road position with slightly higher bar height for all day comfort, Hope it works OK, will find out next weekend on the Colo River loop

[@jeffdavis5841]

Does your gravel bike have the same length cranks as your road bike? I have found several people that have gotten new gravel bikes aren't aware that they seem to be spec'd / coming with shorter crank arm length than what they have been riding on their road bikes. It can change your knee over pedal and may require a change of cleat position and fore / aft saddle position. Plus see my comments above regarding saddle height adjustment.

[@allthingsbike.2574]

Hi. I had this same problem when switching between bikes. Fiddle around with the saddle position (forward and back on the rails) this sorted my knee out. Hope this helps.

[@djanubi]

I used to have my saddle higher than now! Way different pedaling and feeling! I changed my saddle and generally my bikefit because as you said top-end power wasn't there! Lower means more strain to the knees (not too much) but way more power, transfer efficiency went up, and generally even speed! At the start of dropping the saddle, it's all quads and then the back comes into play especially if you are low in the front end! That's how it goes body adapts to whatever ever basically but since I went lower in the saddle not by much like yours 2 cm I will never go back!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

I have never been that bothered by slight changes, especially given the geometry of the gravel and road bikes are so different. Really interested to read your reply about feeling more powerful at a lower height

[@djanubi]

@@ChrisMillerCycling As a nerd, in general, I apply the same principles to cycling and while I do my efforts I am trying to improve myself and my knowledge ! Having the saddle higher (toes scrape at the bottom of the pedal stroke) means the transferring of the power becomes inefficient(in general riding there are exceptions) compared to a foot which is more flat(not totally flat){pointing less downwards)! That's what I ended up with after 5 years with the saddle higher! My angle with the leg extended is 146 it was 150 so that's not a big saddle drop but everything changed!Also for the changes to show proper results time is key !

[@ernestoechevers4741]

I moved my cleats further back and i feel very stable on the pedals but i lowered the saddle to compensate since i couldn't find a proper % posted online y just lowered it and i don't feel quite good on it i guess i will have to lower it a bit more taking into consideration i have to move it a little forward to compensate for the pedal axle distance i just made a mess of myself 😭

[@czeckson74]

what´s your height ? No data on PCS

[@wendysuperfan1014]

Thanks Chris.Interesting.

[@ryangolder705]

Perks of using my local bike shop for fitting and new bikes is I’ve done one bike fit and they just set the new bike to that bike fit. No need for me to play around with anything. 1 bike fit for 3 bikes

[@Mikeatcitycycle]

Easiest way for me to self-fit when it comes to saddle height and set-back is knowing that fine line when you start to "lose control" of your hamstrings.

[@roadbike1014]

Find a saddle height (the distance between the saddle and BB center, not necessarily the up or down) and stick with it. The fix is moving the saddle back which changes several things, it gets the saddle out of the way allowing your core to engage to hold your torso up eliminating a sore back and giving you an anchor to push down on the pedals. It place your center of gravity over the power of the pedal stroke. It opens the knee angle removing the sheer stress on the joint. It allows you to use more quad muscle. It lets you use the saddle as an anchor to push the pedal forward from. There is a university study out there states that moving the cleats back on the shoe increases power and reduces fatigue because it eliminates a lot calf use by reducing the leverage the pedal forces create because the lever of the foot pivots at the ankle, the shorter the lever the less the calf has to work to make a stable platform. Read the free book linked on my channel to get a better idea of position on the bike.

[@JFomo]

crank length?

[@patrickparisienne1917]

I was amazed at how different a 10mm drop felt like, let alone 20mm!!!!

[@davidboonzaayer6832]

I can tell when I’m too high... it feels like I can’t get the proper lift when climbing or struggle with getting the quick flick up when riding high tempo or higher. If it’s to low I feel I can’t get the push down ... the sweet spot somewhere in between is a few mms or less.. very finicky. Hardest thing I’ve ever done to get my bike fitting me properly... I’ve been doing this for more than 7 years and I think I’ve finally come to a more stable position where I don’t need to change it ...there are so many variables and changing one thing effects a heap of other things. Arghh!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Thanks for the info David, that’s some great insight

[@Youtubefana]

Chris what’s your height and inseam?

[@RetiredTSgtUSAF]

at least you can get to a bike fitter, nearest one from me is at least 6 hours away.

[@JeffreyThistle]

That was well articulated.

[@truthseeker8483]

🙂

[@filmansumandal948]

Chris what's your height? It seems the frame is small for you

[@melbournecyclingsegments7510]

I think I need to get some professional advice. I'm at 805mm with 175 cranks... I have tried lower though.

[@SeeYouUpTheRoad]

You’re probably not going to want to hear this but ever since I’ve been watching your channel I’ve noticed you ride a frame size too small. Your head is so far forward of the steerer tube. The top tube is the most important measurement in bike sizing. You should be on the next size up. Your weight distribution on the bike will be better. Your descending will improve. The seat tube angles will suit you better and your saddle height will fall right into place as well. We tend to want to do what the pro Peloton does by riding a size too small because they do it. But honestly most of their fits are totally jacked up. Just my two cents but what do I know I’ve only been a bike fitter for 20 years.

[@thedownunderverse]

Boom

[@truthseeker8483]

@@thedownunderverse 😁

[@slavkingsxr]

Thanks for video, and if its not a secret, what inseam do you have? All bike calculators recommend for me about 73 cm, but I prefer 72 cm height

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

I don’t know mate, not that I think a set number is really relevant when it comes to saddle height. You want to be basing your height off knee angles and ankle flex.

[@danc1829]

Any updates thoughts on disc now Chris? I see the new bike comes with them

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Lots of thoughts. Want to ride the bike in the hills and do a road race on it before I put something on the channel about them.

[@danc1829]

@@ChrisMillerCycling thanks for replying I look forward to the video. Still on rim brakes myself, atm I have no reason to go disc but the market is 90% disc now reguardless of us wanting it or not sadly 🙁

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

No matter what, I still think they are a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. But I’m ‘trying’ to come at them from a fresh perspective. In the mean time, hang in to your rim brake bike as long as you can.

[@BigMoe1290]

The Devel is such a good looking bike ... Loving the tips as well, not overly complicated but rider orientated is what we need!

[@BucketEditz]

Bling bike 🤩 Can we get Devel in Oz,or do I have to fly back to my homeland?🤪

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Hey Nikko, thanks. Check out this video for availability Devel A02 Launch | First Look kzbin.info/www/bejne/j2iWnmVugdSDrsk

[@BucketEditz]

@@ChrisMillerCycling checking it out right now boss👍

[@dominikjukic8725]

you should have a chat with neil stanbury from road cycling academy channel

[@Cyclingsucks]

Just happily riding around at 220 watts. 😀😮‍💨

[@occyman]

If I move my saddle even 5mm…I feel it alot

[@seanreilly6618]

You don't actually want your calves "doing more" untill you are sprinting for the line or the final climb.

[@vietnguyen4312]

Being a towering 160cm I hate it when people tell me my saddle needs to go down. Lol If my saddle were any lower my bum would be dragging on the ground. lol having a sexy bike with the seat almost touching the top tube is a terrible look. lol I need to grow some legs. lol

[@lovenottheworld5723]

Greg Lemond had already won the Tour before he realised his saddle position was all wrong.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

That’s hilarious. I never knew that story. Now I have no excuses.

[@ariffau]

Home bike fit via trial and error is a waste of time, money and energy. Just book a session with a fitter and boom!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

So you get a bike fit for every bike?

[@ariffau]

@@ChrisMillerCycling just get a proper one. And work my way around there. I can usually tolerate +/- 5mm Bike fitter prescribed me a saddle height of 714. To be honest, I can’t tell the difference between a 709 vs a 714 vs a 719 bb to saddle. Even when it comes to cleat positioning. I just slap it all the way to the back and call it a day.

[@ariffau]

@@ChrisMillerCycling and, I don’t get a new bike every season. Perks of not being a pro 😆

[@ariffau]

@@ChrisMillerCycling additional info : I just got a new bike this week. Yes, I got a bike fit prior to purchasing. And also note that the last time I bought a bike was in 2016. Most riders don’t buy a new bike every year, Chris. At least we who don’t race, don’t.

[@ariffau]

@@ChrisMillerCycling but, to answer your question, if I were to get a new bike again, would I get a bike fit? YES, I would. I would factor in the cost of a bike fit as part of the purchase. Dare I say as the cost price of that new bike. 😄

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

To give any more information to anybody without getting paid is disrespectful to myself. I have educated the cycling world now for the last 15 years. What I've given to the cycling world is absolutely priceless. to keep giving free advice and information that is pure gold would be stupid on my part. I can help you become a better cyclist. Chris.

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

How you doing? Chris, it's me your Lord. I'm sorry to tell you but your pedal stroke is totally off. your ankle is not supposed to be moving and I don't care that any professional points to toes up or down. your foot is supposed to be totally stable. No movement in your ankle at all. why would you people think that you are professionals? ha ha ha 🤣 🤌 just imagine if I had you for a month and coached you.

[@cat.astrophe2080]

It took me a while, but finally I realised you are a serial troll. It was around the time you told everyone to check your strava after boasting about your sprinting. So I did, thanks for the laugh, 700 watts Max power in the sprint sessions you did for 5 mins 🤣