Sonic Fans and "Skill Issues"

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Skill Issue conversation starts (4:48)
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#sonicthehedgehog #sonic #sega

[@Imgenuinlyhorriefied]

Due to how varied this franchise is, people look for different things in a sonic game. Its *one* reason why the game is so divided in the fan base.

[@FirstName_LqstName]

@georgedacat I feel like it's not that divided as people like to make it out to be. More so, you'll have a good chunk of people hate other games for literally no reason (skill issues) and never actually think "yeah no that game did have good ideas. Bring that back and improve" The abandoned ment issue feels real, tho. Gives off the impression you can't just make one game and improve upon it. So fans similarly think complimenting one game means saying, "So you hate this one for changing ? HOW STUPID YOU ARE" Like. Evening Star could just make all the classic games. Literally nobody except people who like complaining would complain. We could get rid of all 2D in 3D games. Literally, nobody would complain except people who like to complain.

[@Orange_Swirl]

​@FirstName_LqstName Incorrect, actually. There would be people complaining about no more 2D sections in 3D Sonic games, and not just for the sake of it. Here's what they would say: "2D sections have become a core part of modern Sonic's identity. I would hate to see them go away, especially since not all of them are bad, heck, not even half." I would like to assure you that I would be more than happy to do away with 2D sections entirely, but don’t oversimplify people's perspectives on reality.

[@FirstName_LqstName]

But you get the point. It's still complaining for its own sake. When all evidence and logic lead to it being the best decision. The small chunk of people are gonna complain. But literally, nobody would take them seriously. Hence why i called it "complaining for complainings sake." Justifying reasons to be mad on the Internet is just a thing. Doesn't mean everyone complaining, actually have anything of value to add to the conversation. Its just screaming out words wanting to be heard, but those words realistically might as well be nothing of real value.

[@Orange_Swirl]

​@FirstName_LqstName Mmm, I wouldn't entirely write them off as "no value." Realistically speaking, it is true that not everyone can be listened to, but that in of itself does not mean that their opinion holds no value, or that they're "complaining for the sake of complaining." I would say 2D Sonic sections can work if done in a similar manner to, say, Super Mario Odyssey, in which the 2D sections are clearly telegraphed to the player and demonstrate a good understanding of how classic 2D Mario sections worked. But that's just one possible solution. Another is for the devs to acknowledge that people want this, and give a good reason for why or why not they're including them in the next game. This is a good way to get people to understand the devs' game design mindset, albeit not a perfect solution.

[@Imgenuinlyhorriefied]

​​@@Orange_Swirl 2D sections in Sonic games aren't bad, it's just when the overuse it. (Like in colours, gens, forces and frontires) when there is a another sub-series of Sonic games that give you 2D gameplay

[@picawood]

i was about to say something about skill issue stuff but i kinda tired, so all i gonna say is Sonic games gets better each time you replay them more.

[@SendoDX]

That is true! But the only reason someone will be interested in replaying a level is because it was fun the first time. I feel like a lot of people focus so heavily on replayability that they totally forget people won’t replay something that wasn’t fun from the get go. The stage being fun off rip is just as important as its replayability.

[@aperkins0627]

The game design philosophy of Sonic games is challenge, and was modeled after Super Mario Bros. speed running. The games are actually kind of hard but we don't realize because we've been playing them for years, and generally when someone complains about a game that also happens to be hard, "skill issue" is the first thing that comes to mind for most people. The same goes for souls players.

[@TheEggPaladin]

Sonic fans who say “skill issue” are the ones with the skill issues….in communication 😎

[@SendoDX]

@@TheEggPaladin so true bestie 😤

[@CaptainF123]

We need tougher S-Ranks again so we can say to all the haters that they have skill issues.

[@roiitzkovich4545]

Extreme mode

[@socheata643]

@@roiitzkovich4545 The only mode that has a game over.

[@marthathompson4876]

People who say Sonic CD sucks have massive skill issues, and I think you know who I'm talking about 🥶🥶🥶🥶😤

[@FunnyFrog70]

I'm imagining a certain man with a south park character as his profile picture

[@Gamerbropart2]

Sonic CD is fun it can be challenging but I managed to pull it through.

[@sirsonic1832]

Fucking premy. Can’t stand that guy

[@AquaVerve]

nobody was good at cd on their first run

[@thelnr2]

I don’t enjoy the classic games so cd is like nails on a chalkboard to play for me

[@BlueTakBlur]

I feel like the real issue is that Sega is terrible at teaching people how to play sonic games.

[@SendoDX]

That's definitely a part of it. I wish they'd get tutorials down for these games man.

[@Channelwithsubswithnovids]

Fr.Sonic unleashed is one of the better examples. Its a great game *imo* but The game has so many mechanics that it never tells you what they are, and how they work. Like the whole werehog upgrade system, making iylt hard for casuals to pick up and play

[@BlueTakBlur]

@@SendoDX yeah it took me 2 years to actually play well or even understand the games and It was part of my childhood but when I sat down as a adult and watched tutorials online and tried over and over suddenly it just clicked and now I can just pick up any sonic game lol

[@SAMURAIPACK456]

On the contrary, sonic fans are terrible at learning how to play these games and learn it’s simple mechanics, sega doesn’t need to teach them, sonic fans should stop being mentally slow and claim a game to be trash when they haven’t learn enough of it’s mechanics

[@socheata643]

Yeah, I have some or most “skill issues” but what matters is you try. But although I sucked in the final horizon the Master King Koco Trial, and The Sweet Dreams lol.

[@-mixu-]

Brain not braining at the beginning xD

[@TehJellyLord]

As someone who grew up with 3D Sonic, I kinda like my 3D Sonic games to be an unpolished mess but still a lot of fun lol. Frontiers is like in the same tier of Sonic game as stuff like Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog (two games I really really like so it’s not a diss at all) to where they’re so fun but loaded to the brim with jank and design issues. Also yeah the whole “skill issue” thing is sooooo annoying. Like I didn’t like final horizon for the most part, mostly cuz it improves some things but it also eventuates the jank of Frontiers to the point it starts to frustrate me lol, but I got hit with the “git gud” and the “skill issue” and the “you would never last in a Dark Souls game” sooooo many times lol. But I seriously don’t think it’s incorrect to say that Final Horizon has some questionable design to it lol.

[@Phobia-shadows]

All opinions are correct and all opinions are wrong its subjective

[@FunnyFrog70]

the goat is here everybody

[@Phobia-shadows]

@@FunnyFrog70 thanks man

[@FirstName_LqstName]

"In my opinion, Sonic Frontiers is a game without Sonic because he doesn't even sound the same"

[@Orange_Swirl]

​@@FirstName_LqstNameYour point highlights a crucial issue with OP's statement. An opinion can be objectively wrong if it is built on falsehoods. However, this kind of gets messy when you consider that "truths" can often be subjective, depending upon the perspective of the observers involved. Consider the image of two men facing a symbol that strongly resembles a six or a nine. One man shouts "it's a six!", while the other shouts "it's a nine!" In reality, one could be correct, both could be correct, or neither could be correct depending upon the author's intent, or perhaps not even based on the author's intent. Or maybe the author's intent was that there is no correct answer and they just drew the symbol to mess with people. Please keep these in mind as you continue your existence.

[@SendoDX]

@@Orange_Swirl So… the resulting conclusion is that perspective dictates everything and makes subjectivity permeate even things considered as “truths”… which means all opinions are subjective

[@fatalwaffle1715]

Cool Video.

[@vintoplad]

The connection for the whole "skill issue" thing is thanks to all the "Sonic was never good" people showing themselves playing very poorly, and blaming the game. Thus an opposition was made; "Sonic was always good", where people lose the ability to know what nuance is. "Journalists rate the games low because they're bad at them" also became a common talking point across multiple communities at the time, and yes, it was mostly about IGN. You'll see this type of discussion in any community IGN has scorned.

[@SendoDX]

@@vintoplad very interesting perspective! I’m gonna give some time to researching more about that and see what the vibe is. Appreciate your perspective

[@Josephnina96]

Sonic frontier is the most fun i had in a sonic game since SA2 . I got frontiers this month by the way and I already 100% Krotos Island im on the second Island

[@Josephnina96]

Only negative about the game is that they never put the soap shoes in the playstation store for players like me that miss the give away for the shoes . I dont think the soap shoes should be limited it should be available for everybody

[@chaoschannel3428]

Excuse my yapping, but tbf "skill issue" is a valid term for this franchise, due to the fact that what this series is most known for (its idea of speed based gameplay) was born from the concept of speed running. The very nature of Sonic's speed was conceptualized from the developers who'd play the original Super Mario Bros so frequently that they could memorize World 1-1 (and subsequent levels) and traverse them as quickly as possible. Most in part due to the lack of a save function back then, thus having to be forced to replay levels to return to where you died. What SEGA/Sonic Team have essentially done is taking a concept that most casuals wouldn't dive into (speed running, by extension NOT playing as probably intended) and converting it into a game's normal intended gameplay style. Essentially, this franchise is the "git gud" meme taken to its logical extreme.

[@seematahir5970]

Glad to see Sendo come out as platformsexual ❤

[@saildust]

you're fucking hilarious bro keep it up

[@SendoDX]

@@saildust appreciate the kind words 🙌🙌 much love

[@BlueTakBlur]

am l the only one that thought getting both true endings without looking up all the robot generators was easy and quick? I did this on my first playthrough. I feel like I'm crazy. I can see why it's hard for people but the fact that I'm in like the 1% is odd to me. idk. I like the crazy level design

[@GiovanniKody100]

Yea

[@Ghostofcalmaity]

Playing the adventure games when I was 12 was fun but annoying Playing it now Is a eye opening experience Playing frontiers on release date was depressing Playing frontiers now awakened my 3rd eye Sonic games always deserve a second play through or at least a second chance (except forces I hated that more the second time)

[@alextoonz166]

This gotta be one of the most entertaining yap sessions I’ve heard

[@SendoDX]

Appreciate it gang, yapping is what I’m good for lmaooo

[@Prime_Legend]

Alot sonic games are unpolished. I think what matters beyond polish for a sonic game is the FUN value it can bring, which comes from its gameplay, cinematics, music etc. Frontiers' gameplay isn't polished, but it DOES make you feel like the sonic I'd watch in the Sonic CD opening with how free movement can be, compared to the linear 3D boost games from the past. Its cinematics, high octacne boos fights do make you feel like within an well produced action anime. That's what I like to see, altho I'd definitely be greatly appreciated if the next game was more polished. It's just kinda crazy how people have SUDDENLY switched up on this game so abruptly, because of its less polished bits, but these are the same people that were screaming their ass off with pure hype when fighting giganto for the first time.

[@DaltonIsaacs-fn3bb]

I think that the skill discussion amongst the community probably comes from the wide-spread favorites of the franchise. Some of the most beloved games in the series are also some of the more difficult ones, which has resulted in fans using skill requirements as a measure of quality. High-intensity players will expect a more intense experience, whereas casual players don’t value difficulty as much as enjoyment. But that’s just my take :)

[@FunnyFrog70]

sorry I haven't been watching your frontiers series, its just not a game I interested in. Also, DANG! I forgot how much of this game looks like it was made in a level editor.

[@SendoDX]

@@FunnyFrog70 all good brother!! Watch whatever you want

[@SFproductions1]

3:55 REAL

[@redstaticofficial0320]

The best way I can describe sonic frontiers is that is like a better version of sonic 06. One is unplayable and bad and the other one is playable and fun.

[@lazaruspitraider490]

It's like people who somehow don't like Sonic Riders og. Sure the tutorial and mechanics aren't that well explained but main problem is it's difficulty and how the AI never lets you breathe. Certified skill issue moment. Talk about Unleashed and it's S Ranks and level design a bit unforgiving / rage inducing or werehog. Skill issue. Lots of Sonic games are really difficult but also have really cool ways to go about things you can exploit in secondary runs and that really adds to the speed and thrill the devs try to sell with Sonic according to games I've played... I lucked out I played only the goats and haven't touched any rotten eggs tho. So what I believe skill issue is in Sonic is inexperience especially with later game content because most levels in a Sonic game really need to be explored before a well thought out and respectable opinion can be made, because I think people want to see if you really understand the level design and other aspects you're criticizing to see more value in your criticism in order to respect it more and not default to skill issue. My personal belief. I played Rivals games, Rush, Riders, Frontiers, Forces, Unleashed and classics Mega Collection Plus, Mania and CD only. I dropped out of Sonic for a while later and returned for Forces hype and pushed through to see Frontiers (2nd favorite boost title after Unleashed)

[@Superdude-rd2gs]

most people don't think the werehog is hard, it's main problem is that it's combat is extremely basic and boring compared to actually good action games and the fact that it takes up most of the play time, the rest of what you said is valid.

[@teamsonicchannel4400]

i loved the challenge of the final horizon honestly the only thing i would have changed is allowed tails amy and knuckles to do the challenges except the titans

[@ErizoLoK0]

Sonic Frontiers is a great game everyone who says it sucks you probably play Sonic's Schoolhouse

[@GreekShinobi223]

It's not that the game sucks, it's just that now that time has passed and people found the flaws the game has, they act like the game was never good, like bro Frontiers is by no means a perfect game, it has its flaws, but people make it out like it's the next big trash since Forces, like come on man, do things have to be 1000% perfect to be considered good now?

[@keithflippers4429]

Ahh yes because an education game should be the bar we set for Sonic games

[@Orange_Swirl]

​@@GreekShinobi223 I didn't like Sonic Frontiers even when I first played it. To me, the video game's core gameplay loop I find not very engaging. I don't find the game very challenging, and Sonic's movement doesn't have enough momentum to really make the game that fun for me. I don't find the art style or even most of the music besides some vocal tracks to be memorable and unique to me. The Cyberspace levels are based mostly on past stages. Again. And their level design is generally very short, undercooked, and not very engaging. The story is a step up from previous games, and the free DLCs were absolutely fantastically handled (multiple playable characters? The spin-dash???) Overall, a very "meh" game for me.

[@largechild9941]

This was one hell of a random recommendation. fantastic video.

[@Ibalistic_hedge]

I guarantee that when Frontiers 2 comes out, it will be even more successful than Frontiers, but fans will say it sucks.

[@SendoDX]

@@Ibalistic_hedge it’ll take a few months but the switch up will definitely happen lmao

[@NappyVibes]

hey I have been watching some of your videos and they're very clear and professional. I was wondering what you do to the bitrate to get the videos so clear because I am having trouble figuring it out myself.

[@SendoDX]

@@NappyVibes I uhhh don’t actually know what bitrate my videos are at 😭 I think it’s somewhere between 8000-10000 when recording on OBS and then whatever the standard export is for premiere pro 1080p HD.

[@NappyVibes]

@@SendoDX well thanks for the help none the less keep on making videos man, you're doing great

[@Espurr.8]

This reminds me of sonic super star

[@akdreamer6497]

Dude you're like a solo Oneyplays

[@SendoDX]

Best compliment I’ve ever received

[@akdreamer6497]

@@SendoDX W OneyDX

[@FidgetyAttic]

personally I dont like frontiers but I get why others would people need to realize people can like games they tehmselves dont like

[@Barraspy]

The “Sendo D Ranks” getting to you man? 😂 1:02 sometimes the brain just don’t brain 🤷🏻‍♂️ 1:16 LETS GO GAMBLING!!! 🤑🤑🤑 2:41 I get being torn about this game, I get the points from both besides, that’s why I say from a GAME standard it’s a decent game, for a SONIC game it’s good, not great, but good. It’s arguably the most replayable game outside of unleashed with how much there is to do. 4:57 true, I have valid opinions as to why I hate Sonic CD, I’m what you’d probably say is a good Sonic player, but apparently it’s a “skill issue” that it’s nigh impossible to navigate the stages even for the seasoned Sonic player, which in my eyes sorta makes it’s objectively bad in the level design front (which I know Objectiveness can be argued) I’ll admit, I make LOTS of mistakes in Sonic Unleashes and playing it I probably look bad, but I still LOVE that game Even further the SMALL AMOUNT of antagonism I got in Omens playthrough they tried to say skill issue when most people said I played it well and have a good grasp of understanding Sonic. To me that’s a flaw in the design The only time I could even remotely understand a “skill issue” is if you die or get stuck in Sonic Forces which is just lazy level design and borderline easy. 16:17 it’s up to us to save the community 😭 it’s gone to heck in the past two weeks 19:41 they don’t know us, this junk comes NATURALLY TO US 😈 SONIC AUTISM POWERS 😈 22:27 she’ll leave you, Sonic never will

[@LegenDX-XS]

I hate that when i say something like i wish some stuff change to make sonic frontiers better imo but Sonic goblins out of nowhere, say skill issues.

[@LegenDX-XS]

My idea for Sonic 2 frontiers aka next game maybe. I want 3 HUGE islands so people who say there are too many islands can stop complaining. I think they should do a city type island, an ice cap like island and a green hill or hill top, but way more realistic so it can fit with what they were going for in sonic frontiers the gameplay should be more Momentum heavy base but keep everything from Sonic frontiers in it. ( Edited, can u share my opinion in ur next Sonic type video )

[@LegenDX-XS]

Also, all Cyber-space levels are like shadow paet of sonic x shadow generations

[@MetalWeebChaos]

I do have some form of an answer to the whole skill issue thing. Keep in mind that I don't know everything about the Sonic community so don't take it as de facto completo. We had a fair share of influencers over the years (not gonna say any names, Arin) telling us this or that sucks and people just take it as fact because they can't think for themselves or deluded themselves to think it's all true due to how many years they watched them. More seasoned or hardcore fans got pissed due to this and now they have to watch out for any fakers that might hurt the franchise unfairly. However, this is Sonic fans we're talking about. Some of them can take ANYTHING out of context and believe that anyone can do harm just because they think differently. For example, RandomNutz69 is doing damage to the franchise because he couldn't handle the special stages in Heroes or ShadowFangirl69 is giving people cancer because she couldn't get into the comics or whatever the fuck. With this game though, all I know is that people praised it highly to the point where the crazy side started attacking people just for thinking differently. Today, more people are coming out saying the game's not all that. From what I've seen, there are people who are trying to be more objective about it but I'm absolutely sure the opposite still exists... because Sonic fans. EDIT: If we're just talking about these videos, I just see people meming more than anything else lol

[@Spike_the_Mobian]

I got a gaming PC just for Sonic mods and fan games. You should get a gaming PC. You won't regret it!!!

[@-mixu-]

Collecting as much falling stars as fast as possible is one of the only genuines things i like to do in this game ,w, p Despite my overall opinion about the game "-w-

[@emorybest1003]

Idk I like hard games 🤷

[@SendoDX]

@@emorybest1003 nothing wrong with that!! Just uh… don’t trash talk others if they’re bad at them 😭

[@modeld3279]

Man's should play portal 2 I'D like to see that

[@SendoDX]

Bro I’m ngl I’ve never touched the portal series but I gotta try it someday 😭

[@modeld3279]

Also where is the sonic momentum videos

[@SendoDX]

@@modeld3279 I need to get to it 😭 new demo is peak

[@roqhardroquemore2021]

We really miss you. Please come home.

[@SendoDX]

I’m coming baby girl, just you wait

[@Sage942]

skill issue lil bro

[@SendoDX]

@@Sage942 😭😭

[@Gamerbropart2]

Same thing goes to star fox zero people complained about the controls and how it was hard for them to control but if they actually TRIED AND WENT INTO THE TRAINING MODE FIRST they could master them properly.

[@secoTheSonicFan]

Its a matter of having fun with the controls or not. Some 1990s games have tank controls. Sure I could "learn" those tank controls but its not fun. If you like it fine, but dont force everyone to. I'm heterosexual, and you are the opposite. Yet I dont force you to be straight

[@keithflippers4429]

​@@secoTheSonicFantf does that have to do with-

[@Gamerbropart2]

@@secoTheSonicFan why tf would you say that? I wasn't forcing you for anything. Also good for you for being heterosexual I don't mind it but that was not what I was taking about.

[@secoTheSonicFan]

Not a fan of Sonic Frontiers. Because I am straight. Heterosexual. I respect that people that like Frontiers are the opposite

[@GreekShinobi223]

Did you just call me gay then? Because I like that game

[@secoTheSonicFan]

​@@GreekShinobi223Its possible that your boyfriend also likes Frontiers

[@technicallyinept2120]

This is probably the funniest version of this childish insult I have ever seen.

[@SendoDX]

@@secoTheSonicFan “that’s a nice game, did your husband buy it for you?”

[@Superkirby982]

Something tells me Sendo took those D ranks personally 🥱🥱🥱🥱

[@SendoDX]

THE S IN SENDO IS FOR S RANK GRAHHHHHH

[@gabeowo7165]

0:29 the moment I realized it wasn't just a background gameplay 😂

[@WeebT]

15:36 fucking truth