Soreness Doesn't Matter??

The ALL NEW RP Hypertrophy App: your ultimate guide to training for maximum muscle growth-rp.app/hypertrophy
Become an RP channel member and get instant access to over 24 hrs of exclusive in-depth training and advanced science content! ➡️ bit.ly/37esL8i

[@jamesduncanson5316]

I've been training 16 years, and even though my muscle growth is there and is used to the training, if I don't get sore, I question my workout. In time, you appreciate being sore because you know you gave it your all in that muscle!

[@UncleSilverGaming]

I like soreness because it tells me that I'm hitting the correct muscles in my workout. If I do inclined presses and my shoulders get sore but my chest doesn't, I'm either on too steep of an incline or I'm using bad form.

[@disneyfan_1237]

He was right about understimulation. I used to do calf raises on the floor but after doing them on the stairs with and increased ROM, I felt sore calfs.

[@89kilemal]

​@@disneyfan_1237calves

[@byorce]

This is a bad conclusion. Theres muscle strength imbalance in your compound movement.

[@leftwinger764]

There are two types of muscle pain: early and late muscle pain. Early muscle pain occurs during or immediately after muscle exertion and is caused by acidification of your muscles. Delayed muscle pain only occurs 24 to 48 hours after exercise and is caused by very small tears in your muscle fibers.

[@Pivitrix]

To me, soreness is just something that happens when your body isn't used to the movements. Like doing a new movement, or, let's say i take 1-2 weeks off the gym. Back in the gym, i'l probably get pretty sore the first 1 or 2 times i hit that muscle again. But then it's back to cruising and the soreness goes away. The muscles still get fatigued as hell, even if i don't feel sore. I agree that perhaps, you can use soreness to guide you alittle bit, atleast at the very beginning.

[@NofirstnameNolastname]

Same here. I also train less hard then I used to because I get injured too easily regardless of my technique etc. When I did train very hard I was always sore. Kinda like it how it is now, still making similar gains but less rekt all the time and more safe from injury.

[@sethharris8911]

I’ve been training everything once a week for the past 6 months and have progressed in weight pretty much every week to two weeks and I still get just as sore if not more sore than the week before, if intensity stays maxed out I don’t think you should not be sore at all

[@Pivitrix]

@@sethharris8911 I go to failure on every set. If you only hit each muscle once a week, and you have been doing it for 6 months, your body might not have adapted fully yet. Glad to hear you are still having good progress.

[@sethharris8911]

@@Pivitrix I understand what you’re saying there could be some truth to it but I think if the reps are staying the same and the weight is going up then I have to be recovering and adapting

[@89kilemal]

​@@NofirstnameNolastname*than

[@goldjozi1276]

Love these shorts dude

[@Adrian-cn5rk]

Short dudes*

[@ianaigner-varoz7327]

Love this short dude’s shorts dude

[@jessicalloyd2330]

@@Adrian-cn5rkShort Dr.* He is probably certified for emergency colonoscopies so… you know…. Watch yourself

[@thenewyorkhip-hopspot5485]

Another great thing abt soreness is that yk ur training that muscle when it’s sore.

[@Mach9330]

Soreness is pretty useful. If you're sore for a couple days, you probably challenged the muscle good. 3 or more days, you may have overdone it.

[@onurbole7921]

I agree generally, but sometimes it is nearly impossible to get sore. He is talking about side delts and it is a good example. He wrote on his website that side delts could be trained up to 4-5 times a week because side delt exercises don't result in systemic fatigue, they respond better to high weekly volume like traps, abs and calves. Now if you are doing 4 sets for 5 days a week for a while (say lateral raises, upright rows, Y raises, full stretch cable raises), you may not even get sore if you do all 4 of them and 20 sets in one session in the next week, you may not get sore if you go super heavy or super high reps to change your regular rep range, because they are so well adapted to training. The only way to make them sore is to take a few months off and start again. Everyone is different but this is how I feel. It applies to my biceps also. When I take a break from training they get sore for a day or two, but after a couple sessions no matter what I do they don't get sore. Over the years I have learned to feel them better during curls but still, they don't get sore easily. Even if I train them until they get so weak that it feels numb. Larger muscle groups and heavy compounds are a different story though.

[@parker940]

I train to failure thats my only mental cue that works for growth.

[@Kafufflez]

Same bro, I did RPE, high volume for 5 years and made 0 gains, actually lost strength. Started going to failure and added 70kg to leg press in under 2 months. I’m starting to think everyone is different and what works for others may not work for some.

[@parker940]

@@Kafufflez yup i have very stubborn muscles (as a naturally "skinny fat" type) that needs extreme intensity to grow.

[@imuw5408]

Soreness is the only indicator I have.

[@zeppkfw]

I think most people should train to failure. Dr Mike already talked about this before but most people don't even go through volitional failure.

[@kakefisk]

​@@parker940thats just another word for being underfed and undertrained.

[@camronrubin8599]

1 set to failure . Never get sore . Still gaining like crazy

[@rj5822]

1 set to failure followed by 5 mini myoreps. No soreness, but the gains are visually there for sure 💪

[@mml3140]

Isnt that what dorian yates used to do

[@fastlifebmx9292]

1 set to failure plus pre exhaustion isolation set and I'm extremely sore afterwards

[@larrycera9276]

@@mml3140people ignore that he did do several “warmup” sets of each exercise, but counted the last, all-out set of each exercise as the “working set”. I always suggest watching his Blood & Guts training video when he was training for one of the last few Olympia’s he won (I forget the year it was filmed). You can see he does several sets before the last one, which included several negative reps assisted by his training partner pulling the extension part of the rep for Yates to empty the tank with negative reps till failure. His autobiography (“Dorian Yates: A Warriors Story”) is free for download on archive and he supposedly goes into detail on every aspect of his training. I haven’t read it yet, but this exchange just reminded me and motivated me to download it and check it out. When I was first starting to lift in a more “bodybuilding” style way to gain mass I followed his training and weekly training schedule (which was four days a week, mon & tues on, Wednesday off, thurs & fri on, sat & sun off). It was still the most efficacious and productive split I’ve ever used. It takes discipline and confidence to take three days off a week, but I’ve been leaning towards trying it once again, this way I can find out if it still benefits me the same or if I was just young and growing no matter what I did, as long as it was with intensity.

[@gurbydhar]

Failure is necessary to succeed

[@Banu.fitness]

That’s….not what this video is saying. At all.

[@Kafufflez]

I’m never sore (only first week after a week lay off), even at super high volumes. I added sets every week trying to find my MRV and started overtraining triceps and chest despite them never being sore.

[@Wicked2305]

My sores only occurred in my 1st week at the gym. After that, never had one anymore.

[@willh1655]

it's so weird how vastly different some people are. After years of training, I still get sore for about 4 to 8 days, depending on which muscle.

[@nohandskiller8912]

@@willh1655i think people who dont get spre are not training hard enough. I used to do like 9 sets of chest and not get sore. Now i go to failure and soreness is guaranteed

[@xTheParadox99]

​@@nohandskiller8912 I go to failure in every set and my growth has been steadily despite not getting absolutely sore every time. A little bit maybe 3 times a week but not brutally

[@nathanharvey9420]

I gave up on worrying about soreness. Im the best shape ever and i get little soreness to nothing at all

[@michaelcombs8367]

New exercise this Sunday. Definitely soreness kicked in todsy

[@Swhbucsfan]

I have been training for 8 months…lost 54 lbs and all my lifts have dramatically improved. I go to failure or near failure on every set and for most compound exercises usually got for 3-5 sets depending on volume that is more dependent at want rep I reach muscular failure or have almost reached muscular failure. I lift 5-6 days a week started with PPL then after 12 weeks switched to Lower Upper split. I haven’t been sore despite my best attempts since the first two months. I make sure my macros include at least 200 grams of protein a day while I am in a calories deficit to continue my recomp. I take creatine get as much rest as possible. I am 6’2” and currently 214lbs with approx 25% body fat. I want to continue my recomp while lifting and bring my body weight down to 195lbs

[@mostmandrake1608]

I like the power donut look, suits you

[@RationalMinded]

I think if you're sore after a workout, that's good, as it shows your body's threshold has been pushed. However, being crippled 2 days after the workout for the next week is a waste. You could've gotten another workout in for the same muscle group.

[@danieldanielson2324]

I use soreness for new movements. Really wanted to improve my lat pulldowns technique and the workout felt normal. Really accentuated the eccentric for my sets. My lats felt fine but the next day, I felt the soreness. Great indicator that I was hitting my lats well and that my form really was the trick to feel my lats more

[@TheSarenarass]

idk when i try focusing on eccentric for lat pulldowns i just feel it in my wrists

[@danieldanielson2324]

@@TheSarenarass what grip do you use? What weight do you use for how many sets and reps? Is it pain or fatigue? I feel it in my fingers because that’s just my grip fatiguing.

[@TheSarenarass]

@@danieldanielson2324 Overhand wide grip, Usually I actually do assisted lat pullups but for pulldowns it'd be around 60kg/132lb for 4 sets doing about 10-15 reps slow over a minute was what I used to do but my forearms would always burn out first and I found I felt it less in forearms if I went fast (like doing 15-20 reps in same time instead). I don't feel anything in fingers but will feel like I have to stop because forearms burn too much and sometimes I'll just have crazy forearm pump but small lat pump lol

[@Frinx2]

​@@TheSarenarass​@TheSarenarass You could try using a smaller rep range with more weight(6-10RM), explosive concentric(1sec), hold it for 2sec at the peak, smash your back, and a controlled eccentric for like 2-4s, dont hold your scaps, let it go all the way up and repeat

[@TheSarenarass]

@@Frinx2 aight. I'm on my deload week but I'll let you know how that goes soon, thanks for the advice 🙏

[@JGmoney88]

Shoulders for me is hard to decipher bad pain from soreness from fatigue. It’s lead me to injuries. Low weight doesn’t stimulate the muscle enough, yet the leverage the weight has on the joint is uncomfortable at points in the movement with proper form. My dad says we just have shitty shoulders. I guess I’ll never be able to get serious capped delts. I think time and finding what movements suit my physiology is key. For reference, I am 5’7, my reach is 58 in so I have long limbs (29 from inside shoulder to fingertip)

[@nicco6951]

When he says "do a little more could help" .. he means weight or reps or sets or all the aforementioned.

[@freddym6643]

You are what you train. That's why I train to failure.

[@sawyernorthrop4078]

I aim to feel it the next day but limit the discomfort the next day

[@sirhc4923]

I get sore everywhere but biceps and delts. I train the hell out of them too. My triceps are sore for about a half day. All with positive gains as well.

[@syphonjo9132]

I’ve been training consistently for 2 years now training HARD for the last year and some change. I still get sore. If you’re pushing your body to the max, soreness will become part of your routine imo. It’s important to realize that the issue with people nowadays are 1) we’re not as active as our previous ancestors. Even tho we go to the gym most of us still aren’t as active. 2) most people don’t eat like they’re supposed to. I’m not talking about a caloric deficit. Most people have that down pat. Most people just don’t eat enough. And 3) most people do not train hard. That’s a sad fact. I’ve been to many gyms and it is very rare that I see someone really nailing a workout. I do mean very rare. We all have our days where giving it our all really isn’t realistic. We aren’t robots. But most of your workouts should be balls to the walls intense imo, if your goal is to get big and jacked. Bc of these things, many “gym bros” don’t get the results they’re looking for. The rule of thumb (not science) has always been that soreness is an indicator that you had a good workout. I believe that to this day and I feel kinda let down if I don’t feel sore after a workout. I’ll also throw this in as a bonus: many people don’t understand how long it takes to actually master mind muscle connections. Shit takes time. And each muscle is like a different level. Im js because there are certain muscles that I am just now finding out how to properly contract and isolate 2 years into lifting. All of these things add up to gains if you ask me. I’m no scientist but I experiment with lifting like many of you do with video games and this is what I’ve learned so far.

[@rj5822]

FullBody 2-4/week 1 exercise per muscle. No soreness, energy levels are at a all time high, and gains/results are visually noticeable.

[@solaries8185]

I find it next to impossible to get my chest sore, which is my most developed muscles, while my quads get sore no matter how lightly I train them. Why is that?

[@estebanmanureva9233]

In my experience, I believe that there's a type of soreness that comes from your body adapting to the metabolic tax of any given new movement as a whole (nerve stimulation, blood pressure, hormonal balance, body coordination, breath coordination, joint contraction, mental focus, etc), which is essentially the body calibrating the general use of energy throughout the movement, thus being a more generalized soreness But there's a type of soreness that ONLY comes AFTER these metabolic adaptations are MET... after the body is able to reduce the general metabolic energy tax to its adaptive minimum and you become mentally aware of how to spread the general exertion of energy throughout the movement (which happens usually within a few weeks/months of frequent training of the given movement). THEN you enter a zone of comfort, a place where you can challenge your muscles to reach it's FAILURE for growth stimulation, and that happens through a balance between the increase of load (specific weight) and volume (repetitions). So it's more of a specific soreness to the muscles used in the given movement

[@thomaslindroos1667]

A question no one talks about is. Is it a guarantee of adequate stimulation and growth if I do get DOMS.

[@EQUINOXexcell]

Me trains calf’s then is forced to walk on my toes for the following week maybe a we bit sore

[@89kilemal]

Calves

[@alterego812]

My delts are sore everytime, muscle interruption, pumps, mind muscle connection always on top.

[@TheRealNickG]

Soreness should always set in the next day and not cause any other symptoms. If you are sore the same day, that is going to cause cramping and other signs of diminished performance AND only get worse.

[@needu4975]

Before I found this channel I never knew how few weight you need if you workout full rom and slow down.

[@DigBick-]

THANK YOU SOO MUCH Dr.Mike i will hit my shoulders harderd

[@SeyidAr]

After my last leg workout i couldn't get out of my car because my quads would cramp when my legs were extended. Pedestrians were looking at me as if i had a stroke or something. Weirldy enough i wasn't that sore after the workout. But if that cramping and the pump during the workout isn't a sign for me doing something right, i don't think i can grow muscle.

[@theevolutionofthebear3093]

Im doing full body workouts three times a week and I don't get sore. I've tried all the splits and been super sore but I never made the gains Im making now. 52 year old, totally natural. I use to think if I didn't get sore I wouldn't make gains, I was wrong.......for me.

[@andregomes3317]

I Only feel sore in The very first workout on that muscle after a long time. So for example if I dont train calves for a month and then come back to it, The days after I train for The first time Will hurt like hell to The point I have trouble walking The Next day and The day after that. But on subsequent workouts? No soreness. None. Doesnt mean I'm not fatigued though, it just doesnt hurt The days after like The first workout . Or if it does it's so minimal I almost dont notice it. I'm referring to delayed onset muscle soreness, not The soreness you get while you're exerting yourself .

[@danski6694]

In my experience, deltoids have always been the absolute most difficult body part to create soreness. Chest will be sore as hell after a few tough sets. Quads, hams, glutes will be destroyed from heavy squats. Lats, traps, and rhomboids the same. Deltoids? I can’t remember the last time they have been sore.

[@Derek8487]

Your front delts don't get sore from pressing exercises? Mine do .

[@MariaH20683]

My mid delts hardly become sore. My rear and front do.

[@danski6694]

@@Derek8487 not shoulder presses no.

[@ProphetFear]

Me too, but that changed when I started doing unconventional variations that caused way more muscle damage and used a lot more weight, than normal lateral raises and upright rows. After using exercises like that long enough I accrued enough muscle fibers in my side delts to cause good pumps and got DOMS from other lifts like upright rows and shoulder presses to the front and back. I have never been the biggest fan of lateral raises for generating muscle damage or getting sore. I've actually never liked them at all really.

[@danski6694]

@@ProphetFear I get awesome pumps when I do shoulders. I train them hard too. Usually about 5 sets of a heavy free weight press, then a bunch of lateral/front/rear fly type stuff. I superset a lot also. Just can never seem to be actually sore the next day.

[@thehubrisoftheunivris2432]

I only call it sore after the initial soreness from not working out too long. After that, i just feel kinda weak and puffy after working out. It's not really painful. And I'm confident I'm hitting them right.

[@JonahSwinton-fn2op]

Hey Mike, new shirt idea, "Not sore? Do more!" I'm too lazy to make a shirt, but if you made one I would give you a portion of a Lamborghini's worth.

[@tomoca1246]

I get sore everywhere but the delts, I like the feeling, for me it indicates a successful workout but it's kinda weird that I my delts never get sore and it feels like I can hit them every other day. I'm making great progress on my delts thought.

[@thatguymahad4685]

I don’t usually get sore but kinda weak where my body just can’t really handle lifting weights for 2-3 days after my 3 days on

[@crabby9305]

If by soreness you're referring to the muscle soreness that typically occurs within 2 days of training a particular muscle (DOMS) then yh I dont get sore. I used to, but not anymore, and im training each muscle much harder and with twice the frequency now than i did back when I used to get sore. I stopped experiencing soreness right around the time i decided to get serious about my nutrition and really dialed in on my macros

[@razvanbreazu4020]

5 years in the gym my legs and chest gets sore all the time ...i don't know why

[@kingcloud5131]

Added some extra depth to my 3 sets of squats. 4 days of DOMs. Maybe full ROM rather than more volume 😏

[@sreekalamanoj882]

All I know is inflammation is normally a prerequisite for muscle growth

[@ShivaShaktification]

Learn to love soreness

[@vilgothogberg4108]

Dude i trained with insane utterly insane david goggins intensity on shoulders they still dont get doms arms too

[@noobynoob6856]

I just stopped getting sore after a few months

[@TheNefastor]

I can't believe this has to be said, but at least you said it well.

[@user-cf6fk1eu2v]

I just switched from a heavy weight longer rest program. To a short rest lighter weight program. And I feel so sore after these workouts but nothing on heavy workouts?

[@shawnsmith4692]

I've been training for about 5yrs. For me there's a direct correlation between soreness and gains. The more sore I am, the faster the muscle grows. And those muscle groups I can never make sore, see almost no growth. That's been my experience anyway.

[@imuw5408]

From the books I've read and techniques learned and applied, your statement is the defacto. Just a couple years myself, and consistently changing to compensate for body adaptation and chasing the pump/DOMS, I've outpaced and caught up to those that have been lifting for many more years than me.

[@kilkoykil71]

Is it the case that a lack of pumps and doms are a sign of over training/lack of recovery?

[@tarzbaow]

Asking to advanced lifters. If you Train to failure, very intense, and add weights and / or reps each session, are you still sore, even after years/decades of intense training ?

[@successfulusername]

This is like the myth of overtraining. Don’t use it as an excuse not to push yourself, you are not likely to be at the level of overtraining.

[@faijaff7731]

Took it to failure literally the hairline 🎉

[@mortarion9787]

Listening to this while i got a nasty arms soreness 😂

[@k.m.9801]

The only way I get sore is by doing myoreps. For me the present pump and the soreness later is proof that stimulus is happening.

[@Jack567898]

I trained less and got sore. It was weird

[@fiiingerz]

There's a painful soreness and a juicy pump feeling type of soreness , one feels good the other hurts , when the soreness hurts and is making working out un enjoyable , that's when u need to rest and eat enough to let ur body catch up before training it again I know people want to get as big and shredded as fast as possible so taking a day off or slowing down is really hard to do because ur impatient. But in reality slowing down and taking the day off or training other muscles while those recover , is going to get u bigger faster I preach this Eat and sleep as hard as u train But don't eat hard WITHOUT training 😂 simple as that

[@dylanschweitzer18]

I'll feel my hamstrings for like a full week! I have abnormally tight hamstrings, not sure what to do

[@ziggymorris8760]

I’m always sore and my pumps are always good

[@potapotapotapotapotapota]

I always get sore after doing full ROM with exercises

[@tristan10880]

How are you gonna know ur at failure if ur not getting at least somewhat sore in the muscle?

[@savannahportell22]

More? Like upping the weight maybe?

[@thegoldenfret123456]

what if my technique is just bad and i dont know it?

[@Foggydew931]

I tell my girl this all the time. But im not in the gym

[@FiloYappins]

Soreness actually is a sign of increased endurance and stamina. Pushing yourself past the point is how you gain long winded ability.

[@Vorhees_the_great]

I train with my dad and he never seems to get sore

[@theycallme_D]

more pain more gain

[@daniele7]

I get sore after every gym day

[@nocosquidsquadairsoft8842]

Great knowledge from a muscular George Costanza 😂😜

[@antonylynn7783]

I don't know I worked my Lats till they are sore.

[@AD-jc9sj]

Should You train sore?

[@danielferdel]

Ive been increasing weight and growing but!! My forearms have been sore for months now im trying to massagge them with a spoon 😅 kinda works, any recomendation??

[@ZimtMilchreis]

You can tell me what you want.i train for 32 yrs.i tell you that.if you want gains train so that youre soreness is so that you cant train the same muscle in 4 days.eat eat eat and sleep a lot and you get realy big

[@aidenhoogstra8636]

So say I train multiple sets to failure on a muscle twice weekly, and I’m just never sore?

[@big_slime8419]

I just look in the mirror and say "damn im swole". For example. When i spent 6 months only looking at my stubborn biceps. I subsequently didnt notice hiw big my lats and chest were getting. Once i noticed i said "damn, im swole" ....now my biceps are bigger. Thats science.

[@p0lter7]

Im just here because I destroyed my triceps and I am not sure how I am going to serve in my tennis match tonight. Oh boy

[@rosemarietolentino3218]

I like the days when we had real food and did not need to pay attention to what we were eating. We could eat whatever we wanted and still got ripped. Now most food has estrogen mimics in them…

[@milesvallejo2684]

When did joe Rogan grow hair

[@eduardosuarez2414]

But if you ARE sore, does that mean you're definitely growing?

[@Oi-mj6dv]

People cant grow traps. Then they start high pull snatch grup cleans and first thing they notice is an absolute annihilation and trap soreness like no tomorrow. Then traps start to grow. I wonder how people claim soreness is not a great clue as to if what you are doing will elicit gains..

[@mazaroth7]

Thats why in my opinion its better to go by a program than how sore you are. Soreness is not conclusive, numbers are though.

[@aznstride4325]

Hey Dr Mike. I understand a lot of exercise science at this point but I’m a Fat Mofo that rarely goes to the gym. So No one listens to my advice, any tips? 😂 (also for myself I already have this wealth of knowledge about exercise science and optimal ways to train and diet, but can’t apply it to myself because I’m lazy, and could never make myself consistently train for more than 2.5 months straight… I think that for a lot of people it’s the mental that’s the hurdle to getting them to the place they want, and not necessarily because they don’t know the most optimal way to get there For example me: I see people train stupidly, and I’m sure you’ll agree, but they’re jacked and been training more longer than me and consistently, and I have no right to correct them w/ any knowledge I have bc I haven’t applied it to myself (even tho I think I understand the science clearly as well) csn you make videos about motivation and discipline to stay consistent..

[@TimBee100]

If you're doing HIT to failure, what more can you do?

[@cdg8319]

Rest

[@VandalIO]

Is this true

[@1_amIcy]

Same logic as: "It takes 3 wipes to know you needed 2, and 2 wipes to know you need 3".

[@GWCC21]

Why does he look like Tony Soprano in his clip?

[@AlfredoWilliams-mf6em]

since when does mike have hair

[@zukyozelf7144]

i feel like our guy could've gone rampant on this subject matter :D but he kept it PG

[@TooBurst-ce5ig]

Long story short, if you ever finish a set and every fiber of your being is screaming to put the weights down.... you did it right. If that didnt happen.... you did it wrong. Period. Its that simple. Ive never once in 20 years of high level training, ever finished a set with enough energy to do even 1 more rep. Ever. Do better

[@Pump_Junkie]

Wait if myuscle hasn't grown I'm not growing muscle how many edibles did you eat before the video 😂

[@shivadumahnesht4522]

I have nerve damage and have been training for about 2 years with it and any time I unlock a new muscle group i abuse the fuck out of it so it's sore for days and easy for me to get to activate again.

[@PeterParkerwon]

This dude has/had hair?! I’m shocked 😂

[@saxonsteve]

Go Brutal or Go Home!!!

[@teamyosista]

Let the hair go

[@OneBigHandle]

I was so distracted seeing hair... On your head. I couldn't have imagined, The color, cut, and everything is just so odd to see

[@thesig301]

If you’re a consistent gym goer, you shouldn’t be getting much soreness.

[@ogrebrmm]

Jean luc