Why TLOU Part II is my Favorite Stealth Game of the 2020's

The Last of Us Part II is still regularly talked about four years after release, but most of those discussions focus on the story as opposed to the gameplay. In this video, I make a case for why I believe that it is not only a solid stealth game, but is in fact one of the best stealth games of the decade. In an era where stealth in games has gotten somewhat stale, the Last of Us II sets itself apart in its desire to push the genre's boundaries.
Contents:
00:00 Intro
01:54 The Horror of Stealth
04:56 AI That Doesn't Feel Like AI
08:12 A Puzzle With Many Solutions
11:23 Respecting the Stealth Genre
Cited:
The Last of Us 2 | A Creative Massacre | John Wick Aggression [Grounded] | JoHnNyX
• The Last of Us 2 | A C...
MGS3 Extreme - Ocelot Unit sweep A.I | Rex Zakel
• MGS3 Extreme - Ocelot ...
Analysing the AI of The Last of Us Part II | AI and Games #70 | AI and Games
• Analysing the AI of Th...
Music Used:
Home | The Last of Us OST
The Path (A New Beginning) | The Last of Us OST
All Gone (No Escape) | The Last of Us OST
Theme Song | The Last of Us OST
The Choice | The Last of Us OST
Beyond Desolation | The Last of Us Part II OST

[@henrryeaeaea]

The discussion around TLOU2 has revolved so much about it's story that I always felt that people don't grasp how mechanically deep the game is

[@Indigo_1001]

Absolutely, The amount of people I seen say TLoU2 gameplay is bad and that it “plays itself” it’s mine blowing

[@nickhard7615]

I feel like the gameplay alone is why it deserved all of them awards

[@BlueRanger57]

Although you could argue it clashes against the game's themes, I've been enjoying the Roguelite mode for that very reason. Combat is tense, but runs don't go on for more than an hour or so.

[@civilwarfare101]

Welcome to the "gaming community" where story, visuals, and dialogue discussion regin over anything gameplay related. Truth be told, most people who talk about games don't like talking about gameplay.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@bogjesrbin484 I’m sorry but this was NEVER true to ANY game. Since forever people ALWAYS said that “gameplay is more important then story” in all my years they was ALWAYS the sentiment . But for the first time ever with TLoU2 people are suddenly saying “story as as important” give me a break with this had fair criticism

[@user-eg8yc8ew2b]

I was so nervous during my first playthrough I always caught myself taking huge sighs of relief after an encounter was over lol

[@Tourettes42069]

lol true

[@Michael-mz1bg]

No other game made my heart race like this one

[@IoeYabuki-jn8uc]

@@Michael-mz1bg boutta play LOu2 after finishing part 1, which is my favorite game of all time. REsident evil 2 is my seocond favorte

[@grahamiest]

TLOU2's gameplay is so incredible. The shooting and stealth transition so seamlessly, the combat arenas are dynamic, and the survival horror resource management heightens the tension in an already stressful game. Super happy to see you covering this!

[@elysianpositron661]

Even if you think the story is a 0/10, Part 2 wipes the floor with Part 1 in every other category.

[@TheHiddenOne690]

yes yes yes! TLOU2 is such a great stealth game. Pretty underappreciated in a way too

[@elusivent]

You should cover it on your channel

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

If only story wasn’t dog shit

[@salesir6502]

the best stealth game?? did you forget Gollum came out after 2020?

[@DarthTingleBinks]

I think the word he used is favorite. Very different word, if you didn't know.

[@glibchubik4090]

Bro I know you're joking but that game closes the studio 😭

[@chrisj320ac3]

@DarthTingleBinks /whoosh

[@DarthTingleBinks]

@@chrisj320ac3 How can I do a whoosh if I had insufficient knowledge to do a whoosh. I don't even know what Gollum is. I was just correcting the language.

[@eoinsmith15]

@@DarthTingleBinks That's why you don't comment and reply to people when you have insufficient knowledge

[@oukeith]

The general gameplay for TLOU2 is incredible and doesnt get much appreciation because people crap on the story so much.

[@nickhard7615]

The Last of Us 2 is the closest to a Manhunt 3 we'll ever get and it's my favorite for it

[@madalindragan9569]

I always said that because everyone was so focused on the story of the 2 tlou games, they didn't notice they were playing manhunt. Even more than that, Factions is a manhunt multiplayer. Best multiplayer ever! Forever sad that we didn't get another one

[@christopherregan1654]

The Last Of Us is also the closest to a Condemned Criminal Origins sequel that we'll ever get.

[@tomparkin2068]

Oooh, I’ve never even looked at this game with that context. Very interesting idea. Personally to me it feels like Snake Eater 2, but yeah I can definitely get behind that too.

[@ethanhernandez9889]

Ellie even basically wears the same outfit as Cash in manhunt 1

[@tomparkin2068]

@@ethanhernandez9889 ahhh no way, I never even clocked the similarity!

[@jaysonagli6210]

Closest thing to MGSV since it's release in 2015, and nothing else is even in the same space. No Return mode has been an excellent addition to allow us to fully utilize its systems.

[@tomparkin2068]

Right?! There were times when I thought I was playing a remake of MGS3. No Return was a very well done way of spicing things up.

[@thelastpersononearth9765]

Hitman WOA and TLOU2 are pretty much the only newer games with high focus on stealth. Maybe count AC Mirage as well

[@idestructiiion1337]

Its better since there is hand to hand combat aspect aswell and advanced AI

[@nood1le]

Metal Gear is a wack ass game

[@jaysonagli6210]

@@nood1le I disagree strongly but to each their own

[@MikeVestering]

I agree this is SUCH a great stealth game I love how it feels so visceral. Your decisions in every moment feel so important and both patience and strategy are encouraged sooo well. The brutality and sadness of it all also really adds to the whole experience of being alone and scared fighting against the humanity of both your opponents and yourself!

[@SidPhoenix2211]

See, this is why I am often confused when some folks say that Abby's section of the gameplay is better cuz it's got more setpiece or traditional action. Cuz to me what TLoU is really about, from a gameplay perspective, is underdog stealth action. And the encounters that Ellie has (especially the ones set in a large arena with a lot of human enemies) are straight up the best instances of gameplay.The levels, the loadout, and even Ellie's vibe... They all lend themselves PERFECTLY to top-tier, intense stealth-action Especially on harder difficulties, that stuff is TENSE. Love both games ✨❤️

[@nood1le]

Well both sections are different so it just comes down to preference.

[@niccoloconticelli6117]

The "discourse" around the story of this game succeeded to bury the fact that the gameplay of tlou2 is one of the best things TO talk about this game. Especially at grounded difficulty the game really shines. One of the best panic inducing-stealth experience out there. Too many people talk about the feature of enemy calling themselves names to invoke some sort of guilt in the player and completely fail to address the fantastic and realistic way the AI tend to respond to the player actions. It makes you feel as close as fighting against other humans not only in hearing them talk but also in behavior (obviously in game terms. it will be realistic up to a certain point or no game otherwise). I've done my first playthrough on grounded and although i recognize that this is not the way will suggest anyone to experience it, it Shure was the perfect way for a stealth fan. Especially because is the first time, the high difficulty increased the panic of not knowing against how many people i was facing, the exact route to go, that was more horror that any monster at any giving time. i had no resource and i had to make it do. really great experience.

[@niccoloconticelli6117]

and even if it was a tech demo can i not appreciate the tech?. I respect your opinion but to me art is multy layered and especially games are made from so many parts that even if -A- part of it is uninspiring or insufficient that not equal to an overall bad experience. :) @@bogjesrbin484

[@Indigo_1001]

@@bogjesrbin484 My dude SINCE WHEN you can’t enjoy a games good gameplay because of the story? You are telling me you never enjoyed a game that had great gameplay and a bad story. You gamers are so fake

[@civilwarfare101]

@@bogjesrbin484 You don't play tech demos last I checked. If you want a good story, watch a show or movie.

[@jorgewithaj98]

@@Indigo_1001not when it’s a story-driven game. I agree with you but I also get the other person’s point of view.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@jorgewithaj98 But it’s still a game in the end of the day. I didn’t like the story, was hard to sit through but I really liked the gameplay. I replayed it skipping all the cutscene and just going through the counters.

[@imjustagirlnotathreat2289]

I totally agree on TLOU2. Stealth and survival horror are my favorite genres and i hate how stealth games have faded into obscurity.

[@cutunconscious4265]

The stealth in this game is great. Every encounter is a giant puzzle. I love getting through entire encounters without killing a single enemy on Grounded Permadeath. It is its own kind of high. I’ve seen dozens of unique strategies for every encounter.

[@slickstar96]

People say TLOU 2 gameplay is outdated and it brings nothing new to the table in terms of a sequel but in that same sentence complain that same gameplay is not in the remake. so which one is it outdated or not...? people cannot put their hate for the story aside...

[@Indigo_1001]

When they say “it bought nothing to the table as a sequel” I really wonder what imaginary video game sequels they have in their head when they say that For a sequel is dramatically improved in the base foundation of the first game. It’s like every time TLoU2 is brought up I am transported on a parallel reality with standards are completely backwards

[@maboilaurence8227]

The good criticism is that although the gameplay is very good, Naughty Dog has relied on the same formula in their games for like more than a decade now, so it's far from innovative. But hey, if it works it works I guess. Those who say the game is not good from a technical point of view are just wrong, it's undeniably good, and this is coming from someone who didn't enjoy the game at all due to the bad writing and dialogues.

[@nood1le]

Come on man we've been playing games for years now. You should know by now all games are the same just with a new coat of paint. Rarely do we get those innovative games.

[@wrath495]

It's fun to see a video solely about the gameplay of the game. I clocked in 300 hours on this game, I did 3 playthroughs, 1 of them a failed permadeath one, but where most of those hours were spent, was simply choosing my favorite encounters of the game with the best lvl design and challenging myself in different ways when playing them. It's incredibly surprising but also satisfying how well the stealth and action gameplay are merged together with the player being able to smoothly transition from one to the other in real time, thanks to that incredible ai. It's also helps a ton with immersion when playing, you feel like what you would assume a survivor would feel when inhabiting this world, taking whatever enemy you absolutely have to head on, running for your life into some grass underneath a bed or a car, while frantically going through your inventory trying to craft something that will help you and give you a small window of opportunity again with whatever you found on your way to your hiding spot. Whats so impressive is that while animations are slow, when a player knows what he's doing, you can make all of these actions look so smooth and cinematic, you won't really find gameplay quite like it anywhere else. This game's gameplay massively exceeded my expectations and helped immerse me in the world and its characters way more than I expected it to!

[@dudu_tuga_2002]

This game is my favourite, it's actually crazy how a non stealth game can have better stealth than most stealth games. For me TLoU has one of the most satisfying gameplays ever, I also love the story, but that's irrelevant for this topic. Loving this vids Jay, thank you for doing them!

[@merk2364]

I've always thought it was strange how people would just write off the gameplay of last of us 2 as outdated when as a sequel to the first the gameplay was a pretty large upgrade.

[@JJJ-uo2xb]

As someone who absolutely hated the story of this game, I still beat it 4 times because it is in my top 3 best feeling shooters of all time. The gunplay is perfect, the AI can be down right oppressive on higher difficulties, and the enemy variation is top notch. Love the rogue like mode they added on the PS5 "remaster" ha

[@Nonexistentialism]

I particularly love the way the enemies in the Last of Us II hunt you down. Insulting you, being cheap and vicious. It’s just a brutal game, and I think it reinforces the themes the story is going for, of empathizing with pain, but realizing that more pain doesn’t create a better world.

[@jimmymurphy898]

It's my favorite game of the 2020s period. Absolute masterpiece narratively and gameplay wise. Not as good as Rdr2 imo but then I remembered that came out in 2018 lol.

[@Mattened]

Better than RDR2, both the combat and story.

[@jimmymurphy898]

@@Mattened Ehh not in my opinion. I prefer the storyline of Rdr2 by quite a lot. Arthur Morgan and the rest of the members of the Van Der Linde gang are my favorite videogame characters ever and I prefer the slower pace of Rdr2 over Tlou2. Is the gunplay of Tlou2 more satisfying? I would say yes but I prefer literally everything else in Red Dead. All the subtle interactions with npcs and having so much depth with every character even minor ones like Hamish Sinclair, the veteran. Amazing game but Tlou2 would have been better in my opinion if it slowed down more like Red Dead. I wanted the dance in Jackson with Ellie and Dina at the end to be more than a cutscene. In Rdr2 you can dance with Mary Beth in chapter 2 during a camp party and it's part of the gameplay.

[@halpamakkara5438]

I must say that I look forward to every single video that you make. TLOU 2 is a nice suprise, keep up the good work!

[@Whyisme23]

The one gripe I have with TLOU2's gameplay is that weapon upgrades just feel so unimpactful, especially in grounded. I think this is just because Naughty dog wanted to implement a RE4 style upgrade system but the slow and methodical combat in TLOU2 just doesn’t compliment it well.

[@AKblackandredYT]

Great video. I've talked about the gameplay and game design in TLOU a lot, and as someone currently taking on grounded permadeath challenges it's something of a special interest, so it's great to see such an insightful discussion of it here.

[@TheRealScurred]

great work jay

[@enman009]

Your observations about horror and stealth are so spot on, since Thief The Dark Project used horror through environmental storytelling, which contextualized the gameplay. As for the stealth not being talked about enough, I think it is because a lot of the TLoU2 is cutscenes or on rails tailing sequences. Which makes encounters 1/3 of the game or far less.

[@thedeepball]

Hey Jay, I just want to say thank you for making these videos. It's wonderful to see someone really go in depth the way you do consistently, combined with the beautiful presentation from the smooth and relevant visuals down to your ASMR-like tone of voice. Please keep it up! Also, could you one day make a video about Assassin's Creed Odyssey? I've made it through 2/3 of your videos now and nearly all the AC ones which was the initial draw for me, and you've mentioned Odyssey several times in a few of them. I started playing AC in 2011 shortly after Revelations came out, I saw its trailer and went back to the first Assassin's Creed and had a blast playing through that and the Ezio trilogy, and I've kept up with the series since then. I have enjoyed every mainline game, some more than others, and I've definitely loved a few. My personal favorites (so far) are Brotherhood, Black Flag, and Odyssey. I like your videos regarding some of the unfortunate negative aspects of the series (i.e. Unity, Valhalla), and how you keep a level head and never fail to point out the positives as well. But I also enjoy your videos where you point out the positives and the things you like (i.e. Syndicate), and your videos where you ask questions and dive deep into trying to find the answers. I guess the common thread here is just that I like your videos and I'm always excited for more. But specifically I'd love to see you cover Odyssey more than any other because as you've noted before, Odyssey caused a particular rift in the AC community more than any other in the series (at least from my perspective), and as I noted, it's one of my personal favorites. I'm not sure what your take would be overall even though it seems that you enjoyed that game too, but no matter what it is, I'm interested to find out and to see someone discuss it at the caliber that you do. I apologize that this isn't related to the topic you covered in this particular video, but I figured you'd be more likely to see this given that this is your most recent output. Regardless of what you decide to do, I'm excited as always to see what you'll do next. Thanks again Jay, and do take care of yourself 😊

[@sosaysjay]

That is all very kind of you, thank you. Odyssey is the game that got me through the pandemic, I couldn’t get enough of it when I first played it. Initially I skipped it due to lack of interest at that time in my life, but a couple years later I was very happy I picked it up. It’s on my list of videos I want to make. I’m not sure if it’ll come soon as I have some other things I’ve been working on, but I’m sure it’ll pop up as a topic regardless.

[@thedeepball]

@@sosaysjay I mean every word, and thank you for taking the time to respond! I don't expect you to do so with each comment I make, but I'll appreciate when you do. You had said previously that you played through Odyssey 3 times and experimented with the stealth mechanics differently each time. I was amazed because while I loved that game, it took me around 120 hours to do everything in it, but knowing now that it got you through the pandemic, I finally see how that was possible. No rush at all, I'm relieved to hear that you have a list of videos you want to make because that means I get to learn and digest more from you so that's an absolute win. But should you get to that one eventually, I intend to be right there to thank you again. I hope all goes well and you continue to enjoy making these great videos, as well as the fruits of your labor

[@unioneye1087]

I hope this video pops off because i like Jay

[@thomasyoung2201]

Whoa! I like Jay too

[@niccoloconticelli6117]

man i can't wait i too like jay

[@billydrink]

I find it curious that you didn't mention the batman arkham games. I suppose they don't fit your definition of "traditional stealth" but the sheer amount of tools and approaches open the way for so much creativity, especially in knight which isn't even 10 years old.

[@sosaysjay]

I have discussed Arkham in my other videos, but this video was specifically to discuss the lack of stealth games in the 2020s

[@Moonshine449]

@@sosaysjayYou should definitely check out the Dishonored series

[@sosaysjay]

@@Moonshine449 I've fully platinumed the Dishonored series

[@Moonshine449]

@@sosaysjay W I’d say its in my top 10 game franchises

[@sosaysjay]

@@Moonshine449 It's a good one. Which one is your favorite? I think I lean toward Dishonored 2 for the crack in the slab and the clockwork mansion.

[@Weighty68]

TLOU2 is one of my top 3 favorite games of all time and I appreciate you making a vid highlighting just how finely tuned its systems are to making an immaculate stealth-action experience. It's crazy how this game is a culmination of all the lessons Naughty Dog, as a studio, has learned across decades yet it still feels wholly, originally its own even when compared to the first game or its remake. Certain additions like prone or the dodge or finally letting infected and human encounters happen unlike the first game (outside of Left Behind) really lend it a feel unlike any other especially when considered alongside the emotional core of its narrative. I just love how Ellie and Abby have different gameplay motives that are eeked out of players by incentivizing them to take advantage of their arsenal and semi-roleplaying the way Ellie or Abby would consider tackling an encounter themselves. Masterful stuff.

[@Garbageman28]

genuinely some of the most fun/well designed levels of any third person shooter imho. Its wild because Uncharted is like the furthest dissoance i've had with playing a character and tlou2 is the closest. Just mentally calcuating if i've enough bullets to take out these two wlfs approaching, if i'll have to make bombs, do i have the time to make said bombs etc. SO so so so good.

[@christopherregan1654]

Uncharted is more of an over-the-top setpiece-focused 3rd-person action cover shooter series, whereas The Last Of Us is definitely more of a hardcore strategic survival horror stealth series.

[@mgabravanel]

Common So Says Jay W

[@jierdareisa4313]

I love ALL So Says Jay videos!!!! ❤

[@nickb7998]

Metal gear triangle is about to blow this guy's mind

[@sosaysjay]

Here’s hoping. I’ve played MG3 more times than I can count to Foxhound rank, but Konami isn’t the company it used to be. I do hope it shows out.

[@glibchubik4090]

People have been waiting for different ports of Sony games, me personally tho- TloU2 is where it's at. Not only does it look like the most polished third person shooter (a dying breed of games nowadays) since Max Payne 3, the stealth also seemed like something fun to play. Glad you brought up the gameplay, because as you said, conversations around the game are primarily story-focused, it's not always like we're discussing a movie and not a damn videogame 😂

[@kittylemeu1373]

Fun fact, when doing a stealth kill, moving the analog stick makes your character adjust their kill in thad direction, moving in the direction you press.

[@michael04__806]

Yeah I agree with everything you've said. Recently beat both games back to back, finishing Part I for first time on Grounded, and Part II for the first time ever - on hard mode. I'm now contemplating replaying Part II on grounded as an excuse to experience it again, like this really shows how addicting both the story and gameplay is.

[@echo12345ish]

A TLoU 2 discussion not about the gameplay? Fuck yes, one of the most underrated gameplay systems of the past 5 years

[@cameron2345]

As usual, incredible job Jay. I always love your videos. I wanted to ask you what your thoughts are for assassins creed shadows? I’m cautiously excited, but I want to see gameplay first

[@sosaysjay]

I appreciate that, thank you. As of now I am also waiting to see gameplay, as a CG trailer and basic info is really nothing to go on. I look forward to stealth improvements, but I have my doubts that parkour and urban environments will be up to par. I hope to see those showcased

[@Mattened]

I still play this game's encounters all the time. Such satisfying gameplay, especially on grounded.

[@moisesfreire6408]

A Plague Tale Requiem is another fairly good recent pure stealth game. Is not as mechanically advanced as TLOU part II - yet VERY pretty - but one single guard can track you down for the entire map if they find a recently killed corpse not forgetting like many games. But if you manage to make the rats kill the enemy the rest would not try to find you since it was an "accident".

[@colinernest3925]

i've been playing this game a lot again recently, MGS5 is my favorite stealth game but I think this game fulfills a very different kind of stealth game play more focused on hand to hand combat and close up intensity. A lot of the combat encounters do have some issues where I think It's easy to reveal the games scripting once you've gotten really good at the game, but the encounters are still incredible and unlike any other game. BTW I played this game on survivor when it came out because grounded wasn't available yet, but definitely play this game on it's hardest difficulty except for maybe with resources. A lot of times playing this I can't help but react to getting hit because of how tense it feels. Also loved the more open ended encounters, I heard about how they originally wanted the game to be less linear and more about exploring Seattle. I almost wish we could've gotten that game because it sounds so fun.

[@booker229]

thanks for saying everything I've thought about this for years

[@samletsplaygames]

easily dive go prone. Hide in grass, while prone. Hid under cars. Corner take downs. I think the mark of a good steath game is how easily you can re enter stealth after being discovered, and Last of Us Part 2 nails it.

[@mkwsoxfan]

The combat is what makes me feel addicted to the last of us, while most people are talking about story and writing the gameplay is simple yet engaging. I knew when I played the subway tunnel encounter where it's WLF vs Ellie vs Infected that this game was different. I grabbed a wlf hostage and held him until an infected came up to us and you literally feed the wlf to the clicker. They literally thought of everything in terms of freedom in the sandbox. There isn't a million guns/utilities/abilities you just get a handful of each and it's executed beautifully

[@usmanzubair742]

The most underrated aspect of this game was the gameplay afterall. People got frantic with the story ignoring the revolutionary gameplay in the process

[@Waddehaddeduddedaa]

True words. TLoU II is such a unique game, its gameplay quality is still unmatched I think. I'm surprised of how little of it has been implemented in other games that came out after it.

[@jojonr619]

I’ve been trying to get 100% trophy completion in few playthroughs which means I’ve been doing a grounded new game plus play through with Permadeath on (per chapter because I’m not a masochist) and I’ve grown a huge appreciation for everything surrounding the combat and gameplay of the last of us too. I have never been more immersed and stressed out in a video game. And while I’m only halfway through my play through I am so very excited. For the next naughty dog game to take the stealth/combat/shooting even further

[@K4sut0]

I really like how you put into words what I always thought, mechanically I really liked the game the other is a discussion the Internet had ad nauseam

[@daninogil]

And..... I was right nice to know you remembered my comment from months ago

[@blinded2329]

Finally someone who appreciates this games mechanic as much as i do

[@Pedro-xz6wt]

on grounded permadeath, this isn't a game, it's a test of your wit and soul.

[@allandm]

The no return mode really shows how amazing the gameplay is

[@SaberRexZealot]

I think the first game was also a really cool anomaly when it came to stealth guerrilla gameplay as well - when played on Grounded it’s a really fun challenge. Part 2 is even more refined in its systems. Both of these games never got the appreciation they deserved for the gameplay alone.

[@elusivent]

The AI doesn't get praised enough, especially the enemy AI like the wolfs or the scars/seraphites. Thats some of the BEST ive seen. Edit: i commented before watching. Im glad to see you cover the AI

[@furjaden8553]

Where it's no where near as difficult, the Deus Ex games are quite strong in their stealth aspects. I'd be interested to hear your opinion on them

[@sosaysjay]

I have unfortunately not played much of them, but they have been on my list

[@furjaden8553]

@@sosaysjay I'd highly recommend Human Revolution before any of the others, but Mankind Divided by far has the most open, vertical & expansive paths. One could get lost in it's maps despite being so compact.

[@sosaysjay]

@@furjaden8553 I've heard great things about the world design of Mankind Divided but yeah, I do prefer to play things in release order

[@urbiznesnunuv6938]

Once I played a game before the release of the last of us part 2 by a studio other than a game by naughty dog- specifically the rise of the tomb raider I realized no game has ever done this level of stealth and ai before and has created a new standard for both in my opinion.

[@n8dawg85]

The game truly is legit a stealth masterpiece. It's underrated in this way and isn't bloated with mechanics like all the 'best' stealth games. Not to mention any in particular 😂

[@AndersHass]

Now I am curious to try it out just for the stealth

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

The game is garbage dont play it

[@DanFarrell98]

Especially on Grounded the stealth mechanics are so fun and the overall gameplay is incredible

[@jesustyronechrist2330]

Honestly, the #1 thing that I NEVER hear anybody talk about stealth games which is one of the most fun parts about them: Voyerism. Best parts of any stealth game is just skulking and eavesdropping the random conversations the enemies have. Chaos Theory and new Hitman do this wonderfully. I don't think most stealth games leverage this at all. They just have enemies "patrolling" instead of living.

[@user-tu9sm6ub1x]

Sekiro does this pretty well.

[@MINTY_FN]

Given the discourse around the game I avoided it when it came out (it was just tiring) but I picked it up earlier this year and it was a treat. The animations are brutal and satisfying, the guns feel powerful, the sound design is fantastic, and the need to balance stealth and aggressive play to get thorugh situations while managing resources feels rewarding and hectic. I have some issues with how it handles resource gathering on higher difficulties (picking up a gun with one bullet in it after like 20 minutes of looting gets old fast) but damn is the combat/stealth satisfying. You mention at the start the confusion with the genre on wikipedia and the like and that's totally true. Action Adventure doesn't quite fit but I wouldn't call it a survival horror game either. It almost feels like a Metal Gear game wearing the skin of a survival horror game at times.

[@omelfilip]

Gonna have to insert an opinion, Horizon, at least the sequel Forbidden West, has greatly expanded stealth gameplay and the human AI are also incredibly smart and aware of their circumstances. I would encourage you to explore more of Horizon's stealth gameplay because there's truly so much depth to it.

[@Indigo_1001]

I would encourage for you to play TLoU2 on grounded to see some real good enemy AI

[@sygyzy0933]

What recent stealth games are you comparing it to? We haven't gotten any since like dishonored 2. Stealth in other games like ghost and whatnot to me isn't too comparable because that game is open world and story driven and isn't solely focused on the same game play loop as tlou2. It's kind of in a league of its own with the first game since they're both linear story driven survival stealth games. Maybe you could say it competes with something like splinter cell blacklist which is super old. I guess we just need more new stealth games really, it's a drought out here for us stealth fans, we've been playing the same games over and over again lmao

[@pkslush]

the worst thing about the first game's remake was the fact that they didn't rework the levels to work with crawling and didn't even allow joel to dodge either. would've improved that game by so much, it's unbelievable.

[@sosaysjay]

I cut a section in this video about that for time, but I agree. Despite legitimate changes to the enemy AI and the graphical rework, the game feels entirely the same and wasn’t worth full price. Adding the dodge, prone, and jumping still wouldn’t have made it worth full price, but it would have required structural changes to the level design like you said. That would have been way more work than they seemed interested than doing, but it could have gone a long way toward making the game feel like a remake as opposed to barely more than a remaster.

[@Indigo_1001]

I hate that the game was sold at full price, but other then that I liked that they retained the core gameplay the same while incorporating the smoothness and responsiveness of TLoU2

[@Mattened]

@@Indigo_1001 I agree. The spaces you fight in, and amount of enemies doesn't really justify them adding dodge. It would make the game a bit too easy. They said they tested it w/ dodge and it just didn't work well. I trust that decision.

[@pkslush]

​@@Mattened idk i feel any game with melee combat that has no reliable way to avoid damage, be it a block, dodge, parry whatever, can rot in hell 😅

[@sosaysjay]

I think my feeling on that is that since the game was remade from the ground up and not just a remaster I would have preferred the spaces and enemy density be brought up to modern standard instead of the gameplay being left the same. Still, I 100%ed the remake within a couple days, was more than happy to go back to it, just felt like a missed opportunity and a product I could only recommend at full price to hardcore fans like myself. Otherwise the old remaster is honestly still really strong.

[@diamond_dogs]

This game scratched the itch I had after MGS ended

[@help533]

Last of us 2 is interesting in the sense of its better in literally every single way compared to the first game in terms of gameplay. But it's still one of the most contentious sequels ever made. Never seen a game people hate or love more

[@burrito4]

I don't understand why people act like the gameplay is bad so thank you for this video

[@Indigo_1001]

Cause they didn’t play it and have to hate on the game with the buffed lady

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

Because the gameplay is exactly the same as tlou1 but now you can go prone and dodge and there isn’t even multiplayer in tlou2 and tlou1 ps5 stop dick riding

[@Ic3h0rnEt14]

The gameplay is quite good. Would have made an excellent multiplayer game I bet…

[@Mattened]

Still gutted about the multiplayer. If they'd fix the egregious exploits and bugs in the first game's MP, I'd go back to it.

[@henrihai1940]

I absolutely love part 2s story but the stellar gameplay is what made me put 600 hours in it

[@KOOPA-lucid]

It has really good stealth system and very good AI but i will always prefer splinter cell: chaos theory in term of stealth game

[@magnumopus1403]

And what’s your favorite stealth game of 2021?

[@kittylemeu1373]

It should be noted that Naughty Dog is now working towards zero crunch! The remaster and remake were both made without it

[@goodhoonter9882]

Id love if naughty dog made legitimately great walking dead game or two its right up their alley with how last of us appearently plsys like

[@Indigo_1001]

My make a Walkign Dead game when they just created their own more unique zombie franchise

[@Rockport1911]

Well its not MGSV but certainly a good game with great gameplay. However I still respect anyone who says that they dont like its story and only play Ellies parts over and over, its just like that. I kinda wanted to have more of Part2´s elements in the Part1 Remake but ND played it very safe here and changed nothing about mechanics or level design. AI is pretty good in both titles and can suprise more than a few times, sometimes throuch spawn trickery sometimes with genuine searching and finding you.

[@Para-null]

Solid gameplay loop but I’d still put something Intravenous over this game if we’re talking purely about stealth. It’s the closest we’ve got to the a top-down, 2D Splinter Cell game and it’s glorious.

[@sosaysjay]

I’ve had that on my list for a while but I haven’t played it yet

[@Amra..]

The gameplay on higher difficulties is like the most insane game of cat and mouse. Just constantly making split second decisions to survive. I don't even care about story. I'll skip the cutscenes and puzzles (more games should have this feature!). The only thing holding it back for me is that i can't skip the flashbacks

[@user-cz7jl7ip8n]

Gameplay is king

[@AiRenwick]

Hi man can you do a video of Assassins' creed Creed shadows and just call it Sekiro with crouching, that would be so funny.

[@thonato295]

? sekiro allows you to crouch wtf

[@AiRenwick]

@@thonato295 i stand with my opinion

[@adonisvillain]

9:50 yeah. I'm so exited about prone movement in Assassin's creed Shadows. With new animations tech and dynamic openworld or may become best stealth ever. 💪💪😎 ROCK ubisoft ROCK And it's from legendary Chaos Theory developer. And even non lethal takedowns in AC, that's something i missed. Hype is real

[@sosaysjay]

I don’t know if they’ll stick the landing, but prone and non-lethal are great things to add

[@sithvaultboy]

The game meachanics were so fun and good. However, the story was so brutal and draining that everytime I feel I want to go back and play it for fun, I remember what the story was, and think " no way, I dont want to be depressed today".

[@Indigo_1001]

Why no try the Encounters menu of the game, where you can replay all enemy encounters from a menu. You can even have it set where after completing one you are automatically placed in the next encounter of the game. You can essentially replay the whole home like this

[@sithvaultboy]

@@Indigo_1001 woah, is that new? I only played it at launch and don't remember that. I would try that.

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

The story was shit

[@BIGxBOSSxx1]

The hate for this game is 100% undeserved there’s a difference between hating a game because the story is bad and hating the game because the story didn’t go in the direction YOU wanted it to. The game is damn near perfect from the gameplay to the story idc what anyone says.

[@Lior__]

The gameplay its still unmatched till this day

[@theguyinthere]

The AI in this game reminded me of max payne 3. if you know you.

[@dayanvaldes1349]

My favorite game ever ❤

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

Cuck

[@joseortizreflects]

The Last of Us is a clear example of how a plot mistep can tarnish what otherwise is one of the best game franchises mechanically speaking. You don’t get games like this every day.

[@Ronuk1996]

So many modern games have terrible stealth. Last of us is sort like a current gen Manhunt both gamss have cat and mouse type gameplay that few other games really have were you offten going in and out of stealth.

[@ChrisQuinn-ti9zc]

Completely agree 💯💯💯

[@Brandon_Y.]

you say grounded is the definitive way to play but it seems like it's just a bunch of resets. and nerfing the guns makes your equipment actually weaker. with the damage upgrades removed

[@sosaysjay]

That’s largely because you aren’t meant to shoot much at all. Ammo is limited, akin to early Resident Evil, so firing your weapon is a last resort

[@Brandon_Y.]

@@sosaysjay if ammo is limited. No need to make bullets weaker. Though that’s a personal gripe I have with it. Seems logical a hunting rifle should headshot clickers and rattler helms in one shot. Otherwise it’s just a way worser hunting pistol.

[@sosaysjay]

@@Brandon_Y. Personally I never found it leading to that many unnecessary resets. Knowing a single clicker could erase hours of stockpiled ammo did more to help me learn the environments and evasion techniques than anything else

[@Indigo_1001]

@@Brandon_Y. That mean enemies are tougher Like Resident Evil the higher the difficulty the tougher the enemies are. Same with so many other games Blows my mind to see people complain about basic video games features in TLoU2

[@Brandon_Y.]

@@Indigo_1001 I see those same pros complain about those games they play everyday.

[@maticfrumenkotnik2694]

Haha poor Uncharted 3 getting dunked on without even being mentioned

[@sosaysjay]

It just didn’t change a ton from 2 from a technical standpoint. It did expand open areas with things like the ship graveyard, but it mostly retained the trajectory of the second game

[@maticfrumenkotnik2694]

Yeah I know and I agree with you, I just saw that moment as a funny opportunity to point out the fact that Uncharted 3 didn't really improve that much from 2, I'd go as far as to say that it even worsened certain aspects like the shooting, ai and story. I meant it more as a sort of self dunk on Uncharted 3 for it not pushing the envelope like the rest of the series and not you making fun of it. I guess I could have probably phrased it differently. Great video by the way, I am not the greatest fan of TLOU II's narrative, but I respect the devs a lot for the game's technical aspects and it's very polished gameplay, so it was nice to see you focusing the video on that.

[@sosaysjay]

@@maticfrumenkotnik2694 No worries, I didn't think you were being unfair I just decided to clarify

[@gewdvibes]

I still think the story is garbage and the first games story is way better but the gameplay was god tier in TLOU2. Literally the only reason I kept playing until the end was just because the gameplay was so fun lol

[@praisethesun2022]

Unfortunately it's best Stealth game ever, that's the problem.

[@kittylemeu1373]

Don't feel too glum, something awesome about the kinda system they've created is there's room for growth in the system because of how dynamic and fleshed out it is

[@omerkallad2286]

there are not a lot of stealth games in 2020's and while i like the stealth in this game its still feels very simplistic compared to other stealth games like deus ex

[@Amra..]

Immersive sim stealth is great and can be more mechanically rich but TLOU2 more than makes up for it. For one thing, the enemy AI is far above any other stealth game (if you play on a higher difficulty). It's surprising not many people talk about it

[@Indigo_1001]

Try it on grounded; I promise it won’t feel “simplistic” Trust me in Medium the game does feel like any “generic stealth game gameplay”. But ok grounded which the game says “is the way it’s meant to be played” does not

[@civilwarfare101]

I might play this game again, I remember it being overly long and drawn out especially towards the end as for the ending itself and while I sort of get what ND was getting at, it made a bit more sense than AC2 tried to with Ezio and Rodrigo, it still felt ultimately unsatisfying since you spent over 20 hours with a game where you don't even defeat the bad guy. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I do get what the game was going for thematically, some of it is interesting, others not so much However the gameplay does seem like an improvement over the first, I'm not sure if I would ever consider any TLOU to be a stealth game since you get caught and have so many scripted cover blows, it's probably more of a slow paced tactical shooter. At the same time, what you said does sound prettty interesting. I might try to play the game again, knowing how it ends. I'm not sure if I can handle playing on the hardest difficulty and get sent back long periods of time, I hate checkpoint stravation. But I'll look into it.

[@Indigo_1001]

My dude if you still have your save file saved and all I beg you to try out the Encounter menu option It’s a list of all the combat encounter. You can even set up where after finishing an encounter you’d be load into the following one. What I really recommend is play it on “grounded” (but maybe set the resources on hard so you have more ammo and such). It’s SUCH a great gameplay experience. Ignore the story if you didn’t like it.

[@civilwarfare101]

@@Indigo_1001 I do want to reexperience the story again since it's been 4 years since I played. I do like how Sony games have very customizable difficulty, more games should try this or at the very least I prefer this over set difficulty modes and you can't change once you select it.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@civilwarfare101 If you will replay the story then may I suggest this preset difficulty for you to consider. This, imo, makes for a very challenging games but not too challenging where it breaks immersion. Set all the difficulty to grounded EXCEPT Resources. Set that to Medium or Hard at your preference. Now you actually have tools, ammo and upgrades at your disposal. It’s a little immersion breaking that on Grounded you clear a room full of enemies only for them to collectively drop 4 bullets. Another is Ally, the easiest it is the more they help the harder it is the less they help. I actually recommend setting this based on the skills of your companion. So the more combat experience they have put that in easy, the less experience put it on hard. If you actually like seeing your ally help out and not stand there doing nothing then out that bad boy all the way to Easy. These are just recommendations based on multiple playthroughs

[@civilwarfare101]

@@Indigo_1001 I'll come back and read this comment if I play the game again, thanks.

[@user-tu9sm6ub1x]

ghost of tsushima is better in my opinion.

[@PeachesandCream225]

TLOU2 is the best game ever made by a longshot

[@ghostwhencodghosts9114]

Cuck

[@incredax]

While the gameplay was great and the narrative not so much and people should really talk about the actual gameplay more, I do wish there were actual non-lethal options. That could lean in to the plot in a more Dishonored style way, where if Ellie plays more non-lehtaly, she'll spare Abby and if she doesn't, she'll kill her at the end.

[@josephjoestar9616]

I don't think TLOU1's stealth is good at all, I found it very boring against humans due to the lack of approaches and level design. Fighting the infected is interesting though. Good action game, but "okay" stealth game. TLOU2 is much, much better in every aspect of gameplay in my opinion.

[@bassplayer2011ify]

I haven't played TLOS 2 but I recently played the PC remaster of the first game. And while the stealth elements are fun. The AI is so apocalyptically bad that it takes any since of stress out of the encounters. When you can crouch walk right up to someone to kill them while they are looking directly at you and the most you out of them is “what was that” as I'm pressing the kill button. Yeah that isn't good design. And apparently the PC version has improved AI. If that's the case I don't even what to think about how bad it was in the original.

[@Indigo_1001]

Let me ask, what difficulty did you play. And was this the PS4 remastered or the PS5 remake? The AI has its own difficulty that changes drastically depending on what you set. You can set everything on medium and just have the AI be very hard In medium then are quite blind. On grounded they are no joke. And on TLoU2 they are in a WHOLE other level of difficulty compared to 1

[@bassplayer2011ify]

@@Indigo_1001 Its the PS5 remake as it has the gore system and a few other features pulled from TLOU 2. And I've done two runs the first with everything on normal (AI, puzzles, the lot) and a classic NG+ (so my upgrades carried but I didn't start with everything) again everything on normal. And yes I'm aware Grounded insanely hard but I don't like banging my head against the wall. A game like this should have a dynamic AI system. You know like RE4 did back in 2004. But it doesn't and as a result, choking out a Firefly in SLC is no harder than choking out a runner in Boston. As for TLOU 2, I have no plans on playing it for a few reasons. One it looks like it won't be coming to PC anytime soon. And two I despise the gameplay loop. That is the main reason I wrote off TLOU in the first place. I grew up with Uncharted and was quite bored with the find things, kill everything, cutscene loop by the time TLOU came out. And I still hate that loop to this day. I played TLOS out of a morbid sense of curiosity and my suspicions were confirmed. Great characters and a decent story let down by a boring repetitive gameplay loop that Naughty Dog has been using since 2007. Plus I fucking hate revenge plots more so the tired gameplay loops. So that's strike three for TLOS 2. And short of it being for free on Steam. There is nothing that can convince me to play a game that I will hate on a narrative and mechanical level.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@bassplayer2011ify About TLoU1 difficulty you can set the AI at “grounded” but everything else on “normal”. So the AI has some actual self awareness but you won’t die in one-two shots. If you even feel like it why not try it out and see how it works in the encounter Menu. Like it’s a bit silly to criticize the games AI when you have the AI difficulty be pretty low. I feel you are missing out on the gameplay of TLoU2 even if I understand you don’t like how they present the story-gameplay. Though I never understand what TLoU does so different to other games like Alan Wake 2 or Plague Tale, but maybe you don’t like those games ether

[@bassplayer2011ify]

@@Indigo_1001 I've never played Alan Wake or Plagues Tale. And I really do mean it was a morbid sense of curiosity that led me to play TLOU. Up until quiet recently I had pretty much given up gaming outside of playing a few childhood favorites and a relatively short list of games that people whom I trust told me without hesitation were worth my time and had stood the test of time. TLOU was on that list. It was also part of a Steam sale and the price was good enough for me to say fuck it. I went in knowing the entire TLOU storyline. But not knowing the finer details. I had never seen a single cutscene nor watched anyone play it. All I knew were the names of the main characters that is started in Boston and ended in SLC why they were going, and how it ended. Everything else was a question mark. So with a little faith but still keeping my expectations low I started playing. And truth be told I wasn't all that impressed. Loved the interactions between Joel and Ellie but beyond that for me it was a resounding meh. The gameplay was boring but serviceable. And the crafting system didn't make we want to kill myself. But inevitably as I'm riding into Eastern Colorado I'm asking myself (as I do with every Naughty Dog game post Uncharted) “How much longer?” Seeing I only had one more between me and the ending I kept playing. And then Joel gets injured. Not surprised but intrigued I’m thinking “last chance” as the game cuts to the Winter title card. And, do I even need to say it? The entire winter section from stalking the buck to the final fight with David makes this game for me. Its by no means my favorite game. But its earned its place as one of the greats. And I will return to every once in a while. I can't compare it to Alan Wale or Plagues Tale. But TLOU has in the grand scheme of things one thing that makes it playable for me. A thing that I know TLOU 2 doesn't have. Because unlike TLOU 1, TLOU 2 has been well and truly spoiled for me. So I will gain nothing from playing it other then 22 plus hours of boardem and frustration. P.S. I’ll go in and turn the AI up on my next play through.

[@Indigo_1001]

@@bassplayer2011ify Holdup holdup holdup… You like the Winter section? As in the gameplay side of it? I was surprised to read that since it seems you didn’t enjoy the rest of the game. I really liked that chapter too. Honestly I feel that part is better cause even on medium they crank up the difficulty due to you being way weaker. That’s kind a what in mean with how different the games feels on Grounded. On the games biggest difficulty the enemy’s ARE a huge threat and you are almost at their mercy. You NEED to play stealthy just to survive. And as a huge stealth game player I love when stealth games lean hard on that angle. On top of being cool to see AI enemies having some actual self awareness in that setting as well. If you do return this game I do recommend trying that difficulty out on the Combat Encounter Menu. See what difficulty setting you prefer. You can adjust it as your preference. I do prefer to set it up on all grounded except Ally’s and Resources, those I set to ether Medium or Hard, so you actually have options in combat.

[@rasmus6236]

It didnt barly make even... omg

[@troytheboy1985]

When you was talking about games that have the same bases mgs 5 is just that it's fast just to be fast got stop gimmicks so youtubers can make a dumb video and move on but it's stealth is just bad 4 is better then 5 in everyway game playwise