Sounds of Silence Roll4It #22 - MADISON - Vampire the Masquerade 5th Edition

Sounds of Silence with Roll4It - a Vampire the Masquerade 5th Edition tabletop RPG show!
Help us keep rolling at: / roll4it
Dungeon Master :
/ mathasgames
Cast:
/ little_red_dot
/ enterelysium
/ thebubbernaut
/ missmagitek
Watch Roll4it live at: / roll4it
Roll4It Reddit: / roll4it
Roll4It Wiki: roll4it.wikia....
Roll4It Twitter: / roll4it
Roll4It Facebook: / roll4it
#VTM #VampireTheMasquerade #TTRPG

[@Chalvrek]

Starts 0:45 Game Starts 4:51 Break ends 2:05:25

[@adamdavenport8009]

MissMagitek: I'll find the cleanest of the rooms... MathasGames: *choked chuckling* 🤣

[@rossnorris2351]

Omg...the mage turning a vampire into a lawn chair is a running joke among my group. That is awesome.

[@michaels6119]

That is a running joke in the WoD community since 1st ed Mage.

[@Bzero444]

This has rapidly become my favorite show (tv or internet). My sincere thanks to the storyteller and players for producing such a wonderful series. A GM smart enough to let the players run in the spotlight and players vibrant and confident enough to throw themselves into characters that are incredibly addictive to watch. You guys and gals are simply amazing.

[@LittleRedDot]

The support means so much. Thanks for dedicating to the story with us.

[@letsgetreal6402]

2:59:28 I just cant do it anymore lol Mister Mathas... those big rugs that cover a whole floor and are attached, are called carpets. =D

[@Ren-1979]

Again Zach makes good use of his magic bag by pulling out carrots and a can of sardines that every lick should have on him in case he has to bribe a cat or a rabbit. ^^ When I hear him do these things I always tell myself that it's the Malk blood in him and he is just imagining things. ;-)

[@DarlockAhe]

Plot twist: Ava is Malkavian, who thinks she is a Toreador.

[@Pyrotic_Napalm]

That would be a big twist, doubt it, but it would be pretty epic.

[@aexious]

#DaughterOfCacophony

[@MarkATorres1989]

Wouldn't that mean... Cyana is actually a Malk and not a Toreador?

[@DarlockAhe]

Or it's a conspiracy with Malek (or however you spell that name). It's actually just something I've came up on a spot, when Zach asked "Are you sure you are not Malkavian?"

[@Pyrotic_Napalm]

@@MarkATorres1989 remember there was a malkavian who thought he was Caine.

[@ThejollyFrenchman]

I love that Layla, Just around the corner and Sounds of Silence all share the same expanded universe now. Eat your heart out, Infinity War.

[@Methren1]

Whait.. did I miss the thing with Layla? When was the crossover with that show?

[@ThejollyFrenchman]

Methren1 Bub's character in Just Around the Corner was an author whose life was saved by Layla before she moved to England. He then based a series of books on her and her adventures. It was meant as a reference and offhand joke, but it still technically counts. How the continuity works, considering that LTVS vampires and WoD vampires are completely different, is a bit of a mystery, but who cares? Bring on the crossovers!

[@matteodelgallo1983]

@@ThejollyFrenchman well, LVTS is the story that's in Bub's character's books, the real Layla is probably a grizzled and badass vampire hunter

[@ChilluminatiPod]

@@matteodelgallo1983 This is the canon for the world I'm running yep. Layla if she actually exists and Bubs character wasn't just saved by some random person, is likely a Hunter or a member of the 2nd Inquisition. Way meaner and a whole lot nastier in general, and her personality would likely not match the books he wrote. The books he wrote are what the Layla show is "based on" here on R4I. He just turned his short experience into a pop modern fantasy drama for young adults and bam, that's how they connect here.

[@zachbitner9391]

Damn lol

[@larsdahl5528]

49:00 Reminds me of a situation in the gaming club: In a game someone had jokingly said that a certain event would only occur if rolling 4 ones on 4 dice. Then rolled and got 4 ones! After that another of the players did run around the club yelling "Four ones on four dice! - How likely is that?". And we recognised the veteran players knowing their dice rolling expertise by their answer: "It is fifty - fifty, either he does roll it or he do not roll it. - Two choices, so: Fifty - fifty!".

[@Revan_7even]

2:10:24 Mage sends vampires to a house full of crosses: never trust a mage!

[@manticore6963]

I really don't know what my favourite part of the Episode was: - Everyone but Miss Magitek realising, what Cabin they're in - Miss Magitek realising way too late what Cabin they're in - Litte Red Dot's reaction, when the Cats called Ida "Mom" (adorable) - Everyone (except Litte Red Dot) defending their previous Characters from the "Just around the Corner"-Campaign to the Blood while making fun off the other Characters - I think halfway through everyone realising, that Ava misidentified Matthew as a Fae but they had to keep going with that, because no Character made In-Game the Connection - Everyone but Zach constantly spilling all the beans in front of the Mage and in front of Dakota - Suddenly everyone wanting to play Mind-Wipe Hot Potatoe - EE reminding Miss Magitek that Ava can't be mad at Zach for trying to Mind Wipe her last Episode, because he Mind Wiped that from her - wich I thought was hilarious And probably some other Scenes I aready forgot but were great too. Also I should watch the "Just around the Corner"-Campaing completely, never finished it and now I regret it.

[@aurinsaint9058]

It was a snickeringly good fun short campaign. =-)

[@ThejollyFrenchman]

You should, the ending is great, and kinda terrifying. The whole series had a creepy vibe, but the ending delves into straight existential horror and it's fantastic, it's the series that got me to watch this channel.

[@LittleRedDot]

Thank you so much for the kind words. Always warms my heart to know everyone is enjoying it.

[@Mr._Matt]

Maaan am I glad I watched Just Around the Corner. For anyone who hasn't, I highly recommend watching it before watching this episode if you dig Mathas' GM-ing. It's amazing stuff and this episode would have some tremendous spoilers that would lessen the experience of watching Just Around the Corner later, imo.

[@sophiskiai9380]

With all the info he was getting, that mage is gonna need a fresh notebook soon! Ollie's suggestion of the mage taking Rowan seemed to come completely out of the blue, did anyone ask if the mage would /want/ some random kid tagging along with him?

[@zesky6654]

Maybe Rowan awakened?

[@Drewcatmorris]

I have dug and found enough to put this on my monthly Patreon. Just such a delicious show!

[@rossnorris2351]

Zach Heloise Rabbit King.

[@aexious]

Ghouled Bunnies!

[@WolfOfLegend]

I feel so bad for Zach, he is trying so hard to cover everyone else's fuck ups and bad choices. He's not perfect, but at least he covers his tracks REALLY well, didn't spill a single thing to the mage, actually found them some good info, and has been the one to fix a lot of the groups fuck ups. Hell he had to be tortured for 2 weeks straight, for something that the rest of the group did when he stayed home and advised against what would cause it. And yet the group still don't trust Zach's judgement, and the fact he "makes all the decisions" as Dekota put it. Plus the whole Dakota and Ollie spilling literally everything to the mage then Dakota saying "he probably knows too much" actually made me facepalm

[@gothknight6]

I cannot stand either Zach or EE. One behaves like the leader with more information than he should have and the other constantly questions the storyteller and meta games. I’d rather he be replaced by Saito.

[@ace-kz9id]

@@gothknight6 2 years late but i like EE since he makes learning the actual real lore of the vampire the masquerade interesting. and its better to question the story teller than just to let something go way off the rales because no one else knows the rules of the game as well as the storyteller. this is a problem i had with a dnd game / show i watched years ago where the DM was the only person who knew the rules. so the rules went out of window i actually dont like saito in game mostly because he feels like a forced PC to me (up to this point) and seems very out of place with the other PCs/

[@gothknight6]

@@ace-kz9id Jesus. 2 year already? Thats crazy.

[@thedapperlad7148]

You know, vampires are in this really weird position when facing off against Fae, in a slugging match they lose hard, but if a vampire sinks its teeth in, giving the Kiss to a being so completely slaved to its sensations would end the fight right there.

[@rossnorris2351]

And the fight ending would be good for the Vampire in the biting situation. The Bloodsucker would be seeing many many pretty hallucinations.

[@MarkATorres1989]

@@rossnorris2351 Tastes like purple!

[@rossnorris2351]

@Mark Torres lol

[@HenriqueErzinger]

Almost every rulebook list really bad effects to drinking fae blood, and no real advantage apart from higher blood potency, which is just more points for volume).

[@thedapperlad7148]

@@HenriqueErzinger Yeah, but it would definitely kill em, if they could keep drinking till its dry!

[@RedReaver989]

This is awesome!!!! Link to "Just around the corner"

[@wadegreenjr.2014]

Loving Sounds of Silence. You guys just started the 2nd season, how am I supposed to catch up when I have to check out the other story now? Just Around the Corner? I think that's what it is called? It's not enough hours in the day. But definitely keep up the good work. Oh...and London Falling just popped up in my feed!!!! I think I'll be behind for life now.

[@SpaceCakeism]

"Yer a wizard?" (, Harry!)

[@zachbitner9391]

No hagred I'm just harry

[@profmembrane8501]

5 minutes after going to the house, I honestly picture Dakota leaving with two armfuls of cat ghouls. Lol new weapon. Army of cats.

[@Neutral_Tired]

she can only have one famulus at a time

[@harvestblades]

So since Matthas said Madison is North of Chi town I am guessing it is Madison WI so just West of Milwaukee. The drive is only 2.5 hours doing 60mph & it is only 150 miles. Not sure why they went the train route or made it sound like it was some great overland adventure.

[@QuasarKnightGaming]

Kindred can’t rent cars right now (2nd inquisition is in too good a place and digging too hard, and they’ve kicked up a lot of heat) and they trashed the only car they had. No trains running directly to or from Madison from Chicago that run late at night during vampire hours. They also can’t legally purchase tickets or get aboard them without raising Inquisition suspicions. While it may not have been as big a deal as they made it sound, they DO have to make clandestine maneuvers and play it the safest way they can and they have to do it in a way that keeps them from being tracked. Thus, train jumping and hiding among cargo. Getting off before cameras at stations can see them. It’s a scary place for a vampire when the 2nd comes a knockin.

[@anvos658]

@@QuasarKnightGaming If only one of them was a photographer and they could easily cover up the trip as her mask doing a photo shoot about nightlife in small towns. Could have also been interesting way to have Zach and the others see her drop in humanity where at least to Zach something would seem off about her newest artistic endeavor. Then she just finds a college student who looks like her to do a day time shoot and Zach erases the student's memory of having done the shoot, or Ava keeps them on as a ghoul to keep doing the scam. This would also fall easily under Zach's mask of a PI, where it literally wouldn't be a lie that a desperate father hired him to find his son.

[@vexthias1710]

During the other campaign this references it's Madison Indiana

[@Crushanator1]

​@@vexthias1710but Indiana is not north of Chicago

[@vexthias1710]

@@Crushanator1 I know it's what has me confused about it as well

[@TheDFIANT]

Much better. The Metagaming from EnterElysium was reduced a lot. He even corrected other players who tried to know about Zach and the animals. I approve of this. Good show. Keep it up.

[@HenriqueErzinger]

Not really, he metagamed a lot this episode.

[@genopsych]

I can see him making an effort, but he has such a difficult time allowing others co-create with him. Can’t seem to help himself from trying to co-story-tell the game.

[@Crushanator1]

The whole mind wipe conversation functionally starts bc he can't stop dropping the meta game knowledge of hearing a private conversation between Prince Bella and Cammy, and the two sentences they talked about Rowan

[@carlosvassell1345]

Butcher's Vampire Book Club...I want this

[@timkai]

~4:14:10 "There has to be a way to do this that won't result in the maximum amount of carnage!!" ... **snrk** Good luck with that, Zach!

[@Zerakis]

I imagine that when Rowan grows up the ladies will find him quite fetching.

[@manticore6963]

*badumm tsss*

[@MarkATorres1989]

Awww daaaaaam!

[@HenriqueErzinger]

Maybe it's some homebrew stuff they are using, but in canon there's not much to gain in drinking fae blood. It wouldn't make a vampire more powerful, and in all rulebooks that mention it there are some gruesome side-effects, from hallucinations to bleeding out from all holes to permanent madness, with the only advantage being higher potency, so just more points per volume, and - for some - being tastier.

[@Slyxen3]

2:11:12 you don’t use hunger dice for checks, willpower, or humanity rolls.

[@Vlodril]

Poor Zach. The coterie are doing their best to screw up his (un)life as much as possible.

[@HenriqueErzinger]

Most of it is he going around trying to manipulate the others. High level Dominate is fucked up in his hands.

[@harvestblades]

I love it when Werewolf the Apocalypse crosses over with my Vampire!

[@xdajlo82]

When did Zack become the villain of the group. Ugh. He's so santamonious

[@Grumskiz]

Please consider muting your mics when you're not in the scene. I found the sound of EE eating during Mathas' intro part to be particularly distracting. Anyway, I just relistened to most of Just Around The Corner and I'm hyped to find out about the connections.

[@EnterElysium]

I thought I had it muted :cry:

[@TheStupidLama]

I believe this has been said many times, but compliments to the entire cast including Saito and Cammy. So deep in their role, not shying away from drama and obviously compliments to #MathasGames, from whom I'm not ashamed to say I stole some ideas for my own compaign! :D (I run a 20th Anniversary Vampire Group for 1.5 years now.. sadly we can't get behind the V5 System. 50% is amazing but we miss the other 50% too much. We especially prefer traditional botching, we don't agree with the combat System and nobody got behind the whole melting disciplines together. "What do you mean Tremere can now see Ghost, Why do I play a Giovanni then?! They got their Blood Magic, I want my Ghosts, they can have their Magic... WHAT DO YOU MEAN TOREADOR CAN TECHNICALLY SEE GHOSTS TOO??" ya they didn't like that and honestly I see their point. ^^)

[@ejc2064]

not that I disagree play V20 too, more leeway in tone. But level two auspex can sense/see ghosts and tremere and tor has auspexs.

[@irontemplar6222]

V20 as well. I kind of hate most of the V5 game. Ghouls are particularly so weak in the edition that making them is almost pointless. Aside from having a slightly improved abilites here and there. They are basically just really loyal human followers now which you can get without ghouling. Blood pools are gone which I felt was just a much better system then the current hunger system which can really screw you over. "I would like to use X power to do Y innoculas thing, and Beastial failure. Now I am eating my best friend" (as an ST I just started ignoring the beastial system altogether.) The discipline merging I also thought was really dumb. As for the combat system it honestly almost feels like it dosnt even exsit. Basically I just feel like V20 is just better in almost every way. I might take a thing or two as a house rule from V5 but I will be ignoring most of it.

[@yourguyforham4216]

Just saying spirit thaumaturgy was a thing before v5

[@Neutral_Tired]

02:36:48 isn't there a rule about rolling less dice than you have hunger?

[@HenriqueErzinger]

Yes, all of the die are hunger die. The problem there was the software, not the rules.

[@Neutral_Tired]

Henrique Erzinger I know, I thought I remembered there being a penalty fit having more hunger than dice, like auto bestial fail/messy crit or something

[@_Jack-]

KZbin processing = best processing

[@ryangray8392]

Funny that they are pissed that Zach makes the decisions yet those two are the ones that always fuck up and the cause of their current problems. The reason he makes the decisions is because they go and fuck up everything after being warned about it.

[@shawngarza6033]

great show as aways.

[@user-jv7gr1jb3r]

_Rowan, sweetheart..._ _You've rifted._

[@Itukaaj]

zach should mute his mic when he eats

[@user-jv7gr1jb3r]

It's considered good luck. They found Rowan! Sorta.

[@Itukaaj]

@@user-jv7gr1jb3r haha

[@DiceFTW273]

ASMR: Vampire Edition

[@Ghirahim3]

One question: I haven't seen the clan weaknesses come up much. Ollie has been hiding and suffering for it but you'd think he'd have some form of negatives with his interactions with mortals. Zach is a Caitiff and has been dealing with the social issues so he's fine but neither Dakota or Ava's weakness has come up. Is there somethings (rules or homebrew/edits) I'm missing? Either way it's still an awesome show, love you guys.

[@forestdoor8897]

I don't think so. He is always wearing a mask when he has any type of interaction with people other than that he has a penalty to all his social rolls. Other than that if you are more familiar with previous editions of the game the Nosferatu curse is not as bad as it used to be mostly because appearance is no longer a stat

[@Ghirahim3]

@@forestdoor8897 Yeah, I found WOD through VTR in which even is a nos looks normal they're just alien and off and so it doesn't matter what there wearing, they are a walking masquerade breach. Even then it feels like he gets off a bit light in comparison to how I see nos, because no-one other than the hotel has an issue with the black skull mask. Then again I imagine playing up any clan to the fullest of the negatives would be pretty dull and force him to be a lone wolf.

[@ejc2064]

@@Ghirahim3 well in defense he has really only interacted with homeless degenerates who probably wouldn't bat an eye at seeing another vagrant who may have been burned or horribly scared on the street. Or with mortals that are living in another kindred's haven who can be controlled. Otherwise head down hood up in the shadows. The orphanage I could see but I feel that was for sake of the story which to me comes first as long as the player makes a attempt to hide himself while interacting. Even if its a stretch. Also they first time vampire players I mean technically zach and Ava should of been killed like second episode. I think Mathas is giving them a little rope to learn the game. Plus V5.

[@TheStupidLama]

oh I'm really curious if and when Dekota frenzies (which I believe she never has.. no she hasn't. beastial failures, yes, but not frenzied. Only Ava has..and Zach had a beastial fail against Dekota's cat :D) and Dekota is gonna aquire an animalistic feature, like an actual tail or cat ears! :D 20th anniversary rules say when she frenzies she gets an animalistic feature that goes away after a month or so, but should she frenzy again in that time it becomes permanent.

[@forestdoor8897]

@@TheStupidLama in V5 it doesn't become permanent.

[@joshuacreel3000]

can someone comment to me which other Madison show they're talking about so i can go watch it?

[@ChilluminatiPod]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5mwk2Btmttrlck

[@joshuacreel3000]

@@ChilluminatiPod found it myself actually (this series is probably my favorite thing going on in entertainment right now, so i went to the wiki and found shows Chelsea had been in and named Ida :P)! thank you so much though! thank you so much for this series in general as well!

[@SpaceCakeism]

"only if I get to be the middle spoon!" LUL

[@junemetcalfe8019]

Can someone give me a short hand version of just around the corner? I've not seen the series, just wondering whats the deal with the cabin is?

[@Smaakakor]

How does frenzy work vs a blood bond? Haven't played vtm since 2ed i think so it's been awahile

[@nightsyko]

@1:37:09 calling the true faye

[@matthewstorm4135]

Watch out, that lawn chair really sucks 😂

[@liminal_entity1331]

So, I'm going to go out on limb and say that it is Changelings behind the goings-on in Madison. I haven't really studied anything in the World of Darkness aside from Vampire, but I know that Changelings exist in it and this definitely seems like their m.o. Haven't watched the rest of this series yet, but just based on this epsiode, I'm guessing Changelings.

[@HenriqueErzinger]

it's not a guess, they straight up say it. Changelings are Fae.

[@gmofkings]

It is

[@antirnator8194]

Rabbits don't eat carrots :D

[@quenten5770]

What the series the relat to in this ep

[@1NvMe]

Yo my name is darrian! Im an author in this episode!

[@pretentiousname01]

Ee eating and not muting with the cling clangs is triggering me in the worst way. And no one sending him a discreet message about it

[@irontemplar6222]

Get that kid as far away from the Camrilla as possible. Honestly a mage is the best place for him most vamps wont even try if they touched it.

[@kylecrawford2000]

I just rewatched the first episode of r4it vtm and if you listen mark Co owns his bar with his brother if I was them I would have used his brother as leverage against him

[@kylecrawford2000]

Mabe his brother is lock =o

[@TheOleGreyGamer]

Of course he gets out a tin of sardines because you always carry a tin of sardines with you. FFS! At least try to not be the equivalent of Asda, EE.

[@sierra_streams1915]

EE always eating

[@MarkATorres1989]

*sighs* Seeing this 'smart' and 'sucking to the camarilla' Dakota is irritating me so much. I don't know which annoyed me more now... impulsive or sucking up? Now I don't know if she is truly genuine about saving Rowan anymore and just wants to give the boy up to Bella for a treat. Same for Ava... she wonders why Zach is avoiding her. Did they ever talked about the two weeks of torture he went through while she just mopped in the haven with Camille? Again she also betrayed Zach first and still talks about his schemes and such? Oh please... pot. kettle. black. Oh WAIT! They're TWINS!!!! OF COURSE!!!!! Zach... well you dug your grave. Though it seems you're the most humane now of the group... something I am floored about ever since your first impression on the first episode. Yeah Zach! I still remember you made a baby an orphan! Master Wiper indeed... especially Camille's end of things. Ollie... any single father would do what he would do, if they love their child enough to put all on the line... but damn dude, why are you gambling on this unknown mage? There are mages that do human experiments... ah wait... he doesn't know that yet. Ahhhhhhhhhh... you leeches make things so much complicated! Though it does intrigue me that Mark (Not me, I would certainly have made an much more better plan than this; plus I'm not a leech) would go so far to trade a boy for a bit of fae blood... poor deluded fool.

[@HenriqueErzinger]

I thought the ST was pretty clear about how Zach know shit all about mages, or anything apart from vampires really, this very episode. I never really liked him as a character, and that has nothing to do with the player, but EE metagames a lot sometimes, and it throws me off a bit. The whole "I pull out of my pocket whatever random item I want/need to have right now" stick as well...

[@genopsych]

Keeps him “right” and relevant at all times. Problem is that EE seems to control the show too, so players defer to him. Talks over the ST, disrupts conversations his character is not present for with intrusive meta-comments, add structural details as breadcrumbs for later “solution finding” by his character, and seldom allows other players contributions to stand without his texturizing in some way. Would love to see an episode without EE and see how the other players solve problems without his interference.

[@ronelbooyzen4854]

Armanda😍😘

[@whoknows8264]

LOL so much for no names

[@KoiaKiss]

I literally had no idea what they were referring to half the time after the break. probably some other series I didn't watch yet. Made this ep annoying to watch.

[@michaels6119]

It's called Just Around the Corner. A prequel to this series

[@anvos658]

Are we sure your cats aren't actually kindred that have mesmerized you into do streams to get them money? . Madison wouldn't be that far away if you didn't paranoia your kindred out of using vehicles, seriously a 3-4 hour drive isn't that much of the night. That the harpy and elites have vehicles should have been a hint that there is a way to get away with car ownership without alerting the SI. . Well technically you can just use youtube, or send a ghoul out with a recording device if you want to see areas during the day. Also you can see things during the daylight from a distance where you are is perfectly out of the sun and you will yourself to stay up. . This adventure also why Ventrue are superior to most others as its a lot easier to hide journeys and expenditures while traveling in style/comfort when you can buy/rent things with a company card and don't have to expose your mask as the one who did it and just mesmerize clerks into putting the name of a random employee. Sadly for this coterie they keep hindering Ava kindred social climbing, who is the only one reasonably close to being able to expand her photography into an art house to get one of those. . Fairly sure you don't immediately ash if exposed to sun during the day, you'd just wake up in a terror frenzy, and then good luck having dumb dumb figure out how to get your body to shade in your brief window before your full agg and then ash. . I very much prefer the interpretation of that ability that your literally speaking the animal's "language" so I'm just seeing Zach making rabbit noises. . To be fair a kindred acting spooked/beastial right after something supernatural happened to them while they slept is fitting. . Was wondering how long it would take Ava to Sense the Unseen after her strange day time dream. . Well somebody obviously isn't a technomancer with such a sad vehicle. . Someone is metaing kind of hard to assume the strength of this mage. At the short confined distance 1-2 get incapacitated or destroyed before the mage is going oh shit I needed that organ, not to mention being on the outskirts of a town consensus would likely nerf attempting to summon sunlight to artificial light and flames congratulations your the threat the beast will target. . Kind of feel like in this coterie's shoes after finding the basement it would be a whelp, the old lady and cats are going to be homeless as were torching this potential masquerade breach when we leave. . You know I just thought of something, when Dakota gets her cat back would it be able to rat out Zach on doing "weird things" to the other coterie members, when he next tries to dominate coterie members. . Olley, Torries read they just read Vouge and other fashion or art related things. . LoL you doodled in an old lady's photo album to find out the photo album in her house with old photos of a married couple and an old lady in the back was her photo album. . Zach sure carries a lot of food for a kindred and not even non-perishables. . The Camarilla knows your a caitiff, I'm not sure what your hiding you know new disciplines accomplishes, learning out of clan disciplines isn't caitiff unique. . Oh Zach assuming the SI aren't unilaterally racist towards all things supernatural that isn't true faith. . Why the heck is Olley assuming the mage is a long term foster care? Zach's second suggestion of work the system to either earn a boon with Bella or somebody Bella owes a boon to, to get back your son is the you don't endanger your son, coterie, and yourself right idea. . While Ava mightn't remember his failed mental assault, Zach has clearly been acting extremely sus around her and Dakota since he got back. Wouldn't take much to reasonably suspect Mr. I solve problems with dominate hasn't tried, when coupled with that. . Seems rather weird as well neither side realized there is likely already one or more Camarilla agents in Madison, since A. this is a retrieval mission so somebody has to be there to retrieve and B. if its part of Bella's domain there has to be somebody reporting on the area. Thus they might already be watched from a distance to ensure their not messing up again.

[@ILP2016]

i find Ava's character annoying/frusterating

[@scottyalto]

It's gone so META I barely understand what's going on. Time dimensions? Faries? Mages? Why do all vampire universes always go off the rails? Can't we just be happy with vampires people?

[@cyanblue9775]

It’s the World of Darkness. If you don’t like larger overlapping universes maybe the system just isn’t for you?

[@ndalby187]

Okay, the fucks with the filler episode? Main plot and character development. It's a cool story, but it's got nothing to do with the story that's been told for 22 episodes.

[@anvos658]

Get this is 3 years old, but don't get why you said this was a filler episode. The quest to find Olley's son is the closest this coterie got to agreeing on a unified goal and has over all taken so much game time its possibly a primary quest for them, or at least a plot relevant secondary, and the episode led to the biggest lead they ever had. Its part of the arc that is also a cross over, but not a filler episode.