Sourdough Shokupan with 30% Whole Wheat | The Science and Recipe

[@stefanniemoh]

Hi Seraphine, first of all, never stop making these long intensive science videos on bread making. It’s been so helpful and I really appreciate you taking the time to go through all the research papers some of us can’t! I really need advice as I’m a small bakery owner and have a lot of frozen old bread dough. If you could make a video on how to include aged dough in ratios that wouldn’t affect the rising, and any advice regarding the use of old bread dough. Thank you!

[@stefanniemoh]

If you have a social media page or an email I can reach out on so I further explain to you the issue my bakery is seeing, I would be so glad! 😢 Thank you!

[@barrychambers4047]

Thank you for doing a whole wheat version, and some of the science os why it's so good for us! Seraphene you are a great teacher, thank you!

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad to hear you enjoyed the video, thanks for your kind comment :)

[@zoltangacsi4614]

I get more and more speechless! Utmost respect to your knowledge gained from relevant research papers, and also to the perfect realization. It would also be very interesting if, some day, you could come up with a simple bread-machine process too (for a tasty basic loaf)!

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your kind words! About a bread machine recipe, we'll have to wait and see since I do, at least for now, prefer hands-on baking :)

[@zoltangacsi4614]

@@NovitaListyani Baking in bread machine is challenging: add ingredients, start the machine and done! The big question is if you get tasty and quality bread... (impossible?)

[@fekwol9726]

God bless you, I like your presentation.

[@RECIPESwithMARYA]

Simple and delicious recipe👌👌👌

[@fredbrown7954]

Nice explanation and instructions. I'll have to keep learning. Yum 👍

[@NovitaListyani]

Thank you for your comment, glad you enjoyed the video!

[@geraldfriesen5600]

Looks great! I need to get a pullman pan but would love to try this with 100% fresh-milled whole wheat :)

[@DianeH2038]

excellent video! I have some very happy sourdough starter and will try this one next. I really appreciate all the scientific details and explanations as well as the practical application.

[@NovitaListyani]

Indeed, if your sourdough is in good condition, then this recipe is definitely a great place to use it. Happy baking!

[@Maison_Mochi]

Oh finally!!!!! Been waiting for this! Yeheeeey👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼Will try this!!! Thanks so much🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@ra-dg5rf]

Great weekly bread recipe thank you !

[@NovitaListyani]

Thanks for the comment!

[@rossita6634]

You rock, girl. I never knew that the science & chemistry of food are so interesting. ❤❤❤

[@gogeta8475]

Hi again! I have a question. Do you know at what baker's percent sugar is salt-stressing the yeast recommended? Also maybe a tip, I noticed that ChefSteps uses specifically glutinous rice flour in their shokupan recipe, apparently to boost the mochi-like texture even more. I'm not sure what kind of rice flour you're using, but that might be worth looking into. Keep up the amazing work!

[@NovitaListyani]

Sugar, like salt, exerts osmotic stress on the yeast, and it normally starts getting problematic when we add more than 10%(baker's percentage). As for the rice flour, we use regular white rice, not glutinous rice flour, this is based on several patents and research papers. We have experimented a little with glutinous rice flour, but it's still in the works. Thanks for the comment!

[@rubychung5126]

Hi, thank you for all the information you’re sharing in your videos and have subscribed. I am making this recipe at the moment using my freshly milled whole wheat grains. Based on the liquid quantity for the tangzhong, I mixed the rice flour and whole grain wheat flour and it’s soupy. Am I missing something? I looked at the other shokupan video, the liquid is 115 and same amounts of flours. I see the adjustment in water due to thirsty whole wheat flour but it’s way too much when I followed the quantities. Thanks again.

[@NovitaListyani]

Hmm, there are two possibilities that I can think of. One, the water is not hot enough, so gelatinization is not optimal. To fix this, make sure you are using boiling water. Second, the whole wheat grains you have are not that "thirsty". If that is the case, use less water, instead of 1:2 use 1:1.5 or even less, see which one ends up making a good quality bread. Tangzhong/Yudane is very flexible, you can easily adjust it to suit the characteristics of the ingredients you use.

[@rubychung5126]

Thank you so much for your reply. I used freshly boiled water from the kettle. It must have cooled down a bit as I didn’t measure my ingredients first so that’s the fault on my part. I adjusted the liquid on my second attempt, see how I go. It’s still not as thick as what I can see from your video but thicker and more gelatinous this time.

[@393287]

Awesome, I too use chopsticks to stir my flour dough, this way, less messy and thus easy clean up

[@NovitaListyani]

Indeed

[@gregharris128]

Thank you for all your content. I’ve learned so much from you recently-it’s helped my appreciation of pre-ferments immensely. Is this recipe okay for a Pullman loaf pan of like Jewish rye?

[@Larckov]

Great video. I love the scientific explanations. I think you are the only one giving those. I will try your recipe today (and tomorrow). Just one question, as I am not an expert on the topic (far away from it). The glucose index of the bread you made, with the mix of sourdough and instant yest, would be greater or lower than one with just sourdough? Or maybe similar? I know you did an explanation about the topic, but, even if I like the explanation, I don't get not everything (I like them because I learn from them). Thanks a lot!

[@justintee3291]

Whole wheat itself prevents gluten development and the same goes for Tangzhong, which will weigh a loaf of bread down and result in less oven spring. A method to mitigate this is to soak the whole wheat flour with the same amount of water (ie 1: 1) for 6-7 hours. Usually, for a loaf pan of this size, 300-325g flour will yield a full loaf.

[@justintee3291]

No offense intended - your knowledge of the science of the ingredients and their interplay in a recipe is clearly one of the best on KZbin. However, I do think the content of your video can be a bit more balanced. Perhaps you could focus more on dough kneading technique - ie the various stages of gluten development, the desired dough temperature, the stages to introduce water/liquid during the dough kneading process etc, which is way more crucial for an average home baker. I noticed that your dough has not been kneaded to full gluten development which is why this recipe calls for 400g of flour for a 450g loaf. The recipe can be tweaked slightly to improve the oven spring, yielding an equally good (or superior) product.

[@justintee3291]

At times, less is more.

[@agungsantoso1365]

Hi Ms. Novita thanks for the recipe, I'm new to this sourdough journey and want to know with no preservative added, how many days this sourdough bread can last at room temperature?base on your experience what the best way to preserve the bread after baking, on refrigerator or at room temperature?

[@NovitaListyani]

At room temperature and well covered, this bread should last about 3 days. In the freezer, it can last for weeks, so long as it's properly frozen. Make sure not to keep it in the fridge, as bread can retrograde/stale very quickly at 4°C.

[@agungsantoso1365]

Wow, your answer is very helpful and detail👍👍, thank you very much. This loaf seem interesting so soft, unlike classic sourdough loaf its like white bread, i plan to make one and hope my parent like it, because they used to eat soft bread. 🍞

[@twnori]

What do you think would be the difference if if the rice flour is substituted with gluten protein flour? Prior to the video I've been putting in a table spoon of gluten flour into a poolish with a spoonful of sourdough starter and some instant yeast, while also doing the tangzhong. I'm excited to give this a try, and will report the result!

[@wulanmagriet4570]

Hi Novita, couple things: 1. I think what you meant with thangzhong here is actually yudane . Thangzhong batter you put in on the stove, heat it up until it becomes paste texture. 2. I loovee so much whole wheat shokupan, right now I love to use autolysis method by putting all the dough (minus yeast and sugar plus small amount of water) into the fridge overnight in closed plastic bag. It turns out so delicious, easier and faster. What do you think abt this, in terms of the biochemical stuff you explain in this video? Ty so much.

[@NovitaListyani]

You seem to be new to this channel. Maybe these two videos of ours about Tangzhong can provide you with more information on Tangzhong/Yudane: kzbin.info/www/bejne/epu0aHiqq99-ldk kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZ6pipifgd9_ptE

[@johnmouton7529]

I've been making sourdough 100% (white) whole wheat pitas - which are quite good. I'm wondering if your tangzhong+poolish method can be adapted successfully to sourdough 100% whole wheat, perhaps with the addition of vital wheat gluten. I saw your video on 30% WW shokupan, which is brilliant, so I'm encouraged to think you might try to do SDWW pitas! Hope so!

[@dexterwilliams4289]

Should the tangzhong drop to room temperature after taking it out of the fridge?

[@nathanchan219]

I think I missed something. What’s the idea behind the rice flour. Also, in the previous shokupan 20% wholewheat you used honey, why the change back to white sugar?

[@mytrinh271]

please help me. If I want to use 100% instant yeast, how many grams should I use? Thanks so much!!!

[@nocko111]

Is ok to do the bulk fermentation on fridge over night?

[@pasuabe4179]

Is there a video where i can learn the benefits of fruit yeast water? Ty

[@NovitaListyani]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqXClYZte6l7pck

[@billndolo3599]

How much yeast should I use if I don't have sour dough starter

[@LuhLopes-vx8qn]

I don’t have a sourdough, what can I put instead please?

[@russellewis6558]

Om sai ram You are a wonderful bread maker.you did a video sourdough shokupan with 30% whole wheat 2 month ago.you used bread bin purple colour.can you please tell me what is the and where to buy please🙏

[@bonsaibaby8257]

Im gonna have to try this recipe tomorrow! I’ve always been curious but never asked. What is behind you? Looks like a wall made of boulders. I can’t seem to figure it out.😂 Anyways, thanks for your highly educational and yummy recipes!

[@NovitaListyani]

It used to be an artificial waterfall with a pond at the bottom :)

[@bonsaibaby8257]

@@NovitaListyani oh that makes sense. I bet it was beautiful!

[@myANwife]

can i use poolish starter?

[@NovitaListyani]

Yes, but the flavor and the texture of the baked bread will be different.

[@CharlesSibbald]

Please please may you do a “shokupan sourdough brioche Pullman loaf class”

[@MalcolmSalmond]

Loved this. Thanks so much. My Japanese milk bread is a favourite of all my family, thanks to you. You are a goddess of bread!

[@NovitaListyani]

Glad to hear that, shokupan bread is always a big hit here too!