Space Opera Worldbuilding: A Subgenre Deep Dive

[@LoreGeist]

Which Space Opera epic should be adapted next?

[@heretic5579]

@LoreGeist Sun Eater

[@dylanblack3635]

Buck Rogers is a Space Opera that many people don't think about and is kind of problematic now. Babylon 5 was another one that was rather well done and is often overlooked due to being overshadowed by Star Trek. As for books, I'm not particularly familiar beyond Dune, though I know there are several out there that skirt the edge of Hard sci-fi (Foundation comes to mind). I know I'm being a bit rambling with this, but the concept has always been one that has always interested me on some level.

[@heretic5579]

@LoreGeist Foundation

[@Dreamfox-df6bg]

@LoreGeist A deep dive into Space Opera and not even a honorary mention to 'Doc' E. Smith's 'Lensmen'? Tsk, tsk, tsk. A Death Star? How cute. You call that a fleet? We wouldn't even call it a flotilla. The Force? Not bad, not bad, not our way to evolve but the lightsabers are nice. Aliens beyond our comprehension? Yes, we got them. Space marines with axes? Check. and so on. Sadly, no robots and computers here. Can't evolve the mind by constantly using crutches. Given, the characters can come over as a little bland and the technology is based on transistors, but that's why we call it adaption, right?

[@LoreGeist]

@@Dreamfox-df6bg haha I didn't know these references so thanks for the recommendation 👌

[@jamesg9840]

Team Flash! He’ll save every one of us! Perfect space opera with the perfect soundtrack by Queen.

[@carsoncity591]

Star Wars will always have my heart, but the Gundam series (particularly the Universal Century timeline) is the perfect blend of Space Opera and Mecha Sci-fi I can't get enough of

[@GrayOperative]

Great video man! Would love to see a video on dark or grimdark scifi (dark gothic, warhammer 40k scifi, etc)

[@LoreGeist]

Thanks! We did a dark fantasy video before which included a bit about gothic and grimdark as well

[@matianlong7907]

I always considered these some classics of space opera : the adventures of David Falkayn, the cycle of David Flandry, the cycle of Flynx and Pip, the saga of the Technic History

[@craigcolduck2077]

Seeing Star Wars as a young teenage kid in 1978 blew my mind. The original Battlestar Galactica wasn't far behind. I devoured the original Star Trek TV series, THG, DS9 and Voyager, but I had to wait a bit longer for Dune. I had already read all the books, even before the first David Lynch movie came out and I read all the spin-off novels by Brian and Kevin before these most recent movies too. My favourite Space Opera in books would have to be the Culture series by Scottish author Iain M Banks, but my most beloved space opera on screen is Firefly / Serenity, because of the quirky characters and their development arcs. Ended too soon. I would like to see Firefly rebooted or continued, maybe with a next gen of characters now. I have my own ideas for a series along the lines of Firefly, but with a more Celtic bent, wider scope, more nations expanded out into their own stellar territories and a few alien races butting up against human space (or hidden within it). Of course, for Star Wars, I'd like to see George's original concept for the third trilogy done well.

[@RCSVirginia]

Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon of the serials, and even more so, Burrough's John Carter, Brackett's Eric John Stark and Moore's Northwest Smith, represent true Space-Opera heroes.

[@heretic5579]

Been looking forward to this. Loved the sword and sorcery video.

[@gimmeyourrights8292]

I was quite the Star Wars fan until I saw Galaxy Express 999, and I became quite entralled.

[@jeewoochoi4976]

Halo: Reach mentioned😭🙏 my favorite piece of media of all time 6:30

[@MrBCWalker01]

Space Opera is the creation of American author E.E. Smith, who took the Planetary Romance of E.R. Burroughs (which he started with _A Princess of Mars_ in 1917) and scaled it up to a universal scope and scale (which Smith did with the Lensman series from the 1930s to the 1950s). It's that simple. _Everything derives from Smith's Lensman._ Nothing has yet to beat it. Before that, it's all Planetary Romance. Good stuff there (from _Buck Rogers_ to _Flash Gordon_ as well as Burrough's own Mars and Venus series), but not the grand sweeping epic that Smith invented; without it you don't get _Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Space Battleship Yamato, SDF Macross_ (and its sequels), _Legend of the Galactic Heroes_ (still the best out of Japan, and the second-best overall), _The Metabarons,_ and more.

[@andrewmichaelschaefferXIV]

I feel the Dark Sun Prism Pentad books had an alien enough setting it was practically Space Opera but technically Sword & Sandal

[@looiyuanjieyuanjie1451]

Legend of the galactic heroes is also a very unique space opera and very political and philosophical.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Star wars for action, Trek for philosophy

[@andrewmichaelschaefferXIV]

Bsg for religion

[@Yarblocosifilitico]

Dune for sociology

[@LeWonderman]

Starwars has the best philosophy

[@smallpiper2]

Cringe

[@jamess885]

Yoda dropped some bars in _Empire_

[@junvloeberghs6999]

My favourites are Andor and Babylon 5

[@andrewmichaelschaefferXIV]

Team Barsoom ie A Princess of Mars The books

[@DStrormer]

Any chance you could hit urban fantasy next?

[@LoreGeist]

I’ll add it to the list :)

[@heretic5579]

@LoreGeistDresden Files and Jade City

[@adammcclelland5746]

Star Wars is dope.

[@sohrabroozbahani4700]

My first english work and my first project actually involving proper world building was in fact a space operah, a trilogy saga of approximately 4.5 million words, a first person tactical shooter of everything we loved in Tom Clancy's, call of duty, mass effect, halo and gears of war combined and if you think one merry sue was bad i have nine of them in there, one good special operation team of genetically enhanced warrior girls going around the galaxy and making a mess of everything they touch... royally 😅

[@thesneekione7983]

I need a link, bro, that sounds awesome.

[@sohrabroozbahani4700]

​@@thesneekione7983 not in here bro, house owner disagrees.

[@aSnailCyclopsNamedSteve]

repeat part 1 As a kid, I liked Flash Gordon, but it has not aged well. As a teenager, I read Dune when it came out. Unfortunately, they killed off the best character (the old teacher) in the first book and then took a religious turn. In case anyone is wondering why, this was the trend at the time. You can see it in Carter (president at the time) and Reagan. Star Wars dialed the religion down a few notches, but that is likely why the Force is presented as a faith.

[@jamestipton3342]

I once thought of a dystopic Solarpunk space opera, but certain plot holes kept showing up. Also for the next video why do Steampunk as it blend soft scifi with hybrid magic systems, Lovecraftian horror and Holmes analogies.

[@LoreGeist]

Steampunk and Lovecraft are on the list! Also, solarpunk space opera sounds amazing

[@rezaganjizadeh4263]

I struggle with the realism aspect. How much realism is too much?

[@robblumenberg5965]

I liked the Star Wars prequels, episodes 1-6 are the only canon!

[@aSnailCyclopsNamedSteve]

repeat part 2 I can see why religion, or a lack thereof, depending on one's views, would seem an important part of worldbuilding, but I think Tolkien (yes, off subtopic, but I am not well read in space lore) got the balance about right. Religion is a private relationship between a person and their god or gods. When it becomes a player in the story, it is like reading about the Medieval period, the Crusades, and the witch hunts. Conan also has a good balance where you see him praying to his god, in whom he truly believes, but he never joins a crusade.

[@LoreGeist]

If the religious views are being pushed subtly with the themes and plot that kinda bothers me a bit aswell. But overall religion can be an interesting theme to explore.

[@aSnailCyclopsNamedSteve]

@LoreGeist Agreed, pushing is not good. And religion is how people cope with the mysteries of life, thus a very appropriate topic. That same time as Dune, but starting earlier, psychology was explored instead of religion. The thing is, I enjoy meeting the people. Any derivative, be it religion, psychology, or science, is far simpler than a living being. Thus, religion as an expression of personality comes out genuine, but religion as a thesis comes out as pushy and fake. The first Dune volume was exploring the world and the people in it, thereby showing the religion. Later, it felt more like telling. Tolkien only shows it in the LoTR, while Conan gives a minimum explanation, the same as any time traveler might experience.

[@aSnailCyclopsNamedSteve]

repeat repeat part 1 As a kid, I liked Flash Gordon, but it has not aged well. As a teenager, I read Dune when it came out. Unfortunately, the best character (the old teacher) disappeared in the middle of the first book and then took a religious turn. In case anyone is wondering why, this was the trend at the time. You can see it in Carter (president at the time) and Reagan. Star Wars dialed the religion down a few notches, but that is likely why the Force is presented as a faith.

[@dawnfire82]

How hysterically stupid. 'That was the trend at the time, look at Carter and Reagan?' 🤣 Dune was written in the **50s.** Carter wasn't elected for an entire generation after. And it didn't 'take a religious twist,' it was explicitly religious from the beginning. The first scene with the protagonist is about Paul being the chosen one of a feminine cult who seeds the universe with prophecy and sees the future. The whole setting is ripped off from the Middle East, from the geopolitical concerns to the vocabulary (jihad, mahdi, shai hulud [eternal thing, in Arabic], padishah) to the desert setting, and the inspiration for the rise of an outsider turned warrior prophet to reconquer the desert homeland should be obvious.

[@aSnailCyclopsNamedSteve]

​@@dawnfire82 Actually Dune was first published as a book in 1965 (in Analog magazine starting in 1963) and I read it in the late 70s, obviously a reprint. Looking up the print history, vol. II is 1969, and vol. III is 1976, for which event the first two volumes were rereleased. Hence my mistake. (Herbert's SF career started in 1955.) Yes, Dune clearly borrowed from the Middle East; that was clear enough at the time. Lawrence of Arabia was released in 1962. Herbert began researching Dune in 1959. The Lawrence of Arabia film project had been off and on since the 40s, but was not likely in the news very much. Thus, Dune is probably not fan fiction, but its publication date could have been accelerated in order to cash in on the film boom. The first book used religion as a backdrop. Book II went overboard and lost me. I never finished it. Looking at the plot of book III (Children of Dune), it is over-complicated. So, I looked at the plot of book II. I can see how it developed from 40s and 50s propaganda, but would hit other sweet spots in the late 70s after Nixon and Ford. Read the Dune creation history, which starts in Florence, Oregon, USA, and continues with Native Americans, and then to T.E. Lawrence and other influences in that area and elsewhere. Is that better now?

[@MichaelS-jk8tj]

FARSCAPE!

[@charlieboone1298]

I can't speak for anyone else, but despite my allegedly secular educational environment, all of my teachers (almost all elderly women) were eager to push Christianity on us. We were all well-versed in old-testament stories, as well as our national history, particularly the medieval. This mix of history and spiritual story-telling primed me to enjoy Dune as much as I do, I think, even as Dune reveals how those things are used to manipulate people. It's that mix of the epic and the intimate, which exist in both religious and historical narratives. This obviously applies massively to Star Wars too, given how much Dune inspired it. I'm forever glad that Herbert ignored that litigious prick, Harlan Ellison, when he advised Frank to sue George Lucas.

[@Calebgoblin]

As much as I find ai scripts insufferable, I do appreciate you covering subgenres like this. Will keep watching the videos, but. Just saying I really prefer the parts where you are speaking your mind.

[@aSnailCyclopsNamedSteve]

repeat part 3 Religion in Game of Thrones is perhaps a problem. The lack of it there makes everything feel hopeless. The only one who had faith, the woman who raised the dragons, is killed off. I can read Conan because there is a hope of a better world, if not in this life, then in the next. I feel no hope in Game of Thrones.

[@LoreGeist]

With GoT it feels a bit weird how religion doesn’t play that much of a factor considering he tries to stay so true to the real world setting. But ultimately since it’s fantasy, even though it is inspired by reality, he can drop the religion factor as he wants

[@aSnailCyclopsNamedSteve]

@LoreGeist Agreed. Religion was divisive in the real world at that time, presumably causing him to want to avoid the subject. The way I remember the books, the astrophysics were described too well for such a technology level. Thus, the situation in the books may reflect the author's POV. It was just too depressing for me.

[@TimothyHo-q2w]

Star Wars with a different vibe genre.!?🤨🧐🤓👤👽👻💩🔞⚠️.

[@MrMuddyWheels]

I would argue Star Trek isn't space opera the JJ Abrams Star Trek movies and the horrorible Star Trek Discovery show are

[@Fabulist]

Sorry, as soon as you called Dune a Space Opera I was out. Dune belongs in the Planetary Adventure subgenre.

[@generationm2059]

That's true for the recent movie but the books are definitely in the space opera territory.

[@dougtricarico8344]

The first 3 Dune books aren’t space opera, nor are the movies. The latest movie was shown. Dune, Barsoom, Avatar - these are all part of the Planetary Romance subgenre. The word ”romance” has shifted definitions in recent decades, so it’s now called Planetary Adventure. If one is going to make a video defining a genre, then the definition should be adhered to. That’s just job one.

[@generationm2059]

@@dougtricarico8344 Makes sense.