[TF2] Tweaking TF2's Terrible Training

Some guy takes a tiny glance at TF2's training mode, only to take note of how trash and terrible the training is, thinking of tens of ways to tweak it.
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In before the video flops at 20k views. Shame. Also, before someone comments on me calling the Revolver a "bad weapon." It is... at least when compared to its direct upgrade the Diamondback, I don't like that system or "balance" but it is how it is.

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

3p1c tr1ck$tab at 7:34

[@OJWizzard]

epic!!!

[@AntonsVoice]

Only 90 deaths for learning scout?

[@AnnaSue81]

woowee

[@ShockInazuma]

(real)

[@KriticalSeverity]

Wow, your so good at the game!!!!!!1!1!1

[@MrTitan123-m6t]

Fun fact: You can use the setclass command in console to forcibly change off soldier in this tutorial with no negative effects save for janky messed up text box hints!

[@badman9682]

I love how the bombinomicon is far better at explaining things than Valve is

[@minibotas9496]

It’s also a lot simpler to explain one mechanic in 5 seconds than a whole ass game. “BAU-ZU! You got a bomb in your head, now go get that wizard!”

[@badman9682]

​@@minibotas9496 Medic be like : Here is an invulnerability for 8 seconds go shred thru some people

[@xdarin_]

You're a bomb now, go run into a wizard!

[@MrBallL0L]

@@minibotas9496 how do we have the same pfp

[@minibotas9496]

@@MrBallL0L it’s a cute drawing, how could we not?

[@aboreddudebrowsingyt]

Fun fact: doing the "go go go" voice line will also make a bot medic use their übercharge ...yeah that's all I got...

[@sloppysausage]

Bruh

[@nickrl113]

The "Go Go Go" voice line and not the "Use Ubercharge" voice line

[@totallynotabot8580]

@@nickrl113both will make Bot use Uber

[@Mrs.THECOMMUNISTCHANNEL]

Training: "Press E to call for healing" *F2P's: ....*

[@gabef.218]

To be fair, the f2p Silencing didn't happen until 2020, 10 years after the tutorials were made

[@OJWizzard]

the reason why rocket jumping isn't brought up in the tutorials is because it wasn't an intentional mechanic it was an embraced bug still should have it added though

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

This isn't true for TF2 though, if Quake were to have a tutorial than it would be since that's when Rocket Jumping was first "invented." You're essentially neglecting how TFC had the ability to Rocket Jump deliberately or how the Beta TF2 trailers also make heavy mention and use of it

[@OJWizzard]

@@SpaceGuyOnline I need to do research lol

[@CaptianKatsura]

If you want more evidence of rocket jumping being intended, the Soldier rocket jumps in the Meet The Soldier video, which came out before the game's release.

[@doododaadoo8673]

@@SpaceGuyOnline oh shit, THAT'S why it's called the original

[@princesscadance197]

The tutorial reeks of 'Oh right, we should probably finish making that' vibes.

[@istoleyunomilesbigmac]

i actually played this when i started playing tf2, wierdly the other tutorials don't work and the dustbowl part also doesn't work, i have read that issue on others too

[@jozzzlyn]

oh god he started putting alliteration into the titles too oh god oh fuck

[@renaramadan4626]

2:10 wait, chocolate milk doesnt come from BROWN COWS??!!?

[@nakkiibrks]

I started playing tf2 this year and man I wish the tutorial was better... Everything I learned about tf2 was from KZbin

[@georgethakur]

Yo, alliteration man, why isn't your name "Interstellar Internet Individual"?

[@KodamaH2]

Hey space guy I was in your medic game huge fan of yours

[@LargePotatooooo]

i love tim pinterest

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

Flat Out Information.

[@robuxyyyyyyyyyy4708]

3:05 Even more useless given that f2p players can't use voice lines

[@snod5436]

God i wish that you could just see the tips per class whenever you feel like it.

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

In the stats page you can although I'm pretty sure they're randomized

[@alface935]

@@SpaceGuyOnline Thoses ones you made are very well made trying putting on the workshop for people take thoses and use as sprays to help new players inside a match

[@snod5436]

@@SpaceGuyOnline yea ik its just that if they were by class it would be so much nicer.

[@drivanradosivic1357]

I also had a idea about a in universe class ifle drawer of advice and abilities that you open and see and use since knowledge is power and getting smart is needed to be better. also, a class specific training map would be great, as well as something similar in nature to TR Wdalkway but as a official Valve made map(not, make Walkway official, but make TR Walkway like stuff official).

[@alface935]

@@drivanradosivic1357 Very good idea

[@Great_Blue]

Having unlockable weapons that change playstyles significantly (like the Huntsman, Flare Gun, Chargin' Targe, etc) would be super useful for the tutorial. That's like the main draw of TF2 and shakes up the game quite a bit, why would Valve leave it out? I remember when I was new at the game and didn't know what unlockables were, I kept seeing Demos with swords charging at people and thought it was a base ability of the class. Since the concept of shields is never explained anywhere, I had no idea that you needed a separate item for it and thought there was just some hidden button you had to press while you had your melee out.

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

In the outro that I legit forgot to edit in I made mention of how the achievement weapons (which mainly comprise of the Ubersaw, Sandvich, Eyelander, Charge N Targe etc...) could be re-worked into a contract system like what we had for the Jungle Inferno weapons, teaching people what they do and rewarding them with the weapon "immediately" running than grinding achievements or praying for drop rng

[@pantuternik]

Maybe if you get one of these unique unlocks you either get a small explanation pop-up of what they do or a tutorial, ofc the latter would be harder to make, but the former would be very easy and not time-consuming to create

[@drivanradosivic1357]

@@pantuternik a stock weapons tutorial and a achievement unlocks tutorial would be great to have. Plus I also had a idea about free and premium user Contracts that are more about helping at learning the game and you get Mann Co store coins for it to buy stuff like war paints, strangefiers and so on. I even had a idea that Valve's Competitive could drop older crates, Mann Co keys as well as tools like strangefiers and depending on the season, unlocked Halloween crates and Smissmass tools sort of thing. IMO, Valve Com is actually Serious Casual, so give 6v6, 7v7, Highlander and cool items for rewards would work great as a play to win incentive, while Contracts also give a little play to win, and teach people cool stuff as well.

[@artifactU]

i also got confused why i wouldnt charge because i didnt know how even tho i didnt have a shield

[@Pygargue00fr]

Fun fact, a photo about an official rocket jumper training field got leaked online a few years ago. So Valve did indeed planned to update the training mode at some point:)

[@sud1881]

Oh I would like to see this for myself, what are some keywords that would help me search for it? (KZbin might delete your link but feel free to try, just write the instructions on how to find the image separately from the direct link)

[@Wiki1184]

Wish that was made. Would be nice to have a good official map to practice rocket jumping on.

[@TwistedFireX]

Valve never finishes anything.

[@digojez]

@@TwistedFireX they are so good at that, they hasn't finished trolling their fans with the valve time. 😔

[@daniellazo8669]

Never even left a source check

[@pantuternik]

I like the way the first tutorial's second section was made and wish most of it would be taught in a similar way, instead of in the vacuum of that shooting range. Like, maybe even incorporate that shooting range into some other maps and start the training in there, and then move on to a demonstration with other classes. For example, Engineer tutorial starts in the training room, and then a door opens and you appear in the cave spawn on Upward, where you're shown a bunch of teammates attacking some enemies on the second point, and they run out of ammo and say "need a dispenser here" and you're shown a good dispenser spot in the cave exit. Then, after you build it they all say "thanks and go on with their business as you're told to place a sentry to guard the cave so that you can hold your position. And this can go on with some other things happening, but I'd like this practical way of teaching more. After all, Engineer solves practical problems.

[@BabyGhast4]

That’s such a nice way of teaching engineer, I especially like how you provided reasons as to why the buildings should be placed, it teaches new players the value of the buildings and how their purposes can be incorporated into an in-game style situation.

[@slysamuel5902]

To this day I can’t rack my brain as to why they stopped making class tutorials at 4 of them. Were they so bad at making them they just forgot? Did they stop out of fear of spreading more bad information such as turtling? Were they fired as a result of making it, and everyone else was too scared to remove the tutorial and replace it because even coming close to it curses you with losing your frontal lobe?

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

There exists for sure a scrapped Medic training section as for the other classes, probably only the bare bones of them exist

[@jonkku]

Looking at the timing of updates coming out, the answer is clear-cut. They collectively thought writing tutorials and scripting bot scenes was boring and too much effort, until someone said "just make better players coach the new ones". Then they hastily developed half of a coaching system, pushed it to an update and called the new player issues solved.

[@durxg]

@@jonkku now said coaching system is useless because valve removed it entirely from the menu screen, what a funny twist

[@acclipse9262]

@@durxg Removed it from the menu screen?? It's still there for me though.

[@MaxNexus]

@@acclipse9262 yeah it's still there, but it's broken as it only works on community servers, not casual mode.

[@theclassyviking7351]

I wonder why after all this time no one has made some kind of modded tutorial that teaches the essentials of all 9 classes, aswell as the rules of every game mode. I know TF2 is basically only run by the community at this point, but no new players will know how to navigate the clunky server browser to find rocket jump training or other such tools. 1 solid tutorial overhaul mod that's easy to download the community could endorse and promote heavily for new players to find would do wonders for the games. No clue if this would be even possible but crazier things have been done.

[@Underqualified_Gunman]

Vscript being added makes this significantly more possible now.

[@theclassyviking7351]

@@Underqualified_Gunman what does Vscript do? I mean if it helps people make mods for this game than great, this is just the first I've heard of it

[@Underqualified_Gunman]

@@theclassyviking7351 allows mapper to access game code more limited than making a new mod but more powerful than the existing hammer entities.

[@Underqualified_Gunman]

@@theclassyviking7351 to give an example of it being used someone on the TF2 maps server is remaking VSH in Vscript

[@theclassyviking7351]

@@Underqualified_Gunman what's VSH?

[@redshell9205]

I feel like compiling everything in a bit match might be better. As you said with the sniper, demo, pyro examples but simply seeing a scout double jump above you, bumping into a spy somewhere, spy checking because a teammate pointed out a spy just to find that it was one of your teammates, heavy doing mostly the point and all with text boxes would be interactive and amazing for teaching the player and would get a general idea of the classes.

[@lamegamertime]

Perhaps there could be 10 training sessions. One where they compile all the classes into a match, like you suggest, and then the remaining sessions go more in-depth on each individual class. After all, while you can show a soldier rocket jumping, the player could still use some practice of their own. As well as for other classes.

[@redshell9205]

@@lamegamertime imo I feel like getting the player a gist and then say have fun is a better way as then the player choose what they want to learn after that point. As there is still bot matches you can just jump into they can simply test them out after the game holds their hand for a short while. Personally I’m not a big tutorial guy so I feel like freeing the player quicker is needed to get the player not just stop because of boredom. I get where you’re coming tho.

[@lamegamertime]

@@redshell9205 Well, the entire tutorial is optional. Players just play the first session, and if they're interested in one of the classes then they can do their tutorial.

[@redshell9205]

@@lamegamertime sorry that I’m late but a lot of other people start with tutorials, and also when I feel like I want to learn more about a character in a game I’m new to and choose to use the in game tutorial… often I just find everything there is stuff I already know. And anyway the rocket jumping tutorial can just be in the bot match.

[@lamegamertime]

@@redshell9205 Sure, the general tutorial _could_ teach rocket jumping, but soldier is not the only class who could use hands-on demonstration. Medic, engineer, and spy in particular. And the issue of you already knowing the information can be fixed by the game teaching stuff players wouldn't know... Though...tutorials are made for people who don't know anything about the subject matter...

[@bigblue344]

The worse thing for a new player is learning hitreg is bad and needing configs. I have over 2000 hours and tried many configs and I still can't seem to fix hitreg where I can even reliably use hitscan.

[@Spookiec]

interp issue

[@Ultrasteel74]

"Press E to tell a medic to heal you" *voice communication not available for this account*

[@YourAverageMelon1]

true

[@Davtwan]

A “movement” tutorial covering crouch jumping, explosive jumping, and fall damage all together in an obstacle course could work too.

[@lanxcapo7496]

you may think that valve teaching engies to turtle is bad, but at the very least they are tought how to be a mild annoyance, your average f2p med will take a solid 15 minutes to figure out that they have a medigun since they are never told so

[@pantuternik]

Maybe they should be told both ways. After all, an easily accessible dispenser gives you the ability to tank your sentry pretty well.

[@victorvirgili4447]

@@pantuternik Maybe a text box saying “Having a dispenser near your sentry gun can greatly help with maintaining it, but it can also attract the attention of Spies and Demomen that can easily destroy both, so remember to take a look at the enemy team when building!” It teaches both turtling and more aggressive engineering, while telling you what classes can destroy your nest

[@EnclaveSoldier2201]

I swear, tf2ubers are the few things single handedly pumping this game's heart.

[@Pygargue00fr]

Now that Vscript is being introduced into the game anyone who cared enough could be able to fix theses most of theses issues and post his training courses on the official Github. Now all we need is a guy with enough patience and dedication.

[@youraveragefloridaboy519]

"Wake up babe, the space man just posted"

[@Sometings_fishy]

"but it's 3am..."

[@Small_child_punter]

For the first year or so when I installed tf2, I did nothing but play against bots. I never went into pubs, just bots. Besides some bad habits, I’d say it paid off. But playing with players is the best way to learn the nuance of this game, naturally.

[@theenjoyer1445]

You really like your alliterations, dont you?

[@PowerUpT]

8:16 I'll argue that random crits cannot be explained at all, even most experienced players will yell "WHAT WAS THAT?"

[@PiepProductions]

Valve should hire you to write class descriptions, those were bloody on point.

[@MediTheFrog]

saw you while you got the medic footage. i swear next time ill make sure you dont walk away because of my poor aim

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

Should have accepted that duel since I got you with the Syringe

[@MediTheFrog]

@@SpaceGuyOnline you dominated me too then left i was so upset lol

[@therealpyroland]

Someone should make a tutorial map on the workshop that goes over all of this. Kind of like the campaign maps some people make. And then just get it added to as many tutorial steam guilds/KZbin videos as possible.

[@boKsenTF2]

great video, great editing, love it :D

[@DarkReaper12]

Can’t help imagining a ideal tutorial where its presented as a Class clone in a fancier hat teaches you how your class plays in the bunker, having the occasional enemy class “sneak in” for relevant mechanics, then concludes with a game mode best suited for the class with a few scripted bot placements and behaviors. The spy’s tutorial starts in the enemy bunker.

[@missingindy]

fun fact: found in the recent leak of TF2, there was found several training maps, with several things left out of modern training, including teaching players how to rocket jump and more

[@petzouqi76]

Left4Dead 2 has an unofficial tutorial campaign made by the community. tr_walkway is honestly not a good tutorial map, a good training map. But to teach players the unique abilities of each class, a similar endeavor as to what happened with the L4D2 community, has to take place.

[@VestedUTuber]

Ok, two things I'd recommend for Sniper: 1. Moving target practice where, after the initial overview of charge times and class health, the target bots start moving along prerecorded but very erratic paths. 2. Basic spacial awareness training, where a spy bot decloaks behind you while you're scoped in and doesn't do anything but gives you an example of why constantly staying scoped is a bad idea.

[@lsoerlsoer]

cool video basedguyonline, now go drink your maple syrup

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

Liquid Gold man, don't even diss real Maple Syrup

[@crazycactus717]

There are glass shards in my arm

[@crazycactus717]

I seriously have no memory of writing this whatsoever wtf?

[@AndresinReal]

I think some achievements works as tutorials "Batter up" incentives you to double jump more often "Bomb squaddie" teaches you to remove stickies with shotguns "Hot shot"/"hot potato" incentives you to reflect "Highland fling" teachs you about sticky jump And many more And also the loading screen tips can help you realize some stuff But the tutorials, yeah, they are done poorly

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

Loading screen tips should always be a "Oh" sorta deal not a key gameplay fundamental. Achievements are good to see your progress but they aren't good at actually teaching you how to progress, this is especially true when most people tend hop on givemeall servers

[@AndroCubed]

i think "highland fling" should be renamed to "the flying scotsman" since then it would also refrence a piece of history but yeah these achievements would be really cool

[@MajatekYT]

With the Medic in particular, it doesn't help that there is no HUD element that communicates that a hurt teammate will give you faster uber. A lot of TF2's mechanics aren't just unexplained; they're almost invisible.

[@FIVEBASKET]

Finally good tutorial Thanks

[@gloweye]

And during the medic tutorial, there should never be a mention of a syringe gun being a thing that exists.

[@thatslegit]

Surprised no one in the community workshop made a dedicated tutorial map to show what you are supposed to do

[@jackoxy9860]

I previously didn't liked this channel because of the awful audio it was, But now I'm here subscribed, like button broken, and really proud of how far you've gotten. Great work man

[@Manavine]

I would honestly have heavy be the basic training. He's the easiest to use in casual, but also the most basic. For the most part, I'd have the player learn the class, though learning basics with the heavy... Then recreate a scene from their meet the teams, to let the player FEEL like they got an understanding of the class.

[@vivelespatat2670]

That's actually genius, classes tutorials that recreate the Meet The Team videos would be insane

[@sandvicheatfresh]

have each tutorial go over each classes basic ability eg have scout double jump over a fence, soldier rocket jump over a gap, pyro reflect a rocket etc etc and lock casual and comp til they are all completed. this will give new players enough of a push in the right direction where they can play the classes somewhat effectively while also slowing down bots from ruining casual by a whole 5 mins

[@localtomboylocalmaniacloca6759]

Did he just accidentally make a parody of "We didn't start the fire" just by naming TF2 techniques?

[@andrezits9723]

Random Ben 10 Ultimate Alien Cosmic Destruction reference is greatly appreciated, thank you

[@lunar_cat666]

I have played tf2 for a month now and I did not know what crouch jumping was until you mentioned it

[@ducksi1]

"quebec instead of full-on france" omg perfect line

[@zer0ishere]

lol, as a medic main i feel that lack of medic tutorial i think that a medic tutorial should be split into: how the medigun works: showcasing the medibeam's range, ability to match target's speed, debuff reduction time and well, healing ubercharge: uber rate (injured enemies vs applying overheal vs full overheal, also introducing this function) activating uber (uber duration/flashing teammates) and last and least a section to teach medic's actual effectiveness, by placing the player on a fight to show how shitty medic stock primary and melee are)

[@wizzelmiggel8706]

For like a good minute i thought it said "twerking tf2's terrible training"

[@celestialowl8865]

The reason engies put their sentry and dispenser next to eachother has nothing to do with that tutorial, I can reasonably promise 90% of players haven't gone through the tutorial. It's just a reasonable assumption when taken without context of how the game works.

[@celestialowl8865]

Also, to answer your question: spy is who doesn't have autoreload on right now lol

[@PigeonLord]

While I agree the tutorial system needs to be improved, I must admit there’s a special kind of serotonin hit I got whenever I figured out something like rocket jumping or damage surfing way back in 2013 when I first started playing. Learning on the fly can be really fun too for new players; so long as said players don’t expect to win every time

[@chuck_muckle]

8:41 why is the medic's bonesaw blade missing here?

[@akihikosakurai4013]

As much as the tutorial sucks, when I first started playing tf2 in 2014 I learned a lot through trial and error and random chance. Like when i accidentally held m1 for a second too long while launching sticky bombs and found out you could charge them

[@viket8316]

I feel like the trqining mode should give a reward at the end a mannco box That will unbox any hat or weapon for teach you what a mannco box is but key is not tradable the unbox stuff cant be strange or unusual and will always be a non craftable hat

[@Seal_Dev]

Wait you can use enemy dispensers when you're disguised? Who thought the video on how trash tutorials are actually teaches something the tutorial doesn't?

[@lucashammer12]

No training mode at all would truly be more useful than the current one.

[@PainTrainLover69420]

I was genuinely thought that the video was explaining TF2's Terrible"Trading"

[@Ribbons0121R121]

Hurtling in a cheeky spot is only fun when you get to do it like with the eureka effect wrench

[@maxis_scott_engie_maximov_jr]

When I started TF2 I haven't watched any vids about the game on YT prior, only the Meet the Team vids on Steam page, and that somehow gave me enough knowledge to do a proper first match in Practice Mode, haven't even done all the class courses And for a first match it went really good, knew how to hide stickies, kept in mind Heavy's revup, even knew when to watch out for Spies and use Medic's Syringe Gun effectively, only didn't know how to upgrade the buildings, but already knew which building did what and how I should place them, even knew how to remove Sappers The only part that took some time to get used to is unlockables, that one should definetly be explained, that is the only part that made me WM1 since it's like "Oh cool a new weapon it has to be better!" when you get your first one

[@ForgetfulHatter]

as a tf2 player with 1k hours. I'd of loven training for each class. showing scouts speed and damage, pyros airblast, medics life saving uber. all the good and maybe bad habits to learn and avoid. (cough) going sniper and spy because instant kill. but i guess....maybe... they didn't wanna overwelm new players? idk. maybe valve could have done a deal with map makers or something that after basic class training is done they can recommend playing community made training maps. I for one would love pyro training. with slow moving rockets to teach basic air blasting then moving up to ingame projectile speeds. airblasting is an artform.

[@MikeHawk-bg5ss]

literally the moment i went back to check on the training mode this video popped up

[@diamonddawg12]

Why is the community better at creating thins for the game than the actual creators of the game?

[@mrcomp1971]

How can new players even ask the Medic to pop their über? Voice commands are disabled for them.

[@BlueBird1994_]

That change was made in 2020 so practically a whole decade after the training mode was implemented. (which, by the way, was a crappy band-aid fix by Valve to address the bot crisis but ended up being utterly useless anyways because they just circumvented it anyways.)

[@therealevilmudbug]

HOLY AHIRFHEJW M DWE HE USED EARTHBOUND MUSIC IN THE OUTRO OH MY GOD

[@spooky6703]

3:10 yep, 600+ hours and I had no idea that was a thing

[@poopman6916]

I feel like the TF2 tutorials were made just for the sake of having a tutorial.

[@AlliroG98]

3:14 Isn't X3 actually "Sentry ahead"?

[@stealthbeastgaming]

Meet the team videos were a 10x better tutorial than the actual tutorial. Scout: "Scouts are fast, they can take out deceptively strong opponents with their speed." (added bonus: Heavies are slow. Its a huge weakness for them, exploit it) Soldier: "He can rocket jump, and he's all about killing shit. ALL shit. Demomen, medics, heavies, pyros, sentries, spies, even other soldiers. There's nothing he can't effectively engage with." Pyro: "Burns shit" (admittedly this one was just about character development) Demoman: "Blows shit up. Can attack in lots of creative, indirect ways. Trivializes sentries. Sets traps that can stop entire teams. The thinking man's carnage class." Heavy: "Shoots shit" (admittedly, another one just about character development) Engineer: "Makes sentries, solves problems." (HORRIBLE lesson actually) Medic: "The backbone of the team. Heals classes of all descriptions. Can push in with ubercharge in situations a team is otherwise hopeless in." Sniper: "Kills people from a distance. Preferably from a hidden location, preferably in the head, and especially if they aren't aware of you. Weaker when spotted, but isn't a push over in melee range." (Jesus christ, what a succinct summary of this class) Spy: "Helps provide intelligence to team. Counters engies. One of the few counters to even fairly vigilant snipers. Sows confusion in the enemy team." Sandvich: "Om nom nom, nom nom" The pyro and heavy don't really NEED a tutorial to be baked into their 'Meet the' vids.. they're pretty self explanatory classes (conceptually... obviously nuances get really wild at higher levels of play). The only truly egregious thing I think is making Engy look like all he does is solve problems by making sentries... probably part of the reason so many new players tunnel vision on sentry production, when the true order of team usefulness looks more like Teleporter > Sentry > Dispenser > You running in with a shotgun... and even that's situational.

[@BriceInkling138]

Whenever I open up Training Mode to unlock the other classes, I can't seem to move even though I pressed W. It's not fair! Why can't I move if I am training as Soldier on my laptop?

[@awesomeau121]

The only thing I learned from the training is that I could charge stickies

[@davitdavid7165]

I also noticed the tutorial telling you to call for Medic when valve made them unable to do so. Also, I think that showing people what the spy looks like from 3rd person ehen doing his stuff could be a good way to teach them. If the bot mirrored your movements instead and there was both a friendly and an unfriendly spy it would probably teach you even more and allow you to play as and against the class better.

[@SpaceGuyOnline]

That was a change made literally a few months ago and doesn't have anything to do with the other 12 years the training section has been out for

[@davitdavid7165]

@@SpaceGuyOnline I know but it would still be frustrating for s new player. Also alongside the things I edited in the comment I want to mention how you did not mention airblast having a knockback effect or comboing.

[@kormana]

training mode would be good if it gave a hat

[@morganleighty7580]

Awesome thanks for a non tier list video

[@Esomres]

If I ever make an FPS, I'm going to use TF2's training as a guide what not to do when making a tutorial.

[@erikldm]

7:48 wait u can use enemy dispencer?

[@JohnJones-mp3in]

I like MILK I LIKE MILK I LIKE MILK !!!!!!

[@scribblecloud]

wait what training stage? I dont remember that??? I just remember being in a room with cardboard cutouts

[@SnowyFoxlinn]

"Like Denver, there's not much going on here..." Is Denver some kind of word I'm not familiar with or are you actually mocking about how boring the city of Denver is?

[@Duothimir]

When the game was part of the physical release of the Orange Box, it actually had a manual that explained the unique abilities of each class. Remember game manuals? No? Damn I'm old...

[@BlueBird1994_]

I feel bad for my friend who I tried to get into TF2 had to play through such a crappy half-assed training mode that barely taught her anything useful because she didn't get to learn much or any of it at all. Honestly there's a lot of stuff myself I've had to learn on my own or through others in the community. I was fortunate enough to at least have a friend (who'd gotten me into the game) coach me on the basics to get me started, and also a time when he helped me learn crouch jumping. But aside from that yeah had to pretty much learn by myself. This game has a lot of complexities that no average player would even know where to start with. It's really a shame that TF2's training mode barely scratches the surface.

[@l9m241]

Map Collab Contest Idea: Remake a tutorial based off one of the nine classes that covers the basics. An optional 10th one can also be done for general misc information (unlocks, objectives, etc)

[@lonelyshpee7873]

I hate that it teaches you thosw stupid rules about which weapon to use as Soldier depending on range... Just gets players into the wrong mindset. Should've just had a short section showing that your rockets can damage you at short range and that your shotgun has damage fall-off.

[@Martyste]

It's sad how even Half Life 1 itself had a proper obstacle course tutorial, *with* the crouch jump explained and required to progress!

[@PyroGaming...]

The tf2 tutorial isnt as bad as people say it is because if you think about it was made in 2008 and people in 2008 didnt know half of this shit and its just outdated

[@WednesdayMan]

"Auto reload, who doesn't have that on by now?" I don't use Auto reload, I just leave it off. it's good that it is on by default. but it isn't for me.

[@dirkechoes1377]

I can't hate training too much. Anyone who needs a text box to tell them the remote detonated explosives can be used for traps is.... Utterly braindead. Part of TF2 is learning things ON YOUR OWN. Things like Pyro extinguishing, rocket jumping, and medic... Everything should definitely be in there because they're unique to tf2's class design. They're not usual fps mechanics but things like the revolver, bottle, and sticky bombs... Don't need a tutorial. Anyone who can operate a mouse and keyboard should know how remote bombs work

[@DarkReaper12]

“Pyro’s airblast deals increased damage”!!?!? How did I play play Demo for 2 years straight and only get to know this horrifying fact now!? Gawddang, TF2’s tutorial is shit. I’m surprised there aren’t community servers that teach it all using bots.

[@Spookoffi]

Tf2 players when they need to use their brain to understand mechanics and do basic functionality (impossible)

[@andraskovacs5431]

Now imagine a tutorial/story with 3 maps. Dustbowl, Upward and 2fort Dustbowl stays mostly the same, with a few added steps. Here monkey sees. Then Upward attack we have monkey do with scout doing the first third, to get blown up by a sticky trap or a soldiers rocket. So we change into pyro, pushing people off of cliffs, destroying sticky traps, airblasting projectiles, extinguishing teammates. And be an absolute menace at choke points. But we get killed by a sentry around last. Here we get a soldier tutorial and finish the push. Now we get a defensive team. Start as Demoman with a few sticky traps, learn about pipes, rollers see how uber pushes work and die to a pyro airblasting us Then comes Heavy to hold the middle of the map. We use a teleporter, see an engineer building get sapped, when there's too many enemies we reposition. Then get headshotted or backstabbed. Finaly at last we have to hold out as engineer. We might even push the enemy back and move that gear up. Build teleporters, defend our best from a spy, put the dispenser on the frontline to help our team. And win. Then finally on 2 fort you do a sniper duel. And take out some enemies moving towards your base. You might learn about how your laser dot can be seen on the wall. But some sneak in through the tunnel and take the inteligence. Killing you on the way out. Then you change to spy. Sneak in to their base and take out a sentry nest then run home. You try again but get bumped, set on fire and killed. Finaly you do a medic push with your team. Destroying an enemy defensive position with an offensive über. Then as spy you take out a sentry nest in front of the enemy spawn

[@afelias]

To be fair, some of the stuff they failed to showcase was in the "Meet The..." series, so when people started playing in the early 2010s I assume they had that out of game information. Dunno what it's like if you're totally new to TF2 in the 2020s though. Do new people still watch those videos?

[@Thomas-vn6cr]

Its a shame. I bet a lot of the game's growth is hindered by being so unaproachable. Thanks Valve.

[@arc_4543]

Judging by the background music, there is some seriously common overlap between TF2 and PMD players, and I appreciate it greatly.