How Quickly Should Ships Die? (Ft. Yogi Klatt & Avenger__One) | Podcast Clip

With engineering, component damage, and ship disabling becoming a focus of Star Citizen combat, and armor not even being considered, there's plenty of speculation to be had about time to kill in Star Citizen. In this excerpt from my recent podcast with Yogi Klatt & Avenger__One, we discuss what it means to kill, and how long that should take.
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Guests:
Avenger__One
KZbin: / @avenger__one
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Yogi Klatt
Twitter: / yogiklatt
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[@Reaver-One]

He makes a good point at the end. If ships are going to cripple or be rendered ineffective due to parts falling off, it makes sense why the time to kill is higher. You don't have to destroy their ship, just cripple it. This allows there to be a winner, as well as a chance for the losing pilot/crew to escape with their lives and possibly recover their ship later.

[@malismo]

These bits published seperate from the whole stream are great reference material. I love it!

[@rhetor4mentor13]

A1 makes a great point about TTK. I think the answer will lie in distinguishing "time to neutralize" being short, but "time to totally destroy and send you back to Orison hospital" being much higher. That'd mean a snappy, satisfying combat that leaves defeated pilots alive but stranded, rather than an excessively long TTK making combat tedious and success inaccessible to rookies.

[@benthomson1132]

This is 100% what I'm hoping for.

[@JL-rj9fl]

Time to neutralize would definitely depend on the target you're attacking and what you're attacking with. It seems like we're finally moving in the direction where some ships simply won't be able to do anything versus other types or sizes of ships - which is a really nice thing to see. It gives more credence to ships designed to fight certain types of ships: the retaliators, gladiators, etc. of the verse. It delivers a much deeper team experience as well. Escorting strike packages against large ships, etc.

[@rhetor4mentor13]

@@JL-rj9fl 100%. I meant implicitly that the time to neutralize should be brief _given_ that the attacking ship has appropriate capabilities against its target. Making light fighters nothing more than a distraction or cannon fodder for frigates and capital-sized ships for instance is key. Especially for engineering/multicrew gameplay to be viable, but also because it'll give meaning to anti-frigate ship roles.

[@JL-rj9fl]

@@rhetor4mentor13 I understand, makes sense for sure. It's an exciting time for us, I'm really looking forward to seeing them balance it out.

[@Anonnymouse53]

It's a shit point tbh. Completely hypothetical. With low ttk, the player that attacks wins nearly always. Anything beyond 2-3 bursts to kill, it's all skill and even that outlier is gone. A good pilot is going to be first on the guns and more accurate, lowering the ttk doesn't give a lesser pilot anything. The Only thing that assist a lesser player's chances is higher RNG that drops the skill ceiling. We cannot have our cake and eat it. You want a playerbase that PvPs besides Arena Sweat. Low floor, high ceiling is a myth. Or at least that is to say there it's elastic, buy at some point you have to pull in one direction or it snaps. Plenty of games went through this and ended up better off & all the "elite" players who said they would leave, realised there was plenty more in the game experience keeping them there besides their 3 years of muscle memory.

[@AccidentalFriendlyFire]

A lower time to kill us to the advantage of the attacker. Higher time to kill us to the advantage of the person attacked. Skill is not the issue affecting this. Because let's flip A1's question around: is a lower or higher time to kill better for a rookie who gets attacked?

[@lucasvb4372]

It is blatantly obvious in every podcast and video A1 does that he has a very clear, extremely pvp biased view of the game. That's not a bad thing for pvp players, but take everything he says with a handful of salt. A 2.5 second ttk is extremely beneficial for highly skilled pilots but also griefers, as people under attack will barely have time to react before taking significant damage or dying. In a competitive, AC-like setting a sub 3-4 second ttk may be viable but otherwise that is too low to be feasible in game that isn't centered around pvp.

[@pashkracken4054]

I'll be the first one to acknowledge Avenger is good at 1v1 fighting. I expect he will spend more time in Arena Commander due to his competitiveness. Which is fine to each their own but... not many orgs, mine included, don't allow it..... we fly in four ship flights and train hard not to get baited into one-on-ones.. because that's how you get picked apart.. and his videos are evident of that. I don't expect to come across them so much as most of our Ops happen out in deep space where light fighters don't go unless they have a carrier or flying gas tank close by.

[@ufeelinselfrighteous8470]

AV1 is good for sure. but the issue that I have had with the previous flight model(s) AV1 exemplifies. it takes WAY too much energy to be that good, and it is only useful in 1v1's, or Mobbing. I think AV1 makes good points, but his criticism of the MM's still comes off as disingenuous.

[@JL-rj9fl]

Exactly. Good tactics and communication are critical to any successful operation. Sounds like you guys have got it together.

[@RicoZaid_]

Yogi is sharp. We're lucky to have him.

[@leevah]

Really appreciate his dedication, I'm sure their team is gonna do great stuff in the future.

[@Focke190]

Yogi does not have even a opinion about Ttk, thats sad mark

[@IMONSTER13]

Addition of maelstrom is going to be so amazing. I can’t wait to go out salvaging and end up rescuing someone. Or towing a wreck back to station. ❤

[@benthomson1132]

Do you happen to know if the armor system built into Maelstrom? Or is it something that needs Maelstrom to come online first before armor is properly instituted?

[@rolln8ths]

Love he said it’s too high. Agree. I hate bullet sponges. Having to put more than 10 rounds into someone’s chest is never fun.

[@lennoxdantes7555]

What breaks immersion... is a high ttk.

[@kenzoryba1017]

one solution would be to make fighters die fast, and other (bigger) ships harder to kill... another solution would be to make TTK shorter in Arena Commander...

[@floppalore]

Massive W

[@Focke190]

2sec is one burst from F8. Mad suggestion total bs. TTK 2,5 sec ... what? What just happened.. dead. Why we have escape pods, component repair, firefighting. Gl with your Call of duty ttk.

[@ibaphomet6291]

I think he's talking about single seat fighters without shields. There's some context missing before this.

[@house382]

The everyone needs skills guy wants low time to kill? Why? Low time to kill encourages ambush tactics. Not learning to fly. Not getting the proper load out. Just surprise. Seems kind of odd to me. If they want to make a twitch reaction tester in AC, go for it. The lower the time to kill in the PU is, the fewer people there will be doing non-combat things. I quit playing EVE when a cheap corvette could take out a Venture in high sec before security showed up, and I know I'm not the only one. The same thing will happen here if time to kill is low. Nonconcensual PvP should be hard. A 2-2.5 second time to kill on a Vulture/SRV/Prospector/Hull A won't be that.

[@metalist8342]

super 👍

[@VFW-Mayer]

Back Strafe is just as Valid as Side Strafe. Its in Space. Get use to it.

[@Kingdomkey123678]

What’s fun for the video game is more important than realism ultimately

[@fishbaitx]

This is not DCS world in space it's a fun game not a sim get used to it

[@VFW-Mayer]

@@fishbaitxExactly, if this was a realistic space sim, your main guns would shoot in reverse as your main thrust would be used to run away and shoot behind you. In Space people would use rockets for long range, and Point Defense Systems. This is not The Expance. It is a ww2 in space sim with fighters shooting forward, and big ship cannons for long range. Once they add the Proximity Fuse ammo for the larger guns, Fighters will be ripped apart just like in WW2.

[@Kussii]

TTk is way To High atm, TTk needs to be 30to50secs for small ships and x1.35 for med and so on or players will just go and Quit the game and probs get a Refund. How els is a Newbie gonna learn?

[@Enderfan7363]

Sorry but SC is a game with permadeath, having a TTK as short as that is entirely unviable once DoaS comes in.

[@a.j.6832]

30 to 50 seconds of continuous damage is loooong… a small fighter, imo, shouldn’t last longer than a few seconds under direct fire. Adding dynamic to the system and adding RISK to the system will force people to adapt to survive- this is what needs to happen imo for us to get a meaningful experience out of survival.

[@Kussii]

@@a.j.6832 your missing the point, there is how many types of Weapons ingame that do different types of damage and then theres shields / modules will have different Hp lvls? weak spots?

[@Kussii]

@@Enderfan7363 permadeath hmmm ? a situation in which a character cannot reappear after having been killed. is that in SC?