Capital Ships Are A Much Bigger Deal Than We Thought | But Will They Work? (Ft. Croncy)

[@TheHeliommm]

Capital gameplay was the most fun weve had as a small band of players. 7 players can have a good time on a polars and a fighter or two. We had a blast tackling the Idris. Pdcs work btw

[@CitizenScott]

It definitely is a new shiny object.

[@danny1988221]

they have to make it where you can log off and on in the same area for those capital ships to be used 100% imagine logging in and a night crew getting off and another crew logging in taking roles over and also being in a whole different area the next day, trusting that the other people will keep the capital alive for when you log back in your still "home" that would be cool, until then its too time costly to crew capitals all day everyday with a team. ill keep using my polaris solo for now.

[@johnzoidberg1160]

That would be awesome.

[@cheersfan4328]

The battles against the Idris, the large ship ganeplay around it and the accompanying missions have been the best experiences I've had in Star Citizen so far. If I wanted sell someone on this game I would take him along to make that mission chain up to the Idris.

[@sanctred]

Me too but the fact they are bugged on most servers is a giant kick to the nuts around the ability to have fun and enjoy these missions.

[@Henweiss]

⁠@@sanctredmet a guy at a recent bar citizen that told me what’s causing that issue is related to people trying to board and/or hijack the ship. My experience so far has matched that.

[@sanctred]

@@Henweiss me too, I agree

[@RobotSpartan]

Exactly as Tomato said @17:24 From the way they described capital combat, i actually thought "star wars battlefront 2" (the 05 one). Space battles consist of disabling components on the opponents capital - shields, PDS, comms, etc - either externally, or by boarding and fighting through to take them out, so your capital can land a critical hit. And honestly? im all for that

[@kentyannayon3741]

I was one of the first in on my first run of Slicers Incursion, most were holding back waiting for more to arrive to help. I was in my Sabre, which I had been flying for the Phase 2 assassination missions. The force multiplier of being able to hit and run with working stealth mechanics was impressive, and when the others saw ships exploding they joined in. I don't think half of them were even aware I was there until it was just the Idris. I watched as heavy fighters exploded around me as they took fire and could not escape the firing arc in time. The fact that my Sabre reported the kill tells me I got the last shot in. The whole event screamed of being the hero of a space opera, from flying in to rescue traders, to sniping operatives under the protection of local gangs, to taking on a sizeable fleet with the community. Unfortunately my attempts at joining a Polaris crew have not been fruitful, disconnects, bugs, and other issues have made it difficult to get one running at peak efficiency. I have my own Polaris, but it's easier to find a crew recruiting than to recruit a full crew. I think there will be a day where recruiting crews is a lot easier, particularly with the 380 server cap of 4.0. Unfortunately, it seems much of the active community has their own Polaris, so we're still going to have to take turns.

[@jadenpayne914]

This is what Star Citizen is about! Crew up with us, we also have a Polaris with a starting crew of about 4-5 of us 🤷‍♂️

[@johnzoidberg1160]

Sounds amazing. By the time I jumped on nothing was working anymore. 😢 Really hope server meshing brings in a new era of performance and long term stability for the servers.

[@Alias_Reign]

Avenger one is the only person I see speaking about the geometry problem and the light fighter meta, and he’s absolutely right. Unless they speed up weapon travel time on larger ships, closing the massive range advantage small ships have, then we will always be better off taking the crew assigned to multi crew capital ships and assign them to light fighters. This can’t simply be done based off weapon size, it must scale off the relative size of the ship the weapons are fitted to. Example: A size 5 weapon on a Polaris must have a must faster fire to impact rate than a size 5 weapon on a medium fighter. Otherwise smaller ships will dodge every shot outside of a 600 km range, while landing every shot against the larger target (in PvP). Unironically in PvP this game is currently pay to lose.

[@countrycraftscustomwoodworking]

I think once they enable (if they go this route) other players to create contracts that other people can accept that will add alot to the game. You wanna hire a crew for your capitol ship? Throw out a contract or two requesting engineering support. Want to try a large scale mining or salvage operation? Make some contracts. Obviously for larger scale endeavors they will need to scale up some stuff but I can see it being a viable option to breathe more life into the game and give people more opportunities to engage with others in positive ways. I am curious and excited (though I keep myself grounded it is SC here lol) about the future of the game moving forward.

[@drksideofthewal]

Corvettes are the smallest class of capital ship according to CIG, and the Polaris is the first true corvette. The thing that confused the matter for a lot of people was the Hammerhead erroneously being labeled as a corvette when it’s a “gunboat.”

[@Dargini]

I want to fight off Kingship fleets for bounties, salvage, and reputation.

[@Valium_x]

Croncy is such a chill, insightful and relatable guy. SpaceTomato you are the king of SC interviews bro. Loved this episode.

[@JaleTechAndGaming]

I imagine that Chris R wants to play his game solo at some point, so solo will definitely be viable is almost every scenario. They added NPC led dungeons in WoW, so basically it's just Raids now. FF14 has NPC dungeons and Raids.

[@CosmicD]

When I heard them talking about this in IAE episode 2 , it went kind of under the radar first but I finally caught them actually having a game plan for this now. We were always playing XT and arlington gang with this idea that captial ship battle was already awesome because we needed to be able to orient ourselves in a pretty tight space around the ship without crashing into eachother and focus on the shields. And that was already awesome, but there are going to be so much more layers to it when the fully physicalized maelstrom, engineering and physical item behavior is added to it. Great stuff! Also for pvp players who will have to keep their capital ship operational if it isn't an AI ship.

[@matteobarbarini3120]

You got it!

[@merclord]

@20:20 - I think large fleet battles can be organized by simply having filters. For example, a filter to see only capital ships, another for enemy bombers, and another for enemy fighters. To make things even more fun, scout ships like the terrapin can scan all the enemy ships as they come in-range and feed that info back to the fleet, so each player does not have to manually scan every ship. Furthermore, the holo globe map should be customizable so you only see ships within a certain range. Now the entire battle can be broken down into different categories of threats. And just like in the RL, a fleet admiral can give general orders to a group of ships and let the ship captains manage the battle in their immediate area. I think this is the direction CIG is going and it will make the game fun because everyone does not have to worry about everything going on all at once, they only have to focus on their immediate surroundings. Capital ship PVE missions. I think this would be a good opportunity to expand on instanced servers. A solo player mission could take them to an disabled Javelin or a Polaris sending out a distress call. When the player lands, they actually switch to an instanced server which is the entire ship. Here they could interact with an NPC crew to do repairs, or man a turret or fight a boarding party, etc... Once the mission is complete, they get back in their ship and leave - back to the PU.

[@4tonmike]

Having seen the fixes since September, my attitude is turning positive towards CIG now, which is a lot for a previously very jaded Year 1 backer who turned 40 this year.

[@RoninX33]

Yeah, going to need the good amount of people to crew all of this stuff for the Star Wars level hopium battles.

[@heavymetalsazabi]

I feel like ships should have berthing for 20% more people to accommodate guards and engineers. I'm also hoping we get a capital class snare ship, Drake Leviathan would be cool.

[@aevacado]

Those new Party Tools should help with these events a lot, so much fun as a group, but daunting as a solo. Great discussion! ❤

[@Qwarzz]

Maybe capital ships can use the holotable to mark targets for rest of the fleet. Could have UI there to select targets easier. In EVE we had someone in chat calling out targets to concentrate fire, then you had to find it from the list. We can already mark targets with numbers in SC so that just has to be made better for fleet battles. I'm curious to learn what the incentive will be to board a ship instead of just destroying it. Getting the cargo intact is one but that won't apply to fleet battles.

[@Rummyson]

A corvette is the smallest class of Capital Ships. Then its followed by Frigate Light, Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Battlecruiser, Battleship, Escort Carrier, Fleet Carrier, and then Dreadnought. These classes are based on real Navy class of ships and have been pretty well defined among numerous Sci-Fi IP's over the years. Expect a LOT more capital class ships to come down the road.

[@azntactical4884]

If they do a group find, they should also include certain roles that needs to be filled. That way, the person joining the group knows their main duty. If that position doesn't get filled by a player, npc will fill that role.

[@TruthIsKey369]

The more indepth technical it gets, the more rewarding it will become. That demands skill and time to be mastered, which will give players a lot of options. Perfect in my eyes Every scifi fan will come to play for sure

[@TairnKA]

Looking it up it seems the title for a "Capital Ship" (coined in 1909) is a Military vessel of WWI and II was with large caliber guns and heavy armor protection (battleships and battlecruisers/heavy cruisers), though in WWII the aircraft carrier was considered a capital ship, but Cruisers, despite being important ships, were not considered capital ships. I feel that the most capable defensive and offensive, Military ships that also can command a fleet of ships should be classified as a "Capital Ship". With that, technically an 890 Jump shouldn't be a capital ship, but in command of an "Exploration Fleet" may be the loophole. ;-)

[@randomuserame]

Pro Tip: The Polaris is NOT a capital ship in the grand scheme of all ships. Capitals are generally the biggest ship, or the one with the most strategic importance (the flagship, typically with an Admiral), or have the most combat power. FOR NOW it is _The_ capital ship. But if you include all ships still in concept/development, the Bengal is the pinnacle capital ship, and then Kraken, then Jav, Polaris, then HH/Perseus. Generally, Capital ships are carriers, but the Polaris is both physically much smaller than the other ships (including Idris), and also doesn't have enough fleet carrying capabilities to be considered a capital even by today's IRL naval standards. It's only a capital in that we don't have anything bigger that's "permanently available." It's a sub-capital Corvette that currently _functions_ as a capital since it's the largest ship with also the highest theoretical combat power, of any player-operated ship (save for Grand Theft Idris). They ARE [seemingly] using it to test/balance multi-crew larger-scale space battles. But you should expect a relatively sizeable nerf (especially to those torps) at some point. Likely around Perseus time and/or whenever the ACTUAL capital ships are flyable (which in all honesty, should be saved for post-launch). Also, everyone's raving about capital ship battles, but they will NOT be the norm, average, or standard experience except for the absolute largest "24h orgs" that can afford one, and also crew it effectively. Economy changes in 4.0 will make them all-but prohibitively expensive with in-game money, and the crew requirement to run a full-size capital is in the 20s at bare minimum for sub-capitals, going up to as much as 50+ if you want redundancies on full-capitals. And this is WITHOUT support ships, which they say is an intended "soft reqirement" for capital vs capital gameplay. A fleet battle between 2 sides, both with capitals, and both with supporting ships, will need to be a server that can hold performance for no less than 200-250 players JUST for the battle participants... Server capacity (and stability to run smoothly) goes up when counting anyone just doing box missions in that server/shard or anything else in-game, completely unaware of "epic battle"

[@ephalanx1]

Im not sure why every time soloing multicrew ships is brought up - Some content creators and the PvP crew seem to think that doing so means solo'ers expect to be just as effective. No one really believes or is expecting that. These people are not dense. They most likely are not into PvPing and that sort of thing. They want to game PvE wise and engage in NPC conflicts. No one is expecting to own other players solo in their 3K Javelin. This narrative is over blown.

[@yulfine1688]

That's where you're actually wrong..

[@matteobarbarini3120]

Solo players are just crybabies

[@L0kias1]

@@matteobarbarini3120I think you have lost the plot mate and need to go touch grass. A lot of solo players are people with lives who are not looking to make this into a job or a hobby or join your little club. Some people just want to log on look at their ship , maybe do a mission or two and then go log off and play with their kids or take their wife out to dinner. I’m sorry that infuriates you personally but I am sure you will live. I could say the same thing about people who fish , and what a waste of time I think it is , but I am sure you would disagree.

[@danny1988221]

@@matteobarbarini3120 ohh look another no brain idiot. Why are solo players crybabies? They bought thousand-dollar ships, and they dont need to let a nobody like you into it? Most backers in the begging were solo and small crew people and they were looking foward to having bigger ships as their base. Only crybabies I hear are the new players crying that they should be let into the bigger ships that other people spent thousands on.

[@danny1988221]

@@yulfine1688 No hes actually right, that argument has been made over and over by single players. They bought the ships and CIG has to make it available for them to play it. there not into the heavy combat pvp but would like to have one as a personal base they can use on a daily. Kraken for example, and having npc or blades to crew turrents to help you protect it while you are away or flying somewhere else is all some solo players want

[@Tentacl]

Hundreds of people in a ship doing WHAT? Man, those people must live in another planet, this is NOT REAL LIFE. Nobody will spend their days washing the ground. Yeah, some players, maybe 10 if the ship is huge? MAYBE. And just MAYBE, remember even in games like older battlefield entries of Planetside 2 there are no vehicles that require more than 5 crew and there is a REASON for that, players just won't do it for a long time.

[@grimneeldrakia7173]

I completely agree. I bet that big orgs could only bring out a javelin and man it with a LOT of players for small periods of time like 2-4 hours. there is no way anyone can schedule around 100 or so people with no lives to play on a javelin to man it 24/7. most people can't even get 5-6 people together to play DND for 1-2 hours once a week.

[@Tentacl]

@@grimneeldrakia7173 And that assuming the technomagic "server meshing" even works well enough to allow 200+ players in the combat area, the ONLY game what I know is capable to do so is planetside and it has REALLY simple graphics, weapons and vehicles.

[@grimneeldrakia7173]

@@Tentacl BattleBit remastered allows 200+ people on each server. and that game doesn't simulate as much as planetside either

[@yetropolos]

Just have to look at how EVEonline handles its ping systems during nullsec attacks, more often then not its a slideshow of inane boredom with FCs designating targets and even then EVE has the advantage that traversing that universe is fairly simple. Atm it can take most players 20-30 minutes to gear up pick their ship and fly to do 1 task in 1 system. Star citizen is fun as hell but this desire to have ships entirely crewed by players is a folly and I don't even care or want npc crew, but of they don't get npc crew working the casuals that keep games afloat will leave.

[@medic4christ777]

And THIS is why NPC will be REQUIRED. You can get folks like the ones in this video to wake up and understand this, because they are living in fantasy land. Crewing ships for days works in real life because those people are slaves. They HAVE to be there. The military owns them. Nobody is going to volunteer to be crew for hours and hours in your ship. Never going to happen. People need to wake up. Requiring human crew will kill these ships.

[@ricky7326]

Capital is a status for a ship more than it is a class. Usually they are the ship that is in charge of a task force and usually the biggest or most important ship is the one that fills the role of Capital Ship.

[@Jsevo7]

Pirate swarm helps shows fleet battle from an NPC pov, game can handle that process but with players not sure how it will perform.

[@dragonsforge8278]

I just imagine driving the Knox in a space battle and hopefully riding up to a capital ship with some c4 charges to plant on the ship near PDC's or turrets I think it would be a fun game play that would be stealthy and a lot of fun

[@mastersunshyne]

Ship class nomenclature does exist and the definitions are semi flexible depending on what generation we are talking. CIG DO NOT USE existing IRL ship classification conventions. Their naming means nothing, they just using the term Capital to sell ships. The history of the term "Capital" regarding ships is interesting and I suggest taking a look at.

[@SergioLeRoux]

Capital ship terminology is funny. In real life, usually only the largest, leading ship is the "capital ship", even if all the other ships are also big, but in space games, Capital Ship is usually anything that requires a bridge with 3 or 4 people operating it and turrets, rather than a single seater fighter (more analog to an airplane than a naval ship) or even something resembling more a "truck" like for example a freighter.

[@jedi_drifter2988]

Just think we can start taking back territory from the Vanduul, as soon as Nyx is in ... As we can send patrols out to have PVE battles.

[@antilarge7860]

The fact that there is no AI blades when you fight against multi crew NPC ships is just insane at this point

[@mattgreen2082]

To argue the point of solo vs group gameplay. I think what neither of you mentioned should be brought up. That people spent lots of $ on the idea of being able to have these massive ships crewed by AI companions or crew mates. That was always a possibility until recently with the blades discussion. I think if CIG was upfront with the start of their intentions for a requirement of actual people in multicrew, people wouldn’t be so upset about not being able to command their Enterprise type ship in SC.

[@MrAbram94]

If the questions is can SC pull X off. The answer is always: No

[@themarveluniverseonline]

Capital ships will make more sense when base building becomes common place. A Capital ship is designed to project power, so when your base ((land or space) becomes pretty sizable, you can use a Capital ship to invade other org bases.

[@jrzgcwrocks]

It's THIS & literally so much more 😭 Folks don't understand these damn caps are USELESS without a logistics train from base to station to ship. It's impossible. Your javelin will run the hell out of fuel & you'll be a dead stick. A $3,000 dead stick. A 450M UEC dead stick.

[@jrzgcwrocks]

Also when I say fuel. I mean as vaguely as possible. Fuel for your QT drive, fuel for your hydrogen tank, fuel for your life support systems. FUEL. WILL. BE. DETRIMENTAL. TO. CAP. SHIPS. hahahahaha it's so much. I really do not think 75% of pledgers for Idris's & up understand the vassstttt gaming project they spent 1500-3500 dollars on.

[@Crycane]

Reclaimer is a Capital now, it got S4 Shields, Powerplant and Cooler. The Stretchgoal was 4,5million for a new class "Star Citizen will feature an additional playable ship class, the cruiser." which is still missing.

[@LeifPetersen1986]

21:00 Server meshing only improves server performence but not game performence, thats a different story. even if server meshing would be perfect they still need to optimize the game.

[@yulfine1688]

it does help with client performance as well but the total value if much less than optimization of the game etc, its an alpha optimizations won't start happening until closer to 1.0 launch in 4-6 years and as such at least 2 years away before we start to see much larger improvements.

[@Sidewinder1311]

You ask where this whole "everything soloable" thing comes from? It comes from the time where they talked about the verse being 90% NPCs and 10% Players. And that NPCs are going to be indistinguishable from real players. And that you can crew your ships with them. It's not coming out of thin air.

[@llillian4055]

Superb and nuanced discussion :)

[@TomHuitema-dp1zb]

You'll have to co-ordinate a bunch of fighters to get close to a capital ship to distract the PDCs when you're ready to fire torpedos

[@Marlax-101]

gunship missions, ground assaults and eliminations. transport escort, search and rescue. Thing is after carriers get in the game a lot of these ships can do medical rescue.

[@DaGhostToast]

I think their capital definition at the moment is leaning into ships with capital class components

[@TairnKA]

Listening to this I keep thinking how prior to battle planning (tactics, coordination and communication between ships), during battle coordination (between turrets), communication (between turrets and CIC), and especially situational awareness in a 3D environment (evasive maneuvers/bring weapons to bare, threat assessment), needs to be practiced. As a solo player I'm trying (between updates and wipes) to establish my character (Tarn Kallwyn) as a "Civilian, Independent Contractor" (key words; "Civilian" and "Independent") with a variety of ships for whatever job is out there for a "Spacer" (not a spacer)? I'm still waiting for the refitted 600i? ;-)

[@Hotfix.]

On the discussion what is a capital ship. CIG has not been consistent on the website it's called "The Polaris is a nimble corvette-class capital ship..." but ASOP calls it Capital. In my view Capital ship is any ship with Capital size components. A ship of certain value / number of crew would be protected by capital class components. Similarly, you can flip this the other way - as soon as you get a ship big enough to house capital class components, they will be big to require many more crew, have more features and be of higher value. In my view Polaris is not big enough to be deemed as capital - it can be effectively run by relatively small crew, and CIG did not deem is "valuable" or "important" enough to protect it with Capital class shields or Hull strengths. It can't carry many fighters nor vehicles and has limited features. Polaris should be in a corvette or maybe heavy corvette class (compared to a HH).

[@yulfine1688]

Um it has capital class shields.. and the shields were buffed so not sure what you're on about, its also huge around 170 meters or so, run with a small crew? AT minimum you need 4-6 players yes but you're not doing much with that, without a proper crew of at least 12 you're barley running the ship, and the only reason is because we don't have engineering etc in, once that happens running these ships with a handful of people isn't going to work very well, it is very much a capital class ship, it uses captial class components, and hull hp it has currently nearly 4 million or so ontop of the shields which were buffed to nearly 1 million hp, rebalancing will continue to change that the PDC's are definitely something else, it can carry a couple fighters or one larger fighter yes because its a patrol vessel, it runs in a fleet with other smaller ships and its the flagship of that patrol fleet, it doesn't need to carry 10 fighters, in fact that's not realistic not even the idris will carry that many most likely the javelin might and the bengal because its a carrier will along with things like the kraken.

[@Hotfix.]

@@yulfine1688 thanks i didn't realize there was a refactor on the components and other larger ships no longer have Capital Size components. interesting note which might resolve this topic more accurately. S4 are the old "capital" size components therefore the ship Size is deemed as Capital (based on my initial comment), however the ship Role would be - Corvette, Destroyer, Frigate etc. The role would be a more accurate way to define based on how many crew it's performance and role in the fleet. So you would be fielding several capital sized ships, but the composition of a fleet would be dictated by the various roles. eg. 5 corvettes for every 2 destroyers which would be for every 1 javelin. This is talking hypothetical future fleet battles mentioned in the CIG video. Thanks for you feedback and i stand corrected on the sizeing.

[@Tampainian]

Capital ships are usually the largest ships in a fleet and are the primary or leading ships.

[@Glathgrundel]

The problem with Capital Ships is that everyone thinks they have the talent to be the captain and if they own the ship, believe that they SHOULD be the captain. Everyone wants to be Picard and nobody wants to be Reg Barclay, but most people should know their limits and take the crew position. I would follow a GOOD Captain, with a GOOD helmsman and bridge crew. Unfortunately, you can spend your session grinding only to lose it all because the person in command is not the best person to do it.

[@Tentacl]

And that is why this while "crew for stupid manual labour" won't work. You can find a pilot and a gunner for your Mi-28 in every game, know why? Both positions rock. But you cannot find people to make coffe in your battleship, it's not hard to understand WHY.

[@danny1988221]

Yes anyone who spent thousands on a ship will always be captain. unless an org has them and gives the roles out with the ship.

[@sean2782]

I think you’re underestimating the amount of people who like to play “support” roles in games

[@Tentacl]

@@sean2782 And I think you are overestimating it, there is a reason you can't find groups in MMOs if you are trying to play DPS.

[@PEN0311]

Industrial Capital gameplay seems inverted from the Combat Capaitals in Star Citizen. The Industrial capital is basically independent and does not need fleet support.

[@jrzgcwrocks]

Fascinating connection. I like the idea of my reclaimer being self sustainable though. Besides fuel

[@bormsby]

I think it is unfortunate, that when first pledging just after the kickstarter, things have changed so much. Now with a careerer and a family can only spend 20 min to an hour "playing " games. So limited to what can be done, solo, or even trying to find/make a group, unlike people who have hours to play games all day

[@Zarviya]

the thing about large ships right NOW is fuck anybody can shout out on global chat and crew it but later on when they are 10 times more expensive and losing it is truly a loss you'll see them be guarded by all the bigger orgs

[@GGCLA207REP]

The more I think about it, the more I feel like this game will be impossible, like base building, just look at the base they showed at citizen Con with massive bases and tons of people flying around, that might work with 1 base but imagine 1000 bases like that and how impossible it would be for the server to load all that information and the same goes with massive fleet battles with capital ships and 1000 players, and not just 1 massive battle but multiple battles over the entire server(s) and then add everything else people are doing on top of that. I feel this game is a game of dreams and not within the reality of what is possible.

[@DennisSheltonjr]

Bear in mind the original concept for this game was not an MMO. Originally it was privately held servers they would have one master server that would be that whatever, cuz one of the backer levels included in an entire modding manual written by the devs. So capital ships were going to be different than they are now for sure and all large class ships from cutters frigates up

[@danny1988221]

when is a ship to big to not be able to crew enough people into it, this is what will give real power to orgs.

[@graveperil2169]

Capital ship normally applies to the ship your group can not afford to lose

[@Pontiuspilotus-jj4wq]

For most solo players the end game ship is a medium ship.

[@Liopleurodon]

25:30 Sorry, but that is just not how it works and how it will work out: 1st: you dont need MM to get smaller ships/fighters in the turrets crosshair. In fact without Master Modes a capital ship could "force" the fighters into that simply by moving and moving fast. Now WITH Master Modes this is simply not possible.... the fighters will swarm you, evade like crazy and never be able to be hit while dictating the entire fight. The capital can move, turn, roll as much as it wants, it will never outpace the fighters, no matter if we are talking about a Buccaneer or hevy Ares or Vanguard. I said it from day 1, Master Modes doomed capital ships and combat - also engineering won't change any of that (because thats just another layer). And forgive my directness on this, but any serious analysis of the ships movement and combat dynamic would make this obvious, so please dont fall for Rich's mind-castels - and thats also an impression I get more with every interview: Rich has no idea what he is talking about... all he does is "selling a vision" made up 5 mins before the show without any second thought on how it actually plays.2nd: and thats following the topic from 43:00 This also wont work... it simply leads to another situation of capitals being useless if it still NEEDS the fighters... just bring only fighters then. Or the capital ships gets so powerfull that fighters dont do much... but then, what are we talking about? The entire concept doesnt make sense anymore.

[@Cam_Wight]

The one thing that bugs me about SC is the sheer lack of content for literally anything other than a few fps missions and a few ship ones. The game needs gameplay above all else

[@gearsamp92]

The "no NPC crew for 1.0" was the biggest deal breaker a huge number of people. My knee jerk reaction was sort of "fuck this project" for the first few days after that announcement even though I've been a consistent supporter since 2014. I do think this will have a pretty big negative impact on their sales of multi crew sized ships and over all this will have them making less money. It didn't help that my takeaway from Citizencon was pretty negative because with the all the design changes and showcase of their vision of 1.0, they simply don't have the vision people bought into the project for. The vision is Eve 2.0 or just any survival game like Conan Exiles or ARK scaled way up. You'll pick a shard to join. That shard might be totally owned by 1 org and that 1 org will keep new players out or demand they join and pay into the org or be killed constantly on sight. Rense repeat until you find a shard where you aren't hunted down by the 1 big org and instead shot on sight from the 50 pirate orgs. Without the NPC crews the solo small groups aren't going to stay playing the game or are significantly less likely. Even huge orgs aren't going to be operating at capacity for more than big events and special occasions because no one wants to permanently be beholden to someone else in a video game. People want to live their space fantasy, not someone else's. I'm still excited for what Star Citizen can become. But my excitement hangs on the "post 1.0" experience I actually want to have. And just hoping the AI counteraction can be big enough and severe enough to keep a single Org from owning entire shards.

[@DennisSheltonjr]

Typically by a definition the most valuable ship in a fleet is the capital ship. Be that a battleship or a carrier. Cruisers destroyers frigates are not capital ships unless for some strange reason one of them is the largest and most important ship in the fleet. :-)

[@FelicAstraal]

You maybe thinking Flagship instead of Capital Ship.

[@DennisSheltonjr]

@@FelicAstraal no, Flagship by definition is is not the same as a cap. By oxford def a capital ship is A term used in navies to denote the most important type of warship in the national fleet. A flagship is a vessel used by the commanding officer of a group of naval ship, or the lead ship in a group, may or may not be a Capital ship. =]

[@Venhili]

Croncy! Standard or Commander?? If commander, what is your favorite commander?

[@dukeofhazard420]

The real world naval definition is along the lines of “a leading or primary ship within a fleet”. At least the United States Navy

[@dukeofhazard420]

Obviously star citizen is a bit more lenient with the label I just wanted to add a real world use of the term

[@pxkqd]

Should there be missions for Capital ships? Or just player driven stuff to deal with resources and base-building?

[@kevinmoore9196]

yes there absolutely should be missions that are based on having players with capital ships..so i would like to see regular missions like destroy a rogue polaris in game not just as special events

[@chrisnotw19]

975 for the Polaris is insane. Cig out here being criminals.

[@TheNikosawa]

they said that the polaris is a similar experience like the hammerhead but with bigger guns. the truth is tho the hammerhead has MORE turret dps than a polaris. remember when they said: "we are looking at upgunning the polaris so its not just a torpedo boat, it can hold its own against other capital ships WITH ITS TURRETS!!" I do because i own one and they lied. not only less turret dps than a hammerhead, we can also run out of ammo because we can not restock the bespoke turret of the polaris from the inside. so two big L's for polaris owners.

[@latjolajban81]

I wonder how we are supposed to restock the turrets outside of hangars.

[@PEN0311]

The Kraken is the best industrial capital ship.

[@edj7111]

Corvette Frigate Destroyer Cruiser Battleship

[@danny1988221]

forgot carrier

[@korbentherhino]

I been telling people soloing on a capital ship will not be an attractive adventure for most even with an npc crew

[@gamingduology4757]

I’m happy with people have content for only orgs . But I would really hate to see rewards or items (gear ) that can not be obtained . Best in slot should not be only for orgs .

[@nemesisfaust]

oh tomato... what makes a capital ship a capital ship? first of all any ship that has a capital class components is a capital ship. doesnt matter if it is a medium size ship such as the tarapin heavy armor, 4size small shields and a capital deep range scanner and large computer. so far by its original concept, it is a capital ship. so a capital ship does not mean the ship is XL aka capital ship size. the 2nd defining the naming of a ship, is a ship with unique rolls and asset capabilities. aka the msr, the 600i those are also capital ships tho they are also medium and large vessels, and not capital aka XL ship size. so the first misconception of capital ships is think a capital ship is always capital ship size. so croncy is wrong is saying corvette class really doesnt mean anything. it actually means a lot. because 2 other capital ships are the starferrer gemini with its XL armor and its XL refinery and XL refueling in concept, and why this ship can barely lift off the ground taking 32min to get off arc corp, 42min to get off hurston, 38 min to get off microtech and it takes over 2 hours to get out of crusader gas giant gravity. and the perseus which is also XL armor, and quad S7 bispoke aka 4s8 ballistic cannon guns. but a corvette class capital size ship, is aka a fast racer with low fuel efficiency type of capital ship. where lift off from atmospher is close to the same as other ships. so a perseus large ship tho having capital class armor and weapons as a blockade runner wouldnt experience the sheer weight of the ship like most other capital aka XL mass ships as the starferrer gemini does, or worse... because it is large size with capital components of armor and weapons as a corvette. so even tho it has super heavy armor and really big guns, as a large corevette it should not experience the atmo even remotely close to that of the starferrer gemini or that of other heavy XL capital ships. where the polaris also being a capital ships due to size with less armor then perseus is also a capital ship but again a corvette so those ships should fly and react much like a hammerhead with capital armor and mass weight but a large corvette. that is what "capital ship" and what "corvette" is! for instance the kracken is also a light carrier with building and cargo, it is not a corvett class, which means she is a giant paperweight. same with pioneer, same with idirus as medium carrier, same with bangal as large carrier, but the javalin with 4s6 and 12s3 guns is also a corvette class, which means the polaris, javalin ect as corvette class xl ships can enter atmo and still fly... those other ships down the line will need tug boats to get out of atmo, or a dry dock launcher down the line for a lift off accelerator. so XL corvette class means tugboat and lift off accelerators are not necessary! especially after malstrum destruction with armor2.0/component2.0 w crafting systems, in atmo updates of aerodynamics 3.7. but there are lots of ships that are titled "capital" ships already in the verse, which are not xl aka "capital ship" in size another thing which is annoying is cig holding ships like the E1 spirit "because of game loop not being present" when the M2, cutlass steel, picies, valkery, phenix emmeralds ect are already in game. saying "passenger game play loops arnt in the game yet". like the fury xd, the zuse mk2 xr, ect "stealth game play isnt in the game yet" despite saber, saber raven, f7c ghost, avenger stalker, rasor xd are already in the game. same as such for bounty when avenger titan, taylon strike, cutlass blue are in the game, why no zuse mk2 mr? "bounty is not in the game yet". same bullshit with smuglging, with the tarus and msr having smuggling lockers... same bs with scanning, same bs with hacking... literally tons of ships that are claims to be done, but "oh those game play loops are not in the game yet" despite plenty of other ships for those tasks are already in game. that is the most annoying thing in star citizen. the lies.

[@PEN0311]

Capital ships do not exist without a fleet to support them. A Capital ships role is to command the fleet and is often the ship gosling the Fleet Commander. The term Capital literally means Head.

[@fffx2]

Now have Mike on and rebuild the bridge

[@johnfranklin2547]

CIG please set up instance missions, siege of orison Groups of 12 or more join together and complete each level to open next level. EZ done everyone wins.

[@TKanal3]

Croncy the aussie goat

[@sanctred]

The current logout mechanics are not compatible with large multi-crew game play.

[@Zethez]

MMO doesn't mean everyone is on a multi-crew ship. If CIG doesn't make meaningful content for individual game play, the game will become a niche game. I doubt individuals expect to be able to solo a Polaris.

[@Auldus]

I love the news. But as An 890 owner i hate that it is roped into the weird state when in actuality. It's just as much a capital ship as any other. The design philosophy for the 890 is that is is bleeding edge technology. It SHOULD have Best in class shields and components: best in class handling and come factory with blades installed. But have half the armor of military vessels. And smaller weapon hardpoints. I just wish they mentioned the niche the 890 has and give it some real use case other than being pirate fodder. Or idris food. I'm not asking for it to be able to go broadside with an Idris. However if i have 6 friends on board and is loaded with cargo, loot, and vehicles it should not go down in a single pass from another cap ship or even a few larger ships. If the Idris has a size 10 railgun, and the polaris has torps, the 890 should atleast be Automated with blades

[@whatever-w5n]

The 890 is a large, luxury space yacht. Not a warship, not cutting edge technology. It's a space limo... The hot tub and bar should have clued you in. It's a poncy party boat.

[@Auldus]

@whatever-w5n that doesn't mean it should be a pinata for any S4 ship and above. In a universe where vanduul attack indiscriminately and pirates and militias are everywhere it would make sense that Origin would spare no expense in defense. Also from a gameplay perspective. If the 890 was nothing but a frivolous Luxury item then why does the 600i have some of the highest alpha damage and hull armor in it's class? and an on board armory, tank garage, and a medbay. Origin isn't just a luxury company. They make some of the most rugged ships with graphene coated glax plated armor. They ARE cutting edge.

[@whatever-w5n]

@@Auldus expecting anything much in the way of any true balance is premature at this stage, far too many systems are yet to be in the game. Origin ships are no more cutting edge than any other manufacturer. The 890 is not a capital ship. The 600 has rarely been that great at combat (at least pvp) and I agree, like many other ships of its size and similar, some of the firepower should be taken out of the pilots hands and instead put into control of the turret gunners. Graphene coated glax plated armour?... "brawndo contains electrolytes" And Origin is (if you could only pick one word to describe) a luxury manufacturer. Luxury by it's very nature forgoes practicality and performance. Do I think it should be hard to take down? Absolutely. Not by an Idris however, that thing is military ship with a complement of fighters (a carrier), and 30% one big gun that is designed to be a serious threat to capital ships that make the 890 look like a minnow. Should a couple of light fighters represent a serious threat to it? No. 4 light fighters, a couple of heavy ones and an eclipse? It should be in serious trouble.

[@Auldus]

@whatever-w5n once again, you're missing the point in gameplay balance. Trying to frame Origin in a role that CIG didn't design it for. You can't take functionality that The 600i clearly has because you think it's just a luxury vessel. Origin is as much functionality as possible while maintaining crew comfort. That is the entire focus of origin. Nowhere does it say that Origin is meant to be overpowered by any other manufacturer. In fact that applies to all manufacturers. They are just different styles. I agree however. The 890 doesn't need a size 10 capital weapon. I understand it isn't a military vessel. But having every turret automated to ensure a 61 million dollar vessel returns home is in the flavor of origin. And from a gameplay perspective. Getting oneshot by an idris in another capital ship that I used the same effort loading, outfitting, and manning is bad game design by your logic, just because "it has a hot tub" it also has 8 PDCs and 8 manned turrets and 2 size 4 shields.

[@whatever-w5n]

@@Auldus no, no I'm not. The 890 is not and never was a capital ship. It's a fair way off that. Should it be one shot by the main gun of an Idris? Of that I am not sure. I do know that should be left with critical shields and a few bits going "fizz bang" internally if it does. It's you who is missing the point, many ships need a balance pass. Something that is impossible (or at the very least a pointless waste of time at the moment) until various other systems have been implemented (vulcan, engineering gameplay etc). Should the 890 be good at combat? No, not for it's size and cost as that is not and never was its design focus, it's design focus is being a luxury space yacht. Should it be good defensively and at running away? Absolutely, against relevant and appropriate threats. That doesn't include the Idris, a military carrier with a compliment of fighters (which could include quantum dampeners) and 30% of its mass and design made up of the games currently largest gun that is designed to be be a serious threat to ships larger than itself.

[@citizen_or_civilian]

What's the name of the song at the end of your videos?

[@PingWhisper]

Star Citizen is more what iT 'could be' and a tech demo along the way. Its really not compared to a game such as Elite or EVE.

[@Sarndel327]

You mean the RSI Pegasus @ 10:00?

[@valorunkommon799]

"It's multi crew...tough" My guy, what an incredibly short sighted take from someone who recently joined the project. If you only make a game appeal to people that want multi-player gameplay, you lose out on cash flow from people that want to play solo content. Since this game isn't the march of dimes, the goal is in fact to make money

[@mj_darkstar]

The distinction between a Capital Ship and a Corvette primarily lies in their size, role, and operational capabilities. Here’s a breakdown: Capital Ship Definition: A large, powerful vessel that serves as the backbone of a fleet, often commanding smaller ships. Roles: Command and control of fleet operations. Long-range firepower. Carrier duties (e.g., deploying fighters, bombers). Heavy defense and resilience in battles. Strategic and logistical support (e.g., repair facilities, supply storage). Examples: Battleships Aircraft carriers Dreadnoughts Heavy cruisers Size and Armament: Massive size (hundreds to thousands of meters in length). Equipped with heavy weapons (e.g., large turrets, missile batteries). Advanced shields and armor. Crew: Requires large crews, often numbering in the thousands. Cost and Resources: Expensive to build and maintain. Also most Capital ships serve as flagships or command ships in a fleet. They act as the backbone of military operations. Corvette Definition: A small, fast, and maneuverable ship designed for specific tasks, typically operating independently or as part of smaller groups. Roles: Patrol and escort. Reconnaissance and scouting. Anti-piracy and customs enforcement. Support roles in fleet actions (e.g., screening larger ships, anti-fighter defense). Examples: Small patrol ships Escort vessels Size and Armament: Much smaller than capital ships (typically 50-200 meters in length). Light to moderate weaponry (e.g., point-defense systems, smaller turrets). Less durable armor and shields compared to capital ships. Crew: Smaller crews, often under 100 personnel. Cost and Resources: Relatively inexpensive and easier to produce.

[@TypicalDutchSaysHi]

Capital gameplay means you have enough capital to spend on the pledge store 😂

[@drivennale8551]

As someone who likes to solo woth the reclaimer, i am under no delusions that, that will last. Nor will i be nearly as efficient as player crewed reclaimer when ai blades come out. I just don't trust any of you. Until the game moves away from shoot 1st, with laughable reprocussions for it. Going to stay solo till friends join.

[@b5fan504]

The term "capital ship" is not a term peculiar to Star Citizen. It's an IRL term and, afaik, it goes back centuries. A Corvette is/was a "sixth rate" capital ship. Frigates are 5th. Light Frigates and Corvettes are 6th. It's painful to watch Croncy fumbling to define the already defined. So, no, the Reclaimer isn't a capital ship. Big? Sure. It sure is. As big as a capital ship? Maybe. That's only coincidence and not very interesting.

[@JizzyNinja]

36:28 booooooooooo

[@TalosEscanor]

Croncy seems clueless about solo players. Solo players and small teams will make up 70% of the player base. It's an MMO for solo and small tribes, especially since the scope of the game is so massive!"

[@medic4christ777]

He sounds clueless about a lot. These people just make up their own garbage. For example: CIG has made clear what ships are capital and which aren’t. According to CIG, corvettes are the smallest capital ship. Followed by frigates, and then destroyers. This is clearly lined out by CIG. How do they have content channels and not know this? They just make shit up.

[@theg0z0n]

IMO most streamers are like this. They never spend time in a discord with five regulars. They never want to log in months from an event and can't get a single person to hop in game with them. Hell, Inforunners regularly recommend buying the largest ship of a particular profession that you can afford, and then using that to earn all the smaller ships... By myself? Start off in a reclaimer alone to earn myself a vulture? With what rep? With what money to even run a huge ship? Just a perspective they lack.

[@HighmageDerin]

That's one of the things that Burns me about all these streamers they Brant and rave and scream aboutsolo players existing in an MMO. Refusing to believe that they are the only ones that can get away with not having a job to afford to be able to play said MMO. A job which by its very description says that you're away from your computer for anywhere from 8 to 12 and in some people's cases 16 hours a day. And that's just the job that doesn't include coming home to cook clean shower sleep and Spend time with family if you have one. Take World of Warcraft for instance for all the crying these people do about it being such an ease of access game that caters to solo players. they fail to see the reason why it has stayed alive for so long when all its competition aside from a few very specific titles are long gone!

[@superpinoi]

all three of you clearly misunderstand literally everything they were saying. there will ALWAYS be aspects of games that you will not experience unless you dedicate time. thats how games are, especially online games. We also arent even close to a game yet so your takes that "streamers" dont understand is misguided. World of Warcraft is a COMPLETE game with years of time of adding and modifying the game. I believe whenever SC becomes a game there will be enough features and things happening that can enable someone to experience things with others or alone. but its simply logic that small groups will succeed over solo people. and people who have real life things as we all do, will play in their slot and thats it. if that still irritates you no man sky is still available lol.

[@0Metatron]

“I the solo player do self declare myself as the most important of your players because of our perceived self importance. You will bow down to us and completely change how the game is designed” “I’m not arrogant at all “

[@antoniovinciguerra8982]

Croncy!!! Yaaay

[@apocwow1599]

You can do dungeons solo now wow. Folllower dungeons

[@stevenmartin5110]

Soloing a ship does not mean you’re a solo player? I wish people would stop trying to put people into a box. Two friends each want to fly a Scorpius with a blade or npc gunner in the back? Are they solo. Four friends want to operate an Idirs and 3 fighters with the help of blades and npcs are they solo. I don’t know how many times CIG need to tell us that NPCs and Blades will be a thing and all ships will be able to be operated that way even if it is less efficient or more costly but still completely viable. To bad Croncy 😊

[@Justipet]

LOL streamers with 99999 people waiting to crew their ships talking how amazing the gameplay is. What about the rest of us who bought polaris 6 years ago, being promised an AI multicrew and getting bait and switched by CIG. Funny though

[@GGCLA207REP]

The bigger the capital ship the more usless it will become without npc crew

[@Accuracy158]

I don't care about doing fleet battles most people don't care about doing fleet battles. Most people are just going to play alone and MMOs with open multiplayer PvP simply die without structure and a lot of restrictions. 😏 ...I'm saying this to be contrary but at the end of the day I do think these people are largely correct (and not just in a "everyone's opinion is correct or justified" liberal BS type of way).

[@brainiac10]

EW, I hope they DO NOT create solo NPC spawnable ship missions. Its supposed to be a pure MMO, yes there should be a mission board, but it should be because a player has posted it for you to accept.

[@michaeltarver8235]

890J is a capital ship

[@KA317S]

Kinda obvious.

[@orangeblack1285]

I still don't know how they plan to make multicrew gameplay actually fun for ships with a lot of stations. "Solving a puzzle" in capital gameplay sounds nice at first, but when you have 20 gunners, none of them is doing that. When you have large crews, the stations become insignificant and will be boring to operate on the long run. So how many significant stations will there actually be on a capital ship? I would assume that the number levels quite fast and you probably only have a hand full of people manning the biggest turrets or overseeing just a single station for engineering and gun batteries while the guns itself would be controlled by npcs. I mean we have ships with 14, 28 or up to 65 "crew" capacity. I can only see maybe 5 or 6 stations being actually fun on the long run. No matter the size of the ship.

[@Yukanag]

I feel like the engineering system is going to break the game and make it unfun.

[@caintindal1671]

Your going to need AI crew to crew capital ships that is onething will be a must.

[@L0kias1]

Yup

[@matteobarbarini3120]

Thx god we do not have this shit 💩 of ai crew yet

[@medic4christ777]

Still waiting for people to wake up and realize this fact.

[@CitizenScott]

36:26 Know what else is a "Multiplayer" game? Fortnite. So is every other last-man-standing, free-for-all, battle royale ever made. Does that mean forced co-operation? No. "Multiplayer" doesn't mean what you think it means. And most major MMOs are played by mostly solos, so "iTs aN mMo" also just does not hold any weight. Make better arguments. The reason many of us expect the game to allow for Single Player Multicrew is because CIG have explicitly told us it would be possible using AI/NPCs for well over a decade, including Rich Tyrer recently. No offence, but you sound pretty silly making these kinds of baseless, blanket statements. It continues to blow my mind that so many Socially-Oriented players can be so objectively obtuse for the sake of feeling somehow superior or something. So weird, man.

[@legion6712]

Croncy always seems so clueless when it comes to physicalized damage/armor/maelstrom. Tomato tried to engage him and instead of mining the metric shittonne of new gameay he started talking about multicrew mining, how can someone be so clueless to such an important and massive change to the game?

[@justalex4214]

I agree with the doubts about cap ship combat, sounds way too cinematic. In the end gamers are going to be gamers which means they absolutely will not do what CIG imagines, but what will yield the best results. If ramming 10 auroras into the enemy cap ship is faster than shutting down their defenses one by one, then people will do that. That's just the reality of gaming. Also I'm not sure this layered "puzzle" type of gameplay is very fun. Having 2 or more cap ships duking it out with each other sounds way more cinematic and fun than doing all those steps to take down a cap ship. To put it in the words of ken watanabe: "let them fight!"

[@burgerpops7182]

half of the talk was complain about bug