Defending a Trademark? Explain the Jackson King V

[@PaulCooksStuff]

The guy to talk to is Ron Bienstock. He was the lawyer in almost all the seminal guitar trademark cases. He does talks at NAMM etc, plays guitar himself and loves debunking internet myths. He's been on a few KZbin channels.

[@blackout8845]

Japanese court decided that the japanese people are intelligent enough to realize that a guitar that has the name "Edwards" or "ESP" on the headstock is from another brand then a guitar that says "Gibson" on the headstock. The shapes are deemed generic by the 70s (during which time Gibson started lawsuits outside of the US) and thats why ESP, Tokai etc. can make guitars in the exact shape and configuration like Gibson today. Personally I belive, that gibsons "authenticity" claim didn't hold up to guitars that actually stay in tune.

[@u4yk]

I'm going to start a guitar line and I'm going to call my first guitar the November V. It's not a "vee," it's the Roman numeral 5. Let's see how Gibson handles that.

[@gen-x-calibur]

...they'll make you spend $2k on a lawyer, that's how

[@rovertkralc1]

Remember, remember, the V of November.

[@rredzone]

The flying 5 would be sick

[@rredzone]

@@gen-x-calibur2k not so bad

[@robronin1969]

That's good thinking🤘

[@MatthewBaron]

Easy explanation: Jackson is owned by Fender. Gibson won't sue Fender because Fender can fight back. Gibson only punches down. Love, Blues Lawyer Confessional

[@gregmeir]

Truth on that small company won't be able to afford great lawyers fender on the other hand can

[@Fl4ppers]

Fender also still has money because they make better guitars. Way, way better.

[@MatthewBaron]

@@Fl4ppers they, like Gibson, are on my "don't buy new" list because of shoddy workmanship. A used, somewhat worn guitar is a guitar that has been played and is, therefore, playable.

[@MercutioUK2006]

Came here to say that and yes, 100% accurate.

[@michaelhodilofficial]

Here's the thing: Jackson created the King V before they were bought out by Fender so the owned by Fender argument is not correct in that case but at the same time, being owned by Fender definitely helps Jackson today.

[@Arthemesia]

Well whats BS is Gibson did NOT defend their designs, and lost their copyright. Some crooked judge decided to overturn that, which is absolutely insane, legally they missed the deadline yet because they are filthy rich, the law did not apply to Gibson, but it does apply to everyone else

[@ScreaminT81]

And said Judge should be removed from the bench

[@Arthemesia]

@@ScreaminT81 Agreed

[@oatmeal710]

@@ScreaminT81 that would require legislators with their constituents best interests in mind, such a politician hasn't existed in america for hundreds of years

[@ScreaminT81]

@ yeah you’re right. Been over dramatic on my response. So thank you on that. 😊 Not being able to see how stupid Gibson is, regarding their ability to maintain their trademarks, is just dumb.

[@SjPedro]

Gibson won't sue Thomann because it would be one less platform for Gibson to sell their overpriced factory assembled "vintage" guitars

[@MercutioUK2006]

As true as Gibson only punching down. Good shout :)

[@shayneoneill1506]

Bingo. That and the European Union likes to do terrifying things to american companies looking to squash competition

[@wesleyzimmerman94]

Thomann would literally sue them bankrupt

[@generalgrafx]

@@wesleyzimmerman94 Thomann would rather buy Gibson.

[@PaulCooksStuff]

Thomann also change their clone shapes just enough to be outside of Gibsons trademarks. Eg, the HB LP has a continuous curve between the fronts horns. Across a dimly lit room, it's an LP silhouette. In a brightly lit courtroom it's different enough.

[@br00talbr00skeez]

LEGAL EAGLE & SMG COLLAB LETS GOOOOO!!

[@riccardocuoghi2071]

Actually Ola said Gibson try to sue Solar. I don’t know for which model

[@masonkertson9774]

probably for the type E and or type v

[@riccardocuoghi2071]

@ i also thinking the single cut because they didn’t do a lot of new models.

[@myopicautisticmetal9035]

if memory serves it was the les paul looking single cut model that they took issue with.

[@riccardocuoghi2071]

@ also think the honeyburst because they didn’t do a lot

[@jordanquigley6794]

Dude, your commercials are top tier 🤣 looking forward to trying our some of these programs at home in the next few months

[@damienalvarez2957]

If you can get an LEF on the channel, be prepared to receive one of the most beautiful guitars you’ve ever seen. Even the scarf joints look awesome!

[@brianrobichaud4798]

Id love to see a high vs low home studio build. Low budget vs nearly unlimited and show where spending money is a necessity and where you can skimp. Like the donut media series

[@alankelly1001]

The real problem I see (and admittedly I'm not a lawyer) is that Gibson originally filed the V as a patent in the late 1950s, and you can't trademark a patent feature. EDIT: Looking at the reproductions on line, it's patent no. 181,867, and specifically states the claim is "the ornamental design for a stringed musical instrument, as shown and described". A patent usually expires after 20 years, after which the patent feature becomes open for use by everyone. Checked the Patent Public Search, Basic.... and got US-D181867-S , which has the OCR scan of the original patent issued January 7, 1958 for the "ornamental design". It also says "Term of Patent, 17 years." Could some IP care to chime in?

[@ericp7187]

Gibson is using trade dress law (a species of trademark law) to protect the Flying V design, not its expired design patent. Trademark and patent law are two distinct areas of IP law, although there is some subject matter overlap. As you note, Gibson's patent was for the ornamental design of the flying V, and design patents receive a shorter term of protection than utility patents. Gibson can no longer enforce its design patent, but it can use trade dress law to attempt to enforce the Flying V shape on the theory that consumers will confuse competitors' guitars with Gibson guitars. Gibson has a current US trademark registration for the Flying V design (with rounded corners), but as some other commentators have noted, Gibson's had trouble enforcing their various guitar design trade dress in court. In a famous case against PRS in 2005, Gibson couldn't successfully argue a theory about how consumers would confuse PRS's single-cutaway shapes with Gibson Les Pauls, even though the two appear very similar.

[@myopicautisticmetal9035]

I was waiting for this, I look away for 5 minutes and it drops behind my back.

[@wojtala7112]

Thank you Glenn for testing, advice and every piece of technology you have rewiewed.

[@StevenEveral]

If Gibson really cared about Dean's version of the Flying V and Explorer, they would have challenged Dean way back in 1979 instead of 2019. Gibson also wouldn't have released fancier versions of their V and Explorer to compete with Dean and Hamer back in the early 1980s.

[@garethbarlow5278]

Re: a collaboration with Legal Eagle, could you consider including KDH as the guitar business is the bread and butter for his channel and he has already done some dives into this subject. I think a three-way conversation would be brilliant for the viewers.

[@viciousguitars7966]

❤

[@deathpod1975]

A guy recorded himself taking a shit. He uploaded the soundtrack to youtube. Trapt sued. And won.

[@fragtagninja1633]

Citation?

[@deathpod1975]

@@fragtagninja1633 Really??????

[@jonathanrobert3872]

😂😂😂

[@andresilvasophisma]

I would just rebrand it to Flying Lawsuit, or the Cease and Desist.

[@patrickb2422]

I’ve actually played a couple LEF guitars and the build quality is fantastic. Neither were Gibson style but he does make the most beautiful explorer style guitars I’ve ever seen

[@johnwstruhar]

One thing that is missing in your point about Jackson's King V and Randy Rhoads, ESP Hammett V and some others is that the body is different than the Flying V. These alterations are just enough to keep Gibson from sueing. Take David Bowie and Queen vs Vanilla Ice. VI took ONE note out and won the copyright case. That adds to the money and power aspect. But you are right about the little shop vs corporate giants. The "cease and desist" is primarily a scare tactic. If the little shop had the money to take it to court and Gibson knew they could, they wouldnt have sent it.

[@emartinezr]

Ohhhh don't let facts get in the way of clicks and KZbin views.... 😂😂

[@Sewersyrup]

The C&D letters definitely work. One luthier I know of, got one, from Gibson in USA, written in english, we're in Brazil, we speak portuguese. I won't even delve in the legality of this threat. But it scared him enough so he doesn't do single cuts anymore and removed all mentions of LPs from his medias. Gibson is the school bully.

[@viciousguitars7966]

@@SewersyrupI am the living proof it works. And I know many more. But hey, at least I’ve got STEALTH I’m proud of.

[@soundman1402]

I said it before, and I'll say it again: That Vicious Stealth is absolutely drop-dead gorgeous! Goran, amazing work, sir!

[@viciousguitars7966]

Thank you very much! I try!

[@arjanhurkmans9190]

Gibson did filed a lawsuit against Jackson Guitars, as part of a broader legal effort by Gibson to protect its trademarks and designs. This occurred in the context of Gibson taking legal action against several guitar manufacturers for alleged infringement of their iconic body shapes, such as the Les Paul, SG, Flying V, and Explorer.

[@littlecrimsonwyvern8083]

Glenn and Legal Eagle is a dream collaboration I never knew I wanted. Please do this just for the fact that it can exist on the internet!

[@chrispile3878]

I haven't gotten a cease and desist from Gibson, but back in the 80's Modulus Graphite sent me one when I considered making graphite necks for guitars and basses.

[@RobertPalomoMusic]

Do a show with KZbinr "Top Music Attorney" - her whole channel is music copyright & trademark stuff.

[@Zundfolge]

I bet the other companies making Vs have license agreements with Gibson. The bigger companies have legal departments that likely made peace with Gibson after all the suits in the 70s. For many years I was creative director for a map publishing company, sadly we had to go after many small businesses that would just copy our maps and put them in their ads and flyers and whatnot. Generally a C&D followed by instructions on how to license our map data was all it took (so no actual going to court) but if we didn't go after them if one of our competitors stole our data we couldn't do squat. To be fair, Gibson could just make licensing agreements cheap and easy for small builders and they'd look like heroes instead of jerks (and still protect their IP).

[@vorpalblades]

You can't license IP which you don't own. Gibson does not hold a trademark for body shapes.

[@ericp7187]

@@vorpalblades It actually does. Gibson has a US registration for a Flying V shape. (I don't know about Canada.)

[@vorpalblades]

@ericp7187 That verdict was overturned in July, Gibson holds no trademarks on V, Explorer or SG shapes. It has been remanded to retrial next year.

[@ThisOldGuitar]

tfw they send you a C&D, and you send them a certified letter containing a photocopy of your butt... Gibson can't even make a quality product so they practice lawfare...

[@MrHrannsi]

This must be the best looking middle finger with six strings I ever seen in my damn life.

[@viciousguitars7966]

Proud

[@greevar]

The whole reason Gibson is going after a small builder is not only because they can't afford to fight it in court, but because it would be an easy win for Gibson that they could use as precedent for future lawsuits. If the builder caves to the C&D, Gibson wins. If they go to court and fight it, Gibson gets their legal precedent. Builders getting C&D from Gibson should band together and lodge a class action.

[@module79l28]

In this case it's just scare tactics because the US courts have no jurisdiction over canadian individuals or canadian companies located in Canada, so no lawsuit would be accepted by a US court or even by a canadian court. Gibson can only go after US-based builders.

[@emeraldeyes929]

Hey thanks for answering my question! I didn't know Thomann owned them and was so powerful. Cool that they won't be pushed around.

[@stephenknapp91]

I have an early LEF guitar and it's hands down my favorite guitar to play. My roommate/bandmate has an Explorer style from him which also plays amazingly. Both have zebrawood tops from the same piece of wood, so it's cool having sibling guitars in the same band

[@BlackReaperMetal]

Fuck yeah another LEF bro!

[@OliverAmberg]

Thank you Glenn to recommend Gibson guitars so often . I just purchased my fourth Gibson because of you. You mention Gibson so much, it's all over your channel. Gibson. Gibson. It's in the titles, on the thumbnails. So much advertisment for Gibson. 😉

[@AnthonyVolpe]

13:13 Speaking of cool pieces of tech, I decided to get the new M4 Pro Mac Mini. The specs sound fantastic, especially for video and audio editing. Even the $599 base model sounds like a beast. Unfortunately, for schmucks like me with a home studio, there may be a possible dealbreaker with the M4 Pro, and that is fan noise, which is the last thing you want your mics to pick up. This only seems to be a problem when doing mix downs and rendering, and there is a low power setting as well, so that could help. I realize your gear reviews mainly center on musical instruments and recording equipment, but I’d still be curious to have you do a review on one of the new Mac Minis to see what happens when a pro puts it through its paces. As always, keep up the good work.

[@martinbaker1609]

Gibson introduced the Flying V and Explorer in 1958. Dean Guitars started making their V and Z models in 1977, however Gibson never filed a lawsuit against Dean until 2019, this was 61 years after the V and Explorer’s introduction. The thought that it’s all about protecting their IP seems a bit weak when for 42 years of production they never went after Dean Guitars. One would think if it truly about protecting the IP they would have went after Dean in 1977, just my two cents.

[@trollmunchkinzm4364]

The companies you listed as examples all use v shapes that are changed enough so Gibson wouldn’t come after them. Use dean as an example they didn’t change the shapes and Gibson came after them. That’s why Jackson, shecter, esp, solar, ect can still produce those Vs because they’re altered versions different enough from Gibson’s body shapes.

[@TjByers369]

Yes, please help out the smaller builders get their stories out!

[@keithmonkman4007]

My next guitar is going to be an LEF Custom Explorer shape. Next level craftsmanship. What you get for the price is insane compared to a gIBsoN. Absolutely destroys anything gIBsoN makes. Please support these smaller craftsman.

[@Rebar77_real]

Maybe Thomann needs to start a Boutique Suite for custom builders? Like an Amazon Front, type thing. Base it on a percentage cut and let builders name their own prices, the cream will rise to the top fast.

[@serjfomichev]

Speaking of patent law: I used to work in Rospatent for 6 years - it's a Russian state Agency same to USPTO in the USA and CIPO in Canada. And every time car manufacturers updated their model line they filed a whole ton of patent applications for EVERY SINGLE DETAIL - from engines and onboard computers to rubber carpets and handles. And every single time patent search system won't able to find OBVIOUS similarities, though functionally those details not only were identical to theirs predecessors, but also identical to their competitors. It all was only for slight wording nuances in technical descriptions in the invention formula, that allowed the application successfully bypass all the checks for invention level, novelty and industrial applicability.

[@ThoraxeTheImpaler34]

I love the dedication to spectredigital segment. B-A-Utiful

[@riangarianga]

I'm glad you showed a comment talking about industrial property (IP), but it certainly wasn't the only one, as you stated. There were many explaining how it works, including mine. I explicitly mentioned first IP depends on the territory where you operate, second you can reach exploitation agreements with any corporation (regardless of size) holding IP where interests might be perceived to be affected. The thing is you'll hardly learn about that, because for once they don't go irate on KZbin talking about it, they just work out deals. It's industrial property, not celebrity drama. No, they don't go to court by default, that's costly and lengthy for everyone. A cease and desist letter doesn't mean you'll automatically end up in court, you can definitely communicate and ask for details.

[@bartonkj]

BTW, IP stands for Intellectual Property.

[@riangarianga]

@@bartonkj It's true that's the most usual acronym. In my comment I defined it as industrial property in order to not type it a thousand times. A guitar shape is industrial property, a branch of intellectual property, the one claimed by Gibson in this case. There's a booklet in the WIPO website called "Understanding Industrial Property", this is the excerpt defining it (Glenn should read it): Industrial property takes a range of forms, the main types of which are outlined here. These include patents for inventions, industrial designs (aesthetic creations related to the appearance of industrial products), trademarks, service marks, layout-designs of integrated circuits, commercial names and designations, geographical indications and protection against unfair competition. In some cases, aspects of an intellectual creation, although present, are less clearly defined. What counts then is that the object of industrial property consists of signs conveying information, in particular to consumers, regarding products and services offered on the market. Protection is directed against unauthorized use of such signs that could mislead consumers, and against misleading practices in general.

[@ErickC]

You could call your new series "Lawsuit Guitar Love" after the lawsuit-era Japanese guitars.

[@viciousguitars7966]

I still have couple of pre lawsuit era Vicious!😂

[@WIMPY86]

Morning, sir 😊

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

Morning!

[@Venom-ky2ht]

Glenn you do good work.

[@GregoryMerritt-o1f]

At this point, I'll refuse to touch anything with Gibson on the headstock.

[@ectoplasm]

I wouldn't be surprised if they're choosing to selectively go after the smaller companies not only because it's going to be easier and cheaper to eliminate that competition from the market vs the bigger companies, but it ALSO allows them to go, "Hey, we have been attempting to defend our intellectual property!" in case they do ultimately decide to take on the bigger manufacturers (though, unlikely). They're just doing it all on easy mode. I don't know how much that WOULD stand up in court, but it's one way to look at this and why they choose to ignore bigger companies (and possibly due to their history of losing cases in Japan).

[@MrJakeTerror]

Sad to hear Oktober Guitars was done that way by the bigger companies, their catalogue looked kickass and would have loved to have gotten something from them had I been able to. I think my favorite of their pieces was the Semi-Hollow V they had made for Lips Kudlow of Anvil.

[@TT.Hell.]

Flying V is my favourite type of guitar!

[@wspeed657]

I've filed and have been awarded design patents, here is my opinion. The design patent is appearance, so the pointy ends of a Jackson or ESP guitar are different enough to justify a recognizable difference. The schecter design is the closest with the rounded points. I have a Schecter V1 and the the two points are different lengths. The lower point with the knobs is longer than the top. The scallops at the top are also offset. If Schecter made the design semetrical they would have been sued in my opinion. Goran has symmetrical scallops at the top, the points are symmetrical, and the ends are semi rounded. That might be enough for Gibson's lawyers to think they have a case even though there is a subtle difference. We can only speculate.

[@markooch2112]

Hey Glenn, I would agree with you on the Best Buy extended warranty's on 99% of their items. Two things I do get the extended warranty on are, TV's and headphones. Since 2011 I've had 4 TV's replaced using the extended warranty. Most TV's made today have no longevity. (planed obsolescence) Yes I've paid $179.00 for a TV warranty, but the TV was over $1000.00. So at least for me It's worked out. On the headphones, I'm talking personal use, the cords short out constantly or one side stops working. With Bluetooth earbuds the batteries stop charging. For the $7.00 or $8.00 they want for a $40.00 or $50.00 pair of headphones/Bluetooth earbuds, is worth it to me. Good day buddy, I love the videos!

[@noeditbookreviews]

After 24+ years of playing, I finally bought a V (Jackson King) and man, I love it so much. I wish I'd gotten one a long time ago. All the V's you showed look incredible. Funny enough, I've never been attracted to the gibson models. At all. And I'm a life long SG player.

[@chefbanjo8139]

I’d only accept a collab between Glenn and Legal Eagle if Glenn wears a suit, and Devon wears a battle jacket.

[@misteress3840]

Thanks for fighting the good fight

[@SteveStrummerUK]

The fact that Gibson sees fit to sue makers of 'copycat' guitars reflects more on the reputation and quality of their own instruments. (I'm sure it probably happens?) but we don't hear much about Fender getting litigious with other brands and I'd argue the majority of all copycat guitars ever sold were based on the shape, design features and functionality of the Stratocaster (and to a lesser, but still significant, extent - the Precision Bass and the Telecaster). My gut feeling is that Fender are confident in the knowledge that their models can withstand direct competition without any real detriment to their business model - I suggest we all know exactly what we're going to get when we purchase a 'real' Fender. (I speak as an owner of a Strat, a Tele, a P-Bass and a J-Bass). As you've all-too-often pointed out Glenn, buyers are not nearly so so confident and comfortable when buying guitars with "Gibson" on the headstock - the quality perception must be high on the list of those concerns in conjunction with the highly inflated retail prices versus Fender and other major brands. I recall about 15 years ago when wanting to fulfil my lifelong ambition of owning a US Les Paul. I did my research online and in local guitar stores and with the money I'd saved and put aside for the LP, I ended up happily purchasing a US Strat and a US Tele for about the same outlay! The wool had been pulled from my eyes - now I'm so glad there's someone out there like you doing the same for others 👍

[@BallisticKnifeJesus]

Talk to Dallas Seger of Seger guitars. Gibson came at him for multiple "infringements" and only walked away with one concession. He ended up being able to continue his YG model and other various things.

[@nekot9274]

Going after a small compagnie is about setting a precedent. If that small compagnie is find guitly, you can way easier go after the big guys. From a Legal Eagle video about it.

[@RobSinner]

I designed a Mini V that is basically a copy of a GIBSON, JACKSON and HAMER. KK Downing and both Glenns would love it. I just need someone with a CNC machine xD

[@JonDeth]

*20 years ago, Rob Zombie saw some of my sketches, gave them to B.C. Rich and they went as far as PATENTING invisibolt construction which I invented and Rob's signature guitar is 100% not just my design, but the construction technique!* They modified it by installing the bolts from the front, my original design went to the rear but it's still my work and their patent had I patented mine would require them to use it as a product improvement patent and pay me royalties. *One of many of my lovely stories about celebrities but I have literally hundreds of others that are much, much worse.* Being a victim of celebrity sex trafficking for 29 years is a hell of a lot worse than someone ripping off my work. *To no surprise, they also made my brother one of the most powerful casting directors in the media industry today and now I'm in one hell of a conundrum.*

[@Tigermaster1986]

I do not believe this at all, tbh.

[@shaunzirelli66]

Rob Zombie never had a signature guitar, especially not from BC Rich

[@I-HAVE-A-BOMB]

I've Met Rob and i mean yeah he is not a good person but bro he dont play guitar

[@JonDeth]

@@I-HAVE-A-BOMB yes he does he just doesn't play onstage be it in his solo career or when with White Zombie. *Convincing you people with these cat fish and ghost accounts doesn't matter to me whatsoever lol.* If I were concerned with people believing me, I obviously wouldn't say a fucking word and for over 20 years, I didn't. My brother is who I said he is, my stories are all true and between my photo and user name, you can find everything from my legal name to my home address and phone number. *I have nothing to hide and don't expect any semblance of honesty from anyone working in media including my own brother.*

[@GregoryMerritt-o1f]

Possibility for a series: a showcase video for the companys that get cease and desist notifications from Gibson.

[@latheofheaven1017]

The law is ALL about who has money. If you have enough, you can use the law as a tool to break those who don't have it, and if you're on the receiving end, you can break the law without consequence. Witness events in the USA this last year in particular.

[@CanadianTractor]

I think the guy should have thrown the C&D in the garbage and kept selling them. My customers (I am a IT guy in Canada) get reams of letters from the RIAA for downloading movies and nothing happens to them. I haven't even seen one of them get throttled by their ISP's yet. I don't think that a Canadian court would accept a lawsuit from Gibson against a small builder working out of a collective studio in Toronto. Absolutely would happen in US courts (I lived there for 30+ years), but my experience in Canada suggests that Gibson's complaint wouldn't get much traction here. Would love to hear a lawyer with experience talk on this subject.

[@brianrobichaud4798]

I saw a video where a preschool got sued by Disney for using disney characters in a mural. Then universal stepped in and granted them use of their licensed characters including use of hanna-barbera cartoons. Maybe schecter needs to back vicious guitars in the same way.

[@donkarnage6032]

I'm not so sure about the not suing bigger companies theory. I've got an Ibanez VBT700/V-Blade. Ibanez only produced them for less than a year(2007) because they got a C&D from another company. I've never seen a clear answer on whether it was Gibson or Fender/Jackson or Dean that sued them. I've seen all those companies named as possibilities. The VBT700 was going to become the signature model for Sam Totman from Dragonforce. Totman had been playing Jackson V's before he signed with Ibanez and it is basically a Jackson V. The V-Blade is to my knowledge the last V-shaped guitar that Ibanez has made after Ibanez made them from the 70s until 2007 so whomever sued Ibanez has resulted in them never making a V-shaped guitar again.

[@robertlathan4639]

Guitar max reported dean just won against Gibson just a few months ago over the v and explorer bodies!!! Love you all and have a blessed day!!!!

[@johntang9173]

I love the last sentence of this show (yeah I love the whole show, too). Thanks.

[@ThatBaritoneGuitarGuy]

My question is when a US judge will give the same ruling as the EU General Court. And I quote: "The presence on the market of a significant number of shapes encountered by consumers makes it unlikely that they will regard a particular shape as belonging to a specific manufacturer rather than being just one of the variety of shapes characterising the market." Paraphrase: The presence of so many similar shapes makes customers LESS likely to associate that particular shape with ANY company, much less with ONE SPECIFIC company. Instead of something unique, that particular shape is nothing more than one of the many common shapes. That is why EVERYONE makes strats, teles, Vs, and so on. Literal decades of being so commonplace means shapes have entirely lost their association to any company, much less to one specific company. In anything, the reverse is now true. The brand is what is associated with a specific shape. Gibson = Les Paul. Ibanez = RG. Fender = Telecaster/Stratocaster. Dean = ML. Instead of what company you think of when you see a shape, the question has morphed into what shape you think of when you think about a company. "Too long. Didn't read": Decades of EVERYONE doing it has made it not unique/special anymore. "Still too long.": Cliff. Jump.

[@viciousguitars7966]

LOVE THIS

[@ThatBaritoneGuitarGuy]

Thank you!

[@jonathanwapner6262]

ESP was part of the original lawsuit era.

[@damienalvarez2957]

What Glenn said about Gibson suing ESP is true, though. They could claim infringement in the US market, but Japanese courts ruled that Gibson waited way too long to file a lawsuit, and that consumers were smart enough to know the difference between a Gibson Les Paul and an ESP Eclipse. So Gibson can’t do jack squat about the Japanese market, and I agree with the Japanese court ruling.

[@jonathanwapner6262]

@damienalvarez2957 Back before Eclipses existed, ESP or Edwards, whatever they were calling themselves at the time, were making straight-up clones, which is why Eclipses look the way to do.

[@Grouuumpf]

"if the rules get in the way, break them!" Got that from a manager back when you worked on an assembly line, didn't you? Because it sure sounds like my manager!

[@NikkLiberos]

"That company's got very deep pockets... mostly because they're not paying their workers enough." LOUDER FOR THOSE IN THE BACK!!!

[@StadinBasso]

Builders Who Got The Letter From Gibson I'd watch that series.

[@bayouboattrash]

That Vicious Guitars V looks like a fancy Dean Razorback V

[@MasterEffectsPedals]

the whole thing with lawsuit era japanese guitars like ESP, Ibanez, Tokai, Greco, Edwards, etc is that those japanese brands were not allowed to officially sell their les paul/explorer/V/SG guitars in the united states. I think this is why sometimes when people buy one from japan and have it shipped over it sometimes gets seized at customs. Also from what i remember back then Gibson was more upset about them copying the headstock design rather than the body shape.

[@patrickfouhy9102]

It's also worth noting the thing that Gibson is suing over isn't the V shape, they don't own the V shape. They own the Gibson V shape. The rounded edge V shape. Just like they own the rounded edge Explorer shape, why ESP's EXP (round edges) model is the EX shape now with pointy corners. So Jackson, Solar, etc should all be fine. Gibson did try to sue ESP (who owns Schector btw) more recently and lost in Japan, but they did win when it comes to them being imported to the US in the early 00s. You're absolutely right though, it's easier for Gibson to go after smaller builders than big companies. But I think the real issue is where it's built, where the company is located, and where they are distributing their instruments.

[@viciousguitars7966]

Gibson rarely sues! They intimidate! Guitars i have built were NOT the same! Well, they might look the same to lawyers who know nothing about it. Just like I know nothing about law.

[@DJClassicAuto]

The Tucker had some good ideas, like disc brakes, 4 wheel independent suspension and a padded dash, but it also had some bad ideas which would have prevented it from really catching on as far as sales go. A rear mounted engine with an aluminum block on a car that heavy is a horrible idea. It will overheat regularly with all of the problems associated with that, like blown head gaskets. That center mount 'cyclops eye' head light that tracked with the steering wheel probably looked great on paper, but it just looked stupid on the car, and seldom operated correctly. The SEC investigation definitely hurt Tucker, but that car wasn't going to make it regardless of the SEC, especially since it cost more than twice what your average new car cost back then.

[@davedger]

Happened to Reverend too. They ended up discontinuing the Volcano model

[@DogeDelecto]

The Dave Mustaine Y2KV was Gibson's most recent attempt at suing and winning against (at the time) AKAI's Jackson. Gibson sued them two times before that, specifically over the Firebird, and Explorer. It wasn't until Jackson was bought up by FMIC that they eased up on them.

[@karpczonisko]

Gibson definitely had problem with Thomann and Harley Benton, because old Harley Benton Victory was nearly identical shape as Flying V. Same with EX (Explorer). Now these models are little bit different, for "unknown reasons", yeah...

[@andymoore4046]

Yeah, that's what they would love. Hire him, and immediately place him on the production line. And there he would be! I think dudes gonna go far right where he is! Looks like great to me. And if you love it, it's gotta be good!

[@viciousguitars7966]

Nah dude! Mass production doesn’t excite me! Carving heal to neck transitions? Very much! Thank you for participating here 🖤

[@AndyA1234]

Please explain how the shape of a guitar matters in the first place? It's how it sounds & it's playability that matters. Does calling it Evil make it sound more metal?

[@dawgatemybrain]

He should call it the Flying B. Fits the origin of the design perfectly, and it’s a meta joke on top of that.

[@jacksmith2617]

Tucker is a great movie watched it over and over growing up on VHS, you might have to tell the kids what that is lol

[@thecollective1584]

I checked the LEF website. Unfortunately, they had no sales page available

[@TribalGuitars]

Gibson's largely only still in business because Slash revived the Les Paul again the same way Jimmy Page did in the late 60's after Gibson ceased making them in favor of the SG , which was originally called the Les Paul when Gibson stopped making the original LP shape. The great irony was Slash's LP, the one heard all over the album and seen in pics wasn't even a real Gibson. It was made by a luthier making exact replicas of LP's, down to the logo, out of a backroom, in part because Gibson's LPs before they ceased making them were shit. So much for "Play Authentic". All this crap because a recently reversed a long-standing court decision that there were only a certain amount of guitar body shapes, most which had been copied by others for decades without objection with rare exception save for a few notable ones like the Ibanez and Tokai suits where they were clearly trying to confuse buyers. That's why the trademarks on headstock shapes and logos. But now Gibson wants to go after anyone that doesn't have enough bank to fight them. Worse, now Gibson's being a giant STD cancker again by buying product branded as Gibson from small makers then making their own, barely altered version, and fucking over the little guys. Like the Zither stands. I don't know how those guys at Gibson sleep at night. I'll stick with Fender because they seem to just say, "Have at it, guys.We're secure in our brand and products."

[@johnterpack3940]

Yeah, that's the problem here. You are legally obligated to defend a trademark/copyright/patent to maintain it. You can't let one entity violate it and then try to sue another entity over it. Gibson's trademark is void because they didn't defend it. They are simply strong-arming small builders for no reason. There's only two ways to fight this. 1) Set up a defense fund so small builders can afford to defend themselves. 2) Give Gibson the Bud Light treatment. Either option could deter companies from doing this in the future. Option #2 would be my preferred method. Primarily because there are a slew of reasons Gibson needs to go out of business. But I suspect neither will happen. People will simply go on like before and keep complaining about Gibson while continuing to keep Gibson afloat.

[@michaelmenkes8085]

Gibson eventually lost the Dean case and Dean was ripping off Gibson designs for at least as long as Jackson has been making the Rhodes V and King V, and the pointy ends are distinctive compared to the Dean V. On top of it, Jackson and Kramer have been copying each other for decades and Gibson owns Kramer. These companies have had a far better time enforcing trademark in a headstock. Lets take another approach: body shape protectionism is promoting creativity over cloning. The cheap knockoff clone being a huge problem. So many guitars on Amazon that are exact copies of ESP signature models for $200, including the branding. Goran rocked his redesigned Stealth V.

[@geeman907]

You might want to consider legal precedent here as well. If a court rules against the small builder they can then apply the same logic to every other company. Almost seems like it’s would make sense for these other companies force a class action.

[@philwild5279]

If I was a conspiracy nut job, I'd say it was because Glenn has heaped scorn on Gibson's products (rightly so) and praised Viscious as a wonderful alternative.

[@komobabo]

My 2 cents is this: Law in the US is based on precedence. Which basically just means that when something is decided in court, it essentially becomes law and can be defended easily after the fact. So they might be trying to establish precedence which would allow them to sue these bigger companies and they're essentially trying the small ones before moving on to the big fish. This is why so many cases are settled out of court so the involving suit does not become law. The first guy does have a point where if they don't appear on paper to be "defending" their IP they lose it. The information from the Japan case is 100% true. They took too long to try to defend it and they wound up getting their ass kicked since Japan's court basically decided that Gibson's "trademark shapes" were essentially generic at this point and cannot now come to claim them. They are likely trying to avoid that in the US so they are putting in the paperwork so they can claim it in the future if need be.

[@SecretMetalFromAbyss]

My 7string Solars can fit perfectly in my Ibanez UV777 case so there might be some resemblance with the designs but I haven't heard about any lawsuits regarding that. :D

[@josemoz7280]

Living in Sue.S.A. Its all about how much legal defense you can afford, not about the legal defense you deserve.

[@deluxe_capacitor]

I usually don’t care about this kind of stuff but my first ever electric guitar was a King V lol

[@psychochicken9535]

Gibson is panicking.

[@garywagstaff7142]

Well, unfortunately, in many ways they’ve become a “lifestyle” brand. Enough people are concerned about what it says on the headstock that they’re able to keep going. They’re essentially selling a heritage. They are one of the few guitars that I would never purchase sight unseen. Their QC is just way too spotty. And it’s not about the money in my case. I have guitars that cost more than many Gibsons…but they’re a better value. Fit & finish, QC, playability…outstanding. Just all around better guitars. Will they hold their value 50 years from? I do not care one iota. I buy them to play, not put under the bed. So yeah, they should be panicking. Other builders are making better guitars, and sometimes for much less.

[@psychochicken9535]

@garywagstaff7142 I agree. When you try to sell your product on your name alone, you always lose. People notice, and it will stay with them they bought a subpar product. As a company, you have to have quality and keep up with the competition, and hopefully surpass them.

[@richardmcgruder5437]

Hy Glen Dude we love your content can you do a segmet or 2 on the maintanince repairs advice and issues youve experenced of your amps and rack gear ?❤❤

[@Dave-Rough-Diamond-Dunn]

The 2008 crash was great for me here in South Australia! All of the entertainment stuff from China became so much more affordable! We all got finally got big screen TVs, entertainment units etc, and Kevin Rudd gave us all a grand or so each to spend! I loved it! Then the "Coalition" was voted in because while they couldn't beat Labor alone, they could together. And things have been pretty shit for the 'lower class' ever since. Even this week I've heard Labor being criticised for listening to the Unions! How dare they make life better for the average worker!!! The Bastards!

[@EbonyPope]

Legal Eagle collaboriation would be great!

[@5tghy67ujmnbvfr4]

I own a Jackson v! Snagged is as a demo from sweetwater. The white with black edges shown in the thumbnail 😅

[@rondorn4331]

One thing I noticed about Goron’s V is that the shape of the guitar and head stock look like the Gibson..very closely , where a lot of the other major brands have different headstocks and other differences. Don’t want to defend Gibson, but that ‘might’ be what is going on.

[@vorpalblades]

Headstocks are a protected design element, bodies are not.

[@BlackReaperMetal]

I have an LEF since 2014. Still my favorite guitar. Cheers from México. Edit: I know you are not an explorer guy, but check out his take with the EXP. Nun mor metuhl

[@girhen]

Adam Neely has done videos with Legal Eagle. I know you've worked with him before - maybe start there if you want a foot in the door.

[@bobmartino8073]

Just a comment on the Best Buy thing. It's not an "Insurance Policy" It's an "Extended Warranty". I'm surprised you said this having just had a problem with your Neve. You were happy to announce that Neve stepped up right away to help with your problem but what happens if you have a problem a year and a half from now? When Neve tells you that your factory guarantee has expired? You will pay out-of-pocket for the repair that could potentially cost you twice as much as the 2 or 3 year extended warranty would have costed you, had you purchased it when the product was new. As a Finance Manager in the auto industry I've seen this happen multiple times. People biting off their nose to spite their face. I understand that some companies try to charge insane prices for warranties but if you can purchase one at a fair price, sometimes 1 claim is well worth it. God knows we pay out the ass in America for health insurance that we may never use. Is $800 not worth protecting a $20,000 or in your case $60,000+ product?