Warriors of Chaos List Building Strategies | Warhammer the Old World | Square Based Show

[@markysgeeklab8783]

I'm listening to this in a hammock drinking a cold lager in NZ. Daffodils are flowering and the leafs on my tree are budding... feels like a great time to be alive ❤

[@doubleskulls]

Nice video. When talking about Ensorcelled Weapons this does not apply when using an Extra Hand Weapon. It really underlines purpose of Halberd, because you are giving up a point of save (for losing the shield) while gaining a point of strength.

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

“Conn, Sonar! Contact bearing dead ahead!” “Sonar, Conn. Can you identify?” “It’s Chaos, Skipper. It’s square based and it’s going deep!”

[@Cripplerzeist]

One ping only.

[@stevebull7105]

It’s a DEEP DOIVE! 🌊🐟

[@rea9247]

Classic

[@stanislavsafonov1119]

Great episode liked it!

[@knedoshane]

Honestly, this is the first time dragon ogres have been any good. As a HUGE fan of dragon ogres, I'm actually hoping for Kholek to finally get a model and have a themed army list in the Beastmen Arcane Journal.

[@Ali410000]

Or a Karanok the Black profile/model?😉

[@Choom89]

That would be sick!

[@ChazCharlie1]

It's here! It's finally here! Keep calm! KEEP CALM!

[@consistentlystupid4726]

I think Chaos Warriors get slept on a bit in terms of their usefulness. Now I'm not trying to claim they're anywhere near Top Tier or anything like that. Infantry in general has some issues in this edition, but I think people underestimate Chaos Warriors with shields (And the Mark of Nurgle if you wanted to make them even tankier). I have found that a block of 16 Chaos Warriors with Shield and Full Command hold up pretty well, and still say (relatively) cheap at 242 points. I see a lot of people still sticking to 5 in a rank, but I don't think that 1 extra attack is worth it. If you run them 5x4 you end up spending almost 300 points, but if you run them 5x3 any casualty removes one of your Rank Bonuses. 4x4 gives you a cushion of 4 Warriors to lose before losing a Rank Bonus. I think hand waving them by saying "But if they get charged by Pegasus Knights" isn't very fair, as Pegasus Knights are considered one of the best units in one of the best armies in the game currently. What really saves them, imo, is Weapon Skill 5. That means almost everyone other than Heroes/Lords and crazy ultra elite units like Grail Knights, Swordmasters of Hoeth, Blade Dancers, ect will always be hitting them on 4's. This makes the Mark of Nurgle particularly strong on them. Making someone re-roll 1/3 of the hits they can get on the unit can swing the tide of combat. One bad roll on the charge and all of a sudden that unit of Chaos Warriors only Gives Ground instead of Falls Back in Good Order which is incredibly bad for any Cavalry that was relying on getting that juicy charge bonus on the second round of combat. Like I said, they're not S Tier or anything, but I think people write them off too easily.

[@Leroy_Jenkins_]

100%, I keep them as my anchor with heavier hitting options flanking them. Keeps them semi protected but is a nightmare when they get in and the support options shift to take flanks or block. Usually drogres/forsaken. Then everything else with fast movement takes a flanks and aggressively pushes into the center, where possible in hopes of being able to isolate sections from turn 3 on. Warriors are the key to making it work otherwise the line gets messed up a bit. Doesnt work for all games, but is pretty consistent and piggybacks off a more refused flank approach.

[@iJasko]

Yeah, very much agree. I think Rob neglects the fact that Warriors and Knights are still core troops. And guess what: your opponents will have 500pts in core as well! And WoC core with Warriors and Knights will usually beat any other core in the game. Fanatics will take a toll, yes, but what else? Some other units are maybe their equal, but no army has a *better* core unit, and even the equal ones usually are restricted in some way.

[@jackrogers5712]

I love Old World, but I'm one of the weird plebians that loves the basic troops from every army. I own more than 130 Clanrats, probably 50 Saurus, more Temple Guard than I'm comfortable counting and a legion of Skinks. Plz GW, I want to field actual blocks of troops. Not just spam laser dinosaurs.

[@iJasko]

1:05:53 they specifically said „no new models for WoC with this release“. There might be a Lord on Chaos Dragon in the works, but it won’t come out at this point.

[@imalu5757]

Important to note the demon prince doesn’t get regen against magical attacks. Which is probably what will be aimed in his direction.

[@aaronsomerville2124]

What would you think about a rule that says you cannot spend more on Characters than you spend on Core? That might tone down the Herohammer just a little bit by forcing a tradeoff on the big dragon builds.

[@markysgeeklab8783]

Interesting idea. That's a rule that would make a 1 off/annual event fun. I'd want to play in that event, but not sure I'd want the game to be like that 100% of the time.

[@chapter_129]

Yes! Finally! I've been checking every day waiting for it.

[@The_Horned_Rat]

Val looks like a very angry dwarf but in a good way :)

[@cloraformsgood5340]

Paint him green and you got an ork

[@knedoshane]

Chaos Dwarf, who is not happy with his pet Hellcannon...

[@C1umsyJester]

List building strategy “okay so you put in galrauch”

[@chriscousens111]

Dragon? Good. Level 4? Good? Dragon that's also a Level 4? Double good!

[@Ali410000]

At least GW aren't considering bringing Karanok the Black to the tabletop...

[@outandaboutintheworl]

There was a couple of small mistakes in this, but there was one really big one. You lose the Ensorcelled Weapons rule when take extra hand weapons. That's a really basic rule to get when we've playing this long.

[@ClaudiosCollection]

Super stoked for this Arcane Journal! Wolves of the Sea are so bloody cool, and the Warpfire Dragon! So good! Warriors of Chaos will always be my favorite army!

[@michaelf.7339]

Great as always, need that empire deep doive though! Arcane journal in Q1 2025 is still too long!

[@apocolototh1948]

Im a bit sad, I love the mighty bloodcrusher modells, and planned to make a list with as many khorne people on chaos steed as possible, if they dont get added in the arcane journal. But since only lords and champs can hve them, thats a max of 3in a 2k point army. edit....actually you make a good point, I can just use them to proxy dragon ogres

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

1:27:57 re:Warriors I’m not a good player and I’m still figuring out magnetizing my WoC army bases before spraying. I haven’t played square based since WHFB8. Those caveats aside, isn’t the point of a Warrior to become a Chosen, champion, or prince? And wouldn’t Chosen, champions, and princes want to use them as anvils? It’s not an original thought but I think the slow, defensive, and not very killy warriors is very fluffy. A champion would use them to block to charges so he can kill models while promising the warriors he’ll remember them when he ascends to demonhood. I’m building lists with units of 5-8 with swords and boards so that my actually killy units can better move to do the gods’ work. You can avoid one anvil, but can you avoid 4 or 5 small ones trying to clog the board ? Genuinely excited to try it! 🎉

[@The_Captain40k]

Just want to point out that with marks and some items you can make a full 2k army out of the army box. It may not be amazing but you’re getting on the table with a single £88 purchase from a discount seller. What other army or even game has that kind of value?!

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Right?

[@jayjay8970]

Kings of War Mega Army boxes tbf. But I have just got this Chaos box for this very reason!

[@bennconner1195]

I’d change the warriors of chaos by making it so that chaos warriors get access to full plate. I’d also limit dragon ogres by making it so that you have to bring a shagoth if you want to unlock them as a special option.

[@ozymandias7493]

I just finished the video. Val's take on Chaos Warriors is spot on to me. i do the same with my dismounted Knights in Bretonnia. Those small units are still slow but they eat up core, opens up more targets for you opponent to shoot., and in general are a nuisance. My big question is if you do the no dragon build how do you deal with an enemy dragon, I also do not want to go the cliche dragon but I worry about how you dump enemy dragons. Love to hear your thoughts?

[@G1Bryce]

0:06 I am new here so it took me a moment to understand what's wrong with Val. Did he perhaps miss his medication at the asylum? No, it turns out the condition is even worse than I could have expected, he's Canadian

[@BlastastiC]

At a recent event, people were 100% not expecting the Swiftstride removal of the Dreadquake mortar - I love having that in my Chaos Dwarfs list, even though it is a pricey unit. And for some unknown reason it still affects units with Fly.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I was skeptical of people who were really excited about that ability, but perhaps I was .... wrong? - Val

[@BlastastiC]

​@@SquareBasedOldWorldthe ability itself is amazing. If only it were on a cheaper and less swingy artillery unit! All of a sudden you lose 3" range on your charge declaration range and assuming you CAN actually declare the charge you lose D6+1 on your movement during it. I caught a couple of units of knights in it and it was like "Oh. Oh no."

[@Folgeantrag]

I like Chaos Ogres. Beside their Capabilities and Charakter the Ogre Kingdom Bulls and Ironguts Modells fits very well in a Chaos Army and you get more of them from GW for your money

[@earnestwanderer2471]

People have almost certainly considered this already, but... how what do you think about reworking the percentage breakdown of the army lists to help out more basic infantry units?

[@SwekosAgain]

Sorry to burst your khorne warrior bubble guys but additional hand weapons remove the -1ap bonus from ensorcelled weapons. "Note that this special rule only applies to a single, non-magical hand weapon and does not apply to a model’s mount (should it have one). If the model is using two hand weapons or any other sort of weapon, this special rule ceases to apply." Ravening hordes p81

[@AP-hv9ll]

Since I’m rolling with the Daemon Prince. Diabolic Splendor is my ride or die. It only matters in BS shooting, but it’s mattered overall.

[@highmarshalbalian680]

Enemy in the mist? Rob has seen the 13th Warrior 😬

[@Ultr4l0f]

46:00 Acid ichor + deamon sword combo! 😅 Punch yourself. Splash the enemy.

[@ryanbowald2425]

I once got a chaos sorcerer lord up to 7 attacks. It was glorious!

[@Ultr4l0f]

2:26 It might be a meme. But what if you combine your tzeentchian gunline with some actual guns? So Warriors with marks of T with mages. Doggos. 2 cannons. A lord on dragon and 2 mages. Any points left spent on a dragon ogre or two.

[@RolandoRatas]

I blame you both for me pulling the trigger on some The Old World miniatures for a brand new army from scratch.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

I'll accept that rap

[@furiousfilth1768]

That’s a mighty fine helmets you have there 😂

[@michaelf.7339]

Hellblaster + Engineer also makes Chosen Chaos Knights very unhappy.

[@Zenfoxgames]

Rob shitting on Chaos Core really drives home how absolutely terrible the High Elf core is. Like I would love to have Chaos Knights instead of silver helms. 5 points for +1 WS St and To and -1 movement.

[@Folgeantrag]

Warrior of Chaos Fans can very likely sufferer from Power Gamer Problems

[@Na_bro_leon]

Plus a St4 mount and the ability to give them marks. Mark of Khorne is dicey in general, but given to a cheap-ish, throwaway knight unit? Excellent!

[@arisd1669]

No Val, Canadians are the Dark Elves. How does that make you feel? XD

[@sebastiencarrieres8825]

As a Canadian, I'm very proud of that fact.

[@jimart3230]

Size 5 head in a size 3 helmet

[@JustinDoyle-zk2pe]

After Dwarfs the deep dive effect should be the fart. Sometimes the best content comes unintended.

[@leeevans9042]

Great hat val!!!!

[@FrycoN]

Hello. I have a tricky question. I have Lord on Forest Dragon. Wood Elf Glade Lord have "fire & flee" special rule, but "breath weapons" can't be used as charge reaction so my question is, can Forest Dragon use "fire and flee" as charge reaction?

[@Tulkash01]

They LIVE!!!!!!! 😇

[@AndyM_323YYY]

Unstable on the Daemon Prince looks like a deal breaker to me.

[@thesqueaze6509]

So deep. So dive. Wow.

[@LawL_LawL]

This came up in a discord discussion, but does Square Based have a ruling in mind for chariots and fanatics interacting with entrenched war machines/units? RAW there is no actual physical terrain piece to cause issues, it's a case of "counts as" and the real thing not being quite the same. RAI I would think there is at least a front-facing obstacle, or at least there is the intent for such. Do a ruling for this for future SB GTs?

[@Ultr4l0f]

1:55:00 This is how it always have been. 5th edition. Chaosknights of Khorne. 4 attacks each! S6 (and thus AP3) on the charge. But 80pts per model. One cannon and one spell and you are atleast halfway dead. A Boltthrower and a fantatic will murder everything. But. If you get them into combat? Then you will do horrible horrible things. Even if it was just 3 knights. 12 attacks? Thats alot!

[@terrorbaas]

2:24:02 isn’t the -2 AP only for stomp attacks on behemoths or am I missing something?

[@imalu5757]

Where are you getting chaos spawn unstable from? It’s not on digital page, physical page or in errata 😅

[@BattlesforAll]

Am I going crazy, or was there an individual dragon (Warpfire) with no rider spoiled? I have ral partha dragons with no riders that need to be played!!

[@Swarbie8D]

Yeah, the Arcane Journal adds Warpfire Dragons which can be taken 0-1 in Rare for the base army and Heralds of Darkness. They can also be level 2 casters! They’re pretty good, I’m looking forward to running one

[@BattlesforAll]

@@Swarbie8D WOOHOO!

[@BananenbaumEY]

There it is!

[@NisGaarde]

Rubber Helmets for the Rubber Helmet God!

[@bennconner1195]

Dose the behemoth unit type only grant AP 2 to stomp attacks?

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Yes. I misspoke I think briefly. Lol it's funny you caught that because I remember thinking "what did I just say?"

[@DAN_OOTFP]

That gutpunch feeling when every unit but one in the army youre lovingly painting is a bit meh... Ah well! Paint for the paint god! Who cares about winning... 😂

[@abyssus9304]

Duel hand weapon doesn't get the ap 1 sadly.

[@earnestwanderer2471]

Okay Rob. You can’t have more than one “best ‘x’ in the game” thing.

[@kealyj]

Check out that headwear!

[@HMatthewHowarth]

Mark or Slaanesh on Chosen Knights for counter charge tie breaker

[@evanvaldyke353]

Im sad as a lizardman player hearing you complain so much about Chaos Warriors as I look at my Saurus

[@iJasko]

Can’t agree with shitting on the Hellcannon. First of all, that MW(D3) indeed is under the whole template. You can literally kill a 3x2 unit of Ogres with one shot. A cannon can’t do that. Yes, there‘s a risk to explode. At LD9 I‘ll take it. And how many units have that Ward Save which so easily can swat those shots aside? Not many.

[@backinthelapse]

Cartoon face if I’ve ever seen one haha

[@Zenfoxgames]

If only there was some other magic item that would let a second wizard choose their spells!!! Perhaps in some journal of arcane lore… 🤔

[@DeusExDraconian]

I'm not very happy about those WS 7 Chaos Lords and WS 5 Chosen.

[@leeevans9042]

Wooooohooooooo🎉

[@icklemoo]

guy on dragon and 2 of those big ass chaos warp spawn and yeet them the enemy

[@Leroy_Jenkins_]

Ive always loved chaos. So much so, when my ex-wife asked me to pick one, I chose the only correct answer.

[@darrenhardy9005]

Strong 💪 look Val 😂

[@Hobbitonhold]

Rob there were working class and a baby on that boat. Come on.

[@Hamsammich111]

Acid ichor + daemonsword.... discuss

[@Iron_Wyvern]

Fuckin' hard ass helmet

[@nkari8971]

Maaaan val.. that kids helmet does NOT fit your adult head.. LOL.. :P

[@ChaosSwarm]

ye warriors of chaos was god in Warhammer fantasy when had 4+ save base and 2 attack's base.

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

Will the Buffalo Bills lose their first game of the season this weekend, because VAL wore his Minnesota Vikings hat?!?! Stay tuned… * Closeted Vikings fans should feel no shame. Sincerely, - a Steelers fan, who hasn’t seen a playoff win for Pittsburgh since Hillary lost to Trump. P.S., thanks for the deeeeep dive, and the opening scowl that looked exactly like that classic GW ogre.

[@nathanbuxton3271]

[@Choom89]

Dragon Ogre Val xD

[@Infernal_Puppet]

Did you miss Dragon Ogres? They are one of the best units in the army.

[@Bog_Dog]

They mention that, but as they’re in the beast men book they don’t look too detailed at them, but yeah they’re amazing haha

[@iJasko]

Gaze of the Gods is too powerful for me, not gonna lie. ALL characters can roll on it EVERY turn, there is only ONE bad result AND there is a cheap upgrade they can take MULTIPLE times for a re-roll? And freaking Daemon Princes have it too? Naaaaah. At least take it back to having to win a challenge and maybe have one character take an item or gift of chaos or something to be able to do it more often. But this is just ridiculous.

[@samgibbs8194]

Plus the book keeping is a pain! I also wish the 1 result led to another chart with some interesting bad stuff. So there is actually more risk associated with it. Eg on a 1, followed by a 1, they turn into a spawn (it's a classic!)

[@iJasko]

@@samgibbs8194 completely agree! Risk of spawn needs to come back

[@AndrzejWlusek]

The strategy is simple. You take three dragons out of 2,000 and no one has the sense to play.

[@YouTubeuser6294]

Comparing the knights to the boar boys is really unfair for the knights. You are comparing them against the most point efficient heavy cav of the game.

[@fragfmgill]

Bit grim joking about people dieing in the sea guys :( we should be about love and getting along!

[@allconsuminghat-]

Booo

[@ChazCharlie1]

@@fragfmgill they could have chosen to stay in France... it's not THAT bad...

[@Hobbitonhold]

More so as there was a baby on board which thankfully survived. Rob is a bit of a wanker when he comes to politics and makes poor tasted jokes often. Like literally mocking old dudes for playing conkers.

[@timmcpharlin773]

Rob seriously he makes this unwatchable. Dump him now. Please

[@jackrogers5712]

Kick rocks, that's my dad you're talking about

[@timmcpharlin773]

@jackrogers5712 sorry.