ST Tarsus IV

[@blockmasterscott]

I love how Spock and Bones have each other's backs even though they argue all the time.

[@hubbsllc]

Spock seems a little keyed up in this scene - my takeaway is that Spock may not let on much but he's very driven regarding matters of justice. Recall that it was Spock who started calling out Khan at the dinner table in "Space Seed."

[@SuperOmnicronsj44]

They were two halves, one trying to argue is logic and center himself, the other trying to get his emotional side to win out and prove to himself that he is more human than Vulcan. Spock reminds the doctor to stay "in control" as McCoy often lost his temper and was erratic with situations.

[@jv-lk7bc]

something the American people could learn from rght about now.

[@jakesmith6337]

You mistake loyalty to Comrades over duty & truth

[@harryc1971]

They are all close friends, Bones busts Spocks balls from time to time but its not hateful and occasionally Spock gets a zinger in himself.

[@lucyhartwell2134]

In the original script, James T. Kirk's parents were amongst those massacred on Tarsus IV. He was 13 years old at the time.

[@ariadnefrolich7243]

Yikes!

[@hollyhock9638]

Yeah I think I remembered something like that or maybe I misunderstood it (though I mean what would an underage Kirk be doing on some random colony unless he lived there, I doubt there would have been a lot of traveling to that colony and those who were just visitors would have been turned away I imagine due to food shortages so Kirk couldn't have just been visiting it temporarily ) but like when I watched the star trek movies and suddenly he was not from that colony but from Iowa it confused the heck out of me. I was like "didn't you survive some sort of home colony massacre? What do you mean Iowa!?" Kirk lore is literally the "what goin on in Ohio?" meme I swear. Edit: so in this scene Kirk said he saw kodos 20 years ago, at the start of tos Kirk is 32 years old that means he was 12 when this shit went down.

[@lucyhartwell2134]

@@hollyhock9638 I imagine Kirk was born in Iowa, his parents moved to Tarsus, and then they moved back after the whole murderous dictator thing went down.

[@LordZontar]

I've often suspected that might have been the case. The first season gives the impression of Kirk as a man with a lot of tragedy in his background. The gravitas of his character was the result of something other than the discipline of the service.

[@mr.objective6936]

How ironic. In the 2009 remake, Kirk’s dad (& almost his mom too) was wasted by an unstable alien time traveler on the same day Kirk was born.

[@oommdtube]

Am I the only one that is still drawn these originals, they are so entertaining!

[@kingsman8475]

I watch 3 episodes a day. A radio journalist was interviewing me over the phone, and he asked how many times I watched Star Trek or how many times each episode. I gave him my honest answer, and the interview went south. I asked him, sir, do you know old I am. He realized his mistake. The interview never aired because he thought he was speaking to someone in their 20s or 30s. His mistake may have embarrassed him, and because many of these radio guys believe they are infallible.

[@lazyhazeldaisy9596]

I love it when Spock goes to McCoy for some back up and gets it they might disagree most of the time but when things get tough they support one another totally, just love them. x

[@hubbsllc]

I've noticed that nothing gets Spock's back up like dictators and tyrants. He investigates and deduces that Karidian is almost certainly Kodos, feeling strongly enough about it to take the news to McCoy essentially behind Kirk's back (the subtext being that Spock, along with us by observing Kirk's treatment of the troupe, suspects that Kirk is thinking the same thing). It is also Spock who pins down Khan at the dinner table in "Space Seed." Both episodes have some really good writing.

[@Rosabell86]

The need to have this storyline in the new Star Trek films

[@photonicus]

Agreed! It would enable us to visit Kirk's early teens. I think Kirk was on Tarsus IV in the first place for some sort of school related summer courses. Instead of studying he ended up witnessing a massacre...and days on end evading the troops of Kodos.

[@Emma-il7su]

​@@photonicus I think it's possible that he was sent to Tarsus IV, most likely by Frank or Winona after the incident with the car and the cliff. If you watch closely during Into Darkness, when they're reading Harrison's bio during the meeting, which states he was one of nine survivors on Tarsus IV, Kirk blinks a few times, like he's surprised, and almost immediately looks up at Spock, who is already looking at him, both looking like they're a little suspicious of something, which would make sense if Jim was one of the Tarsus nine and knew for a fact Harrison wasn't one of them. It is entirely possible that Kirk was on Tarsus IV during the AOS.

[@burtonryan50]

The only time I noticed how close it's been done was when Bill Shatner decided to write his own Star Trek novels which resurrect Captain Kirk after he was killed in one of the films. In his one book Star Trek: Avenger, the plot of Kirk's time on Taursus IV comes into play when the Federation of the 24th century comes under attack by a deadly virogen that's hitting other Star systems. It's actually a pretty damn good read, and I would encourage anyone to check it out.

[@theinnerlight8016]

Nooo. Jar Jar will just ruin it.

[@Knightfall182]

This is how Hoshi Sato died in canon

[@BigNoseDog]

This episode showed that Shatner can give a good performance and not ham it up if the writing and directing is good

[@flycatcher123]

I think of that VERY thing when I see the episode, Assignment: Earth.

[@kapitan19969838]

William Shatner always delivered in TOS

[@mcd22630]

I agree, when he isn’t in a situation where he try to makeup for deficiencies in a script, he can give a very good performance.

[@johcafra]

Among the very few TOS episodes that have grown on me over (lo) these many decades. Spock takes his human factor up a notch, and the scene with him, McCoy and Kirk is the trio at their very best.

[@kapitan19969838]

Very few? 🤨

[@johcafra]

@@kapitan19969838 So few like you wouldn't believe. Bear in mind I still view TOS, but not out of a sense of nostalgia...the great majority of episodes are GOOD. Along these lines, a friend and film critic asked me, "What movies do you appreciate more with age?" That gave me pause. Right now I can count them on the fingers of one hand.

[@dannycheesums]

There were times when the dialogue was so good in this show

[@jamalmccoy1982]

This scene is so well acted by kirk and spock. ... conscious of the king was a underrated episode. ....spock really exposes his human half. ...

[@jv-lk7bc]

"Conscience of the King"

[@charlesmiller6281]

One of the great Star Trek episodes, a bona fide Greek tragedy in outer space. Kirk falls in love with the girl everyone assumes has to be innocent, only to discover she is the one killing all the witnesses. Being Kirk, he does the right thing anyway. The evil Kodos who wanted only to salvage his daughters innocence. The starship captain who must endure the loneliness of command. The daughter driven mad almost from birth. What a story.

[@markm4033]

That's why the original is the best. Great story writing.

[@hubbsllc]

It *is* a great story. My take was that Kirk's apparent love for the girl was a manipulation; he was using her in hopes of pinning down Kodos.

[@charlesmiller6281]

@@hubbsllc Oh yeah, for sure. Kirk was the first, and still ultimate, Mack Daddy. But he was still very much a vulnerable human being. One time he fell hard was Requiem for Methuselah where he fell in love with Rena kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5-vpqKhhLGSaKc Easily one of the best love/friendship stories, and probably the most poignant Star Trek ending ever.

[@jamalmccoy1982]

Great episode! !!!

[@LordZontar]

Well actually, this is Hamlet in space -- with Kirk cast in the role of the Prince of Denmark here. The difference is that his seeming indecisiveness is very different from Hamlet's, with Kirk determined to prove absolutely that Karidan (here filling the role of the wicked uncle King Claudius) is the escaped war criminal Kodos rather than simply being unable to commit to revenge as Hamlet was. Lenore is sort of filling the dual role of Claudius as well as Ophelia.

[@candybanks8717]

It was these moments of character development that made every great moment to come, in the series and films, so impactful. When I was little I wanted more phaser fights, now, as a man in my fifties, I revel in the mental and psychological tension that has rarely been matched on television. As masculine as Kirk was it was thinking and the humility to as a trusted friend for advice that kept them alive.

[@SuperOmnicronsj44]

This was brilliant. Still miss this version of Star Trek ...

[@DarthCipient]

Great scene. Three amazing characters and actors.

[@evansquilt]

I can't believe that it took me until now to realize that this episode was an allegory on war crimes trials.

[@johnporcella2375]

Shatner was one of the co-stars of 'Judgement At Nuremburg' a film about the post-war trials of the top Nazis.

[@dadrocha7741]

Try reading Starfleet Academy: Collision Course by William Shatner. It connects directly with this episode.

[@russell5078084]

I miss Trek when it was still Trek.

[@bernhardwall6876]

I just counted three episodes with titles taken from Shakespeare: "The Conscience of the King" from "Hamlet," and two from Macbeth, "Dagger of the Mind" and "All Our Yesterdays."

[@kmoore02809]

Very underrated and underappreciated episode.

[@richardched6085]

Just realized that Kodos is Thanos....

[@law5121]

Richard Ched otherway around and you watched the RLM review of IW

[@richardched6085]

+Law5121 What review? I came up with that on my own lol.

[@murderousjarvis]

What?

[@thetooginator153]

Richard Ched - You’re right! The plot ideas are pretty similar. This episode had SERIOUS moral ambiguity, which was pretty daring for TV. I really liked the episodes where the villain thinks he’s right. Khan was similar: he felt he did the right thing by trying to restore order on Earth by force.

[@AdhamOhm]

Even the way Kodos executed half of the colonists sounds familiar. "The method of execution Kodos used was said to have been an antimatter chamber, which, after he threw a switch, completely disintegrated the four thousand colonists all at once." Although at least with Thanos, the half who died were chosen at random with everyone getting the same 50/50 chance. Kodos personally selected people based on his opinions of eugenics.

[@markisaac3550]

Three of them together was awesome

[@finnmccool684]

It's an allegory about the nazis who fled Germany and then disappeared.

[@BigNoseDog]

Leo Peridot, black people do go to Trump rallies. They’re paid to stand on the stage behind Trump so that he can use them to counter accusations he’s racist.

[@mmccrownus2406]

@@BigNoseDog You’re such a witless pawn

[@samcrubish1336]

@@BigNoseDog He is not racist and you better leave right now or I will come after you.

[@jv-lk7bc]

its an allegory about as lot of things. Germany didn't invent barbarism. Didn't finish it off either.

[@Big_Bag_of_Pus]

@@samcrubish1336 For someone who's not a racist, he sure says a lot of racist stuff.

[@PlasmaCoolantLeak]

I need to watch "The Conscience of the King" soon.

[@sarahfullerton6894]

Thank you for the correct spelling!

[@fredchampion4059]

Superb story telling and acting. "I've got to be absolutely sure" still spine tingling. And then the mad daughter's admission brings the climax. Outstanding episode ❤❤❤

[@Donald43]

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. - Homer Simpson

[@tasha3762]

The conscious of the king , a very good episode

[@jv-lk7bc]

"Conscience of the King"

[@chriscureton622]

Spock was ahead of his time 💥

[@maipigenDK]

rip leonard

[@MLK-KAEFENTERPRISES]

This show was so ahead of its time.

[@ashroskell]

Gripping story, well plotted. Script is pretty good too. The three main Star Trek protagonists, each doing their thing, and at the height of their powers; still something to behold. Interestingly, having watched this much, I really want to see how the story shakes out. Thanks for that.

[@65if2007]

I had never seen the first two minutes and 30 seconds before. They are certainly consistent with what I remember about this episode and add some breadth to it. That segment was cut out of the network television reruns that I'd seen in the past.

[@VitalityMassage]

Spock can figure out anything!

[@bobastu]

I think if they show the Kirk years, quite a few of these episodes need to be touched on. Leaving out things like Spocks Brain. Lol

[@andysahs1599]

In a Mirror Darkly Enterprise episode on the USS Defiant NCC-1764 the computer it says that about the prime universe Hoshi Sato that she is one of the people that was killed by Kudos during the massacre of Tarsus IV.

[@samcrubish1336]

In that case people must've lived a long time during that period because Hoshi would've been over a hundred years old by then.

[@jv-lk7bc]

@@samcrubish1336 yes. two hundred years ago people would have been amazed by our average life expectancy....

[@IGotYumph]

Well, what I inferred was that AU!Kirk was raised without a father, which was more or less the reason for his downward spiral into being such a rebel. And in either universe, Kirk is an intelligent guy with a knack for trouble making. Without George Kirk there to teach him discipline from the start, it makes sense to me the way he is in the Abrams films. I agree, though, I wish they gave him more backstory in the new movies and not favor Spock so much (as much as I love him, too).

[@stefanieprejean6609]

Kirk was actually raised by his biological parents and there was no driving cars into ravines - TOS is canon. Don't believe he was really all that much of a rebel - in the novelization of Search for Spock, he states he was never as much of a hothead as his son, David Marcus. He also had a brother named Sam. However, it is true he had an unorthodox solution to the Kobayashi Maru scenario.

[@christianeaster2776]

Spock's speaking to the computer do research on the captain and others is something we have now. Again, Star Trek predicted the future. 😊

[@veryinteresting2208]

There are no bad episodes in TOS. Thank you Mr. Roddenberry.

[@daarianaharis]

I beg to differ. I still shudder thinking about The Omega Glory.

[@burtonryan50]

Spock's Brain

[@Tuning_Spork]

"Spock's Brain" was bad, but it's so bad it's fun. And the women are cute. "The Omega Glory" is definitely cringe worthy, though.

[@bodieofci5418]

The Way to Eden. Kill me now.

[@SuperOmnicronsj44]

1. Spock's Brain - sorry that was horrible.

[@TheMellowPumpkin]

Hoshi Sato was one of those killed on Tarsus IV.

[@makomenos2921]

TheMellowPumpkin sure?

[@kdrapertrucker]

Where did you come up with that?

[@briansammond7801]

@@kdrapertrucker From Memory Alpha: "According to Mike Sussman, a computer readout on the USS Defiant in "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II" stated that Hoshi Sato was among those killed by Kodos on Tarsus Four. However, the relevant section of the bio did not appear in the finished cut of the episode. "

[@RCAvhstape]

Wow, never caught that before.

[@nathanhale7444]

Huh I don't remember this one. Star Trek tos and TNG were a family favorite and we watched them every night.

[@Steve-wo7gt]

One of the few times in TOS where Dr. McCoy defends Spock. 😆

[@followerofjulian1652]

I cannot imagine such profundity from the current dismal Trek offerings.

[@unbearable9770]

"It's his job! And you know it." One of the few times McCoy backs down Kirk.

[@whitedesertheart]

Damn that’s powerful.

[@princeeverlove]

Kirk is my Lifelong Hero

[@tarn1135]

You’d have thought Spock would’ve been more cautious about looking into the captain on the bridge. Seems like doing that in your own quarters or the library would’ve been a better idea.

[@fjccommish]

Spock: "Captain, it is not a library computer. It is a Lie Bury computer, designed to lie to us and kill us, bury us."

[@Philipwaltho]

it may be S f But the dangers of eugenics is real some people are using it now

[@MollysPa]

"Check their past histories," Mr. Spock, is redundant.

[@shiindaisuke3159]

Sometimes vengeance & justice are the same thing.

[@jv-lk7bc]

no. sometimes they can lead to a similar end, but they are not ever the same thing.

[@earlosandwich7433]

Now we know what happened at Tarsuses I-III.

[@valmirlima2746]

Porque os episodios das series nao traduzidos automaticamente di acordo com sinal do local ou pais

[@ou1l]

ever since i watched star trek I've been reading fanfics of it and the amount of times this backstory is included is just... its too tragic and i get sad over and over again lmao 😢😞

[@simplecoffee]

People love to include it in Reboot fanfics too even though it's not canon in that universe. Not sure I'm a fan of that

[@ou1l]

@@simplecoffee yesss lmao lots of stuff from tos just gets mixed in kelvin au but for me as long as the plot and characterization is compelling enough, im inhaling that shit 🤣 its the constant angst of this backstory that reallyyy gets me tho

[@simplecoffee]

@@ou1l fair enough! I'm very much not a Reboot fan, but there are way fewer TOS fics these days, which is super sad

[@hollyhock9638]

Bro him being from Iowa in the movies was such a weird 180 from the canon.

[@hollyhock9638]

Honestly though that background probably had some strong part to play in him becoming the youngest star fleet captain, I mean you walk away from that type of trauma with a permanently altered perspective on life and how you will go about living it. Given he was one of few survivors/witnesses I imagine he may have had some survivors guilt and maybe decided to dedicate living his life for those he lost and become something that mattered, become the good leader that his colony didn't have. Not sure if what I said came across the right way but I think you get the idea. (I have only seen TOS and the TOS movies I haven't gotten into the newer stuff yet so my understanding is based on TOS canon)

[@simplecoffee]

@xBonderx Yes, it was! Thank you :D

[@h.calvert3165]

Both Nimoy & Shatner being Jewish, this episode must have hit hard. No wonder everyone is taking this assignment so seriously. 🗡

[@levvisballhare2660]

Thought Spock had no emotions

[@jv-lk7bc]

Spock wants to have no emotions. He strives w/all Vulcan discipline to have no emotions. He would, at this point in his life, do anything to have no emotions and please his father and Vulcan. But he has emotions. Nimoy once said in an interview that the day he realized that (sometime in first season), was the day he got Spock.

[@144Donn]

As a kid I was not interested in this episode. Now, understanding how Nazi's, till this day try to hide and evade paying for their crimes, perhaps I will watch this again! The other episode which I thought was a sleeper as a kid, which I find incredibly insightful today is Mudd's Women. The soliloquy towards the end about what a man should truly seek in partner is worth hearing.

[@johnporcella2375]

What was it with 'Star Trek' and the works of Shakespeare?

[@Philipwaltho]

great story about eugenics

[@mikepignatelli273]

Spock was definitely suspicious of Lenore Karidian...and her father...

[@robertengland8769]

Simple logic dictates that Leonard Nimoy was the best Spock of them all.

[@altonrowell8137]

This is where cotis daughter is killing people. I remember this episode. Kerk is letting his fealings control his judgment.

[@balozhende5727]

The daughter of Kodos (spelling?) is so beautiful.

[@BadBocher]

It's logical. 😊

[@Trev0r98]

Why didn't Spock just do the Vulcan mind meld with Kirk to convince him that Karidian was Kodos?

[@jhwheuer]

It’s called Ethics.

[@ulphil08]

Why not have Spock mind meld with Kodos?

[@jv-lk7bc]

@@ulphil08 its called ethics.

[@2bituser569]

Wouldn’t there be images of Kodos to compare?

[@jv-lk7bc]

possible they wee all wiped, it was a tiny , isolated colony. seems unlikely though. one of the few things Trek failed to predict was the merger of phones and cameras .. ;)

[@tamakunminnip2117]

The picture was shown but it was from 20 years prior and the man looked more then 20 years older than then (aged by the memories of what he did most likely).

[@benquinney2]

Do your job and let go

[@CheshireCat-cm1si]

That moment when you realize that Kodos had the same plan as Thanos

[@ulphil08]

Where do you think Thanos got his idea?

[@laurasharp6914]

OMG just realised that Kodos is Hitler

[@SuperOmnicronsj44]

No, Kodos was Thanos. He killed so that there was a balance necessary for survival. Hitler wanted to eliminate entire populace and political Bolshivism, then leave the central banking system. similar only in population control for the 'greater good" There was no propaganda around Kodos, and Kodos wasn't funded by the Central Bankers. (Wall St/German Industrialists)

[@jv-lk7bc]

Kodos was every war criminal, infamous disaster leader, every schmuck waiting for the sh!t to hit the fan so he can carrry out his crackpot ideas... Pol Pot, Idi Amin, George Donner, Stewart Rhodes..

[@Slimjim260]

Blurry picture not clear disappointed, can u repair?

[@kylegreen3247]

I met Bruce Hyde. He was a substitute teacher at my high school back in 1978.

[@benquinney2]

Yamato QE class Richelieu

[@smacwhinnie]

DNA test?

[@TheGravygun]

I hope it helps you ever changing brow Mr Spock

[@TheNoiseySpectator]

Nobody had figured this out before now?

[@victorsalisbury3554]

Described camera not crazy

[@Trev0r98]

Why didn't Spock just do a Vulcan Mind Meld® and convince Kirk that he was in danger?

[@photonicus]

Because Kirk would STILL gravitate towards danger. It's how he is. Besides, he's already aware of the potential danger anyway.

[@SuperOmnicronsj44]

His Vulcan discipline required that is done only in certain logical situations. It is a personal thing to go into people's minds ..only when absolutely necessary.

[@jv-lk7bc]

oh, you know ...Vulcan ethics... Starfleet court martial

[@glenbateman5960]

One would think Spock would know all histories would be, by definition, "past" histories Weird that the writers would have him employing such a glaring redundancy. In Spock's own words, "It is illogical."

[@dcavalli9]

Why wasn't the burned, unrecognizable body DNA tested?

[@Idazmi7]

Burning destroys DNA.

[@baraxor]

If it was something like a phaser blast, there's isn't much DNA in a dusting of carbon and calcium.

[@cecilygifford4330]

There was no DNA testing in 1966. Not "they didn't know how" but "it didn't exist as a concept" at least not one the television viewers would find credible.

[@blockmasterscott]

You're talking about 1966, no one had even heard of DNA back then when the show was made. For example, records are called tapes, buttons click, displays whirl and make sounds, and so on.

[@dcavalli9]

@@blockmasterscott I know that, of course, but "Star Trek" seems to have anticipated a lot of technology but was way off with history.

[@douglaswatters7303]

Why not eat the people? Most could be saved by eating a percentage of them. Ever seen the movie "Alive"?

[@randymillhouse791]

Perhaps ....... DNA EVIDENCE...... could have helped! BONES!!!!!!!!

[@rursus8354]

This Star Trek depicts an alternative universe where all computers were Soviet made.

[@surearrow]

>>--------------------> Spoke explains Thanos to McCoy.

[@chrislapp9468]

Eugenics. "Unfortunately, he wasn't the first." Bones means Hitler. But the Nazis learned Eugenics from the US.

[@victorsalisbury3554]

Spok can I simply by pass kids future

[@victorsalisbury3554]

King royalty 1400 year old 300 ad hit hourseman

[@levvisballhare2660]

Nerds

[@victorsalisbury3554]

London usa equil moscow Kremlin 1400 again