Star Citizen & Baldur's Gate 3 Development Similarities | Control of Production = Success?

[@BradAhrens]

Dude, your production is insane and despite my perpetual hype and love for Star Citizen and love of following its development, you manage to add to it. I always feel spoiled watching your stuff.

[@SpaceTomato]

Thank you. I appreciate it. Just glad I can make this stuff for y'all 🙏🏾

[@prestiboi]

How is this guy verified with 250 subs, that kinda sketchy 💀

[@shonen84]

Larian makes me proud to be a Belgian. These guys began with a vision, spent decades in the trenches with failures and brushes with collapse, but always believed in what they do. Swen Vincke is an awesome guy. The comparison with Star Citizen and CIG is really valid, thank you for sharing!

[@prestiboi]

Yeah same.

[@SpaceTomato]

They've done a great job. It's cool to see a studio go from making its niche to blowing up the industry.

[@leopardgecko4226]

BG3 was an amazing game, one of the best I've played, and I'm hoping Star Citizen will also be that way for me as well :)

[@Kmoore888]

As long as CR is in charge, nothing will change with regard to how development is done for Start Citizen.

[@magvad6472]

Dude is a cancer, and I really think he's gunna tank the game at release for obvious reasons, blame it somehow on the backers/PU, and he'll kill the company before he ever lets it thrive. End of the day, CR is the type of leader that's great at ideation and building momentum to start a project. He is not a finisher, he is not a director, he is a producer. And it's clear from his many gaming projects he doesn't have the restraint or vision to even be in the field of telling stories and doesn't seem to care to gain those skills. He's an A+ salesman, but salesman don't make games and trying to act like he's some auteur is insane...he's just any exec at Bioware. Keep selling the dream till it collapses...but the dream can't collapse if it never begins....so you can just keep selling it. He should have stepped down as CEO years ago, he should have given someone with a vision the PU and the SQ42 property but he's way too caught up in himself to see what everyone can see. He sold the dream, the dream has enough cash to keep it chugging, but he can end that dream easily. He needs to pass the baton before he ends the race for his whole team.

[@maxvonkrieger5043]

Baldur's Gate 3's is using a working turn based RPG concept while Star Citizen RPG is completly new and daring adventure with it's own problems and new technologies that need to be developed first. It's chaotic but to be expected.

[@alexpetrov8871]

>is completly new and daring adventure Only in some multiplayer aspects. Many gameplay consepts SC tries to figure out are already realised years ago in other successful projects.

[@maxvonkrieger5043]

@@alexpetrov8871 Ofcourse some elements are but SC has well worked out ship interiors, tractor beams and some other new technologies. But this is all multiplayer which makes it much much harder to make compared to single player games.

[@user-zj4rg9kn1c]

@@alexpetrov8871 a lot of what SC is struggling on is Technology based, not gameplay based. they're building brand new tech from scratch for several components of the game that havent been done before.

[@vik12D]

Adding Original Sin 2 / Baldurs Gate 3 elements into Star Citizen would be fantastic. I'd rather see ship armor and utility slots implemented first.

[@TennysonEStead]

You guys, this is a REALLY great video and a strong contribution to the game's development. I'm guessing that more than one team at CIG is using this video as a jumping off point for discussion, and it does a great job of recontextualizing the development process for people outside the project. This one is really, really special. I'm definitely gonna be re-upping my sub this month, as soon as I can - and in the meantime, I hope you both are well!

[@SpaceTomato]

I hope they enjoy it over there! Thank you for the kind words, we appreciate you Tennyson. 🙏🏾

[@TennysonEStead]

@@SpaceTomato You are most welcome, and likewise!

[@Spike.SpiegeI]

Love your takes and information, let's hope SC can learn a thing or two from Baldur's Gate 3 success. Your production quality is top tier, as always. Thanks so much for what you do!

[@SpaceTomato]

Thank you for supporting these :) Glad you enjoyed it.

[@JDJ1213]

This was such a great video. Your commentary and docu-style videos are at such a high professional level nowadays. Great job

[@SpaceTomato]

Thank you. These are my favorite videos to make, for sure.

[@thechroniclesofcriss942]

so they're like games from before the industry became corporate and subjected to committee management?

[@SpaceTomato]

It's really crappy seeing how money driven the industry has become in such a small amount of time.

[@Vioblight]

Fantasy and Sci Fi are the best genres period

[@Davide-B.]

I really like your short video. Keep it up. Thank you

[@SpaceTomato]

Thank you!

[@thisSaint]

"Strong team, stable management, shared focused goal, active test environment " ftw, hopefully :)

[@louhodo5761]

And Larian did it in less time with less people and less money. Tells you how a focused dedicated dev team can do with strong leadership.

[@SpaceTomato]

Not sure if by "did it" you meant accomplish what the company set out to do. But Larian has been building their game engine for over 24 years, and is estimated to have over $1b in revenue. Not sure about employee numbers, but trying to compare how "well" these companies have done compared to each other is an incredibly complicated thing to try and do.

[@louhodo5761]

@SpaceTomato there is no way you believe the engine that is used on Baldur's Gate 3, Divinity Original Sin 2 or even 1 are 24 years old. That would be like saying CIG has been working with a 25 year old engine because Cryteks first engine was created in the late 90s and the engine in use now is just the same engine modified slightly. I will give credit where credit is due. CIG turned chicken shit into chicken salad with the changes they made to the engine, thus making it their own. But that was something they HAD to do because of poor choices at first and then the inevitable CR scope creep.

[@NomadicHavoc]

Such a unique perspective. LOVE your content because of the insane production value 😁

[@SpaceTomato]

Thanks for watching! It's fun to make these more opinionated videos.

[@eltreum1]

Good video. Another big advantage Larian had besides experienced devs with refined tools and game engine: They were porting a turn-based tabletop RPG with 40 years of refined game mechanics, equipment, and NPCs with included lore to draw from. All they mostly had to do is make good stories and art with minimal bugs and good UI/UX. CIG had to figure it all out as they went. CIG had to sometimes change plans because of technical feasibility reasons or seeing how the players actually used the system vs the way the devs thought would play out. Larian also didn't have to pay for and manage multiplayer server hosting and internet on 4 continents and cobble their WIP to a playable-ish state every version from start to final release. A good project to compare SC to that started around the same time partially crowd funded with DLC is MechWarrior Online beta. While MW had years of lore and assets to draw from, they had to rebalance a turn-based dice-roll game into an online multiplayer arena twitch FPS with growing pains and missteps like SC. What they got right compared to SC is they focused on the server tech and stable net code first with a very limited easy to balance set of vehicles and enough smaller maps to showcase the variety of terrain environmental effects. After they refined stuff to polished beta, they added a new mechanic with a balanced set of vehicles to leverage/counter it or a new map if it's an environmental mechanic. There were times we were tired of the same 12 mechs and partial selection of gear we knew from the tabletop game but was fun with things to look forward to. IMO MechWarrior online had the best approach to selling skins at least the years I played. While each mech had a special bespoke skin from lore you could buy or not using one of the free base patterns. They had DLC pattern schemes available with unlockable additional color palette options you could buy. You bought camo patterns, decals, and color preset palettes that worked on all mechs once unlocked. This allowed enough freedom to make a style you liked without crazy looking things that broke immersion or exploit a game mechanic.

[@Billy-bc8pk]

I was about to make the exact same comment as you -- that Larian was drawing from a lot of pre-established infrastructure, and Baldur's Gate 3 was not isolated, it was built on top of their refactors and engine upgrades since the first Divinity. So whenever people like to compare a sequel or recent outing to CIG's dev time, you actually have to compare it to when they first started building out the engine. And oftentimes the dev times are usually about the same.

[@Victini0510]

​@@Billy-bc8pk yeah I mean it's literally in the title: Baldur's Gate *3*, as well as many shipped games in the exact same genre. The closest legacy Star Citizen has to build on is Wing Commander or Freelancer, both made by completely different people decades ago, or modern contemporaries like Elite Dangerous, No Man's Sky, or even games like GTA V and RDR2. Though really, there's nothing else like Star Citizen. There's not really a comparison to be made here imo.

[@SANHoloX]

Ah, a blissful video. As expected. Perfection.

[@SpaceTomato]

Always just needs a little 🤌🏾 Glad you enjoyed 😄

[@TheJudgeo7]

Love you videos, mate. You are the Xanax I so much need after one too many SaltyMike's ones.

[@SpaceTomato]

Love some Mike content, I actually think he hits a happy medium. Glad you watch and enjoy both 😄

[@malismo]

Another great documentary level video, your voice is perfect for voice over, ST.

[@jeremydardenne2896]

Just discovered your channel, I am glad. Banger!

[@SpaceTomato]

Thanks for checking it out. Hope you enjoy the rest o7

[@SolarWindsRider]

The biggest lesson CIG should learn - players like games that stay in early access for 3 years more than games that stay in early access for 12 years.

[@MEYH3M]

That's not really fair because Star Citizen was early access from the get go and BG3 was released in early access 3 years into development. BG3 had a 7 year development cycle, and Star Citizen had 10. it's not that far off tbh.

[@SpaceTomato]

I think the biggest things they should learn is not to chase what people deem is best based on other studios. Do your own things that you believe in, and maybe you'll succeed big time. But Larian seems to show a dedication to little compromise.

[@Ghazlawl]

BG3 is a good game no doubt but I’m not as blown away by it as everyone else is because it’s basically Divinity 3. I absolutely love Larian Studios and I hope this helps propel them even further.

[@Tainted-Soul]

Ive been playing Baldur's Gate 3 with a friend Running through the game one evening at a time when we can , ok it isnt a space Sim but it is a great game for sure just the amount of stuff you can do. eg we found a door hidden from normal game play and it sent us deep into the depths of someplace and we spent 20 or so hours just exploring this side quest we found that nobody gave us . but now some 40 more hours in we have found out a mission is to go help this person to get something ! oh dear well we sort of killed him 40 hours before LOL we did make out we didnt know that he was dead though playing it cool like

[@SpaceTomato]

An amazing game it sounds like!

[@MeSoTrashed]

I think you meant frame, not scaffolding. Scaffolding is what you put up to work on parts that are out of reach and is removed when completed.

[@SpaceTomato]

It may not be the perfect analogy lol Something that's built in order to be used to build something else

[@jossiwales]

2:48 "So when this game landed from a studio that many didn't recognize..." bruh, Larian Studios' Divinity: Original Sin 2 sold 7.5 million copies making it the BEST SELLING CRPG OF ALL TIME up until Baldur's Gate 3... It got the 2017 GOTY award by a landslide and simultaneously won 2017 Best Gameplay award and best PC Exclusive award. It got the 2018 BAFTA award, Nominated for 2 different 2018 NAVGTR awards and got more headline, front page, and review attention than any other game the year of its release. Don't act like they're some nameless studio that didn't PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that it could handle the continuation of the D&D franchise.

[@SpaceTomato]

They aren't a nameless studio, I just saw a lot of people not recognize them. I'm just reporting on my anecdotes from casual games I talked to. It's different from something like Bungie, Activision, Sony, or Ubisoft. It's okay, I know they're a big deal.

[@xtoorgaming3982]

“This Channel doesn’t cover fantasy genre “ Proceeds to star citizen 😂😂😂. Science fiction and fantasy are always in the same section of libraries. Good content as usual

[@GaidalKain]

Wow, Tomato! Great vid. I LOVE BG3 and the parallels are definitely there. Great analysis! Sharing.....

[@SpaceTomato]

Thank you. I appreciate it :)

[@daltonv5206]

Imagine a Larian/Star Citizen universe crossover. It'd be the Mass Effect we all deserve

[@Jezato]

The Larian System - you can't fly past the outter most space station, you have to swap to a space dragon :D

[@intothevoid2046]

What SC can learn from BG3 is that there are still a large number of solo players who like to play solo and pay money for games that do not force them to team up with randomers who often just play solo but in a group anyway. CIG needs to address this since many original backer backed with the prospect of PvE sliders and private servers....

[@SpaceTomato]

They have. They are developing a cinematic single player narrative game in which you don't have to team up with others. It's called Squadron 42 and it likely releases next year!

[@vectieba]

I watch a lot of content on KZbin, and it is few and far between that I see a mind like yours. I love the way you think and how level headed you are about things. The intelligence shines through, either that or Mrs Tomato is a very good script writer lol.

[@SpaceTomato]

That's incredibly kind of you. Star Citizen is really interesting to me, and the more I follow it the more interesting it gets as a game but also just a project in general. It's even cooler to find parallels that build on that, like BG3! Thank you for watching! :)

[@Gary_The_Metro]

As much as I like star citizen, production is not controlled by devs. It is controlled by marketing. CiG is an aggressively predatory and scummy corporation when it comes to ship sales. from FOMO to throwing balance out the window to sell a ship quickly and then follow it up with a light "nerf" to appease people who call out the egregious unbalance.

[@WolfofnoStreet]

It's not that complicated: Larian makes money by finishing a game. CIG makes money by not finishing a game.

[@SpaceTomato]

It's not complicated for folks who view everything in absolutes, that's fair.

[@WolfofnoStreet]

@@SpaceTomato Are you calling me a Sith?

[@martinmccarty5856]

Sir Space Tomato 🍅... an excellent job, brief, synopsis and contrast/comparison. A fan of yours and big sci-fi/fantasy gamer since the 1980s. Baldur's Gate is one of my favorite and I truly enjoyed your stylish way to bring this comparison to life. I have at times been critical of the devs of Star Citizen and they sometimes take that too personally... I wonder and hope they take your comments to heart and well. Anyway, awesome video and thanks 👌 👏!

[@SpaceTomato]

Thank you! It's really interesting to see the similarities in various parts of the industry. Them you hear discussions about how a game SHOULD be and realize there are quite a few ways to teach the same goal. Hopefully CIG can nail it like Larian did. Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed it o7

[@AccidentalFriendlyFire]

I must have misunderstood something. It sounded like you said they last worked on the Divinity series two decades ago, but my introduction to Larian was their using Kickstarter to do Divinity: Original Sin, and then they did the sequel to that a few years later. That launched shortly before we started hearing about BG3.

[@SpaceTomato]

Yes, they started well before that with Divine Divinity in 2002. More info here on the timeline of the series: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinity_(series) I may have misspoke and said they last worked on that, but it should have been they started working with that and continued on.

[@Henkums]

Great video as always

[@EverGameStudios]

is it just me or Marketing get the biggest jumps precentege wise between all the employees in the graph for Cloud Imperium?

[@112523]

Step one. Have a realistic idea. Step 2. Have an actual achievable endgoal

[@mrdashin8323]

I've been apart of start citizen since the very beginning. All i can say is that they are always moving forward. Their are set backs and in some cases reversals. But over all it is coming together. Faster and faster it seems. It's funny when i got my first ship. I wasn't married, my beard and hair didn't have white, and i didn't have kids. Now I'm wondering if I'll get to play sc in vr with a omni directional treadmill.

[@oracka2289]

I love both games but as for the studios i cant say the same. I could go on something of a rant but i'll put it down to one key factor . Larian say something and i believe them . CiG say something and i have major doubts or i know its a dream for 5+ years at best .

[@AcheliusDecimus]

The issue with SC it is a Live service versus a one off release. However, Squadron 42 will be the proof of this concept you are alluding to with BG3. I would urge you to play it, for BG3 is the greatest game of our current decade. Why I say SC is different, is due to marketing who defines how things are in many ways. Until Squadron 42 drops I have no true faith CIG can deliver as big as Larian did. As Larian has had games before to pave the way. CIG has yet to release one. Larians lore has also matured and CIGs lore is tame and lacks debt so far from what I have seen. It is only focused on the war and there will be not much variety in replaying it.

[@michaelgiertz-rath7994]

Guess it doesn't hurt if a developer is its own publisher. In the old days it was like that. ID Software, for instance, was ID Software. They not only made games, they also sold them. Westwood Studios, same story. They made Command & Conquer and basically defined how a proper RTS should work. Also old Activision with old Call of Duty was awesome. That's all past now, 'though. The "good ol' days" where days when we had no micro transactions or loot boxes. We paid for a game and got a game. Sometimes the game got expansions, called addons. Today, you can't get a game without a day-one DLC, a season pass or worse - live service. Okay, we had live service games in the early 2000 too, called subscriptions and you got membership to a MMO, like WoW or DAoC or LotRO. I mean, that's the "good" live service branch in gaming history, long before "free to play" turned nearly MMOG into a paradise for gold farmers. I got BG3 and although it doesn't 100% fit my taste, as I am a SciFi nerd as well (Mass Effect is perfect for me, and so is Star Citizen or Starfield), but I can see a glimpse of "old day gaming". The other option to get that feeling is to get indy games with some high quality standards. Also, one of my favorites as it's 100% nerd and 100% complex is the X series from Egosoft. X3 in particular is noteworthy, but X4 Foundations, the current installation of the series, is really great. Sure, they also earn their money by extra DLC, but given the fact the game is still developed and currently in version 6.2 (!) with version 7.0 ahead, it says something. That plus a massive modding community. A nerd's dream and way, way too heavy for the common player. Star Citizen? Well, I hope it comes with some easier elements for the casual player to fall in love with, but some extremely complex stuff as well. Running a multicrew ship should always be a teamplay experience, no matter what. You gonna need an engineer to keep it running, gunners for your turrets, a pilot and a missile controller. You may also need someone crewing your snub fighter too. I hope we gonna see some really complex (and nerdy) SciFi elements here, based on systematic gameplay instead of scripts. So if half of your ship suddenly lost power, a power line may be distrupted instead of a random god decision. A nerd's dream. Old day gaming - despite being next gen gaming :-)

[@Jamesflco]

A solid video as always.

[@ZeRoCoOlxx1]

two massively different teams, one never lied to the players and became game of the year, the other, not once since its creation has it meet a deadline nor even meet its promised gameplay features, looking at you. 3.18 patch. ill believe when it happens, and honestly the current patch has me questioning weather or not these devs in sc even play there on game, or are they still making squadron 42.. I'm tired of the excuses boss.

[@alwayssearching4760]

Just got a quote on my SC account. Going to sell sell sell! We deserve a better space game

[@SpaceTomato]

Good luck!

[@sneakyc4713]

CIG devs probably follow the Martketting and UX design team ... devs are just pawns

[@AtlasGaming4k]

When you leave development up to devs… you get no release version.

[@leiden5110]

Just don’t make the marketing team in charge and have play testers who understand what fun and non repetitive tedium is

[@fajarn7052]

As a fan of their works and turn-based RPG in general, the quality was to be expected, but the reception was not. It kinda baffled me in a way. None of my friends own Divinity series, but the suddenly raving about BG3. It felt surreal, like I was like that too but internally..but now its mainstream, I kinda don't want to do it haha. Anyway, I support CIG in their endeavor. I just hope they manage their priorities better. If they felt they have to sell certain ships/vehicles, I wish they would do it according to their capabilities, time frame, and vision. Don't just retcon an established plan just to sell vehicle with infinite respawn.

[@id_avalon3451]

the problem with CIG is that Chris decides at the end of the day, and so far he is unable to produce fun and worthwhile gameplay.

[@myob94]

Biggest difference is baulders gate actually had to be a product to make money hand over fist. CIG just has to keep the pie high enough in the sky to make their money

[@SpaceTomato]

You're not the first person to say this. I feel people are missing the point that this video is about how money is used, not how money is made.

[@myob94]

@@SpaceTomato how money is used is inherently linked to how money is made. If your risk is 0 as well as your accountability (no board, no studio, no need to repay financing) you create a breeding ground for sloppy development. There is a reason why we’re 12 years down the road for star citizen with no clear end in sight. The same reasons why BG studio could never be so irresponsible. Star citizen could fail tomorrow and chris will be just as rich as he is now. BG3 HAD to deliver a fantastic timely product.

[@myob94]

@@SpaceTomato I would actually love to have a conversation with you on the monetization and state of development in star citizen. I’ve been following it for years and it’s very concerning.

[@SpaceTomato]

@@myob94 I understand where you're coming from, though I never really consider Chris's wealth when it comes to the conversation, unless he's jumping tax brackets because of profit off the top of their small margins, I think it'd ultimately be the downfall of his name one way or the other. You make a valid point that Larian and CIG have done things differently to make money, and even how they spend it, but ultimately I was more interested in the actual development similarities for this essay. We will have to see if they can continue to make money even after the pie has left the sky!

[@myob94]

@@SpaceTomato totally get it and great video man. I appreciate your content. I guess my default mode of analyzing anything, especially in profit centered industry has to center profit loss and the monetization into the “why”. Appreciate your content.

[@malachi4228]

Great video

[@magvad6472]

Idk I feel like comparing "putting a bunch of money into a tried and true formula that just makes it obscenely large in scale and polish" to "putting a bunch of money into a vision that fluctuates with the seasons as its vision is just some words on paper with no real idea if it will even be fun or not let alone feasible at scale and none of it was anything but a checklist of cool scifi things"...is kind of ridiculous. This isn't about slow burn as a strategy...Larian made a CRPG that they already basically made before but just put a bunch of money into it. CIG is trying to make a game that has never been made before while also building another game that has never been made before. BG3s world was already built, it's team had already proved their skill at writing an RPG, and they had shown they can make a compelling and refreshing take on that genre. We still aren't even sure if Chris Roberts has the capacity to design a game that isn't just Wing Commander with more fidelity. And to many people that would have been fine...500 million ago. Get your 200 million blockbuster budget, make your blockbuster movie game nostalgia fest....maybe make another if it does well. But no, he said "lets make the sequel but it's actually just the first game we are remaking it over again" Also prior to BG3 we got Divinity Original Sin and its sequel which built the mold and made a clear idea for what BG3 was only at a much larger scale. They did this within the timeframe of Star Citizen's developement as well as them completing the production on their magnum opus at a 300 million price tag. 3 games...1 being 300 million megaproject. We have zero projects at 700 million. Most of the money for SQ42 initially went likely to casting with a stacked cast billed to not only act out major scenes but indulgently tasked with even speaking out basic quest and mission objectives with lots of sci-fi mumbo jumbo to boot...fans of Chris Roberts said he had "connections"...no he had YOUR MONEY in his wallet. BG3 hired smaller time actors with some presence in the industry but not oscars billing level pay scales. Meanwhile they couldn't bother to pay for an Oscar tier writer (the writing credits for the staff are all flop Ctier movies) and so it'll probably be a total waste of talent and be 100% grilled by gaming media for its indulgence, lack of diversity, and lack of purpose. The headline will say "overfunded Call of Duty campaign with pretty good ship combat cost 800 million dollars" and that'll be it. Maybe it'll headline for showing that "black people I guess don't exist in the year 2954" because that's the state of modern media and he's 10 years too late. That's bascially SQ42 legacy before it even drops. Maybe they can really show us something special but I just doubt it. The press is going to GRILL SQ42 into a crisp. It doesn't have the luxury of coming from a legacy studio that can defend it from criticism due to fear of being cut off from future titles so it's just going to get roasted for being too expensive for not much. I just dont think you can compare the two, and I think by comparing the two you've done a pretty decent job of completely obscurring what Larian did right and what CIG has done wrong so far. They've invested in all the wrong places and so they are still to this day begging for more cash. Larian stayed within their means and built a highly polished game they knew they could make and hit it out of the park....they just took their time. Star Citizen immediately left the plane of reality that gaming was on and said they could define the next generation of gaming and tech and then got perpetually stuck to a charity model of crowdsourcing and dream selling that has costed its fanbase multiple times what Larian cost to make BG3. And to be clear here the cost of SQ42 is probably in the 500 Million mark at bare minimum. The PU clearly has had a skeleton crew running it and at most the engineering teams are the only ones getting paid much as the rest keep leaving. Is CIG running the model we should be proud of? No, it's a disgrace. It's overly expensive, it lacks results, it lacks clarity of vision, and Chris is just a salesman cosplaying as an auteur storyteller. TLDR You can't compare them. Larian just put 300 million into their existing formula backed by a major IP that would ensure marketing power. SQ42 and PU are just entirely different animals. Outside of maybe how linear SQ42 will be and in turn likely it's rollercoaster "movie game" structure....it MIGHT have a chance but only in that it can be made....not that the writing will be worth watching 80 hours of a story for. Im sorry I don't care if you got Meryl Streep to play a random mugger if the writing ain't good it's just gunna look canned. PU however...is just them inventing a new style of game that is loosely modeled off a smattering of other games with none of things those game had that made their formulas work...and then hoping all the random SCIFI ideas come together before Players give up and stop throwing cash at the project because it's still the only competitor in a dead market.

[@SpaceTomato]

Well, it was worth a try! I just wanted to cover some of the similarities I saw. Understandable if you feel those are overshadowed.

[@alex_panthea]

Well done on a very well put together and thought out video Mr. Tomato

[@EverGameStudios]

I still think they should of done real branding in game for big cash, like having mecdonalds, bk, pizza hut, Starbucks etc.. "renting" store fronts in game instead of the made up branding they have. that could bring big cash into the company in my opinion. just like renting ad space and such.

[@Anachroschism]

We just need to stop buying games from all these big publishing companies, that only care about their shareholders, and not the product or the players. Don't enable them to keep buying up good studios and destroying them through terrible sequels and excessive monetisation of our beloved titles. There are so many good games out there now from independents and indie developers. Games, made by gamers, for gamers. Not games made by CEOs for investors.

[@magvad6472]

I dont know we keep complaining about studios upping prices and microtranscations and nickle and diming us but then we are in the same breathe forking up 500 dollars, the cost of an entire console...to pay for an IMAGE of a ship with the hopes they make it. Like, Idk, if there is one model I don't really want see followed it's the CIG model, I'm glad it became too big to fail so that we got a cool space game but like, if this was the norm we'd be fucked. Especially when there is no guarantee CIG is going to do anything but charge us even more for further participation in the game and further nickle and dime us for their next titles with almost no thanks or compensation if the game does well. Like it's an investor model with no dividends, and they treat their investors not like investors...but customers.

[@Anachroschism]

@@magvad6472 How is spending 100 bucks to buy a ship to fund a game without a publisher, any different from paying 100 bucks for a game from a publisher, to also receive nothing back? Personally, I'd prefer to avoid publishers and investors as much as possible, as those two things are a common problem with games pushed too soon, with missing content and excessive microtransactions, which is the reward. The only downside, I see, is the wait.

[@mukicare1977]

I am not worried. In few years, AI will make better games as we play now in no time.

[@Gadubadish]

once in a generation culmination of dedication 🤣

[@SpaceTomato]

Console generation, not human. There's usually only one or 2 games that can do what Baldur's Gate did!

[@riosasin3086]

Baldur's Gate won't be an excuse for Star Citizen's horrible mismanagement they don't create ship first then gameplay later. Normal game companies be led by a salesman, Larian be led by a gamer, but Star Citizen is led by a want-to-be movie director. The point is to know what consumers want that make a difference, not the executives want same with Helldiver

[@holyone2668]

Good vid

[@alexpetrov8871]

Would've, could've, should've. A very vague topic, good for times when there is no actual news to discuss.

[@Shawnsrumi]

Cool story, bro

[@Eagle6Airsoft]

Marketing team controls star citizen. These two companies couldn’t be more different. Star citizen prioritises months of dev time to make sure a new ship is available at sale time to sell. What ever we get is what’s left of dev time.

[@LucidStrike]

The ship department is only 28 people, out of 1200 or so, and I don't think any of them developed server meshing or handled the UI reworks...

[@Eagle6Airsoft]

@@LucidStrike 28 on the ship team, 1172 on the marketing team.

[@magvad6472]

I mean what did you expect when Chris Roberts is just a salesman, of course he understands the power of marketing...that's all he's ever survived on. Also the Ship team honestly needs to be larger, and the fact they can't prioiritize keeping staff on that team (half of them quit) and can't even replace them or build up enough to sustain the literal ONE thing thing that makes their company any income? Is beyond me. Because unlike Marketing trailers for ships...the ships themselves are at least gameplay.

[@Eagle6Airsoft]

@@magvad6472 I don’t think the ship team needs to be larger, it consisted of 100 strong and “there most established” pipeline in there words. At one point. It’s obviously a concern if they have haemorrhaged the entire bmm team. And others. I know some big names from the past are no longer there. I get that staff need to shop about for skills and pay rises but a company then has to replace them, which they are struggling to do. I would imagine they lost the entire pipeline including those at the top that would have done any training. Remember recently they said on live that they couldn’t put the lights on a new ships due to lack of time. The one guy making it just didn’t have any more time. That’s a lot of pressure for 4 guys on a live q&a to put on to one dev that isn’t even present that actually made it. I would actually question where the 1000 strong staff actually are, i believe the marketing team is 200 strong. Including whole teams just to create marketing cgi videos and b roll footage, including those crappy fake ass trailers they like to put out each patch. I think it’s just a company propped up by a marketing team, and requires a reevaluation from the top. I manage by knowing every job and then making sure if staff have a problem I can answer that question. People shouldn’t be getting promoted to senior or lead positions if they cannot infact lead or train. In my opinion they should prioritise ship reworks, and the last remaining ship tech. Make these gold standards the last gold standards, and introduce a new sale of old ships, cig assumes they won’t get new money, but people would love to see a caterpillar rework. Don’t just keep making new ships, it’s 145 ships that need components, resource system and armour tech and balancing… that’s a lot of work. Don’t add to the work load just becuase marketing tells you too. Manage!

[@alexpetrov8871]

1:50 "good Bioware style" - lol, Inquisition was not a "good Bioware style" in any way ))) DAO was, and it's combat was intended to be played as turn based isometric RPG with possibility to do hee-hoo arcade play on easy difficulty.

[@cmdrls212]

The best thing about squadron is star citizen gets priority. So a flop of squadron is actually a massive positive as it will for cig to pay attention to SC or go bankrupt. I'm almost sure squadron will be a massive flop to match cyberpunk, or even redfall. It is basically inevitable as it cannot live to the hype.

[@Carwash2]

Uh small problem with that logic. Nobody outside of the star citizen community is going to trust star citizen if Squadron 42 isn't a great game. It's potential player base will be completely crippled.

[@magvad6472]

@@Carwash2 I dont think the impact of the COD campaign quality has anything to do with the sales numbers of Warzone. SQ42 isn't going to fail on the merits of its "fidelity" it's going to fail on the merits of its writing and quest design which have not been proven to be good. It's only going to be further more embarassing when they shelled out millions of dollars to get Gary Oldman to perform a speech in a cutscene but can't pay their ship devs enough for them to not jump ship....or worse the speech isn't even good. A multiplayer environment could give a shit about writing and quest design in most majorly successful multiplayer games is minimal at best, it's always systemic multiplayer that builds big markets.

[@toyahinata]

This is actually what makes a good community member, its a sane person not a bootlicker or white knight because unfortunally, star citizen as of right now has more bad then good.

[@TurretSyndrome]

It's funny to see "normie" gamers invading the space of gaming and now believing themselves to be someone of great knowledge about games and lecturing others, be it developers or gamers. No, Star Citizen doesn't have much to learn from Larian, because Larian themselves haven't learned much from themselves despite decades of committing the same missteps and mistakes that they made before and even during BG3. This is putting aside the fact that Larian had the advantage of a mature game engine which was used to create two games before BG3. Beyond all the spectacle, the hype, the weight of the IP and the default "masterpiece" scoring by urinalists and high-profile youtubers, if you actually properly played the game, you'd understand that the game has a ridiculous number of flaws, issues and outright broken mechanics that still persist to this day. People like you can't see that because you have a casual perception of Larian's games while you've put in hundreds of hours into Star Citizen. Classic other side green-grassing effect. To put into perspective, I started following Larian all the way back from the Divinity 2 Ego Draconis days. Larian's always made the same mistakes. If you have the Divinity 2 Developer's Cut, watch the documentary of their journey where they literally do the same things game after game, all the way to the present. Their quest lines are always broken with faux choice mechanics that lead the player nowhere (there's one just 10 hours into BG3). Their writing is subpar and it has remained so in BG3. They always obsess over the first "act" in all their games and pour too many resources, manpower, and thinking into it, leaving the rest of the game bland and visibly rushed (BG3 Act 3). The only thing that has changed; is that they now virtue signal and pander to a miniscule, pathetic and delusional group of people who constantly crave the rest of the world's attention. So no, I wouldn't tell CIG to follow in Larian's footsteps at all as the only lesson they will learn from them is "spectacle". That will probably have them go back to making fake trailers and "vertical slices" for every CitizenCon again. Just thought of this as well. CIG has been ostracized by both gamers and urinalists alike for more than a decade. The urinalists especially hated the progress and perseverance of CIG and wanted to see all of it burned down. While Larian gained the urinalist favor because of how casual and small of scope their Original Sin games were. Also I watched your entire video and you fail to state anything definitive that is "learnable" for CIG. You just state the differences and the similarities and end with "let's hope".

[@Vioblight]

One is single purchase, 1-2year alpha, amazing experience, the passion bleed from the voice actors, every play through is different, an actually released game. One is a never ending Alpha, with zero story or dialog, the money was taken and put into a single player game with chapter one promised in 2014 that hadn’t released a decade later, ship marketing company, with a focus on inconvenient realism, with the highest peaks and lowest valleys, full of confusion of how the game will works with a lack of communication, players are the bug testers, patches launch with duping exploits that aren’t removed because ship sale event…, sometimes SC is fun but what the fuck is all this and why doesn’t the player base call them out to improve everything for us and them, oh it’s because we have to defend the game we spend tons of money on and the game that has no competitors…. What a joke this all is. Yet I still hope it’s good wow…

[@SpaceTomato]

Right but that's not what the video is about :( It's about how they control the development of their projects, not the games themselves

[@Vioblight]

@@SpaceTomato fair I’m focused on the games. I’m not very interested in the dev process, glad you enjoy it. Just felt like venting some frustrations. Something said in the beginning set me off seeing these games compared. I see what you’re saying and always love the content. This games development is a rollercoaster of emotions for me love and hate.

[@artsolano6762]

The cry engine was a poor choice. It was an engine made for stand alone workstations with high resolution. It was never designed for MMOs. That cost CIG some time when they finally dumped it for LumberYard.

[@MEYH3M]

LumberYard Is Cryengine. and Star citizen uses then own engine now, even tho it's based on both.

[@artsolano6762]

@@MEYH3MCryEngine was made by CryTek. Amazon made Lumberyard. CIG made StarEngine at first on top of CryEngine and then later replaced it with Lumberyard. That cost them a lot of time.

[@bobgrunsdigger]

Wait...Mark Hamill is in Star Citizen? Guess I'm gonna pass on that. He has produced too much cringe in the past few years.

[@ablazedguy]

Star Citizen is run by marketing, not devs 😒

[@LucidStrike]

Then why haven't marketing departments at other firms produced anything like 3.23?

[@SimpHarderPlz]

Because ablazedguy doesn't understand what a pledge is

[@gravity00x]

baldursgate was mid asf and overhyped because it was the first game in a decade that didnt nickel and dime people for a fully built and finished rpg/campaign.

[@PoleVault]

I think ai will become more advanced and make a better game before star citizen releases

[@voxdeus]

700 million dollars says otherwise

[@PoleVault]

@@voxdeus 700 million dollars just proves my point even more

[@hawkzulu5671]

@@PoleVaultSure.. 'Ai' will achieve sentience just decide to make a space game

[@PoleVault]

@@hawkzulu5671 no. Ai will become an advanced tool making sc obsolete

[@hawkzulu5671]

@@PoleVault Other games and game engines too? ..or Ai just has a vendetta against SC? Does Ai have a roadmap, version numbers and a plan sketched out - or will it be like the terminator movie and one day ai just declares war, to our surprise?

[@jonanamar8503]

Balder’s Gate is finished. Star Citizen so far is not…

[@Nemoticon]

No shit sherlock... no one is suggesting otherwise. Do you even understand the context of the video??

[@Empty12345]

Thank you for this information that everybody knew already

[@MEYH3M]

And the sky is blue.

[@tommeegunn9318]

@@MEYH3M Unless it's cloudy :)

[@mikithekynd]

BG3 isn't finished. Even devs stated so. There's still a ton of cut content they chose not to finish (especially in Act 3) because they chose to put the game out, which is a marketing/publishing heavy choice

[@TheTrueEmrys]

The glazing is wild lol Baldurs Gate 3 most overrated game of the decade 😂 people starving for good rpgs and theey go ravenous for a game that has been done 10,000 times.

[@brianfury9790]

i sadly think CIG have gone woke and wokesters cant make cool stuff, thats what happening to SC. you see more and more pink haird men and rainbow flags CIG, thats the start of the end. MM split there fans in two, old simmers vs new newbs. that when well for disney. i dident buy anything this sale.. thats a first for me and i plan to keep my wallet close till MM is gone again. look at the CIG devs.. they are all kids.. so MM is made by noob for noobs. sad realy

[@Empty12345]

What does pink hair & rainbows have to do with anything? Grow up big boy 😂

[@brianfury9790]

@@Empty12345 i am grown and we see it every day, its a sign of a inside rot. just look at disneys starwars made by feminist and pink haird men, nothing good have come out of it. we see it all over hollywood, and CR is hollywood to. CIG have gone woke.. MM, landing splines, the speed limiter all thise things are made up by clueless idiots with no grasp on how a throttle works.. im guessing you have pink hair to little girl?

[@tommeegunn9318]

When you see people are all kids, it just means you are getting old! Don't be afraid it is coming for all of us

[@brianfury9790]

@@Empty12345 other than kill every franchise it touches? i dunno dumping quality for woke ideas might not be so smart

[@Empty12345]

​@@brianfury9790 Even if they used the rainbow flags, who tf cares? They've only done it in a couple of hilarious videos. Those who feel it is important can be happy in their little bubble lol It has nothing to do with you or me or any of us who don't care. It hasn't taken anything from you either lmao It's a different thing if they started to change the game due to it, but that hasn't happened yet, so you should curb your behavior because it makes you look like a clueless teenager lmaooo

[@Legendary_Tales]

Wait... Isn't Star Citizen as an MMORPG called Squadron 42?