Star Trek III: The Search for Spock Retrospective/Review - Star Trek Retrospective, Part 4

[@paulware4701]

The destruction of the Enterprise was one of the most heart-rending moments in Trek history. You could hear the stunned disbelief in the cinema when I saw it on a first showing.

[@sandal_thong8631]

Possibly. But it was just a stunt. And like bringing back Spock, they brought the Enterprise back at the end of the next movie.

[@Paul_1971]

@@sandal_thong8631 But it wasn't the same enterprise though - losing the original MEANT something.

[@sandal_thong8631]

@@Paul_1971 If they had gotten a scout-class ship with a crew of 12-20 and did special ops missions, then that might have meant something. If Yeoman Rand had been the yeoman turned into a block and crushed, in "By Any Other Name" never to return, that would have meant something. This? No. Just a short-term stunt. Same with them parking inside the space station. If they parked outside, their stealing of the Enterprise wouldn't have meant more than Spock stealing it in _The Menagerie, Part 1._

[@Paul_1971]

@@sandal_thong8631 Jesus why can't you just enjoy it for what it is & stop putting a downer on it for other people who do enjoy it.

[@BeDangerousGroup]

We now have the luxury of knowing the entire ST story line and can now watch these movies back to back. However, you have to remember that back in the early 80s, most people did not have a VHS player or cable and other than STARLOG magazine, we had no way of knowing which direction the story was going to go in. So to fans, Spock was dead for 1 1/2 - 2 years until you could go and see ST III. So I think the return of Spock only seems cheap now, but back then after a long time of having no Spock, it was like, "Thank God he's back".

[@soupful]

How very true, I figured Spock's conciousness survived to Saavik or something else. But Spock's Gensis rebirth and David Marcus murder was a true cheat as of Enterprise demise.

[@RominaJones]

That's exactly how it was. I remember he was gone and thinking it was over for Spock, how could they do that!

[@shep9231]

Yeah. tell me abut it. The fans are saying the same thing with the return of a dear friend in Star Trek Picard. I won't mention names :)

[@patrickhamilton6677]

Thats not how you look at it. Not even close. When you are involved in a story the time between movies doesn't count at all

[@Zinj1000]

Why do people leak spoilers? Just spite and pettiness? Foolishness.

[@PathsUnwritten]

"They needed to do something different." Pitch guy: *So hear me out -- -- time travelling whales!*

[@MINKIN2]

Producer guy: Time travelling whales are TIGHT!

[@therugburnz]

Time traveling Pregnant whales. Yeah, shoot it.

[@michiganjack1337]

@@MINKIN2 air tight. 🥁

[@KelsaRavenlock]

And now all starships have dolphin crew members overseen by a pair of whales. Cetacean Ops.

[@FilmThePoliceFTP]

Hey I like the voyage home... it may be because it’s the first ST film I saw.. well, after generations

[@margaqrt]

Your retrospective series is an exceptional and enlightening examination of the franchise. The quality of these videos exceeds "professional" documentaries.

[@ops70]

Agree! Brilliant documentary! Congratulations

[@josemiguelmarquescampo4902]

Yes, I agree. Incredibly well done. 🙂

[@MrDigimal]

Must agree wholeheartedly

[@jackthelad9933]

Agreed.

[@scottwithrow3793]

This movie has always been one of my favorites, because as much as I love Spock, it's nice to see that the crew can get things done without him. Spock and/or Vulcans were too often a deus ex machina. And "stealing the Enterprise" may be my favorite sequence ever.

[@sandal_thong8631]

They should have had one more scene with Uhura using her transporters to stop a security team from beaming aboard the Enterprise. That was always a plot hole to me.

[@rong1924]

Shatter’s performance when Kirk was forced by Sarek to relive watching Spock’s death was just heartbreaking. One of the best moments in the franchise.

[@stephenhall2980]

William shatner lended a hand fighting the flames because...of course he did.

[@pokepress]

Building up his cred for Rescue 911.

[@indy_go_blue6048]

Lol, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one who started the fire just for the attention.

[@paulmurgatroyd6372]

You can understand Nicholas Meyer's stance on the idea of bringing Spock back. He had invested so much effort to give him a great death, there's no way he would want to see it undone. That being said, part III really is more about the solidarity of the crew and their willingness to risk their careers and lives to get their friend back. I would agree with Nicholas if they just ham-fistedly explained away why Spock was alive, but it was really well executed to my mind. Also, Imagine Christopher Lloyds dismay on walking in and discovering that some maniac had created an actual working language that he needed to learn phonetically. No chance to just make a few grunts and noises! 🤣

[@fgdj2000]

I agree, that David wasn’t very well developed and we weren’t really attached to him, since he was kind of a pain in the ass for most of the previous film, then now revealed to be kind of a dick in this one. But that Death scene, that spine-chilling scream and of course Shatner‘s heartbreaking reaction to it... that was moviemaking gold imo. Plus it also triggers Kirk’s master plan of sacrificing the Enterprise. If this were a baseball game, it would have been a close one, but there are definitely two legendary home runs in here (stealing the enterprise and the entire sequence from David‘s death to the destruction of the Enterprise) that will be forever remembered... well, until they are eventually drowned in time. Like tears in the rain, eh?

[@BogeyTheBear]

I've seen things you people couldn't possibly imagine. Starfleet cruisers on fire beside the Eye of Mutara. I've seen transwarp drives sputtering in the dark by the Spacedock gates.

[@fgdj2000]

@@BogeyTheBear Something like that. :o)

[@fgdj2000]

@Sprocket List 🇬🇧 Yeah. All this is made all the more tragic by Merrit Buttrick‘s Death a few years later. Even after he had made a guest appearance on TNG alongside the actor who played Joakim in TWOK.

[@danieltallon5087]

Nexis 6.

[@sandal_thong8631]

Odd that they were so interested in the idea of Starfleet Academy or a Next Generation, and killed off two of three such characters introduced: Scotty's nephew and Kirk's son, but not Spock's apprentice, Savick.

[@mortensen2]

i've been watching these back to back - this is so much work and dedication - a great series- super interesting

[@nata3467]

Watching these after Ivory watched all the movies except for I can't find Star Trek the first one so I'll be digging around for that

[@NCC2087]

The Search for Spock is an incredible film.

[@asdfasdf7199]

it really is. easily my favorite trek film. christopher lloyd was incredible.

[@KH4444444444N]

Yes it is. My favorite. Because the various complexities of interplanetary brotherhood and trust beyond uniform and oath, drives me forward in the face of these uncertain times, full of liars and narcissists, I am emboldened still at how resolute Spocks colleagues were dedicated in restoring him to life, and in so doing, sacrificing storied vessel of livery, family, even duty, to make it happen even though chances were slim for their success. If only I had people of good character such as these in my life. I'm not even sure that they even fucking exist anymore...

[@joeboxter3635]

No way! Three is a dud. It that was a commercial follow up to the best star trek movie ever: Wrath of Kahn. Star Trek Three was a money making venture whereas Two was the artistic redemption of the failed Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Two was a distillation of the very best of the 3 season of the original series. Two is sheakspheren in nature. Three is akin to a Disney fairytale where dead returns to life -- fantasy.

[@NCC2087]

@@joeboxter3635 - You’re clearly suffering from a Mugatu bite. Star Trek III is epic. It gives us a story of loyalty and friendship. Friends who will sacrifice their careers and even their lives if necessary, to save one of their own. It gives us the Bird of Prey. It gives us the death of Kirk’s son. It gives us the destruction of the Enterprise, the greatest portrayal of a Klingon ever (as well as a great fight to the death with him), and the triumphant return of Spock. By the way, TMP is fantastic too. Star Trek 1 through 4 are awesome.

[@NCC2087]

@@joeboxter3635 - I neglected to mention that 3 also gave us the Excelsior. What a design. The movie is packed with goodness.

[@DANRYX]

I'm glad they brought Spock back. It gave me his favourite line and epitomizing his stern focus on the mission in the face of almost guaranteed failure. "I've been dead before..."

[@kev3d]

I learned more about language structure in the description of Klingon than in all my schooling.

[@rufust.firefly6352]

One criticism of the special effects...the scale of the Bird of Prey was off when in close up nose to nose with the Enterprise...it looks like a D7 in scale, rather than the smaller size it actually was and shown in later movies and shows.

[@JeremyKShort]

I definitely get the the concerns of bringing a character back after having them killed in such an emotional manner. I think one thing that they did well here, in that regard, was having there be a cost to bringing him back. The destruction of the Enterprise is the cost to bring him back. David's death is supposed to be part of that as well, but I don't know that it really hits very hard. A bit of this is undone with the Enterprise A showing up at the end of the next film. But the Enterprise's destruction is so well done, that I think it still works.

[@danielcraig9666]

I was going to say, this wasn't like Into Darkness where ten seconds later the cast member was back and everything was the status quo. They didn't get out of jail free. Kirk lost his Son, he lost his position in Star Fleet forever and they all lost the Enterprise. Even having the "new" Enterprise reveal isn't really the same though. The interiors all look different and it doesn't function the same. It's broken. And Star Trek V really hammers home home how much the replacement is not the same ship. The exterior design may look similar but it doesn't function the same way and never does again, which they leverage to their advantage in STVI. Come to think of it I like how 2-6 all carry-over.

[@Nycholas17]

...not to mention the bridge crew throwing their careers in the toilet for a cause bigger than themselves. Yeah...it works for me. 🖖

[@jtough7499]

I believe that Sarek imploring Kirk to get Spock back and the problems McCoy has after the meld and all the struggles to do the right thing for their friend and the sacrifices are well played and meted out....and it changes the arc of Spock life obviously, in so many ways.

[@fandomvault4901]

Definitely my favorite in the movie lineup

[@adambrown3918]

This was absolutely wonderful! Thank you so much. I've rewatched this movie so many times and never tire of it. As always Spock and The Enterprise are the most beloved characters so they had to come back for the fans. Great video and research. I love your channel. 😊

[@comancheviperrrr]

If you think bringing Spock back in this was rather cheeky than I am curious about something. And Star Trek into darkness they kill Kurt and bring him back within 10 minutes. If that isn’t cheeky and cheap I don’t know what it is. It makes what they did with Bob here look absolutely awesome.

[@SpaceMonke99]

Really of two minds about bringing Spock back. Yes it's cheap from a storytelling standpoint and should never be done under any circumstance, but it was great having him around in all following movies and TNG. The number of iconic Spock moments we'd lose made it worthwhile.

[@magnusprime962]

Reviving a dead character is only cheap if it comes without consequence. Spock’s revival required the crew to become fugitives and the destruction of the Enterprise itself. That’s a fairly steep cost.

[@mrmeerkat1096]

This is one of my favourite trek movies. I could never understand why people were not that keen on it. The stealing Enterprise section of the film is brilliant.

[@ObiWann90]

Can't wait for the the voyage home retrospective, it's my favorite star trek movie!

[@RowanJColeman]

Workin on it now 😁

[@grahamturner1290]

@@RowanJColeman 🖖

[@BPond7]

It was a shame that Kirstie Alley wasn’t recast, as was the decision to film everything indoors. Some of the scenes are extremely obvious! Also, Chekov’s civilian clothes were a crime against humanity! ILM leapt forward by lightyears, in their use of motion control and compositing. The Enterprise destruction matches or tops ANYTHING done by CG in modern films. It was also a treat to have James Horner return, with his incredible score! 🖖😀

[@RowanJColeman]

Civilian clothes in Star Trek began a sharp descent after this haha

[@ghostofpambo6266]

Same here. I never understood what the hell they were thinking when they came up with that outfit for Chekov.

[@Coldwater-sw6me]

„My god, bones… what have I done…?“ „What you had to… What you always do. Turning death into a fighting chance to live.“ My favorite trek film Great review🫡🖖

[@kathleenhensley5951]

I remember sitting in theater, next to my husband, with tears flowing. I tried to keep the sound down but I cried when the Enterprise blew up. The Enterprise is one of the Characters of the original series. She has a personality... "That is why we are aboard her." Kirk said. I was 16 in 1966 and at 70, Still a fan.

[@michiganjack1337]

Revival of dead characters always feels cheap but in hindsight I’m glad that we were able to get more Spock as a result. I had almost forgot that original Romulan Bird of Prey was painted with a bird. Great video. 🖖

[@M-E_123]

But if you look at the later films, did they gain that much from him returning? A few good laughs in Voyage Home, a couple of campfire scenes in Final Frontier (and a half brother we never really needed), only Undiscovered Country really did much with him (mainly in his scenes with Valeris). TNG arguably did better. In the Kelvinverse Film's he was a cheap nostalgia cameo. Would it have been better to let his best scene (his death) stand?

[@jeremyjohnson7429]

That linguist is a brilliant man.

[@shona-sof]

Excellent video! I'm genuinely amazed how much info I did not know is in this retrospective. Thank you!

[@annchurchill2638]

There were so many excellent people involved in production that I couldn't remember any of their names. I wish you had, as so many oothers have done, now and then subtitled their written names.Yes, it's a real suggestion.

[@alexjaybrady]

I felt the tragedy so hard, but then through some very star trek twist; the genesis device, there was a glimmer of hope. i loved it

[@leecollison7527]

Loving this series, just gutted that we have to wait about a month for each one.

[@RominaJones]

That was really one big unfortunate misunderstanding between the producers and Nimoy. I am grateful it could be corrected.

[@Egobyte83]

The thing about ST3 is, there was every chance of it being exactly what the voiceover said at the beginning; like, "oops, just kidding, here he is, folks, alive and well". But The Search For Spock did it right. It used the already established Genesis machine as a plot device to bring back a character who was so integral to Star Trek that I suspect that going on without Spock would have made anything after ST2 very much lesser successes. And using the Genesis device in that regard, it also sort of made 2 and 3 very interlinked, strengthening the bonds between the stories to a point where NOT bringing Spock back would have been impossible.

[@antaresmaelstrom5365]

25:03 Oh hey I never noticed the aft section of the 'phase 2 enterprise' on the left there.

[@randolphmeredyth-drake7514]

This is actually my favorite film from the original cast. I had always seen 'Kirk' as a father figure, placing me in the role of his son. I also had a huge crush on Merritt Butrick. Those two elements are profound in my psyche. That and the very very personal nature of the story really speaks to me. Also, come on, Shatner is at his 'Kirk' best when fighting 'Kruge'. Their exchange is on par with him and 'Kahn', if not better. We had to wait for 'Into Darkness' before we got the fight we should have had in 'Wrath of Kahn' - between 'Spock' and 'Kahn'. Another great video, Rowan.

[@Nycholas17]

Nice and fair review! Part III has always been and remains my favorite of the franchise on the basis of its emotional drive; its flaws are reasonably pointed out here, but they are no bigger than those of any other Star Trek film. 🖖 After all, Montalban's awesome but illogical line, "I never forget a face," is a good starting point.

[@RegginaldRiglet]

I love all your work and especially the details you put into all your videos. Cheers

[@RowanJColeman]

I appreciate it mate :)

[@Scripture-Man]

Thanks for the great video! I absolutely love Mark Okrand, the Klingon language guy! Fascinating clips of him! As a little feedback, I feel that some of these retrospectives are lacking a basic plot synopsis, which would make the reviews feel more complete, especially for those unfamiliar with the film in question.

[@tedgruver7618]

One thing that kind of baffles me, what was with the extra battle damage on the Enterprise in this movie? I know that the torpedo hole on the underside of the saucer section close to the neck and the phaser damage to the port side of the engineering section and torpedo bay were from the battle with Khan but where did the extra damage to saucer and engineering sections and the warp nacelles come from?

[@sandal_thong8631]

I know the damage report lights on the bridge when they were attacked by Khan didn't match the damage in the special effects we saw.

[@joshuapatrick682]

Spock’s death in WOK gave Star Trek real weight because it raised the stakes super high which not even Star Wars had done. And it was such a fitting end. The needs of the many…

[@aerob1033]

I definitely agree that bringing Spock back somewhat cheapens the incredibly touching way they killed him off in the first place--one of my favorite character deaths in all of cinema. That said, I think if they *had* to bring him back, they handled it about as well as they could have. The crew paid a huge price to get him back, between the death of Kirk's son and the loss of the Enterprise and, for all we know as of the film's ending, the loss of all of their careers as Starfleet officers. And for Spock himself, returning from the dead seems to have been equally traumatic, with the loss of his memories. I think all of the above shows a strong consciousness of the storytelling problem by Nimoy and Bennett, and I think they did all that they could to remedy it. I also think Star Trek III is a genuinely good movie and is a bit under-sung by fans of both Star Trek and of cinema.

[@alexanderhummel3917]

The excelsior is my favorite design in the whole ST universe

[@ValkyrieMagnus]

I was surprised to see that John Larroquette played the Klingon Maltz making it 2 comedians playing Klingons.

[@sandal_thong8631]

"Maltz, Cho-Ichu!"

[@harrypothead42024]

Search for Spock was the first VHS tape my family ever owned. We bought it the weekend after it was available, I believe it cost $135.

[@sandal_thong8631]

My uncle thought if he bought a VHS copy of Star Trek V, someone would buy it from him for $75.

[@harrypothead42024]

@@sandal_thong8631 star trek V wasn't cheap when first released on vhs. The most expensive movie I can remember was Ghostbusters 2. It was 350 purchase price for about the first year it was on VHS. Honey I shrunk the kids was also that high, I think.

[@sandal_thong8631]

@@harrypothead42024 I think they were deliberately high to sell to the rental companies.

[@harrypothead42024]

@@sandal_thong8631 yeah they were doing basically the same thing that video game companies do now with exclusive releases. You could rent it at Blockbuster for I think it was $5 a night back in 1991 or you could buy it for that ridiculous price. It wasn't like that with all movies only those certain tent pole releases.

[@FrankJMarr]

I think David's death is compelling because it's the death of possibility. Kirk never really connected with his son, and never was able to because of his murder.

[@JonGreen91]

Klingonese - a language so niche, yet has a spot on Duolingo.

[@brianadeva4560]

You can bring Spock back but on what cost? The life of Kirk's son and the loss of the Enterprise. The cost somehow counters what Spock stated in StarTrek 2.

[@Mr.-Good]

Thank You, Star Trek has been a show I grew up with. The originals my Grandfather got for me on VHS to the TNG shows my sister got me watching when they were coming out on cable TV. I am still watching, and I enjoy the new shows as well. I have an idea, from a secret super fan who has watched every minute of almost everything Star trek at least 5 times but doesn't own a single Star Trek item and never got to meet anyone from Star Trek cause I live in WI, that state in the middle of nowhere. The idea is because the neck is usually strengthened and I always thought that if the Enterprise had 2 more contact points making the nacelles connect to the saucer yet still able to separate, almost a Voyager look to it but give it a Battle Star Galactica proportion a bit more even up and down like some of the theories. It would provide faster travel to those points in the ship for repair as well as if those areas took damage then 3 contact points would have to be destroyed to cut it in half basically. That being said, again I love Star Trek so much its my go to, I watch to relax and dream of perfect times for humanity. I Always hoped to see Guinan be a secret leader of a Federation organization (the future time travel police) during a time where the federation falls to political unrest, where the corruption of power in a future where time travel tech starts becoming easier to acquire is then wielded by an unworthy sort leading the federation. I have had tons of thoughts about this all the way down to using the multiverse as the problem created by those who time traveled in the very beginning creating alternate timelines which will ultimately need to be fixed by Guinan as she the last of her race. I chose Guinan cause she has more care about the well being of things but puts beings like Q at bay as they each have their unique abilities. One short I wrote actually has Hugh travel from one universe where the borg has won every encounter, reached so far they had gained a lot of the tech that was supposed to be destroyed in TNG and other Treks, Techs like Iconian transport and they then create a borg super with tech personal transport healing Nano repair time dilation and more, to another universe as Hugh learns the plan for multiverse domination a connection from another Hugh then makes this one borg decide to steal the tech jump ship and come to a universe that is labeled as the most threatening to the ultimate conquest of the borg. That Universe will be where Guinan is leading the fate and future of the universes past and present towards stability. It would also give a lot more explanation to why Guinan just knows things aside from her race just being listeners. Thank You ALL OF YOU STAR TREK CREATORS EVEYONE INVOLVED you are the reason I write all of you are the reason I dream of space but most importantly the reason I strive to always hold myself up to honor those around me be polite yet strong, tactical, and creative. Thank You all again and again and again. I only deeply hope that my kids can have the same similar trek experiences, hopes, and dreams that space travel has given me. Star Trek is my Saturday morning show right next to X-Men. I love all you beautiful people involved in every single Star Trek. Truly your forever admirer Adam CC.

[@martyREq2]

I really like the stealing the Enterprise scene that one is just awesome.

[@SumDumGy]

I’ve always thought the second film felt cheaper than the first, and the third cheaper than the second. I love the space dock but always hated the Excelsior. It’s both too bulky and too clumsy/slapped together at the nacelle area.

[@mdm5216]

The recast of Savok and the David thread seemed distracting. I had seen this before I knew who Lloyd was so I was sold on his portrayal.

[@stevendavid5370]

I don't think this writer understands the love of Spock and Leonard Nimoy. Leonard in real life was very much like Spock. Captain Kirk and William Shatner are miles apart and Shatner playing Kirk was another role. But Spock and Nimoy were very much the same person, a person we could honor because he was honorable both on screen and in real life. I still get choked up when I see the scene in Wrath of Kahn, where Spock dies, a scene that couldn't have been acted any better, especially Shatner. The third movie brought it all home for me. I miss Leonard a lot, but I also miss all the other cast members who have passed away. I think of them often. I would like to meet William and Ms. Nichols some day.

[@midnighttornado22]

I mean, why not try to milk the whole Genesis concept, while it's there for the taking as an opportunity to also resurrect Spock? III explored the repercussions of the events in II, which I felt was awesome. There were some TV-ish moments, but the good parts easily made up for them. I'm glad we got to have the Genesis Trilogy in the form of II, III, and IV.

[@bradyvelvet9432]

17:03 what if the Japanese had designed the Enterprise? Well of course!

[@Malryth]

Lol!! I loved how you referred to that "odd/even" theory some of us developed about the success of the Star Trek movies. Hey, at least Star Trek's 3rd movie didn't involve little teddy bear things beating up Stormtroopers from that "other" franchise. ;) I really did enjoy the explanation of the Klingon language by the guy that developed it. I almost forgot Nimoy had directed this movie. I do admit, I do not own these movies on any sort of media. I will try to remedy this soon, as the 80's were full of so many great movies. As a teen back then, I know Star Wars was the movie that "wowed" me and cemented my love for SF...the next Star Trek movie is memorable for me and I recall paying to see it about 3 times in theatre over here in Canada. Looking forward to the next review! :)

[@nwahnerevar9398]

People always go on about the Ewoks but everything else about Return of the Jedi is perfect.

[@Malryth]

@@nwahnerevar9398 Oh when I originally saw Return of the Jedi...opening night over here in my home town. I hopped a bus after school with my friend. We arrived for the 7pm showing at around 4:30pm. Not "first" in line...but 5th. The old Lyric movie theatre had a line down the road and up the ally. The entire theatre CHEERED when RD and Threepio first appeared. Actually they cheered when every hero made their first appearance. I only developed my slight distain for the Ewok's after getting a little older and playing more role playing games with semi realistic rules. An Empire that had the power to destroy an entire planet should not have been waylaid so easily by a stone age tribe. Just my opinion now and I do not back down from it. Peace.

[@nwahnerevar9398]

@@Malryth Yeah but then the space battle and Luke's final confrontation with Vader and the Emperor are perfect cinema. Because of that I think it's probably my favourite of the original trilogy to be honest.

[@Malryth]

@@nwahnerevar9398 Oh I agree! The space battle was epic!!! With all of Lucas's tinkering of the "original" movies, the only scene I wish he had was showing a single Rebel ship collide and explode against the Second Death Star's shields before Lando called off the initial attack. I loved the music and energy of the scene between Luke and Vadar. Like any good story, each reached the end of their journey. They both grew from experience. That is why I reject the changed the Disney "sequel" made, why I have never seen, nor do I ever plan on seeing The Rise of Skywalker. Disney poisoned and drove me over to the Phantom Menace with The Last Jedi... Only 6 movies exist in "my personal cannon" and they were all helmed by Lucas himself.

[@bobmcdade5217]

David's death is made heartbreaking by Shatner's excellently acted reaction - and is referenced in VI when Kirk, shockingly, responds to Spock's observation that, without the Federations assistance the Klingon race will perish; 'let them die!'. Also disagree that the first film is better - I think you're pretty much on your own with that. Otherwise, I enjoyed watching your review and learned a few things I had not been aware of. So thanks!

[@1977TA]

Bringing Spock back was a mistake no matter how you look at it. The resurrection takes away the weight of the sacrifice He made to save the ship and his crewmates. Bringing him back takes away the consequence of his heroic action and makes it appear as if it never happened. Spock's death was a textbook on how you kill off a beloved main character. Undoing such a powerful on-screen moment is a cinematic crime.

[@sandal_thong8631]

I think he shouldn't have been killed in the first place. They could have done a series of films involving exploring space and "new civilizations" to comment on modern problems. But those in charge didn't know what they were doing.

[@seawind930]

Couldn't get "Star Trek the Search for David" made so they killed Kirk's son for fun (though they brought him for fun too)

[@heydj6857]

there just isn't any star trek i don't like. they all have there charms and i do love them all

[@metal87power]

Such a huge station would fall down on the surface. It's too massive and too close.

[@mikeharry1799]

Too bad Olmos didn't get the part of Kruge...

[@bradyvelvet9432]

The language segment of this video was so cool to watch! It must be so cool to invent a language!

[@indy_go_blue6048]

Imagine the incredible brains and imagination of JRR Tolkien in making up THREE different languages AND a written alphabet for all 3 of them.

[@Sorain1]

@@indy_go_blue6048 The man loved language, not any one language, but language itself. He enjoyed doing it, and you can tell that from the quality of the results.

[@NixonRules963]

Lowkey made me wish that I had become a linguist lol.

[@BrandonToy]

@@NixonRules963 There’s still time

[@NightDocs]

Genuinely baffled at how many leaks there were with the Star Trek films in an age before the internet. Been noticing a pattern with most of your videos. How did the leaks even spread?

[@RowanJColeman]

Back in the day there were much longer paper chains for memos and script notes etc. If someone in that chain was friendly with a fan group, they could easily pass on copies of those memos or just relay the info to someone in the club. That info would then circulate among the fan club mailing list and spread from there.

[@astra_official4179]

Rumor is that a disgruntled Roddenberry was the source of many of the leaks, since his input was being ignored by the production team.

[@clay1430]

@@astra_official4179 after getting into this series I can definitely see that

[@tonebone7449]

Before social media, before blogs, before websites, there were fanzines and newsletters, printed on something called paper.

[@RighteousBrother]

Nobody cared as much about spoilers back then, I've got some old Starlog and Starburst magazines and it's crazy how casually theyd discuss Star Wars spoilers theyd just be dropped into the article with no warning!

[@user-yv4mm6bx3c]

Even though Spock coming back takes away from Wrath of Kahn's emotional climax. There are a lot of sacrifices and long lasting consequences to bringing Spock back that become issues for the characters in the later films and even to TNG. That's smart writing for a difficult problem.

[@fakecubed]

Bringing him back doesn't lessen the impact of Wrath of Khan in any way. Spock was dead. That happened, and it had far-reaching consequences. One of the consequences is that Kirk and crew risk everything to get him back. Spock is also changed by the experience. He's not the same man. Those around him aren't quite the same either. And in saving him, they lose the Enterprise. I rank the trilogy of films, Star Treks 2-4 to be one of the best story arcs ever put on the big screen.

[@Paul_1971]

@@fakecubed One of my favourite all time trilogies too

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

As a kid when i watched Star Trek III for the first time i only knew Christopher Lloyd as Doc Brown and Judge Doom and was already a fan of him by that point. His performance as Klingon Commander Kruuge was really intense and impressed the living hell out of me as a 8 or 9 year old kid. He did feel dangerous and really like the perfect Klingon commander. Ruthless, tactical and brutal.

[@ricogomez4020]

I would have preferred James Almos and they said he gave the better screen test.

[@easygrin1127]

Yes he was great

[@rileyk99]

Man he was great as Judge Doom, I still get the creeps.

[@robzilla730]

Reverend Jim

[@danieltallon5087]

He killed Kirk's son!!

[@gregcampwriter]

Edward James Olmos would have been a great Klingon.

[@MartinPittBradley]

Yeah! I can’t believe they thought Doc Brown would be imposing. He just looked wiry

[@paulheap1982]

@@MartinPittBradley imposing as in theight. Olmos is 5' 9, whereas Lloyd is 6' 1. Shatner is 5' 10, so I could see why they'd go with a taller actor.

[@MartinPittBradley]

@@paulheap1982 Doc Brown might be 6’1”, but he’s a rail. I think Olmos standing on a box would have worked better. Just my opinion.

[@paulheap1982]

@@MartinPittBradley and Olmos is noticeably thicker? Plus the costuming well hid that anyway.

[@Scottlp2]

Oh wow, what a thought.

[@camerongrow6426]

5 minutes in and I'm already trying not to tear up about the death of Nemoy

[@danivarius]

Nimoy, not Nemoy

[@bobmcdade5217]

I have watch WoK countless times and my eyes brim with tears every time.

[@KH4444444444N]

There are always possibilities, Spock said. He was always our friend. He's not really gone...as long as we remember him.

[@Scripture-Man]

Ah yes, Lenerd Nemoy, who played Spoque

[@danieltallon5087]

I just farted.

[@AlisterBulman]

1701 and you're doing a Start trek video.

[@RowanJColeman]

Holy shit, didn't even notice that haha

[@BronzeAgeBryon]

Paramount: Let's increase security to prevent plot leaks. / Marketing: Oh, we put the scene of the Enterprise exploding in trailers. Was that wrong? Joking aside I truly enjoy TSFS it has some of the best lines in Trek film that showcase the depth and heartbreak these characters experience in making decisions in the moment. Kirk: My God Bones...what have I done? Bones: What you had to do...what you always do...turn death into a fighting chance to live. / Sarek: At what cost...your ship...your son. Kirk: If I hadn't tried..the cost would have been my soul. Powerful stuff Trekkies.

[@sandal_thong8631]

Looking back, it's like Spock's death: Just a stunt to excite audiences, but undone in the next movie. I liked to imagine instead of getting the Enterprise back, Kirk and his crew are given a Starfleet version of the Bird of Prey: a scout class vessel to cross space, go in, get a dirty job done, and get out.

[@jamesnasium4035]

STIII is right behind Wrath of Khan for me, the 2nd best Trek movie. It feels most like a good TOS episode. Nimoy understands Trek better than Meyer; he also gets a better performance out of Shatner. This movie is really a character study of James T. Kirk, showcasing his best qualities and his swashbuckling tendencies (including a Kirk-fu fight). It is also a demonstration that the best part of humanity is its illogical, emotional side--things like loyalty and friendship--and it's really perfect that without this humanity, Spock would never have been saved. STII demonstrates the heroism of Spock, embedded in his logic: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. In STIII, this is turned on its head. The complementarity of Spocks' logic and Kirk's humanity, as depicted in STII and III (neither Spock nor Kirk would be alive without the other, nor would evil have been defeated without both of them) encompasses why Kirk and Spock make such a great team.

[@sandal_thong8631]

I think it was a mistake to introduce an alien philosophy: Vulcan Logic, and then tear it down at every opportunity. In many ways it is a better way than ours. While it saved the Vulcan people from brutal warfare, it could be partially used to control humanity's rampant illogic and emotionalism. Ending religious fanaticism comes to mind. I liked to say the difference between a barbarian and a fanatic is that the barbarian reads no books, but the fanatic reads one. But then the fanatic doesn't really read one book, but just believes what the preachers say. Also today we have people who reject mainstream media as a source for facts and news. Just yesterday I said that violent crime in the 1970s and 1980s was high, but dropped pretty much every year in the 1990s, and 2000s, but the other person didn't believe me. During COVID the rise in crime rates has returned to the 2010s, not the 1980s, but ever since the 1990s, the local media has presented the news by the phrase, "if it bleeds, it leads" making people think crime rates are still high. Too many don't want to know facts that contradict their feelings, or don't know where to get them.

[@M-E_123]

​@sandal_thong8631 but then you have the flip side "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" - the central message people gladly take away from The Wrath of Khan - unless you have emotion & empathy, which instead lead people to, as part of the majority, be willing to make sacrifices they can more readily afford, in order to help those less fortunate (rather than turn everything into a matter of "majority rules"). That's the message of the 3rd film, as conveyed by Kirk to Spock at the end - "you sacrificed for us out of logic, we sacrificed for you out of love" (because they could, and their irrational emotions dictated that if they could, they should) - it was not "logical" for them to have risked their own lives for him, but it was human.

[@sothatsdevintart2562]

I almost wish there was a comic book adaptation of the original Star Trek 3 script, just the idea of Vulcans trying to leave The Federation (due to the Genesis device) just sounds so cool.

[@tonebone7449]

I love the fact that at 19:52 you show Nimoy directing, cigarette in hand, and immediately cut to the soundstage burning out of control.

[@brianh1701]

The destruction of the Enterprise is, to this day and for me, one of the most heartbreaking moments in all of Star Trek. I remember seeing it in the trailers as a youth and begging my mother (who knew just as little as I did) to confirm what I was seeing wasn't what I was seeing. That there had to be an explanation for it that didn't end with her (the Enterprise) destruction.

[@vorpal120]

Thank you for this one. To the even number thing: I love Star Trek and have not only thought of this movie as good but an essential part of a trilogy. This movie being the middle of a story. Star Trek 2, 3, & 4 are essential together as a story. Then, 6 as a post trilogy 4th movie. I like the story continuity and call backs to in all four movies. The Motion Picture and 5th movie are, to me, extended TOS episodes like TV movies.

[@sandal_thong8631]

Some of the cast were upset with the anti-Klingon racism in the story. I can imagine Kirk's bitterness about the Klingon's being pretty much in denial for the death of his son and destruction of Starship Grissom. But it totally overlooks his experience in the first Klingon story, "Errand of Mercy" where they are forced to resolve their differences peacefully and Kirk is told that one day humans and Klingons will become fast friends. Kirk didn't need to be that way to advance the story.

[@erchie01]

Another excellent retrospective Rowan, well done. Looking forward to your retro on The Voyage Home, and The Final Frontier, which I hope you'll go to town on.

[@ro_the_lion]

My gosh Christopher Lloyd was so iconic in this. To be honest, this could easily be my favourite role he's played, just because of the unexpected menace and gravitas he puts into the character. And the way he spoke Klingon just really paved the way for all future portrayals, imo. Fully agree with you on David, he really was so lean on characterization, and it makes full sense why the Enterprise's death hit so much harder, since we'd gotten to know her across decades (even if her form shifted a bit in that time). Kirk's whole extended family plotline felt a bit crowbarred in for me, and that feeling continues until his so-called history with his partner, Antonia, an inclusion that I just never bought (despite how much warmth Shatner tried to put into the scenes). On the other side of the spectrum, whereas, I was fully convinced by Picard's stories of his family, which was given a lot more respect by the writers and was allowed to stretch through many years of stories.

[@M-E_123]

I always assumed that you'd have invested more in David if Kirsty Alley would have remained as Saavik - that extra connection back to the previous film, and the better chemistry between the two actors glimsed in that previous film, would have helped alot I think. Maybe some additional scenes with David & Kirk, or keeping his mother around would have helped too. Essentially Kirk & David had too little screen time together & so we (the audience) would have benefitted from either seeing that expanded, or having multiple other characters care about his death, not just Kirk alone - it's a lot for Kirk to carry, which Shatner almost managed, but more help was needed.

[@AncestorEmpire1]

Star Trek 3: Making Boys and Men cry before it was mainstream. Hank Hill: I didn't cry, it was just water in the exhaust

[@HOTD108_]

Surely Star Trek 2 is what was making everyone cry?

[@AncestorEmpire1]

@@HOTD108_ ST2 made me feel agony and pain ST3 made me cry.

[@KH4444444444N]

@@AncestorEmpire1 I thank you Kirk...What you have done.... What I have done, I had to do, BUt at what cost? Your ship? Your son?...If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul...

[@99tubalcain]

Shame Olmos didn't get the role involving the new language. He worked very hard to develop the street language featured in Blade Runner and obviously had a passion for such things.

[@fakecubed]

He would've been a better Klingon.

[@jenniferwilliams9612]

This video is a ton of fun to watch. I very much Enjoyed the break down of the early development of the Klingon language. Great job digging up that old footage, and thank you for doing it!

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

Yes, David's death does feel a little sudden and does not have the emotional impact that it should have. If David would have had one more movie, the audience would have had more time to bond with him and making the loss of him feel even harder. HOWEVER.... his death still has the right impact in full context because this film deals with loss. BIG losses. Kirk cannot get over the loss of his best friend and to get him back he risks EVERYTHING. His Ship, his Career, his Son... he loses it all and almost loses his crew too. Everyone in his crew share the same loss, except for Kirk's Son but of course they feel for him. It shows the bond the crew had for each other and how much the word Loyalty means to them. What i find more sad is that we never really saw Kirk being that much affected by David's dead afterwards in Star Trek IV and V. It wasn't until Star Trek VI when we see Kirk actually mourn his dead Son in a computer log entry.

[@BronzeAgeBryon]

Something however brief should have been included in Star Trek V during their engage with Sybok in the observation lounge.

[@KRAFTWERK2K6]

@@BronzeAgeBryon Yeah! Oh man... talk about huge missed opportunity.

[@cdreid99999]

They used the wrong actor. Im sure he's great in a lot of things but you needed someone with a lot of screen presence. Someone who walks on screen and fascinates you

[@carlosbfly]

I love this new retrospective series, always so happy to see the latest episode up.

[@michaelbarlow6610]

I remember reading somewhere (possibly in the book about the making of "Star Trek2:The Wrath of Khan") that during the principle filming of that movie, that at one point director Nicholas Meyer went up to Nimoy at Spock's station on the Enterprise's bridge and squatted down in front of the seated Nimoy and said to him, "Is there some way we can leave the door just slightly open?" (for the return of Spock that is). And during their talk, Nimoy suggested that Spock could do a mind-meld on Dr.McCoy and then when Meyer asked Nimoy what would Spock say in that situation, Nimoy after thinking a moment simply said, "Remember". So although Nicolas Meyer was upset that Harve Bennett had decided to bring back Spock for a third film by having the additional footage filmed at the end of "Star Trek2:The Wrath of Khan" (footage which Meyer objected to the inclusion of at the end of the film), Meyer apparently went along with the decision by asking Nimoy prior to the completion of principle filming on "Star Trek2:The Wrath of Khan" if there was a way to leave the door slightly ajar for a possible return of Spock for a third Star Trek film and what would Spock say as Spock mind-melded with McCoy.

[@ZipplyZane]

This information is in Nimoy's second autobiography _I Am Spock._

[@BogeyTheBear]

Nicholas Meyer has mentioned that a useful element of storytelling is ambiguity, a tendril of possibility from which the audience can latch onto and develop their own theories. Famously expressed by the mystery over why Khan keeps one glove on for the entire story. Keeping the door open is just another way to engage the audience into the possibilities.

[@soupful]

No, seen the photo never happened. Meyer was not involved in pick up shots on McCoy or genisis. They offered him "Trek 3" and Meyer refused because couldnt see re-viving Spock again. Nimoy looked for his oppurtunity

[@michaelbarlow6610]

@@soupful . Wrong!

[@brydon5721]

I always think it's such a shame that Kirstie Alley didn't return, her Saavik is the better interpretation of the character with a subtle strength that drove the young Vulcan/Romulan (though her backstory never officially included this titbit, it is still an interesting idea to include with the character) forward.

[@sandal_thong8631]

Somebody didn't know how to negotiate. Possibly when she signed on to _Star Trek II_ they didn't expect it to be any better than the previous. Once it was, they deserved a raise, but how much?

[@paulaburrows8660]

Like most I have seen countless Trek docs. However, this was incredibly engaging. Your love of Trek is infectious so much so I wanted to watch the movie straight after, even though I could recite the script.

[@grahamturner1290]

When The Wrath Of Khan was first shown in England the Chernobyl disaster had just happened and made Spock's death by radiation poisoning especially relevant. 🖖

[@paulheap1982]

Completely false. WOK was 82 Chernobyl was 86.

[@grahamturner1290]

@@paulheap1982 It took a long time for films to appear on the TV in those days! It was being shown on ITV during the same week as Chernobyl.

[@paulheap1982]

@@grahamturner1290ah right, wasn't that clear in your comment. i know. We didn't even get TNG til 1990. lol.

[@grahamturner1290]

@@paulheap1982 indeed, I saw the first episodes of TNG on rental video before they came out on retail VHS and were eventually broadcast (sometimes edited) on the BBC. Good times! 🖖

[@stankythecat6735]

@@paulheap1982 damn ... that was a fast pounce on some one .... sheesh !

[@eggsandchips91]

Another brilliant retrospective video. These are so well put together and informative. Keep up the great work

[@konradhutchins5321]

These retrospectives are fantastic and so well put together. Thank you!

[@ZuluRomeo]

This is the first retrospective video of yours I've seen, funnily enough for the first Star Trek movie I had ever seen. It's a great video, really well researched and explained, and well presented. Looking forward to the next few ones, especially The Undiscovered Country - the film which in my opinion is closest in spirit to DS9 in hindsight in terms of tone and other subtle ways, and coincidentally planned and produced at around the same time (and also at the time of Gene Roddenberry's death)...

[@Bethos1247-Arne]

"Don't call me tiny." "Up your shaft". "This is fantasy!"

[@therugburnz]

I was waiting for Lloyd's Klingon character to slip in an, " Okee doke".

[@KPX-nl4nt]

Or a “Great Scott”!

[@josephbarkemeyer3277]

At 25:07 at the top left corner of the spacedock interior you can see the model for what was meant to be the refit design for the enterprise in the motion picture but later became the crossfield class in star trek discovery. Though I may be wrong.

[@KayleighBourquin]

Perhaps it IS a Crossfield class ;)

[@jessicachristine4602]

I think it would have been more powerful if it was unclear if Spock really had returned at the start of the film, and Kirk still sacrifices everything regardless of the uncertainty, and at the end spock isn't to be found. It would be a whole movie coming to grips with mourning spock, acceppting it, and persevering to a brigher days despite the pain.the uncertainty still allows Spock to come back later in another film

[@WhoIsCalli]

Every time a new part comes out I rewatch your whole series. Another great review, thanks mate. I’ve only recently got into Star Trek, and your retrospectives are bringing me deeper into the Original Series stuff 👍

[@GeofftheIronwolf]

While not as big as TWOK, this movie proved Star Trek was viable on the big screen. I still enjoy this movie and the stealing the Enterprise sequence is still one of my favorite star trek sequences.

[@ukmediawarrior]

WoK made more at the box office, so I suppose it depends on what you consider bigger:) WoK made $97 million off of a $12 million budget, SfS made $87 million off a $13 million budget

[@m.e.3862]

I liked that everyone had their part in stealing the enterprise. It was funny and showed that the crew would do anything, even put their lives and careers at risk to save one of their own

[@headlightbandit8618]

The stealing the Enterprise scene is one of the best things in film history.

[@JonasMeichel]

Man I can’t wait for your retrospective for Star Trek IV: The Whale One it’s my personal favourite Star Trek movie

[@TTOTheTrueOne]

Followed by Star Trek V: The Bad One

[@TheBigExclusive]

Killing David was a mistake. What were they thinking? We just met him in the last film!

[@willmfrank]

For one to live, another must die... The 'one' in this case is Spock; the 'other' is David.

[@epsilonalphaargo1948]

@@willmfrank And the Enterprise.

[@sandal_thong8631]

To wrap things up, and be done with the Genesis storyline which was tech beyond their level? Or another stunt to make you feel danger. Killing off red-shirts was what was supposed to bring danger and peril to TOS.

[@mikecronis]

The Christian themes of Eden, Adam & Eve, Satan & St.Michael are pretty obvious here, and my favorite Star Trek film overall. It adds tarnish to the Federation Utopia and sets up Kirk to later be used as an expected failure in the 6th film.

[@soupful]

Nimoy the director was wrong in casting Christopher Lloyd over Edward James Olmos, same with replacing Kirstie Alley as Saavik with Robin Curtis. Neither were good casting choices. Also Nimoy wasn't Paramount's choice to direct. He was ignored for long time by the "Brass" and naturally they wanted to know if he would reprise Spock even after his sacrifice and death, but that's Hollyweird ? To Nimoy's credit he had done both stage and TV directing credits and made a sincere "Trek 3" feature film debut. More so with acclaimed, commercially succesful "Trek 4" thus creative reason's moved on for the established younger cast introduced in "Trek 2" and picked up directly from events of previous films giving supporting cast nice moments if still lacking throughout until "Trek VI" again good but lacking. Like the original Series, "Trek" is about the trinity of kirk, Spock and McCoy as the lead's of conflicting brotherhood. Many guest-stars or Lt.Saavik & Dr. David Marcus the new gen-bred ultimately contributed nothing more than extended guest-shots, darn shame.

[@autarchprinceps]

To the guy explaining there are only 6 possible word orderings, and every language has to take one and only one: You need more creativity, and knowledge in a less analytical, more synthetic language structure. Heck in modern German all of these word orderings are valid, and I am not saying this is a complete list: I eat the chocolate (SVO), I have the chocolate eaten (SVOV), the chocolate have I eaten (OVSV), eaten have I the choclate (Vreversed S O), have I the chocolate eaten? (V S O V), because I the chocolate eaten have (P S O Vreversed), the chocolate, the I eaten have (O Article Repitition S Vreversed), I have me the chocolate bought (S V DO AO V), me have I the chocolate bought (DO V S AO V), have me the chocolate bought ((S implied) V DO AO V), the chocolate have I me bought (AO V S DO V), have I me bought ((AO implied) V S DO V). Buy the chocolate! (V O), could you so nice be me the chocolate to buy (I give up). And most of these sentences are simple af. They don't even contain infinitive constructs (safe for the last one), compound words, relative clauses, attributes, adjectives, adverbs, konjunctive form, passive verbs, prepositional objects, etc. nor are they a composition of sentences. I once had to read a short story made by Kafka. It was 4 A5 pages long, and only consisted of two sentences total. Obviously he is notoriously insane, but technically they were grammatically correct, not to mention that this is not just a theoretically valid compound word, but was actually used as the name of a law just a few decades ago: Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz (The law for the transferal of the tasks of supervising the labeling of beef). Technically that could be a subject or an object, but to translate it into another language, you need many of those, and two verbs. In classical Latin, at the very least in poetry and formal speech, you could literally split up each word of an object or such across the sentence, for example, to form a hexameter emphasis pattern, not to mention that every subject could be inferred from the ending of the verb, if it was clear anyway. And both of these are pretty mainstream languages. I don't know what Navajo, Japanese, Hungarian, Finnish, Inuktitut, or whatever complex languages are out there might have to offer.

[@111highgh]

This is where you got all of that Katra stuff? That's from Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. Search for Spock? Now, I know that Jerry will tell you that The Wrath of Khan is the better picture... You dufus!