Stargate SG-1 - Season 8 - New Order, Part 1 - The Goa'uld make an offer

An offer that Weir can refuse.

[@RetroActiveGM]

General Hammond: "I am a military general, I will do my job and open negotiations with the Goa'uld in the interests of protecting this planet." Dr. Weir: "I wanna be a system lord lol"

[@vaniellys]

I love Weir, she stood out a lot from the military leaders and did her job very efficiently. She's one of the reasons I love SGA so much.

[@mamasboy9886]

She did awesome job on Atlantis too

[@shawntipton5078]

Weir was very refreshing as a character, unfortunately she was replaced by a generic gun tooting woman in season 4 of Atlantis. I really can't stand the O'Neill character, in no way in real life would he still be in the US Airforce or leader of an installation like the SGC based on just a few of his actions alone. This is where the power of plot device came in unfortunately. The other characters are also poorly written, at least in part. unlike almost all science fiction really, Stargate is better then most but is still generic, badly written, unrealistic and uninspired but in Stargate's case, very entertaining. I say that as someone who has watched and enjoyed SG-1 and Atlantis twice fully.

[@PR--un4ub]

@@shawntipton5078 What did you think of Richard Woolsey (Season 5 of SGA)?

[@Adrian2140]

Same here, though I must say I have a soft spot for MR Woolsey too and that goes double for Sam. They were all amazing leaders.

[@IAreSmeegoo]

@@shawntipton5078 id say for its time it was written pretty well, but in regards to O'Neill there are actual air force generals who worked closely with the show who said there are some air force officers very similar to him.

[@samuelzuleger5134]

Season 1: how's this gate thing work. Season 8: Yeah, uh, we're kinda just gonna become THE power in the galaxy. The fact that the show did it so smoothly and believably is a credit to cast, crew, and writers.

[@pieceofschmidtgamer]

And the best part? Our citizenry have no idea of any of it! I mean, imagine waking up tomorrow to the news that the Earth is now the greatest power in all the galaxy?

[@xxZerosumxx]

Taking them down one at a time. The system Lords underestimated the Tau'ri because of their ego. Plus all the knowledge they acquired was put to good use against them.

[@OriginalMokthol]

@@pieceofschmidtgamer Conspiracy theorists would be having the time of their lives. If that were true, who knows what else could be

[@averyvaliant]

They weren't really the power in the galaxy until the last moment though, when the Asgard gave them the beam weapons. And even after they were added, the Tauri ships still relied on relatively weak energy generation systems, it was only when they got their hands on a ZPM, did the ships really kick ass. The Tauri's rail guns and missiles had little to no effect against shielded targets and even vs unshielded vessels like the Wraith cruisers (mid level ships), they had to rely on secondary explosions in the hangar bays to do damage. I kinda wish we'd seen them reverse engineer the Gou'lds energy weapons midway through the show, such as retrofitting those mobile cannons to the Prometheus. Not exactly anti capital ship weapons, but retro fit 20 or more of those to the hull, they probably would've been a match for the hatak class ships. One shot to the bridge of the Alkesh bomber was enough to bring one of those down (When T'ealc killed that Tanith guy)

[@doords]

@@pieceofschmidtgamer Yeah all the geopolitics over oil, energy, water, minerals etc etc is basically pointless now with easy space travel

[@Razorgeist]

Gotta respect Oshu (Yu's first Prime) he's clearly an OK guy just trying to hold shit together.

[@Ragitsu]

"I must do as my god commands."

[@podsmpsg1]

He's an ass kissing goon.

[@JamesTobiasStewart]

It helps that, as Daniel points out, Yu was (before the senility kicked in) the most reasonable and benevolent of the Goa'uld System Lords (yes that's not saying a lot given what the rest of them are like, but he still looks better by comparison) & given that First Primes are expected to accompany their master to diplomatic summits, Oshu likely knows that. So he has spent his life serving a master; who he has reason to believe is better than any System Lord who could realistically replace him & a lifetime of training that his place; is to serve. If anything Yu's relative lack of sadistic cruelty compared to system lords like Apophis (and his fierce opposition to the omnicidal Anubis), only makes it easier for Oshu to justify staying at his side.

[@RetroActiveGM]

@@JamesTobiasStewart Yu wasn't benevolent, but his domain was on the other side of the galaxy. Between Earth and Yu was Yu's rival Goa'ulds. Getting tip-offs from the Tau'ri, allowing Teal'c to live and kill Imhotep were just moves by Yu. It was convenient for him to work the Tau'ri if it served his interests.

[@Deltarious]

I often wondered if Oshu was in Teal'c's position before SG-1 showed up: He knows the truth and tries to save lives where he can while knowing full well some of the things he does are evil. Perhaps he is not so noble but I think it would've been a nice plot thread

[@Lemon_Inspector]

They've had working, 100% genuine made-on-Earth hyperspace drives since the first episode of season 6. Steve Bacic's offer is late by about 2 years.

[@Ragitsu]

What's funny is that the Prometheus' hyperdrive was lifted from an Al'kesh.

[@TheValentineEnemy]

Ahh yes the one that ran on Naquadria...I might be wrong here but didn't that thing uhh....explode in a fiery inferno? So much so it scared the planet they were close to to shoot missiles at them? Fighter version was only good for jumping short distances. Nooot a life insurance.

[@Ragitsu]

@@TheValentineEnemy "Ahh yes the one that ran on Naquadria...I might be wrong here but didn't that thing uhh....explode in a fiery inferno?" They were still using it as of Season 7 (so, _past_ the Season 6 incident you had in mind).

[@Cailus3542]

Not quite. The Earth hyperdrive was functional, but still far less sophisticated and reliable than Goa'uld hyperdrives. Prometheus was (just) capable of interstellar flight though, which the Asgard deemed sufficient to give Earth decent hyperdrives.

[@joec9693]

I would say you are half right. They did have a human designed hyperdrive reverse engineered from Goa'uld tech. But they only had the one and they lacked the construction facilities to mass produce BC-303 ships so being offered as many hyperdrives as they want would speed up construction considerably. However by the end of the season they would have gotten a new Daedalus class ship underway that uses a far more advanced Asgard hyperdrive. So the offer would have been outdated within a year anyway.

[@JounLord1]

I liked this episode because it showed just how things had changed. The Tau'ri were knocking off System Lords left and right, the Tok'ra were operating openly, and the Jaffa Rebellion was in full swing. That combined with Anubis rampaging around had the System Lords knowing their power was quickly disappearing. Earth was quickly becoming a power in the galaxy to go toe to toe with more advanced foes and win. So these System Lords show up trying to get their own measure of protection but are still too arrogant to negotiate intelligently. Most be quite the system shock to after thousands of years be begging your "slave" for help. I did kinda hope Steve Bacic's Goa'uld would join the SGC when he requested sanctuary, when have been an interesting dynamic having to work with a somewhat reformed monster that is technically still in a stolen body.

[@benjaminbierley2074]

I also think they also reallllly disliked coming to earth since the last time they were here we kicked them out, which probably still stings their pride.

[@tompearce5418]

"More System Lords have fallen in the past four years than in the previous four centuries." Starting with the death of Ra, which ended the Second Goa'uld Dynasty that had lasted almost ten thousand years, the Stargate Program basically destabilised the established order of the Milky Way everywhere they went. Each assassinated System Lord triggered a struggle for territory among the survivors; each liberated population made it harder for their feudal political system to function, culminating in the Jaffa Rebellion and the adoption of constitutional government by the Free Jaffa Nation.

[@TheValentineEnemy]

For someone who haven't done any interstellar diplomacy Weir sure didn't have any issues playing with them system lords. Also it is cute that Yu wasn't exactly wrong here since Anubis was still playing around in the shadows.

[@Ragitsu]

"Does he know something we don't?"

[@bangscutter]

The art of diplomacy is not that different whether it's on earth or interstellar. It power plays and bargaining until parties arrive at a settlement they can all agree on.

[@Zoras88]

He called him that, because he knows there's no difference between the two.

[@podsmpsg1]

Anubis wasn't dead. Ba'al was probably in Anubis's employ. They really thought it would be that easy to kill Anubis?.

[@wchan39]

It would be interesting to imagine what could happen if the System Lords actually took up Dr Weir's offer and later on, Earth owns and manages what was Ba'al's domains and assets.

[@LordSpleach]

Yu actually right about Anubis

[@holyshades6462]

Weir was such a badass in this sequence.

[@detsalb5789]

this is sucha 180 from the last time the system lords came to chat love it

[@mitche5007]

Dr. Weir knows how to play hardball :-)

[@jeffpeltier6570]

i mean in the end anubis was puppeting bal so Yus not wrong really

[@RoosterMontgomery]

Amaterasu was without a doubt the most beautiful female goddess with Nirrti being a close second. The women of Stargate could make a man Kree!

[@Ragitsu]

"Ugly? What's that?"

[@kineticdeath]

lets be honest here, who wouldnt want to be Weirs First Prime?

[@Ragitsu]

What is her symbol?

[@RoosterMontgomery]

@@Ragitsu Probably just a 'W'.

[@icer1249]

the gouald are giving the tauri a little too much credit. They dont have battle ships (space wise) and have no means of mass production to the point they can defend planets from an all out attack. And even if they could make the battleships. Before the asgard gave them weapons they couldnt even take down a few alkesh and gliders and not once did they take down a hatak. The only advantage the tauri ships had was there sheilds

[@Verbose_Mode]

But here's the thing... _they don't know that._ All they know is that they have spacefaring ships, advanced tech nearly rivaling their own that is advancing faster in a year than theirs does in a century, access to Ancient weapons, and have kicked the ass of every System Lord that's ever crossed them. They _have_ to give them credit because Weir's bluff (it was a bluff) could be true and even if it's not it will be in a year or two.

[@dragon22214]

@@Verbose_Mode a bluff is what 90 of what politics is take Putin and the nuke threats anyone with half a brain knows he well never do it it would kill Russia as everyone else

[@chuchulainn9275]

​@@Verbose_Mode Not to mention that the humans have proven to be very resourceful and have better ground troops and tactics. Their guerilla and covert tactics have been far more effective despite the Go'auld's technogical advantage.

[@wolf58th21]

Rhade where are your bone blades?

[@LyingTube]

Wonder how different the rest of the show would have been if Stargate Command actually did get a System Lord-esque position with commensurate Jaffa manpower...

[@sandraengels9442]

Camulus had a clone. This clone was killed by Ba'al.

[@develynseether4426]

Wow, as advanced as that huh? You're offering tech of ships we've already analysed, studied and not to mention were able to destroy in our first year..... If we want dated tech, we'll buy from the North Koreans thanks. 😂

[@podsmpsg1]

Yu is senile. Senile humans are bad enough, but a senile Goa'uld is a lot worse. Like Daniel said "they can't be trusted, especially not a crazy one".

[@marvlouslie2053]

Wait...wait.. was Amatarasu giving Daniel a side eye?

[@dmanc85]

She wanted to try out some Tau'ri D.

[@studinthemaking]

What the Asian bad lady actress name?

[@manticore4952]

Kira Clavell

[@sandraengels9442]

Camulus is an Tok'ra and not an Goa'uld☝️

[@Stephen64138]

This is one of the weakest dialogue I've heard in Stargate... This is so stupid. Even if she tries to bluff them by asking for Baal's territory if Earth defeats him, there is no reason for the Goa'uld to fall for it! They function as a traditionnal feudal society. Yeah, there are rules, but in the end the Ultima Ratio fixes the rules. You own what you can own. ... ... Earth would get nothing that we are not ready to fight every inch for... Duh..

[@Tuning3434]

The System Lords literally swallowed all their pride to beg the Tau'ri off all people, to fight Ba'al for (or with) them. The Tau'ri , a former slave race they know has defeated the biggest threats ever just weeks earlier with a superweapon of unrivaled power (and is at the same time trying to fight the major Replicator danger too), and has done more to build up an active treat to their rule in years, than other races have done in millennia. Or they actually believe the Tau'ri are able to defeat Ba'al just like they did with his more powerful predecessor Anubis, and in due time, wil be able to take effective control of such a large piece of territory. OR they humiliated themselves by lowering them into a dialogue with the Tau'ri for no good reason whatsoever. I think this is very cleverly written, it shows that the Goa'uld believed they could use the Tau'ri because they assumed that they lacked ambition like the Asgard and appeasing them and leaving them alone would be enough to get the Tau'ri to take some of the damage, hold out their own, and maybe at best even defeat Ba'al just like Anubis. Weir forced them to define a better deal, because if their plan is to throw the Tau'ri under the bus and hope it works out in their favor, the Tau'ri might just continue to become an assertive threat like they have been showing to be able the last 7 years. There was no negotiation possible to counter Ba'al's ambition, and Weir just told them to not assume the Tau'ri would be non-consequential playthings either. Define a better deal with the System Lords taking a fair share of the fighting, and as a consequence earn themselves a fair share of the booty, or risk that the Tau'ri will repeat last months trick again (be it easy or at great cost) and have them become a dominant factor.

[@Stephen64138]

@@Tuning3434 You seem to haven't understood what I wrote... I'm saying that trying to enforce the ''You keep what you conquer'' with the Goa'uld, and them acting on it like if that was some sort of honor rule that they would have to respect is absurd and stupid. If Earth manage to Kill Baal and proclaim that all what he did own now belongs to Earth.. If we don't have the means to hold to them, in a day they will be seized by the neighbooring Goa'uld...

[@fdfac]

Crappy dialog

[@Ragitsu]

?

[@Jalgorn]

@@Ragitsu Too complex for him, her, they, whatever...