Starmie vs Cloyster - Pokemon Challenge Race

Today I'm trying something new. I got the viewer request to do a run of Pokemon Yellow with a Starmie, but I figured that would be too easy so I decided to spice it up a little bit and see if Starmie or Cloyster would beat the game faster.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Thanks to everyone who helped me learn that Venomoth is Bug/Poison. I promise to forget it every time that it shows up! hehe

[@alexisthetransgenderduelis4211]

Never forget or I will send a chansey using only pound request!

[@dannykrise9721]

@@alexisthetransgenderduelis4211 Jesus thats unnecessarily cruel lol

[@DeadLeeShooter]

And Blaine and giovani are notorious worst a.i.‘s in the pokemon world 🤣🤣 guard spec and potion spam

[@natedunn51]

Pretty sure it's bug poison flying psychic type

[@ScReamOut93]

thats an amazing formular. Keep it going and take my Sub kind Sir.

[@opmz200]

That starmie with surf, psychic, ice beam, and thunderbolt tho...

[@nateschendel4585]

Still a competitive moveset in gen 8 lol

[@N12015]

@@nateschendel4585 Just slap a life orb and analytic to destroy switches. I'm amazed on how well designed for competitive Starmie was: Good movepool, a good enough EV spread, good habilities and the only reason why is not used anymore is due to only having 100 special attack which is bad by today standars.

[@zee2744]

@@nateschendel4585 skill link and icicle spear/ rock blast would still probably be better with the right item lol

[@androsp9105]

i used this starmie for the gen 3 battle frontier. it's walled by shedinja

[@Chronobus]

@@androsp9105 Yeah I used it against Greta with Zangoose and Salamence. I was hella pissed when Starmie was my last pokemon and she sent out Shedinja. Had to bring in my Skarmory to deal with her next round.

[@davidthorn5554]

You should have used starmie and had jrose use cloyster and had the race that way. Still excited to watch.

[@jamesmorris1584]

I love this idea! Idk if they're friends or not but this is a great idea for future pokemon

[@unpopularfacts4461]

Jrose probably doesn't know Scott exists to be perfectly honest.

[@davidthorn5554]

@@unpopularfacts4461 no I bet he does his videos are not only similar but are also really good

[@saniakshay12]

@@davidthorn5554 JRose generally seems to be a lot more private than most of the other “poke tubers”. I think Chaotic meatball would love collabs given how active he is.

[@davidthorn5554]

@@saniakshay12 idk who that is I’ll have to look them up. But oh well a man can dream I guess. Anyways our boy Scotty tsunami is good enough on his own.

[@smgric6853]

Starmie is by no means a “glass cannon”. It’s actually pretty bulky and can be used as a tank with psychic, recover, thunder wave and ice beam

[@Glo0ze]

yeah "glass cannon" with 100 base spdef

[@zjean3417]

Its also the only pokemon in gen 1 OU that can survive a body slam+hyper beam from tauros.

[@smgric6853]

@@zjean3417 explain. Golem, Rhydon, Exeggutor, Lapras, and Snorlax are all more bulky and can survive that combo, I’m not even sure Starmie can

[@ShiningJudgment666]

@@smgric6853 Starmie has something none of them have called Recover so that little tidbit of information is important otherwise, it's not much of a feat. You can add the legendary birds to that list too as they're all bulkier than Starmie too though Zapdos is the only really good one of the 3. Especially if you can snatch something like Ice Beam with Mimic and not get paralyzed or frozen along the way.

[@zjean3417]

@@smgric6853 I forgot to add that it's the only Pokemon that can switch into Tauros and not get threatened by a super effective attack from tauros standard move set as well. Also golem isn't part of OU anymore.

[@TheWispGuy]

Never saw Cloyster's back sprite before in this game. It looks like some sort of weird sandwich.

[@SoraDonaldGoofy99]

Thought Starmie may most likely win, but I liked that Cloyster preserved the lead while it did

[@SaerasChuu]

Completely unsurprised Starmie caught up in the late game, Gen I Psychic type with high speed? Practically written on the wall. I'm actually impressed Cloyster managed to maintain a lead for so long and keep up until the end. I like the idea of these VS runs for Pokemon we know aren't crap, since... doing a single run with a good Pokemon isn't terribly exciting unless you get terrible luck. I like this idea. Maybe there should be a three-way race between Ninetales, Arcanine, and Rapidash, since they're all 2-stage fire types? That said, this video felt a bit bare-bones compared to the singles, acutally. Maybe it would be better to take it battle by battle, side by side, so we can see and compare the two in individual fights? Instead of flipping back and forth, even if you don't outright talk about one side. Otherwise, both sides feel truncated and rushed. When talking about one, we can still see how the opponent faired and makes it feel more like an actual race and not quite as segmented.

[@zjean3417]

In gen 1 Ninetales would probably win but in gen 3 kanto Arcanine would probably win.

[@christophhofland8890]

gen 1 psychic, high speed and great movepool. The only one Scott missed with the challenge rules is recovery, which would have made allot of starmies weaknesses this run so much simpler.

[@bfcdbilmqetzptycotrt8265]

text

[@jakerockznoodles]

I like the vs idea. It makes it interesting, and the fact you are measuring "real time" as opposed to game clock time means that relying too much on luck can be punishing. I'm interested for a Pinsir/Scyther run. Pinsir was one of my faves from gen 1 due to its design and I was so disappointed when Scyther got an evolution and Pinsir never did (I'd personally hoped for a dual Dark typing at the time, because that was the other "new" gen2 type and kid me thought the idea of stronger evil Pinsir would be the coolest thing 😅)

[@enerc2333]

and in fact, to date there is no Pokémon of that combination of types, bug / dark, ariados it would have been great to have that type, although seeing a Pinsir with that combination would have been good. Extra fact: you knew that in the beta of Pokémon gold, at the beginning heracross was going to be the evolution of Pinsir, but in the end they changed their minds and made it a different Pokémon, which would have been good , is that they would have made pre-evolutions of these Pokémon, since the 2nd gen was characterized by implementing the offspring of Pokémon, and there were several, but they were so pressured that they did not want that, the game will take 6 years to come out, and in the rush, they made the 2nd gen somewhat mediocre, one more year of work and waiting, that generation would have been the best.

[@92name]

Cloyster is a tank, but Starmie is one of the best special sweepers in gen 1. No contest I think

[@ShiningJudgment666]

It's more of a cleaner than a sweeper. It lacks the raw power of something like Alakazam but its power lies in its combination of super effective coverage, power and speed. It's also 3rd fastest out of the good Gen 1 Pokemon.

[@et34t34fdf]

@@ShiningJudgment666 It doesnt really count, but, with tradebacks you can have Alakazam with the elemental punches, solving the coverage issue. Makes alakazam really op(well, more op than usual).

[@ShiningJudgment666]

​@@et34t34fdf Zam really only needs help against stuff that resist its STAB and can take its hits all day. Special attackers really can't do a lot against Zam with Special attacks since it has no Special weaknesses in Gen 1. Ice Punch gives Zam a better time against Exeggutor and Grass types not weak to Psychic and ThunderPunch hits Water types not weak to Psychic harder like Starmie. Fire Punch mostly covers what Ice Punch would.

[@et34t34fdf]

@@ShiningJudgment666Yeah, the punches are only for other psychic-types, neutral STAB psychic is about as strong as SE elemental punches. But the advantage it would give against the big psychic types would be pretty big though. Fire punch covers very little that ice punch doesn't, Jynx is the main one, and i guess Paras, but i mean, who cares about that one.

[@beta511ee4]

@@ShiningJudgment666 Any reason you’re speaking in competitive terms?

[@Alienldr]

Pokemon with Trade evolutions don't stop learning moves. They learn the exact same moves at the exact same levels as their previous evolution in this gen. Then after some moves get swapped out or maybe a move gets added, but still the same levels. Stone evolutions stop learning moves for the most part in the gen. That much is correct.

[@travisalexander6440]

If you had any friends, this was an important distinction. Trading (then trading back if you didn't want the boosted XP) for Alakazam, Gengar, Machamp, and Golem before level 30 and with no loss of learnset could crack the game open pretty quickly.

[@neilywhizz]

Best challenge I’ve seen in ages. Thank you! I think crits with Scyther will see it win the next versus challenge. A great idea, and I can’t wait to watch this channel grow.

[@MikeHesk742]

Not really seeing other comments about this. I think the main reason Blaine really slowed down Cloyster but not Starmie is that 2nd Ice typing on Cloyster. Gen 1 has a bug where it will say "not very effective" based on the primary type only, when in reality Cloyster was receiving neutral damage from fire all along. The gap in Special stat between the 2 pokemon wasnt big enough to explain how Starmie was tanking so much better.

[@JJ-qo7th]

Not just Special, but Starmie also has 20% more base HP than Cloyster.

[@whitehawk7694]

Just came to re-watch this vid, when searching "Starmie" in KZbin search, this video came up third. Great work Scott, your channel has become so much more since this vs run. Congratulations. I look forward to further vids 😁

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

It’s been a journey! I can’t wait to revisit these two.

[@Fullmetaldigimon]

Hey man. Venemoth is bug/poison you could've just used psychic on it with starmie.

[@DeadLeeShooter]

I said this as soon as I saw venemoth up lol venom vene gives it away.

[@aBadPlayer]

@@DeadLeeShooter It's VENOM+oth, not VENEmoth. It's even more obvious. haha

[@DeadLeeShooter]

@@aBadPlayer 🤣🤣 damn I wasn’t paying attention!

[@olavjorvik94]

Crazy how so many poketubers don't know it's type... -.-

[@johnapple6646]

For most of my childhood I thought it was a psychic type lol. It must have been because Sabrina has it, and it can use Psychic moves

[@cameronno6039]

I like the addition of "real time" but "game time" and level are also important for comparisons. Also, I would consider either learning to glitch the LT Surge cans and other luck related sections of the game or remove them from the real time assessment in order to get the best comparison.

[@zeaferjones1404]

Great video!!! I feel like Spike Cannon would have helped your Cloyster run because its much better than double edge.

[@Mr.Not.Perfect]

I really liked this format, making it way more exciting and interesting compared to a solo run with one of these strong Pokémon. Looking forward to another one of these!

[@inventiveusername5191]

I'd love to see a rerun of Starmie, perhaps vs Lapras this time. Scott's play has improved so much in the past two years and I think those two top-flight water types could post really good times.

[@jellyg0d]

Great video! I was specifically looking for Cloyster content because I have never used it myself and ended up finding this cool challenge run. I really enjoyed watching it, your editing and narration are really good and now you have a new subscriber! Can’t wait to check out your other videos

[@chrisdaignault9845]

I’m sure you know by now, but for the sake of the algorithm I’ll note that magneton does not resist surf, Starmie gets STAB on both surf and psychic, and surf has higher power than psychic. So special drops and crits notwithstanding, surf is indeed better. Well done using ice beam on that pesky grass flying on Koga’s team though. He gets me every time.

[@iBenjamin1000]

"I needed rest, so I replaced psychic..." removing psychic on a psychic pokemon in gen...aight

[@joesbadatvideogames]

Fun to see these two go head to head. It makes me curious about Poliwrath vs Politoad in GSC or FRLG.

[@marcisbravo9445]

Mad that you did my boy Cloyster dirty by including that 25 minutes of pensiveness. Great vid tho; I love this channel and I watch daily!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

This was my first vs. Video, it’s pretty rough. Can’t wait to do replays with both of them!

[@marcisbravo9445]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon Your channel is one of my favorite on KZbin, and it is nice to know that you REALLY do read EVERY comment! Have a great day!

[@mn_seahawk25thehawk64]

Ah a classic story of “it’s not how you start, it’s how you finish”

[@anusthing]

That's what she said

[@luissaldivar2808]

You got something special here brotha! Enjoying this videos very much.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Thanks so much Luis

[@Krisspear]

Really like the race format. You sound so genuine, kind and real, which is nice. Keep up the good content!

[@jaidencarvalho1761]

Awesome video! Really enjoyed this kind of speed run comparing 2 of my favorite water types! Some suggestions for future content perhaps could be Gengar vs Alakazam, Tauros vs Persian or Snorlax, Gyarados vs Lapras or Dragonite, etc. Look forward to watching more of these!

[@sirjashugan0]

I'm so psyched by Scyther VS Pinsir Really good content 👍

[@Megacliff]

Commenting before watching. This is so unfair of a match up. Starmie is an absolute beast. Even less fair if you start as Staryu and learn recover/minimize before evolving. Can't wait to watch!

[@escapecamper]

wow this guy is great at the game. he really has a good thought process around the game and he puts together really intelligently done videos. the data and the methodology and stuff is rigorous and we trust his results.

[@msepol1168]

Just watched the first 6 minutes of the video and I'm surprised by how this is going! Finished it now. Congratulations for your content. Really fun and engaging!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Yeah the opening really surprised me as well!

[@mortamarkahn]

Yaaaa I REALLY enjoyed this video. It was really interesting to see two Pokemon that are similar, yet also very different match up side by side. I was actually surprised about the first half of the video, and I'm very much looking forward to Pinsir vs Scyther! How bout also doing one with a type I don't see you use much! Ninetales vs Arcanine?? Awesome video!

[@SlasherLink119]

I feel like after I left the comment asking if the Flying/Grass thing was an inside joke, the KZbin algorithm slowly guided me, video by video, to the origin of this inside joke...lmao... Love your vids...

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Hahah well done KZbin algorithm!

[@MabusTheDark]

Yes, please do more of these with pokemon like this! I didn't expect Cloyster to be that close to Starmie at all.

[@saniakshay12]

Damn I like both of them but cloyster looked so cool and mysterious in gen 1 so... GO CLOYSTER!

[@senzu34goat62]

GG Scott the Starmie gang will always prevail and one recommend race would be the gen1 3 eevee evolutions with you and 2 other people

[@fOk0dAzZ]

Flareon sucks tho

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I'm totally down to collaborate. Notice me other Poketubers!!

[@iantaakalla8180]

Flareon still is bad in Gen 8

[@shikishinobi]

Starmie is in my top 6, so am glad it won. It is just so much more versatile than Cloyster, even though Cloyster was more effective early game. Well done!

[@wiseguise5960]

I have been binging your videos. I really like this kind of content 👍.

[@senzu34goat62]

HI SCOTT. I'm giving the edge to Starmie because 1. It is a psychic type and that's op in gen 1. number 2. It can learn things like ice beam, psychic, and thunderbolt. 3. I'm pretty sure it's faster than closter.

[@willstanton8912]

I like this style of video. It's different than all of the other challenge videos.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Figured I should try to be a bit creative... Jrose still did something similar with the Nidos though :(

[@willstanton8912]

Yeah, but there are plenty of other comparisons you could do if you wanted. It doesn't matter to me though, I'll watch no matter what!

[@giglymeshtalrac]

js this is how you blow up on youtube, these speed run can you with only videos are incredible and refreshing.

[@cherioke6227]

Thought I had to trade evolve to get a cloyster when I was a kid and I didnt have any friends to trade with rip, love the series KEEP IT UP!!!!

[@brunolepri8177]

Psychic, thunderbolt, ice beam, and surf. The perfect offensive moveset of gen 1

[@andersonantunesdeleu8591]

Wow Scott, Armor was simply great! But I admit Cloyster did surprised me! Almost all the time ahead of Starmie, I didn't expect that!

[@kolibri5523]

Lets be honest, Starmie and Cloyster are cool as f*ck, happy that they delivered in this playthrough.

[@freshwatersalad4297]

This must have taken so much work. Thanks for the content dude.

[@ryanbowen4029]

This is by far my favourite video you've done to date

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Thanks so much! Another similiar one coming soon :)

[@marcarthur100]

This ones one of the fun two woch videos u have done please do more like this

[@sirdumon7258]

Really nice video concept. Can‘t wait for Pinsire vs Scyther

[@RarutoUchiha2]

22:58 Careful there, if you roast Bruno that hard he may end being erased from existence XD

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Who’s Bruno?

[@ChibiRuah]

im glad that there was at least a little bit of a fight from cloyster and they they did well early to add some tension to the video. I do find this style video to be a great idea when the 2 pokemon are clearly good enough to win on their own but also close enough that you dont know who will win. I would say doing it again be cool to see.

[@AJUniverse]

Rewatching this one soon after watching Machamp vs Golem. It's interesting with all of the ways Gen 1 is derpy that its offensive/defensive counterparts seems so evenly matched for the most part.

[@Foxywaterable]

Man your voice is so relaxing.

[@salamanje]

no homo

[@TrueNomadSkies]

I feel this video proved why Starmie was always so good in this generation and probably stayed good even in later games. Its typing of water/psychic and incredible move pool (including a stab psychic and surf) lets you avoid a bad match up against anything other than Jolteon/other mono electrics, and with blizzard or ice beam you're also getting a super effective attack on Zapdos for arguments sake talking about another popular electric choice. It can also learn recover and rest (the former being something not that many have access to), has good special & speed, wins mirror matches against other waters using thunder/thunderbolt, and resists some of the best attacks in the generation.

[@iantaakalla8180]

It also shows as to why Cloyster is so one-note once it got shell smash. No matter its amazing movepool, it will get knocked out before it does something if attacked by a Special move of which there were a lot more since Gen 4. It also is part Ice which dooms it. It sorely needed that speed to be useful, and therefore became a definition of a setup glass cannon and nothing else except in lower tiers.

[@TrueNomadSkies]

@@iantaakalla8180 I don't know anything past gen 2, but short of some godly ability or held item that only it can use, I can't see it being more of a cool novelty either. Given how easy the early games are, one could very well have fun with clamp and the water/ice moves, but I don't even recall it being that easy to find yourself with anyway, so it doesn't even benefit from being an early team member like Raticate or the Nidorans could be. It's such an unfortunate life for a really cool and memeworthy design.

[@iantaakalla8180]

In Generation 5, Cloyster got Shell Smash. It also later received moves like Bullet Seed and stuff, and Skill Link as an ability. As such, its only path forward was literally make itself a meme and use Shell Smash to set up then all the Skill Link moves to hit anything that exists as a Pokémon.

[@TrueNomadSkies]

@@iantaakalla8180 Haha that's funny. Meme forever, it seems.

[@derekcampbell2686]

Starmie is an example of a Pokémon thats been perfect since Gen 1. It is however highly reliant upon TMs and Surf. Surf, Psychic, Icebeam, and Thunderbolt is such good coverage. It becomes slightly less safe in later Gens.

[@blakeschwab7518]

man these old videos show how much u have improved, had a lot of the type chart wrong, such as thinking magneton resists surf.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Haha yeah. The old videos are pretty brutal. It's been a fun journey of growth and learning.

[@kulrigalestout]

Before watching: Starmie's stats are great, and has many moves to take advantage of its high Special. Cloyster starts with Aurora Beam, which will help with all those kids with birds and bugs. I figure that Cloyster will be alright in the early game, but lose progressively more and more time as the game continues. After watching: Was not expecting Cloyster to do so well throughout the entire game. At all. Good show, Bivalve Pokemon! As for the Pinsir vs Scyther race, my money's on Scyther. That said, I really, really hope Pinsir wins!

[@BobbyBoy1866]

I've nicknamed my rival Butt every time since seeing your videos

[@tylerhartman3034]

I feel like it's worth noting that even tho Cloyster was going faster for the majority of this run Starmie was consistently beating it at a lower level which means even tho Starmie wasn't going as fast it was still easier for Starmie to beat most of these challenges

[@iantaakalla8180]

It also highlights their strengths as well. Cloyster is a sweeper, so it can grind to the level it needs to be while still being competitive. Meanwhile, Starmie has a great movepool that allows it to take any challenge on which is why it was able to become faster as soon as Cloyster’s moveset wasn’t dominant. It is also worth noting that the furthest distance between the two Pokémon in favor of Cloyster was because of Lieutenant Surge’s puzzle, something that can eat up a lot of time, and Starmie still came back from that. It also had the higher special stat, and was also part-Psychic and not part-Ice. In particular, the Erika fight, the Koga fight, the Giovanni gym battle, Blaine fight, sixth rival fight, and Agatha fight are why Starmie was able to win against Cloyster’s early-game lead. Perhaps it helped that he hesitated for so long before battling the final battle, but it could have easily taken 30 minutes to get past the champion battle if he just went for it. In short, Starmie’s victory was guaranteed barring hax. Yes, Clamp would count as hax based on it not allowing the other Pokémon to move and it would still be in Starmie’s favor.

[@fluffyleopard33]

In gen 1, the AI will ALWAYS use a super effective move type against something even if it won’t do damage or work. So that might account for the reflects

[@Matthias.Abaddon]

I wonder what it would be like for other combos too! Wigglytuff vs. Clefable, Arcanine vs. Ninetails, Vileplume vs. Weepinbell, etc. Excited for Scyther vs. Pinsir!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

There are so many cool combos, I'm excited to do more of them.

[@arthurm.8007]

Scyther is much better than Pinsir, Pinsir doesn't learn Bug moves

[@denismcdonald1454]

Let me just start by saying I think this is a great idea for a challenge! However, I think some consistency issues could have been handled differently to give a more "accurate" result. Obviously, nothing is ever perfect...but if the goal is to see which Pokemon gets through the game faster, the game should probably be played as consistently as possible. Starmie could've done it even faster had you gotten better luck with the trash cans (I know it was like 2 minutes, but that would've meant Starmie actually took the lead before the E4), and Koga could've gone better too had you used Psychic on Venomoth instead of Surf/Ice Beam. Cloyster probably didn't need to have those extra fights in Viridian Forest, and using Clamp on Brock over Aurora Beam could've saved some time. Skipping Misty and/or Lt. Surge and doing them later, as well as using Blizzard over Ice Beam possibly would've made a difference for both Pokemon as well. Definitely want to see more of these videos, but I almost wonder if it would be better to count "in-battle time only" to get a more accurate result? Is it fair to count out of battle time (trash cans, wild pokemon encounters, etc.) in a challenge like this? Just an idea...take it or leave it. I will continue to watch your videos either way. :)

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Interesting idea about counting only battle time. I'll think about ways to make it more accurate.

[@nateschendel4585]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon love your run just completed Kenya run itemless also attempted near minimum battles +2 will explain what those two extras were n why My Kenya had 8 hp 19 att 10 def 17 in both specials and 16 speed this was after vitamin boosts so yes the ivs were much worse than listed Means no x items no pots elixirs or other pokemon post Whitney for extra challenge Lance was by far the worst 48 attempts till success Money is also very stretched in this run

[@nateschendel4585]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon could you have mimiced earthquake or dig from sandslash to deal with champion fight for cloyster Think about it that fight took 25 minutes and it would have dealt with magneton and flareon in one hit bud That being said it is really hard to make split second decisions like that in a run Like I know this isn't easy I actually wonder if mimic cloyster was the ticket, psychic vs gengars amnesia for lorelei so she doesn't destroy you Agility vs lance 95 att n 85 special

[@samuelswinamer4939]

I agree. These videos are very cool, but I think you should take some action to make the time more accurate. When you grind a couple levels with Cloyster early it supplemented that aurora beam advantage it had early on.... another option would be to really perfect your path and buy repels. (Not identical pathing but close.) i am glad you mention areas where you make mistakes so a viewer could mentally adjust a stat... but yeah, not grinding viridian forest with Starmie didn't matter for Brock but lost you a ton of time going to Bill's

[@luisr.sandoval4337]

That an interesting concept, the versus playthrough. I think it would be a closer one, yeah, starmie has a better moveset, but cloyster has clamp and spike cannyon.

[@chrisnelson93]

Love the idea behind this, looking forward to more!

[@jakeyyt7945]

Your content is great!! I can't wait to see this channel pop off

[@misaluv1254]

love your videos due to your calm voice!keep up the great work

[@shanoc5902]

Hehe, smart way to do a Starmie run and keep things interesting, as there wasn't really any question on if it could win this game solo. If you've seen MDB's playthrough of Stadium Starmie is an amazing gen 1 pokemon due to it's speed, high special, and type coverage (not only having the glorious Beam/Bolt coverage option but *STAB* psychic too! STAB on water moves also gives it a pretty solid option for enemy psychic pokemon), but seeing how well Cloyster did in the early game was interesting, but makes sense given how TM dependent Starmie is. You probably could have shaved Cloyster to be under 2 hours if you remembered Double Edge at the end, one of the advantages it had over Starmie, but between Lorlei and the Champion's Cloister the final 5 fights were just destined to have Cloyster lose the race as it can be easily stalled out.

[@adrov849]

Being someone who literally grew up with Pokémon and playing Gen 1 games on my game boy, Starmie is and always will be my favourite Pokémon. It made the game so easy. Psychic, Surf, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam and it was gg.

[@Sommers27]

I quite enjoyed this style of video. Would definitely like to see more

[@Pyxis10]

I really like this. It's a more unique take on a challenge run.

[@Peanutpatch]

It's a tough call. Starmie has better offensive stats, but cloyster has slightly better starting moves. Starmie's only good move at first is water gun, where as Closyer gets clamp which is basically wrap with STAB, and aurora beam, a weaker ice beam. Both of them learn nothing from leveling up as they're stone evolutions so Tms will be Vital. My prediction is that closyter will do better at first, being tankier and having better starting moves, but Starmie will completely outpace cloyster once more TMs like thunderbolt, psychic, and ice beam become available. Thunderbolt and psychic especially as they allow for coverage that cloyster just doesn't have. Lorelei will be a wall for cloyser, but nothing to starmie for example.

[@nickburns8253]

@PitStain Lorelei is not a wall for Cloyster if you know how to use it. Clamp + Toxic are a deadly combo in gen 1, plus Cloyster will resist all of Lorelei's special attacks except for Slowbro's psychic if you're playing Yellow. To add to that Cloyster's sky high defense also works wounders at tanking the normal attacks of Jynx's Thrash, and Lapras's Body Slam. The only one of Lorelei's pokemon I can see Cloyster struggling with is Slowbro with Psychic if you're playing Yellow and that's if Clamp misses. Cloyster is faster than Slowbro so it can trap it with the Clamp/Toxic combo.

[@Peanutpatch]

@@nickburns8253 I’m aware it can easily beat her. But he selected clamp and never taught it toxic. And the point of this was a race. Toxic stall isn’t a good idea if you’re going for speed.

[@nickburns8253]

@@Peanutpatch I'm aware that Toxic stall isn't a good strategy for speed, but he lost a ton of time with Lorelei and the champion's Cloyster. If he had used the Clamp/Toxic strat ONLY for Lorelei and the champion's Cloyster, his Cloyster's time could have been better.

[@Tsunderebolt]

you know a pokemon is something special when it stays in OU for 6 straight generations

[@iantaakalla8180]

And the other Pokémon literally retroactively is built for a meme so OP it means King’s Rock will never be competitively used on Smogon again.

[@tiemen9095]

Hi Scott, I would love to see a "how fast can I beat pokemon red/blue with Victreebel". It shouldn't be a lot of effort to make, since it is really competitive in this category!

[@ChoosenOneStudios]

Thank you ^-^ Your Raichu pronunciation is actually appreciated. I know it's silly, but it mildly grated on me. You rock! :D

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I'll do my best to learn the pronunciations! I'm going to get a lot more wrong in later generations, especially Arceus with the new game haha....

[@MrGoodCompany]

Great video. I'm glad KZbin recommended this to me. So you got yourself another subscriber!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Welcome aboard!

[@donhooplah]

First off I liked this concept, it is something thats a bit different (plus it is nice to see stronger pokemon in one of these style of runs) I also think a lot of this was impacted by the terrible gen 1 AI, I think perhaps moving to doing fire red/ leaf green would be better (I know you like badge boost but still...)

[@jameswilson9661]

This was great, fantastic idea. Good work 😁👍

[@morkoski6046]

The Reflect spam might be explained because the AI sees Cloyster's "main" (the first) typing - water - and chooses not to use fire moves against it, which leads to the psychic type Reflect. AI uses a different logic first turn, so that's why the flamethrower happened (also explains Lorelei's first 2 moves everytime) Not a glitch in the sense it works as it was intended back then, but just generally dumb AI. There are some videos around breaking G1 AI down

[@acumenium8157]

Magneton doesn't resist Surf. Surprisingly, Electric (and its later Steel-type) do not resist Water. Making Surf and Psychic as strong. However you were right that Psychic is a better play because the chance of a Special down really cripples the heck out of Magneton's Thunder(bolt). This was really interesting. Outcome was very obvious due to the absurd movepool of Starmie, but my shelly boi held up well. :)

[@olavjorvik94]

"... like trade evolutions, stop learning new moves, once they've evolved." Eeeeh, no... Stone evol.? Yes. Trade? No. Traded evolutions learn EXACTLY the same. At least most of them. Even in Gen 1.

[@solgaleo3533]

Jynx vs Mr.Mime would be interesting. I see Jynx and Mr.Mime as sort of a duo.

[@marcmckenzie609]

Maybe if you stopped calling Venomoth a flying psychic type you’d have realized that Starmie’s psychic was super effective 😂🤣. Watching you press thunder bolt and ice beam repeatedly while psychic was a 2 hit was derp.

[@oatsen1618]

Correct me if I'm wrong but magnetron doesn't resist water, right?

[@sand747]

You're correct

[@JFHeff]

Nor does it resist it in later gens. How can Scott not know this?

[@thehouseofstark]

Actually thought this was really cool. I knew spin on your tried and tested concept of pokemon speed runs

[@carlbusch2295]

Starmie is my favourite Pokémon I would love to see a livestream run with it.

[@lexlax3498]

STARMIE WOULD GET CRUSHED I THINK

[@mikeburns4874]

Yo loved this idea! I know it’s been done in similar ways obviously but this was coo imo!

[@jamesmc7471]

Taught it be Cloyster vs kingler

[@MatthewJemilo]

I'd love to see this challenge revisited with your new style and better understanding. Maybe start with their first forms and allow them to evolve?

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Both will be revisited, but not reaching each other. There are other contenders for them to face the second time around!

[@MatthewJemilo]

Holy shit you responded to a comment on a year old video? Damn you really do gotta read em all!

[@iantaakalla8180]

It also helps that an optimized Starmie run would leave Cloyster in the dark. Starmie is top tier; it has coverage and speed. Cloyster lacks both. Cloyster should not have been competitive with Starmie.

[@GabrielHdzLP]

Typical, you can't walk one step outside your home town, without finding a marine star, or a giant 🐚, poor prof oak. Wait a minute, that's actually possible, pallet town is close to the beach.

[@therealmorganofficial]

AWESOME idea for a Pokémon challenge! I may try one myself!

[@tiagocardosom]

Hey man very cool video idea. How bout Golem vs Rhydon? Exeggcutor vs Slowbro ? Fearow vs Pidgeot?

[@bitterzombie]

Really like these vs playthroughs, I'd love to see vulpix vs growlithe / ninetales vs arcanine. Vileplume vs Victreebel would be a lot of fun to watch too

[@LordMekenshi]

At this point it should just be called the badge boost unintended feature

[@awes0mechr1s]

I'm assuming the reflect spamming has to do with type effectiveness? I think I've heard MDB talk about that in some of his gen 1 runs. The AI doesn't necessarily prioritize damaging moves but type effectiveness, even if the move doesn't damage. So with Blaine, his Arcanine's fire moves are resisted but reflect is psychic so its neutral? Although I think Arcanine has double edge, which would also be neutral so idk I could be way off.

[@Peanutpatch]

My prediction seemed to hold true. I just didn’t expect cloyster to hold the lead for THAT long. Crazy stuff.

[@davidthorn5554]

That fire spin miss actually made me slightly nervous lmao. I did enjoy this style. I prefer your normal but still enjoyed the whole video. I’m not one to recommend challenges but if it’s this type why not do both normal fossils then show how fast you can do it with aerodactyl. But I’d also like to see a electabuzz video not that I think it would be hard or anything.

[@suzig5702]

Starmie, stop slowing down the Cloyster with black outs!

[@jaycob1830]

These Pokémon are version exclusives in the remakes so yeah they are an actual pair

[@changyang4355]

Great video, but wouldnt it been better if Starmie vs Goldduck and Cloyster vs dewgong?