Scientists Discuss Music and the Origins of Language

[@StarTalk]

If early humans were jamming before they could talk, what do you think their first hit song would’ve been about?

[@jackwhitbread4583]

Trying to survive living alongside big predators for sure!! I only clicked because I saw Neandertals on the thumbnail, I see anything about Neandertals I click. I find the vast culture they had so fascinating and cool.

[@odysseus8944]

Hunter ft. Gatherer - The Stone

[@scribbler60]

Probably the biggest concern would be access to food, so I imagine the first "songs" were imitations of animal sounds in hopes of luring prey. I suppose - and this is pure guesswork, I have no evidence for this - hunting stories told around campfires incorporated these sounds.

[@ztublackstaff]

Amazing thought, “Bang the rocks together”. This first big hit. :)

[@mw9297]

Ooga booga

[@1haitian1]

As an artist and science nerd, this had been my favorite one so far. I learned a lot from this one.

[@coryclarksounds]

Me too! This one hit me HARD

[@wowzee898]

Thanks,, I suspect there are others here as well. I have university studies in four domains music is where it all started.

[@patgauvingeek]

I feel that I learned something that I can actually apply to become happier and even healthier. One of the best episodes. It took me by surprise too.

[@KingMoneyTFM]

Facts

[@SteveJonesIndeed]

Time to put on some music!

[@whatdamath]

I took Levitin's class back in the days when he just started teaching psychology and I still ponder about some of the stuff he taught us back then. It'd be nice to sit down and listen to his lecture one more time just to see what I missed in the last 2 decades

[@sinisamarovic]

Hi Anton, love your channel.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

good to see you here! wonderful person!

[@frogz]

hello wonderful person, thanks for all of the content!!

[@theanthropologist2446]

That's so cool!!

[@bradleyfitzik2447]

Hello wonderful person 👋

[@dannybodros5180]

You can clearly see that Chuck was really captivated by this subject.

[@AlGaragui]

Chuck really appreciates people with knowledge.

[@KYRO-rm2pu]

Me 3 😂

[@troyvasco1938]

Alot of "oh wow". And alot of good questions

[@I_report_scammers_spammers]

​@AlGaragui don't let Chuck fool you...he plays a big goofball, but the dude is SMART.

[@philbroscovak7024]

My eldest child spent his in-utereo time hearing the theme song to Star Trek TNG at the same time every night. For two years after birth every time that song came on TV he would turn and walk towards it like the Eloy hearing the dinner bell.

[@crispian67]

That's quite the picture you painted there. Cheers! Love the Star Trek/Time Machine references! Also, for some odd reason was sensing some Poltergeist vibes. 🤣

[@CheeseWyrm]

This discussion recalled for me the value of 'mind-wandering' in related concepts: 1. "A bored mind is a creative mind". It has been found that allowing (& appreciating the value thereof) phases of boredom allows the mind-wandering involved in creativity and problem-solving. Therefore, day-dreaming should *not* be off-handedly admonished, but rather diverted into productive pursuits; 2. Think of those times when you forget a word/name/concept that you were about to express ... "Oh, it's on the tip of my tongue! I just can't grasp it!". A common advice that often helps here is "Stop focussing on it, and it will come to you"; 3. *Ear-worms* Songs that you frustratingly can't get out of your head! (This is why advertising jingles are a thing). I have heard that you can resolve this by either listening & singing along to another song you like, OR singing the song to its completion (even just in your imagination). I'm not so sure these methods work that often for me...

[@MrFlottgote]

Chuck's spontaneous analogy to the waggle dance of bees is, truly, the most intelligent interjection I've heard on Star Talk so far. And that's saying something.

[@artmusic2]

🐝 bees' agree 🐝🐝

[@theanthropologist2446]

As a medical anthropologist with MS, I find this particular academic conversation beyond fascinating. I dare say I've found my new obsession. I want to get involved in this sort of work and research immediately. Thank you gentlemen.

[@drleesadr]

@@theanthropologist2446 me, too. I am beyond fascinated!

[@mybachhertzbaud3074]

I too have MS and have been using synthesizers and PC to keep my grey cells constantly rewiring.😁🎶🎹🎶Play On

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

@@theanthropologist2446 also have MS and have ADHD as well. I used to think that music relieved my pain because it shifted my focus. I have been seriously considering that the reason I experience such intense pain isn’t because my condition is so much worse than others, but because I hyperfocus on the pain, which causes me to “experience” it at a higher level than a neurotypical person might. I can have scans that matches someone else’s scans to a T, yet it seems that they are not nearly as impacted in their day to day life as I am. That started me thinking that if I control my adhd maybe my pain would be reduced So at age 49 I began the clinical journey to have my adhd properly diagnosed and charted so I could seek out treatment. I began Ritalin about 6 weeks ago. We are still titrating to full effect but I will tell you that it is already noticeable I have been a patient at a pain clinic for years. For idiopathic pain associated with autoimmune. Since about a week after starting the dose of Ritalin I could “feel” I noticed that the usage of my pain medication was about half what I usually take The following week we went up on Ritalin and I noticed that my pain medication usage went down again I am now taking 75% less than I have taken for years and I did that on my own. Without really thinking about it. Because I’m just going around and enjoying my day and not constantly thinking about how everything hurts and counting the minutes until my next dose.

[@clemente3]

What's MS?

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

@@clemente3 multiple sclerosis: It’s an autoimmune disease that impacts the brain and other various things. As example for me it causes muscle and joint pain, balance issues, and temporary blindness when I’m in a flare (lasts a few hours to a couple days) It causes brain fog also For others it can cause loss of mobility Because it depends on where the lesions form in the brain as to what is impacted.

[@patriciahuff5001]

This needs to be a longer episode or have a part two.

[@jool5941]

You can tell Neil doesn’t really care about it. He didn’t talk about his tweets once.

[@drleesadr]

Yes, please! This could be a whole semester course!!!

[@AlGaragui]

x1000

[@reinelibre1880]

I am actually feeling depressed and find myself smiling listening to this interesting discussion. The chemistry between the hosts and guest, the jokes and honest opinions from everyone make this show so easy to listen and follow. Thank you for sharing the knowledge and helping my mood.

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

Hey! Hang in there friend. Hope it gets better for you

[@reinelibre1880]

Thank you for your kind words.

[@ufukkeles6229]

"But the sun calls them Endegenous Spots" briliant man just briliant

[@ShawnRitch]

I am amazed at how articulate and well mannered, Daniel Levitin is. A true master on the art of conversation and communication.

[@CheeseWyrm]

Yes, I would be extremely happy, & intellectually stimulated to converse with Prof Levitin. It would be a privilege to listen to his lectures. The meeting of neuroscience, behavioural psychology, anthropology and music is a rewarding field to explore

[@ShawnRitch]

@@CheeseWyrm I agree

[@patrickstromann3836]

I KNEW it. I always had the suspicion that music, and ultimately "dance" (huge Dr. Evil air quotes), came before spoken words.

[@ebrock1972]

The concept of using music to get out of your head I got a personal antidote.. in the army always struggled qualifying at the range I did but just okay. Then one qualifying I decided to try to get my head out of it and just let muscle memory work. I started to sing a song in my head and I jumped from barely qualifying to shooting expert.. I wasn't overthinking it...

[@iamovementme1048]

"One good thing about music, is when it hits, you feel no pain" - Bob Marley and the Wailers

[@A.I.Remixed]

So Dopamine doesn't create or cause pleasure, it communicates pleasure from the body to the brain, so we as the person can interpret what is going on. Wow. I never thought about it that way.

[@AlGaragui]

It’s always a pleasure to engage in such thought-provoking discussions. The exploration of the origins of human communication as language intertwined with primitive music reveals a fascinating interplay of ideas. The harmonious sounds that emerge from these early forms of expression suggest a complex layering of consciousness, reflecting not only our innate desire to connect but also the profound impact of rhythm and melody on our social interactions. I look forward to further unraveling these connections.

[@drleesadr]

Yes, thank you from a PhD in communication who once studied the genetic/social role in masculine/feminine nonverbal behavior. Also, spent 20+ yrs documenting indigenous petroglyphs/petrographs. Just thank you ❤

[@AlGaragui]

@@drleesadr Lovely. Ah, a PhD in communication! How wonderful! I must say, meanwhile this humble and quietly decoders of mysteries of human interaction do that wonderful discoveries, the rest of us are still trying to find the ‘mute’ button on Zoom. Impressive. Thank you for sharing knowledge with us mere mortals! ❤

[@supernova1163]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON

[@AlGaragui]

Estas son las mañanitas que te canta la ciencia hoy, Neil deGrasse Tyson querido, ¡que el universo te dé su voz! El cosmos celebra contigo, tus ideas brillan sin par, que sigas inspirando mentes, con tu luz, ¡nos haces soñar! ¡Feliz cumpleaños! 🎉 -Al.

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

Also: as a person with chronic pain from autoimmune, I have found music can absolutely relieve my pain. I actually thought that it was because it pulled my focus away from the pain (Also adhd and have hyperfocus on things like my pain) This whole episode has been so cathartic. It’s nice to hear the science behind things that I have proved in my own life over and over again

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

I am loving this episode. My grandmother is 93 and has been taken down by Alzheimer’s like so many. Just like is being talked about here, she can still play the piano almost perfectly and sing. She still leads the hymns at church even though she doesn’t really know she is at church. She hears the hymn number, looks it up and starts singing and she is spot on. But just like was mentioned about Glen Campbell, she sometimes sings the last verse twice because she forgets we just sang it. (No one minds) Also: I have adhd and have a terrible time remembering simple things. Like where I sat my keys or purse A hack I learned a long time ago is if I sang a ridiculous line while placing them down I don’t forget. It’s like I may not remember where I put my keys but I remember where I was when I sang “Mary Had a Little Lamb”. That hack has made my life absolutely better. And now it seems I know why that works. Thank you Dr, Dr, and Lord for another excellent delivery and I already have my tickets for when you come to Knoxville :) see you soon!!

[@CheeseWyrm]

Yes. Music is a powerful mnemonic tool.

[@dmarie2231]

Music does heal. It helped heal 20 years of chronic illnesses I had.

[@teresamcmullan6549]

Can you tell me how? I need it.

[@dmarie2231]

@@teresamcmullan6549 listening to and watching ASMR and binaural beats will help a lot with calming your nervous system and releasing feel good chemicals when you don't feel good or are in pain. I also did the Gupta Program which is the world's first official brain retraining program. I used it for different chronic illnesses and that helped tremendously. You should look into it. There are scientific studies about the programs effectiveness on different chronic illnesses, anxiety, pain and so on. I never thought I'd get my health back. It's amazing 😃

[@myoura]

what song helped the most?

[@left_handed_jedi]

Back in the 90s I went on vacation to Ireland. On the flight over from the Midwest, I sat next to a gentleman whose grandfather self publishhed a book about Oghm, the marks on many standing stones scattered across Europe, were in fact songs and the runes were specific notes. I thought you might find it interesting.

[@JariDawnchild]

I'm interested. Music and ancient stuff? Count me in. Where can I find a copy of this book?

[@CheeseWyrm]

Aye, Oghm (or *Ogham* ) originated amongst the earliest Gaelic societies of Ireland. It was a treasured, sacred tradition carried & passed down amongst the Druids (& later, Bards)

[@probably-nobody]

I was 75% through this before I realized I’ve read one of his books, This is Your Brain on Music, twice. I guess I should pay attention to names more. 😬

[@The_Ubatron]

Thus had been not just a delight but a deeply profound conversation, carefully draped in light-hearted comedy. So many kernals of inspiration for further processing... Many thanks ❤🙏🏼

[@yoshthefireguy]

Michael Taut was the music director when I was at CSU! So great to hear his work with music therapy is helping with Parkinson's.

[@Dementia69]

Math is a universal language,why not music.

[@SpacemanXC]

Music _is_ math though.

[@Anway-NeverGiveUp]

Music is the language, music is the tradition, music is the culture, music is the way of living, music is the color & music is the means of communication to exhibit every aspects of universe, as a product of nature ( which can be materialistic or idealistic) but mathematics is a scientific & materialistic product of human consciousness, as a language of physics, to solve every complexities of universe.

[@rickjames6867]

There is math involved in music. Speed tempo number of BPM patterns repetitions etc. How we arrange them and what lyrics (if any) we choose what tempo we choose are all the personal creative touches. It's a fine mixture of art and math but math and art are basically everything if you are a numbers and analytics freak with an open mind like myself.

[@loudrimshot]

Music requires hearing. As long as someone can hear they can relate to music. However, math does not require any of the senses.

[@SpacemanXC]

@@rickjames6867 Tone tones are all frequencies which are governed by math as well.

[@LordRuric]

Happy Birthday Neil Degrasse Tyson.

[@michaelccopelandsr7120]

Haven't you heard? People born in October don't have birthdays. They have birthmonths!

[@SunPresager]

​@@michaelccopelandsr7120 why? How?

[@michaelccopelandsr7120]

@@SunPresager Why? Because October babies celebrate the whole month, not just one day. How? That's just the way it is. As it should be. ;-P

[@manolousi]

Great topic. This is a gem on KZbin. From personal experience I can say that my patients always remember the song they listened to before falling asleep for surgery. They are able to relax and create a powerful memory that never fades. They always choose the music. Great talk.

[@imdiyu]

6:18 I hear Bobby McFerrin's name. And, immediately, I stop worrying and I become happy. 😅

[@AlGaragui]

Eddie Murphy is the way.

[@coolbreeze5683]

I love this discussion. It makes you think about the music you have consumed throughout your life and the songs you remember the lyrics to decades after hearing it. It also makes you want to listen to more positive and uplifting music. All of the music about heartbreak and depression I listened to as a teen in the 90s probably didn't do good things for shaping my growing brain and mental well-being at the time 😬

[@Anway-NeverGiveUp]

Music is the language, music is the tradition, music is the culture, music is the way of living, music is the color & music is the means of communication to exhibit every aspects of universe, as a product of nature.( which can be materialistic or idealistic).

[@funghouls5498]

@38:00 Regarding stuttering, there was a fascinating researcher that I heard on CBC Radio One, Canada, who proved that children born predominantly left-handed, but forced to become right handed by their parents had significant stuttering thereafter until they managed to cope either through sports or singing, which helped overcome the stuttering.

[@theanthropologist2446]

Really? How fascinating. See, I even learn in the comments. Thanks

[@CheeseWyrm]

There is an amazingly enlightening TedTalk (TedXSydney) by Australian celebrity songstress *Megan Washington* , in which she discusses her experience with lifelong stuttering, and how she learned that singing her words allowed her to avoid the stutter. I have since learned that a significant number or performers (singers, actors, voice actors) have a stutter, and their art has given them the means to overcome/cope with it

[@arbreshaalushaj]

Nice… Hand/writing lessens the brains overload - that’s why a lot of people doodle or why fidgeting can help focus. Lots of science on this, really cool…

[@SuzA8110]

I remember the country singer Mel Tillis who stuttered. He didn't overcome the stuttering but was a very popular singer from the '50s to the '90's.

[@Phil-oz3xd]

Spectacular session with Dr. Levitin. Amazing.

[@HealingFrequenciesMusic-HFM]

You can feel music, too. Evelyn Glennie (deaf percussionist) says musical pitches resonate in various places within her body. That's how she knows what notes are being played. She performs barefoot to feel pitch and rhythm through the floor, too. This was a good discussion. Thank you!

[@ace_life7079]

I really enjoy all the various topics you address at Star Talk.This is one of my favorites. Please keep producing quality content so that we may enjoy it for the rest of our lives❤

[@olivermiles3552]

Music has saved my life on many occasions. Listening to music I love always gets me upbeat and as you were saying at the end when I was depressed, the sad songs kept me afloat. I have recently joined a band, I the singer and I really enjoy the joy it brings me to perform and feel the joy from my audience. I can listen to complexe piece of classical music all in my head and hear every note of every instrument, it's really embedded in me. Thank you for this talk, most interesting. :)

[@namret12]

Get well quickly, Gary❤ Fascinating about the whole music thing…Wow.

[@HOLLYWOODUNAPOLOGETIC]

"Early rock music..." DAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! This has been one of my favorite episodes. Gentlemen, thank you.

[@mdragon99]

Best episode ever!! First time I've followed along the whole way, don't understand it but I listened to it, ironically while practicing the piano...

[@OV1805]

I am a passionate linguist. The origins of language is my favorite topic. Special thank you from me for this podcast.

[@Micksmix256]

37:45 . As a 28 year old man who was diagnosed with MS this year I appreciate the conversation.

[@mistergoose6826]

I believe Neil and Chuck sat down and did a straight week of podcasts explaining every aspect of life, split it in parts and now release it for years

[@pkyt577]

We believe

[@Safetysealed]

As a metalhead who has medication resistant clinical depression, I've always struggled to explain to family and friends how and why loud angry music helps when I'm in a low state. Thankfully now I can point them to this video and they can learn from Dr Levitin who's a lot more educated and eloquent than I am.

[@WickedIndigo]

Metal is the ultimate catharsis. Im 100% on your side with this, it’s incredible how much some heavily distorted guitars, blast beat drums, and harsh vocals can soothe the mind. Now I’m super curious, what are some of your favorite metal bands?? Perhaps you’ll have some I haven’t heard and I’m always looking for new music🤘 wishing you the best my friend🙏

[@CheeseWyrm]

I would be extremely happy, & intellectually stimulated to converse with the immensely erudite & articulate Prof Levitin. It would be a privilege to be present in his lectures. The meeting of neuroscience, behavioural psychology, anthropology and music is a rewarding field to explore. This is one of the most stimulating episodes of Star Talk. Thanks guys, & get well Gary! :)

[@noved33]

This was by far the best episode, it really should've been longer.

[@saeedTHEgreat]

This was one of the best scientific conversations I've ever heard on this channel. Dr. Tyson please bring Daniel Levitin back to the show more often. thanks!

[@Valontuoja]

As a finn I like this episode. Our ancient history was not written - it was sung. As a runic song. Kalevala.

[@crystalquartez9773]

Very cool episode! On underwater sound; Every complex sound (basically anything that isnt a sine wave beep) has many frequency components, the one we recognize as the note is the fundamental pitch. Underwater you would loose some of the upper harmonic components of that complex sound, but the fundamental pitch would stay the same. Different mediums filter the sound.

[@travismumby1223]

Excellent, it's nice to have the conversation about memory retrieval being discussed and illustrates the impact of learning cursive after already learning print.

[@TheChuy777]

Top tier podcast here. Need him back again .

[@Desaved]

WOW! This explains so much in my life! I can't believe I almost didn't watch this! Music is also the key to healing me whenever I'm depressed.

[@SuzA8110]

"Connect-on" = every time I see a razor, for a split second, my finger hurts. (In 8th grade, I accidentally shaved my fingernail off.) I'm 60+ yrs old and it happens every time. Neil & Chuck & Daniel - Thank you so much for the enlightening & entertaining discussion. I learned a lot and enjoyed every minute!

[@DrKellieOwczarczak]

Wow! There at the end Daniel explained why I call music by the band Sirenia my "happy music". It always seems to make me feel better when I am at the lowest of my lows. The Path to Decay is so amazing any always helps me out of the deep.

[@KedgeDragon]

I recommended to my students that they study while listening to their favorite songs. A technique I used myself.

[@russellandrewbennett7849]

Chuck is the man. Can make a room full of people laugh, not take himself seriously, but genuinely know his stuff and ask fascinating questions. Tons of love for Chuck ❤

[@sadievirtue1636]

Whenever I'm feeling down, I listen to songs about feeling down and I always feel better afterwards . I never understood why until now. And I didn't understand why broken heart people listen to and sing the blues. Thanks Star Talk!

[@sanfordgfogg]

Great show as always. Something at the end of what your guest said about the correlation of music and depression has a current trending relationship. There is an Welsh musical artist by the name of Ren (Ren Gill) who went through years of misdiagnosed Lyme disease, which had severe health consequences. He has put his experiences, and the messages of hope into his music and now has a growing following, managing a number 1 UK album sales. Daniel Levitin's statement makes sense, as those who follow this artist, are enthusiastic about "being heard" and the compelling message of understanding. I recommend a listen to "Hi Ren" by Ren to hear for yourself this breakthrough communication.

[@doupnetwork]

@48:31 - "Study high, take the test high... get high scores" -Redman from the movie How High 😂

[@sil.lum.quan.]

I'm a musician and an armature physics buff but this has been the best StarTalk episodes.

[@freakshowlucifer616]

This is my perseption. Like other creatures, we had sounds to describe danger before we could name them. Although having a sound for an object or "thing" could be considare initation of lenguage. That comes when tribes agree and the sound of the symbology to describe our soroundings.

[@jking3402]

Always great...but this is one of the best interviews in years.

[@writerseye]

Wait, aren't the same parts of the brain used for both music and physical movement? It only stands to reason that those segments of our brains are more advanced than speech.

[@brookestephen]

Robins (turdus migratorius) have a language consisting of musical notes, where groups of notes make words, musical rests show where words begin and end, and the lexicon is specific to *mating*

[@madrooky1398]

Everything that was said about depression in the end is so true. It makes me actually even sometimes angry when I see happy people. And yeah "fun" music is infuriating. But I am also not into sad music, I like most calm, melodic and smooth music. But I don't listen too much when I am really down because I have the impression that I connect the mood to the music and when I hear it again i remember the bad feeling. Its absolutely fascinating but also very difficult to live with.

[@avmelidor]

I always preface these talks as illuminating. This kept me captivated

[@AlGaragui]

Agree 100%

[@d4rk0v3]

I want to know what's going on with my brain because I can listen to music in my brain at will. Not the way you're thinking. It isn't music *in my mind* it is music that I can hear, audibly, as if it were being played out loud on speakers, or more so like headphones. If I listen to a song enough to memorize it, I can replay it any time I want. I can dissect it, isolate different instruments, and change the tempo.

[@garretthawkinson]

For me it is like a multi-tracking system that i can even make new music with (i also forget it almost immediately)

[@CheeseWyrm]

@@garretthawkinson I suggest that this is a 'super power' for you folks. I envy your ability. We are *ALL* amazingly individually-talented minds :)

[@kaydeleshropshire724]

By chance do you have adhd? I do and I have this ability also. In fact music is my preferred love language. I always attributed my musical abilities and the way that I consume music to my adhd.

[@garretthawkinson]

@@kaydeleshropshire724 i actually do!

[@brianschoner3350]

Fascinating stuff as always. I'm reminded of the brilliant bass player Victor Lemonte Wooten; in a clinic I attended, he said (paraphrased), "There are people who believe that music is a language, but the more I play and learn, the more I think that's wrong. I believe that language is a music."

[@patrickbrown9256]

I would use particular songs when studying in college for different subjects then when taking the exams I could call up those songs if I couldn't directly listen to the songs with headphones and it worked really well.

[@brianfileman]

For each octave in the music scale, frequencies double. So A1 is 55Hz, A2 is 110Hz, A3 is 220Hz, A4 is 440 Hz, A5 is 880 Hz, A6 is 1760 Hz and so on. In mathematical terms, it is an exponential scale. The question then is, is this a function of the human brain, or would any being able to hear and process acoustic wavelenths, notice the same relationship?

[@theunaccompaniedsenior]

Bird and frog "songs" use tones in a similar fashion.

[@sinisamarovic]

Since math is woven into the very essence of the art form, I would say the former. Aside of basic counting and adding, I don't see any evidence of other animals doing math. Art, however, does occur in some species like elephants, chimpanzees, seals, parrots ...

[@aureaphilos]

Before my daughter was born, if she was fussing in utero, I could sing to her in my deep-toned voice, and she would quiet down. I always sang the same song, and it always worked. Unfortunately, once she had grown to be able to speak, and I sang that same song to her, she did not recognize the song. My conclusion -- as unscientific as it was -- was that those memories were reassigned or recycled; but she still loves music.

[@LizardandBuns]

Astrophysicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson looking confused as he says "isn't that the same thing?" is a reminder that we can be brilliant and still we can never know everything.

[@DC5Brandon]

This was only moment watching Star Talk, which I knew exactly what the expert was explaining, while Neil didn't

[@KedgeDragon]

I'm fixing a hole where the rain gets in And stops my mind from wandering Where it will go I'm filling the cracks that ran through the door And kept my mind from wandering Where it will go

[@VincentLimon]

As a performer of saxophone for 24 years now, what a fascinating topic! Looking forward to what you gents explore next, in the infinite cosmos. ❤🎷

[@marygreer4036]

Your final example of music and depression reminded me that during the latter parts of Covid isolation the world-wide phenomenon music group BTS came out with a song called “Blue and Gray” about their feelings of depression and loneliness during this time. I find it incredibly soothing. Their song “Spring Day” about sadness over the loss of a friend has become one of their most revered songs world-wide as well as being a modern classic in their home, Korea.

[@octavia307]

Whenever I hear Matchbox 20, I can SMELL the inside of my college car. And that was over 20 years ago! Our brains are so incredible 😊

[@the1jessebrown]

The story about grandma singing god bless America every day after being welcomed in as a refugee is absolutely beautiful

[@Amazon.Prince]

❤ I studied Linguistics in college and due to my poorly managed ADHD and OCD and life choices, I fell out of touch with my own intelligence and intellectual cursiosity. I miss that me who could be inspired and get things done and meet deadlines. 😢 ive been questioning my choice of studies and listening 5o Prof. Tyson for a long time now and kept thinking "scientists like him investigating the cosmos are so much more important..." then this comes up and i REMEMBER what i loved about lingusiitcs back in college... that it is a MYTHOLOGY and a PSYCHOLOGY and other parts of SCIENCE social or otherwise are still unique. I want to thank you for reminding me that my life choices were not wasteful. Love this epusode.

[@lyn2569akaLynette]

Music is audible math. Loved this episode. All 3 of you were informative and funny, thanks!

[@ObXession]

The universe is music 🎶🌀🎶

[@bkbland1626]

And music is more fun than language.

[@CheeseWyrm]

@@bkbland1626 Music *IS* the primordial genesis of human language

[@CheeseWyrm]

One simply needs to look at Galileo's seminal work on harmony, periods, pendulums, etc to gain insight into how *music* & *math* are interrelated

[@CheeseWyrm]

As Tolkien considered in his Middle-Earth works, namely Ainulindale (c.f. Silmarillion)

[@AlGaragui]

Indeed.

[@MC-br1gk]

This discussion is more of an ethical teaching than most religious text. Thank you guys for being such great role models.

[@belkyhernandez8281]

I am always impressed by Chuck. He has the hardest job imo. He has to make jokes at the right time that makes sense in the midst of complex conservations about things he knows nothing about. The other folks are talking about the things they are used to talking about in the manner they usually talk about it. Neil gets some comedy points too. He's funny for an astrophysicist.

[@JoshWeeks]

Lol I'm 30 minutes into this thinking this guy's name is so familiar. Then he drops that he wrote "This Is Your Brain on Music" which is literally one of my favorite books ever.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

as an artist and guitar player this comes as no surprise, noise clearly precedes speech and language, and art is found on the walls of caves, it would be interesting to see where art / music fits with other species, most animals seem to have some form of "song". for the sake of putting it out there, "lay lady lay" by bob dylan is one of a number of songs that takes me back to my teens hanging out at the bowling alley in southampton, i get an (almost) perfect recall of the _feeling_ of the pinball machines and the atmosphere, hard to describe but definitely a surround sound memory. also i've noticed that if i try to learn a new piece of guitar that i eventually decide is impossible, if i leave it and come back to it a month or two later i can sometimes find myself able to play it after all - like my brain has been processing it it subconsciously, i wonder if this is a common thing?

[@kurtzwar729]

The first musical instrument was the human voice. Then drums of all kinds. Big bird bones make great flutes, as they are hollow. Easy to drill a hole. The speech center and the melodic music centers of the brain are two separate regions. A WW2 Russian soldier who had his speech center blown away in the war could still hum all of the songs that he knew from childhood. No words. Just the song's melodies. 10 years later he redeveloped speech and added the words back to the songs. Playing music and singing have an additional brain benefit beyond just listening to music. I believe listening to live music also does this. A girl skipping makes the sound of a syncopated beat in music. Mel Tillis is famous for his singing, songwriting and stuttering when talking. A great American. Sad country songs outsell happy ones 10 to 1. They don't call it the Blues for nothing. Very well done. Much thanks all.

[@RicardoSenzo]

No joke, this is almost exactly the subject I was pondering just yesterday. The human brain's experience of sound, specifically the joy and pleasure of sound waves as vibrations. What is it about rhythmic vibrations at certain frequencies that are processed and constructed as powerful, emotion-inducing sensations in our bodies? Fascinating topic. Side note: Chuck was on-point in this conversation. Very funny guy.

[@snirest]

Pain is misunderstood. It should not be treated the way we do it. Pain is not the problem but it’s only an indicator of the underlying problem. I have experienced a lot with just watching pain as it rises and I find it very useful. I have learned a lot about the body this way.

[@alfredn.3812]

Watching from Uganda, East Africa. I like the explanations

[@JariDawnchild]

Happy birthday, Neil! ❤ This talk was so damn interesting, I wish I had the education to understand the vocabulary used in the papers on this subject matter, to comprehend what I'm reading correctly. I'd dive head-first into them and not surface until there was nothing more for me to read, probably end up sad that I'd read it all. Listening to this was a near spiritual experience, for lack of better words. I love doing art (even if I suck at it), music, and human psychology fascinates me. Tyvm for the last part about depression, I've been struggling to find the words to explain that to my family for decades. I think I'm going to add this to a playlist specifically for videos I like listening to more than once. So many ❤s to you all. ❤

[@theomcintosh]

I realized I had Daniels book on our brain on music when i was well into this interview. There was something very familiar going on. A must read, I just hadn't paid attention to the authors name while reading the book. Daniel Levitin; I'll remember

[@Bazelius]

I had a dream not long ago where i travelled to another planet, it was circling pretty close to their host star. It was inhabited by intelligent, multilateral black blobs moving around on a desert like snails just absorbing the energy from their star and communicated by altering magnetic fields like picking strings on a guitar. They had this hive-mind like process of communicating and thinking, which I found interesting because it was so different. They just told me "you have the internet, it's the same principle". It was a blast, wish most of my dreams would be half as interesting.

[@JariDawnchild]

That sounds so interesting. ❤

[@jeffs6090]

They just did a video stating math was the language of the universe. On that video, I made a comment about them saying an alien race would understand the sequence of prime numbers. I said that maybe math is universal, but the way we know it is still as a language of Earth. For them, each of the prime "numbers" could be different musical notes and chords at different frequencies. Therefore, if we sent out a signal tapping out the sequence, they wouldn't understand it at all.

[@TraciPearson-ok2tr]

Of all the *fantastic* videos you've produced, this has to be among the top two or three for me! Wow! I know it's not physics, but the topic is absolutely fascinating! Neurology *plus* music and then everything else that Levitin shared?! Just wow!

[@CheeseWyrm]

Aha! Yes, but when you say this topic is not about physics I gently guide you to look at some of Galileo's seminal work on harmonics, frequency, periods, pendulums, etc. The meeting ground of music & physics. AND then there's acoustics ...

[@mywifecallsmerick9080]

Loved this episode! I’m a keys player and I had a band mate with a terrible stutter, however never stuttered when he sang.

[@johnsmithy3147]

Watch the movie, Caveman, starring Ringo Star and Dennis Quaid. It's from the 70's and pretty dry from today's perspective but if you tough it out, you'll be richly rewarded P.S. It's actually from 1981

[@HarryNicNicholas]

28:00 i've been a graphic designer / animator and CGI artist for most of my career, and i say jokingly that i get paid to day dream, but it's true, in my job you need time to stare out of the window and just let your brain find it's way to solutions, rather than getting a calculator out and "work it out".

[@CheeseWyrm]

Yes! This discussion recalled for me the value of 'mind-wandering' in related concepts: 1. "A bored mind is a creative mind". It has been found that allowing (& appreciating the value thereof) phases of boredom allows the mind-wandering involved in creativity and problem-solving. Therefore, day-dreaming should not be off-handedly admonished, but rather diverted into productive pursuits; 2. Think of those times when you forget a word/name/concept that you were about to express ... "Oh, it's on the tip of my tongue! I just can't grasp it!". A common advice that often helps here is "Stop focussing on it, and it will come to you"; 3. *Ear-worms* Songs that you frustratingly can't get out of your head! (This is why advertising jingles are a thing). I have heard that you can resolve this by either replacing the song by listening & singing along to another song you like, *OR* singing the song to its completion (even just in your imagination). I'm not so sure these methods work often for me...

[@Learn2DriveNYC]

About 20 years ago I signed up to take an African dance class, but when I got there, i had a massive throbbing migraine from a toothache. I was going to cancel but decided to stay and see if i could tough it out. As I was changing my clothes, I could hear the drums reverberating through the halls of the school. The rhythm of the drums affected me in such a way that by the time I finished changing my clothes, the pain from my tooth had completely went away. I can't explain what happened but I knew it was the drums and on top of that the pain never returned.

[@Zulu_Drops_Dubs]

I may be biased as a musician but this was one of my top 5 favorite star talks.

[@larrpan]

My adopted Yolngu aboriginal family carries an aged-wine culture by which the knowledge of the land is handed down with a cultural baton of song, paintings, rhythms, and dances. They gift wrap wisdom via the arts because those candles of the heart don't die. Rhythm is off or on, just like binary code. Yolngu has rhythms directly connected to the umbilical chords of the land.

[@CheeseWyrm]

Very evocatively expressed, thanks! As a fellow Aussie, I wholeheartedly respect the depth of lore, tradition & history that music (& subsequently language) has allowed to develop and perpetuate over time.

[@larrpan]

@CheeseWyrm I miss my Yolngu fam. Been there 4 times, 4 planes each way from Austin Texas to Nhulunbuy.

[@CheeseWyrm]

@@larrpan You're with them in spirit brother/sister, and that's something! :) And I've got your back too mate :)

[@gustavometz]

Music therapy was my thesis in high school back in 1996. 28 years later my thesis passed from new age work to a precursor of Levitin findings.

[@travismumby1223]

TM discovering inner energy and overcoming stress, 1975 book does focus on meditation with music for health as does the Bava Gita. This study has been supported and their is hope for a re-inovation.

[@CheeseWyrm]

Do you mean the *Bhagavad Gita* , and Dosha Healing music?

[@travismumby1223]

Bagavahad, it was introduced to me in the short-term. However, healing music is healing music with personal forms for the definition of a successful treatment program.