Neil deGrasse Tyson Debates a Pluto Expert

Will Neil take back what he said about Pluto? Neil deGrasse Tyson and comedian Chuck Nice explore planets, dwarf planets, and the Kuiper belt with planetary scientist and principal investigator for the New Horizons Mission, Alan Stern.
Learn about the New Horizons mission to Pluto and the Kuiper Belt. How did the spacecraft get to Pluto so quickly? When is the optimal time to go to Pluto? Discover the Europa Clipper and Lucy Mission. We explore Jupiter’s Trojan Asteroids and the future of flyby missions.
What is the difference between a minor planet, dwarf planet, and planetoid? Find out about Theia, the protoplanet that crashed into early Earth. We discuss the origins of the term “dwarf planet” and planet classifications. What makes something in space become spherical? How did Pluto form? Are Pluto-type planets only formed at an extreme distance from the sun? Learn about the discovery of the Kuiper Belt and how Ceres formed in the asteroid belt.
What questions did New Horizons answer about the Kuiper Belt? We explore the dance between Pluto and its moon Charon, trans-Neptunian object Arrokoth, and why freezing gives off heat. Plus, why all the fuss about Pluto? All that, and a friendly nerd fight over planet classification and why terminology is important in planetary science.
Thanks to our Patrons laura, Mihajlo Jovanovic, Heather Smith, Juan Ignacio Galán, Artsaveslife, Frank Wagner, Adam Brown, Greg Albrecht, Mickey Fuson, and Jeremy Green for supporting us this week.
NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons can listen to this entire episode commercial-free.
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Science meets pop culture on StarTalk! Astrophysicist & Hayden Planetarium director Neil deGrasse Tyson, his comic co-hosts, guest celebrities & scientists discuss astronomy, physics, and everything else about life in the universe. Keep Looking Up!
#StarTalk #neildegrassetyson
00:00 - Introduction: Alan Stern
2:09 - New Horizons Mission to Pluto
6:43 - Alan’s Trip to Space
9:15 - New Flyby Missions: LUCY & Europa Clipper
14:45 - Minor Planets, Dwarf planets, and Planetoids
18:50 - How You Get Planets
23:00 - Could We Find a Pluto Closer to It’s Sun
25:38 - Discovery of the Kuiper Belt
27:15 - What We Learned from New Horizons
30:29 - Charon & Pluto’s Geological Activity
34:09 - Why All the Fuss with Pluto?

[@StarTalk]

Whose side are you taking? 🤔

[@Orpheonix]

The Dark side 🌑

[@EmpyreanLightASMR]

Neither. We need more definitions. That's what we do. Categorize stuff. :P

[@rtp_tony9665]

The Chuck side😂

[@R4iko]

I didn't understand why having more words to classify and help better define astral objects would receive a push back from someone who coined one himself. Dwarf planet was something Dr Alan thought of, and seemed proud of it. I agree with Dr. Tyson that more words are needed. Rock planets should have a different or official name that would make them instantly known that they are not like Jupiter or the other gaseous planet. I believe that more vocabulary are a necessary step to allow concepts to be expressed better and those concepts give birth to other ideas, invention or discoveries.

[@cogline]

I thought by definition it's not a planet

[@miguelmota5980]

I love it how scientists are not afraid to call each other wrong and not get offended by it. It's about knowledge and not about feelings and it's admirable. Also, have to commend Neil for his obvious teaching talent. I am sure most of us had teachers that just bomb drop terms they are familiar with but the students aren't, causing a rift in the learning process. Neil is very aware of this because of the audience. He is acting like a teacher for us and it shows his concern in teaching adequately. Also, Chuck for being the student in the room unafraid to ask the dumb questions. Great show. Thank you all.

[@TNM001]

problem is when a teacher is wrong but convincing...so you learn wrong things. seen it a few times in this conversation. teachers have to be especially careful what they say. avoid "hearsay", thats for small talk.

[@immko]

to me this "not afraid to call each other wrong" sounds like immaturity, why say "You wrong, me right", when it's more accurate to say "this is my opinion and I disagree with yours". it should be science and not opinions anyway so most likely both are wrong on the long run. I might be wrong what debate means, to me it's ideas fighting each other, but listening to debates seems like people are more concerned who is more charismatic in giving their point so they "fight" who should people believe, which is not scientific at all.

[@immko]

my earlier comment was generalization, after listening to this debate these gentlemen were clearly joking and had a good chat/debate.

[@miguelmota5980]

@@immko Yeah, sorry it was a matter of speaking. They were unafraid to challenge each others statements. They did not literally call each other wrong.

[@9FisterSpit9]

Political sciences beg to differ.

[@hrgwea]

There's some confusion in the comments. The controversy is not whether Pluto is a dwarf planet or not. The controversy is whether the word "planet" should be a disjoint set or a super set. As it's currently defined, "planet" and "dwarf planet" are disjoint sets, i.e. Pluto is a dwarf planet and not a planet. Similarly, the Earth is a planet and not a dwarf planet. However, some are in favor of the idea that "planet" should be a super set, i.e. Pluto being both a planet and a dwarf planet. And, therefore, the Earth is also a planet, but not a dwarf planet.

[@dannygjk]

According to the new rules Jupiter is also no longer a planet - eat that.

[@BookOnThrough]

Very well said @hrgwea, and a super important point. If our technology wasn't good enough to determine whether or not Pluto was a dwarf planet, it could be worth debating. These days, that question has been settled by observation, so debate is pointless. Given that the controversy is about our categories, it is in the purview of convention rather than of observation, and I think that is entirely worth debating.

[@DavidSmith-wp2zb]

you are 100% correct

[@light0000]

Could ypu give me the short story on that👀 really would love to defend pluto to people​@dannygjk

[@dannygjk]

@@light0000 A planet is supposed to have cleared its orbit. Jupiter has one or two posses in its orbit.

[@SonuOfBostonia]

Neil: "you're not a planet" Pluto: "And you're not Carl Sagan" 😡

[@turtleislandchief]

😂

[@samsmith2635]

No one can replace Carl Sagan, the OG

[@SheSweetLikSugarNSavage]

😂🤣 buuuurn🔥

[@Wis_Dom]

Seeing how Neil was greatly inspired by Carl Sagan and invited by Carl to meet him as a child, I doubt this was a burn.

[@surabaya5927]

He already is on Sheldon Cooper's immortal enemy list.

[@fraliexb]

11:00 I think Neal was referring to "Trojans" and "Greeks" Asteroids in the leading (L4) orbit are named after Greek heroes (the "Greek node or camp" or "Achilles group"), and those at the trailing (L5) orbit are named after the heroes of Troy (the "Trojan node or camp"). en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_trojan

[@crinolynneendymion8755]

Trojans were Greeks. Troy was a Greek colony,

[@DavidSmith-wp2zb]

Also the Hildas. If Neil was an astronomer and not an astrophysicists he would have known that. Im amazed Alan didn't know that! That's a basic astronomy 101 fact.

[@ptorq]

The exceptions to "L4 asteroids are named after Greeks, L5 asteroids are named after Trojans" are 624 Hektor, which is in the L4 point, and 617 Patroclus, which is in the L5 point.

[@Kamamura2]

@@crinolynneendymion8755 You are incorrect. Troy was a city in modern day Turkey which was settled about 3500BC, thus far predates the Greek city state era. The attackers are refered to as Greeks or Achaeans.

[@timtitus5002]

Right, Greek camp and Trojan camp. I've never heard them referred to as nodes. Same diffrence I guess.

[@MysticJhn]

Meanwhile Eris is out there going, "Hey, what about me? I circle the Sun as well, why does nobody care if I'm a dwarf planet or not?"

[@surabaya5927]

Hey, justice for Pluto first. Then we listen to what Erin has to moan about, that old whiner.

[@unholywarrior9007]

I think charon should be counted as a dwarf planet. It's dancing with dwarf planet pluto and the tiny moons orbit between the 2 not around them

[@hummakavula3750]

​@@unholywarrior9007Pluto is actually 2 dwarf planets in a trenchcoat

[@unholywarrior9007]

Our moon is much bigger then pluto. I think the problem is if we include pluto charon ect then we might have to add 200 spheres from the asteroid belt and the poor kids trying to memorize 217 planets in school

[@surabaya5927]

@@unholywarrior9007 But I never heard of a dog named Moon.

[@ednaash5330]

Oh my I loved Dr. Allen and Dr. Tyson debating! Please do a longer show with him.❤❤❤❤

[@vibehighest]

Pleaes have Alan Stern on again in a year to follow up on everything he has talked about today!

[@danspawn85]

According to Memory Alpha, the planetary classes used in Star Trek are as follows: Class D: Dead planets Class H: Hadean planets Class J: Gas giants Class K: Desert planets Class L: Marginal planets Class M: Terrestrial planets Class N: Glaciated planets Class P: Ocean planets Class R: Rogue planets Class T: Molten planets Class Y: Demon planets

[@ryancappo]

Do you know why they picked M for Terrestrial? And not E (earth-like), or T?

[@StumpkillerCP]

At least you relied on real science and technology there. Gene Rodenbery was a great screenwriter (heard him speak in person) but not really a scientist, cosmologist, exobiologist or . . . reliable for any of those classifications. Truly. Loved his TV work, though.

[@FacundoColombier]

​@@ryancappo and why Ocean are P instead of O? 😂

[@uscaremealotyt]

​@@ryancappo ask a Vulcan.

[@SaanMigwell]

@@ryancappo Yes, do you?

[@philarmstrong3765]

Eris is a tiny bit smaller that Pluto in diameter (about 50 k) but has 27% more mass. And nobody seems to care one whit that it's regarded as a dwarf planet.

[@fedoralexandersteeman6672]

They should all be regarded as planets including moons.

[@jonathanhendrix2925]

​@@fedoralexandersteeman6672 they're planetoids but the distinction matters

[@BartJBols]

ploto is the poster child, but most people who say pluto needs to be a planet have no objection to the other plutoids being planets. In fact find me the person that believes 'only' pluto should be the extra planet.

[@Dominic_Berry]

Yes we do. Twenty years ago there was all this excitement about discovering new planets, and people were nicknaming it Xena. Also, it is not that they are called dwarf planets, it is that dwarf planets are classified as not planets, even though they have "planet" right in the name. That's mad.

[@Ben-Ken]

People are putting too much emotion into science. There's nothing wrong with making a distinction between planets and dwarf planets for the sake of being more specific. Especially when there might be dozens or hundreds of similar bodies in a solar system.

[@lamajsmoovesartisticmultiv2355]

The battle we have all been waiting for

[@JosephBlack]

who cares about KZbin boxing, and disstracks! This is where it's at!

[@alexanderboonvonochssee92]

Alan Stern behaves like he's from Pluto.

[@redredred1]

Yes. The average Plutonian is an obnoxious guy with an 82 IQ.

[@SteveSchweichler]

So does Tyson to be fair. Who are we to say if Pluto sometimes feels like it's a planet and other days it might feel like just a lump of rock circumventing the sun!?!? Who are we to say right Tyson? You say men in women's bathrooms, Pluto says tomato.....

[@redredred1]

@@SteveSchweichler If Pluto identifies as a trans-planet, but not a planet, Tyson would be like, ".... ugh.... but trans-planets ARE PLANETS!"

[@MeALG.]

😅😂

[@bobtaylor7197]

No that's Zuckerberg 😂

[@jakemoeller7850]

Alan Stern was the keynote speaker in 2015 at Festival of Science here in Flagstaff. He was jubilant because of the New Horizon mission. It is an event that I will cherish until death.

[@FalconFXICCY]

Thoroughly enjoyed listening to Dr. Stern talk about the outer solar system, and his banter with Neil on what constitutes main and dwarf planets.

[@criz6825]

You NEED Alan back. The chemistry between Neil and Alan is priceless. One of a kind!

[@tayyabnaseer1]

hello its always nice to listen your lectures on different topics . Sir it would be good if you also add subtitles as well

[@FatherOshai]

I was scared they wouldn't have Chuck on but I'm so happy he's here , Hey! Lord Nice ✨️🙏🏾... sending love from Africa [ RSA ] ❤🇿🇦

[@ghostwolfx]

I agree with Alan Stern on the planet definition debate. Jupiter, Earth and Pluto are all Planets in the same sense that Blue Whales, Humans, and Ants are all Animals. Neil wants the term Planet to be a much more specific defining word than, but I think it is (and has been) a broader word like the word Animal is, at least IMO. I think the term Planet being used for Jupiter and Pluto is appropriate, and further defining from there with terms like Giant or Dwarf is also appropriate if you want to know exactly what someone is talking about as Neil said, like calling an Ant an Insect and a Human an Ape. I do wanna say I respect Neil for agreeing with Alan instead of just doubling down forever like so many other people would do. It shows Neil is more interested in the truth than "being right" all the time, and that's the mark of someone you can trust is following their head and not their emotions.

[@Jellyman1129]

Indeed, “planet” is a broad term with many different subcategories. Neil is starting to become more likable over time. He used to be vigorously dogmatic about the Pluto debate (like Mike Brown), but now he’s more rational and agrees with Alan Stern in multiple ways.

[@macavitythemysterycat]

Under Neil's definition, there are only 4 planets in the solar system, and it doesn't make sense to limit our teaching on planets to just Mercury, Venus Earth and Mars.

[@weplaydk2343]

​@@Jellyman1129glad to see Neil is managing to win ppl over. I was shocked to find so many people disliked him, esp after his rogan appearance. Folks found him to be a arrogant know it all, i never seen him that way though.

[@Jellyman1129]

@@weplaydk2343 I’m glad too. He’s a really good science communicator and Star Talk is a great show.

[@gjatt7410]

That handshake shows how huge Tysons hands are. No wonder he was a great wrestler back in the day.

[@clinch4402]

He was a boxer you fool. He held the heavyweight belt at one point.

[@moritzwieding3181]

loved everything about this entire episode! The combination of 2 planetary scientists debating and chuck lightening up the tone of the debate every now and then! Such an enrichement of my week and so great that you manage to release any kind of content every few days!!

[@padrescott2047]

We found the best version of Jerry.

[@Grux-Grux]

Jelly Hoshiumi?

[@johnpacino4491]

"PLUTO IS A M-ER F-IN PLANET... B-CH!" 😂

[@johnny10grasp3]

​@@Grux-GruxJerry from Rick and Morty. It's funny because I was thinking about that episode when I read this comment.

[@atomdent]

I think king flippy nips is on the edge of his seat!

[@vaibhavearthone8546]

Jerry Seinfeld?

[@dennisquinn7729]

I am happy to see at 1 hour there are already 12,000+ views! In a world that sometimes seems to be awash in conspiracy theories and PhD.s in Google, it is great to see that so many still live in the world of provable science....

[@mentlinc]

The Science world definitely needed a man like NDT to spark young Americas interest. Sadly we need entertainment and charisma to spark it but I'll take it!

[@rickkwitkoski1976]

@dennisquinn7729 When there are 100 K views in the first hour, that will be the metric that says the conspiracy BS is losing.

[@Maria-ni4rc]

Pluto is the 9th planet in our solar system... Whether we agree or disagree on a topic, let us be respectful to one another's thought or belief. As the old saying goes, 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder'; and Pluto's constant presence and mystique still captivates, as do the other eight planets in our solar system. Heavenly bodies, like species, are unique individuals. Discoveries are worth preserving, whether factual, borderline or hypothetical...

[@CaymenCider]

Give it up partner. You lost many years ago.

[@julianthegodmusic]

I mean you ain’t lying. It’s just a dwarf planet and we don’t really count those in our particular solar system. Or others. They make the distinction between planet and dwarf planet. And there’s criteria for categorization. Makes them two different things fr. As I understand it.

[@cspahn3221]

You lost so long ago and you can't let it go. That's all this yapping is.

[@AstroQuest1]

This was one of the best conversations I have watched! Not because of the 'whether Pluto is a planet or Dwarf planet', but just the overall information about history of the space programs that were discussed. Cheers

[@DVine13]

What I love about this conversation is both of these men who are experts in their field and have similar education with the same sources have different interpretations of these sources and can express them while respecting each other’s perspectives, opinions, and interpretations.

[@bigwill123ism]

Love the debate at the end lol great episode

[@georgekinyua355]

I totally agree with Neil. There should be new nomenclature for planets. For instance Jupiter, as a gaseous planet with about a dozen moons should not just be compared to earth or any other Rocky planet on the basic level. Another significant term(s) should be added to highlight such disparities.

[@tee4222]

I completely disagree. I think Neil got absolutely silenced by the adjective debate. We can easily differentiate between different types of planets using adjectives. “Planet” is a broad category. Like “galaxy”, “star”, “human”, “house”, we don’t need to rename the category when we have perfectly effective methods of describing them in further detail by use of language. This is a pretty basic function of the English language.. We use adjectives and descriptors to expand on broader categories of nouns.

[@TheOJDrinker]

I think we already have it to a degree... Jupiter is a "Gas Giant".... yet we know a gas giant is a type of planet without it having to contain the word planet. Perhaps we could use a word or two that describes a dwarf planet or even a rocky planet without having to say planet. Meanwhile, we'll just have to specify what kind of planet.

[@TheGenXInnovator]

​@tee4222 100% correct. I can't believe NDT got caught so easily with this. I love the explanation/definition of a planet. Spot on. Fused together by gravity of enough size to be determined to be spherical, regardless of the variety of materials the planet could be, and are, made from...

[@davidgatzen1543]

OK, here's a significant term: It's a "Big Planet".

[@DanielMWJ]

We got gas giants, ice giants, terrestrial planets. Large planet and Giant planet could suffice for size.

[@anthonysaunders345]

I'm writing a book on the history of architecture and one of the most difficult things is categorization. From the broadest categories to the smallest subcategories, it can be brutal deciding what goes where, expecially when there are valid competing arguments for something going in multiple categories. The human brain learns and memorizes in large part by the very act of categorization. When it comes to planets, I think that first its necessary to categorize regardless of the categorization's imperfections, and second, to understand that many planets don't fit neatly into any one category and recognize and appreciate the nuances for why this is so.

[@crinolynneendymion8755]

An interesting topic in and of itself. The error I think is in the assumption that one set of categorizing rules can be applied ... categorically. Sorry, couldn't resist.

[@terrizittritsch745]

What a wonderful episode. Alan is such an interesting guy and national gem and have heard him speak at NEAF about New Horizons. My favorite episode so far. And I agree with Alan, Pluto should have been left as a planet and we could have added more.

[@3Brandon11]

We can't just have hundreds of planets. We need to classify them. Leave the planets alone that behave like the main eight. The rest can all be dwarfs.

[@johnheath4305]

Is step planet allowed? She raised me under the theory she was my real planet.

[@Oldschool811]

Dumb dad joke or just a dumb human?

[@jeremybeckett6]

Yeah haha!

[@dmac7128]

Neil brings up a good point about language. It should be more precise when describing a particular planet. Star Trek is a good example of how a classification system could be applied to the different types of planets encountered by using standard criteria. For example, a planet made of solid rock with water and land surface with a oxygen nitrogen atmosphere is termed a class M planet. Perhaps other types could denote gas giants like Jupiter and Saturn, ice giants like Neptune and Uranus, rocky planets with no atmosphere like Mercury or a trace one like Mars? We have had a comprehensive system for classifying stars for a century, why not other celestial objects?

[@RenegadeVile]

I think it's mostly just a matter of syntactic sugar. While combining adjectives and the noun together into a single word can be useful, it can also lead to a giant mess of specific terminology that a lot of people won't understand anymore. I guess it's a balancing act.

[@passerby167]

@@RenegadeVileso true.

[@rawrrrz]

Awh.. I'd say the title was a bit misleading. I was really hoping for a debate, which they only barelyyyy did a little bit of at the end. That line about Neil being wrong, I was like WOOOOO! SHOTS FIRED! haha. I really thought that was about to be the beginning of them going back and forth for an hour or so debating points to support their views.. That short bit aside, it was mostly just another great grab bag episode of Patreon questions, just with a Pluto theme.. So yes, please, have him back and please allow a bit more time for them to actually debate a bit more. While Patreon questions are great, I'd love to just have two smart guys, one believing Pluto is a planet and the other saying it is not, each debating and discussing their reasons for why they believe it is or isn't, and by the end, I want Chuck to be able to judge who won the debate, so hopefully we can finally settle the matter of whether Pluto is a planet or not. At the very least, I'm damn sure I'd learn something from listening to such a conversation. :D

[@theghettogourmet6762]

I did a black light diorama of the Thea collision for my 5th grade science project. It was a card board box with a black light attached and what had once been a bunch of foam balls inside painted with fluorescent spray paint, busted up and arranged to look like said event as best I could manage and a write up outside explaining the event. Won 1st prize.

[@linkbond08]

33:30 As blueberry farmer and I can confirm, the freezing water from the overhead frost protection gives off enough heat to maintain the bushes from freezing, even at mid 20sºF air temp. 39:42 Spanish kinda got a way to get around that problem of needing adjectives by using -tote & -tito. Planetote = big planet Planeta = normal planet Planetito = little planet You still have to think of a way to interject a differentiator between a gas planet, rocky planet, and liquid planet.

[@redfernpixelgnomepitcher1377]

Planetonio = Italian Planet. Planetius = Legionaire Planet Planetenor = Opera planet. Planetist = Idealogically captured planet Planetto = Ice Cream Planet

[@redfernpixelgnomepitcher1377]

Planetoon = Gas planet Planetallica = Rocky Planet Planetohol = Liquid planet.

[@linkbond08]

@@redfernpixelgnomepitcher1377 bruh 😂 Now I want icecream.

[@jsliszt]

This naming scheme still just calls all of them "Planet," where they are are different in form, size and nature. Gas planet, smol planet, large planet are still a planet. But ice cream ball is not a planet. Minor planets, like stars, are different in "form" and/or "nature."

[@octavian771]

Not only blueberries, all trees can be protected by ice in freezing temperatures. If we expect negative temperatures (that is below 0 degrees celsius) we sprinkle trees with water and the ice formed protects the buds.

[@xaviersxmen1735]

How is a dwarf "planet" not a planet? I mean its even in its name. I mean it might not be as big but why not still be one of the nine planets if they are still gonna call it a planet but a dwarf planet?

[@Jwkartz2]

Because then there would be dozens more planets. A dwarf planet is a subsection of planets, but the solar system has 8 regular planets.

[@Frie_Jemi]

From the first day when someone tried saying Pluto wasn't a planet...I would ask , "a blue car, a compact car, a race car, & a flying car. Can you tell me which one is NOT a car?". the answer was always, "they're all cars ". Just because you put the word proto or dwarf in front of it DOES NOT mean it's not a planet.

[@langben9000]

What a good episode. Love the chemistry and vibe, and the subject matter was very exciting

[@sageofsixpathskakashi3742]

Free my boy Pluto, he ain't do nothing wrong.

[@raduen2]

These videos brighten up my day and put a smile on my face. Thank

[@GwahirW]

The ending of this episode was amazing.

[@MichaelTavel]

I think in the analogy around the types of planets being like different tyoes of people doesn't really work. I think the different types of planets are more like different kinds of mammals or animals in general. Sure, there are some commonalities, but there can be more differences (and important ones at that) than similarities in many cases.

[@passerby167]

Agreed. Tell a cop a human stole from you and there will be follow up questions. Why assume telling an ET there’s a planet orbiting a star wouldn’t yield different results?

[@TheGiggleMasterP]

No views? I demand better for Lord Nice.

[@MarkLLawrence]

The views are incoming 📨

[@sydosys]

prime lord nice woulda had 1 quadrillion views by now 😮‍💨

[@sharihofmann674]

I can't remember the last time I heard a good Capulette and Montague one-liner. Thanks Chuck!

[@tricksterdaclair]

I really loved this episode ! Good job guys keep on doing such an incredible job !

[@marsspacex6065]

They are called Trojan asteroids but there is a Greek camp and Trojan camp at each of the Lagrange points. They are named on this convention except for each camp has a spy which is named the different side.

[@stuartculshaw5342]

Yes. I thought, It had to be Greek surely?

[@frogz]

i already know this episode is going to be spicy before i even watch it, neil's absolute HATE and distaste for pluto is palpable, pluto should be grandfathered in!!!

[@blackbird163]

💯!!!

[@SteinSays]

Why.....? 🤔

[@frogz]

i bought a set of glow in the dark planets+pluto, IT HAD TO SPECIFY PLUS PLUTO just to include it... that made me sad, pluto should be given historical planet status for it's age and gas giant and dwarf should only be PREFIXES unless they want to remove jupiter and saturn from the list of planets!

[@Bwondema]

Great discussion. Dr. Allen needs to come again more often his expertise ranges from theoretical physics to engineering etc. He has a lot to share.

[@rajanthathomas6009]

this was a "fight" i was waiting to see ❤ damn the knowledge of these guys !!! and I had goosebumps when Alan was explaining how we were going to go around the trojans of jupiter, the way we were going to change orbits and all ❤

[@coffeeguyd]

I'll always be in favor of Pluto as a planet, as I had an awesome science teacher who was related to the man who discovered it. Shoutout to Mr. Tombaugh!

[@Southghost5997]

It is a planet. no one ever said otherwise.

[@michaeltharrington8858]

I'm faux outraged too! 😠

[@RenegadeVile]

@@Southghost5997 No, with the change in the scientific meaning of the word "planet", dwarf planets no longer fit that definition and are thus excluded. So right now, dwarf planets are not a type of planet, they are their own thing.

[@Southghost5997]

@@RenegadeVile I did not know that, thank you random Renegade!

[@unholywarrior9007]

Charon should be counted as a dwarf planet

[@elliottgussow9555]

From Wikipedis: These have long been named for figures from the Trojan War of Greek mythology. By convention, the asteroids orbiting near the L4 point of Jupiter are named for the characters from the Greek side of the war, whereas those orbiting near the L5 of Jupiter are from the Trojan side.

[@johncronin9540]

One historical or literary (Homer’s “Iliad” and “Odyssey” and Virgil’s “Aeneid”) point. It was the Greeks, not the Trojans (whose city, Troy, was located in what is modern Turkey, along the Aegean Sea), who built the horse packed with soldiers and then left it as a “gift” for the people of Troy. Hence the phrase, “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.” So it was the Greeks, not the Trojans, who were being clever, or sneaky, depending on which side one is rooting for. On the Trojans part, it was foolhardy of them to bring the “Trojan horse” inside the city walls (if that ever really happened).

[@oreo5850]

a better take on adding words is reapplying the prefix/suffix system and only adding base terms(potentially based in science) [reapplying] for lack of a better word

[@4dojo]

I had hoped for more debating, but still an interesting video.

[@oldschoolman1444]

I thought Pluto being a planet was only important to people that believe in astrology?! 😊

[@rjsmith6698]

I can see Neil’s point about having additional words to describe different types of planets, just as we have words to describe different types of trees, or fish. We can refer to a maple or an oak without adding the word tree, just as the words shark or groper don’t require the word fish to accompany them. But I think the problem, at least for now, is perhaps that we don’t have enough planet types to justify it.

[@Straightprimo]

Pluto debate was the first meaningful debate in my lol. I remember being so salty that I was wrong when it changed from being a planet. Love the show guys.

[@brandonhunter3036]

Chuck we need you to do your job and ref these nerds!

[@arghsonofcliff]

I think Niel was saying don't just call it a planet use adj. Like stars are blue, white, yellow and red, just more info

[@Grunttamer]

That’s literally the opposite of what he was saying. When clarifying Neil said that Jupiter and earth should not be classified as the same type of object and that it’s a shortcoming of the lexicon. He wants categories with proper nouns not noun + adjective.

[@arghsonofcliff]

@@Grunttamer that's where adj come in, more information. Information is the whole point of science.

[@Grunttamer]

@@arghsonofcliff I agree, Neil doesn’t

[@jbx1967]

One of the best episodes I've seen. Very informative and entertaining.

[@michaelc3977]

The guy is a clown with zero respect among the community.

[@jbx1967]

@michaelc3977 Yeah. Sounds like nobody in the scientific community respects him at all...a regular Rodney Dangerfield of planetary science and study. 😂

[@HGALAXIES]

One of those sessions in which Mr. Tyson gets corrected very accurately on top of science. Not only super educational - as ALWAYS - but sheds more light on a very important, if not super critical and essential, point: psychology of true scientists! They have NO PROBLEM AT ALL to discuss matters and update themselves and get corrected!!! That's how we learn, improve, and grow! Otherwise, we just age! (That has its own categorization: 0 down to "-Infinity").

[@mp-kq3vc]

I had to turn my audio up to almost max to hear. Ouch when the commercials came in.

[@bartsherman7716]

Not everybody’s favorite planet… I’m partial to earth

[@francisseidel8014]

You should have Queen guitarist, Sir Dr. Brian May on sometime to talk about the work with NASA. That would be a very dynamic discussion.

[@dfresh834]

Oh, this is the debate we've all been waiting for!

[@megallica22]

10:00 Is "Lucy" an acronym? No, it's a pretty name.... 😂😂😂 Dying over here!

[@jalenjalenjalenj]

I read this at the EXACT time it started playing in the video 🫨😧🫨😧🫨

[@zr1129]

Pluto is smaller than Earth's moon.

[@ALIPIANIST]

Size does NOT matter!

[@billcook4768]

And mercury is smaller than Ganymede.

[@GlonthinWombo]

I love Neil's and Chucks banter soo much 😊❤

[@ChristopherFreezeYT]

12:06 - NdGT is partly correct; the trailing group is named "Trojans," as the leading group is called "Achilles," - but most folks lump them all as Trojans.

[@kalijasin]

Back in my day we had nine planets.

[@cspahn3221]

and?

[@eagleotto2527]

Now we know we have more, cause we have better technology

[@yowzephyr]

"Yeah? Well back in my day we had eight planets." -- Teddy Roosevelt

[@hoefty232]

I very much agree with Dr. Tyson about designating new vocabulary for "types of planets"

[@sutton0028]

Dear Mr. Tyson, I have one question, I hope it is a good one. Ok, so because our earth is rotating and it is spherical, thus it is normal to think that the rotational movement of earth at the equator vs at the pole is different, in terms of speed and perhaps direction. Would people get motion sickness moving to different places because of this?

[@mrfriendly9956]

This was fun guys, thank you. I look fowarrd to more!

[@platinumpineapple9943]

Pluto is a planet in my book!

[@ShawnRitch]

I agree :)

[@hoefty232]

Dr. Tyson, where can I get that shirt!?

[@1974rednaxela]

Thank you so much. Always a great show, very entertaining and educational. Alan was a fantastic guest with a lot of wisdom

[@hoefty232]

Have we determined that Pluto formed with the solar system? It was said that Pluto started further in and migrated outwards, but how does that explain that Pluto orbits on a different plane?

[@jryan7932]

Please do bring Alan back!

[@user-vz5fb6bx7s]

The treatment received by Pluto has always been upsetting to me. How great that some of you feel the same!

[@red_wullf]

Of course, Pluto doesn’t care.

[@jsliszt]

Hey! Of course, Pluto was the name of a Disney character that we all loved. We don't need a minor celestial body named in honor of a corporation like that, let us lay it to rest.

[@red_wullf]

@@jsliszt Jupiter Corporation, the Japanese video game developer, isn’t going to like where this is going…

[@jsliszt]

@@red_wullf Truth. Thinking about the conundrum of which came first in life, with Jupiter and Pluto, and the corps involved,

[@user-vz5fb6bx7s]

@@red_wullf S0 true.

[@ydenneki]

The reason they had to classify Pluto as a dwarf planet is if they left Pluto as a planet there were TWO OTHERS they would ALSO have to classify ... ERIS and CERES. ERIS is even LARGER than Pluto, with a much more eccentric orbit, and CERES is a dwarf planet INSIDE the asteroid belt. 11:02 Jupiter WOULD be able to clear the Fore and Aft Trojan asteroids IF they weren't in the two perfect places where Jupiter's gravity is cancelled out ... the L4 and L5 Lagrange points, 60 degrees ahead and behind Jupiter.

[@slydesplaylists]

Like it must be somewhere in the Planum Temporale of planets but then if the Oort is spherical enough compared to possible Arcturian standards to be considered a filament cloud ,this seems appropriate.

[@eddieandrews2922]

It's just my old ear buds guys the audio is fine. 😂😂😂😂

[@UzairW]

As much as I love Dr Tyson, for me Pluto will always be the ninth planet!

[@richarddefortune1329]

😂 people really hated him for that.

[@Broockle]

What about Makemake, Eris, Haumea, Ceres, and the dozens or hundreds more we are prbly gonna find in the future? There's no rule you can make to include Pluto and not all these others.

[@ols7462]

Not just for you! IT IS A PLANET! Saying Pluto is not a planet = Saying dwarf people are not human.

[@Benson_aka_devils_advocate_88]

​@@BroockleWhat's wrong with having many planets? Jupiter has many, many moons. So why must of solar system have a small number of planets despite the facts it has many, many objects going around it? Just food for thought.

[@wb3904]

And Ceres the 10th? The problem is at what point is it a planet and at what point an asteroid. Dr. Tyson did his best effort to help classify. Pluto just didn't meet the standards.

[@JessicaLynch-pb2lv]

I found this video very interesting. I would love to have Alan Stern back on so I can learn more about Pluto. I am on Alan Sterns side. I think if an oject is spherical and orbits a sun, it is a planet.

[@DougP78]

I wish this episode could have gone on for another hour or two. ❤

[@-_Nuke_-]

39:36 I agree with Niel *100%*

[@Elo-hv3fw]

Neil. ......100 %

[@trevorsklar]

Not at all! I’m with Allen! Adjectives exist, it’s fine to just use them!

[@nibeshsharma]

Dr.Tyson I believe the purpose of making science understandable and keeping it simpler for the masses and youngsters, like your Channel tries to do would be defeated if different 'forms' of planets were to be assigned a whole new bunch of unnecessary words...🤓 Adjectives like Dr.Stern said seem to do the job well for those who would like to dig deeper after hearing 'You know Jupiter is a planet like Earth is?' 🙂 For example: I learned today the calf muscle in scientific terms has the word 'gastro' in it, which made me flabbergasted😳. From this example I'm trying to imply, the language we use is already complicated and logically inconsistent beating the purpose of what it was designed to, which is 'communication with efficiency'.😮‍💨 Adding a bunch of vocabulary will only make things more complicated than simply using what we already have, of course unless there's an explicitly unique discovery of something needing a name, in which case that too needs to be named logically, rather than making up a word whilst riding an emotional wave(wich by the way I think happened with 'Gastrocnemius'😒 'Belly of calf'...

[@maryhuckaby2239]

Fab interview! Alan Stern, hero!

[@MaverickBlue42]

Last time I checked, the title Dwarf Planet still includes the world planet, so that just makes it a smaller class of plants. 'Nuff said, end of debate. We have Rocky Planets, Gas Giant Planets, Ice Giant Planets, and Dwarf planets. Nobody is arguing that Jupiter isn't a planet just because it's in the Gas Giant sub-category.....

[@TuxedoMaskMusic]

You just called someone a nobody. I like that about you. lol

[@thehalfricanguy]

Yes-and-no. Technically speaking, you are correct that dwarf planet includes the word planet. That's not the argument here.

[@mqegg]

didnt they revise the name to plutoids?

[@mikotagayuna8494]

If only it were that simple. The International Astronomical Union's definition of "dwarf planet" is different from the colloquial term "dwarf planet" as used in the English language the same way the word "theory" means a lot differently when used in science than it is in everyday use.

[@commodorezero]

IAU has explicitly turned down that compromise and said no.

[@jerroldhancock2443]

Great pod cast. No audio

[@Zierk11001]

Fix your sound

[@RBCjr1]

Near the end they talk about the word planet. 'Planetoid' being one alternative descriptive term and there are always alterations to jargon or terminology already in place and still in use, it changes as Neil said became apparent to him, with watching descriptions of words vary and morph from one generation to the next. After examining 5 or 6 decades of dictionaries, he understands the need for contiguous terminology that transmits information efficiently which is something that is lacking in more than one area.

[@RBCjr1]

How about megatoid orbatoid heliosphere I could devote the whole day to thinking about this but the sun is shining and I need to make hay.

[@AreGulbrandsen]

Alan Stern is correct here. By Neil's argument we shoudn't use the word "star" for all different types of stars. But you guys still call this "Star Talk". - Great show either way.

[@Jellyman1129]

My thoughts exactly. Having lots of stars doesn’t make the word “star” any less useful. The same logic applies to the word “planet”. If more subcategories are needed, we can always create more.

[@SwipedOcean]

Is it just me, or does Alan Stern look angry a lot of time, especially at the beginning 🤔

[@clkb8moto]

He was trying to talk and did not appreciate the interruptions and comic relief. He's on the wrong channel.

[@SwipedOcean]

@@clkb8moto He had that look as though he was taking it as a personal insult. Should have just let him go to Pluto with the satellite 🤷‍♂️

[@lex.79]

You might even say he looked a little stern.

[@clkb8moto]

@@lex.79 I see what you did there!

[@manowar4046]

Any object in space that can hold its own atmosphere and have enough gravity to hold on to a moon is a planet. I don't care what anyone else thinks or says facts are facts.

[@quantumbanana]

rip mercury with no atmosphere or moons.

[@manowar4046]

@@quantumbanana It does have an atmosphere although thin it's still there.

[@quantumbanana]

@@manowar4046 it has surface bounded exosphere, literally anything and everything has that. An exopshere is so sparse it isn't collisional - atoms literally don't collide with eachother. Comets have thicker atmospheres. Also several asteroids have moons, elektra has 3 of them.

[@manowar4046]

@@quantumbanana Google it.

[@red_wullf]

“Facts” 😂

[@CptDimitrisT]

One of the best, great information sharing, great guest!

[@bikebudha01]

My take on what should define a planet: Any body that has enough mass to generate enough gravity to pull itself into a sphere. Then it's just a matter of having a 'scale system' to describe planets (mirco, small, normal, larger, giant, etc...). And of course, a planet revolving around another planet would be a moon...

[@mz-pd5hw]

everyone agrees that Pluto IS a planet, the scientific community called it a "Dwarf-planet", that's a planet, that's how language works, you could have called it a planetoid, a quasi-planet, an almost-but-not-quite-a-planet; but nooo, you had to call it an *adjective*-PLANET, that is a type of planet; just like a little-chair is still a chair and a red-pen is still a pen. So one side think Pluto should had stay a planet and the other classified it as a specific kind of planet; both sides agree that it IS a planet. Or we have to agree that the scientific community have no clue on how, in a very basic level, language works...

[@Mathuews1]

Sounds like you struggle with language too so next time have someone proof read your work

[@davidt3956]

Notice the astrologers who claim dwarf planets aren't planets don't argue that dwarf stars aren't stars.

[@stax6092]

Yes.

[@DANGJOS]

Astrologers?

[@doupnetwork]

Of course they're stars... dwarf stars 😂

[@TinyGiraffes]

Notice how nuclear fusion is a pretty obvious line in the sand.

[@jeffs6090]

Dwarf stars aren't stars, otherwise they'd be called stars. They are however a type of star, one that has "failed" or did not get enough material to ignite. Ergo, dwarf star. Same with dwarf planet. They are a type of planet, but do not cover all the criteria of being a full fledged planet.

[@workingguy6666]

I have to agree with Tyson on the experts needing different descriptors for types of orbiting bodies. 38:15

[@simonagree4070]

On Star Trek (and TBBT) we have Vasquez Rocks planets. 😄

[@XxTheAwokenOnexX]

Pluto will always be a planet in our solar system.

[@Mr_Spock512]

Nope ... WRONG!